test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > I like to see images while surfing and play multi-media stuff now and > then, > and play with a cad program or two. For command line stuff I like the > old > text screen. In that case, it sounds like what you really want are graphical full-screen applications, possibly with multitasking. In this case, the window decorations would just take up screen-space, and the windowing system would just take up memory, while not doing you too much good anyway. Not something that's been done yet, but it would be interesting, and it certainly wouldn't be too difficult. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

Maybe OT, but quite funny

by Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de

Pleas check the following site: http://members.truepath.com/objective/propaganda.html it is a incredible slow server. It_looks_ like some fundamental christian group, but what is presented as truth about Apple OSx, is so far reaching, that it could be also a parody of christian hate mongers. Hard to describe, but they draw a line from the fact that the development name for the OS X Kernel is Darwin over the usage of Daemons and the BSD icon to conclude that Apple is a satanistic and pagan company ... or something like that. So overdone that's realy funny again. chmod 666 the ultimat signe of satanic influence. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > BUT I MAY NOT WANT a bit map when running under XWINDOWS! Then why use a windowing system at all? > I want a 80x25 screen (640x480) because I can read the screen for > text-editing! Ok, but why would you use a windowing system? > No font's under X-windows (linux) would give me that! You could make one. I would, but I think you'll find that there are, indeed, fonts which will do this. > It is not the plumbing -- it is what goes down the pipe > that needs to > be standarded! That's certainly a Unix weak spot. > 1) Not everybody has the same standard fonts! Actually, any X11 setup should have the standard Adobe type-1 set. > 2) I like 1 screen 1 program and screen flipping. Ok, why would you use a windowing system? (Please note that I don't mean any disrespect by repeating this question so much...) > But the 3 button mouse is hard to find! Really? They are -- to steal a phrase -- common as dirt, as far as I know. You do know that the common annoying "wheel" mice are either three button, or five, depending on the software ;) > > You would make a good leftist, the asurdity seems high enough. > After 40 years waiting for public space travel, my faith in NASA > is wearing thin. Of course, it would happen in Europe first... Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

Apple-1 Auction conclusion

by mythtech＠mac.com

>So you're saying you've got an Apple-1 that you're secretly hoarding >because you love it and wouldn't give it up for anything in the world and >don't want anyone to know about it because you're afraid someone will >break into your house one dark night and steal away with it? That sounds about right. After all, isn't Richard the one that buy's Apple 2's for their "power supply". I think he is secretly afraid to admit he loves the Apple, so he just *says* he gets them for the power supply. I bet he has a collection to put the rest of us Apple lovers to shame. ;-) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 2 months

NEC Risc Server (2100?)

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Yes, Glen, I know already. No offense, but I'm looking for information, rather than opinion. I'm looking for info on an RT-4620-27A5S dual-CPU tower. It appears to be an EISA? RAID-equipped server. All I can find is some references on the NetBSD list, with no details as to the hardware. Is it really, finally, truly the mythical NT-only computer? Doc

23 years, 2 months

Anyone Care About RT-11

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Jerome Fine said: > By the way, for myself, I would VERY much appreciate > being in touch with all individuals who have a copy of the > RT-11 Freeware CD V2.0 so that we might exchange > information about RT-11. I have a copy. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:28 PM The whole mid 80s thing with workstations was a disaster in many respects as everyone was trying to put more processor in a box and unix was the OS of choice as it was easily ported and offered most of the higher level OS functions that stuff like DOS was clueless about. The problem was unix was easily ported though it didn't make for portable apps, usually due to underlying hardware or even the basic processor. In that respect CP/M and DOS made it easier as at least if it was CP/M-80 you knew your base cpu was 8080/z80 and if it was DOS you could bet on 808x. Unix back then meant MIPS, VAX, PDP-11, SUN/sparc, 68000, Z8000, and a few dozen I likely missed. >I've got about half-a-dozen of the free assembler/simulator/debugger packages >for Windows some of which come along with compilers for PL/M, Pascal, and 'C.' >I'm certainly not surprised that there are UNIX tools of that sort around, >since the 805x core has been around since '84 or so, when I started with it. >Back then, BTW, there was no Windows, nor was there much freeware. I used >UNIX on SUN hardware back then and it cost $100K a year for the personnel >needed to keep the rather small SUN system running. The typical EDA software >package cost over $200K and was patched about once a month, resulting in about >ten days' downtime per patch. Note the 8051 is 1981. I started with that chip using freeware under CP/M-80 and still use most of those tools. When there was a requirement I'd use a commercial compiler from Avocet systems a relatively inexpesive package back then. The idea that PCs were a unversal platform and was foreign to me until the vary late 80s ('89!). Even then DOS was the default not winders, assuming it wasn't SCO unix or the like. In the end a lot has been forgotten about the timeframe from 82 to about 88 where there was not just a little flux in the market and the PC was only one player. >happily went back to CP/M, which served much better, in my view. >Unfortunately, there was little freeware of any use for CP/M just as there is >for Windows. The OS was not available in source form, nor was it likely you'd Actually there was but the problem of incompatable media was crippling unless you had the majik 8"sssd box. The realy 80s was an explosive time for CP/M-80 software if you could get it in a form you could use. There was a large amount stuff published, but typing in 8-10 pages of listing was often a good reason not to persue it. What was also a bonus was the amount of cheapware (low cost), stuff that was good but, cheap to buy. >find source code for any application that was of any use. Back then, if you >wanted development software tools that worked pretty well, you bought >Microsoft compilers, assemblers, linkers, etc. Their stuff worked, was >adequately documented, etc. Actually back (pre 83ish) then MS was a language and development tool house and I'd say a fairly decent one at the time. >Nothing lasts forever, though. Roger that! Allison

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > Your a Holocaust denier ? Ok, I was wondering when somebody was going to mention Hitler. Thread closed -- we can all go home now. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

wang 2200 MVP & more looking for home (fast!)

by frustum＠pacbell.net

Last night I was contacted by Joe Kultgen about a wang 2200 MVP he needs to get rid of by the end of the month. Although I'm into the 2200, I'm interested in just a few early models. Please contact Joe directly at rtfm AT tds DOT net >Hi, > > Are you still looking for some vintage Wang 2200 hardware? > > About six years ago I pulled one out of service at a brokerage I >support. I have the following; > >3 2200 MVP Processors >1 2200 MVPC Processor >1 Magna removable hard disk + a half dozen disks. (Uses a removable hard >disk platter in plastic cartridge, 10MB) >2 twin bay extrernal hard drives (One has 2 MFM drives, other has 1 MFM and >one 5 1/4 floppy) >2 drive towers (6 bay?) that include 5 1/4 floppy and DAT tape drives. >1 large box of drive controlers, I/O, and memory cards. >1 Dumb terminal & keyboard >25 lbs. of assorted Wang docs and manuals > >Interested? >Joe Kultgen >RTFM Technical Services and in a subsequent email: > The reason I'm dumping the stuff is that I'm relocating my shop. I have >to be out by the end of the month. If you'd like to circulate the list, >please feel free. If somebody expresses an interest in paying the shipping, >they can have their pick of the pile, first come first served. I'll hold >stuff that anyone wants past the 30th, everything else hits the dumpster. ----- Jim Battle == frustum(a)pacbell.net

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > And today you have enough hardware in a PC box to support > 5,000 people doing the same thing, not that your lust for faster > hardware is over, because unix is doing things that Ken and Dennis > never envisioned. It's a shame that it has so much power, and yet is so poorly engineered, but I don't' suppose that's the point here. > ""If we prevent them from doing stupid things, we also prevent > them from doing creative things"" - Cant Remember Who But abstaining from stupid things is not the same as preventing others >from doing them. In other words, it can't hurt to be careful what you do, yourself, and to make the judgment whether this thing which you're about to do is actually worth, for instance, a sacrifice of consistency. > And these new things are seem seemless because the system > concepts are extensable with flexability in depth Seamless is a very relative term, but ok, I'll go with that. > Winblows by contrast has the depth of leftist reason and > the flexability of a socialist utopian machine gunner setting up > 40 paces from a fresh dug mass grave ditch. > and like winblows, equal use and benifit to you if your aim > and desire > dont fit with theirs. Wow, you're really down on these "leftists," aren't you. I'm certainly glad I've never met one ;) They sound scary, especially if they're that much like windows. > Flexability is freedom, freedom gives birth to creativity. ...which leads to new ideas, which lead, of course, to cheese. In other words, you may want to be more clear about your logic here. Even though I agree in principle with the above, it's very sensational, and there's nothing to support it. > True or false dont matter ? you really would make a good leftist > ( called liberal today, even as the real liberal is the opposite of a > leftist, its George Orwells newspeak, todays liberals are > not liberals > they are leftists, perhaps Marxocrat would be a good label ) I really hope you're not trying to make this into a more political discussion than it is now. > > It is not the plumbing -- it is what goes down the pipe > that needs to > > be standarded! > This is wrong, to do so would eliminate creativity. I don't think so. The fact that the standard exists, and is generally followed, doesn't prevent somebody from making a new standard or an extension to the old one where necessary. > New protocols are invented every day, the usefull ones end up > being adopted and the bad ones on the ashheap. It would be great if it did work that way -- now who's being utopian? ;) > On a 2 button mouse, you press both buttons to simulate > button 3, it works smoothly and perfectly well. You _can_ with XFree86, and friends. I certainly hope you don't think that those are the only X servers available. Some servers (while being very nice programs) don't have this feature. For the sake of argument I'll assume that you know all of this already, and point out that you could also use keys on the keyboard, if you so desire. I have done it before while using a Macintosh one-button mouse. > still suffreing the leftist egalitarian poison that has > raped the planet > of man potential. ( and left 200 million of its citizens in > mass graves ) Ack -- not the leftists again! > we can get along back to the accent of man. What kind of accent does man have? I hope it's not southern. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

Calculating VUP values

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

It's amazing DEC went to such bother calculating VUPs by running a set of real benchmarks on a finely tuned system and then reporting a measure based on some weighted sum when this procedure would have saved **sooo** much effort: According to this proc, the machines I can reach right now report: VAXstation 4000-90A: 26.0 bogoVUPs (should be 32+ VUPs) VAX 4000-700A: 30.8 bogoVUPs (should be ~40 VUPs) VAX 4000-705A: 34.4 bogoVUPs (should be ~45 VUPs) Alpha 2100 4/200: 35.2 bogoVUPs Takara (EV56@500MHz): 87.2 bogoVUPs Antonio -----Original Message----- From: Brian Wheeler [mailto:bdwheele@indiana.edu] Sent: 23 April 2002 14:37 To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Calculating VUP values On Tue, 2002-04-23 at 03:21, Huw Davies wrote: > I'm sure a few days ago I saw a piece of DCL fly by in a classiccmp mail > message that was supposed to calculate the VUP rating of a VMS system. > > At the time I didn't think I'd need it so didn't archive it, of course, now > I WANT it! Basically I'd like to get the VUP rating for my simulated > VAXserver 3900 thanks to simh (http://simh.trailing-edge.com). > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)kerberos.davies.net.au > | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > | air, the sky would be painted green" I might have been the one that posted it. I snagged it from google, so I don't know how accurate it is. On my pentium 3/1.7GHz I get 4.0 vups under simh. $! CALCULATE_VUPS: $! $ set noon $ orig_privs = f$setprv("ALTPRI") $ process_priority = f$getjpi(0,"PRIB") $ cpu_multiplier = 10 ! VAX = 10 - Alpha/AXP = 40 $ cpu_round_add = 1 ! VAX = 1 - Alpha/AXP = 9 $ cpu_round_divide = cpu_round_add + 1 $ init_counter = cpu_multiplier * 525 $ init_loop_maximum = 205 $ start_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ loop_index = 0 $ 10$: $ loop_index = loop_index + 1 $ if loop_index .ne. init_loop_maximum then goto 10$ $ end_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ init_vups = ((init_counter / (end_cputime - start_cputime) + - cpu_round_add) / cpu_round_divide) * cpu_round_divide $ loop_maximum = (init_vups * init_loop_maximum) / 10 $ base_counter = (init_counter * init_vups) / 10 $ vups = 0 $ times_through_loop = 0 $ 20$: $ start_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ loop_index = 0 $ 30$: $ loop_index = loop_index + 1 $ if loop_index .ne. loop_maximum then goto 30$ $ end_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ new_vups = ((base_counter / (end_cputime - start_cputime) + - cpu_round_add) / cpu_round_divide) * cpu_round_divide $ if new_vups .eq. vups then goto 40$ $ vups = new_vups $ times_through_loop = times_through_loop + 1 $ if times_through_loop .le. 5 then goto 20$ $ 40$: $ new_privs = f$setprv(orig_privs) $ set message /nofacility/noidentification/noseverity/notext $ ASSIGN/SYSTEM/EXEC 'vups' MACHINE_VUPS_RATING $ set message /facility/identification/severity/text $ write sys$output "Approximate System VUPs Rating : ", - vups / 10,".", vups - ((vups / 10) * 10) $ exit Brian

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

> The only operating systems that I'm aware of that were made for the DEC >Alpha were VMS (or is that OpenVMS), ULTRIX, Linux and maybe a certain >version of Windows NT. There might have been another UNIX variant made >for the DEC Alpha but I'm not aware of what it could be. There was a version of DEC OSF/1 which early on ran on some of the DEC MIPS boxes, but Ultrix has only ever run on the Vax and MIPS, not Alpha. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

23 years, 2 months

suggestions on BBC Micro, voltage converter, PAL monitor (in US)?

by dpeschel＠eskimo.com

It has been my mission for some time to bring a BBC Micro back from England. I would need some way to adapt British plugs to US sockets and convert the voltage, and I would also need a PAL monitor. (No, I don't want black-and-white NTSC. Yes, I could bring a montior back from England along with the computer. I'm not sure if I want to do that.) Does anyone have experience with these things? I am hoping to save money ($500 would be above the top of my price range) but I don't want to fry anything either. Oh yes, and if anyone has an extra Beeb hanging around that would be nice too. -- Derek

23 years, 2 months

suggestions on BBC Micro, voltage converter, PAL monitor (in US)?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 22, 12:09, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > >If the power supply is switching, they ususally rectify the line > votage > >and go from there. In which case the frequency has no bearing.. > > Never having had either a broken beeb or a broken cub > monitor, I have no idea whether they care > about the frequency or not. They don't. The frequency won't matter, only having "about" the right voltage. Actually, I once (when I worked for an Acorn distributor) came across a guy working abroad who had inadvertantly used his unmodified Beeb on a 120V supply and never noticed until he bought a monitor -- which refused to work at such a low voltage. I wouldn't suggest you try it, though; it should be easy to change the PSU setting. Many monitors may not care too much about the frequency either, but it's probably easier to get one that can be set to 110V; a CGA or Amiga monitor should work. I'd strongly suggest an RGB (TTL level) monitor rather than a PAL or other composite colour monitor, as the higher-res screen modes aren't too sharp when the colour signal is added to a composite signal. > There are (cheap) travel adapters that allow you > to plug UK appliances into various > worldwide connectors. I don't have one to > hand to check, but I do know some of them > can cope with a hairdryer - whether that's > enough to not catch light when trying > to feed an early beeb with the > varnish-stripping PSU is not > clear to me :-) Don't try it. Neither the adapter nor the Beeb's switch-mode PSU will like it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by nemesis-lists＠icequake.net

Dick, > I wouldn't either. I'm not sure that you can go and get an education anymore. > ... > Back when I was in high school, a score of 800 on one or the other of the > SAT's was a rare event that didn't occur every year in a school system in a > city of half-a-million or so. Nowadays, with the obviously much-lowered > standards, it happens all the time. I really don't see how this follows. Students are scoring higher on standardized exams, thus the standards must "obviously" be much-lowered. Without having proof to the contrary, Occam's Razor would suggest that the explanation to higher overall scores on standardized tests would simply be "a better overall quality of education today". After all, if students are learning more and thus scoring higher on standardized tests, well, what more does that mean than that the standardized tests are doing what they are designed for (as demographic tools) and are representative of the increase in students' learning? Without proof, we cannot assume either way. So if you would like to make an argument about education quality in the US today, back it up with facts, otherwise it just sounds like "In my day" geezer-ranting. -- Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net>, icq=10317253

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Without proof, we cannot assume either way. So if you would like to >make an argument about education quality in the US today, back it up with >facts, >otherwise it just sounds like "In my day" geezer-ranting. I can tell you the school system I went thru has significantly lowered it standards for grades, while at the same time INCREASING their requirments of what you are taught. I have a nephew going thru the same schools I attended (even has many of the same teachers), and I see what he is learning, and how it reflects to his grades. He is taught more than I was at his level... BUT, failure to know the stuff doesn't result in matching low grades. At least in this school system, it looks like they just won't give a kid lower than a C... no matter what. But they are definitly teaching more than they were when I attended... so things like standardized tests may result in higher average scores, since some of that higher learning probably sinks in to a good percentage of the kids. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 2 months

Apple-1 Auction conclusion

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Prob'ly not, since he presumably only runs Unix. Wait... isn't Richard also the guy that said he has no need for any Unix machine? And that Unix isn't good for anything except $250k programs? Or am I mixing up thread posts? -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 2 months

suggestions on BBC Micro, voltage converter, PAL monitor (in US)?

by cdl＠proxima.ucsd.edu

> From: "Carlini, Antonio" <Antonio.Carlini(a)riverstonenet.com> > To: "'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org'" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: suggestions on BBC Micro, voltage converter, PAL monitor (in > US)? > Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:09:05 -0700 > > >Can you get UK to Euro AC adapters there? I've only seen the round > >plugs with two pins, and the sorta ground lug. > > There are (cheap) travel adapters that allow you > to plug UK appliances into various > worldwide connectors. I don't have one to > hand to check, but I do know some of them > can cope with a hairdryer - whether that's > enough to not catch light when trying > to feed an early beeb with the > varnish-stripping PSU is not > clear to me :-) There are two kinds of travel adapters. The ones for low-power gadgets less than 50 watts, which use a transformer. The ones for high-power gadgets like hair dryers or clothes irons, which just use a half-wave diode rectifier, and figure that they are letting only half the power through. The second kind is not recommended for anything electronic. :-) It even says so on the package. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

23 years, 2 months

OT (way OT) SAT: (was Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format))

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

The SAT, at least, has been rescaled, resulting in older scores being equivalent to newer scores about 100 points greater. Even without an explicit rescaling, standards could have been lowered by virtue of the questions themselves having become less challenging. -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Underwood [mailto:nemesis-lists@icequake.net] Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 5:06 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format) Dick, > I wouldn't either. I'm not sure that you can go and get an education > anymore. ... Back when I was in high school, a score of 800 on one or > the other of the SAT's was a rare event that didn't occur every year > in a school system in a city of half-a-million or so. Nowadays, with > the obviously much-lowered standards, it happens all the time. I really don't see how this follows. Students are scoring higher on standardized exams, thus the standards must "obviously" be much-lowered. Without having proof to the contrary, Occam's Razor would suggest that the explanation to higher overall scores on standardized tests would simply be "a better overall quality of education today". After all, if students are learning more and thus scoring higher on standardized tests, well, what more does that mean than that the standardized tests are doing what they are designed for (as demographic tools) and are representative of the increase in students' learning? Without proof, we cannot assume either way. So if you would like to make an argument about education quality in the US today, back it up with facts, otherwise it just sounds like "In my day" geezer-ranting. -- Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net>, icq=10317253

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > you mean those systems that eschew the command line by > makeing the function it provided impossible ? Touche' > Unix is superior *because* it retained the command line. > the Unix GUI is also superior, because it is network transparent. Ok, well, I would argue that Unix is superior to windows because what architecture Unix has is much more well implemented that the windows architecture. Having a command-line is, of course, very helpful in trying to do real work with a computer, but I don't' know whether I'd give it as a point of superiority. > > Allmost 99% of unix is based on the main frame model of computing > > where you have 50 people all say text editing with the same editor > > and 3 people running a program in the background. > Ok so you dont know anything about unix, thats what you are > saying here. Not exactly, I think he's saying that Unix acts like a multi-user system. ;) Of course, I could be way off, but I wouldn't argue if that's the case. > > The windows model is based on personal computers with > crappy hardware > > that you have 100% of the system to yourself. > How does that differ from my unix boxes ? i certainly have them all > to myself. If your unix boxes are based on crappy hardware, I feel sorry for you. Honestly, the real difference is that on a Unix system, in order to make the system treat you as if you're the only user in the world, you've got to make some "adjustments." That's as it should be. > > I would like to see a 3rd system, one where the concept of > information > > can be shared and that gives you a standard toolkit for > both character > > and bitmaped displays > That is an oxymoron, even tho what unix has now makes this look > like what is happening. This is hard to interpret. The runes tell me that this might either mean that he'd like a standard set of APIs for controlling both textual and graphical windows. That's kind of an interesting idea, and if that's the case, take a look at Oberon (the programming environment). They also mention that he could be speaking of separate standard APIs, a standard for each type of screen. If that's the case, I'd say NeXT had this for a while. :) X11 is interesting, but the NeXT GUI is much more efficient and coherent than most X11 systems, AFAICT. The major exception in X11 being SGI's IndigoMagic environment, which is wonderful. > Gimp dont translate to a tty very well, but an xterm is certainly the > bitmapped representation of the tty. True, but it's certainly possible to make a graphical terminal, and a standard set of escape sequences. This has been done a few times, with acceptable results. > and the bitmapped display is network transparent, making it superior > to everything else, 2 CPUs or a farm of 4000 boxes, you I'm still going to mention NeXTSTEP as an exception here. "Superior to everything else" is a dangerous statement. Network transparency is nice, of course, and NeXT has that too. > Unix already has this X11 is a standard you can run your sun apps > your irix apps your freebsd apps all on the GUI of your linux box all > at once. and last time i looked, all the other systems have adopted > our plumbing, not the other way around. Of course, if you have this, why not use the GUI of your SGI ;) > eh ? what would be wrong with a nice large 4096 x 3192 screen > with whatever size fonts you desire ? and the ability to populate > that screen with the workload of a whole stack of boxes. Indeed. I wonder this often, myself. > to the microset winblows can provide. unix has point and > click too, but it isnt implimented stupidly. Well, that depends on your definition of "point and click." I certainly have Unix systems that do it, by any definition, but it's harder to find a Unix machine that does it according to the definition of most end users. It can be done very well, and still not dumb the machine down. It has been done on SGI, NeXT, and AT&T's "UnixPC" to name a few, but I wouldn't consider what most Unix systems come with (CDE -- Yuck, or for linux GNOME "Please wait while we redraw the screen...") worth bothering to use. > So utopian brainwashed fiction writers are now your authority > on such things .. Well, the only thing wrong with a utopia is that it's not possible to sustain for any length of time. In conclusion, I'm all for criticism of windows, but please note that Unix is not perfect either. It's just better ;) There are many things that Unix could learn from other systems. Access controls, privleges, for instance. -- and it could certainly learn what not to do, and how to market itself from any microshaft product. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

AS/400s in the Champaign area

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Thompson [mailto:thompson@mail.athenet.net] > CISC 9404 and 9402's that I have seen typically have crappy 150MB oem > Tandberg QIC tape drives. Supposedly they are very finicky with their > SCSI-I. I never bothered to do much with mine. > The disk drives (if not too small to be useful) can be > reformatted to 512 > byte sectors and used elsewhere. I am using an IBM 0661 now from an > AS/400 in a Netbsd DECstation 5000/260 as a second drive. As I said, this thing has two EMC RAID boxes in it. The drives in there are 80-pin SCA type SCSI disks. It also seems to have a tape library of unknown pedigree. It's also worth mentioning that I talked to a friend who used to work for this company that had the AS/400, and he had this to say: ----- oh, what can I tell you about it? Not much, like I said, i never monkeyed with it. It was a monstrous huge thing, a good 15 years old, I think. There was twinax wire running throughout the building, from when the staff had to access it via dumb terminals. Later they stuck a NIC on it somehow, and got TCP/IP running on it, I think, because the staff had a telnet-like client for hooking up to it. ----- Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

apology

by nemesis-lists＠icequake.net

I just hit a wrong key in my mailer and accidentally cc:d an entire copy of today's digest to the list. :( Sorry! *dodges hate-mail and flames* -- Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net>, icq=10317253

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > Oh Christ. Yes, progress...with Perl...to completely unreadable, > unmaintainable, unbearably slow code. No, thanks. You'll appreciate this message which I sent to a few people on Friday. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' ---------- Well, I had a moment of boredom today, and in the interest of science, I decided to see whether output from the system random number generator might make a valid Perl script. Session follows: webserv:~/sla_html/cgi-bin$ dd if=/dev/random of=./test bs=1024 count=1024 0+1024 records in 0+1024 records out webserv:~/sla_html/cgi-bin$ perl -c test Unrecognized character \271 at test line 1. syntax error at test2 line 1, near "/." Bareword found where operator expected at test2 line 4, near ")c" (Missing operator before c?) In string, @k now must be written as \@k at test2 line 6, near "I p&`}@ \.%+ Kj&D :X" j Bt1@k" Bareword found where operator expected at test2 line 13, near "?xVr" (Might be a runaway multi-line ?? string starting on line 6) (Missing operator before Vr?) Bareword found where operator expected at test2 line 14, near "%^g" (Missing operator before g?) Can't find string terminator "`" anywhere before EOF at test2 line 15. <Looks like I'll have to repair some syntax errors on the part of the random number generator...> <After correcting some "obvious syntax errors"...> webserv:~/sla_html/cgi-bin$ perl -c test2 test2 syntax OK webserv:~/sla_html/cgi-bin$ cat test2 #RW/.Z eF9g #j1G=qj #)c.Q #/c!*B_/; #h^?I p(@&) .%+; Kj; #X" j" Bt(@k); TON; \?xVr?; #E%g; Nb_('P'); ~cgu b^O^ s/$T//; $S3X=vU gx/A/ <Now that's pretty impressive> Chris

23 years, 2 months

suggestions on BBC Micro, voltage converter, PAL monitor (in US)?

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>If the power supply is switching, they ususally rectify the line votage >and go from there. In which case the frequency has no bearing.. Never having had either a broken beeb or a broken cub monitor, I have no idea whether they care about the frequency or not. It's unlikely, but you never know ... One or other of the PDPs used to derive some sort of rough clock from the input frequency. You told it whether it was running 50Hz or 60Hz so it could adjust appropriately. >Can you get UK to Euro AC adapters there? I've only seen the round >plugs with two pins, and the sorta ground lug. There are (cheap) travel adapters that allow you to plug UK appliances into various worldwide connectors. I don't have one to hand to check, but I do know some of them can cope with a hairdryer - whether that's enough to not catch light when trying to feed an early beeb with the varnish-stripping PSU is not clear to me :-) Antonio

23 years, 2 months

zOS, OS/390, Perl, and ancestors

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

A relevant piece of "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal" comes immediately to mind: "No, your Real Programmer uses OS\370. A good programmer can find and understand the description of the IJK305I error he just got in his JCL manual. A great programmer can write JCL without referring to the manual at all. A truly outstanding programmer can find bugs buried in a 6 megabyte core dump without using a hex calculator. (I have actually seen this done.) OS is a truly remarkable operating system. It's possible to destroy days of work with a single misplaced space, so alertness in the programming staff is encouraged. The best way to approach the system is through a keypunch. Some people claim there is a Time Sharing system that runs on OS\370, but after careful study I have come to the conclusion that they were mistaken." And, anyway, wouldn't MVS, OS/390 or zOS, or whatever IBM marketing is calling it this week run Perl just fine under its POSIX layer (OMVS)? >> On April 22, Raymond Moyers wrote: >> > I bet perl becomes bigtime on mainframes >> >> This frightens me. >> >> -Dave. > > The 60 Billion fold increase in function ? > <snip>

23 years, 2 months

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