On May 15, 16:29, Tothwolf wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > If I'm *really* lazy, I tie them up in a pillowcase and put them in
> > the (clothes) washing machine, and follow up with the tumble drier.
>
> That would likely be a bad idea, since the keys would scratch against
each
> other. Worst case, all of the lettering would be removed, and best case
> would be a few scratches and dings.
They don't scratch. And no reasonable keyboard has the lettering put on in
such a way that it would rub off in a washing machine. If that were the
case, the legending would rub off in normal use. Nearly all decent keys
are two-part moulded. If that were the case, the legending would rub off
in normal use. The pillowcase/washing machine is a tried and tested
method, and I've heard of lots of people who've used it (I didn't invent
it, though I can't remember who first told me about it).
> > No.1 tip: make a note of the layout before you take the keycaps off.
> > It all looks very logical until you actually try to put *every one* of
> > the symbol keys back in the right place.
>
> Or take a digital photo of the keyboard, or make sure you have an exact
> duplicate keyboard. Grid/graph paper can be very helpful when writing
down
> a layout too.
Better still, yes.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
I have a copy of the SunDisk Flash RAM card driver for the 3000 (and for the
HP95LX), as well as SunDisk card FDISK and FORMAT programs. If anyone wants
them, email me off-list at robert_feldman(at)jdedwards(dot)com.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:11 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip / good Score
<snip>
A SHARP PC 3000. After cleaning out the battery compartment and using
new batteries it worked. DOS 3.1 w/a pcmcia card whose Li. battery is
surely dead as is the notepad's.
And many non-computer items.
The Sharp 3k is a neat little 8088 handheld about the size of an Atari
Portfolio. Sharp brought it out after high sales of it's Poqet but retreated
when some of the heavier-duty co's. attacked that market
Based on the numerous site info it's a great machine related somehow to the
HP95. At least it can use the HP PCMCIA's if I understood correctly.( IIUC)
Anyone here a fan of this hand-held ?
> no, messages from cctech ARE making it to cctalk, I just saw a bunch go
> through. They are the ones with dual list subjects... ie. [CCTALK] [CCTECH]
>
> Jay West
Can the [CCTALK] & [CCTECH] be shortened to something that does't take up
most of the the viewable subject line? I read most CLASSICCMP mail via
'elm' and I'm not seeing enough of the subject to get any idea what the
message is about. Also, do we really need to see both on dual list
messages?
Zane
>We have had lots of fun pitching stuff into
>a 30 yard dumpster when we had one delivered.
But then you can't video tape its impact and edit it into slow motion
among other things.
>We did this on a Sunday morning, I recommend checking when your local
>authorities are not available. It makes a lot of noise and can attract
>attention.
We have a private parking lot... and my sister is a cop on the local
police department, and the PBA holds their meetings in our building. So
even if the cops show up, they are likely to just hang out watch, and
cheer us on.
>It was
>before we realized the potential toxic hazard we were unleashing.
Humm.. hadn't thought about the health hazard. :-(
>A heavy aluminum or steel chassis will make marks in both concrete or
>asphalt.
That's what I'm worried about. I guess I could remove the case to the
monitors and verify that they are just plastic. But I just have this fear
that I will chip the asphalt, and within a season there will be a nice
pothole in the middle of the drive.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
In a message dated 5/16/02 1:19:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Gary.Messick(a)itt.com writes:
>
> ^^^^^^^^^ AAIIIIIEEE!!!! (How could you?)
>
It was not my choice, but my partner's. It was 1989, before I discovered the
list. We couldn't find anyone to sell them to. They are very expensive to
store for the next 10 or 20 years until they are valuable again. At that time
I had no idea they would ever be valuable again. My partner was a scrapper
and we had to move.
Paxton
Astoria, OR
In a message dated 5/16/02 12:22:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mythtech(a)mac.com writes:
> (I am still a little leary to toss a monitor off the top of my office
> building... I'm afraid I'll damage the asphalt... the landlord would kick
> my ass if I did that. But it is only 2 stories so I am thinking about
> it... I don't think a 14" monitor could build up enough energy to damage
> the parking lot on a 30 foot drop... I just haven't gotten the guts up to
> try it and find out)
>
The problem with throwing stuff off rooftops is containing the debris, which,
with a monitor, is considerable. We have had lots of fun pitching stuff into
a 30 yard dumpster when we had one delivered. The first time we were in a
seven story warehouse with stuff on the 7th and 4th floors.
A stereo system dropped from the seventh floor can literally jump out of the
dumpster upon impact. This was the first we tried. Containment works better
when there is a little debris in the bottom. The first few items jumped right
out of the dumpster, bouncing off the metal bottom. Of course they shatter
when hitting the bottom making a mess to clean up when they jumped into the
street.
We did this on a Sunday morning, I recommend checking when your local
authorities are not available. It makes a lot of noise and can attract
attention. In NW Portland Oregon no one came by.
After cleaning the street up of the first items we moved to the 4th floor
where we had 60 Wang Terminal tubes to dispose of. These did not jump out of
the dumpster. The fall from the 4th floor was not as great. They made a great
pop when they hit the dumpster. It was a noisy morning.
The Wang 2200 tubes were over 10 years old so it fits the criteria of the
list, not to mention this was also in 1989, more than 10 years ago. It was
before we realized the potential toxic hazard we were unleashing.
Another time we had to despool several pallets of spooled wire. We took them
up to the roof and dropped the spools into the neighboring parking lot. If
you dropped them just right the spool would come apart and the coil of wire
would rise up about 6 or 8 feet off the ground. Did not damage the parking
lot. Lots of fun for work.
A heavy aluminum or steel chassis will make marks in both concrete or
asphalt. Plastic shatters making a big mess. We preferred to restrain
ourselves until we had a dumpster to toss things into. Properly contained it
can be a lot of fun.
Paxton
Astoria, OR
> From: Davison, Lee <Lee.Davison(a)merlincommunications.com>
> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave
> a thin trace of metal on the glass.
Not to doubt your word, but in my experience metal can scratch glass. The
glass counter-tops in my shop are scratched (not marked) from customers
putting circuit boards on them.
Glen
0/0
> > EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have
> > UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased,
> > but not by casual exposure.
>
> Yes, but every flatbed scanner I've ever seen has a flat
> piece of glass on top (which is optically between the lamp
> and the object-being-scanned). I can't believe they used
> any special glass that was even moderately transparent to
> UV -- it would be expensive and pointless.
But regardless, scanning would be causal exposure, and such
exposure (even if that glass were UV transparent) would be
unlikely to be able to hurt the EPROM.
But the only boards with EPROMs I've ever seen that *didn't*
have labels covering the windows were ones I did myself or
ones where the label glue had dried up and the label fell
off.
FWIW, I usually use silver write-protect tabs or the black
vinyl ones for this purpose; I'd only use white paper on
stuff that shipped so I could write a version number on them.
Dunno if the tabs are available anymore, but I think I still
have a supply...
-dq
Heya,
Does SGI have a timeline or anything up anywhere. I am wondering what
the first SGI workstation was(R2000 right?). I know they made terminals
before that, But i am just wondering about workstations.
Thanks,
Torquil MacCorkle III
Lexington, Virginia
Maybe someone will want to talk to this guy (not me) about his kit?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Flodrowski" <les(a)uwo.ca>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 04:09 PM
Subject: VAX Hardware Anyone?
> We have a dual VAX 4500a (4000-500a) cluster to dispose of.
>
> It consists of the following components:
>
> - 2 VAX 4500a systems clustered with the following storage arrays
> - R400X DSSI Storage cabinet with 6 x DSSI 1.0GB - 1.6GB drives
> - StorageWorks cabinet with 3 x 4.3GB SCSI drives
> - TX87 DLT Tape drive
> - TU81 Plus Magtape drive
> - VAX 4500a system complete spare
>
> At this time we are simply trying to find out if there is
> any interest in the community for these systems. If you are
> interested, and would like to make a serious offer, please
> contact me.
>
> BTW, we also have all media and documentation for VAX/VMS and
> a number of related applications.
>
> ---
>
> Les Flodrowski, les(a)uwo.ca
> Phone: 519 661 3595
> The University of Western Ontario
>
>
>
>> I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the
>> glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads.
>
> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave
> a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily
> remove this is nothing else will.
>>
>> I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the
>> contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered.
>
> Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either.
EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have
UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased,
but not by casual exposure.
Regards,
-dq
I do this sort of thing for Northgate Omnikey keyboards.
Two paper towels, folded on the perf, to the left of the sink.
One margarine dish in the sink.
Fill margarine dish with hot water.
Add a little dishwashing goop (I use Palmolive because it's there).
Pull some key caps from the keyboard.
Put the caps in the margarine dish and swirl them around.
Let them soak, while you pull the next batch of key caps.
Remove and scrub with a sponge one cap at a time, shaking the cap to
remove any excess water before sitting it face down on the paper towels
to dry.
Repeat 'til done.
You'll probably need to move the paper towels (before they get too
covered with caps) and fold another set, maybe twice or three times to
get through the keyboard.
Be careful when pulling big caps, they usually have some supporting
widgetry that can go flying when the cap pops off.
While the caps are drying, you should take the keyboard the rest of the
way apart to blow out any dust and detritus and scrub the casework
(again, dishwashing goop and water, maybe stronger stuff if needed).
Let it all dry before putting it back together.
Once cleaned, I generally wrap a keyboard up in a 13 gallon kitchen
garbage bag to keep it mostly free of dust and critters. Cables can
be coiled up inside the bag too. (Yes, I have a supply of spares...
I use these keyboards!)
-Frank McConnell
> > I've seen a couple of cctech messages passed over to cctalk
> >as well, so I've gotten two copies of those. I also sent a message
> >just to cctech earlier and it errored out for moderator approval
> >because the software complained about a blind cc: being addressed to
> >cctalk, though there was none included on my end.
>
> I got one of those too. It also said that my message was rejected but it
>wasn't. I sent Jay a note about it already.
OK... Now I see what's happening. I received a rejected notice earlier
because I have opted out of the CCTALK list. My posts will appear in CCTECH
but, not in CCTALK and I'll get a rejected notice from CCTALK for each post.
I can live with that. It's certainly better than all the noise I was getting
previously.
To keep the message on topic: I am still undecided about the Junk fest
tomorrow in Orlando. I have a potential scheduling conflict and might have
to pass..
See yas,
SteveRob
_________________________________________________________________
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>From: "Corda Albert J DLVA" <CordaAJ(a)NSWC.NAVY.MIL>
>
>Now, I don't know the construction/nature of the tubes used
>in scanners, but I myself would be wary of photocopying or
>scanning a PC board with an unprotected (i.e. uncovered) EPROM
>window face-down on the scanning surface. My reasoning is
>as follows;
>
>Although a fluorescent tube in good condition shouldn't emit
>much UV, one has to remember the way such a bulb functions.
>The excited gas inside the tube emits almost entirely in the
>UV spectrum. This is converted to the visible spectrum by the
>phospor coating on the inside surface of the tube. Over time,
>I have seen some of the coating flake off the inside of old
>flourescent tubes, providing a bunch of small UV "windows".
The fluorescent tubes used in offices usually have ordinary
glass and in plastic fixtures. I would suspect that the 3 year
period is rather pessimistic. Many scanners use halogen lamps.
These produce quite a bit of UV. Infact, a bare halogen lamp
can be used to erase EPROMs with a fan for cooling. It won't
be fast but it will erase. The glass plate in a scanner still
blocks much of the UV light that would cause damage. I wouldn't
think that running it through a scanner would remove more than
about a months worth of normal aging at most. Covering them
is simple and makes good sense. Still, it is a good idea to
store good data from EPROM's in a different form. I always
make both a *.BIN file and a printout of any of the EPROM's
and most of the ROM's that are in my older equipment. Cosmic
rays will eventually erase any EPROM is leakage doesn't do
it first.
I have some 1702A's that were programmed over 20 years ago
that are working fine ( around 1972, almost 30 years ).
On a side note, ceramic packaged parts will also scratch
glass.
Dwight
>From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net>
>
>On Thu, 16 May 2002, Davison, Lee wrote:
>> Tothwolf wrote:
>>
>> > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of
>> > the scanner due to sharp component leads.
>>
>> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave a thin
>> trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily remove this is
>> nothing else will.
>
>Are you sure? I've scratched glass with metal before, though not with a pc
>board. Most component leads (excluding some of the newer resistors and
>capacitors) are made of a tin plated copper or a copper alloy anyhow, so
>it would seem that they would be less likely to damage something than say,
>steel.
>
>Since we are talking about scratched glass, do you have any ideas on how
>to remove scratches from the face of a CRT?
Hi
Jewelers rouge will remove scratches from glass. It does
depend on the depth. The reason I know this is because
I am also an amateur telescope maker and rouge is a common
material used to polish glass. If the scratch is deep,
you'll need to grind with something like 15 or 5 micron
aluminum oxide.
You'll note that both rouge and aluminum oxide are both
oxides of common metals. These are harder than glass and
can scratch glass under the right condition. Also, carbon
steel wheels are used to scribe glass ( but this isn't
scratching, it is fracturing so this doesn't count but
the results look the same ).
Contact me off group and I can help with your CRT problem.
Dwight
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Innfogra(a)aol.com [mailto:Innfogra@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 3:07 PM
> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
> Subject: [CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops
>
>
<snip>
> After cleaning the street up of the first items we moved to the 4th floor
where we had 60 Wang > Terminal tubes to dispose of. These did not jump out
of the dumpster. The fall from the 4th
> floor was not as great. They made a great pop when they hit the dumpster.
It was a noisy
> morning.
>
> The Wang 2200 tubes were over 10 years old so it fits the criteria of the
list, not to mention
^^^^^^^^^ AAIIIIIEEE!!!! (How could you?)
> this was also in 1989, more than 10 years ago. It was before we realized
the potential toxic
> hazard we were unleashing.
<snip>
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***Found this during my daily perusal of select newsgroups...
Reply directly to this guy.
Subject: Cards and chassis available
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 02:03:18 GMT
From: "Don" <nospam(a)for.me>
Org: Shaw Residential Internet
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
I'm moving and I have to lose a bunch of DEC stuff before mid June.
Come and get it and save it from the dump.
It is in the Toronto Canada area. Mail me for further details.
DEC stuff
===========
* all counts are approximate, some parts are in rough shape, some do not
work
12 BA Chassis DEC part 630QZ-AX
1 spare power supply for above
5 KOM chassis
1 set of binders RSX 11M version 3.1
1 Digital Microcomputers +Memories Handbook 1982
1 TU-56 dual tape drive and some tapes (it works)
1 quad height extender card (used to troubleshoot cards)
2 dual height extender card
9 MXV11 M8047 (ROM and 2 DL)
6 DZ KOM version
20 DZ (made by DEC)
1 dual height memory
2 quad high memory
4 RCC cards (custom part)
3 11/23 cpu
8 11/73 cpu
3 M9400 terminator + rom
misc other
Contact me at dgreer6146-at-shaw-dot-ca
Don
--
--- David A Woyciesjes
--- C & IS Support Specialist
--- Yale University Press
--- (203) 432-0953
--- ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash
>> There's a guy here who had one of those auto-glass repair places buff
>> a bad scrape off his 21" Nokia. Yes, the tube, not the bezel.
>> Personally, I think the person who did the work is certifiably (a)
>> stupid (b) suicidal - take your pick. But they did a great job.
>
>If the damage wasn't very deep, I'd not be too worried about it. The
>thickest part of a glass tube is the face, which could be anywhere from
>1/4" to 1" thick.
I don't know what kind of buffing equipment the guy used, but if it is
like the stuff I have seen used to take scratches out of our fire
trucks... I wouldn't be too worried about buffing a tube.
The last one I TRIED to break, took a good dozen swings with the frame of
a heavy rolling chair before it cracked... and even then, it just
cracked. It took a few more hits before it actually gave out and
collapsed.
Next time I will whack one with a sledge hammer and see how many hits it
takes to get to the center.
(I am still a little leary to toss a monitor off the top of my office
building... I'm afraid I'll damage the asphalt... the landlord would kick
my ass if I did that. But it is only 2 stories so I am thinking about
it... I don't think a 14" monitor could build up enough energy to damage
the parking lot on a 30 foot drop... I just haven't gotten the guts up to
try it and find out)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
Toothpaste is actually a good fine abrasive. I have heard it recommended
before (for polishing scratches from the display panel of a Radio Shack
Model 100). Another product is called "Mirror Glaze." The exhibit staff at
the museum I worked at used it to buff small scratches from Plexiglas
display cases.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 1:49 PM
To: 'cctalk(a)classiccmp.org'
Subject: RE: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards...
<snip>
I've buffed out tiny scratches in the past with (of all things)
toothpaste, but for the more visible but still minor scratches, I need to
find something else.
-Toth
I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the
glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads.
You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave
a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily
remove this is nothing else will.
I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the
contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered.
Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either.
Lee.
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>From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq(a)iglou.com>
>>>> I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the
>>> glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads.
>>
>> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave
>> a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily
>> remove this is nothing else will.
This is not true. Try running your windshield wipers
without the rubber. Although, it may be true that glass
has a hardness greater than most metals, this doesn't
mean it won't get scratched. The problem is that it also
fractures easily ( sometimes at a microscopic level ).
The tiny chips embed in the metal surface and that scratches
the glass. This is a multiplying effect. Also, most oxides
of metal are harder than glass. And lastly, the quartz
windows of the EPROMs are harder than glass.
>>>
>>> I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the
>>> contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered.
>>
>> Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either.
>
>EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have
>UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased,
>but not by casual exposure.
I think he was talking about the glass on the scanner.
Dwight
I've got an Encore Annex (first model), and Encore Annex Two sitting here
that I'm wanting either to get rid of. If I don't get any 'bites', I'll
probably pull the usefull chips and can the rest.
I'm also going to the Dayton Hamvention thingee on Saturday. If anyone
wants to meet me there to get one of these, let me know. If I don't here
a reply by Saturday night, they'll probably end up in pieces.
They both appear to work (I have no software for them...) the lights light
up and the annex one (which has DE9P's so I can hook up a serial console
easily) does its diagnostics ok.
-- Pat