>> Runs AIX, based on the Power2 Processor (a PPC varient, or maybe it came
>> out before the PPC).
>
> Very similar, but the PowerPC has much of the good floating point
> hardware stripped out. Power2 has very good floating point performance -
> probably the best of any microprocessor ever made until very recently.
I'll second that. Not too long ago we were looking for a replacement for our
RS/6000 models 320 and 375. The only RS/6000 of a sesible size and price with
comparable floating point performance was the model 397. Why? It still used a
Power2SC processor. All the more modern ones use PPC and it slows, er, shows!
(we bought Sun in the end. With luck I'll get the 375 or both 320s. I don't
think I'll get all 3 machines :-( )
Philip
--- LordTyran <a2k(a)one.net> wrote:
> You burned your own ROMs? What for?
>
According to one of the Sun 3/60 pages, different ROMs were installed in
various units, depending on what the bootstrap needs were (boot from tape,
CD, with framebuffer, without, etc.). I don't have that information handy,
but since I was assembling a 3/60 from several parts (CPU, external shoebox
with 150Mb SCSI tape, 200Mb SCSI disk, no CD), I wanted to make sure that
the ROMs I had would work with my configuration. Starting an intact 3/60
is not that complicated. I'm essentially building one from scratch.
-ethan
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
There have, in recent years come to be other manufacturers offering the
PALCE version of the popular LATTICE GAL's. Cypress is, indeed, among them.
As for the feedback, if you use pins 1 or 11 as something other than CLOCK
or /OE, as they were used in the 16-series PALs, then the input path from
them preempted the feedback from these end macrocells. I wouldn't remember
that, except that PALASM slapped my wrist for it a couple of times early in
my experience with them, so, like the dog who once pee'd on the electric
fence, I remember that. There are other little "gotchas" with the various
versions of these parts.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: chips
>On Jun 28, 17:41, Richard Erlacher wrote:
>> Subject: Re: chips
>> SInce these are electrically eraseable it's of no consequence what the
>> previous program was. These parts can be viewed as a relplacement for
>the
>> entire 16xN series where x=L or R and N ranges from 4 to 8. They can
>> effectively emulate/replace 16L8, 16R4, 16R6 and 16R8 with a few
>exceptions.
>> The macrocells associated with pins 19 and 12 have no feedback path of
>their
>> own, i.e. it must be via the adjacent macrocell. The data book (these
>are
>> AMD/Vantis parts) for the Lattice GAL parts will explain it adequately if
>> you can't lay hands on an AMD databook.
>
>They're not necessarily AMD; they could be Cypress parts, or one of a few
>other manufacturers. Unfortunately, not all use the same erase or
>programming algorithms (Lattice, National Semiconductor, and SGS Thomson
> use one algorithm; AMD, Texas, Cypress, Altera and ICT use others).
>
>Why do you say that pins 12 and 19 have no feedback path of their own?
> They do in my data sheets...
>
>--
>
>Pete Peter Turnbull
> Dept. of Computer Science
> University of York
--- blstuart(a)bellsouth.net wrote:
> In message <199906271535.AA28999(a)world.std.com>, Allison J Parent writes:
> >BI is open but, was designed for high speed and multiple processesors.
> >The bus requires a chipset to communucate over it and while it was supposed
> >ot be widely available it was never widely adopted.
>
> It was open? I could swear I remember a really big stink in
> the DEC press when the BI was introduced. Of course, this
> wouldn't be the first time bit-rot affected my historical
> claims.
It was licensed. I worked for a "third-party vendor" back in those days. We
were denied a license in 1984 when we first applied (when it would have done
some good) and were granted one in 1989, long after the VAX-BI was relevant.
We sold a handful of boards, only part of our prototype batch (compared with
hundreds of Q-bus boards and a couple thousand UNIBUS boards).
Because DEC never really opened up the licensing program until later (unless
you made a board that they didn't care about, then it was easy), the market
never really took off for them. Once the VAX-4000 line came out, it was
easier and cheaper to buy a couple of 4000's to replace aging 11/7xx and
other mid-range VAXen than it was to jump up to a 6xxx or 8700/88xx. We
had more UNIBUS->Q-bus upgrade sales than anything->VAXBI.
I still have most of that first run of board. If I ever have far too much
time on my hands, I'll write some new code for it - 68010 @ 10Mhz, Z8530 SIO,
2Mb RAM, 64kb ROM, DMA interface, timer. I suppose I could turn it into an
intellegent PPP interface or make it do Localtalk (with a change in line
drivers)
-ethan
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
<< Apologies if this was posted twice... >>
Gang -
I know they're highly sought-after, but I'd really love to snag an
APL-capable IBM 5100 and thought I'd throw the question open...
There's something about those systems I always liked (even though I
didn't use one more than a couple of times in high school.) Is there any
chance that I might be able to tempt one of you elusive 5100 owners with
some combination of the following?
> DEC PDP-8/L
> Teletype ASR-33
Apple Macintosh Portable (with case)
> NeXTstation Turbo Color (minus monitor and sound box)
> HP 85 with a variety of ROM drawers
> HP 9825A with 8" floppy drive
>
There'd be some shipping issues, but I'd even be open to parting
with an IBM 1130 (missing keyboard, power supply and drum disk.)
Any interest?
> -- Tony Eros
Mid-Atlantic Computer History Museum
<KIM bus - used on the KIM believe it or not
also the SYM-1!
<The book also includes a few x to S-100 translator designs.
KIM to s100 would be useful.
<VAX BI - hmm, that nomenclature doesn't look right, but you may
< remember this move by DEC to use a non-open bus design
BI is open but, was designed for high speed and multiple processesors.
The bus requires a chipset to communucate over it and while it was supposed
ot be widely available it was never widely adopted.
There was also CI (cluster interconnect) for multiple vaxen and storage.
Allison
anyone on the list interested in this equipment ? contact the seller direct.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Stechmann [mailto:estechmann@abivest.com]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 7:29 AM
To: John R. Keys Jr.
Cc: estechmann(a)abivest.com
Subject: Re: Vintage computers
John,
Well, here's a list put together last night. Some of these are in a
storage
unit and I didn't get over there to take inventory. As a result, the
list
might be incomplete, but should give you an idea:
1 - Amiga 500: w/ 'Insider' (1 MB) add-on. Hard disk & color monitor.
Books and software.
2 - Atari 512(?): 1 w/ Hard disk, ext. floppy, 2 or 3 monitors (1
color,
as I recall). Books and software.
3 - Zenith(/Heathkit?) Z-89: These machines can run CP/M or MSDOS.
Each
has both an Intel 8085 and an 8088, I believe. Two are "lowboys"
with
dual floppies and detached monitors. The other is an "all-in-one"
with
a hard disk and a floppy. The monitors are monochrome. They came
from
a business, and have appropriate software (I don't remember just
what and it's packed away) Books and software.
1 - Zenith(/Heathkit) Z-19(?): This is an "all-in-one" Z-80 CP/M
machine.
It has an external dual floppy drive and an external 8-inch
floppy.
Books and software.
1 - Zenith laptop: This needs a battery. I think this is an 8088
system.
It has a hard drive and 3.5" floppy.
A couple of Epson printers.
Assorted spare and salvaged parts for the various machines.
Is there anything of interest to you or others?
Eric
--
Eric Stechmann Direct: +1 (651) 234-1217
Software Critter Fax: +1 (651) 490-1484
American Biosystems, Inc. E-mail: estechmann(a)abivest.com
20 Yorkton Court URL: www.abivest.com
St.Paul MN 55117
The program said "Requires Windows 9* or better" so I bought a
Macintosh.
In a message dated 6/28/99 11:57:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk writes:
> Greetings everyone on both lists:
Will some kind denizen of this listserv please enlighten me concerning the
other list?
Am I missing half the fun???
TIA
Glen Goodwin
0/0
On Jun 28, 17:41, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> Subject: Re: chips
> SInce these are electrically eraseable it's of no consequence what the
> previous program was. These parts can be viewed as a relplacement for
the
> entire 16xN series where x=L or R and N ranges from 4 to 8. They can
> effectively emulate/replace 16L8, 16R4, 16R6 and 16R8 with a few
exceptions.
> The macrocells associated with pins 19 and 12 have no feedback path of
their
> own, i.e. it must be via the adjacent macrocell. The data book (these
are
> AMD/Vantis parts) for the Lattice GAL parts will explain it adequately if
> you can't lay hands on an AMD databook.
They're not necessarily AMD; they could be Cypress parts, or one of a few
other manufacturers. Unfortunately, not all use the same erase or
programming algorithms (Lattice, National Semiconductor, and SGS Thomson
use one algorithm; AMD, Texas, Cypress, Altera and ICT use others).
Why do you say that pins 12 and 19 have no feedback path of their own?
They do in my data sheets...
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Note: some of the links referenced are broken at present...under
construction and all that.
Parallax Inc. and Dr. Dobb's Journal proudly present...
The Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
October 2nd & 3rd
Santa Clara Convention Center
Santa Clara, California
www.vintage.org
For the third year in a row, the Vintage Computer Festival is back to
thrill and amaze you with the history of one of the greatest inventions
in all of mankind, the computer!
This year:
* More great speakers!
* More great exhibits!
* More great vendors with Cool Stuff to sell!
* More fun games and contests, including the Nerd Trivia Challenge!
* Tour The Computer Museum History Center!
* And of course, FREE STUFF!!
In short, plenty of stuff to indulge all your SENSES:
HEAR the speakers! SEE vintage computers! TOUCH them too!
SMELL their electronics! But please don't TASTE them!
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the preservation of 'obsolete' computers by allowing attendees to
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Register Early and $AVE!
Register by June 30 and pay only $15 per person (or $20 per person
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Kids 17 and under are admitted free, and as always, parking is free
too!
To pre-register, send a check or money order to:
Vintage Computer Festival
4275 Rosewood Drive #29-161
Pleasanton, California 94588
Or visit the VCF website for more information and a handy registration
form ready to print (http://www.vintage.org/vcf/register.htm).
The Speakers
Horst Zuse
Horst, the eldest son of early digital computer pioneer Konrad Zuse,
will be giving a lecture on his late father's machines and will
focus on the computer businesses that Konrad later founded to market
his ideas.
Jon Titus
Who can forget one of the earliest of kit microcomputers, the Mark-8?
Jon designed the Mark-8 around Intel's 8008 microprocessor and wrote
a construction article which appeared in the July 1974 issue of
Radio Electronics.
Todd Fischer
Todd bought the assets of IMSAI after their bankruptcy and continued
to manufacture and sell IMSAI products under the Fischer-Frietas
Corporation. Todd consulted with MGM for the movie _War Games_ and,
as a treat, will be bringing along for show and tell the actual IMSAI
8080 computer that co-starred in the film.
Stan Veit
Stan is an early chronicler of the microcomputer revolution, and also
a participant. Stan started one of America's first computer stores in
New York, and in the process forged relationships with some of today's
revered pioneers, including Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, whom he
shared a booth with at the first West Coast Computer Faire where the
Apple ][ was debuted to the world.
Jim Willing
Our admired and beloved VCF Celebrity, Jim will wax philosophic on
various themes of stupendous relevance.
Eugene Kim
Eugene is a writer for Dr. Dobb's Journal (a VCF sponsor!) and will
be giving a lecture on the history of free software, a very relevant
topic considering the free-software movement is in full force in
today's computing arena as evidenced by the escalating adoption of
GNU/Linux.
Curt Vendel
Curt is the founder of the Atari Historical Society (check out his
great website at http://www.atari-history.com) and has amassed an
amazing collection of Atari artifacts and company history, including
some one-of-a-kind Atari prototypes. Curt will be bringing along
some of these prototypes for show and tell.
Roger Sinasohn
Roger is an avid collector of early portable computers and will be
giving a talk on the history of the Kyocera 85, a.k.a. the Tandy
Model 100, a.k.a. the Olivetti M10, a.k.a. the NEC PC-8201A.
Doug Salot
Doug's research has uncovered what he believes to be the first
"personal computer". Forget the Apple ][, the Altair or even the
Alto. Doug's pick as first PC goes all the way back to the 1950's.
Designed by Edmund Berkeley, an unsung hero of computer history,
Doug intends to win Berkeley the prominance and praise that he feels
is much deserved by this virtually unknown computer visionary.
Plus!
Workshops by Parallax on their amazing little BASIC Stamp. Get
a preview of this cool little device by visiting their website
at http://www.parallaxinc.com.
More speakers to be announced soon! Check the VCF website for
updates.
The Vintage Computer Faire and Exhibition
This year, the Vintage Computer Festival exhibit will feature the
exhibits of individual collectors, all vying to win first, second
or third place in eleven categories, plus the coveted "Best of Show"
award. The winner of the "Best of Show" ribbon will also win
fabulous prizes.
This year, we want YOU to exhibit the pride of your collection.
What better way to demonstrate your enthusiasm for your hobby than
to be an exhibitor at the Vintage Computer Festival.
Exhibitor information can be found on the Vintage Computer Festival
website (http://www.vintage.org/vcf/exhibit.htm).
The Vintage Computer Flea Market
Every year the best deals on vintage computer items can be found
at the Vintage Computer Flea Market. Here are only a few of the
amazing items sold at last year's flea market:
* Apple 1 (no, we're NOT kidding!)
* SWTPc 6800
* A rare computer by "the digital group"
* Morrow Decision 1 (S-100)
* California Computer Systems (S-100)
* Apple Lisa 2
* And much, much more!!
If you've got old computer stuff that you'd like to sell, there's
no better place than the Vintage Computer Flea Market at the
Vintage Computer Festival. Please visit our website for rates
and regulations (http://www.vintage.org/vcf/vendor.htm).
The Nerd Trivia Challenge!
Hey trivia fans! Think you got what it takes to survive the Nerd
Trivia Challenge? If you qualify, you'll be pitted against two
other players in a battle to determine who is the undisputed master
of computer history trivia. Answer the most questions correctly
and you could walk away with $50 in cash plus some other nifty prizes.
Lightweights need not apply, this contest is geared towards the
serious computer history enthusiast. For contest rules please visit
http://www.vintage.org/vcf/ntc.htm.
Tour The Computer Museum History Center!
The Computer Museum History Center boasts the largest collection
of historic computer artifacts in the world. Their collection
includes rare, one-of-a-kind computers and artifacts that date
back to the early part of the century and beyond.
A tour of the History Center's "Visible Storage" warehouse will
be organized on Sunday, October 3. Tickets are limited and so
advanced registration is recommended.
FYI: The History Center is on the move, and is thrilled to announce
plans to build a permanent museum to be dedicated by 2007. You
can help the History Center achieve its goal by becoming a member.
Information about becoming a member of the History Center can be
found at http://www.computer-history.org.
Meet Fellow Computer Collectors!
The VCF is the premier gathering for collectors of vintage computers.
What better way to enjoy your hobby than by meeting other like-minded
individuals to share stories and information about your computer
collection. Register now! http://www.vintage.org/vcf/register.htm
Visit our Sponsors!
Without our sponsors, the Vintage Computer Festival could not be
a reality. It is our wonderful sponsors that enabled us to bring
you the Vintage Computer Festival year after year. Demonstrate
your appreciation by visiting them on the web:
Parallax, Inc.
http://www.parallaxinc.com
Parallax manufactures the BASIC Stamp, a versatile
microcontroller with a built-in BASIC language that is
suitable for most any electronics and computer hobbyist
project.
Dr. Dobb's Journal
http://www.ddj.com
Dr. Dobb's Journal is the oldest continually running
microcomputer journal, in existence since 1975. It
features monthly articles and columns geared towards
the computer programming professional.
EOF
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
I grabbed, out of a pile of various PC clones being
trashed, a PC's Limited Turbo PC whose serial
number sticker says it was manufactured in Sept.
1986. Could this be one of the machines actually
assembled in Mr. Dells college dorm room?
Bill
I'm definately interested in these manuals. The shipping would be to ma zip
code 01581
Ron
----------
>From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)netwiz.net>
>To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Subject: Bliss, $5
>Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999, 8:21 AM
>
> My wife is clearing out some old manuals, first up is a four volume set of
> Bliss stuff from DEC. Bliss primer vol 1, 2, and 3, plus some kind of
> Digital Bliss reference or something. The whole jolly group, $5 and postage.
>
> please email me directly, not the whole list.
>
>
>
>
>The Bliss books lasted less than 3 minutes. Sorry to those who now lack
>Bliss, but you missed it. ;)
I'd like to point out that the Bliss compilers, and the documentation,
are now in the "freely distributable" category. See
ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms/fileserv/
for "bliss-article-ps.zip" and "bliss-intro.zip" for the documentation.
Tim.
Today a friend of mine gave me a TRS-80 Daisywheel printer.. this sucker
is HUGE, really heavy, loud, and fairly fast. I got 5 daisy wheels and 23
ribbons (!!). Some seem to be dried up but begin to print darker and
darker the longer they're run.. anybody know how I can rejuvinate (sp??)
the cartridges?
Thanks,
Kevin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!"
"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..."
-- BOFH #3
SInce these are electrically eraseable it's of no consequence what the
previous program was. These parts can be viewed as a relplacement for the
entire 16xN series where x=L or R and N ranges from 4 to 8. They can
effectively emulate/replace 16L8, 16R4, 16R6 and 16R8 with a few exceptions.
The macrocells associated with pins 19 and 12 have no feedback path of their
own, i.e. it must be via the adjacent macrocell. The data book (these are
AMD/Vantis parts) for the Lattice GAL parts will explain it adequately if
you can't lay hands on an AMD databook.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: chips
>>
>> I found some 20 pin DIP chips, 8 chips in a plastic chip tube. I have no
>> idea what they are, so i though i'd mention it here. maybe someone can
>> use these.
>>
>> PALCE16V8H-15
>> PC/4 9545ABA L
>
>They're PALs. The number can be decoded as follows :
>
>16 - 16 inputs to the 'AND' matrix
>V - 'Versatile'. Each output comes from a configurable block that allows
>it to be either a normal output or a flip-flop
>8 - 8 outputs
>
>What they are, and if they're useful, depends on whether they've been
>programmed, and if so, with what.
>
>-tony
>
I found some 20 pin DIP chips, 8 chips in a plastic chip tube. I have no
idea what they are, so i though i'd mention it here. maybe someone can
use these.
PALCE16V8H-15
PC/4 9545ABA L
-Lawrence LeMay
These parts aren't PAL chips FOR a specific application. They're about
10-year-old electrically eraseable and reprogrammable GAL (generic arraly
logic) parts, intended to become lower-cost replacements for the bipolar
PALs. In the latter purpose they have been quite successful, in that I
seldom even see a bipolar part in boards less than 15 years old. The
advantage, of course, is that these have a more flexible architecture and
variable macrocell design than the original PALs, say, from MMI, had. Of
course there are only a few of them that are asynchronous, and those,
typically, are just copies of the 20RA10 in more current technology.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay West <jlwest(a)tseinc.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: chips
>I haven't looked up the numbers, but these almost sound like PAL chips for
>the Digiboard PC/x boards. There is a 4 port model (PC/4) that is actually
a
>lobotomized 8 port card.
>
>Jay West
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu>
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 4:06 PM
>Subject: chips
>
>
>>I found some 20 pin DIP chips, 8 chips in a plastic chip tube. I have no
>>idea what they are, so i though i'd mention it here. maybe someone can
>>use these.
>>
>> PALCE16V8H-15
>> PC/4 9545ABA L
>>
>>-Lawrence LeMay
>>
>
Gang -
I know they're highly sought-after, but I'd really love to snag an
APL-capable IBM 5100 and thought I'd throw the question open...
There's something about those systems I always liked (even though I
didn't use one more than a couple of times in high school.) Is there any
chance that I might be able to tempt one of you elusive 5100 owners with
some combination of the following?
> DEC PDP-8/L
> Teletype ASR-33
Apple Macintosh Portable (with case)
> NeXTstation Turbo Color (minus monitor and sound box)
> HP 85 with a variety of ROM drawers
> HP 9825A with 8" floppy drive
>
There'd be some shipping issues, but I'd even be open to parting
with an IBM 1130 (missing keyboard, power supply and drum disk.)
Any interest?
> -- Tony Eros
Mid-Atlantic Computer History Museum
I haven't looked up the numbers, but these almost sound like PAL chips for
the Digiboard PC/x boards. There is a 4 port model (PC/4) that is actually a
lobotomized 8 port card.
Jay West
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 4:06 PM
Subject: chips
>I found some 20 pin DIP chips, 8 chips in a plastic chip tube. I have no
>idea what they are, so i though i'd mention it here. maybe someone can
>use these.
>
> PALCE16V8H-15
> PC/4 9545ABA L
>
>-Lawrence LeMay
>
On 24 Jun 99 at 18:52, Tony Duell wrote:
> Yes, it is/was. Not sure if it was really rubber, but it was some
> flexible material, and it does go sticking after a number of years. The
> problem (beyond clogging the type cylinder) is that if the stud on 180540
> that 180502 goes on to is exposed, it will damage the surface of the type
> cylinder.
>
> I wonder if you could cast one using that stuff that classic car
> restorers use to make rubber parts [an aside : Anyone know where to get
> that in the UK?]. Making the mould would be fairly easy, I think.
A well known brand name is Flexane. Try
http://www.frost.co.uk/016frost.html (this is an orphaned frame...)
or have a look at the classifieds in Practical Classics. Woolies in
East Anglia are always very helpful.
I also found a spec sheet at
http://www.netherlandrubber.com/adhesive/mainrepr/flexspec.html.
Phil
**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester
Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk
Here's an interesting announcement from the British Science Museum that
might interest some of the folks in the UK (Tony, now you can get a job!)
OPERATE THE BABY COMPUTER
Would you like to work on the rebuilt 'Baby' computer? This rebuild
of the original which ran for the first time on 21 June 1948 is on
display in the Futures gallery at the Museum of Science and Industry
in Manchester. The Museum needs help to keep the computer in
working order and to demonstrate it to visitors.
You should have some experience in and knowledge of electronics. An
interest in the history of computing would be desirable. You should
also be available once during the week for training and, if possible,
at the weekends for demonstrations.
You will join the Museum's volunteer programme and will receive
training on the computer's operation and maintenance, on its
background history and on talking about the computer to Museum
visitors.
The Museum is the only place where you can have this opportunity to
work with the first computer. You will be able to learn from the
people who rebuilt the computer and benefit from the experience of
explaining it to visitors.
If you are interested in helping, please contact Jenny Wetton at the
Museum, telephone 0161-832-2244, or email: j.wetton(a)msim.org.uk
---
What's funny is the state in the second to last paragraph:
"The Museum is the only place where you can have this opportunity to
work with the first computer."
Konrad Zuse might have a problem with this.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 04/22/99]
Ack! How could I miss a discussion of the BI bus? I'd better pay a bit
more attention when I'm glancing through the subject lines...
> It was open for a minimal definition of the word open.
> DEC owned the chip set and protocol and would sell you the chip set
> if your board was not a competitor to a DEC board.
I can vouch for this. The company I used to work for did a couple of
VAXBI interface boards: a quad IEEE-488 board and an interface to a
custom shared memory. DEC had to be convinced where product was
complementary before it gave you the right to buy chips.
> A number of outfits purchased the older lowest priced DEC board
> available to pull the chips for the BI bus to make disk controllers
> and such since DEC wasn't going to let anyone reverse engineer the set
> without a major patent fight.
There was a memory company that reverse engineered the BI bus, at least
enough to build memory cards. Clearpoint, perhaps? I don't recall which.
IIRC, they were bought by an I/O company (Emulex, maybe?) primarily to
gain access to their reverse-engineered BI chip.
> DEC cut it's own throat on this one and the BI bus never took hold.
There's also the fact that for the average bus transaction it really
wasn't any faster than the UNIBUS. You had to _always_ do
octaword transactions to outperform the UNIBUS (at least, the theoretical
max of the UNIBUS; and by the time the VAXBI appeared, it was starting to
be possible to get the theoretical max out of the UNIBUS. I once did a
processor module that did the UNIBUS mapping during the settle(?) (the one that
was after the deskew time) time; once that 75ns was up, the processor module
knew that the adders had had enough time to map the address and didn't need to
add any extra delay for the mapping. The processor module could
support a J-11 running full bore while simultaneously outperforming the
PDP-11/84 on DMA throughput. And it looked enough like a PDP-11/84 to
run RSX-11 out of the box).
> who left DEC around the time of the BI bus release... and has NO
> proprietary data on 'em.
I've still got a couple of copies of the VAXBI manual.
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
Actually, my understanding was that at least one of the 1st PC's limited
machines were unique: 386PC's design using multiple megabytes of *static*
memory to keep up with the *blazing* 386-16 then in use.
--- James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com> wrote:
> At 09:25 PM 6/26/99 -0400, Max Eskin wrote:
> >Hi,
> >I'd like to know about the various famous, complete local bus standards.
> >I've heard of:
> >ISA
>
> Posibus and Negibus from the pre-Omnibus PDP-8 series machines...
I thought about adding those, but I wasn't sure they qualified as local
busses, especially if you have a DW08 bus converter on your machine.
-ethan
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