test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by classiccmp＠trailing-edge.com

OK, spring cleaning time again. Free for pickup in the Washington DC suburbs: strictly first-come, first-serve, and I strongly want to get rid of the stuff this weekend. Some items are large and will require a truck (or a truly full-size station wagon.) If interested, drop an E-mail to me at "shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com" or call on my cellphone at 202-320-9410. OK, the list - largely an inventory of stuff that hasn't been used in at least two years: 40 RL01 and RL02 packs, with various diagnostics and other tools on them. A Wright-line cabinet with the metal racks for holding the above packs. 6 RL01 and RL02 drives. Rack-mounting rails for the same. RX02 drive unit. Gobs of RL01 and RL02 cables. Also, all my miscellaneous RL termiantors, buttons, unit select plugs, and lamps. 2 Storagetek 1600/6250 BPI 9-track drives, Pertec formatted interface, rack- mounting hinges. Many BA11- and BA23-style Q-bus enclosures. Bunch of 11/23-era CPU's and memory for whoever takes the enclosures. One pedestal-style BA23 with most (all?) of a Microvax III in it. One BA123 with most (all?) of a Microvax II in it. PDP-11/04 in 5.25" high box, H777 power supply. Several H960 (6-foot) racks will be available, assuming that you (or someone else) will help me carry them up the stairs. A bunch of Trimm drive enclosures for 5.25" drives. Styled like BA23's. Many 5.25" FH SCSI and ESDI drives. Many 5.25" floppy drives. Many Shugart 8" floppy drives. Tim.

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by mythtech＠mac.com

>(1) Several guys believe that using Windows obscures much of the power of >the >computer from the user. Is that important if the user's needs are met? > >(2) Several guys believe that using Unix/Linux is "Better." Why? If the >user's needs are met, what does it matter how it happens? > >(3) Several (at least one, probably more) Mac advocates have stated that the >Mac offers more efficiency. How does that figure? How does it help so long >as the needs of the user are met? > >(4) What does it matter which OS or hardware arrangement is "better" if the >user's functional and budgetary requirements/limitations are met? I think it has become clear... the reason why Richard can't grasp why something might be better than Windows is simply because he doesn't grasp that maybe, there are better ways of doing things. He seems content with successfully doing a task, and cares not about making that task easier, faster, or more "pleasant". For instance, I can flip a burger on a hot grill with my fingers. What does it matter if I use a spatula, I got the job done didn't I? My needs were met weren't they? And I even saved money up front since I didn't have to buy anything to flip the burgers. However TCO of this method will rapidly become apparent when I start burning myself. My "user experience" will decrease since I will have sore fingers. I will also start racking up bills on aloe cream to soothe the burns. But my needs were met, and I did it with a cheaper setup than my neighbor who bought the grill tools set, so why should I admit that there may be a better way... it doesn't matter, I can flip burgers just fine already. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 11 months

List Exodus (Was: Re: Kai Kaltenbach (was: RE: What other lists are there?)")

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> > On Tue, 7 May 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > > > > > > > > A lot of folks > > > > > > > > who had a lot to contribute here have left because of this problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Got any examples to back that statement up? > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck McManis, Andrew Davies, Tim Shoppa... I'm sure there are more who > > > > > > chose to simply make silent departures. > > > > > > > Eric Smith too -- miss him. Eric stays very busy, and I think that's a common theme amongst the members of the exodus. They don't have the *time* to wade through the noise to get to the signal. However, I think some seemingly absent members might be lurking. Steve Robertson is one example who comes to mind. Eric remains everpresent on USENET, and co-collaborator Al Kossow continues to scan the list for comment-worthy material, so if you ring Erics's bell loudly enough, I think you'll get his attention. Others noted missing: Chris Kennedy (I fear my carburetor thread chased him off); Mark Crispin; Daniel Seagraves; Lance Costanzo; Rob Kapteyn; David Betz; Dave Mabry; Lawrence LeMay; Brian Wheeler; Brian Knittel; Dave Babcock; Clint Wolff; Curt Vendel; Jim Arnott; Shawn Rutledge; Edwin P. Groot; Brian Chase; Mike McFadden. If I keep digging through personal correspondance, I'm sure I'll find more. We didn't hear much from Allison until recently; did I just recently see a post from Megan? R. D. Davis was gone or silent for a long time (and please don't anyone use this as an opportuniyy for a gouge) My Co-Cyber Conspirator Greg Travis subscribed and unsubscribed in the very same day. Now, I'd like to believe in many cases, that people just get busy, and as you all know, if you subscribe to this list in non-digest mode, you MUST service your inbox or routed folder DAILY or you will just fill up. So I suspect some of these people unsub, then sub back up briefly to test the waters. They don't see what they like, they unsub again. Others may have switched to digest mode but don't post because there's not enough signal to be of interest. Oops, I forget I run at 1280 x 1024, and a windowfull of text might be pages for others, so I'll cut this short... -dq

23 years, 11 months

Visit Pueblo! QpNq22uuQ8

by hartfordtrHAff＠btamail.net.cn

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23 years, 11 months

Vacation in Pueblo i889AY-mMNh-qr

by hartfordesr1NF＠btamail.net.cn

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23 years, 11 months

Visit Pueblo Wmx9NkXP-12ehAC-5GUqnVkG

by hartfordSHR1Z3＠btamail.net.cn

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23 years, 11 months

New acquisitions

by john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org

Well, after swinging past Dave Woyciesjes' a week ago Saturday, I now have 2 HP DeskJet Plus' and 1 HP DeskJet 500 (Thanks Dave =] ). Nifty little Inkers, I loved those series because I could never get them to die. I also have acquired though other sources an old NYNEX telecom box that appears to be for Digital Lines (from Demarc to RJ48 and out to a cable that has RJ48 on one end and a custom pinned (?) DB15 with 6 actual pins connected that I'd have to assume is either RS232 or V.35. The unit was taken off a wall in an abandoned office my co. had gone into to rewire for new owners. I have also acquired more DB9 to Type 1 "vampire" Token Ring cables, approximately 2 meters long in the same job. Anyone interested in the box and cable or the Token cables since I literally have about 10 of them? Possibly in trade for a Madge PCI Token Ring NIC or so? Also, anyone know of a device to cross the gap between Token Ring and Ethernet, such as a bridge? I'm looking to have my 16/4 Token Ring talk to a non-upgrade-able Ethernet system and have it go out to my broadband connection. Any ideas? I apologize ahead of time for not immediately replying, for I am in the middle of a stubborn upgrade of my PC motherboard to a Bio-Star M7VKD Pro from my failing ABIT KT7A, so since documentation, etc. are not fully abundant, it may be a day or two before I read the list again. -John ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html - site down for maintainance ---------------------------------------

23 years, 11 months

Evolution of the WIMP (Windows/Icons/Menus/PointingDevice) Interface (Was: Re: APPLEVISION Monitor,, No shell = No power)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Simple. I hate reaching for a mouse/trackball that's a mile away when my > hands are already positioned on the keyboards. It's sooo much easier not > having to use a mouse and keyboard at the same time. In fact, I'd venture > to say it's easier to use a keyboard than a mouse, in part for the same > reason the Mac has a menubar at the top of the screen... you KNOW without > thinking about it where all the keys are on the keyboard (if you're a > half-decent typist). Thinks you have to point and click at on the screen, > using a mouse, you don't have the same spacial relationship with, and thus > it's more difficult to hit things exactly. Both the mouse and keyboard are true Fitt's Law devices. However, I think you might be right for keyboards that perfectly match the combo of forearm length and finger/hand size for a given person (i.e. there is no universally perfect keyboard). I was a two-finger typist from 1976 until 1991. Once day while writing an article (for the Cobb Group's Inside QuickBasic), I realized I was no longer looking at the keyboard and my fingers were resting on the home row. The keyboard: The Mac Extended II. OTOH, except for text entry, my right hand is always lighty resting on the mouse, the left hand on keyboard home row. -dq

23 years, 11 months

Changing Subject Lines (Was: RE: Cryptic Unix Arcana (was: Re: APPLEVISION Monitor, Anything !Windows = Cryptic ?)")

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> > > From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" <spc(a)conman.org> > > > Message-Id: <200205070202.WAA10268(a)conman.org> > > > Subject: Cryptic Unix Arcana (was: Re: APPLEVISION Monitor, Anything > > !Windows = Cryptic ?) > > > > OH... MY... GOD! > > > > Sombody actually changed the subject line of this > > thread-from-Hell-that-just-wont-go-away! > > > > Thank you, Sean... this might revive my interest... > > > > ;) > > 'seems like almost everybody has a few things to say ... > > Dick But the thread long ago ceased having much to do with the monitor of your original inquiry. Wasn't suggestiing the discussion should stop... just that people should edit the subject line once the topic shifts... -dq

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor, Anything !Windows = Cryptic ?

by nemesis-lists＠icequake.net

Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 07:34:39 +0000 X-Mailer: Pyne 0.6.9 (Linux) Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1020756426.880772@localhost> Ben Franchuk wrote: > In my view that what I don't like about linux/unix -- the design > of the architecture is still based on very primitive user I/O devices > and a mode of computing that is not realistic today. It's quite realistic if you depend on programs being able to talk to each other, and being able to operate them in a simplistic manner when necessary. For end users, it might be inconvenient (which is why we now have multiple abstractions in the form of desktop environments, GUI programs, and what-have-you), but the mere existence of the capability for a simplistic interface does not force the user to go through that interface. e.g., you can use vi or pico if it suits you, and it's definitely easier for a script to use something like 'ed', but as a user, you're obviously not forced into only using those programs, as there are programs with arguably much more intuitive interfaces to do the same tasks. -- Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net>, icq=10317253

23 years, 11 months

Heathkit Sweet-P plotter

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Does anyone have a copy of the manual for this? Or can at least post the specs for it? A Google search found nothing. Joe

23 years, 11 months

Kai Kaltenbach (was: RE: What other lists are there?)

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> Kai was on this list? I knew him in the 80's when he was coding on a > Citadel BBS..... Yes, back in the '97-98 timeframe. Zane

23 years, 11 months

What other lists are there?

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> On Tue, 7 May 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > > > > A lot of folks > > >> > who had a lot to contribute here have left because of this problem. > > >> > > >> Got any examples to back that statement up? > > > > > > Dave McGuire. Not an insignificant loss, in my book. > > > > Did I miss that? I don't recall him publicly bidding the > > list farewell? There certainly is a considerable amount of > > experience that left with the people already mentioned that have > > unsubscribed. > > He didn't post a resignation, no. He did, in private email, cite a > couple of folk in particular as irritants, but I think it was the > overall picture that got him fed up. Woa, when did this happen? Come to think of it, I haven't seen any posts from Sridhar, either. Come back, guys! Without the Dave & Sridhar Show, life is losing its meaning! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

23 years, 11 months

IRIX on Personal Iris

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 7, 7:13, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Well, my latest toy is here, but it looks like I screwed up a little when I > picked up an IRIX CD for it. I got 'IRIX 5.3 for Indy R4400 175MHz', but > according to http://sgistuff.g-lenerz.de/ this version is Indy-specific-- I > need the plain vanilla 5.3 CD, or 5.3 XFS. Anyone have one to trade? Or > maybe even 4.x? Many of the ones listed as Indy-specific are merely lacking a boot file for Indigo and earlier systems. I installed 5.3 onto the Indigos in the next room from "IRIX 5.3 for Indy including R5000", having booted the miniroot >from an older release. > Also, if anyone has a source for 8MB simms, keyboards, and mice I'd be > interested. You can upgrade a 4MB SIMM to an 8MB one very easily -- just add the chips and change one (? IIRC) SMD resistor. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > weren't present and functional with no way of figuring out > what the problem > was because of the doc-shortfalls, was too much work. It was > easier to do > with NT. Honestly, the easiest O/S installs I've ever done on a system where the O/S needed "installed" were IRIX and VMS. Strange? Maybe, but as far as I'm concerned, those are each a monument to good installation methods. > work on? I know lots of *nix guys like to type a couple of > lines of cryptic > stuff before their computer allows access to a resource that would be > point-n-click accessible under Windows. Maybe they're willing to type a couple lines for the sake of the added reliability, maybe it's easier for them to type it out than to grab the mouse... or maybe they're stupid, and think typing makes them look impressive. (I'd certainly like to think that it would be one of the former, but considering some people I've seen around, using and advocating Unix, I'm not so sure) :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Alex White [mailto:meltie@myrealbox.com] > UNIX as a system to use personally is only cheap if you don't > value your > free time. (well-worn but useful quote.) Disclaimer: I only use stuff > that ain't MS at home. I find this is the case for windows, but not Unix. I have some Unix machines at home, which never give me any trouble. I haven't had a problem with either system in three years that wasn't a hardware problem. In other words, they "just work." The system I've had for longer than three years hasn't given me any software problems since I was messing around with experimental drivers, and that was my own fault. I've had hard drives die after years of continuous use (but I keep backups...), and I've had the processor cook itself on one system when the fan gave out, but again, that's a hardware problem. Now, if you need a rock-solid system, rather than just a passable one, then you can use VMS, but Unix works most of the time, and better than windows and MacOS, in my experience. ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

Recent Acquisitions

by lists＠subatomix.com

Schoolwork has kept me busy for the last few months, but I did manage to find a few things recently at the local university surplus outlet. 2x metal 9-track magtape storage cabinets, about 5'Hx4'W 1x Macintosh Quadra 950, for a friend The magtape cabinets don't compute, but I'm very excited to find them. I've been needing something in which to store all the magtapes I've begun to acquire. The cabs are a little rusty, but that's nothing a little paint job this summer won't take care of. I'm thinking PDP-11 red-and-maroon might be nice colors for it. I just missed a big old reel-to-reel audio recorder. I saw it go out the door. It was quite large and rolled around on its own floorstand. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists(a)subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first.

23 years, 11 months

iMac //c URL

by vcf＠siconic.com

It would help if you had the URL ;) http://www.usennet.ne.jp/~ikawada/iMacIIc/iMacIIc-1.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by mythtech＠mac.com

>> I'm sorry... I just can't do it any more. >> >Then don't ... When you get old enough that you're out in the working world, >where your performance is measured on whether or not you meet schedule and >budget, and not on how cute your comments are, you'll understand the >realities >of why people use what they do. If you're just idly fiddling with something >interesting at home, nobody cares how long it takes you. Actually... I am in the working world... and the reason I like the Mac so much more is because it IS more productive for the needs here than Windows. I had a whole long winded explination for this, but I decided not to waste bandwidth, and I summed it up to this. Increase in employee productivity, reduction of costs, and reduction of support time directly translate into two things that effect my life. 1: increase in free time 2: increase in year end bonus So where I have flexability to choose what systems are installed... I choose them based on what will maximize the above two points. It is greedy, selfish, and egotistical for me to place my personal choices on everyone else here... but since in order for me to increase what I want, I have to make their lives easier, and I have to reduce costs, no one has yet to complain about my choices. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 11 months

iMac //c

by vcf＠siconic.com

Someone in Japan with a lot of time on their hands apparently put an iMac into an Apple //c. Pretty slick. I hope you can read Kanji. Otherwise, enjoy the pictures. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor, Anything !Windows = Cryptic ?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > However, I'm not > so sure it's as trouble free when you want to use a single > machine to do a > multitude of widely varying things. I find that very funny. I'm not going to argue with it right now, though I don't agree, of course. It's amusing, though, since it's the same argument that I often offer against windows. :) > What? Where's there a Windows emulator for Linux that runs > MSOFFICE? Will, > it at least, run CorelDRAW? How about the Xilinx Foundation Years ago, I used to run CorelDRAW under wine -- this was before windows 95, so it was the 3.1 version of CorelDRAW. It also ran M$ works. I would be surprised if it didn't run some recent version of office or Corel's suite. > software, or > ALtera's Maxplus-II? Not sure about those. > Why don't more people use it then? Is it because, unlike Because they use windows instead -- the majority of them. If they were used to using linux, and if linux had all of the marketing momentum that windows had, they'd use it instead, or if the Grundey corporation had given GrundeyOS the proper marketing at the right time, they'd use that. People use what you hand them. I'm not convinced that popularity can be any indicator of quality. You only need look at the high-quality products in any given market segment to see that. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

DOS "libraries" (was APPLEVISION Monitor)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> >At least with QuickBasic you had the choice of incorporating BRUN45.EXE > >and BRUN45.LIB into the .exe file. I remember that with Borland > >compilers you had to include lots of files such as > >CGA.BGI, HERC.BGI, EGAVGA.BGI together with any application that > >you wrote. > > When I was running both TurboBasic and PowerBasic, neither > one required you to issue 'includes' to access standard video modes. > In over 12 years of running PowerBasic I've never had to link to an > external file. PowerBasic also compiles into fairly small > executable's, which are the only thing required unless there are > datafiles that the programmer required to be present. I never liked > the way QuickBasic required the distribution of it's external library > with the executable, especially since you never quite knew which > version of it a given program would require as things changed. As Carlos stated above for QuickBASIC, and as I pointed out for the professional BASIC compiler, it is NOT necessary to distribute the external library with the executable. You could create stand-alone executables that required no external support. However, they were not small. Beginning with QuickBASIC 4.0, the ENTIRE C LIBRARY was part of the runtime. And even if you never used graphics statements, all the graphics code got pulled into the executable (in the case of the stand-alone binaries) or was at least present in toto in the separate runtime. This had not been the case with QuickBASIC 3.0 (where I began with QB). I imagine Turbo^H^H^H^H^HPowerBASIC uses the more sensible approach of linking into the executables ONLY the stuff needed. Microsoft could have done this, but they clearly did *NOT* want to devote the resources needed to make it a truly professional product. -dq

23 years, 11 months

DOS "libraries" (was APPLEVISION Monitor)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> And thusly Ben Franchuk spake: > > > > What pisses me off is the fact that both systems use dynamic libraries. > > This makes a real mess of things. I liked dos -- you have a program > > it runs from the .exe non of this you need version blah blah blah ... > > > > DOS sometimes needed library files - take 32-bit protected mode. You need to > have a DOS extender file in the path or directory of the executable. Not just that- the Microsoft BASIC compiler provided two modes of compilation- one that produced HUGE stand-alone binaries, and one that kept the HUGE chunk of common code in a runtime-library. That library had to either be in the current directory or somewhere along the path... -dq

23 years, 11 months

APPLEVISION Monitor

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: John Foust [mailto:jfoust@threedee.com] > Huh? Amiga volume names ended in colon "DH0:" but > the folder names weren't separated by colons in a path string. Ok, so I'm confused. How, are Amiga directories separated, then? > I can't remember an instance where a Mac application allowed the > user to enter the colons, although they were used internally, and > you could use them in some developer tools that gave command > lines or operated on "makefile"s. They're at least few and far between. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

23 years, 11 months

Installing Windows (was: RE: APPLEVISION Monitor)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Feldman, Robert <Robert_Feldman(a)jdedwards.com> >Having just (re)installed Win95 twice in 3 weeks on reformatted hard drives >(trying to install Adaptec CD burning software trashed Windows so badly that >I had to reformat the drive to clean up the mess), I can say that an >installation is not one keystroke. You have to agree to the EULA, enter the >serial number, select the install directory, select the type of install, and >must reboot at least once in the process. As someone that uses winders to make a living. Most of the hearsay I've heard I'd have believed at one time. I do winders installs that are annoying in the number of reboots though with a tweeked install script and some planning that can be cut down some. The only time I do this is when I install a new drive so I do have users running W95osr2 that havent seen a reinstall for years due to care and clearing the junk at install time. If you know how to manage the install you can run W95 successfully (if not slowly) on a 386/16 with a 120mb disk and have it useful. The standard install puts a lot of junk on and it isn't anywhere near optimum for number of reboots or general configuration. However, the real problem is that many of the windows apps can be damaging if installed in the wrong order, or in the case of devices in the wrong way. You learn which ones do and dont work. In my case the adaptec Cd-burner software is the prefered (really!!) one. But it does expose the real problem with W9x, the OS and it's working files and libraries are exposed to bad tempered apps and users which can kill the OS. Do I like winders? No. Is it useful? Yes. Could it be better? You bet! Does it limit me in the work I need to do? Not yet. I've used it for everything from lightweight servers to RT systems. Allison

23 years, 11 months

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