test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Years ago, I bought two half height drives and <put them in the slot for the full sized. I used <just the single controller to drive both and it <worked with HDOS as two drives. I'd have to look <to see if I did it with twisted lines or jumpers <on the drives. I did have to file the opening a little <to take two drives. <Dwight Twisted wire is a PCism, the bulk of the works addressed either 3 or 4 drives via the select lines. That required setting up the jumpers for DS0-3. I have the prints here for one somewhere. Allison

26 years, 7 months

Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 12, 23:56, Derek Peschel wrote: > - Was the source to the MOS ever released or reverse-engineered? > It's very well documented but there are some undocumented features. > (One example came up in the discussion of the Torch Z-80 card. > It involved interrupts at power-on time, I think.) The bits that people tend to regard as "undocumented" are mostly the bits avbout how the interface to a second procvessor (The Tube (TM)) work. But there are documents that Acorn used to supply on request that describe the Tube, and the Sideways ROM protocols, etc. I have them. > How about > the source or disassembly for BASIC? There wasn't a good listing of BASIC. There were two books published by third parties, but one wasn't very good, and the other was written by someone whom Acorn knew well, and they persuaded him to drop it before many were sold. Why? Mainly because it was very specific about addresses of routines that were going to change in the next version. It would have been quite misleading in places. "The Advanced BASIC ROM User Guide" by Colin Pharo, pub. Cambridge Microcomputer Centre. "The BASIC ROM User Guide" by Mark Plumbley, pub. Adder. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 7 months

New-fangled languages (was: BASIC

by bill＠chipware.com

> > I remember when I upgraded the ROMs in my C1P > > and got a RENUM command. Ah, those were the > > days. > > There were two common tricks that renumber commands never dealt with: > > 1) storing line numbers in variables and GOTOing or GOSUBing them, > e.g., GOSUB MYSUB > > 2) computing line numbers at the time of GOTO or GOSUB, > e.g., GOTO (X+3)*35 > > Did the C1P let you do either of those tricks? I'll have to stretch my brain, as all of my stuff is behind a stack of drywall just now. Hmmm... I don't seem to remember doing either of those tricks. The Microsoft 8K BASIC in ROM was pretty simple... I'm sure that somebody will correct me if I'm wrong. Bill Sudbrink

26 years, 7 months

Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 13, 22:34, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) > You can trace links between the Atom and the Systems (Same bus, for > example). And between the Atom and the BBC micro (Some of the > non-standard parts of Atom BASIC turn up on the Beeb). The electron is > obviously related to the Beeb. But I would claim that the Arch was also a > BBC descendant. And thus the Electron is an offshoot of the main line of > machines. The Beeb video architecture is very similar to the Atom (but more modes, more colours, more resolution), the disk system is almost identical, the sideways ROM system is similar, Econet is the same, user port/VIAs are the similar, etc. But they're all rolled together on the Beeb, and there's lots more. There were a few other "specials" like the Communicators built for Reuters, looked like a Compact but had a different processor (the one that's based on a 6502 but is 16-bit), and a built-in modem. The Arc (not Arch, please :-)) was certainly built from the same philosophy as the Beeb, and had some similarities in things such as screen modes, I/O handling, OS entry points, etc. And like the Beeb, was well-documented. > > micro and the ][ grew into the ][+ though I think the BBC micro surpasses > > the ][+ in terms of capability. The Master and //e both had to deal with > > The Apple wins on hardware expandability (there are no expansion slots on > any model of Beeb). The Beeb (IMHO) wins on a more powerful BASIC, better > video system, more standard I/O ('User port, ADC, etc were all standard > on the BBC micro, and properly documented in the user manual). Both are > interesting machines. The Beeb is also several times faster, largely due to the fact that I/O is interrupt driven, and there's no polling overhead; also most I/O is properly buffered and streamed. What's wrong with the 1MHz bus for expansion? There were lots of devices that used that, including a backplane system, and lots more that fitted (sometimes in ingenious, and not always wonderful, ways) inside the case. > No definitive list, alas. I can tell you the ones I remember : > > BBC A, BBC B, BBC B+, BBC Master. Master Compact. US models of some of those > (certainly there's a US version of the B). > > Some of those had 'professional' versions, or were available as PCB only > for use in embedded systems. The Master PCB was available separately as an OEM item. There was a series of Acorn Business Machines, which were based on the B+ board, in a big case which included colour monitor, B+ board, two 5.25" drive bays, second processor, and had a separate keyboard and (for some models) a mouse. There was one with a Z80, CP/M, floppies; one with 80286, floppies, MS-DOS (or maybe it was DR-DOS), and one with a 32016, 4MB RAM, hard drive, and one floppy. That was the only one that actually survived past the launch; it became the Acorn Cambridge Workstation. There was a also a pair of Springboard cards for PCs -- ISA cards with an Arm on them. They differed only in the amount of memory, one was 1MB but I can't remember if the other was bigger or smaller (4MB comes to mind, but I might be wrong about that). They were basically a second processor for a PC -- they used the PC's I/O -- meant for development work, and provided with an editor, assembler, and a couple of compilers. They were sold by the OEM division and not very many were made. > Second processors for the BBC (not the internal ones for the master) : > 65C02, Z80, 32016, ARM 1, 80286 (never released?) > > 80816 card for the Master (other master copros?) 4MHz 65C102 (Master Turbo), 4MHz Z80 (external only), 32016 (external only, I think; Master Scientific), 80186. The Z80 wasn't a new design, it was the same old Z80 as before. The others were new designs, and the Turbo and 80186 were available either as an internal PCB, or fitted in a box like the original second processors. There was also a short-lived Master ET. It was a Master 128 case and PCB minus disk interface, minus some of the firmware, fewer standard I/O ports, and limited expansion, but with the (otherwise optional) Econet networking hardware fitted. A sort of diskless workstation. > Peripherals in 'second processor cases' : Prestel modem, teletext > adapter, GPIB interface, Econet bridge. > > Winchester (SASI) hard disk system. [Torch (IIRC) made a SCSI system as > well.] Acorn's used an Adaptec ACB400 which is definitely SCSI-1, not SASI. I think Torch's was SASI -- and it never worked very well, I seem to recall. Its protocol was sufficiently different to the Acorn standards that lots of stuff wouldn't work with it. > > - Was the source to the MOS ever released or reverse-engineered? > > Never released, and I've never seen a reverse-engineered version :-( Yes they were. I have two separate copies of the source/commentary for the MOS. They were issued at Acorn training courses, which were run for dealers and developers. There were a range of courses, and I went to one of the MOS courses run by Paul Bond (who was the major designer of the MOS). It was a fascinating course. > > It's very well documented but there are some undocumented features. > > (One example came up in the discussion of the Torch Z-80 card. > > It involved interrupts at power-on time, I think.) How about > > the source or disassembly for BASIC? Software interrupts. The Torch Z-80 does it badly wrongly, which is why it screws up several other add-ons. At power up, various service calls are offered to all the ROMs in turn, and the Torch Z80 uses one of them for an unintended purpose. it also claims one it shouldn't, instead of passing control back correctly. > > - The Proton _is_ the same as the BBC micro, right? Some Web sites > > seem to disagree on this! > > Yes. No! The Proton was a design for the successor to the Atom, and that was the design initially shown to the BBC when they started to canvas for material for what became the Microcomputer Project and the "Making The Most of The Micro" TV series. The BBC asked for, and got, several major changes, and the BBC Micro was quite a bit bigger and more complex than the Proton would have been. The proton was more like the Atom than the Beeb. > > As for finding a machine, I thought there was a place in London selling them > > new but I haven't checked yet. There was a batch of machines that turned up from the U.S. at one point, so beware that they are a different spec (video timing, mostly, but also a different ROM) and I think there was a batch came back from Germany. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 7 months

Z-100 find ?

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

I picked up a Zenith Data Systems all-in-one box from the trash a few days ago. Lovely cosmetic condition. Unfortunately there's no response on the monitor. The fan spins up so it is getting power. Other than the Heath address on the back it has no model #. It looks like the pictures I have seen of the Z-100. Do the first models of Z-100 have a model # on them ? It has a siemens fdd and a really nice FD image decal labelled Xidex. The rear sockets are labelled DCE and DTE , connected to a serial I/O daughter card, FR-1 a 34 pin socket FR-2 a40 pin which are connected to a Disk Interface daughter card and the fdd has a daughter card Disk I/O and a free hanging connector for an external floppy. The serial I/O is hard wired to another card labelled Albrektson Sound/Clock H-89 which has a lead to an external RCA connector Cassette I/O as well as a battery pak and a mini-speaker. There is a video card on the bottom. The vertical mounted motherboard has pins for 5 daughter cards and a Z-80 CPU. There's 48 k mem and an additional 16 k daughter card. Another card the same dimension is mounted behind the MB and is labelled Terminal Logic. It also has a Z-80 as well as a Motorola 6845L chip. Any Z-100 people out there ? I guess the question is do I try and ressurect it ? It has such a nice-looking KB and is in such good cosmetic shape that it would hurt to junk it. ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c(a)xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C

26 years, 7 months

mystery motherboard

by max82＠surfree.com

I heard of a person who was doing 'computer recycling' at a nearby school running into a strange motherboard with 3 386 chips and a 286. Does this sound familiar to anyone, and if I should look at this as a potential source of interesting systems? --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power

26 years, 7 months

Internet as delay line memory?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<No, capacity is limited by the total latency, isn't it? If we arranged No, it's latentcy * data rate. For example 10MBS = 10,000,000 bits per second, where if it were if it were 100,000bits second and the path length were 1 second in both cases you can see the difference. Also for the case presented the aggregate storage is path delay times SLOWEST data rate for path. If there is buffereing there is a more complex calculation but it will never be MAX data rate. Of course the possible delay length is far to variable do the dynamic routing. Allison

26 years, 7 months

FS: Compaq Portable II computer.

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, I just picked up a couple of Compaq Portable II computers that I thought I'd pass along to anyone that's interested. These are the second model and have an 8 MHz 286 CPU with one floppy drive and one (factory) 20 Mb hard drive. They're in the original travel cases and both the computers and cases are in nearly perfect conditon. The original power cord is even still in it's storage compartment. Works PERFECTLY!!! No screen burns, bad keys, etc. I'll take $50 each plus shipping from 32765. No manuals. Contact me directly if interested. Joe

26 years, 7 months

Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)

by peter＠joules.enterprise-plc.com

Sorry for the post about a machine too young for the list but it is the first of its kind in my collection. The chips seem to be from 1994 and the RiscOS (v3) splash screen also says 1994. This machine came to me as a box only having been an insurance write off because it jumped downstairs but there only seemms to superficial damage. It boots OK but the mouse which appears to be necessary in order to use the OS is missing and appears to have a proprietary connector. Can anyone tell me either if the mice are available? Alternatively is it possible either to persuade it to work with a serial mouse or to wire in a PS/2 socket in place of the original one so that I can use a PS/2 mouse? it seems to have 4M of RAM as 1 72 pin SIMM and 1 other memory board which looks like a miniature DIMM. It also has a HDD with 59 Mb used and 159Mb free so it must be about 220Mb altogether, this make windows look a bit bloated as there appear to be some apps there as well - it also seems to boot very fast compared with modern machines. Does anyone know what processor it has and how fast it is? Thanks Pete

26 years, 7 months

Internet as delay line memory?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: > > ... the other night... I remembered a wire delay line memory > > Sure, it would be abusive of the Net's resources. You'd need to contend > with the possibility of dropped packets... > > Imagine a chain of machines or routers or whatever that would simply > pass a special kind of packet to another machine, echoing and mirroring > packets back to my machine. > > ...wouldn't we create a long delay line > with large data capacity? Obviously the speed of access is nothing > like a hard drive or RAM, but it would be a neat hack, no? This very concept came up for lengthy discussion when I was in college at Ohio State. Then, we envisioned using UUCP to store and forward two weeks of data, based on the known propagation rates from node to node (since some would forward messages only after 23:00 to save on toll charges). We never implemented it, but we did have a theoretical model that probably would have worked. As you say, access times were hell, but you could store lots of data if you absorbed hard drives all over the planet. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

Univac pix

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

I've got the first few pix of my Univac online now. Here's the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/ Cheers, Bill.

26 years, 7 months

WD Chip Info

by edick＠idcomm.com

Actually, I do believe they both supported the length of ECC suitable for correction, but only the 2010 could interact properly with the 1014 to perform the correction. Why the 1014 was required in place of host-driver code, I can't say. One could set the ecc length to either 32 or 56 bits, and the latter was required for correction. I didn't figure this out until the details on the PC-based WDFMT program were published, indicating that the 1010 would support either length, though it was common knowledge that only 2010 was actually error-correction-capable. It was never clear to me how the 1014 was going to help with the correction. Apparently it became no less burdensome to effect correction in the host interface code, particularly when the scotched the whole notion of bothering with correction. I don't recall any controller actually going ahead and doing it as part of the drivers. Somebody did publish an error scrubbing app-note though. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 9:41 PM Subject: Re: WD Chip Info >> WD2010B - This is the HDC chip, similar to the 1010. Does >I wrote: >> Drop-in replacement for the 1010, with ECC. Also can support >1024 >> cylinders, helpful with the Maxtor XT1140 and Maxtor XT2190 disk drives > >Minor clarification: the chip is a drop in replacement, but if you do that, >I think the drive needs to be reformatted, since the 1010 only uses a CRC >rather then the longer ECC code.

26 years, 7 months

Internet as delay line memory?

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> This very concept came up for lengthy discussion when I was in college at >> Ohio State. I think it's one of those things that crops up now and then. We had a similar one here at work whereby we were going to expand our token ring network to create a fatter 'token doughnut' system. Implementation, sadly, was never started, but the theory was there... (it's amazing what you can achieve during boring moments at work!!) cheers Jules

26 years, 7 months

Internet as delay line memory?

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Thursday, May 13, 1999 10:16 AM, John Foust [SMTP:jfoust@threedee.com] wrote: > > To put myself to sleep the other night, I was thinking about the recent > discussions about core memory, and I remembered a wire delay line memory > I'd once disassembled as a teen, and thought about the old mercury delay > line memories, and then moved it to the Internet. > > Sure, it would be abusive of the Net's resources. You'd need to contend > with the possibility of dropped packets, which might invalidate the entire > experience. But like the "unused" CPU cycles on your PC, there is a > great deal of unused bandwidth. Not everyone's pipe is full, and these > pipes are a form of transient memory. > > Imagine a chain of machines or routers or whatever that would simply > pass a special kind of packet to another machine, echoing and mirroring > packets back to my machine. By taking advantage of the delays in > transmitting packets around the world, across fiber lines, under > the sea, up to satellites, etc. wouldn't we create a long delay line > with large data capacity? Obviously the speed of access is nothing > like a hard drive or RAM, but it would be a neat hack, no? > > - John > Clever... Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 7 months

Internet as delay line memory?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

To put myself to sleep the other night, I was thinking about the recent discussions about core memory, and I remembered a wire delay line memory I'd once disassembled as a teen, and thought about the old mercury delay line memories, and then moved it to the Internet. Sure, it would be abusive of the Net's resources. You'd need to contend with the possibility of dropped packets, which might invalidate the entire experience. But like the "unused" CPU cycles on your PC, there is a great deal of unused bandwidth. Not everyone's pipe is full, and these pipes are a form of transient memory. Imagine a chain of machines or routers or whatever that would simply pass a special kind of packet to another machine, echoing and mirroring packets back to my machine. By taking advantage of the delays in transmitting packets around the world, across fiber lines, under the sea, up to satellites, etc. wouldn't we create a long delay line with large data capacity? Obviously the speed of access is nothing like a hard drive or RAM, but it would be a neat hack, no? - John

26 years, 7 months

Dayton Hamvention

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> wrote: > Upon the date 09:55 AM 5/11/99 -0700, Marvin said something like: > > > >I haven't heard anything about people going to Dayton except for Ethan... > > Hi Ethan, Marvin and others who my be there: > I've suddenly been able to shift my skeds to come to Dayton too... Cool. > ...So, Friday I'll be lurking in the fleamarket to catch those DEC docs > and other needed bits... These days, there's not much DEC stuff. When I started going in 1982, you could find things on maybe as much as 5% of the tables. Now, it's much less than 1%. In any case, I'll be at work in Columbus on Friday. I'm only going on Saturday. Later, -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

Atari modem

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Greetings, I picked up a rather interesting 8-bit Atari system a while back. It is an Atari 130XE with 1050 floppy drive and a modem. What makes this system interesting is that it has been designed to be more portable. The 130XE's power supply, 1050's power supply, and modem, are all in a grey sheetmetal box, and the 1050 is bolted to the top. There is a large carrying handle on the front of the box, two illuminated power switches, a large unused red lamp, and an LED that is connected to the modem. On the back of the box is the power cord connector, a 7-pin DIN socket for the 130XE's power connection, a 15-pin D connector, and an unused 9-pin D connector. The telephone cable feeds through the crack between the box's lid and its side, and the power connector for the drive is fed through a hole drilled in the back. 14 pins of the 15-pin connector are wired up inside, so it looks like the modem is supposed to connect to the "Expansion" connector on the back of the 130XE (14-pin edge connector). Of course, whatever cable connected the computer to the modem has been lost (it was a Salvation Army find, so I was extremely lucky to get the power cable and SIO cable). The major part on the modem board is an NEC D80C48C. The board has the Atari logo etched on it. There appears to be only 8 actual connections to the board. Does anyone know what kind of modem this is? And which contacts should be wired to which contacts on the Expansion port? Thanks. -- Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/

26 years, 7 months

Upcoming Haul: DEC Gear and Documentation

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Looks like various LSI 11s, spare parts, boards, docs. Peripherals include >9 track and (likely) DAT tape, RD53 and RD54 drives, some SMD drives. Vaxes >are of the Microvax III type. Full set of VMS docs, version 4.x. Also an >optical disk drive, unknown make/model, WORM type, about 18" platters. A >total of about 4-5 systems. And where is this happening? Need any help? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 7 months

*** Possible Rare DEC Cards Available ***

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>These are of the "Flip Chip" variety, and if I recollect correctly, they >may be cards from a STRAIGHT 8!!!!! Some of them certainly are. Others look to be from -6's or older -10's. >All cards listed are in neither the DEC field guide or Doug Jones' Omnibus >module guide. Mainly because most are not Q-bus, Omnibus, nor Unibus boards. I'll try to remedy that :-). >B014 Are you sure it's not a B104? That's 4 inverters. My memory is real hazy on low-numbered B modules, but most are from -6's or -10's. >G180 Low density R/W amp for RK04 DECPACK drive. >G208 PDP-8 Inhibit driver - replaces G205 >G603 Memory selection matrix for PDP-6 >G808 Power supply control for PDP/8 >G938 RK05J Head Position Servo >M051 Don't recognize this one. >M111 Totem-Pole NAND gates >M113 More Totem-Pole NAND gates >M206 Don't recognize this one >M302 Two one-shots >M3118YA This is a CXA16, a 16-line serial async multiplexer as found in some DEC terminal servers. >M506 Bus receivers, I think. >M624 Bus drivers for PDP-8's and -15's. >M7164 First half of a KDA50 >M8956 >M8957 These two are out of a TU78 formatter. >R002 Common Cathode diode network >R205 I'm pretty sure this is a register module from a PDP-8 >R210 PDP8 Accumulator >R211 MB, PC, MA for PDP8 >R220 3-bit SR for PDP-8 >R405 PDP-8 clock module >R650 Don't recognize it [General note: S modules are generally R modules with clamp loads] >S111 5 mA clamp version of R111 >S181 DC Carry Chain, 6 diode gates and inverter from PDP-8 >S202 5mA clamp version of R202 >S203 5mA clamp version of R203 >S603 5mA clamp version of R603 >W026 PDP-8 connector card >W103 I think some kind of bus transceiver from a PDP-10. >W640 3 pulse converters >W707 Book says "Teletype Transmitter, 8 bit, 2 unit stop code only". I think from a PDP-10. >W998 Blank piece of vectorboard, used for custom circuits. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

VAXStation 2000 stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Standalone Backup I loaded VMS 5.5 and the Mandatory Update on to the < drive. I want to bring VMS up to v5.5.2, but do not know whether I < need load both v5.5.1 and then v5.5.2 or whether just v5.5.2 is enough. < I presume that this is done as an Update using VMSINSTAL. Correct? < < - don Yes. Why do you require VMS5.5-2? MV2000 with 5.5 on it if you do the VMStailor correctly should leave about 100,000 or so free blocks (block=512bytes) on a RD54. The thing to attack is the libraries (there are several for most of the major layerd languages and they are BIG). Without tailor and with DECwindows you will have around 40-60,000 blocks free. Even at that it's still useful! Hint, two VS2000s networked and one with trimmed libraries(any anything else) work real well as one can use the net to make up for the missing stuff. With the right cable a MV2000 can also power and talk to a second RD52/53/54 with plenty of space then available. Allison

26 years, 7 months

Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted

by roblwill＠usaor.net

When I had cleaned out my TRS-80 (was sitting on floor in basement when septic tank backed up), I used a 40lb paint sprayer (air), with a cleaning nozzle on it. I put the suction tube into a bottle of Windex, and it worked great. I rinsed them by swishing them in a tub of warm water. To dry the board, a dish rack and old hairdryer (hood type)with the heat off, work wonders. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted >On Tue, 11 May 1999 allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote: > >> On Tue, 11 May 1999, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: >> >> > Thanks to everyone who offered advice; something I was thinking >> > was to use warm water, and some dishwashing liquid. Does that >> > seem safe? >> >> Maybe, maybe not, depends. >> >> Why is it that most of the manufactueres used something like if not a real >> dishwasher that every one is scared off here? > >Good question! The only circuit cards that I would have any hesitation >about would be those with pots/trimpots and perhaps variable capacitors >installed. The possible problem there being getting them really dry. > > - don > >> My experience is with more than several hundred s100, multibus, Qbus, >> Omnibus and misc non-bus cards over 20 years of doing this it's never been >> a problem other than to insure the water is completely dried off the >> board. This does not include my expereince with marine equipment that has >> had a swim in salt water (hint salt eats boards!). >> >> > I'll leave the corestacks alone (well, I'll use a soft brush to >> > remove the dust from the *outside* of the 'sandwich'). >> >> The core stacks themselves if there were even a hint of something nasty >> on them they'd get washed carefully, it's the fine wire I worry about. >> Generally the sense and driver boards are ok to machine wash. >> >> Allison >> >> >> > >

26 years, 7 months

No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ?

by clintw＠colorado.cirrus.com

> > > >Thing is, I've dealt with a number of 'professional' archivists who > > >couldn't/wouldn't find docs for me. Either they'd didn't know if they had > > >them, or they couldn't easily get to them, or they were too valuable to > > >look at (which begs the question as to why on earth they need to be kept > > >if they aren't going to be used as a source of information). > > > > Indeed if they were "professional" then they would be accomodating to get > > the so-called "too valuable to look at" docs in a form which could be > > looked at by folks like us or other types of researchers. > > Agreed. For most documents produced in the last 200 years, the important > feature is the information that they contain, not the paper/ink that they > were produced with. So looking at a good copy would be equally useful. > > I can fully understand that making copies can damage documents. So why > don't they make 1 good copy using whatever technique causes the least > damage and then treat that as a semi-raare document that can be inspected > carefully by interested people? If it gets damaged (through excessive > copying, perhaps), then they could make one more copy of the original. But if the original is damaged in some way by making the copy (the pages may crumble just in handling), shouldn't the original be saved with the hope that a method of duplicating that doesn't destroy the original with be found in the next few years? Also, if the pages fall apart with with handling, it may not be possible to make a copy at all. Proposal for copying really OLD documents (I get a royalty if someone does this and it works!) 1) Develop a machine that performs a CAT scan of the document without opening it at very high resolution. 2) process the high resolution 3D images captured to determine the ink patterns on each page. 3) OCR the individual pages to recreate the original text Simple, Right? clint

26 years, 7 months

*** Possible Rare DEC Cards Available ***

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Gang: I'm on a semi-yearly business trip to Ottawa, Ontario. I stopped in this evening at the friendly local computer recycler. Looks like I might have hit a jackpot in regard to many pounds of old DEC cards. These are of the "Flip Chip" variety, and if I recollect correctly, they may be cards from a STRAIGHT 8!!!!! The machine is nowhere in sight, as they are a scrap metal place it was like chopped up over the last couple of weeks. Here is a list of the cards. Those in the know, can you advise me and others whether these are of interest. I had the owner put the box aside until I call him back. Total is about 30 pounds of cards. The list contains a sample only. There are, in some cases, 5-6 cards of each type. There are some Q bus and Unibus cards listed too, can you identify them? All cards listed are in neither the DEC field guide or Doug Jones' Omnibus module guide. Here's the list: B014 G180 G208 G603 G808 G808 G938 M051 M111 M113 M206 M302 M3106 4 LINE MUX M3118YA M3118YA M506 M506 M624 M7164 M7270 LSI-11/02 CPU M7608 2-4 MB RAM M7819 8 PORT SERIAL I/O M7942 VT72 BOOT M7946 RX01 CONTROLLER M8029 RX02 CONTROLLER M8029 RX02 CONTROLLER M8203 RS449 WITH MODEM M8956 M8956 M8957 M8957 R002 R205 R210 R210 R211 R220 R220 R405 R650 R650 S111 S181 S202 S203 S603 W026 W103 W640 W707 W998 If these cards are indeed rare, or of value to anybody on the list, LET ME KNOW OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS, so I can pick them up and hold them for you, for shipping and my out-of-pocket costs, of course. Please post to the list, and email me directly, Kevin

26 years, 7 months

BASIC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<678 PRINT "HELLO" <792 GOTO 678 < <is as good as < <1 PRINT "HELLO" <2 GOTO 1 < <Was this always the case? Yes! I started with Dartmuth basic on a GE tymeshare system in '68. Later the various basics used on DEC PDP-8s. MITS BASIC (ALTAIR), Processor Tech 5k basic, LLLbasic, Tiny basic, Nibble, NS* basic all required line numbers for every line and by default assending order. The FIRST basic I'd seen with out line numbers for every line was Cbasic. 1 print "hello" Goto 1 The first language I'd seen that didn't have that requirement was Fortran on the 8I. Allison <--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) < http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Powe <

26 years, 7 months

VAXStation 2000 stuff

by donm＠cts.com

A few days ago, I undertook to install a Maxtor XT2190 (that had previously been used in a PC running DOS) in my VAXStation 2000. I brought up T 70 and, to my relief and joy, it scanned the disk and declared it an RD54! The relief came since I was not at all sure that I could come up with all of the data that T 70 requires when it goes into query mode. Is there a program that can extract that data from a 'real' RD54? At any rate, the format proceeded smoothly and with the help of Standalone Backup I loaded VMS 5.5 and the Mandatory Update on to the drive. I want to bring VMS up to v5.5.2, but do not know whether I need load both v5.5.1 and then v5.5.2 or whether just v5.5.2 is enough. I presume that this is done as an Update using VMSINSTAL. Correct? - don

26 years, 7 months

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