test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by aek＠spies.com

> I'm looking for any information I can find on the Ciprico Rimfire 3200 VME > SMD controller, and ideally drivers for it to run under SunOS 4.1 www.spies.com/aek/pdf/ciprico (manuals) www.spies.com/aek/CIPRICO.TAR (drivers)

24 years

A Grand Tour

by dogas＠bellsouth.net

I'm back from my trip to Pittsburgh Pa. While there, I called around but couldn't pick up a good lead on any old computers in the area other than the 1) Goodwill Computer Center in South Side and online at http://www.goodwillpitt.org/ and during 2) an annual Garbage Day. ;) The Goodwill there actually had a cool small historical display along one wall wtih several old computers (and stats) including a Commodore Pet 2001, a TRS-80 Model 1&EI, a Apple 2e, a TI99/4&EI, a IBM PC... These were all out of reach, and not for sale, but at least nicely displayed. There was also some Mac gear and a little Sun equipment though they were a little more pricy. They've got a nice area for selling old software, hardware, and documentation. Buys included: boxed Commodore 64+4, Wolfram's Mathemattica suppliment CD, early Mac, 800k drive, Amiga TeX, and medialess software packages for MS Fortran, Bank Street Writer, and Jet all for something like $15. And on the way back home, I visited Alex Knight in North Carolina, and got to see some incredible calculators from the 60s including his programmable Merchants, and Nixietube/multiuser Wangs. I knew immediately that Alex would provide a good home for my Canon Canola SX-320 programmable... http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Can01.jpg ...which I was able to trade for the blue Intel equipment in the next pic... http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Imds01.jpg ;)! Joe already had dibs on the white Intel 225 (did you notice the harddisk for it?) I was happy to bring Joe's down and land the 210 system to reunite it with the tape reader I already had. http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Imds02.jpg Thanks Alex. The Canola will ship today or tomorrow! ;) - Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net

24 years

Bad Classic Operating Systems (was: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

At the time DF32s were not that small. They were however fast. The usual usage was as main store for the OS and working apps with slower device like DECTAPE or 9track tape for file data or infrequently used items. The other common usage was since it was fast (word parallel due to fixed heads and data break (DMA)) as a swap store while the system used a larger disk for other ops. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Bad Classic Operating Systems (was: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers) >What sort of drives were the intended target of this OS? I had a colleague >who had a couple of "DF32" drives for his PDP8E (wirewrapped CPU, BTW) which >he was never able to utilize, and I've always wondered just how those drives, >with their small capacity, fit into the scheme of things. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Loboyko Steve" <sloboyko(a)yahoo.com> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:42 AM >Subject: Re: Bad Classic Operating Systems (was: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers) > > >> I've been playing with my clone PDP-8's OS-8 >> installation, and I would say at first glance that you >> might think it was awful, but when you consider that >> it is running in 32K (x 12 bits, but still...) of RAM, >> has highly "regular" commands, has installable device >> drivers, and has a large degree of device independence >> it's really very amazing. I could say the same thing >> about Flex for the 6800 and 09. Considering their >> severely limited resources, pretty darned good. >> >> --- Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> wrote: >> > >> > > Apple's DOS 1 and 2 had no files, or so I hear. >> > >> > AFAIR there was never a Apple DOS 1 - the first was >> > called 2 >> > (like in Apple 2, Disk 2, Dos 2) and was written by >> > the Woz >> > himself. Soon to be replaced by DOS 3 (only the low >> > level and >> > the RWTS functions taken from DOS 2 _ which barely >> > was more >> > than that), which again soon developed into 3.2 (all >> > over a >> > period of less than a half year). 3.2 was more or >> > less the >> > standard DOS for over a year, and the one commonly >> > seen as the >> > first public release. Some time later (1980?) 3.3 >> > came around >> > and the 16 sector format, picking up a development >> > done for the >> > UCSD Pascal System (Well, the P-System required you >> > to change >> > the boot PROMs for 16 sector format, and if you >> > wanted to use >> > DOS and the P-System, you either had to swap PROM >> > all the time, >> > or have at least two controllers, and boot via >> > monitor (or basic) >> > command line). Otherwise 3.3 was more or less >> > unchanged from 3.2. >> > So the main trick was the conversion from 13 sectors >> > and 117 K >> > to 16 sectors and 143 K per disk (side). >> > >> > Well, looking back, your're right - at least Apple >> > DOS 1 never >> > supported files, because it didn't exist :) >> > >> > Gruss >> > H. >> > >> > -- >> > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen >> > http://www.vcfe.org/ >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more >> http://games.yahoo.com/ >> >> >

24 years

Bad Classic Operating Systems (was: Micro$oft Biz'droid Luser s)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > of course millions claiming to be system programmers and ...don't get me started on this one.. ;) > promote the interests of the Microsoft-haters, however right > or wrong they may FWIW, I believe they're right. I count myself among the "microsoft haters," and have no (absolutely none...) microsoft products, paid for or otherwise on any computer in my home. The computers at work, however, are not mine to do with as I please, and if they were, we wouldn't be having this conversation. :) > is concerned. Since giving bad advice can make you liable, > while being stupid > enough to follow such advice can not, I'd be really careful > about dispensing > such advice. Don't get me started on that either. ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > Of course Emacs isn't good at word processing, because it's a text > editor. It's also not very good at schematic capture, for the same > reason. ;) Really? I thought it was a virtual memory subsystem stress tester. *duck* Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years

AS/400s in the Champaign area

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On April 21, William Donzelli wrote: > > Umm, I have to disagree with you there...the machines in question are > > indeed of a mainframe architecture, and some IBMers were calling them > > "servers" many years before the zSeries was even an itch in IBM's > > pants. > > That is exactly what I meant...just marketting... Ahh, ok...I suppose, then, I was vehemently agreeing with you. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm. Big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > Has Microsoft really steered us toward a future full of nontechnical > computer programmers? Yes. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] > How can anyone do anything useful with a computer without the > following? Emacs, TeX/LaTeX, dvips, the Bourne shell for scripts, Ok then, how about using the VMS LSE for text editing? I believe TeX is not required for a computer to be "useful," since I don't produce much hardcopy anyway -- same with dvips. Bourne is useful, but so is DCL, TCL, Python, you-name-it, and there's nothing that bourne will do that one of the others won't. > ghostview, gimp, xv, PostgreSQL or Oracle, Perl, C, various useful ghostview is nice to have, but I've actually used just ghostscript, myself, and I've seen utilities that use straight DPS to accomplish the same kind of thing. Gimp is nice, but there are a few other graphics editors that will do the job -- I'm thinking photoshop or Corel's offerings here. XV is indispensable for me, but I don't think it's a requirement for everyone. PostgreSQL is certainly a fine tool, but again, there are many similar offerings, no less capable. Perl is very useful, but there are other choices. C is arguably a decent an more portable replacement for an assembler in many cases, but Modula-3 is nice. ;) > UNIX utilities (e.g. tar, awk, nawk, grep, sed, dc, ed, diff, cal, at, > bc, od, lint, etc.), to name a very few of the extremely useful > programs that run on UNIX systems. I won't address these things, but it should suffice to say that if any system didn't come with these, and you found them indispensable, you could write them yourself. I find that applications alone are hardly a good argument for the use or non-use of any system, and the much better argument is in the design of the system itself. Applications can be had, one way or another. Of course, this view won't make me very popular :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > I've seen PC/Windows shops with remarkably high uptime-to-downtime > ratios. None of them were running bargain equipment. That's ten minutes up/ten minutes scheduled downtime/15 unscheduled? ;) Ok, ok, it's a joke -- but with a kernel of truth. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > On April 21, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > BTW, when the NEXT boxes first came out, we had a few of > them sitting around > > for people to look at and play with. I personally was not > impressed. They > > were EXTREMELY low on gigaflops per picobuck and, aside > from the OS, I don't > Compared to what? I can support this particular one of Dick's comments, given that the performance of the M68K-ish chip in the NeXT boxes was generally accepted at the time to be lower than that of, for instance, MIPS, and probably M88K. OTOH, the systems (from my personal experience) were (are!) more than fast enough to be wonderful desktop machines, and I can't relate at all to his comparing the GUI to a Macintosh. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years

One-upsmanship

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

And talk about power usage: the building has a 2 megawatt line coming into it. We have two 10 MW lines here, does that count? 8^)= Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by Andreas.Freiherr＠Vishay.com

Well, it's been some years ago, and I've only done a pretty small amount of assembly-language programming on the DEC-10 (or PDP-10) besides much more FORTRAN, but the reason for me to learn MACRO-10 was byte handling, so let me tell you... Allison wrote: > > 6bits was the "byte" size for the PDP-8 (swap acc halves). > 9bits was the byte size for the PDP-10, I believe IBM360 and CDC6600 > 12 bits was link-8, PDP-8 and PDP-12 (likely others). > 9/18 the pdp7 (first home of unix). One of the more interesting features of PDP-10 architecture was that there is no fixed byte size. The instructions dealing with bytes (e.g., ILDB = Increment and LoaD Byte) address part of a 36-bit word by using a so-called "byte pointer", which is a (36-bit) word that defines the address (18 bits) and size (6 bits, IIRC) of the bytes being handled. This way, the same ILDB instruction can handle 5-bit bytes while reading old paper tapes as conveniently as 8-bit bytes when handling multinational character sets. Common byte sizes were 6 (for the SIXBIT code, a reduced character set for use in the file system and other places to encode identifying names) and 7 (for ASCII, parity not being stored). The 7-bit bytes left you with one bit unused, and 5 (yes, five!) characters could be stored in a word. This confused many FORTRAN-IV programs: they relied on handling strings in INTEGER arrays, and assumed the INTEGER*4 data type to be able to store four characters in 32 bits... A typical example was the FLECS translator: to port this from a 32-bit Siemens system to the 36-bit DEC-10, I had to rewrite the string manipulation routines as well as all the DATA statements that contained strings (regroup from four to five characters per INTEGER word). Later, replacing two FORTRAN routines with MACRO-10 made the translator run at about 2.5 times the original speed. If anybody wants to know more about this machine, let me know: what memory doesn't serve right any more will happily get looked up in "the Gorin", something like the bible for MACRO-10 programmers. I still have it, and you'll not find mine at eBay as long as I can read it myself. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] > Which is why I use FreeBSD and Solaris. There also appears to be a > certain Linux versus anything else attitude, including Linux vs. other > UNIX-like, and UNIX flavors. It wasn't too long ago when most people > who wrote free software for *NIX systems made an attempt to make it as > portable as possible, so that it could be compiled on most *NIX-like I'm not sure. I think that -- in my experience -- most people who write, or have written, software for Unix, don't particularly care to test it on multiple platforms. Generally I try at least five or six with my own code, but I don't think that's common. (For the curious: Linux Intel, NetBSD/SPARC, IRIX/MIPS, HP/UX/HPPA, SunOS 4/SPARC, AT&T Unix/MC68k) ... and no, I have not so far actually released anything. Mostly this is just stuff for my own use. > platforms. Many of the Linux hackers, however, it appears, tend to > write their software for Linux, and only Linux, systems, ignoring the Perhaps that's all they've got, and they don't care to install anything else? It's certainly their spare time, to do with as they please. Not that I'm saying it's the correct thing to do, but I won't automatically fault them for it. > fact that they wouldn't have their Linux software to play with if > other *NIX hackers hadn't written portable code. For example, the > Free Software Foundation from which Linux snatched most of it's > utility programs, etc. GNU software is often incredibly portable, but I blame this on the fact that the code is ported by other individuals than those who wrote it. At any rate, this is getting even further off-topic. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years

Specifications Sought for 7-Track Tape Heads

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> John Foust wrote: > > > Or for that matter, the seven "heads" could be displaced > > along the path of the tape, and the software would handle > > the realignment of the time domain. Or you could read > > less than 7 tracks at a time, and reassemble in software. > > Nope --- I would guess a 7 track head is needed, as you only get one > time to read the tape. Ben- watcha mean? I've shoeshined 9-tracks to death on one drive, then handed them to someone else who read them first pass on a different drive. Maybe 7-track tapes from 1961, but so far I've got nothing older than about 1972... -dq

24 years

Network Finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I hope to start hooking up a mix of hardware very soon and have over the last week picked up a Linksys Fast Ethernet 5-Port Workgroup Hub model FEHUB05W ($2.92), a Linksys EtherFast cable/DSL Router model BEFSR41 ($20), and a Katron 10BASE-T Ethernet hub 8 Plus model Hub/8 ($10) and now have tofigure which to use?

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] > Just talk louder and be more persistent; they'll reach a point where ^^^^^^ More loudly ;) > they'll either listen or fire you; it the later, no great loss since > it doesn't sound like they're worth working for. Actually, aside from having no clue how to run their computer systems, they're really good people, and I like them. That's my dilemma. I put up with them because I really do like my job, and especially in the current market, that makes me very lucky. > > agreed to follow their rules, and will have to do that > until they make > > more sane rules. > Why? I'm at a loss as to how I can make things any more clear. :/ Sorry. > > In other words, when I took their job, I gave them > > my word. > You gave them your word that you'd act like a good little obedient > dimwit? Why would anyone promise to do that? I suggest that you > run emacs and invoke doctor ("M-x doctor") to get some help. ;-) Actually, I prefer the stand-alone eliza program. > One can always refuse to work with that Micro$oft rubbish. Perhaps you The other option is to do the best you can with the crap that they already have, and if (when!) that's ever not good enough, to explain exactly why. > could educate your employer's clients; tell them all about the big > mistakes that they're making by wanting to use that Micro$oft > virusware which is broken, and otherwise annoying, by design. Don't > mince words, tell it like it is, and tell them that no reasonably > intelligent computer hacker would work with that rubbish unless it was > as part of a project to change over to a UNIX system, or VMS, or even > CP/M... that is, changing over to a system that doesn't destroy data I have made it extremely clear in the past (... and yes, I used just these words) that "we'd be much better off using CP/M." I'll probably make that statement many more times, and I don't really expect they'll change anything because of it. Perhaps I can have some kind of influence on new projects during the initial design stage by voicing my objection to the use of any microsoft product. Again -- this time to them -- I have no idea how I can make it any more clear. > and do other peculiar things with files. Ask them why they like > operating systems that molest data... someone needs to make an "Eddy > Electron" like film, that's Monty Pythonish, called "Pfe$ter, the > Micro $oft Mole$ter," showing him doing strange things with bits of > data as they flow through the computer. Sort of an "educational" film, like "Data Flows Red on The Hard Disk?" Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years

Bytesize (was: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format))

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> > > > 9bits was the byte size for the PDP-10, I believe IBM360 and CDC6600 > > > > > > Na, the /360 was a plain 8 Bit/Byte machine, but I think you're > > > right about the CDC. AFAIR there was a Bull machine using 9 Bit Bytes, > > > and 18 Bit integers. > > You sure about the CDC-6600? The complete word length was 60 bits, and I > > seem to recall that for the purposes of characters, there were 10 6 bit > > characters stored per word. http://www.scd.ucar.edu/computers/gallery/cdc/6600.html > The PPUs were 12 bitters. > > Sorry, yes, I should think before writeing. Of course, > the CDCs used weired 6 Bit teleype codings for character > representation. The CDC 6000 Series and its follow-ons were machines that had a Central processor with a 60-bit word and Peripheral & Control Processors that had a 12-bit word (ignoring the 64-bit word and 16-bit words of the 180 Series). As most definitions of "byte" revolve around it being a basic unit of *storage*, I would point out that 12-bits was the smallest unit of storage that could be manipulated without shifting & masking. Its *character* size, therefore, being 6-bits, was different from its *byte* size... This made implementing a C compiler a large headache, I'm told... -dq

24 years

Network Hub selection help needed

by tim＠snowgoons.fsnet.co.uk

Pete Turnbull wrote: >On Apr 21, 2:34, Chad Fernandez wrote: >> I'm finally going to work on hooking up a home network, so I guess I >> need a hub. What should I look for? I don't know much about networks >> yet. I have potentially 7 computers that I'd like to have connected. >> It'll need to be 10Base-T, but 100base-T may be involved too. I >> thought >> I'd look for something on Ebay, hopefully, not too expensive. Maybe >> something commercial grade, However. I thought about something >> from IBM >> or 3Com, any suggestions?? > >Go for autosensing 10/100baseT. If you're going to spend any amount of >money, you want to protect your investment by including 100baseT >capability >even if you don't need it right now. > >If you see a decent modern 3Com hub or switch, that's fine but most >of the >second-hand stuff I've seen is 10baseT only. I wouldn't bother >looking for >IBM. Baystack, 3Com, HP, Cisco are the ones you're likely to see. And >Netgear, which is almost entirely unmanaged kit, but quite good quality. My two pence worth... I'd not touch 3Com with a bargepole if I were you, particularly if it's "commercial grade" you're after. 3Com decided commercial customers weren't worth their bother some time ago. This is only a direct problem if their crock-of-!"?% CoreBuilder/SuperStack boxes bring down your entire network on a regular basis of course. And only a major problem if one of said boxes going down automatically crashes the so-called redundant failover. Unfortunately, 3Com equipment has satisfied both the above criteria too many times for my liking. That rant over with, more important piece of advice: If you go for a used HP switch, and it's advertised as 100Mb/s, make sure it is actually 100baseT you are getting. HP had their own standard (100VG) that will not work with 100baseT kit (at least some are 100VG only - they won't even downgrade to 10baseT.) If it's "commercial" stuff you're after (which I generally interpret as meaning 19" rackmount kit with redundant failover options and a whole host of SNMP security holes to close down before you can actually put into service,) then I'm afraid Cisco are a good bet. Other than that, I've got a Netgear hub at home that has never caused me a day of trouble. And it fits my criteria of being in a metal box :-). (IMHO, if the case is made of cheap plastic, then what's inside probably is as well...[*]) Alternatively, you could try building yourself a Teddy Borg: http://draco.mit.edu/teddyborg/ Cheers, Tim. [*] Cheap, that is. Not necessarily plastic. But probably ;-). -- Tim Walls at home in Croydon - Reply to tim(a)snowgoons.fsnet.co.uk

24 years

One-upsmanship

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Well now, I just saw the NCSC at Urbana. Each air handler there (there are 2) is about the size of 4 semi trailers parked side-by-side. And talk about power usage: the building has a 2 megawatt line coming into it. -----Original Message----- From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:01 AM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: One-upsmanship I think that certainly one of the criteria should be the HVAC required... "My computer requires more tons of AC cooling than yours" Jay West

24 years

classiccmp-digest V1 #927

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> I would also guess that older versions of AppleShare Server might have a > MacIP router built in. Apple must have offered a solution for it, I can't > believe they would provide all the client end tools and not have some way > of unwrapping it other than depending on a 3rd party program (which is > the only app I have seen that does it, but I am sure there must be > others). I can't recall if AppleShare IP 5.0 includes MacIP routing or not, but Apple bundled a product with it called Vicom Internet Gateway, which did/does include MacIP routing. -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits

24 years

Bad Classic Operating Systems (was: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Many would put OS/360 in that category. > > Some CDC 6600 OSs (I think NOS, maybe others) have permanent and > temporary files. If your batch job ends and you haven't made your > temporary files permanent, they will be gone. This unintuitive feature > persisted after CDC added an interactive terminal interface to the > underlying batch functionality. You could call that dangerous to data > (and I wouldn't disagree with you). > > I hope I haven't messed up those facts... someone will > probably correct me if I have. Doug Q.? NOS 1 followed Kronos by providing the TELEX subsystem for interactive use. TELEX provided an environment modeled a lot after the ones found inside BASIC interpreters, namely, you issue commands like OLD, NEW, RUN, etc... In fact, that was TELEX's primary purpose in life. It also provided a "batch" mode where you would simply type control- cards one at a time. But most everyone use the interactive modes. As to the file modes being counterintutive, they're really not, once you hold you head the right way... Just as in DEC-10 or other BASICs, if you typed NEW, a LOCAL file was created. Anythying you typed following a line number because part of the local file's contents. Of course, if you type a program in, and didn't type SAVE prior to logout, the file would be lost because you hadn't made it into a permanent file (PFILE). But as I say, this was the same was most BASIC interpreter environments worked,,, -dq

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On April 22, Raymond Moyers wrote: > I bet perl becomes bigtime on mainframes This frightens me. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm. Big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On April 22, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Why would anyone outside the UNIX/APPLE world care about postscript files? > That was once a popular format, but things change. Uhh, what? What color is the sky in your world, Dick? Postscript is The Way Things Are Done for high-end output. Even on PeeCees. Let me guess...you're saying this because YOU don't have a Postscript printer. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm. Big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den

24 years

duh

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Ignore that. It's late. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm. Big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den

24 years

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On April 22, Raymond Moyers wrote: > Things have been happening out here, we have had this > factor called "progress",, there has been advancement ! Oh Christ. Yes, progress...with Perl...to completely unreadable, unmaintainable, unbearably slow code. No, thanks. I'll also pass on the flame war...I've already been trolled enough for one night. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm. Big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den

24 years

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test-drb