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101090 discussions

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Just to put things into perspective, a week's groceries, these days, for a >> family of four, cost about $150, a decent mid-priced car costs $15000, and a >> farily well equipped and appropriately designated personal computer with a >> 400MHz pentium, 8GB HDD, 64MB of RAM, OS installed, all the multimedia >> features, plus a current-generation modem (V.90) costs $400 less the monitor >> with monitors costing $139 for a 15" and $300 for a 20" type. These prices >> are from Best-Buy's ad in last Sunday's paper. You can probably do better >> if you shop. >These prices are also based on technology that has had 50 years to mature, >and therefore the comparison is entirely invalid. "If the automobile had followed the same price-performance changes as the computer industry in the past 50 years, a Rolls Royce would today cost $4.95, get two million miles to the gallon, go 50000 MPH, and explode once a day, killing everyone inside." -- Robert X. Cringley -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the 80s

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 11:31 PM 4/21/99 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >That's Doug Salot's (Yowza) creation. What about his assertion don't you >agree with? I think he's right on the mark. I became mightly confused when I searched my bookmarks for "classic computer" and found <http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/faq.txt>, which was 404, so I trimmed off "faq.txt" and tried again, which 404'd, and then thought <http://www.yowza.com/> must be some kind of parody that Doug assembled, but now I'm not sure. Did he sell the domain? - John

26 years, 1 month

HP Apollo questions

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I was scrounging today and found a nice looking HP Apollo 400 in a surplus place. The owner didn't know anything about it but I dug around a bit more and found a monitor, mouse and keyboard that worked with it. Connected everything together and fired it up. It booted up with no problems but no one knows the pass word. Does anyone know how to bypass that? It's a model A2536A with a HP model A1097C monitor and HP/Apollo model A1630 keyboard. Can anyone tell me more about these? I know nothing about the Apollo computers. Any idea how usefull this thing is or what it's worth? Joe

26 years, 1 month

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s

by edick＠idcomm.com

One aspect of this matter I'm already seeing ignored is the COST. That so-called FIRST personal computer which cost $300 in the early '50's, for example, cost quite a lot of money. In the '50's, it was unusual for anyone to earn $100 a week. A mid-priced Chevrolet cost less than $2000 and $10 a week was plenty for a week's groceries for a family of 4. Not even DEC's so-called personal computers were competitive enough to interest an industry professional. The DEC mini's weren't even a good buy as they became obsolete. I doubt DEC equipment was EVER used where there wasn't a third party present who profited from its use. That doesn't mean they weren't appropriate and suitable for a wide range of uses, but it certainly doesn't characterize a personal computer. Just to put things into perspective, a week's groceries, these days, for a family of four, cost about $150, a decent mid-priced car costs $15000, and a farily well equipped and appropriately designated personal computer with a 400MHz pentium, 8GB HDD, 64MB of RAM, OS installed, all the multimedia features, plus a current-generation modem (V.90) costs $400 less the monitor with monitors costing $139 for a 15" and $300 for a 20" type. These prices are from Best-Buy's ad in last Sunday's paper. You can probably do better if you shop. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 3:21 AM Subject: Re: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s >On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > >> This seems to be a well researched trail leading up to the Simon, IMO. > >Yes, Doug did a fantastic job. > >> However, any good guess as to how many Simons were actually made and >> successfully run from the over 400 plan sets sold? Any known to exist now? > >Doug is still looking for one, but he and another local Doug are looking >into building one. They've acquired a nice pile of relays and are hoping >to have one built by VCF 3.0 for exhibit. > >> To try to solve that First Microcomputer question, a set of attributes must >> first be set just like the set was to determine the 1st PC as shown in the >> above URL. Methinks that will be a bit troublesome as nobody seemed to >> agree on that during the last go-around of discussing the 1st Microcomputer >> here awhile back. > >Well, first what? First computer built around a microprocessor? That >would probably be Intel's development machines. Or should it include an >integrated CRT and keyboard? Or did it just have to have a serial >interface for a terminal? Or are lights and switches good enough for >output and input? > >Arguing firsts is mostly pointless because people have a problem agreeing >on the definition. I vote for the F14 CADC computer, since it was built >around what could be considered a "microprocessor" and was in production >and flying in the F14 in 1970. > >http://www.microcomputerhistory.com > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 04/03/99] >

26 years, 1 month

More 3rd Party DEC boards

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Versatec > PDP-11 Matrix control > This is a dual height board, but I'm pretty sure it's for a UNIBUS system, > thanks to the wierd connector sticking out the side of it for another board. Yeah, connectors out the side almost always signals non-Q-bus. This is part of the set that runs (surprise!) a Versatec plotter - think of it as a really labor-intensive laserprinter and you won't be too far off. >DILOG DQ342 >Quad Height, has a 34 and a 10-pin connector I think this is a MSCP MFM disk controller (there was also a floppy-only version.) >SCD-RQD11/EC >Quad Height, 4 20-pin connectors, 1 34-pin, and 1 10-pin. 3 LED's 2 green, >1 red. I think it's a Sigma ESDI controller, based on doing a DejaNews >search, it also looks like it _might_ be basically a rebadged WQESD >controller, since the one article talks about WOMBAT. Is this correct, and >can I just use my WQESD manual for it? The WQESD is the same as the SCD-RQD11/EC is the same as the Qualogy equivalent is the same as the DSD equivalent is the same as the American Digital Equivalent... *All* designed by Webster out of Australia. >Plessey >P/N 705920-100A >Quad Height, RAM board Count the chips, identify their type, and you know the size! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

z80 timing... 6502 timing

by edick＠idcomm.com

Since we've not seen any code for the 6502 yet, this may not be a problem, but since Apple didn't exactly make it easy to exchange diskettes with other systems, how would you propose to transfer a file, binary or otherwise between systems? Though I haven't gotten into it, I figured on cross-assembling from a PC to a PROM. That makes it easy for me, but how will others do it? It's enough of a problem transferring files from, say, a CP/M box running a Z-80, since PC's don't read 8" disks. How should this be dealt with? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)netwiz.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 3:17 AM Subject: Re: z80 timing... 6502 timing >>> Some things in this contest that sound reasonable to me; >> >>> Input and output are to memory resident buffers. >> >>> Inline code is too boring, and subrountine calling too important, so the >>> "task" should require perhaps modules; maybe make the contest half a dozen >>> subroutines which get called from a contest defined main program (using >>> some typical non asm language like C or pascal). >> >>> Contest submissions could be a simple binary file, file length, predefined >>> jump table for subroutines, the actual code. Some third party, can run the >>> code and time it on the hardware of their choice. >> >>Nice, but with these things, like internas of the system for input/output, >>binary and similarities, you tie again all down to a single system to >>use - we loose the idea of a cross platform competition where only basic >>processor features are measured (see also the subject). > >I don't see what you mean. By setting some basic format for the file >structure you make it PORTABLE, not restricted. Each target system then can >read the common format and arrange it however is best suited to that target >system prior to execution of code. > >

26 years, 1 month

Wang further info.

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Here are the model numbers/descriptions of the Wang system I mentioned back up the list aways: Wang VS7110 with 16MB mem (2) SMD disk controllers (3) 928 Workstation/Printer controllers (1) Multiline TC controller (2) 2295V Disk Storage Cabinets First one: (1) 75MB RSD removable (1) 454 MB SMD fixed (2) 314 MB SMD fixed Second one: (2) 454 MB SMD fixed (2) 5573-1 300 LPM Band Printers (2) third-party terminals. A note attached to the inventory sheet says that the CPU will not IPL due to bad disk in console SCU; disk cabs power up and pass self test. Printers not tested, no cables. ------------- PLEASE NOTE that I am awating the last corporate 'OK' on this stuff pending our Purchasing Department finding out that, in fact, no one is going to buy the gear. No one. Trust me folks.... ;} I imagine I will know Real Soon, because the stuff has to moved prior to May 10th. Again, I am listing this for those who need/love Wang gear... it's not for me. If there is no reasonably positive interest, I will most likely turn it down, and thus it will hit the skip. I can store it for a while if need be. Shipping is on you... (Why couldn't it have been an 11/780???) Cheers John

26 years, 1 month

z80 timing... 6502 timing

by edick＠idcomm.com

In reality, I recall that though TI didn't market their products the way Intel does now, they did market their home computers back in the early '80's. What's more they advertised their electronic toys more than all the other fellows you've mentioned combined. The TI salesman called me as often as any of the others, if not more. I was, after all, a user of many of their products, since they had more than any other single manufacturer, and their efforts to make their products accessible to small developers were a great help. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 4:51 PM Subject: Re: z80 timing... 6502 timing ><Now I know that many people didn't consider it a reasonable computer, but ><the TMS-9900 did make a memorable appearance in the TI-99/4/4A of blessed ><memory - 16K if I recall correctly. Once you added a PEB, RS-232 card, 32 ><memory card, 2 HH DS/SD floppies and an Extended Basic cartidge, it was a ><fine computer. > >Not quite true. There were the TI business systems, the ti990-xxx boards >that could be systems or used as SBCs and after the TI99/4a there was the >Geneve system that was marketed. Another was a ti9900 board for S100. >Also Technico systems had both the basic Super starter system as a SBC >and expansion boards for it as well. > >It didn't make the impact because TI didn't market it like intel, moto or >Mos tech.. Actually they didn't market it at all until the were an also >ran. Shame too as it was the fist 16bit single chip and vastly better than >8086 considering it was 4 years earlier. >Allison >

26 years, 1 month

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Does anyone have one of those first 4004 terminals that started everything < <Were they even built? They were calculators. Allison

26 years, 1 month

How scarce (valuable) is core for the PDP-8?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<My first thought was something like a small compass near each bit. I want <to avoid lights since I think they are less engaging, less an indicator <that something has happened. Ideally this should be an attractive looking <toy, that sparks curiousity. The ferrite would not show enough external field change to be a reliable indicator. However when the wires were driven they indeed would! Allison

26 years, 1 month

How scarce (valuable) is core for the PDP-8?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What might a drop of ferrofluid do if placed on a core? Show the fields induced by the wires and some of the remnant field (no current magnetic material is perfect magnetic conductor). Allison

26 years, 1 month

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the 80s

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Now, I have a decmate III, and that looks like a microcomputer to me. In effect it's the same damm thing. While the PDP-8 I'd concede is a mini of micro size it was not a single or multiple "chip based" system. That has to wait in the commercial realm for the 8008. <Exactly, yes I do define a microcomputer in those terms. it was a new <'era' in computing, just as the switch from mainframes to minicomputers Figures, retro revisionism. <microcomputers. One possible observation is that they cannot be <mounted in a 19" rack (as many minicomputers can be). Sure, you <can get a minicomputer in a non-rack mount version, but show <me the person or company that bought rack mounted apple ][ <microcomputers... Well the Altair, IMSAI, and even apple were available as rack cased and mounted as such. For the real rack king the OSI systems as most were rack frames in various forms. Again a rack doe not make it a mini as the LSI-11 was available as non rack and rack systems. The non rack would be PDT-11/1xx series and the racked would be the LSI-11/03. For the moment I'll for get the PRO3xx, Qbus and the Unibus systems that used the F (2-3chips) or J11 (one chip) versions of the PDP-11 mini. <Do we at least agree that there was a microcomputer era that <started either near the mid 70's or early 80's (depending on how <you define microcomputer)? If not, what do you call the change Microcomputer in 71 at the latest with the commercial deliver of the 8008. (there were non commercial systems before that). By the 80s the arguement was form not mini/micro as they were litereally the same in most cases. <that occured at that time. And what was the first computer or <computers that started ushering in that change (even though at the <time, they didnt realize it was a significant trend)? Well, I'd easily identify as for as 5 major trends and likely more in the span from the intro from the pdp-8 through the start of the 32bit era. Your forgetting I worked for NEC from 79 through 83 and before that TANDY Computer(z80), Hazeltine(8080 and 8048 in terminals), Automated processes (8008). I was one of the first 1000 (SN#200) to buy an Altair. If anything I not only realized the eras I was out there making them! Allison

26 years, 1 month

OT: Re: Time to declare State of Massachusetts the ENEMY! Hey!

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 14/04/99 16:32:06 Eastern Daylight Time, max82(a)surfree.com writes: << Actually, you might see 486s also. I spent half an hour last saturday smashing all kinds of computers, from PS/2 Model 30 to DEC 486. They were being trashed, and we decided to have some fun while we were at it. We stomped on them till they were practically pancakes (the drives had been removed). It was quite fun :) >> that was a rather stupid thing to do. All of those computers could have been of some use, if not to just be salvaged for parts to revive other computers.

26 years, 1 month

z80 timing... 6502 timing

by wrm＠ccii.co.za

Hi all My name is Wouter, I'm new here, and I never throw anything away. <everyone>Hi Wouter!</everyone> :-) From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> >I saw one ad for an >SC/MP, in '77, but that one was a homebrewed model. Other than that, it was >not of much interest here. Was that not the case in Germany? The processor >was still in National's data book, but I really wasn't then and am not now >of any operating system or application software for it. I don't believe I >ever saw a real SC/MP based computer. http://ccii.dockside.co.za/~wrm/ccc.html Warning: pages in progress! Wouter

26 years, 1 month

z80 timing... 6502 timing

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Now I know that many people didn't consider it a reasonable computer, but <the TMS-9900 did make a memorable appearance in the TI-99/4/4A of blessed <memory - 16K if I recall correctly. Once you added a PEB, RS-232 card, 32 <memory card, 2 HH DS/SD floppies and an Extended Basic cartidge, it was a <fine computer. Not quite true. There were the TI business systems, the ti990-xxx boards that could be systems or used as SBCs and after the TI99/4a there was the Geneve system that was marketed. Another was a ti9900 board for S100. Also Technico systems had both the basic Super starter system as a SBC and expansion boards for it as well. It didn't make the impact because TI didn't market it like intel, moto or Mos tech.. Actually they didn't market it at all until the were an also ran. Shame too as it was the fist 16bit single chip and vastly better than 8086 considering it was 4 years earlier. Allison

26 years, 1 month

more chording keyboards

by max82＠surfree.com

Hi, I still haven't built a chording keyboard, but I'd like to know, what are its advantages/disadvantages over a regular one? I realize the general differences, what I'm looking for is 'it would be great for typing because.., it would be awful for data entry because....' --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power

26 years, 1 month

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the 80s

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Upon the date 02:12 AM 4/22/99 -0700, Sellam Ismail said something like: >On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > -- snip -- >> To try to solve that First Microcomputer question, a set of attributes must >> first be set just like the set was to determine the 1st PC as shown in the >> above URL. Methinks that will be a bit troublesome as nobody seemed to >> agree on that during the last go-around of discussing the 1st Microcomputer >> here awhile back. > >Well, first what? First computer built around a microprocessor? That Yes, 'first what?' That's pretty much my point in writing that paragraph above because there's no apparently clear concensus on the set of attributes. >would probably be Intel's development machines. Or should it include an Intel's devel machines would be a logical choice if one holds to the first microcomputer machine in question using a microprocessor. After all, since Intel is the "inventor" of the uP and the Busicom calculator product was probably not "programmable", then the first ones could have been from Intel. However, your F14 CADC computer choice below holds the most water when considering uP-based machines. Therefore, as a result of recently disclosed confidential information as many of us had already seen months ago on the microcomputerhistory.com site, the MP944 chipset-based computer should indeed be considered the first microcomputer. Ultimately, an etymology of the word 'microcomputer' should be undertaken with respect to its' being attached to a *particular* machine, whether uP-based or not, in order to answer the question clearly. I suggest we start there. What does the OED say? >integrated CRT and keyboard? Or did it just have to have a serial >interface for a terminal? Or are lights and switches good enough for >output and input? > >Arguing firsts is mostly pointless because people have a problem agreeing >on the definition. I vote for the F14 CADC computer, since it was built >around what could be considered a "microprocessor" and was in production >and flying in the F14 in 1970. > >http://www.microcomputerhistory.com Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa

26 years, 1 month

The Paxton auction: any interest in rescues

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Yes, the dual 5 1/4" Andromeda drive has a single 34 pin connector in the back. What might it be worth to you? Paxton

26 years, 1 month

How scarce (valuable) is core for the PDP-8?

by clintw＠colorado.cirrus.com

> From allisonp(a)world.std.com Wed Apr 21 17:10:05 1999 > Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: How scarce (valuable) is core for the PDP-8? > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > Content-Length: 367 > X-Lines: 15 > > <How long does core stay magnetized without power? > > Years. > > <How many bytes of battery-backed RAM are there in a typical PC? > > Not a lot usually something in the 32-128byte range, maybe more. > > <Haven't there been contemporary memory devices that use nano-scale > <cores, to eliminate the battery needs and radiation sensitivity of RAM? > > Not that I'm aware of. > > Allison > > Actually, there are a few companys making FRAMs. Essentially they use a small amount of magnetic material to provide non-volatile storage. They may even be core shaped :) clint

26 years, 1 month

Wang word proc Free in SoCal

by jpl15＠netcom.com

I have been offered a largish Wang word processor system... a washing-machine size CPU and two slightly smaller 8" floppy units, several terminals and two printers... no doc or software at this time. I will get model numbers etc. when I actually get to spend some time poking around the units. My question before I actually commit to saving this from the dumpster is: anybody want it??? I sure don't... They're *big* and heavy, so shipping is definately a factor, unless you want to arrange to pick it up, in which case there is a loading dock available. Cheers John PS: TRW Saturday.....

26 years, 1 month

The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the 80s

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Then the Cromemco Z-2 series was designed specifically for rack mount >applications... (I have an example of that one in my collection - >currently in a rack) B^} The catalogs usually pictured the Z-2 in a nice wooden office cabinet - often an integral part of a desk. In the field, certainly, open metal racks make much more sense :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

z80 timing... 6502 timing

by edick＠idcomm.com

That 8073 from National is in my inventory, though I don't recall its being an SC/MP. It's probably something, though, and I somehow doubt it's an 8048-series component. Dick -----Original Message----- From: KFergason(a)aol.com <KFergason(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 9:59 PM Subject: Re: z80 timing... 6502 timing >In a message dated 4/21/99 6:09:47 PM Central Daylight Time, >allisonp(a)world.std.com writes: > >> <Name a non-homebrew SC/MP based computer. >> <(note, I believe one existed, but memory is fuzzy till i get home to >> <the old magazines) >> >> Not including the three sold by National Semi or the ones that used the >> 8073 SC/MP with a internal rom tiny basic(also sold be national)??? >> >> Allison >> > >Yes, not including any by NS. I know they produced boards, >just like most manufacturers did. > >DigiKey had something in their catalogs, but its been so long, I >don't remember exactly what it was. (maybe just reselling the NS stuff?) > >Kelly > >

26 years, 1 month

homemade computer for fun and experience...

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'm going to have to take an opposing position once again. I'd never have given up on terminals, having invested hundreds of kilobucks in them over time. My recollection, biased, I'm sure, by the ten years of trouble-free, experience, thanks to being terminal-free is that they were more trouble than I ever expected. Since I stopped using terminals, I've not once been unable to use a software package because I didn't have the right terminal. Whether it's VMS or WORDSTAR, it is a royal pain if the hardware I've got won't work. Terminals are different. They behave differently, given various commands. Yes, ANSI terminals are more or less compatible, but they won't work with the applications I used to use under CP/M at all. I have never had a desire for DEC hardware, mainly because of my distaste (and disdain) for their application of technology, and of course for their overemphasis on the bottom line, meaning THEIR bottom line. If you read the fine print, their sales documents specifically deny that they claim their products work. argghhh! I'm GLAD they're gone. THEY were the reason I had to have terminals around as long as I did. A keyboard interface is quite straightforward. A video display is not. I agree that there's reason why so many computers used terminals, but now that we don't have to do that, I propose that we not limit ourselves to what little a terminal can do. See . . . there are reasons NOT to use a terminal. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 3:01 PM Subject: Re: homemade computer for fun and experience... >> >> While I agree fundamentally in that you really don't have to have graphic >> output capabilities, to wit, I did without it for over 30 years of computer >> use, I don't believe there's any reason to favor the terimnal over the >> direct-mapped monochrome video display. It's nominally a 2000 character > >A few reasons. It's a lot easier to add a serial port than add a video >display/keyboard system (I've done both, many times). And Tim is right : >Serial terminals are probably a lot more universal than whatever flavour >of monitor that you pick. > >> as for what you find difficult to get fixed . . . (a) who cares about fixing >> a serial card? Another costs $3. (b) pre-vga monochrome cards and monitors > >I care. Particularly when I need the darn thing over a weekend, it's >failed on Saturday night, and I have a junk box full of chips, but no >spare boards... I also care about keeping the landfills empty. > >And I specificially mentioned the IBM Async card for a reason. It has a >current loop I/O facility. AFAIK none of the cheap clones - the ones >you'll get for $3 - have this facility. Adding it wouldn't be hard given >a schematic and a well-stocked junk box, but what's the point? By the >time you've traced out the schematic and made the mods you might as well >have fixed the original card. > >Suffice it to say that I have full schematics of this PC and intend to >keep on fixing it properly... > >> abound at the thrift stores. Keyboards do as well. (c) so long as hard disk >> drives of the ST506 variety still abound in the thrift stores, the > >Those drives are getting fairly hard to find in the UK :-( > >> controllers will too. I passed on an 'AT box a week ago, which had a VGA >> card, a 200+ MB eide 3.5" 1/3-height hard disk, and much of the usual stuff > >You're missing the point. If I have my data on an ST506 drive and the >controller fails, the last thing I need is an EIDE drive, however big it >is. I need a controller, or the chips to fix my existing controller. I >want to get my data back. > >> I figure, if I can't replace it with something similar, then I'll replace it >> with something more current. > >Maybe... You might find you're replacing an awful lot of the machine, >though... ISA is on the way out, remember.. > >Personally, I'll stick to machines that I can maintain properly (no board >swapping!). And _I_'ll decide when I want to upgrade. > >-tony >

26 years, 1 month

SUN tape drive was RE: Sun 1 question

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Aaron, Got it open. It has a Exabyte EXB-8505 drive in it. Don't know what I'll use it for. I haven't even been able to get my SUN IPC to boot yet. Thanks for the help. Joe At 08:39 PM 4/21/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Joe, > >Simple, once you know the trick. You have to push in hidden tabs through >the holes in the side of the case. Stick a straightened paper-clip in the >third hole from the back, second row down and lift the case off from the >rear... > >BTW, if for some reason you need a replacement drive for it, let me know >(I've got a couple doing dust-collection duty somewhere). > >Cheers, > >Aaron > > >On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Joe wrote: > >> Aaron, >> >> OK now how the hell do I get it out to find out what's in there? >> >> Joe >> >> At 01:27 PM 4/21/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >The 411 is just the box. Mine has an Archive Viper QIC-150 in it that I >> >use with an Emulex MT-02 controller. You'll have to take a look inside to >> >see what you've got in there. Under SunOS, you should be able to access >> >this as device st[devnum]. Check the man page for "st" for some more info. >> > >> >Aaron >> > >> >On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Joe wrote: >> > >> >> I just picked up a SUN model 411 tape drive PN 595-1711-03. I can't find it >> >> in the SUN FAQ , does anyone have any info on it? >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> > >> > >> > >

26 years, 1 month

VME? related to College search.

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'm quite certain that VME predates the 1983 date you've specified. I made/sold a wirewrap card for VME back in the early portion of 1982 at which time I was a latecomer to the VME Bus Manufacturers' Group. Mostek and Motorola both had complete systems available for 68K development and such. Not much effort had been put into making it useful for anything else, but FORCE Computers, apparently a German company with outlets here in the US, had a complete set of boards for nearly any common purpose and some kind of OS available. at that time. BICC-Vero made cardcages, backplanes, and wire-wrap boards for the VME of the time, and several inependent card makers were making the little "single-connector" cpu and interface boards for embedded applications in 1982. This happened to be at the same time as my last divorce, so I have realatively good recall due to association with other events of the time. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 7:18 AM Subject: Re: VME? related to College search. >Upon the date 12:07 AM 4/22/99 -0400, jpero(a)cgocable.net said something like: >>What's about this VME and programming on that 68000 type? > >If I understand your question, the VMEbus is a 32-bit microcomputer bus >which is used primarily in industrial computers. Certain Sun products also >used it but I defere to those experts for further Sun comment. > >VMEbus was invented by John Black and others at Motorola in 1983. Came from >the now-obsolete VersaModule bus structure Moto had since I think the >mid-70's. Basic form factor was the Eurocard with DIN 46xxx connector >(can't recall DIN number at moment). Hence, VMEbus = VersaModule Eurocard >bus. Quickly became a standardized bus protocol worldwide. > >Moto, Mostek and Philips were earliest suppliers of hardware. Others >followed. Still somewhat popular and well supported today. The 68k >processor family was the most used uP. However, Intel uP's, Moto's 88000 >RISC uP, some Transputer devices and other uP's were also used in VMEbus >module designs. > >A fairly recent extension of the VMEbus protocol, VME64, extends the bus to >64 bits. The physics community is a major user of VME64 nowadays. > >> >>Don't anyone have graphics of VME stuff like cages, cards, VME > >Start by looking at this URL from eg3 which has a good list of VMEbus >resources: http://www.eg3.com/indc/indcxvme.htm. > >VITA - The VMEBus International Trade Association, has a URL: >http://www.vita.com/ . You could find more info and links there. > >>equipments? And how common is this out in that canadian field? > >Should be as common as it was in the States as it was found usually in >embedded industrial control and data collection systems in factories, etc. >Of course, the PeeCee stuff replaced some installations if the user wanted >to move to or start his/her design using the Intel processor or go for a >design 'on the cheap and dirty' as VMEbus products and s/w could be a bit >pricey. Multibus I and II and, to a smaller extent, STDbus and G64 were >competition to VMEbus. > >> >>I see that in my college electronic engineering technology course >>info by Algonquin College in canada within Ottawa, Ontario. >> >>Other college St. Lawerence College offers same type of course >>but uses x86 and pc type circuits in their courses which in my >>opinion bit shortsighted and lacks "commerical" areas compared to >>Algonquin's. > >I agree. Algonquin is fine with including VMEbus and other industrial >busses in their course structure. PeeCee could be included but for critical >real time apps it should be stated that VMEbus and its board products and >OS's are one the several non-PeeCee systems which really shine. > >> >>Keep your thoughts freely flowing! > >Yeah, well the on topic ones are fine from us, but . . . ;) > >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net >Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa

26 years, 1 month

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