--- Cameron Kaiser <ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu> wrote:
> [C= 1520 plotter]
> ::Does anyone out there have any software for it? (I don't recall seeing
> ::any on ftp.funet.fi).
>
> As a matter of fact, *I* do. Do you get comp.binaries.cbm?
Yes, but I don't check it as frequently as I used to (not your fault...
I don't have telnet access to my primary news server from where I am).
-ethan
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
It would be well to get the timelines aligned. The model 1 was of 1977
vintage. The model -3 was worked up in the late '70's before Apple got its
juggernaut rolling. Radio Shack had a real chance to make the microcomputer
market its own. No one had a decent sales and service network, not to
suggest that Radio Shack's was really decent, but at least it was there.
The Model 3 was out in '81? by which time double density was "old hat" and
by 1982-1983, Apple had the door closed. Having turned out two (if not
more) pieces of relative rubbish, the RS people had no chance after 1983.
IBM was gaining acceptance (nobody ever got fired for buying IBM, right?)
and ultimately legitimized the PC for "respectable" business use. By mid
'84, the 8-bitters were in the "Komputerdaemmerung."
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: What if,... early PCs (was: stepping machanism
><The RCA TV set design that RS used for a monitor for the model 1 was NOT
><really adequate for 80x24 display. (YES, I've done it.)
>
>It could but the opto isolator used to keep the hot chassis and the video
>seperate wasn't up to the task. Bypassed and of course using an isolation
>transformer it was much crisper even at 80 cols.
>
><Double density was NOT readily achievable in 1978. And the poor quality
>
>My dog, don't tell DEC that or intel.
>
><> was SLOW. The Z-80-card in the Apple was significantly (and noticeably)
><> faster. The two machines otherwise occupied about the same desk space,
a
>
>Than the TRS80, every thing was faster. Next to my S100 CPM crate with a
>real 4mhz z80 and no wait state memory they were both slow.
>
><> aside from the stupid, Stupid, STUPID choice to leave the Tandy machine'
><> display at 16 lines of 64 characters (about half of what was on a 24x80,
>
>As it works 64wide was more useful for word processing than 32 or 40.
>
>Allison
>
>> The one Mike has is definately the proprietary one (I also have one sitting
>> here). It was packed with scanners like the ScanJet Plus.
>
> If that one is rare then the MCA version I use with the scanjet I have
> must be unique! ;)
On the contrary, I have a scanjet (which I've never used) and the MCA adapter.
I have no machines with MCA, though (yet!), so I might be offering to buy the
ISA version. One day...
Philip.
NOS! RARE!! VALUABLE!!! (yeah, right...)
In the boxes from a recent acqusition, I found a number of boxed of
Centronics 'Linewriter' 400/800 and 1200 series ribbon cartridges.
Since I don't have any of these printers in the collection (in fact, have
never heard of the thing!), they are available to anyone who can use them
for cost of shipping or flat out free if you pick them up!
There are about six boxes (of six carts each) of the 400/800 ribbons, and
one box of the 1200 ribbons.
Of course, if you want to offer something interesting in trade, thats cool
as well! B^}
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives
>>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!
[Power supplies with earth return]
> I have never looked but I suppose it might. I have a 400A service and
> sometimes I do a fair job of loading it. The transformer ped is out of the
Another difference! It is very unusual in the UK to give a domestic customer
more than 100A in the main incoming fuse. 400A on each side of your 115-0-115
supply is getting on for 100kW. Do you really use that? I would have thought
10kW would be more likely (my parents use 36kW at the winter peak, mostly
heating load. 50A from each of three phases at 240V)
Anyway, 400A on the 240V side corresponds to nearly 7A to be returned through
the earth at 14kV. Ouch! I wonder what the resistance of the earth connection
is. There will be a minimum resistance to prevent undue voltage rise under
short circuit conditions, but I don't know how this relates to earth return
circuits...
The only places where I've seen this sort of arrangement, there are still 2
conductors. One insulated to HV for the line, and one lightly insulated for the
(HV) neutral.
> way so I rarely go closer than 30 feet from it. They also must put the
> ground rod(s) inside the for safety (hate to think what it would be like if
ISTR that in the UK there is a minimum distance between LV and HV earth
electrodes.
> the ground got cut on the primary). I have never seen them but they have to
> be there somewhere.
Earth open circuit? Hmm. The entire HV winding rises to 13kV and the HV
neutral flashes over to the transformer tank? Assuming the tank is part of the
LV earth system. Otherwise the transformer tank rises too, and flashes over to
your house supply...
Philip.
><OK, how about it. Put a ring of compasses around the wire with needles str
><enough magnetised that they will stay pointing N-S around the ring regardle
><the Earth's field.
><
><Can you then flip them with a current? A very good visual demonstration of
><core works!
>
> Yep, That would be good to watch but that's really a demo of the fields
> around conductors (imporant building block).
I actually meant to take the demo one step further. Each compass needle has its
own magnetic field. Put them close enough together and (with luck) the N end of
one needle will attract the S end of the other.
Put several of these compases in a ring, and the needles will point around the
ring, whether or not there is a current flowing down a wire in the middle.
And there are two stable states, just like a core.
With (even more) luck, you can flip between states with a current. Just like
core.
Worth a try?
This weekend I shall see if I can find some cheap, small compasses in a toy shop
or somewhere...
Philip.
Ok, I booted a disk labelled "HT-11B distribution" on my H-11 and it comes
up to the "." prompt. But not much else. (dir doesn't work for example)
Is there a clue page somewhere ?
--Chuck
>had DCL incorporated in it... to get a directory, you have to
>run PIP (R PIP) and issue the command 'ddx:/L' where dd is the
>device you're using (presumably DX) and 'x' is the unit number.
Yep, ignore my comment about R DIR. I'm pretty sure that DIR.SAV
didn't exist until CCL came about (though of course you never know
for sure with HT-11...)
I spent an hour explaining to the folks at Mentec yesterday how
IGETC and IFREEC aren't in RT-11 V5.5 and later SYSLIB.OBJ, despite how
the manual said that they were still there :-).
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>Ok, I booted a disk labelled "HT-11B distribution" on my H-11 and it
>comes up to the "." prompt. But not much else. (dir doesn't work for
example)
I believe HT-11 was based on a version of RT-11 which had not yet
had DCL incorporated in it... to get a directory, you have to
run PIP (R PIP) and issue the command 'ddx:/L' where dd is the
device you're using (presumably DX) and 'x' is the unit number.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>Ok, I booted a disk labelled "HT-11B distribution" on my H-11 and it comes
>up to the "." prompt. But not much else. (dir doesn't work for example)
Try a "R DIR".
What is the exact text of the error message? (You know, the error
messages are not put there for you to ignore. They do mean something
to others, even if they seem cryptic to you.)
>Is there a clue page somewhere ?
I think your copy of HT-11B will be roughly equivalent to RT-11 V2
(maybe V3). No online help. You should find the big set of blue books
that came with it! Many of the utility options from later versions
of RT will work, but not all, and the details of a SYSGEN changed greatly
between major versions.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Doing a casual dumpster dive this eve and found a box with
Vic-1520 Colour Printer Plotter. NIB including manual and cables. Unopened
tube containing the 4 colour nibs. Dont know if they're dried out but they're
water-based.
An MJB H8401 4 socket game-port expander and 40/80 converter
in a really sturdy metal case with 6-led select switch and reset.
C= 802 printer like new.
New parallel card for Apple ll with cable and lle socket plus typed manual
>from PC Wares .
What looks to be a 1/2 ht. 5 1/4 Apple ll floppy in a 1541 case usual All
cable but with a different non-apple controller card inside ??
A Bantam paperback manual on the Timex-Sinclair 1000 and a couple of
copied mmanuals (Oxford Pascal for C64, Spinnaker), a package from Quantum
Link with a discount coupon. Wonder if AOL would honor it ? :^))
Made my day !
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page.
t3c(a)xoommail.com
Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C
I agree in principle but I just double checked my memory and just looked at
my HT feed. It is only connected to the HT line and then drops down into a
conduit and under ground for the ~800 feet to the pedistal mounted
transformer. There is only the 1 connection at the pole. A friend of mine
used to burry lines for the local phone company and has hit on occasion
(when the locator screwed up) the 14KV drops and said all he ever finds is a
single wire from the result. He did say it is impressive when it gets
shorted however. He has melted teeth off the backhoe bucket and his ears
hurt for a while afterwords. It also works wonders on the ditch witch teeth
and the vibrating plow blades. Even though the power drops are supposed to
be a minimum of 3 feet down that is not always the case.
Dan
> I don't know about where you come from but in my state,
>the power company is required to keep the ground current to
>a minumum. The smallest power line I've see was two wires.
>Much of the older telegraph lines used ground return. I don't
>think it would be good for general power distribution. They also
>used ground return on many telephone setups.
> This reminds me of a story I once heard:
> A phone repairman heard of this dog that could predict
>when the phone would ring. A few seconds before the bell
>rang, the dog would let out a howl.
> He had to see this magic dog.
> He when to the old ladies house and he found the dog chained
>to the telephone box on the side of the house. He then realized
>how the dog knew. You see, it was winter and the ground was
>frozen at the box. This meant that when a ring came in, it
>didn't have enough current to make the bell ring but there
>was enough current to give the dog a strong shock through
>the chain. The poor dog would get a nasty shock and urinate
>on the ground. On the next ring, the urine would provide
>enough conduction that the bell would ring.
> That is the story of the magic dog.
>Dwight
>
>Dwight
>
>
>I've just gotta ask! Does it bring the worms to the surface when it
>rains?
> - don
I have never looked but I suppose it might. I have a 400A service and
sometimes I do a fair job of loading it. The transformer ped is out of the
way so I rarely go closer than 30 feet from it. They also must put the
ground rod(s) inside the for safety (hate to think what it would be like if
the ground got cut on the primary). I have never seen them but they have to
be there somewhere.
Dan
>> >How can the transformer possibly work if the primary is only connected
to
>> one
>> >HT line? What is the other side of the primary connected to? Where's
the
>> >return path?
>>
>> Earth
>
>I had an electronics tech that worked for me a number of years, and we were
>working on some control circuits that had only one wire between two panels.
>In answering the question as to how the path was completed, his answer (I
>hope tongue-in-cheek) was through the air. I am assuming here that "Earth"
>was also said tongue-in-cheek!
>
It is the actual way they do it here. See my prior post from looking at the
pole feed.
Dan
I'd kick in ten buck or so for a picture of the bonfire :)
>
> Especially if its not limited to 10 year old stuff. I have all these
> Microsoft manuals and CD's for learning about Microsoft NT 4.0
> (mainly administration stuff)... What i'm gonna do with 8-10 sets
> of this stuff is puzzing me to no end.
>
> -Lawrence LeMay
>
>
>How can the transformer possibly work if the primary is only connected to
one
>HT line? What is the other side of the primary connected to? Where's the
>return path?
Earth
In one of the HP 21MXE machines I received recently, there is a Versatec
printer interface. I have no need for it at all. It consists of about 6 or 8
interface cards, plus a rackmount box. From what I can tell, it was used to
hook up a versatec plotter. It also *APPEARS* to have a parallel interface
on the box, but I don't know any particulars, this may not be correct.
If someone has a real use for it, they're welcome to have it for shipping
costs. However, if no one claims it, I will likely strip off the front panel
switches on the rackmount box (which are the authentic style for my
Nicolet-80 which has some non-authentic front panel switches installed by
the last user) and pitch the rest.
If interested, just email me for particulars.
Jay West
>"Daniel T. Burrows" <danburrows(a)mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Close but not quite right. For single phase installations the power
company
>> supplies 2 hots and neutral. This is a center tapped secondary and the
>> neutral is earthed at the service entrance.
>
>No, for split-phase, the power company does not "supply" a neutral from the
>distribution system. The neutral is *only* tied to the center tap of the
>secondary and to ground. It is not tied to anything on the primary side of
>the transformer; that would be bad.
That is what I was trying to decsribe above.
>> The primary of this transformer
>> is fed from only 1 high voltage phase.
>
>I don't believe this; it doesn't match the descriptions I've read
elsewhere.
>I've always seen it shown in diagrams with the primary connected across two
>phases of the three-phase. Otherwise you need a high-current return path
>somewhere else.
Take a close look at rural areas and there is only 1 High voltage line
present.
It is fed to the HT input of all the pole transformers.
>To even the loading of the phases, the transformers for split-phase service
>have their primaries distributed between the three possible combinations of
>the three phases.
When there are 3 phases available that sometimes is the case. Look closely
at the pole transformers and in most cases when there are 2 or more
transformers mounted on 1 pole there is only 1 HT input to each transformer.
If it were between phases there would be 2 HT inputs.
Dan
At 09:21 PM 4/25/99 -0700, you wrote:
>At 09:43 PM 4/25/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>My original post may have been misleading. It just says "Macintosh" on the
>>back of the case. I'm assuming that it's a 128K Mac because: ...
>>
>>How can I check the memory capacity, to see if it's a 128K or a 512K Fat
>>Mac? I'm not that familiar with Macs.
>
>Boot it up, drop down the left hand (I think) menu and select 'About
>Finder'. This should indicate the memory in the system.
>
>-jim
>
>---
>jimw(a)computergarage.org
>The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
>Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>
When I choose "About the Finder ...", I get
"The Macintosh Finder Version 1.0 (18 Jan 84)
@ 1984 Apple Computer"
No mention of memory size. But I would guess that it doesn't mention the
memory size because no size other than 128K was contemplated; i.e. this is
an original Mac. Any other way to check? BTW, were the "Programmer's
switches" (Interrupt and Reset) de-emphasized after the original Mac? My
Mac Plus has the same microswitches inside the case, but I had never heard
of them before.
This system is a bit of a puzzle. As I understand it, a single drive
original Mac was almost unusable, due to lack of RAM and the need for
frequent disk swaps. So I would expect mint condition. However, this system
(Mac, mouse, KB, Imagewriter printer) shows some signs of wear, even though
it was never upgraded to 512K, and there was no second drive with the system.
Regards,
Mark
>> > CKK FA <xy> 1 11/44 Diagnostic ROM*
>> >My second problem is the first test, I can't find a KKFA*.* test. Is there
>> >another test I can run on the diagnostic ROM?
>>
>> The diagnostic ROM *is* the test :-). This is the "big" bipolar
>> PROM located near the boot PROM's. And the test is executed at startup.
>OK, I'll buy that, BUT why was there a Diagnostic for the Diagnostic ROM at
>one point? It does seem rather redundant though.
I think you're taking the table too literally: the Diagnostic ROM *is*
the Diagnostic ROM test :-). Generically, it's a dirt-simple memory
test which also gives the CPU a bit of a exercise (simple bit manipulation
and looping) in the process. At least some of the Diagnostic ROM's also
do a checksum on themselves (this is actually a requirement for firmware
in some European countries) but I don't know if the 11/44's ROM does this.
>> >CKKKAC0 11-44 KK11B CACHE
>> >
>> >RMI REGISTER (G5179) NOT USED-SKIP HI ORDER BIT ADDRESS TEST
>>
>> The G5179 is the PDP-11/44 Remote Memory Interface (an extremely
>> rare option). You don't have it :-).
>Ah, good, this was the most disturbing of the messages I got.
*Generally*, G-series modules referred to by XXDP+ are modules
with special diagnostic purposes. These G-modules are often simulators or
exercisers, and in many cases were not often found outside of
the manufacturing and repair facilities. Other G-series modules
are the components of low-level formatters and dedicated hardware
test jigs. Many of these modules, according to the hardware indices
I have at hand, were custom-wrapped boards produced in extremely small
(sometimes only 1 or 2) quantities, yet they still have G-numbers.
>Now I've just got to pour through the doc's for the peripherals so I can
>figure out what tests to run on them.
For at least your RL11 and RL02's:
ZRLG?? Controller Test #1
ZRLH?? Controller Test #2
ZRLI?? Drive Test #1
ZRLJ?? Drive Test #2
ZRLK?? Performance Exerciser
ZRLL?? Drive Compatiblity Test
ZRLM?? Bad Sector File Utility
Running the drive tests or performance exerciser with multiple drives
at the same time produces an impressive light show as all the unit lights
blink in both regular and random patterns!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>My single biggest problem seems to be stopping a diagnostic once I've
>started it. So far I've been resorting to stopping the CPU and rebooting,
>but one would think that there must be a better way, and that I've missed
>it.
You don't have to reboot; you can often just halt the CPU and start
up XXDP+ again at the restart address (this is given at boot time as
a message on the console.) Some diagnostics (especially the really
extensive memory diagnostics) wipe out the XXDP+ monitor and you do,
indeed, have to reboot.
> CKK FA <xy> 1 11/44 Diagnostic ROM*
>My second problem is the first test, I can't find a KKFA*.* test. Is there
>another test I can run on the diagnostic ROM?
The diagnostic ROM *is* the test :-). This is the "big" bipolar
PROM located near the boot PROM's. And the test is executed at startup.
#3 is #3, but I think this is proper behavior
CKKABD0 11/44 TRAPS
NO FLOATING POINT OPTION PRESENT
NO CIS OPTION PRESENT
CONSOLE
17777707 023252
>>>
>#5 may or may not be a problem with the cache (real problem is my not
>knowing how to interpret it).
>
>CKKKAC0 11-44 KK11B CACHE
>
>RMI REGISTER (G5179) NOT USED-SKIP HI ORDER BIT ADDRESS TEST
The G5179 is the PDP-11/44 Remote Memory Interface (an extremely
rare option). You don't have it :-).
>UNIBUS EXERCISER NOT USED-DMA TESTS NOT PERFORMED
There was also an optional Unibus exerciser that could be installed
instead of the normal terminator. These aren't all that rare - they're
very commonly found inside 11/750's.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>> > Take a close look at rural areas and there is only 1 High voltage line
>> > present.
>> > It is fed to the HT input of all the pole transformers.
>
>Same thing is done in rural areas in Oz. They are called SWR lines, which
>is TLA for Single Wire Run AFAIK.
>Not sure of the voltage, but I think it's around 8kv. (240v to
subscribers)
>They are somewhat unpopular, and are prone to surges and sags etc.
>Given the nature of the return path, (ground) and the way it would be
>affected by weather etc, this is not surprising.
I would think it would have a lot more surges and sags than it does. I
guess they manage to keep the HT runs short enough however. I have several
1 to 3 KVA UPS's here and rarely (except during storms) do they kick in.
Boy does it get noisy then with all their alarm beepers going.:) Can't wait
to move them out once I make room (and get batteries for) the 10 KVA online
UPS I picked up.
The HT lines I am on are around 14.5KV. The typical distribution lines I
have found vary from12KV to 14.5 in the different areas I have lived.
Currently in North Carolina.
Dan
Ok, I've finally dusted off this Motorola box I got the other day, it has
a MVME-101 CPU Card, A MVME225-2 Memory card and a MVME 319 Controller.
It runs OS/9 v2.1, it appears to have been used for some kind of robotics
application, but all the other cards have been removed. Does anyone have
more info on this box?
Cheers
Karl
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Maftoum
Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia
Email: k.maftoum(a)student.canberra.edu.au
