test-drb

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101090 discussions

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

>Isn't SunOS 4.1.4 rather insecure in this day and age? Not to mention >harder to obtain. I would be very careful before putting it on a publically-accessable network, but there's no indication that that will be happening here. A bit more difficult to come by- yes, but wasn't there a discussion here a bit ago about mating the computer with a representative operating system when possible to maintain the period unity?

19 years, 10 months

VAXen RULE! (WAS Microkernels)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Segin, now you're trolling. Do you suspect that we can't list the shortcomings of VAX just as easily as the shortcomings of x86? They pulled alot over from the PDP-11 that should have been reimplemented for a 32-bit arch... On the positive side, what is the most perfect computer architecture + implementation people have come across here? Tell us why, especially if it's something like PERQ or Acorn RISC/pc that is not common outside of a limited geographic area.

19 years, 10 months

IDE doesn't suck! (was: Macs and PCs vs workstations

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: IDE doesn't suck! (was: Macs and PCs vs workstations > From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com> > Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 10:56:09 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words: >>At 4:22 PM -0500 8/5/06, Scott Quinn wrote: >> >>>On the Macs: PIDE is horrible for doing more than one thing at once. Period. Sounds more like a driver problem as in only one task at a time. >> >>Nothing new there, is there any platform where it isn't? > >The IDE interface for my CoCo *Rocks!!!* > >=-= > >Well, you did ask... ;-) > >Laterz, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger > Generally speaking IDE was as good as the hardware hosting it. More often than not, better. At it's worst it was as good as WD1003 and a Fast MFM (quantum D540) Then again, early IDE was exactly that! Z80/10mhz, enhanced CPM(Zrdos) and IDE... Zoom zoom! Allison

19 years, 10 months

How CPU's work (was Re: Hi, I'm new...)

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Aug 7 2006, 15:14, Roy J. Tellason wrote: > Well, that one is a 10 MHz part while the 68000 I have is I think an 8 MHz > part, which is a bigger increase than that, but the clock driving the thing > would need to be changed too, and I don't think they have exactly the same > pinout, though it's been a really long time since I looked at that material. They do have the same pinout, and a 68010 is a drop-in replacement for a 68000. Except they stopped making it ages ago, and it's easier to get a 68000 than a 68010. The 68010 fixed the problem of not being able to recover from an interrupted instruction, handles double bus faults correctly, added a few vectors, made the exception vectors relocatable, and fixed the problem that getting back to supervisor mode >from user mode wasn't privileged in the original 68000 (which made a nonsense of any protection schemes). However, it has some other minor differences that mean it may not be 100% software compatible with a 68000, for example the revised exception stack frames. I'd have to dig out some very old course notes to tell you more. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

19 years, 10 months

How CPU's work (was Re: Hi, I'm new...)

by technobug＠comcast.net

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 22:41:36 -0400 and Sun, 06 Aug 2006 22:47:23 -0400, Ray Arachelian <ray at arachelian.com> wrote: > Absolutely. The 68000 is an amazing little chip when you compare > it to > the 6800 and 6502's that it evolved itself from. You can sort of > get a > feel from this from this journal: > > It's worth a read to get a feel of the excitement the 68K caused > back in > the day when it was introduced. Some of it is very funny, there's one > issue where the author compares an Intel FPU to the 68000 running > software floating point routines, and guess what, the 68000 > actually ran > FASTER! :-) > > The excitement was for a good part due to the excellent marketing on the part of Motorola. > Tony Duell wrote: >> That very much depends on the CPU. If the CPU is many chips (not a >> single >> package) with microcode in PROMs, there's nothing to stop you >> desoldering >> said PROMs and reading them out. I've done that, then written a >> disassembler for the microode instructions and worked out what was >> going on. >> > True, but you don't find CPU's made of discrete logic these days, > so it > makes it very difficult to get at the microcode. In the early '80s we started development of a process controller and evaluated the 68K as well as the National 32K processor which had been just released. The NS 32K processor was released with a FP unit which we required while Moto didn't get around to getting one to market for another year - the 68K on software just didn't hack it. We went with the NS 32K and were quite pleased with the beast. It was a true 32 bit processor witch came in three flavors: 8 bit, 16 bit, and 32 bit external busses - you could move the code from one to the other with almost no change. The instruction set was extremely orthogonal and close to those of the VAX sans the three operand instructions. The only flaw we noted was that the entire machine state was not saved on interrupt/trap which made a couple of features useless. The floating point processor was not a co-processor ala the 68K, but a external instruction execution module. When the FPU was attached, the FP instructions became active and you worked between internal register pairs. IIRC they also made communication processor that implemented part of the unimplemented instruction set. I played with my own external processor to implement macro instructions that were used to optimize execution time. When Apple was evaluating processors for the Mac, an internal source told me that NS marketing only made a half*** effort to sell the part. Unfortunately NS did their normal thing when it came to processors and shot themselves in the foot (see PACE - both Studebaker and NS screwed those up) by trying to keep it all to themselves. Consequently, there was little third party support for the chip. I believe it to be a better implementation than the 68K. CRC

19 years, 10 months

Tape Drive & Tape Archival questions...

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

>I'm afriad that you don't understand the issues. To produce an accurate >archive of a tape, one must preserve things such as block sizes, labels, >and filemarks. There are packages to do this, but tar isn't one of them. >While tapes are a one-dimensional medium, there's more variation in >physical structure than encountered on the typical disk. > >Cheers, >Chuck I'm going to be horrably pragmatic here and assert that, while it is nice to have a image of the tape (using either dd or Tapeutils: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/tapeutils), it is more important to have the software on the tape in a useable backup. With the Sun tapes, that means that you can mostly do tar (with the exclusion of the sandalone copy, munix, and miniroot which would need to be dd'd off) and it is better than having the tapes sit around in the garage and fall apart. Tar/cpio created tapes are nice in that the dd'd files can be read with tar -f (or cpio), making them useable as-is. inst-format tapes and wbak/rbak tapes don't have this luxury, so I like to do the extraction to files and "rebinding" into a tardist or disk-file wbak archive so they can be used even if you don't have a tape drive. IOW, both have their uses, but it is infinitely better to have one than to have none.

19 years, 10 months

Tape Drive & Tape Archival questions...

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

19 years, 10 months

Advanced Micro Computers (was How CPU's work (was Re: Hi, I'm new...))

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Anyone remember AMC? A coop venture of AMD and Siemens (and maybe another firm) to push the Z8000 with development tools? I still have a binder full of documentation for their assembler. -- Yup. Have a fair amt of material on bitsavers from Philip Freidin from them, along with some software. Friends back home developed a HVAC control system using the AMC tools, and when I moved to the Bay Area, I met one of the last people who was working on software at AMC.

19 years, 10 months

Truth (was: Hi, I'm new...

by technobug＠comcast.net

On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 16:17:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: > I'm trying to figure out how to make pneumatic (NOT hydraulic) gates. > Once I can build a half adder and full adder with compressed smoke > (no mirrors), THEN I'll be ready to start really learning how > digital electronics works. > All you want to know: <http://www.engnetbase.com/ejournals/books/ book_summary/toc.asp?id=501>. Let us know how it works out :=)) CRC

19 years, 10 months

Century drive manual, and TVI 925 terminal (separate notes)

by jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu

I have a couple of bits that may be of interest for someone. I have a manual for a Century 8" disk drive, removable that I will be putting in the scan pile. If anyone needs it sooner than later, reply, and I'll get it scanned somehow. I had the drive and may have some of the media around in my piles as well. This is a 2075 or 2120 drive Unfortunately I only have the user manual, but it has quite a bit more info than junky manuals do today, if someone needs the info. There was an SMD adapter, which I believe we had with our units. Also a TVI 925 w/o keyboard on epay, claims it lights up. 5233869793

19 years, 10 months

Evan's current wishlist

by evan＠snarc.net

If anybody happens to have the following for sale, then please contact me off-list. - Grundy Newbrain (model AD or M) - Teleram T-3000 - Sord IS-11 Consultant - Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40 Thanks, - Evan

19 years, 10 months

OT: Fluidic computer

by cclist＠sydex.com

Here's the web page of a guy who's built himself a 4-bit water adder: http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~paulo/courses/howmake/mlfabfinalproject.htm

19 years, 10 months

vintage HP-87 system with additional equipment

by vp＠drexel.edu

david page <daspage at yahoo.com> wrote: > [...]is there a website to find out possible market value and maybe > a buyer? This is what I had acquired: > > Hewlett Packard- HP-87 > [... series 80 stuff ...] I'd say eBay is your best bet. Search for completed auctions which will give you the closing prices. You have to decide whether you want sell the whole thing as one item or separately. The all-in-one will likely fetch less than the items sold separately, but you will save a lot of time (setting up the auctions, dealing with buyers, packaging the stuff, etc.) , plus you will not have any leftover stuff. For more info on the HP-87 and other HP Series 80 computers check: www.series80.org Series 80 manuals, programs, HOWTOs etc. www.hpmuseum.net Australian HP Computer Museum www.hpmuseum.org Museum of HP calculators **vp

19 years, 10 months

Tape Drive & Tape Archival questions...

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

(1) the tape drive: I fixed my IRIS drive by cleaning off the goo and sliding on a section of some sort of (probably very nice & expensive) tubing I got at Boeing Surplus. Not quite vinyl (matte finish and slightly bluish, more flexable then vinyl), but similar. Get a set of calipers in there and get the O.D. and I.D. needed and let me know. I still have many yards of the stuff. (2) Sun tapes are in TAR format, excepting the first couple, Let me grab my "System Administrator's Guide to Sun Workstations". O.K.- for SunOS 4.0 on QIC: tape: file: name: format: 1 0 boot image 1 1 XDRTOC TOC 1 2 copy image 1 3 mini-root image 1 4 munix image 1 5 munixfs image the rest are TARs, except tape1, file 15 (copyright) and tape2, 0 (boot) 2,1 (XDRTOC) and 2,12 (copyright) Have the whole list if anyone needs it, don't want to choke up cctalk, though I archive twice: once as "dd" files, once as "extracted" files. On TAR tapes, the dd files double as the extracted files, so there is no issue (same with CPIO). Things like IRIS-4D disttapes (distcp) and Apollo Domain tapes (rbak) need to be extracted in order to be readable without rewriting a tape, though. Pay attention when copying older tapes. Sometimes the belt slips and you get some slack that starts to make a snapping or popping noise as it gets pulled taut and goes loose. If you don't catch this, you can tie your tape in knots. A script I use to automate the dd copy follows #! /bin/sh filenum=1 #where the numbers in the filenames start bs=1024 #block size, bigger = faster, smaller=better error handling while [1] do dd if=/dev/nrst0 of=file${filenum} bs=${bs} if [$? != 0] then break fi filenum='expr $filenum + 1' done --------- slightly crude, but works. Replace the /dev/nrst0 with your tape no-rewind device (this is set up for SunOS4 as it stands). Make a directory with the name of the tape, cd to it, run the script, and the tapefiles will be extracted in file1, file2 ... files.

19 years, 10 months

Radio Electronics Issues looking for a good home

by brain＠jbrain.com

Pretty much 1985 to when they quit (2000) There are some interesting computer and computer-related projects in them. Either way, they're free for shipping to whomever wants. If no one bites, they are hitting the recyling bin. Jim

19 years, 10 months

Update on Classic Computer Rescue

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Awhile back I asked for help rescuing two large collections of classic computers and other related items and to date we are just $1400 dollars from meeting our goal. The cost of the two trips, one to Nebraska (was KS but items moved for storage) and the other to Georgia is estimated at $3200 total for truck rentals and fuel. I will be paying for my own meals and those that help in each State. I have volunteers in each area that have offered to help load the trucks. So, if I can get just 140 more people to donate $10 then both trips can be made. A partial list of the items can be found at www.houstoncomputermuseum.org and your donation large or small is tax deductible (we are a 501(c)(3) nonprofit). Thanks to all that sent funds in the last few weeks. Thanks for looking.

19 years, 10 months

x86es

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I recently found a set of Win95 floppies. Yeehaw what fun! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 10 months

OpenVMS

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

"OpenVMS VAX" - pure bloat. 4 extra keystrokes, 4 extra bytes (unless you have a 7-bit impl, in which case it's one nybble less) and the LMF still calls it VAX-VMS. And my "no more grumping" resolution's already out the window. Faugh.

19 years, 10 months

Macs and PCs vs workstations

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 8/6/06, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > At 4:22 PM -0500 8/5/06, Scott Quinn wrote: > >I'll give you Suns, I wasn't thinking clearly. They started going > >downhill about 1998. Hmm... so you put the split at about the A3000/A5000 timeframe? (I was buying $$$$ in Sun equipment for Lucent in 1997 and 1998). > Was it that far back :^( Sadly most of the Suns I have experience > with are U60 vintage or older. At the same time I'd be inclined to > blame the U5 and U10 for when they started going downhill. I'd agree that U5s and U10s are built for the lowest cost possible. I used to use a U5 in 1999 - it did make a nice X-Terminal. Glad I didn't have to compile apps or do real work on it. > Last version of OpenVMS for the VAX is 7.3, 7.3-1 is Alpha only. I > believe the last version of VAX/VMS was 5.5-2H4. Yeah, I'm picking a > couple nits here :^) I've run 6.0 on a uVAX-II with an RD54... it was a *really* tight squeeze, but it did (barely) fit. I thought that VAX/VMS went up through 6.x and stopped at 7.0, or was it 7.1? Can't say for sure without looking it up - since 7.0, I've been running VMS on Alpha hardware. -ethan

19 years, 10 months

x86es

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> When will the flamewar ever end? Is x86 the magical trolling word around >here? I'm real sorry, I never knew that mentioning x86 systems here >would cause such a dicussion. Really, x86 isn't that bad when you consider that all of its failings are the reason for its triumph: you can get a working computer that does everything that a single-user needs for $600, and it will have decent reliability and capabilities. The disappointment comes in playing mind games to the effect of "well, think what we could have if they just spent a bit more..." That and a disappointment that many "Computer Science/IT" people think that Windows is so great that they won't bother to consider or even learn anything else. I'll try to moderate myself. I don't want to be a grumpy old fart at 28, and it does increase list civility.

19 years, 10 months

HP3000/922 attemts at booting...a little farther now

by steerex＠mindspring.com

DOH... My bad... I thought it was a hpux system :-( ---------- From: Scott Quinn Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:36 AM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: RE: HP3000/922 attemts at booting...a little farther now >At the "ISL>" prompt, enter "hpux -is". This will boot the system into single user mode and automatically log you in as "root". > >------- > >When your in the system, you can change the root password: > >"passwd root" > >Just reboot he system "shutdown -r now" and let it follow the normal boot process. So is MPE that similar to HP-UX? I thought it would be something semi-bizarre so I didn't pursue it at all (also the difficulty of finding a 3k and MPE media). Had it slotted in with OS/400 in the "things that will be a huge headache and very expensive, so don't bother" class...

19 years, 10 months

rescue?: Toshiba Satellite T2135CS in Atlanta

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Not the oldest, but free and intact, apparently. - John >At 10:45 AM 8/5/2006, you wrote: > >>Hey John, >>I'm sure what I have is not quite the vintage you're looking for but I would hate to have it wind up in a landfill. I was cleaning out my basement and found my first laptop - a Toshiba Satellite T2135CS. I have all the manuals and a full 40 disc set of back-up discs. Do you know anyone who might be interested? >>Steve

19 years, 10 months

CDs: The Rainbow Books

by jbglaw＠lug-owl.de

Hi! We're all using CDs of different kind (CDs containing data, audio CDs, maybe even some with more interesting formats like those for some old arcade games using the 30 MB of R..W subchannel information, ...) I'm currently trying to gather as much information about the low-level format of CDs as possible. While there's a lot at a first glance, it's all mostly unuseable. Eg. the SCSI MMC-3 draft tells you how to get some of the "interesting" data, but there's of course no reference how to decode the data. I've been looking for the "Rainbow Books" (Red Book describing Audio CDs, ...), but those are quite expensive. Partial information is available through standards of other kind (eg. most of the Red Book became an IEC standard, too), but those are a bit expensive, too. Did you ever come along detailed technical documentation about these little silver beasts that'd allow to hack some nice extraction and refactoring tools? Or do you happen to own one of the books and are willing to hand it over to me for a week? MfG, JBG -- Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw at lug-owl.de +49-172-7608481 Signature of: Friends are relatives you make for yourself. the second :

19 years, 10 months

Microkernels (WAS Re: New to the list)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

The reason I brought up System 10 is that it is the "best" microkernel implementation I have at this point (the other one is a OPENSTEP box, substatntially older). Current Macs share much more with PeeCees than SGI IRISes and Sun SPARCs, so there is most likely a non-insignificant amount of suboptimal hardware that eats processor cycles like a cow eats grass to do things that a better arch. hands off and is done with. I was hoping a OSF/1-DUNIX-Tru64 user would pop in a bit more about that platform (hoping to pick up most of a AS4100 to try it out on soon). It uses the OSF/1 Mach-based system but on well-designed few-compromises hardware.

19 years, 10 months

HP3000/922 attemts at booting...a little farther now

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

>At the "ISL>" prompt, enter "hpux -is". This will boot the system into single user mode and automatically log you in as "root". > >------- > >When your in the system, you can change the root password: > >"passwd root" > >Just reboot he system "shutdown -r now" and let it follow the normal boot process. So is MPE that similar to HP-UX? I thought it would be something semi-bizarre so I didn't pursue it at all (also the difficulty of finding a 3k and MPE media). Had it slotted in with OS/400 in the "things that will be a huge headache and very expensive, so don't bother" class...

19 years, 10 months

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