test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>X-Server-Uuid: 1b77f47c-118c-11d5-bbc5-0002a5132c3d >X-Authentication-Warning: ns2.ezwind.net: majordom set sender to owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org using -f >X-Sender: rigdonj(a)pop-server.cfl.rr.com >Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 15:29:52 >To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >From: Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> >Subject: Re: 2708 Programming Algorithm? >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-WSS-ID: 10C80D742279406-01-02 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Steve, > > I don't have the programming instructions for the 2708 but I do have them for the intel 8708 and intels later manuals state that they're the same. Here's what I have in the sept 1975 8080 Microcomputer Systems User's manual. > Hi I believe the main difference between the 2708 and 8708 is that the 8708 could handle negative levels on the data bus so it could be connected directly to the 8080's data bus. Dwight

23 years, 11 months

2708 Programming Algorithm?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>>> I just remember that all the 87xx parts, 8741, 8755, 8748/49, etc, were all >>> 5-volt parts. further, I'm not at all sure that the 8080 had below-ground >>> signal levels, since they were intended to be attached to bipolar parts, e.g. >>> 8212, etc, which would have been intolerant of that. What I've got in my lap >>> is the 8080A data, which may, actually be different, but IIRC, the 8080 needed >>> the negative bias supply so it could swing to ground and the +12 so it could >>> swing to a reasonable high level. My only contact with the 8080 was on boards >>> made by Intel, and, while I poked around with a 'scope and other gear from >>> time to time, I don't recall ever finding an address, data, or control signal >>> that wasn't TTL compatible. Wrong! the 8080 and 8080A had basically the same levels and drive. the issue of negitive voltages on the output is a red herring. The 8708 accoring to the 1978 8048 manual is a THREE voltage part with the exact pinout as 2708. It's of course an intel number to allow the "kitting: practice that intel did do back then... "FAE>>> ya gotta use 8xxx parts". Now for a note, looking at the 1979 Intel component data book the 2708 is listed and save for a faster programming method the 8708 is identical per notation in the data book! Recommended programming pusle width is .1 to 1 millisecond and the programming loop should not program any location for more than a total of 100mS. Though I remember programmin them using a 1ms pulse and doing a read to see if it took, programming it 5 times more for over program and looping till it took and moving on to next location. If a location took more than 90 hits is was flagged as bad. That seemed to get the best life out of the parts according to my notes. FYI: over eraseing them seemed to kill them too. Programming voltage is nominal 26V pulsed! All other votages are static (Vcc, Vdd and Vss) with *ce/we being driven as needed for read or write. > That's not the point. The point is that the inputs and outputs are TTL (0V/5V) level and not a negative voltage. FWIW IIRC even the 8008 had a fan out of more than one. I have the manual and can look if it matters. Correct it was 2 LS loads. And the old 4004 was ttl if used with the correct supply voltages -10 and +5 wich was typical of the PMOS logic. Allison

23 years, 11 months

Northstar Horizon Stuff

by geoff＠pkworks.com

The Rhode Island Computer Museum ( see www.osfn.org/ricm ) would be very interested in your NorthStar Horizon parts. We have an Horizon chassis, backplane/motherboard and wooden cover (in "repairable" shape), but precious little else, and I am looking to fix that omission. Please note that the Rhode Island Computer Museum is an IRS-recognized 501(c) charitable organization, so any donations made are tax deductible. Please contact me at your earliest convenience: Mr. Geoffrey G. Rochat Vice President, Rhode Island Computer Museum 1 Barrows Rd. Mendon, MA 01756 geoff(a)pkworks.com 508-478-1748 -----Original Message----- From: Brain, Jim <JBrain(a)aegonusa.com> To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, May 06, 2002 6:04 PM Subject: Northstar Horizon Stuff >I just found some old N* Horizon parts during a cleaning fit. I have the >following: > >Lots of hard sector disks >2 64 RAM board. >2 FD controllers >2 Z80B boards >2 FD drives >1 motherboard > >I do have the cases (with the PS and such, but only until Thursday, since >they are scheduled to be pitched this week. They aren't in the best of >shape, and they are SO heavy, so I pulled what I thought was worth the >shipping weight cost out of the 2 units. If you do want a case part or a >capacitor, let me know before Thursday so I can have my wife pull the part >off the chopping block. > >Anyone interested in S100 parts and hard sector disks? The units were >working last time I used them, but that was 5 years ago. I make no >promises. If there are a few folks, I want to spread the wealth. > >Basically, I just don't want the parts to sit in the landfill. > >You might want to email me directly, to not clog up the list, and because I >have limited access to email this week while out of the office and lists >will probably get queued until next week. > >Jim > > >Jim Brain, jbrain(a)aegonusa.com >"Researching tomorrow's decisions today." >(319) 369-2070 (work) >SYSTEMS ARCHITECT, ITS, AEGON FINANCIAL PARTNERS > > > >

23 years, 11 months

2708 Programming Algorithm?

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> > >>>> I just remember that all the 87xx parts, 8741, 8755, 8748/49, etc, >were all >>>> 5-volt parts. further, I'm not at all sure that the 8080 had >below-ground >>>> signal levels, since they were intended to be attached to bipolar >parts, e.g. >>>> 8212, etc, which would have been intolerant of that. What I've got >in my lap >>>> is the 8080A data, which may, actually be different, but IIRC, the >8080 needed >>>> the negative bias supply so it could swing to ground and the +12 so >it could >>>> swing to a reasonable high level. My only contact with the 8080 was >on boards >>>> made by Intel, and, while I poked around with a 'scope and other gear >from >>>> time to time, I don't recall ever finding an address, data, or >control signal >>>> that wasn't TTL compatible. > > >Wrong! the 8080 and 8080A had basically the same levels and drive. the >issue >of negitive voltages on the output is a red herring. I guess I'm wrong here. I just remember something about negative swings but it was a long time ago. > >The 8708 accoring to the 1978 8048 manual is a THREE voltage part with >the exact pinout as 2708. It's of course an intel number to allow the >"kitting: >practice that intel did do back then... "FAE>>> ya gotta use 8xxx parts". They did make changes in some cases with the leading number. The 4702A was different than the 1702A in that the negative rail could be -10V instead of -9V, although, the 4702A would program and function at -9V. Maybe this is what was confusing me. > >Now for a note, looking at the 1979 Intel component data book the 2708 >is >listed and save for a faster programming method the 8708 is identical per >notation in the data book! > >Recommended programming pusle width is .1 to 1 millisecond and the >programming loop should not program any location for more than a total >of 100mS. Though I remember programmin them using a 1ms pulse and >doing a read to see if it took, programming it 5 times more for over >program and looping till it took and moving on to next location. If a >location >took more than 90 hits is was flagged as bad. That seemed to get the >best life out of the parts according to my notes. FYI: over eraseing >them seemed to kill them too. These can be baked if they are in the ceramic package. This brings them back to life. When I was in the lab, we did this often. I don't recall the temeperature we used. The 2716's were more robust. We left some under the UV light for weeks and had no data retention problems ( although, we only required them to hold for about 6 months instead of 10 years ). Dwight > >Programming voltage is nominal 26V pulsed! All other votages are static >(Vcc, Vdd and Vss) with *ce/we being driven as needed for read or write. > > >> That's not the point. The point is that the inputs and outputs are >TTL (0V/5V) level and not a negative voltage. FWIW IIRC even the 8008 >had a fan out of more than one. I have the manual and can look if it >matters. > > >Correct it was 2 LS loads. And the old 4004 was ttl if used with the >correct supply >voltages -10 and +5 wich was typical of the PMOS logic. > >Allison > >

23 years, 11 months

2708 Programming Algorithm?

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> FYI: over eraseing them seemed to kill them too. Intel ROMs also had another strange behavior when exposed to too much UV... they'd only work with a little light (possibly needing some UV). I may have told this one before, but one embedded system I did suddenly stopped working when we close it up in a box. Open it up, it would work. On my suspicion that light was involved, we ran it in a dark room; no run. Shined a flashlight on it, ran fine! A conversation with an Intel tech verified this was possible. Too strange, tho... -dq

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Names like "chooser" >for something that doesn't choose, and "finder" for something that doesn't >find, is pretty confusing. Well... the Chooser is used to "choose" your printer (and network server, and sometimes fax modem, or PDF converter, and occasionaly a scanner, and once in a while some other stuff) And the Finder is used to find and locate your files on the hard drive, floppy drive, or other storage device... as well as to launch them, modify them, copy them, delete them, and do pretty much anything else that interacts with them, or applications, or many other parts of the Mac. What's so confusing about that? :-) (yes, that is a joke... Finder and Chooser are some fairly odd names for what they do) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 11 months

free DEC M7555 card

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> > I've been wondering, based on some old posts to the CP/M groups. Will >the same disk, for example an ST251, format and work off either an MFM >or an ESDI controller? Totally true, totally false, depends on drive? > For that mmatter, is there a good newbie-level reference for the 2 >interfaces? They were history when I started playing with keyboards, >and I never dreamed I'd need to know. The problem with EDSI was it sued the same cables as MFM IE: the pair of 26 pin and 34pin. The interfaces however were toally incompatable. No, a St251 would not interface to EDSI. It will interface to both MFM and RLL though RLL may/may_not be reliable with that drive. I have used ST225s with RLL controllers to get ~30mb from them (st225 is 20mb MFM). Allison

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor, Anything !Windows = Cryptic ?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Maybe someday someone will write a DOSEMU that works like > DOS, and a WINE that > actually executes Windows App's. That would go a long way to > ending the MS > monopoly on user-friendly, and make it possible for 3rd-party > application > developers to get up some applicatons that really work. Heh -- I'm sure M$ has a monopoly on something, but it certainly isn't "user-friendly..." Even if you define user-friendly as "acting just like windows," there are a few other things around, regrettably, that do that these days. That aside, though, have you tried Wine recently? It's coming along nicely, and DOSEMU looks a lot like DOS to me. Did you mean to single DOS out as being "user-friendly?" I ask because it doesn't strike me as exceptionally so... Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

Interak (was Re: Research Machines Link 480Z)

by errol.page＠btinternet.com

Peter, I have a lot of old Interak stuff, including literature. It is in my loft and will be thrown away (I keep saying). Is it of interest to anyone. Cheers Errol

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > What's an AMIGA path? A path such as you'd use on a Commodore Amiga? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by mythtech＠mac.com

> My interests and experiences >have been concentrated on microelectronics and microcomputers, which, if you >think about it ( assuming you can do that without spouting off first ) ... >> I have friends with the IQ of a potato, who have less than 5+ years of >> non daily use of a Mac, and know far more than Richard appears to know. >> >... and I'm sure that applies to you too, since birds of a feather flock >together ... ... and from earlier... > When you get old enough that you're out in the working world, I can officially shout... I DID IT... I PISSED OFF RICHARD!!! WooHoo!!! Have a nice day :-) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by mythtech＠mac.com

>... and just exactly where does one find a precise reference to this >convention? I can't quote a source, but I can say that traditionally, in English, all caps refers to an anacronym. And since MAC has something it stands for, each and every time you refer to a Macintosh as "MAC" you are in fact refering to something other than the Macintosh computer. And typing it as MacIntosh is just simply wrong. Look at any literature by Apple, you will never see it with a capitol I. I think that is a throw off from people that are typing it via the name of the fruit, which is ALSO wrong, since the name of the fruit is McIntosh (no a). Its just a pet peeve... I'm not going to really care if you continue to type it MAC... but doing so shows a gross ignorance of the platform, and really undermines any and all arguments you may have to say for or against it. You can't really take someone seriously in discusssions of a system if they can't refer to it correctly, as it just shows that they have spent so little time dealing with the system, that they clearly can't base their statements on anything educated. It doesn't matter if it is the Mac, or if it is something else. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 11 months

Altos MP/M copyright status, more.

by jbdigriz＠dragonsweb.org

Well, I just looked over the shelf for Pat and see I have MP/M, Microfocus Cobol, and Wordstar for the Altos 8000. Anyone know whether any of these have been released to pd or under free-as-in-beer license or anything? I will google, but I see a number of others here have Altos machines, and thought somebody might know straight off. Thanks, jbdigriz

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > require I learn the path names to the objects on which I want > to operate. Not required, but just for information, Mac pathnames are traditionally colon-separated in a similar manner to Amiga paths. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

Compucorp 326 Scientist for sale

by pmchapman＠adelphia.net

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2022542209

23 years, 11 months

free DEC M7555 card

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Megan <mbg(a)TheWorld.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, May 06, 2002 9:14 AM Subject: Re: free DEC M7555 card > >>This is a RQDX3 ESDI hard disk controller. > >RQDXn is not ESDI at all.. it is MSCP. Further edification on the subject. RQDXn is MSCP host controller with MFM hard disk interface as well as a floppy interface for RX50 or RX33. EDSI is a disk interface. Allison

23 years, 11 months

2708 Programming Algorithm?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 14:20, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Now I'm really confused, Joe. Thanks for stirring the coals, though. > > I can't find any Intel memory data before '82, and by that time they were on > 5-volt-only EPROMs all the way. The brocheure I'm thinking of, with respect > to that 8748 evaluation board, has the "it's a 5-volt world" slogan that Intel > liked to use in promoting the 2716 back then, but I'll find the '78 8748 book > eventually, since I just looked at it yesterday. > > >I do believe you've misread part of the spec's, Joe. The 8708, IIRC, is a > > >5-volt-only version of the 2708, otherwise masqueraded as the 2758. I hate to disappoint you, Dick, but my Intel 1979 Data Book lists the 2708 and 8708 on the same page, with the note "All 8708 specifications are identical to the 2708 specifications", and then proceeds to describes all he characteristics of a standard 3-rail EPROM. The 1976 book i referred to earlier does list them in separate sections, but I don't see any significant difference in characteristics, not even in input voltage range. I think you're confusing it with the 2758, which the same catalog shows right after the 2716, identical in all respects except that the 2758 has A(R) on pin 19 instead of A10. A(R) has to be low for all device access, even "standby" mode, except in the case of -S1865, when it has to be high. It would appear that the 2758 is in fact a one-half-working 2716. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 13:30, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's not difficult to do, since everything ends up in "MyDocuments" as a > default. Now, with very little effort at all, you CAN, indeed, lose a file. > However, if you use the Find command (assuming you know the name of the file, > or at least an extension), there's some help there. ...providing what you're looking for is not the file needed by find.exe itself. cf Windows' infamous message to the effect that that "one of the files that find.exe requires is missing". This is a well-known problem with Windows XP, at least, and there's a specific article about it on Microsoft's website. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by mythtech＠mac.com

>It's spelled WITH the 'a' in it at the grocery store ... they are a mite >tart, >but make decent pie ... Humm... I'll have to check that if I go to the store tonight, I could have sworn they list them as McIntosh Apples on the shelf tag and the little annoying fruit stickers stuck on them. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Where the files go is a function of the applicaton, and less > of the OS. Actually, MacOS has -- and I thought windows had too -- allowed for the OS to make some overrides. Any application that uses the standard file dialog may ask for the location to be set somewhere, but the system can override that. It's my impression that this is done on windows 2000, and on mac OS 8, at least. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

New haul/request for info

by pat＠purdueriots.com

Hi all, I just got back a few hours ago from grabbing a few 'toys' to play with: - Altos 580-B02, dual 5-1/4" drives, software - Altos 8000-15A, dual 8" floppies - "User manual" for the Altos Series 5, Xerox'd - Televideo TV-925 w/user manual and maintenance manual - 3xOsborne-1's, at least two need some repair. - Commodore VIC20 with "all the fixin's" I've managed to get an Osborne 1 to power up, it looks to have a stuck bit on the video memory (bad DRAM perhaps). I don't have software. Does anyone have software for this? The Altos 580 and 8000 don't 'work out of the box.' The 8000 supposedly needs a new powersupply. The 580 has an unknown problem - the power supply seems to be putting out power OK, and swapping the floppy drive DS jumpers around didn't help. Right now, it lights the 'in use' light on Drive 0, spins the disk motor as soon as power is applied, and then the motor turns off and the disk spins down almost immediately. I don't get any output from the serial port marked 'JA' (I've tried both straight through and null-modem cables). Pressing the 'reset' button (is that what it is?) on the front doesn't seem to do anything. Does anyone have any info that'd help me repair the 580? I've got a good amount of electronics knowledge/experience, and have a scope laying around I know how to use... Also, I need to get some software for the ACS 8000. I've got a set of IBM 8" floppy disks, but no software for the machine. Thanks for the help. -- Pat

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > If you configure *nix well, it's still cyptic and impenetrable to the > uninitiated. Well, if you want it to act like windows, configure it to act like windows. In fact, go one step better: give the user a menu of N choices, where N is the number of tasks you require of them. That removes all guess-work. Nothing would prevent you from doing that. I guess my point here is that user interface is not such a problem when choosing different platforms. You can always get (or write) an add-on, and probably much more easily than you can get or write an add-on which will do, for instance, file restriction by ACL. Of course, I have my UI preferences, and you have yours, but when it comes down to it, they're similar enough already that you can make one act "close enough" to the other to avoid confusion most of the time. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

free DEC M7555 card

by cdl＠proxima.ucsd.edu

> Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 09:04:23 -0400 (EDT) > From: Megan <mbg(a)TheWorld.com> > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: free DEC M7555 card > > > >This is a RQDX3 ESDI hard disk controller. > > RQDXn is not ESDI at all.. it is MSCP. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer Well, it is MSCP on the software side. But it is ST506 on the hardware side. And only a small selected set of ST506 drives at that. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > OTOH, with user-friendly systems, you just install the driver > and reboot. Any decently modern system can be treated in that fashion, more or less. I would be surprised to find one that had been modified since 1982 that would not do that. > you don't have to reboot. When I add another drive, for > example. It's > possible to do that without much more than a 'mount' > directive under *nix as > well, isn't it? Yep, the difference there being that if you're adding a drive to an interface that's already configured, there's no driver problem at all. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by mythtech＠mac.com

>I fear that your `anacronym' is an anacronism and what you really meant >was acronym - a synthesized word made from the first characters of the >words of a (group or organizational) name. > Yup, that is what I wanted. >> have spent so little time dealing with the system, that they clearly >> can't base their statements on anything educated. It doesn't matter if it >> is the Mac, or if it is something else. > >Hmmmm! Case in point... I have shown my lack of education in language time and time again, my grammar, and spelling, are horrible. I have little grasp of the fundimentals of ANY language, and people would be ill-advised to listen to much of an argument I might present regarding language use. I failed my way thru all english classes from grade school thru college. (I am fluent however in mumble-ese) So it would be expected that I would make such a mistake above. But then, I haven't tried to argue language concepts since I put my foot in my mouth regarding sentense structure some time back. (I don't consider correcting MAC to Mac to be a language argument, rather a usuage arguement for lack of a better word, along the lines of pointing out that PS/2 is an IBM computer, and PS2 is a Sony game system... you don't need to know language for that, you just need to know how the terms are used by their respective groups) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 11 months

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test-drb