test-drb

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101090 discussions

by loedman1＠juno.com

The following hard drives were delivered to me yesterday, much to my Wife's dismay, and are looking for homes. All are supposed to function and as far as I know have not been erased (hmmm) Free for the actual shipping cost. (1) Conner CP3000 (2) Seagate ST-125 (3) Maxtor 7213AT (4) Maxtor 7245AT (5) Maxtor LXT340A (6) Maxtor MXT540A (3) (7) Conner CFA340A (8) Seagate ST-225 (2) (9) Seagate ST-238R Also received a bunch of miscellaneous chips and cards that I need to sort and identify that will be available Rich Stephenson

23 years, 2 months

Core memory speeds

by Charles＠socketcom.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel [mailto:jos.mar@bluewin.ch] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 12:10 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Core memory speeds > > > On Monday 20 January 2003 12:02 am, ben franchuk wrote: > > Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, > > what was the access and cycle time of core memory > > before it vanished and just when did it do that? > > Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late > > 70's early 80's time frame here since this looks > > to be the transition stage from the the old to > > the new. Ben > > > My 1975 core memory products catalogue ( Philips components ) > lists modules with cycle times ranging from 0.65 to 1.5 us, > both for 8kx18 stacks. > > My newest core memory stack sits in my Philips P856 : > dated 1980, cycle time unknown. > > My own TTL computer, dated 1986, just uses 8kx8 SRAMs...... > > > Jos Dreesen > With core memory the general rule was the smaller the donut the faster the cycle. The real limiting factors have always been the physical size of the array of cores. The plane, a mat of wires with little teeny-tiny ferrite donuts at each intersection, looks electrically like a lot of inductors all strung in series. This is a good configuration for a low pass filter that we are going to put a very fast pulse through. The bottom line of all this is that even fast core memory tends have around 0.490us write cycle times. Read cycles are always twice the write cycle times. This means you need to read the core memory specs carefully. Be sure that you see the both read and write cycle times. If you can only find one it will most likely be the write cycle time.

23 years, 2 months

Intel 8751

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> > >Stan Barr wrote: >> While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a >> couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search >> failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can >> look? >IIRC, the 8751 is an EPROM (windowed package) version of the 8051 MCU. The >thing about the 8051 (and the 8052) is that it can also be used as a CPU - >add a 74LS573 (or 74LS373) latch and a bit of decoding and you can disable >the internal program memory and use external memory instead. This is the EA pin. It controls where the program memory is. The 8031 ( 8032 ) is the version that is sold to be used this way. As far as I know, the 8031's are just units that the mask part failed or overruns of mask 8051 parts. Early on, 8031's, with EPROMs were more common in keyboards and newer keyboards use just 8051's. Dwight I use >8051-derivatives a fair bit - Atmel's AT89S8252 is a particularly nice >chip - basically an 8052 with 8k of internal FLASH memory and an SPI >programming interface. > >Later. >-- >Phil. >philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > >

23 years, 2 months

Apple 1 schematics

by cb＠mythtech.net

In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist anywhere? I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there is no shot in ever getting them. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 2 months

Intel 8751

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Stan Barr" <stanb(a)dial.pipex.com> > >Hi, > >To get back to computers for a change... > >While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a >couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search >failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can >look? > > >-- >Cheers, >Stan Barr stanb(a)dial.pipex.com > >The future was never like this! > > > Hi Stan These are the EPROM version of the 8051's. These can be programmed and used just like the 8031's in keyboards or used in place of a mask ROM 8051, when programmed. I don't recall if Intel published the programming specs for these but there are a lot of programmers that will program these ( often with special adapters :( ). I think Data I/O's don't need anything special other than the 40 pin socket. Look for 8051 family manuals. I think Intel stopped publishing programming specs when they had different flavors of EPROMs with similar names. They wanted to keep the programmer manufactures up to date without worrying about hobbiest blowing their parts up. Dwight

23 years, 2 months

PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed

by tim.myers＠sunplan.com

Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. Tim.

23 years, 2 months

Intel 8751

by glenslick＠hotmail.com

Is it a 40-pin DIP package? OTP/EPROM version of an 8051. http://developer.intel.com/design/mcs51/cf_51.htm >From: Stan Barr <stanb(a)dial.pipex.com> >While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a >couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search >failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can >look? _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

23 years, 2 months

Intellectual 'PROPERTY'

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Stan Barr <stanb(a)dial.pipex.com> wrote: > Of course they're not *really* indigenous, having walked over from > Eastern Asia :-) No, they did not walk over from Eastern Asia. They are descendants of Ka-in who was transported to this continent by helicopter (from E.DIN aka SHU.MER aka Iraq) when the Anunnaki sentenced him to exile for killing Abael. MS P.S. Yes, Ka-in, not Cain. Abael, not Abel. E.DIN, not Eden. SHU.MER, not Sumer. And yes, the Anunnaki ("Those Who from Heaven to Earth Came" in ancient Shumerian), not God. The Bible and the modern "scholars" got it all wrong.

23 years, 2 months

Intellectual "PROPERTY"

by lgwalker＠mts.net

Reading classiccmp today I wanted to puke. I'm sorry, I'm with Stallman, fuck the corporate spin-doctors. In the real world ideas are free and even Bob Dylan was noted for his free use of others material. "Intellectual PROPERTY" ? That's a lawyer's and corporate term. Meaning the extension of material possession law to ideas cause lord knows they've got property rights down to a science. The pharmaceutical companies almost patented the human genone but were prevented by a few alert clinicists. Monsanto is busy trying to tie up our very grain foodstuff, our health is held ransom to the corporations. And some little sucks that hope they can emulate Bill Gates are peddling this game ? Sony, MCA, and the music conglomerates got their "copyrights" by stealing the songs from the musicians and composers for the most part. There's a long history of poor jazz and blues musicians behind all those songs. And even McCartney and Jagger will admit that they copied American blues musicians in what they did. These sterling words that the creator of some idea should benefit from his creation are simply bullshit to provide cover for the suits who do benefit. For the most part they paid a (barely) living wage to the artists who did actually do the creative part, whether songster, cartoonist, writer, or coder. Even Edison and his company ripped off Tesla. Damn, what has the impersonality of computers wrought ? A generation of egocentric, alienated, individualists with some sort of subjective morality ? It's OK to do a bad thing if it furthers my objectives ? A world I never made ! GNU forever ! Alt 2600 is looking good if I can just get by the spelling, the ingenuity, and "z" for "s". Get a new suit and eat more. You'll still die eventually. Lawrence Live life like you're never_gonna-die Love like you've never been hurt Dance and sing like no-one is watcing or listening And rejoice in our creation. lgwalker(a)mts.net bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com

23 years, 2 months

Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips

by mstein＠crestline.ca

----------------------Original Message------------------------ One question. Assuming the signal names are conventional, that's the same pinout as the '154 decoder. And yet my (ancient, hardbacked) TI TTL book says that while the 74154 is a logical replacement, it's not a direct replacement (this implies to me a different pinout). One of the pinouts I received had the A inputs in the oposite order (20 = A0 .. 23 = A3). Can somebody please check which is correct. -tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, you'll probably get another dozen replies from the other helpful folks here, but the pinouts and logic tables are identical and 23=a0, 20=a3. I thought the same when I looked at the 9311, that it sure looked like a 74154 which was used everywhere, and that there must be a pinout or big characteristic difference to make it worth FSC's while (since they also made the '154, and TI, NSC and Motorola, who also made the 9311). But the only difference I can see is that the max propagation delay is less on the 9311; maybe someone else will see something else. mike

23 years, 2 months

(no subject) Enough already

by loedman1＠juno.com

>A resounding FUCK YOU ya Texas hick. The message is decidedly ON-TOPIC as >it refers to my main point, which is that old software will remain >copyrighted for years to come, without any logic. >You need to keep deleting and moving on, as I'm sure many others have >done. Next time you have a problem then take it private and don't litter >the list with your drivel. >Or better yet, just filter my messages out, OK? >Ya dick. >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Might I suggest that you go and start your own list where you can belittle and insult your own members and leave the uninformed political statements and personal attacks off of this one. Rich Stephenson

23 years, 2 months

Core memory speeds

by bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca

Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, what was the access and cycle time of core memory before it vanished and just when did it do that? Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late 70's early 80's time frame here since this looks to be the transition stage from the the old to the new. Ben

23 years, 2 months

Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk)

by 3sdiarftt02＠sneakemail.com

Thanks for the help with the power supply for the Amstrad. I've picked up a nice unit that, while heavy, appears to be made for the computer it's so perfectly matched. Was that plug, that polarity, that voltage and that current a fairly common choice for a while? Anyway, I made a boot disk using Win98SE and the Amstrad really doesn't like it (can't blame it) -- crashes on boot. Can anyone supply an image of a boot disk known to work on the Amstrad? krishaven *aT* spamcop *dOt* net. TIA. BTW: It complains about setting the time and a dead battery before looking for a system disk. Does anyone know if its expecting me to buy 10 C cell batteries or if it's referring to an internal battery of some kind? Chris J. -------------------------------------- Protect yourself from spam, use http://sneakemail.com

23 years, 2 months

PDP-12 on eBay

by classiccmp＠vintage-computer.com

All I have to say is WOW! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 Note: I am not affiliated with this auction in any way and I'm precluded >from bidding because my wife would kill me. Erik

23 years, 2 months

Any Cromemco USERS?

by mhstein＠canada.com

Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does anyone at least have one in running condition? mike

23 years, 2 months

VMS command question and help, off-topic

by freddy＠kotelna.sk

Hello VMS folks, just a very simple question, what does a command like this do: BACKUP MULTIA_V72.BCK/SAVE DVA0:/IMAGE/VERIFY (it's alpha vms, so not sure whether floppy is named DVA0: on VAXen, too). I know basicaly what this does, my question is whether the .BCK file has some special format or whether UNIX command like this: $ cat MULTIA_V72.BCK > /dev/diskette0 or $ dd if=MULTIA_V72.BCK of=/dev/diskette0 is equivalent. If it's some special format, were it possible that you issue this command for me on some VMS and grab the diskette raw file and make it available for me? the image is available at http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck (1419264 bytes). Cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy(a)kotol.kotelna.sk'

23 years, 2 months

Need manuals for Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 ($$$)

by vcf＠siconic.com

----- Message Text ----- I have an outstanding bounty. I am seeking out manuals for the Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 computer imaging cameras circa late-80s/early-90s. If you have these manuals and want to earn a little extra cash, please contact me directly at <sellam(a)vintage.org>. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 2 months

Dear Santa, I would like a VAX....

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

I have several 3100's with diskette drive (both MFM and SCSI). --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Witchy [mailto:witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:52 PM > To: vance(a)neurotica.com > Cc: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vance(a)neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com] > > Sent: 20 January 2003 06:20 > > To: Witchy > > Cc: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > > I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an > > option for the > > > bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for > > 20-odd quid I > > > wouldn't complain :) > > > > That's not exactly right. I've seen everything between > TK50Z's and DLT > > TZ87's in MicroVAX III-series machines. > > Sorry, I meant 3100 series uVAXen :) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > >

23 years, 2 months

SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 19, 11:19, David Holland wrote: > Acutally, what I'd like to do is plug my 20$ Logitech Optical mouse (no > plate) into it, but somehow or another, I don't expect to see USB on a > Crimson anytime soon. You might be able to get a non-optical mouse from an Indigo or something of that vintage and change the plug, or make an adaptor. AFAIK, the Sun optical mice were made by Mouse Systems, and so were the older SGI mice. The 4DFAQ (aka "This Old SGI") has some instructions to convert a Sun mouse for an SGI. I'm not sure what effect the modification has; it could be baud rate. The Sun mice are 1200 baud, while SGI's were 4800 baud, and of course Sun use 0V/+5V while SGI used +/- 5V (roughly, it's more-or-less RS423 levels). There are also different protocols; SGIs use 5 bytes, and I think Mouse Systems standard mice used 3. Dunno about Suns. Another thing you might look out for is an older Sun non-optical mouse. I used to hate the optical ones (because of the limitations of the pad) and was delighted to find that Sun made an alternative, around the time of the early Ultras and later Sparcstations. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 2 months

Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor

by WiIdcats＠aol.com

did you ever sell this boat anchor? i have one i want to sell also. -Johnny

23 years, 2 months

Got the second batch of -11 equipment

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Unfortunately, the actual "machine" (the guy didnt know that the MINC-11 was a system as well) is just an 11/23 with some RL01s. Pictures: http://www.pdp11.org/minc/01-18-03/ I have no idea if the RL01 disk packs are any good, but I've got one DEC-labled RT-11 v4.0, and one hand-labeled RT-11 v4.0C "patched to level F". The top RL01 is missing the hinged cover. Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in Austin, Texas.. Not a bad haul for a total of $30, even if I do just keep the 11/23 and the MINC-11 and the racks. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net austin, texas

23 years, 2 months

VXT X terminal question [VR219 blues]

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

I wrote: > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem > to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX > model. Anyone have a clue? Hmm. OK... I used the monitor (VR320) that was connected to my VXT2000, and that seems to be a GPX tube. I dragged a (heavy !) VR219-D3 monitor out of storage, and connected that. No go, either, _and_ it wont sync either. Looks like that one is also GPX- its the old model, with the "sync rate" select switch at the rear. So, I'll have to find a VR219-DA or somesuch, first.. --fred

23 years, 2 months

"Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying

by cb＠mythtech.net

>It is commonly believed that the very first time that unauthorized copying >of software was called "PIRACY" was the open letter by Bill Gates. > >Does anybody have an earlier referrent? When was that letter? I remember using the term back when I traded software with friends on the Apple II. So probably early 80's. I'm not sure where I heard it first, but I suspect from one of the people I used to trade with (who probably got it from a BBS or elsewhere). I seem to even recall a duplication program that I used to use that was quite good at getting around copy protection, was called something like "The Pirates Friend". I'd have to go thru old software floppies to locate it and confirm the name, but I do think it used pirate in the name. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 2 months

Manuals becoming available via web (M4, Pick) and general pick info

by jwest＠imail.kwcorp.com

I had posted a while back about the manuals for M4 and Pick that I had just come across in the basement. Bruce Ray has agreed to scan them and make them available to people. Now that I'm packing them up to be sent to him, thought I'd post a more clear list as to what I have... M4 Data 1/2 tape drive diagnostics quick reference M4 Data 1/2 tape drive optional SCSI controller jumper/switch reference M4 Data 1/2 tape drive 9900 series field service manual Microdata Reality Assembly Language Reference Manual: This is the original definitive work, written by Dick and Chandru. Often called "The Rainbow Book" because of the color scheme on the front. A LOT of the nuances of the Pick Assembly environment were never really documented in later manuals from other vendors. Many of these nuances were absolutely essential to even write a simple program. The other vendors all stole the basic text of this book and reworked it. However, most of them left out many things that are critical, and most of those things ARE in this manual. I recall that most Pick Assembler programmers kept two books on their shelf. The assembly manual for whatever vendor they were using, AND this one. The progression of machines microdata put out was the Reality, Reality Royale, Sequel, Series 18, and Spirit (all that I recall). All of this hardware was of their own design (but I think they bought the M1600 cpu for reality from elsewhere). Ultimate Computer Systems Pick Assembler Manual: Ultimate was one of the few vendors who sold both firmware implementations and software implementations of Pick (referring to the translation between missionary and native instruction sets), so their assembler manual is quite interesting as it points out of lot of the differences between the two types of implementation. They called their pick operating system "Ultimate O/S". Their manual is probably the most complete for later implementations, because they still listed out process control block formats and such. The original rainbow book from micro data did this, but in later generations those formats changed very much - so this book's pcb format lists were about the only documentation of later generation (from other vendors too) internal structures. Ultimate released pick on "standard" hardware rather than building their own. I know I sold many systems based on PDP-11/03's, and Honeywell DPS-6's. I think I recall them releasing systems on Honeywell Bull too, a rebadged RS/6000 if memory serves. Oh yeah, and I remember doing the very first install of Ultimates version of Pick/370... Pick running on an IBM 4341, using two Series 1's as front end processors for terminal I/O... very cute system. It ran on top of VM, so you could literally have multiple Pick systems on the one machine. Ultimate Computer Systems Assembly Programming Notes: This is a 22 page handout... Ultimate gave it out as a "quick start" thing for pick programmers who were familiar with other vendors implementations but not ultimates. It also clarified a few things that weren't particularly clear in the original rainbow book. Alpha Microsystems Pick Open Architecture v1.3 Assembler Manual: Alpha Microsystems had a lot of different computer systems. I seem to recall they were more popular originally for an OS called AMOS, which was definitely not pick. I think they built their own computers originally, but I know most of the pick systems they came out with were 386/486 type machines, and they were not propietary, just off the shelf PC's. Well, except for the magical firmware board that kept you from running their pick version on just any old PC. They sold Pick R83, and Pick Open Architecture too. I can't recall what the big deal was about Open Architecture. I seem to recall it had something to do with being able to run in true protected mode with regards to the x86 chip. Their assembler manual, while being a bit skimpy, did happen to have a few nice tidbits of info in it that weren't obvious in other vendors manuals. That's the thing about Pick assembler - reading one manual you feel like something is left out, but by reading all the manuals available from all the different vendors, most of it came together. The rest was trial and error and digging through the OS source code (if you had it). General Automation 3.8 Assembly Changes: This is a set of notes, detailing for assembly programmers what they had to change in their software to make stuff written for prior than 3.8 release to run on 3.8 release. It has some particularly good info in it that is specific to GA implementations. General Automation 3.8 Assembler Manual: This is, somewhat unfortunately, a work in progress. Most of the Pick vendors/licensees restricted the use of the assembler to internal use only. There were two reasons for this - one, they considered even knowing the assembler a trade secret. Each vendor came out with their own modifications that they thought made their version of pick "better" than others, and they didn't want people knowing anything more than necessary about how they did it. The other reason was, the pick assembler was a totally unprotected programming environment. A small bug in your program would frequently destroy the entire system - it was a very "fragile" environment. Your code had to be very well behaved, and it had to follow strict guidelines for interfacing with other routines and the O/S itself. Of course, those guidelines weren't really documented anywhere at all, not even in the rainbow book. Nowhere did you generally find out that you couldn't use R12 when calling a particular system subroutine cause it used the contents as scratch, there was no memory or process protection, etc. This manual is somewhat odd in that GA finally "saw the light" that it was good to let 3rd party people enhance the OS with their own add-on software, for GA's own sake. So they took the Pick on the PC assembler manual and loaded it into a word processor and started to make all the changes necessary to make a new, fully documented assembler manual for GA's version of pick. This manual was printed in the middle of that effort. As a result, parts of it are very GA specific, but most of it is just a verbatim copy of the Pick on the PC manual (which I have somewhere, but haven't come across it yet). So, it's interesting as a "work in progress". GA's pick line was all software implementations, built around the MC68000. I remember models 1500, 2500, 3500, 5500, 7820, 8830, 2820, 3820, 1700, 1750. I'm sure I'm missing some. This was the vendor I had the most contact with, I still have a 1750 and a 2820 in my basement I need to get up and running. OMTI controller in them both :) I SEEM to recall a pertec to scsi interface in one, not sure. There is one manual I used to have but no longer do, so I'll throw up a hail-mary and see if anyone has it - I curse the day I lost it. It was the General Automation Firmware Executive manual, and documented the roms on the mainboard. It wasn't specific to pick, you could load programs in motorola S-record format from tape, etc. Any one have this perchance? Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]

23 years, 2 months

(no subject)

by vcf＠siconic.com

So the whores that are beholden to corporate interest...er, I mean the United States Congress has decided that copyrights in the US should be extended another 20 years beyond the limits they were set at, and those mental miscreants that put an ex-Coke junkie in the White House...er, I mean the US Supreme Court has upheld these extensions, saying it is Congress' duty to determine copyright lengths. So this means that, for instance, the software for Apple ][, Commodore 64, Atari 800, and TRS-80 (to name but a few platforms) will not be public domain until something like 2075, when computers as we know them today will not even exist. This makes so much sense that I just had an aneurysm. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 3 months

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test-drb