test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Hi Tim, [Note that I went to the directory off the PDP-11 home page that alleges to have notes on RT-11 but except for the DECUS disks there aren't that many notes, and on the DECUS disks there is mostly just source code. (which would be ok if I can figure out how to assemble something into a SAV file)] Ok, so when I boot the disk labelled RT-11V02C on my H-11 it seems to work except if I try to use PIP to copy a file to a disk I formatted with HT-11 it doesn't work (gives me DIR-RD-ERR). I realize DEC was "famous" for not providing formatting software but is there a FORMAT program for this version? Interestingly PIP on the HT-11 DISK can read the disks just not the "official" RT11 --Chuck Contents of Disk 1: Contents of Disk 2: MONITR.SYS 46 5-JAN-78 RKMNSJ.SYS 46 5-JAN-78 DXMNFB.SYS 58 5-JAN-78 RKMNFB.SYS 58 5-JAN-78 DP .SYS 2 5-JAN-78 RFMNSJ.SYS 46 5-JAN-78 RK .SYS 2 5-JAN-78 RFMNFB.SYS 58 5-JAN-78 RF .SYS 2 5-JAN-78 DPMNSJ.SYS 46 5-JAN-78 TT .SYS 2 5-JAN-78 DPMNFB.SYS 58 5-JAN-78 LP .SYS 2 5-JAN-78 DT .SYS 2 5-JAN-78 BA .SYS 7 5-JAN-78 DX .SYS 2 5-JAN-78 SYSMAC.SML 18 5-JAN-78 CR .SYS 3 5-JAN-78 SYSMAC.8K 25 5-JAN-78 MT .SYS 6 5-JAN-78 BATCH .SAV 25 5-JAN-78 MM .SYS 6 5-JAN-78 EDIT .SAV 19 5-JAN-78 PR .SYS 2 5-JAN-78 MACRO .SAV 31 5-JAN-78 PP .SYS 2 5-JAN-78 ASEMBL.SAV 21 5-JAN-78 CT .SYS 5 5-JAN-78 EXPAND.SAV 12 5-JAN-78 DS .SYS 2 5-JAN-78 CREF .SAV 5 5-JAN-78 FILEX .SAV 11 5-JAN-78 LINK .SAV 25 5-JAN-78 SRCCOM.SAV 11 5-JAN-78 PIP .SAV 14 5-JAN-78 DUMP .SAV 5 5-JAN-78 PATCH .SAV 5 5-JAN-78 PATCHO.SAV 33 5-JAN-78 ODT .OBJ 9 5-JAN-78 VTMAC .MAC 7 5-JAN-78 VTHDLR.OBJ 8 5-JAN-78 SYSF4 .OBJ 33 5-JAN-78 DEMOFG.MAC 5 5-JAN-78 KB .MAC 33 5-JAN-78 DEMOBG.MAC 4 5-JAN-78 22 FILES, 475 BLOCKS LIBR .SAV 15 5-JAN-78 5 FREE BLOCKS TT 1 5-JAN-78 LOAD .SAV 7 5-JAN-78 26 FILES, 370 BLOCKS 110 FREE BLOCKS

26 years, 1 month

Simple rt-11 question

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Ok, I have managed to assemble and link a program! > >.R MACRO >*DEMOFG.OBJ,DEMOFG.LST=DEMOFG.MAC BTW - the file types (formerly called extensions) are defaulted based on position in the command line. So: .R MACRO *DEMOFG,DEMOFG=DEMOFG is equivalent to the above... The RT Utilities use something called CSI (command string interpreter) which has a standard form... up to 3 output files (the ones to the left of the '=') and up to 6 input files (the ones to the right of the '='). For MACRO, the output files are objects, lists and symbol table (in later versions). And the 6 input files are all expected to be .MAC >results in the expected listing and object file (I'm glad Gary Kildall >modelled CP/M after RT-11!) It sure does look that way, doesn't it... :-) >Then I linked it with >.R LINK >*DEMOFG.SAV=DEMOFG.OBJ,ODT.OBJ Same as above comments here, only the defaults are: .SAV image, .MAP file for outputs, and up to 6 .OBJs for input. >Then I ran it with >.R DEMOFG >and it ran, popped into ODT which I continued out of and exited 'cuz the >background program wasn't running. To run a foreground program, you issue the command FRUN <program_name> >OK. So we're almost cooking, but it raises some interesting questions: > 1) I can compile on the other disk by preceding the names > with DX1: in the assmbler line. Or you could ASSIGN DX1 DK, and then R MACRO and specify the command line without device specifications. Typically, one would boot from one device, then ASSIGN the other device as DK (default disk) on which all new files would be created if not otherwise specified, and from which all input files would be taken, again unless otherwise specified. > 2) How can I run a program on DX1: ? If I type .R DX1:PROG > it says ?ILL-CMD? The 'R' command is used for running programs/utilities specifically >from the system device 'SY' (the boot device). To run a program >from another disk, you can either do 'RUN' with no device specified to have it run from DK:, or 'RUN dev:program' to run 'program' from 'dev:' > 3) Which side of the disk is the directory on? (inner or outer > tracks?) The directory for all RT-11 volumes is a contiguous set of blocks starting with block 6. It consists of two blocks per segment for as many segments as have been specified in the PIP dev:/Z[:n] command (up to 31). Each segment can specify up to 72 files. So for one segment, the directory is in blocks 6 and 7. The first file data block is block 010. >The last question relates to the disk problem I'm seeing. My guess is >that write precompensation is screwed up on that disk which would explain >why it works until it writes the directory. Sorry, can't answer that one... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 1 month

HT-11 bit bi bit

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Ok, so another clue discovered: > 1) Typing DX1:/Z "zeros" the directory on a > floppy. > 2) Trying this on drive 1 leaves the floppy > scrambled, doing it on drive 0 seems to > work. There may be a problem with your drive 1. >Trying DX0:A=DX1:MONITR.SYS/O does not write the boot block If my example showed two separate devices, that was incorrect. I believe both input device and output device have to be the same for this. And MONITR.SYS and DX.SYS have to exist on the volume which you are trying to make bootable. >A disk formatted and zeroed is not mbootable. right... >Since the source to FORMAT was included I thought I'd take a peek. It >tells the controller that is embedded in the drive "format that disk." >and it does. Aha... and you're using the Heathkit floppies, which can format the drives... >What the heck is used for "delete" on RT-11? backspace doesn't work nor >does DEL apparently. It should be DEL (0177). What happens when you type it? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 1 month

Simple rt-11 question

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Ok, I have managed to assemble and link a program! .R MACRO *DEMOFG.OBJ,DEMOFG.LST=DEMOFG.MAC results in the expected listing and object file (I'm glad Gary Kildall modelled CP/M after RT-11!) Then I linked it with .R LINK *DEMOFG.SAV=DEMOFG.OBJ,ODT.OBJ Then I ran it with .R DEMOFG and it ran, popped into ODT which I continued out of and exited 'cuz the background program wasn't running. OK. So we're almost cooking, but it raises some interesting questions: 1) I can compile on the other disk by preceding the names with DX1: in the assmbler line. 2) How can I run a program on DX1: ? If I type .R DX1:PROG it says ?ILL-CMD? 3) Which side of the disk is the directory on? (inner or outer tracks?) The last question relates to the disk problem I'm seeing. My guess is that write precompensation is screwed up on that disk which would explain why it works until it writes the directory. --Chuck

26 years, 1 month

Vax update

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

On an unrelated front, the NetBSD folks have released 1.4Beta and it actually mostly works on my uVax II (at least while I'm diskless). I've managed to recompile an entire kernel (takes most of the day :-) and install and run my new kernel. This means that I can actually debug the bus hang problem if I can get some documentation on the processor (KA630). I reiterate my call for a KA630 CPU manual, I only need it long enough to make a copy of it and return it. Alternately, if one turns up I'll pay up to $30 for it (that's what I figure it will cost to have it copied). And no, DEC no longer sells it as far as I can tell. --Chuck

26 years, 1 month

PC question

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 4/29/99 10:00:04 PM Central Daylight Time, bsa3(a)cornell.edu writes: > On Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 10:15:09PM -0800, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > To tell the truth, I can't think of ANY IBM that had a factory reset > > switch. My L40sx laptop has a place on the mother board for one, > > but no actual external switch. > > I'm fairly certain that I saw one on a 1990-vintage RS/6000. I'll > look tommorow and let you know. [That's about the only >= 1985 > workstation architecture I don't have an example of in my apartment.] > > yep, the 250's and 350's have a reset switch. i had to use one today. (the reset switch, that is) Kelly

26 years, 1 month

pip help

by mbg＠world.std.com

>would wildcarding be *.* ? or some other characters? and is it >DX1:*.*=DX0:*.* > >My pip just responds ?OUT FIL? >and DX1:=DX0:*.* responds with : ?ILL DEV? Right... the CSI requires a file specification of some sort (which is reason for the dummy filename I mentioned in a recent post). But I think that the proper form for wildcards in the copy is DX1:*=DX0:*.* but it has been so long, I won't commit to it... >I'm guessing that the version of FORMAT does this because if I FORMAT a >disk and then DCOPY the HT-11B Distribution to it, it boots. That is a strange FORMAT... Then again, it could be .CHAINing to PIP with the appropriate command... >Nope, no DUP. DUP didn't show up until a few releases later, when the functions of PIP were split into PIP, DUP and DIR. PIP was then specifically used for file copies, DUP for disk utility operations, and DIR specifically for directories. >The reason I ask is that in my quest for 8" floppies I found two floppies >marked RT-11V20C (which is one letter later than V20B which HT-11 thinks >it is) but I can't seem to get a complete copy of DISK 1, but I can boot >it. I know I have a copy of V2C in my collection, on RK05... it probably should be cleaned before use, though... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 1 month

pip help

by mbg＠world.std.com

>You also have to put a bootblock on the resulting disk to make it >bootable, but I don't know how to do this (off the top of my head) >in HT-11 (or RT-11 V2B). In later RT-11's, this is done via DUP, but >this doesn't exist in your distribution, does it? Boy, this is nudging some long-dormant brain cells... To write a bootstrap on V2(B or C), I believe the incantation is: .R PIP *DY1:A=DY1:MONITR.SYS/O * the 'A' is a dummy file name to satisfy the requirments of the CSI, the /O is the option for writing the boot, using blocks >from the file MONITR.SYS (which was listed in the directory Chuck supplied earlier). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer (1977-1992) Long-time RT-11 User (since 1975) +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 1 month

pip help

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Can anyone tell me how to copy files with PIP on an RT-11 V2 system? DCOPY >fails to copy the complete disk and while the directory is intact the disk >doesn't boot, so I want to use PIP to copy a file at a time and identify >which files are on the bad part of the disk. .R PIP *DY1:FILE.OUT=DY0:FILE.IN wildcarding works, too. If you want to find which blocks are readable, and your distribution has the null device built in, you can try copying each file to NL:. You also have to put a bootblock on the resulting disk to make it bootable, but I don't know how to do this (off the top of my head) in HT-11 (or RT-11 V2B). In later RT-11's, this is done via DUP, but this doesn't exist in your distribution, does it? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

pip help

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Can anyone tell me how to copy files with PIP on an RT-11 V2 system? DCOPY fails to copy the complete disk and while the directory is intact the disk doesn't boot, so I want to use PIP to copy a file at a time and identify which files are on the bad part of the disk. --Chuck

26 years, 1 month

free computers

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 99-04-29 22:09:30 EDT, you write: > We're tossing out old computers this week, they are scheduled to be picked > up > by the local transportation company next monday or tuesday (probably tuesday) > . > There are quite a few NDC 15" monochrome xterms. About 4 Sun ELC, 3-4 old > style sun 19" monitors, that Decrwriter III that doesnt quite work.. A > interesting color printer called a Howtek Pixelmaster (about the size of a > water cooler). A pair of Apple Imagewriters. > > Anyways, they are in the hallway near my office, in teh basement of > the computer science building. Let me know if anyone is interested, and > I can give precise directions. > uh, what part of the globe do you live on?

26 years, 1 month

Can you identify these cards?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.COM

>> I went scrounging today and found some interesting cards. A picture of >>the first one is at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/card1.jpg" and a >>picture of the second is at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/card2.jpg". >> The first one is interesting because it has a list on the right side that >>appears to be a list of memory locations and op codes. It's hard to see in >>the photo but the first column is labeled CNT. (count?). Most of the ICs >>are dated 1972. The only other markings on the card is "TERADYNE A 794" and >>"Made in USA". >Looks like a ROM built out of a diode array. I'd make a WAG that it's >a bootstrap for some computer, but I don't know what. Judging by the >content list, I'd say it's a 18-bit computer of some sort, but I don't >recognize the board form factor or the opcodes. Further insight: if you count the number of instructions listed that have the low bit set, then count the diodes in the B01 region on the board, they match up. And so on. Lots of zeroes in this particular opcode set, whatever it is! Tim.

26 years, 1 month

free computers

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

We're tossing out old computers this week, they are scheduled to be picked up by the local transportation company next monday or tuesday (probably tuesday). There are quite a few NDC 15" monochrome xterms. About 4 Sun ELC, 3-4 old style sun 19" monitors, that Decrwriter III that doesnt quite work.. A interesting color printer called a Howtek Pixelmaster (about the size of a water cooler). A pair of Apple Imagewriters. Anyways, they are in the hallway near my office, in teh basement of the computer science building. Let me know if anyone is interested, and I can give precise directions. -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

26 years, 1 month

Looking for..

by a2k＠one.net

Hey, I'm helping out a friend of mine that just got his first computer (a 386.. he's so excited about it - like a child on Christmas morning.. it's funny). Anyway, it's pretty barren. I have a few things in my basement (14.4 modem, printer, etc) but am looking for a CD-ROM (single speed is great!), maybe a 500meg HD, overdrive chip, etc... just basically anything to get him going. Thanks in advance, Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After sifting through the overwritten remaining blocks of Luke's home directory, Luke and PDP-1 sped away from /u/lars, across the surface of the Winchester riding Luke's flying read/write head. PDP-1 had Luke stop at the edge of the cylinder overlooking /usr/spool/uucp. "Unix-to-Unix Copy Program;" said PDP-1. "You will never find a more wretched hive of bugs and flamers. We must be cautious." -- DECWARS ____________________________________________________________________ | Kevin Stewart | "I am a secret | | KC8BLL ----------| Wrapped in a mystery -Milford High School | | a2k(a)one.net | Wrapped in an enigma Drama Tech Dept. | |jlennon(a)nether.net| And drizzled in some tasty chocolate stuff.| --------------------------------------------------------------------

26 years, 1 month

Lunar Module (and other) computer reference

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.COM

A good starting reference to many of the computers used in spaceflight is NASA Contractor Report 182505 Computers in Spaceflight The NASA Experience James E. Tomayko Wichita State University Wichita, Kansas It's available in hardcopy from CASI, and over the web from http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computers/Compspace.html It gives a decent overview of the hardware involved, and has references to very technical documents if you want to go into that much detail. The HAL/S programming language is covered as an appendix. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

Old CD-ROMs & free C compiler?

by clintw＠colorado.cirrus.com

> > > > >were a lot of bizarre proprietary CD-ROM interfaces. > > I have some old Hitachi CD-ROM drives. They are single speed, from memory part > > number CDR-1503S. About the area of a desktop PC, but not as high. Connect to > > the host computer via a 37-way D connector. > > Does anyone know what type of controller card is needed in the PC to use these > > drives? > > HITACHI. Sometimes "proprietary" is quite literal. I think that some > models of them were also sold by Amdek, and therefore possibly > interchangeable. I probably still have some (and drivers!). But I'm not > sure how long it will take me to find 'em. > Oooppsss.. Sorry about the blank message.... A friend of mine worked at Reference Technology developing a CD-ROM drive based on the hitachi mechanism, way before CD-ROMs were a thing. In fact, they created a custom file format (pre-pre-ISO 9660) for a shareware disk that they used as a demo. Unfortunately, the market didn't develop fast enough, and Ref. Tech. went belly up. Long story short, I MAY have an interface card in my junk at home, but I think I threw all the documentation away with the drive (a VCR sized box) several years ago. If I can find it, I'll send it to you. clint

26 years, 1 month

Old CD-ROMs & free C compiler?

by clintw＠colorado.cirrus.com

26 years, 1 month

Old CD-ROMs & free C compiler?

by mark_k＠iname.com

Hi, On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 Max Eskin wrote: > On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >Also, before the days of IDE CD-ROMs, and "Sound-Card interface", there > >were a lot of bizarre proprietary CD-ROM interfaces. > > Yes, I've even owned a huge external drive for a while, I mailed it to > someone on this list. I have some old Hitachi CD-ROM drives. They are single speed, from memory part number CDR-1503S. About the area of a desktop PC, but not as high. Connect to the host computer via a 37-way D connector. Does anyone know what type of controller card is needed in the PC to use these drives? Also, can anyone recommend a free C compiler running under MS-DOS, that can produce code capable of running on an XT type PC? I have used djgpp, but programs compiled with that require at least a 286SX. -- Mark

26 years, 1 month

How to read recalcitrant floppies?

by mark_k＠iname.com

Hi, On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 Ethan Dicks wrote: > I am attempting to back up some floppies from a project I did a few years > ago. The sets of 3.5" 1.44Mb IBM floppies have been stored in a box, in a > cool and dry room. Out of one set of 12 and one set of 15 disks, I have four > disks that have read errors that DOS won't get past, bad sectors and the > like. > ... > Are there any tools to go divining on DOS floppies that work better than > an endless succession of "R"etries? It's an all or nothing prospect; the > first disk has the install file, the remaning disks have a chopped monolithic > data file. If one disk can't be read, the whole set is fundamentally > useless. First, I take it you have tried reading the disks on different drives? If that didn't help, using the fdread package *might*, but I doubt it. You have an Amiga right? One possible solution, if you want to spend some time on this, would be to write a program to read the raw data from the disk, then MFM-decode and analyse the data and report/correct any errors. This could work if the only problems are with sector headers. Or try creating disk images using one of the various Amiga PC-disk-access packages, maybe one of those is more forgiving? (CrossDOS, XFS, MultiDOS, etc.) (Aside: since the Amiga disk controller is so versatile, it should be possible to archive "all" copy-protected PC disks using a program such as MFMWarp.) -- Mark

26 years, 1 month

Heathkit H-8 questions

by Watzman＠ibm.net

The Heathkit H-8 was made from about 1977-78 to about 1981-82. It was an 8080 computer (Z-80 boards became available later), proprietary bus [there were a very few 3rd party source cards]. It originally ran HDOS [Heath Disk Operating System], which was not compatible with anything; Heath went to CP/M around 1980-81, which required changing the memory map of the machine [it had it's system ROM in low memory]. The front panel was implemented in firmware and was octal [thank you Gordon Letwin] [who left Heath for Microsoft in 1978, after designing much of the Heath architecture and software/firmware]. The system was originally cassette based, then the H-17 was introduced [hard sectored floppies, SSSD, 100k or so], and near the very end the H-37 components [DSDD 5", based on a Western Digital controller]. It was an "ok" but unexceptional machine, inferior to the better S-100 stuff available at the time. The H-89 and its variants incorporated the same basic architecture in a very user-friendly "All-in-one" package, and with a Z-80 instead of an 8080 [but only 2 MHz]. The H-89 was among the most solid, reliable and user friendly CP/M systems available at the time and made a good, if not fast [even by the standards of the day] business system for the 1979 to 1982 time frame. Barry Watzman ---------- From: bluoval [SMTP:bluoval@mindspring.com] Sent: Saturday, April 10, 1999 2:34 AM To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Heathkit H-8 questions I saw a H-8 on eBay tonight. What year were these made? What could one do with it? From the photo it has a 16 key keypad, numbers 1-9 and the math symbols, decimal point, and 2 others i can't make out. What are those 2 keys? I'm not trying to buy it, I wouldn't know what to do with it even if i did. just curious. TIA.

26 years, 1 month

11/04 available free, in taiwan... anyone near there?

by gentry＠zk3.dec.com

As typical, contact the person in the mail message, not me. - - - - -

26 years, 1 month

IBM Optical drive questions

by mark_k＠iname.com

Hi, On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 Jason wrote: > I'm getting a couple of IBM optical drives (one internal, one external). > From the description, they have MCA controller cards. My question is: > Would there be a way to run the internal one from an ISA controller? Maybe > the question should be where can I get an ISA controller for an IBM optical > drive? There are optical drives and optical drives... (read on) > My other question is if Optical disks are re-writable? I've talked to two > people, and one of them says that Optical disks aren't re-writable, > mangeto-optical disks are. The other person said that no optical disk is > re-writable, and that only floptical disks are (isn't that a form of optical > disk?) The other person is wrong. MO disks are rewriteable, and come to think of it some other types of optical media are, including CD-RW, DVD-RAM and PD. As I understand it, flopticals are just like floppies but use a laser to assist in positioning the drive head. I wouldn't call these optical disks. (I bet they're as reliable as Windows too.) There are various types of optical disk, of which magneto-optical ("MO") disks are one. MO disks are rewritable (like 10 million times), and are about the best -- in terms of media reliability and longevity -- true random-access rewriteable removable storage there is. And the media is much cheaper than Zip, Jaz etc. disks. There are 3.5" and 5.25" MO disks. 5.25" disks are also available in write-once varieties, but the drives themselves can handle both. (In fact the write-once disks are physically almost identical to the normal ones. The drive reads a flag to see that the disk should be write-only, and the drive firmware handles preventing writes to sectors that have already been written.) Anyway, I'll elaborate on my previous comment. IBM certainly used to sell SCSI 128MB 3.5" MO drives (circa 1992?). If you are getting a pair of these, using them will be no problem, assuming you have a SCSI controller. Earlier than that, IBM sold at least one other type of optical drive, which was a WORM (write once read many) drive. As the WORM acronym suggests, disks for the 3363 are not rewritable. They hold about 200MB each. The model 3363 drive was introduced in 1987, and I picked one up recently, along with two MCA controllers. The 3363 uses a custom interface. I want to get hold of an ISA controller to use with the 3363. I found someone who has one for sale, sold as seen for US$25. Too much for me. If you are getting a couple of 3363 drives (which are big, heavy beasts), they will be more of a curiosity than anything else. They use proprietary disks, which -- if you can still get them from IBM at all -- probably cost about $90 each. I have four still-sealed ones, but I'm hanging onto them in the hope that I eventually get an ISA controller card for my 3363... Plug: check out my Amiga Magneto-Optical Drive FAQ. This contains some info on why MO drives are cool, and a fair amount of details about using them with Amiga computers and well as non-platform-specific things. The URL is http://home.freeuk.net/markk/Amiga_MO_FAQ/main.html -- Mark

26 years, 1 month

The Home Computer Museum is back again ...

by Walgen＠do.isst.fhg.de

Hi, just want to tell you that the Home Computer Museum is back after several weeks of DNS problems. try http://www.HomeComputer.de

26 years, 1 month

rt-11 (ht-11) help

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.COM

>The requirement to put in a new disk suggests that the disk is designed for >one to copy on to the new disk those things one would need in a "working" >version and the use the working copy. Unfortunately there isn't any SYSGEN >or MAKESYS or anythign that suggests this. Your floppy doesn't have all the files necessary to reconfigure your system in that way, in any event. Most likely it's a "Backup this disk for dummies" procedure that's common with many distribution media. >.R ASEMBL - starts a version of MACRO-11 >.R XBASIC - starts BASIC (again no docs but can hack a bit) >.R EDIT - gives a '*' prompt >.R DUMP - gives an octal dump >.R MACRO - on SAMPLE.MAC exits to ODT at address 000002 In early RT-11 distributions, like DOS-11, the Macro processor was separate from the actual assembly phase. I don't know why it'd be dumping out on execution, though. How much memory is in your H-11? >Very weird stuff. I think it is RT-11v2B It looks like you've got the basic RT-11 development tools of the time, then. Good! You can go to ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/decus/ and you'll find that most of the stuff on the Spring '76 RT SIG tape ought to work under V2B. Some of the stuff from later SIG tapes ought to work as well. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 1 month

Anyone have an old plotter.... found.

by edick＠idcomm.com

I see so many of these in thrift stores, etc, for around $10-15, that I pay them no attention at all. They're not particularly interesting since deskjet printers will accept HPGL also. I don't see them with an assortment of pens, as I once did, so I'd say that's the weak link. What's more, the color deskjet printers, e.g. DJ550, etc, costing about the same as the plotters, print in color, accept HPGL, and are about 10x as fast, even though they're quite slow. Third-party pens are available in art and drafting supply houses. There's a line of refillable ink pens from Kohinoor which I've found doesn't work terribly well in my somewhat larger 7595B ("E"-size) plotter, but they may have something for the little desktop plotter. The not-refillable ones seem to work fine, though. If you use the roller ball pens or the tip-wicks, they may work for you. Good luck! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 6:27 AM Subject: Re: Anyone have an old plotter.... found. >Upon the date 12:14 AM 4/29/99 -0700, Jason Willgruber said something like: >>I found a _new_ plotter (HP 7475 Color Pen Plotter). >> >>One question: >> >>Where would I be able to find replacement pens? Are they still fairly >>readily available? > >Try a drafting supply store, office supply store or one of the big chain >office supply stores such as Office Max. Check Yellow Pages under Office >Supplies or Drafting Supplies, etc. (Or call John Lovitz ;) > >HP doesn't make pens anymore but there are one or two good third-party >outfits who do. Lots of those plotters out there yet so should be no >problem finding pens for several years at least. > >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net >Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa

26 years, 1 month

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