test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by jbmcb1＠gmail.com

So I went back to the University of Michigan property disposition after a two year hiatus, and they actually have a few interesting things... A BIG SGI IRIS, I think it was a 3000, but it looked even larger than pictures I've seen of those. A giant Compaq ProLiant, I'd say P3 vintage, with a dozen PCI slots, sitting on top of a huge disk array. The whole thing was about five feet tall. A bunch of Dell and Compaq disk arrays, housing mostly Seagate U160 drives, so maybe 18GB X 8? A Digital StorageWorks tape backup autoloader cabinet. A bunch of IBM tape and CD-ROM drives, of RISCSystem/6000 vintage. A few Sun Ultra 1's and Ultra 60's. A lonely and beaten-up IBM 3151 terminal, probably from a library. The prices were somewhat reasonable for most of this stuff, which was surprising given their method of checking eBay for appropriate pricing. Boxes of early PCI cards, including some nice Yamaha and Ensoniq audio cards, and various off-brand SCSI cards. They had a big shipment of interesting Pro A/V equipment, I picked up a Panasonic world-standard VCR (PAL/Secam/etc...) and a nice Tascam tape deck. They had some Sony Umatic tape stuff as well. Someone was walking out with a pallet of cool stuff, I recognized a few Rane parametric EQ's and a Tascam pro DAT deck. Very tempting were two big, lab-grade ionizing lasers, complete with power supplies/cooling units. Always wanted one of those... Good hunting!

19 years, 10 months

Gooey tape rollers - how widespread is this problem ?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> How widespread is this problem ? > How old do the tape drives have to be before this problem appears ? The drive rollers on QIC drives are the most troublesome. Most of the DC300 drives I have are bad. All of the Apple Tape Backup 40's I've ever run into are bad. Most HP DC100 drives are bad. Same for all of the pre-QIC DC300 drives used in Tektronix 405x's, DEI drives in Onyx systems, TI drives, etc. etc. Pretty much all of the drives from before 1985 are bad. No one was thinking about trying to use these things 20+ years after they were shipped. 1/4" cartridge drives are common enough that there are still maybe one in ten that have good rollers. Wangtek is more difficult to repair than Archive, since Archive kept the same roller design for 10+ years, so you can still find later drives that can be cannibalized to fix old ones. It should be possible to use rubber tubing of the right diameter and gasket cement to fix the HP drives. Brad Parker gave me a 1 foot piece of rubber tubing that is the right diameter for TU58 rollers. TK50s have problems with the tapes going sticky. Because of the way the carts are built, I've not found a way to safely dehydrate the tape binder. I have hundreds of DC300 carts that I'm trying to go through that all exhibit some degree of stickiness. Because of how thin this tape is, I'm a bit nervous to use the same dehydration oven I've built for processing 1/2" tape http://www.bitsavers.org/tools/oven

19 years, 10 months

VAXen RULE! (WAS Microkernels)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: VAXen RULE! (WAS Microkernels) > From: Kevin Handy <kth at srv.net> > Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:21:31 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >>>Subject: Re: VAXen RULE! (WAS Microkernels) >>> From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> >>> Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:40:34 -0400 >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >>> >>>Scott Quinn wrote: >>> >>> >>>>On the positive side, what is the most perfect computer architecture + implementation people have come across here? >>>>Tell us why, especially if it's something like PERQ or Acorn RISC/pc that is not common outside of a limited geographic area. >>>> >>>> >>>I really dig z/Arch. Extreme CISCy goodness. MMMmmmMMMmmmMMM. >>> >>>Extreme pleasure in writing assembler. >>> >>>Peace... Sridhar >>> >>> >> >>Vax is good but PDP-11 is it's foundation and of the 16bitters it's a very >>nice cpu. >> >>Allison >> >> >The best processor is going to be different based on the person >you are talking to. Everyone has their own idea as to what >features are important, and fond old memories of working on >an ancient (wasn't then) OS tend to sway their decision. If you >go back to one of those old systems, you often think to yourself >"did I really put up with all this crap?" Yes! Often looking back it was the tools rather than the CPU that were "crap". >If you just want to play around with a lot of different CPU >architectures to see what they were like, the 'simh' series of >emulators might be a place to start. Most of them are sturdy >enough to run a real OS, and they have the ability to work >at the instruction level. Includes a simple assembler/ >disassembler for each CPU. > >Lets you play with a lot of hardware before deciding you want >to spend actual money on them. Having the opportunity to play with everything DEC from PDP-8 through Alpha and having working PDP-8F, PDP11 (11/03, 11/23, 1173) and MicroVAXen of all sorts a sim is unsatisfying. Going from PDP-8 and PDP-10 to the 8008 was real culture shock (what instruction set?). Having done the whole 8080, 8085, z80, 808x thing makes me appreciate the word orthogonal. The comprehensive list of micros worked with even includes those never discussed here (those nasty little 4bitters). and yes I do like the VAX. From the CISIC view I really like the PDP-11 as it's simple but all there. From a minimalist view the PDP-8 is about as reduced as one can get though the 1802 is pretty inspired in that area.. I still smile when someone says My cpu is better than yours. After all it just might be for something. ;) Allison

19 years, 10 months

How CPU's work (was Re: Hi, I'm new...)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: How CPU's work (was Re: Hi, I'm new...) > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:25:19 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 8/8/2006 at 11:11 AM Dave McGuire wrote: > >> I like the index registers; I use them with some frequency. The >>alternate register set, though...ugh. It'd be much more useful if the >>designers had provided a way to determine which set is currently in use! Index regs are nice, alternate registers...more pain than gain. > >I've wondered about something for years, however. Did anyone ever make use >of the fact that an INI or OTI instruction placed the contents of both the >B and C registers on the Z80 address bus? It would seem to be a simple way >of expanding the I/O space to 64K ports. Yes, but why I'll never know. Even that case they actually never used more 100 or so port addresses. I did use it myself to put z80 on XT ISA (no 8088 at all) but that was to fool the 10bit device IO addresses. It was for hardware savings rather than more addresses. Generally the problem is to write a zero to every possible port of a z80 (outir) will take over .3sec at 4mhz. Every time I hear "I want to have all 64k ports" I ask what in the world requires 512kbits of slow IO! Allison

19 years, 10 months

Cleaning microfiche?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> The History Resource Center has a stack of fiche with oil all over it Be EXTREMELY careful when cleaning them. Oil will soften the emulsion, and fiche are VERY easily scratched.

19 years, 10 months

SPARCstation LX troubleshooting

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> I have 2 that I picked up the other day. They "appear" to power up (e.g. >lights, drive seeking, etc). I tried 2 different monitors, but I don't get >any video. I believe that Suns can be set to ignore the graphics console and immediately go to TTY. Definitely plug in a term and see what happens. There are PROM commands to change back to graphics. >I'd recommend looking into running either OpenBSD or maybe NetBSD on them. >I know OpenBSD has a small enough memory footprint to fit on one nicely >(won't guarentee it's supported hardware though as I don't have any LX's). >Even Solaris 2.6 will be painful on one. Be Classic- SunOS 4.1.4! NetBSD is a second-place contender, but good if you need all the new stuff, it doesn't have all the Sunny goodness, though.

19 years, 10 months

for trade: IBM 5028 Teletype

by hardware＠ees1s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu

For trade: IBM 5028 Operator Station from System/7 http://ees2cy.engr.ccny.cuny.edu/wwwa/web/hardware/ibm5028a.jpg http://ees2cy.engr.ccny.cuny.edu/wwwa/web/hardware/ibm5028b.jpg As you can see the machine is not pretty. Fortunately the cracked part of the case is not lost. (It fell in.) I bought a ribbon, powered it up and typed on it a little bit and at least that part of it works. I would like to trade this for something pre-1980 made by Tektronix. -kurt

19 years, 10 months

Not classic, but free: HP-UX (and the B2000)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> Is that a new feature? Do you get the Customer ID and Licence Code for >free now? (These are necessary to unlock e.g. the compilers on the >Applications CD) As I said in the first post, I am unsure as to the legality. There does not seem to be any license manager style enforcement in place. I was able to install compilers and SoftBench from the "HP-UX 11i Version 1 Application Software for HP Visualize workstations and HP 9000 Enterprise Servers June 2006 - Software on this disk is unsecured" disk and run SoftBench and a lazy poke at aCC to see if it griped. It didn't. Take that for what it's worth. The CD's were free, after all, and you can always use GCC. At this point, I'm busy wth school and building S/W on my SGIs, so I'm not going to mess with it any more just now.

19 years, 10 months

Mac keyboards

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:30:08 -0700 >From: Don <THX1138 at dakotacom.net> >I have an "Apple Adjustable Keyboard" -- a wacky keyboard >that splits in the center ("ergonomic"?) and has an >auxillary "function/numeric" keyboard that sits alongside >it (sheesh! What a wacky arrangement -- how to use up the >most desktop space with the least added functionality! :< ) > >Needless to say, I am not happy with it. What should I >be looking for as an alternative? If you're using it with your Q840AV, then you need an ADB keyboard. Many folks believe that the best were the Apple Extended Keyboard II. These are generally easy to find at thrift shops/Goodwill and such for $10 - $15. They originally retailed for well over $100. I imagine that there are (or were) thousands or tens of thousands of them sitting at recyclers waiting to be crushed--and they're just full of keyswitches. If you're really lucky, you might find a NeXT Model N8001 keyboard. Some NeXT machines used an ADB keyboard. The N8001 has a compact size (no F keys) and the Command key is a long bar below the spacebar, which I find very convenient--though it sort of ruins me for other keyboards. And a completely superficial feature that pleases me disproportionately, it's a nice pure black, except for the green 'Power' button. Unfortunately, it's a membrane keyboard, so you may not like the feel. For a nice clackety clack feel, stick with the Extended Keyboard II. BTW, if you need a bunch of Mac specific help you may wish to check out the Vintage Macs email group sponsored by Lowendmac.com. I'd point you at the comp.sys.mac.* hierarchy, but the newsgroups just aren't what they used to be, sigh. I really like newsreader clients *a lot* better than email clients or web based fora. Sigh again. Trolls recently drove the signal portion of the S/N ratio off of the rec.aquaria hierarchy and onto Google groups and reading fora on a web browser is painful. It only shows me 30 thread titles at a time. I have to load a new page rather than simply scrolling to see the rest of the thread titles. Everything opens in the same window, instead of a separate window for each message that I open. Newswatcher (or maybe TIN) was the peak of forum/newsgroup browsing ease. Jeff Walther

19 years, 10 months

Mac 840AV networking

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 22:41:04 -0400 >From: "Jason McBrien" <jbmcb1 at gmail.com> >On 8/7/06, Don <THX1138 at dakotacom.net> wrote: >> >> OK, the 840AV has one of those mini-centronics-style >> connectors on the rear for the network transceiver. >> >> I have some "Asante FriendlyNet Thin Adapter"s that will >> mate with this and work -- for a 10Base2 network! >> >> The Asante box has an RJ45 on the rear. The cable that >> mates to the network connector on the 840AV has that >> funky mini-centronics on one end and an RJ45 *plug* >> on the other. >> >> This choice of connectors -- and the "Thin Adapter" >> moniker -- suggests that I could plug the RJ45 *plug* >> end of this cable into a hub directly? >> >> Is this true? Or, just wishful thinking (and an unfortunate >> choice in connectors on Asantes part)? >Nope, I'm 99% sure the RJ45 cable is not a regular CAT4/CAT5 style ethernet >connector, since I have some of the same Asante adapter dongles with RJ45 >jacks on the end of them (IE the AUI->RJ45 connector fits into a box, that >has another RJ45 jack on it that's the ethernet interface.) You must have an older Asante transceiver. The more recent ones have the cable integrated into the transceiver box, so that there is no seperate dongle. For those having trouble following, Apple used an odd connector (the mini-centronics referred to above) for their AUI port and called it an AAUI port. It makes a certain amount of sense as the AAUI is a more compact connector which works nicely for laptops and saves space on the computer backplane. Also, Apple is (was) already using DB15 for their video port. Various companies made transceivers for the AAUI port, including Asante. Asante's older transceivers have an AAUI to RJ45 plug dongle. The RJ45 end of the dongle plugs into the transceiver box which may be for thicknet, thinnet or UTP (they also made some combo boxes with UTP and thinnet in the same box). Anyway, you'll (Don will) want to find an actual UTP transceiver. They're cheap, but not as thick on the ground as they once were. Apple gave up on the AAUI with the first PCI Macs (well, they started including UTP built-in next to the AAUI, but who used the AAUI after that?) so the only folks still using the AAUI transceivers are running NuBus machines, and there aren't that many of us left. If you have a local Goodwill Computer Works store, you may find an assortment of AAUI transceivers in a bin for $3 - $5 unless they've lost their minds for Ebay pricing. <digression> I saw several HP 600N ethernet cards (successor to the MIO cards for LaserJet printers) at the San Antonio Computer Works store priced over $50. They say they're pricing them using Ebay pricing. However, when I bought one on Ebay, I found that they generally ended for about $20 (which was still more than I was willing to pay). There were some sellers using fixed price sales at ~$50, but there's no saying anyone ever bought from them. For some of their pricing, Goodwill has recently lost their institutional mind. </digression> Jeff Walther

19 years, 10 months

VAXen RULE! (WAS Microkernels)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: VAXen RULE! (WAS Microkernels) > From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:40:34 -0400 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Scott Quinn wrote: >> On the positive side, what is the most perfect computer architecture + implementation people have come across here? >> Tell us why, especially if it's something like PERQ or Acorn RISC/pc that is not common outside of a limited geographic area. > >I really dig z/Arch. Extreme CISCy goodness. MMMmmmMMMmmmMMM. > >Extreme pleasure in writing assembler. > >Peace... Sridhar Vax is good but PDP-11 is it's foundation and of the 16bitters it's a very nice cpu. Allison

19 years, 10 months

Scouting Mission

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> A BIG SGI IRIS, I think it was a 3000, but it looked even larger than >pictures I've seen of those. Quick check on those: was it beige? The IRIS x000 series were the only beige computers SGI produced. If it was brown it's a 4D. They made them in 3 sizes, I've seen 2 (terminal and deskside) The terminal could sit on your desk. 9 Multibus slots, no disks The deskside is the most common- 20 Multibus slots, 2 5.25" FH HDD positions and 1 5.25" FH removable-media position, along with much dead space. Stands about 3' high. There are rumors of a rackmount designed to use SMD drives, for those who needed big, fast storage. There are a number of people on the list with these, if you're interested grab it.

19 years, 10 months

Mac keyboards

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 8/8/2006 12:30:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, THX1138 at dakotacom.net writes: I have an "Apple Adjustable Keyboard" -- a wacky keyboard that splits in the center ("ergonomic"?) and has an auxillary "function/numeric" keyboard that sits alongside it (sheesh! What a wacky arrangement -- how to use up the most desktop space with the least added functionality! :< ) Needless to say, I am not happy with it. What should I be looking for as an alternative? --------- Some people actually like that keyboard. I have one myself with the keypad I got for free. There's a bunch of different types of keyboards you can use. I prefer the mac keyboards with the ADP ports on the side of the keyboard. I have some that you can plug the mouse in from underneath the keyboard, but the connection seems to work loose eventually.

19 years, 10 months

tricep? what's tricep?

by robert.stek＠gmail.com

IIRC, Morrow Designs biggest, baddest S-100 machine (used a switching PS!) could run CP/M but with a special boot ROM (on the backplane with serial I/O I believe) also ran UNIX System V substituting a 68000 CPU board for the usual Z80. That was the Tricep I believe, which came out around 1984. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols

19 years, 10 months

How CPU's work (was Re: Hi, I'm new...)

by technobug＠comcast.net

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 09:16:34 -0700, "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: > > I used to have a CPU S100 board that I built for the National > PACE. That > CPU was a catastrophe. So slow and with very little NS support. > Given > its very early introduction, it could have been a comer had NS > taken any > interest in it. But at the time, NS was pushing the SC/MP and > signing > second-sourcing deals. > IIRC what made the NS PACE such a screaming shame was that it was a clone of the Data General Nova 1200. The thought of being able to gen up code on my lab system and stuff it into this little chip just made me drool up until I discovered that, fearing the wrath of DG, they split the program counter. That made it a 256 word paged machine rendering all the code generation facilities useless. It was a while before DG came out with a chip set that was priced out of sight (another company which wouldn't share...). CRC

19 years, 10 months

Maybe OT? SFTP Backup software

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Perhaps a little off-topic, but... I need to locate a (hopefully inexpensive) backup software package, for use on Windows 2000, that will allow me to back up files over SFTP (FTP over secure shell) to a remote server. Said package needs to do so completely without user intervention (in other words, I don't want to make things any more complicated for my dad's system than I have to). I've found a few, but they all seem to bear at least a three-digit price tag. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"

19 years, 10 months

Microkernels (WAS Re: New to the list)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Current Macs share much more with PeeCees > than SGI IRISes and Sun SPARCs, so there is most likely a non-insignificant amount of suboptimal hardware that eats processor cycles Please give concrete examples of this "suboptimal hardware" you speculate about, and give examples of how this is done better on SGI or Sun DESKTOP CLASS Hardware.

19 years, 10 months

My Newest (oldest) Data General Computer

by rborsuk＠colourfull.com

Hi, Just added a new (old) Data General Computer to my collection. Thought I would share it with those who are interested. http://homepage.mac.com/irisworld/PhotoAlbum4.html Yep, a Nova 2. I acquired this computer with 2 diablo drives, power / controller unit, and cables. Rob ps. Even received 2 cartridges for the drives.

19 years, 10 months

Need help with LAT > SSH tunnel

by fireflyst＠earthlink.net

Does anyone know if there is an easy way to forward a LAT connection to either SSH or Telnet on a VMS 8.2 machine? I have a PDP-11 running RSTS/E that has no form of TCP/IP available, only LAT and DECnet, and I want to make it available via SSH connection through the VMS system. Any help would be appreciated. Julian

19 years, 10 months

"misload" error on JB

by THX1138＠dakotacom.net

When trying to eject a cartridge from one of my JB's, I get a "MISLOAD" error reported on the front panel. Media is accessible, otherwise, just won't eject. I've never seen this before. And the choice of message seems misleading (I could understand a "misload" on a *load* but not an "eject"!) I've just started to take the skin off the JB so I can get access to the drive. Is this just a nuisance error (perhaps caused by manhandling the JB while media was loaded) or a harbinger of Bad Things to come? :<

19 years, 10 months

COM90C65?

by rtellason＠verizon.net

I've acquired a couple of tubes of these chips, NOS as far as I know, and can't seem to find any data on them at any of the usual places, though the COM90C66 datasheet mentions it briefly. I did find one email where a guy was looking for some but the post was several years old and the email address didn't work any more. Anybody have a datasheet for these? Know what they're good for? Need some? -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

19 years, 10 months

tricep? what's tricep?

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I found some 5.25" floppies labeled "TRICEP UTILITIES" and "tricep standalone with UNIX". Anyone know what that might have been? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

19 years, 10 months

Sparcstation LX troubleshooting

by kelly＠catcorner.org

I have 2 that I picked up the other day. They "appear" to power up (e.g. lights, drive seeking, etc). I tried 2 different monitors, but I don't get any video. Any troublshooting tips, or should I connect to the serial A port and see if there is any outut there? Any other things that could cause no apparent video on these units? thanks, Kelly

19 years, 10 months

RA81 boards available

by pdp11owner＠gmail.com

Hi, I am cleaning out some items from my 'treasures' (as my wife calls them!). I have 3 boards available, without cables, which were originally from an RA81 circa 1987. I have no way of testing them and I am offering them as-is where-is, etc. I want the boards to go to someone who needs the boards to get an RA81 back to a running state, or, to an established member of the list who can be entrusted with the boards for restoring an RA81 (Sellem?) The boards are located in a little town very near Calgary Alberta Canada. I can arrange for shipping if required. Shipping costs will be required in advance. Board 1: HDA PCB4 5015287B 5415288 Board 2: 5015246-00-C1-P2 5415247 Board 3: 5415251 5015250-00-C1-P2 RA81 SERVO CONTROL KA865446004 1/0 A 24MAR87 70-19045-01 8654460004 Board 2 has all socketed chips removed. Boards 1 & 3 look to be complete. If someone has a copy of OpenVMS for an Alpha 300XL, I would be interested. I am in the process of applying for a DECUS membership and then a license PAK. I do not have any media. :-( --barry

19 years, 10 months

Macs and PCs vs workstations

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 8/7/06, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > My point was that VAX/VMS became OpenVMS which runs on both VAX and > Alpha with v6.0, IIRC. The newest version to run on the VAX is 7.3. > I've no idea if they're ever going to do one of the 8.x versions for > the VAX. The roadmap on the HP website might give a clue. Ah... I missed the semantic distinction. I'm with you now. -ethan

19 years, 10 months

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test-drb