test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

Serendipity (Was: Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format))

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> > > Lots of perfectly useable computers started out as little > more than toys. [..snip..] > Nevertheless, Ed Roberts has gone on record as saying he didn't intend the > thing to grow into a computer, which suggests that he didn't originally view > it as one. The Processor Technology SOL likewise was not intended to be a stand-alone computer. Lee had in mind a terminal for use with connecting to real computers. I can't recall if he and Bob Marsh just looked at each other one day and realized it could be more, or if the stand-alone concept originated with Les Solomon. Bob Stek? Jim Battle? What do you recall? -dq

23 years, 2 months

"Windows V1.0"

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Eric J. Korpela" <korpela(a)ssl.berkeley.edu> wrote: > Windows didn't really have 386 support until 3.0 Um, I think the Windows Virtual Machine Manager (and the notion of using multiple V86-mode VMs and virtual device drivers to run multiple DOS windows concurrently) first turned up in Windows/386. ObClassiccmp: this was long enough ago to be on topic. Hey Fred, is there any room over there on the Group Grumpy bench? -Frank McConnell

23 years, 2 months

expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by mhstein＠canada.com

Fred, you're my man! All the same printers, among others, that I used with my CBM PETs (except the LJ which came later, and my Diablo was the model without the 4004), and they were all FINE printers, especially the 101 (a substantial piece of hardware indeed); still have the 40 foot (!) parallel ribbon cable so I could keep the printer in the basement & close the door to keep the noise reasonable upstairs in the office... mike ----------------Original Message------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> Subject: Re: expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers) > The only printers for the coco really was the RS ones and really crappy > at that too! ANY "RS-232" printer that was switchable to "AUTO LF" would work just fine. And, with a serial/parallel converter (reaily available, and which quite a few people here are capable of building), parallel "centronics" printers worked. I used a Coco with DTC-300 (HiType I daisy wheel, with 4004 processor), Centronics 101 (weighed 4 zillion times what the computer did), silly radio shack pen plotter/printer, Epson MX-100, and HP Laserjet! Which of those is the crappiest?

23 years, 2 months

expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > When you opened the box with your COCO, what useful work > would it do with the > $399 you had just spent? Could you write a letter? Could As with any computer, you'd need software. Let's take that into account, and say that you could certainly get software on ROM cartridges, and that you could plug a normal household tape recorder in and store data on cassette. Sure, it's not the greatest thing in the world, but it will "balance the checkbook" that way. > you write and > compile a Fortran program? Could you save your work in any I'm not sure whether there were any compilers available that didn't require disk drives. It would have been possible (not fun) given the proper programs. > meaningful way? > Given that you had a printer, could you attach it and use it? Yes, if it was a serial printer. Most software that used a printer depended on having a serial printer plugged into that port on the back of the system. If it was parallel, you'd need a converter. > What software > was there, that you could install and use? How and where > would you install Cartridge slot or cassette tape. Again, there was some available. I'm not sure that it would be enough to constitute "lots," but there was certainly some of most types of software. > it? When you finally decided you had to build your own > hardware and write > your own software, wouldn't it have been easier to use a > wirewrap card and a > CPU chip and start from scratch rather than having to work I'm sure it depends on what you're doing. It seemed to me that the bus slot in the side would have been simple enough to use for hardware add-ons, and you could certainly program the thing in machine code, if nothing else. > hardware didn't cost less if you used one of the "toy"-based > systems, and the > software wasn't any more available than if you'd used a > "real" computer. It Home computers have never been in the same class as "real computers". I'll be the first one to suggest that; they probably never will, either. I would say that it depends on whether you wanted to do "home computer" things, or something more. Certainly it would cost quite a bit of money to make them do something they weren't designed to do, but if your needs fit the design, they were probably fine. Even adding disks would have still been less expensive than the "real computers" of the day. > near the bottom. For something equal to, say, and Apple][,. > I'd say you'd pay > nearly twice what a well-purchased Apple][ would have cost > for a RS product of > nearly similar actual capabilities. RS never did build > something genuinely > intended for expansion though, did they? That was a complaint of mine too. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Christopher Smith wrote: > > you write and > > > compile a Fortran program? Could you save your work in any > > > > I'm not sure whether there were any compilers available that > > didn't require disk drives. It would have been possible (not > > fun) given the proper programs. > > Fortran II could compile from paper tape on the IBM 1620. > The PDP-8 had I think a paper tape version of fortran too, > but not sure what version, II or IV. I think this might be an articial distinction... All the operating systems for the CDC 6600 and its kin required some kind of disk or drum drive, where parts of the operating system would reside. However, the compiler itself could just as easily have been loaded and run from tape in the Chippewa OS. The FORTRAN programs it processed could be on magtape or on cards; Chippewa doesn't seem to have any papertape support. There does not appear to be any support for the user or even the operator to have disk-resident files, as there was no filesystem to speak of in Chippewa. -dq

23 years, 2 months

"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Well, OK. I didn't explicitly mention that they made floppies for the >floppy port. Bu "exactly one", I meant "hard disks" to show that it >wasn't commonly done. Ah yes... beyond floppies, the Apple HD20 is the only other device by ANYONE that I am aware of for the Mac floppy port (their might be other stuff... I'm just not aware of them). But floppy drives were available >from a number of vendors. >I do not >recall if a FDHD drive will work, even at 800K, in a Mac that isn't >expecting it. I have one FDHD SE and several 800K SEs; I suppose if >I were ever curious enough, I could test the theory. I don't think it could be done with Apple branded drives unless you had the newer ROM that allowed the FDHD. However, there were some 3rd party external drives that worked with 1.44 3.5 disks, and even with 5.25 and PC disks. And those worked with older Macs (at least back to the Mac Plus, and I think as far back as the 512k or kE). I think Dayna was an example of a company that made a high density external drive for the Plus... and they had a model that had a 5.25 drive in the same case (only R/W pc format IIRC). But I assume such drives had an init and didn't "just work". I will be sure to test the AE drive I am getting from Dave tonight on my Mac Plus to see if it could read a 1.44 disk. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 2 months

"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Hey! I did say the mass storage interface had to be internal to the > "computer" and not necessarily the mass storage devices. Sure, but my point was, for instance, the C64 had drives that used what basically amounts to a straight serial (or is that parallel?) interface, and that is in the computer. But they're "toys," right? > campus is the enclosure, while if it's a desktop, it's pretty Is that like "the network is the computer?" :) > Besides, though I didn't originally point this out, some of > you guys have, as > toys, some of those very machines that you're pointing out > aren't really toys. > Are you guys trying to have it both ways? Just because they're not toys doesn't make it impossible to play with them like toys. We could just define anything that's not necessary for survival to be a toy, and be done with it. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by mythtech＠mac.com

>my PS/2 is a 'real' computer? err... change all my refs of PS/2 to PS2 (ie: Sony Playstation 2). Sorry, spent the day looking at IBM PS/2's (ie: the computer), so the slash just jumped its way in there. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 2 months

IBM PC 5150

by mhstein＠canada.com

>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:16:58 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >Subject: RE: Period pricing references (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers) >Did yours have the extra DB blockoff plate on the back panel? Yup! >Did it have a drive mounting screw coming up from the bottom? Yup! >My first 5150 came from IBM with a WHITE (NOT RED!) power switch, and a >BLACK power supply (63.5W?) Mine too! With very few, very stiff and very short connecting cables. >These days, I hardly EVER even see the 16K-64K motherboard ones. Well, I threw out the case a while ago, but still have the motherboard, some keyboards and maybe even the black PSU, as well as some IBM TM100 faceplates, if anybody's interested. mike

23 years, 2 months

"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > > That pretty much describes commodore disk drives, yep. The > An external IDE drive would be hazardous thing to use because > of cable length. Didn't think of that -- you're probably right. > > handled all of the complexities of disk I/O, so that the CPU didn't > > need to -- so there are good points to them. > What you may have had, then, is a toy with a computer as a > peripheral. That > was probably quite a bit after the time reference of 1980. Actually, I don't remember what CPU was in the 1541 drives, but I seem to recall that it was actually more powerful than the computer. I also remember somebody working on a way to get code into the drive to be executed, but that's kind of fuzzy. > What I am focused on is where the intelligence to run the I/O > resides. Once So does the computer have to come with it, or simply allow space for it on the inside of the case? > peripherals made great deal of sense. However, it resulted > in ugly and > awkward packaging, which was addressed even later with more > elegant interface > standards, say, by 1986, with the standardization of SCSI. Well, I certainly won't argue with that. > > Would you also have considered 9-track tape "mass storage" for the > > time? > I'd tread lightly around that subject, unless your Atari or > whatever, had a > 9-track drive in '80 or so. Obviously not, I'm just curious as to whether it would need to be some form of "fast" disk-like storage, or if a high-capacity tape would be ok. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Open the box. Open the S-100 mainframe. Open the individual Wow, an S-100 mainframe. I want one of those. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org] > I have worse news: today, it's called a Macintosh. Before you > argue with > me, consider that nobody in their right mind would want to > buy a computer > with less than 10% market penetration, without a pretty > compelling reason. Having considered that, I've decided that the fact that it's a very nice system, and you prefer it to a Macintosh is a compelling reason to buy a system with less than 10% market penetration. Of course, there's also the "which market" argument, which I don't think I have to get into... > I find that most Mac users I talk to have compelling reasons > for owning > Macs. People that want a PC will buy a PC. People that want a They like them; indeed, that's a compelling reason. No matter how good the system is, you can't do a thing with it if you're not comfortable with it. (well, ok, you can, but it's much harder) > Mac will buy > a Mac. People that want a computer will buy a PC (though IMO > they would be > better served with Macs, but that's solely my own opinion and They certainly would, though that's not really high praise for Macintosh. They'd be better off with an Atari 400. :) People buy peesees for one of four reasons: They favor them -- usually because they've never seen anything else. Their friend-who-knows-everything-about-computers likes them (yeah...) Everybody else is doing it They don't know that anything else exists I can't think of another reason to buy a peesee. Personally, I'm much happier with my used workstation than I would be if I'd bought a peesee at the same time, for about twice the money. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > ... and you feel it's warranted to spend vast amounts of > money, which the > Altair cost, on a machine with no means for putting code/data > in or out except > for single-bit LED's and a few switches when there's no other > means for > inserting/extracting information? Even Ed Roberts indicated Dick, I think you're the only one on the list who _wouldn't_ spend vast amounts of time and money for a computer like that ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Haven, CT]

by mythtech＠mac.com

> This may be an off-topic post, but Chris is nuts for old HP laser >printers and old Macs! More nuts for old Macs and Apple's. I wouldn't have done the drive for the printers if I didn't have a use for them. But for Mac's or Apple's... yeah, I'd have done it just to add yet another one to my pile (and if it was one I didn't already have... then I would have driven even farther) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 2 months

URGENT: 1979 vintage Linoterm system needs home!

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Hi, gang, Even though my interests have swung pretty much back to ham radio, etc., I still get the occasional E-mail advising me of a classic computing system that needs a new home. This one's a doozy -- an honest-to-God Mergenthaler 'Linoterm' system. The owner is located in the Puget Sound region, Washington state. Please contact him directly using the info in the following note. Note that this one is time-critical. If you can help this fellow, please contact him ASAP. Thanks much. Message copy follows. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Hi Bruce - I have a Mergenthaler Linoterm Model 50M computer phototypesetter, and it needs a home. It was bought new by the previous owner (a Seattle ad-agency owner) in 1979 for roughly $52,000. This machine is the transition between the hot-lead Linotype mechanical typesetters and the Linotronic, the first of today's computerized typesetting gear. The Linoterm set what might be the all-time high-water mark for typographic quality. There's a combined CRT/keyboard terminal that runs everything (looks like a Wang VS terminal). The main processor is a big cardcage that holds a bunch of doormat-sized circuit cards (looks to be TTL) with 16K of RAM, and (2) 8" floppy drives. The typesetting unit is optical, controlled by a Z80 chip. OS is supposed to be proprietary, but it seems to respond to typical CP/M commands, so it's probably CP/M with some custom extensions. Then there's quite a bit of support equipment and accessories, a good batch of 8" floppies (old files, training stuff, and the OS), and a complete set of manuals. I had it cabled up and running about five years ago, so it's all there and it all works. We just moved a few weeks ago from Mill Creek (just south of Everett) to Burlington, which is why I need to find a new home for the Linoterm. It's in the garage at our old place in Mill Creek, so when that place sells, it needs to be gone. I also have quite a few other vintage bits and pieces that might belong in somebody's restoration, but those were small and easily moved. The Linoterm is good-sized, about a pickup load, and weighs a couple hundred pounds. Thanks for any help you can give me on this: I'd hate to have to just scrap it. - Rick Harrison - rgh(a)fidalgo.net - richardgharrison(a)yahoo.com - (360) 707-5989 (land line and answering machine) - (425) 330-2084 (cell phone) PS: I don't have the scanner hooked up at the new place yet, but if some scans out of the manual will find it a home, I'll get it hooked up, just let me know. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)

23 years, 2 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > > > > Altair cost, on a machine with no means for putting code/data > > Dick, I think you're the only one on the list who _wouldn't_ spend > > vast amounts of time and money for a computer like that ;) > > Isn't that one of the ones for which he saves the power cord and dumpsters > the machine EVERY time he finds one? > Did someone say power cords??? I got a box of about 4 dozen if you need any. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

23 years, 2 months

Sysgen Omni-Bridge Floppy Controller

by tarsi＠binhost.com

Anyone got docs or at least jumper settings for an 8-bit Sysgen Omni-Bridge Floppy Controller? I just found one and it works (or at least it loads its BIOS on boot) and so I'd like to get it going. I'm gonna try to run it in an AT&T 6300. Thanks! Tarsi 210

23 years, 2 months

Hp2100 software available. Where ?

by aek＠spies.com

> Next question: Where ? You probably aren't going to find a disc image that you can boot on SIMH in the near future. HP sold EACH program separately, and what is currently available are several thousand paper tape images that will require someone with DOS or RTE experence to sysgen. You will need the docs, too, which currently have been scanned, but haven't been cleaned up or pdf-ed and won't be available for at least a month.

23 years, 2 months

Fluke 9010 Micro-System Troubleshooter ??

by aek＠spies.com

> Does anyone know where I could pick up/buy one of these pieces of test > equipment? I have several without pods (the expensive part)

23 years, 2 months

Hp2100 software available. Where ?

by CAA007216＠mail.ono.es

Thanks. Do it exist some available copy of some operative OS for the HP2100 (in form of PaperTape, Virtual Disk or so) ? Greetings Sergio ----- Mensaje Original ----- Remitente: "Jay West" <jwest(a)classiccmp.org> Fecha: Viernes, Abril 26, 2002 1:50 pm Asunto: Re: Hp2100 software available. Where ? > I am building an archive at www.classiccmp.org/HP for hp software. > Note that > the "HP" in that url must be capitalized or you'll get a different > site. I > just started putting stuff there so there isn't a huge amount, but > it is > growing very rapidly thanks to Al's great hard work scanning > documents and > reading paper tapes. > > If there's any software you're looking for that you don't see > there, just > let me know. > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sergio Pedraja Cabo" <CAA007216(a)mail.ono.es> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 5:08 AM > Subject: Hp2100 software available. Where ? > > > > > > Hello everybody. I should like to probe the HP2100 simulator > available> under Bob Supnik's SIMH. Is there any software > repository available > > for this machine ? I know the Jeff Moffat's website programs only, > > but somebody spoke here some time ago about some other place where > > to get software for this machine. > > > > Greetings > > > > Sergio > > > > > > > > > > >

23 years, 2 months

Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Hav en, CT]

by cdl＠proxima.ucsd.edu

> From: David Woyciesjes <DAW(a)yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > To: "'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org'" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Hav > en, CT] > Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:11:26 -0400 > Sender: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > > > From: Bill Pechter > > > > > Anyway, to my point... This is off-topic, so taking it off-list is > > > appropriate I believe... I have a Sun Ultra1 Creator. (170E, Open Boot > > 3.1, > > > 128 MB RAM, 4 GB Quantum, 1 GB Conner, floppy disk... old 19" Sun color > > > monitor, type 5c keyb, optical mouse w/proper silver pad!) Well, now > > that I > > > finally got the Creator framebuffer replaced, it's time to load Solaris. > > > Except that all the CD-ROMS I have aren't even seen by the console... > > And I > > > tried the sector size jumper both ways. > > > > > > -- > > > > try to describe the scsi bus and termination. > > do a probe-scsi and a probe-scsi-all... > > > > let me know what that does. I'm pretty sure that there is a Sun screwup in the Ultra1 boot ROM such that "probe-scsi" doesn't work right when "auto-boot" is enabled. auto-boot?=false carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

23 years, 2 months

WTD: Datasheets for PMC Sierra modem chips

by philpem＠bigfoot.com

Hi, I've just been going through a load of old boards that I had occupying space and I'd like to put some of the components to good use. I've already located datasheets for a Motorola DSP56001FE27 digital signal processor I found (time to build an MP3 player!), but a few of the parts have turned up dead ends for data. The parts in question are Sierra Semiconductor (now PMC-Sierra) SC11011CV/ADA, SC11026CN and SC22201CN chips, used on what appears to be an old modem. I've had a look on FreeTradeZone (free? not bloody likely) and the datasheets have been locked (the chips are obsolete). Anyone got PDFs (or paper copies) of these datasheets? I'd like to get these chips doing something (other than taking up valuable space), but it's a bit diffiicult without the datasheets! Thanks. -- Phil. philpem(a)bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/

23 years, 2 months

Some new finds and Some Wanted Items

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Thanks but I already have 2 LC550's in the collection. These 34 or so >are the one's I really need to make it complete. It started out as 103 >models but now because models I didn't know about but have picked over >the years it may end up over 150 different models. I will print the >list once the collection is done. Thanks for the offer. You are being a little more religious than I. I just want one of every major model (so Performa 475, LC 475 or Quadra 605, doesn't matter to me, since they are all the same model... also I'm not going after getting a 475,476,478 or other submodels). I am sure once I get one of every major model, I will then probably follow in your footsteps and try to get one of everything out there. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 2 months

expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > Christopher Smith wrote: > > I'm not sure whether there were any compilers available that > > didn't require disk drives. It would have been possible (not > > fun) given the proper programs. > Fortran II could compile from paper tape on the IBM 1620. > The PDP-8 had I think a paper tape version of fortran too, > but not sure > what version, II or IV. ... but we were talking about the Tandy Color Computer, specifically. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 2 months

Some new finds and Some Wanted Items

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Performa 466, 467, 550, 275,, 560, 577,578, 658 How specific are you to the titel stamped on the case? I can give you an LC 550, but not a "Performa" 550. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 2 months

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