test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

SMT techniques (was Re: group buy for homebrew CPUs?)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 8/12/06, woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote: > Still I would like to see in surface mount --- > tiny Flip/Clips and see how small you can build > a PDP-{Favorate number}. I _have_ thought about that for replacement -8/L and -8/i boards - design a simple board with, say, 4 to 6 16-pin SO pads and decoupling caps and a dual row of jumper pads to cross-connect the edge fingers to the various chip pads to be able to replicate, say, an M111 vs an M117. The "problem" is that I doubt you could get real TTL (not LS-TTL) parts in SO. I haven't experimented with replacing TTL with LS parts in any of my -8s, so I don't know if there would be any issues or not. So far, I've always had enough of the right things on hand when I go to replace a chip on an M-series module. I would think that the dimensions could be on the order of 2 x the size of just the area of the fingers. The advantage, of course, is that it would be easy to make a large number of these on one PCB panel, reducing per-unit costs. Using one (or maybe two at most) base designs would also help quantity issues. You could sit down one day and make a stack of a dozen M111s, then make two dozen M113s the next day with the same PCB; just add the right SO-parts and configure the jumpers in the right order, and there you are. -ethan

19 years, 10 months

Asynch designs (OT)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> Yeah, they've been around for years. It's illegal to have anything capable of >receiving TV broadcasts in the UK without having a licence (about 160GBP/year, >approx $140US). Doesn't matter if the equipment isn't switched on - if it's >capable of receiving a signal then a licence is needed. They're becoming worse then! It used to be black&white was exempted from the tax. What happened to the pound? used to be substantially more valuable than the dollar.

19 years, 10 months

NeXT users: Trillium speech products?

by THX1138＠dakotacom.net

Hi, Has anyone played with/auditioned Trillium's speech product(s)? They had an articulatory synthesizer that ran on cubes (?). I would be very interested in hearing about the quality of the speech produced, as well as any comments on where the product fell short. Thanks! --don

19 years, 10 months

KVMs

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

And lo, Don spake thusly > Hmmm... my U10 has VGVA and a 13W3. I assume one >overrides the other? They are two seperate framebuffers, and can be used for dual-heading. The 13w3 is either a Creator/ffb or an Elite3d, and will be much more satisfactory than the PGX (ATi) onboard.

19 years, 10 months

NCD NC2085AA monitor

by THX1138＠dakotacom.net

Hi, I have several of these monitors on my NCD-19c's. I'm *sure* they are a rebadged somethingorother (since the 2085 number is the same as an old RasterOps monitor I have long since discarded). *But*, like many rebadged products, it appears to be slightly different than it's sibling products. I've not been able to find any literature that would help me sort out some of the operating characteristics. Notably, how to "adjust" the screen saver function. (perhaps it is NOT adjustable on this monitor?) Pointers or first-hand experience would be welcome :> Thanks! --don

19 years, 10 months

cctalk Digest, Vol 36, Issue 40

by ken＠seefried.com

From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> >If we were gonna do a homebrew CPU, I'd sure like to see it done with >something akin to AMD 2901's. Why not build a retro cpu out of a retro >technology? Do 49c402s (4 x 2901 in PGA) or 59032s (16 x 2901 in PGA) count? Ken

19 years, 10 months

async designs

by ken＠seefried.com

From: Jeff Walther <trag at io.com> > Do > espionage types really try to sense what a processor is doing > remotely, based on the EM emissions from the chip? Yes. For example: https://www.iaik.tugraz.at/research/sca-lab/publications/pdf/Mangard2003Expl oitingRadiatedEmissions.pdf Abstract The conducted and radiated emissions of integrated circuits can not only cause interferences between electronic devices, but they also pose a security problem. The emissions of an IC executing a cryptographic algorithm contain information about the secret key used in the IC. This article gives a short introduction on how the key-dependent emissions of a cryptographic IC can be exploited. Based on two case studies, we show that the secret key used in an IC can be revealed based on measuring radiated emissions in the near and in the far field. Additionally, we discuss how the measurement setups used for the case studies can be improved to execute more advanced attacks.

19 years, 10 months

Questions on convergence...

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Convergence is the adjustment by which a monitor or TV properly overlaps the 3 separate red, blue and green images to produce a proper color image. It applies to all CRT based TV sets and monitors except those using a single image forming module for all 3 colors (e.g. DLP and most (but not all) LCD projectors, and LCD and plasma screens). Normally there are two steps, the first is "static convergence" in which the 3 images (red, blue and green) are adjusted to overlap at the exact center of the screen. The second is dynamic convergence in which the rest of the screen is "converged". Note that "perfect" convergence is generally not possible, but modern devices get very close. Also note that on some newer CRTs, some or all of the convergence adjustments are fixed at the factory and cannot be adjusted. Static convergence is usually adjusted using magnets on the CRT neck (again, common practice today is that these are set at the factory and then epoxy glued). Dynamic convergence is complex, if it's adjustable at all there can be as many as 30-40 controls effecting different colors in different parts of the screen. You also need a test pattern generator to make this adjustment (although on a computer (vs. a TV), you might be able to do it with a black screen and the letter "H" in various places). I can't give you any help for your specific device, you need to locate a service manual or you probably won't be able to do much with it.

19 years, 10 months

late 50's early 60's ibm doc

by h.j.stegeman＠hccnet.nl

Hi Jim, > Greetings. >I purchased a couple weeks ago a metal box full of >unit record docs, forms and cards ($20). Including >Ramac 305 guide and manuals for various collating, >punching, as well as some training manuals. I'd be >happy to have it go to a good home. I've got a >spreadsheet with more details I can send on request. >The box full is very heavy so I would a pickup in the >San Francisco Bay area. >. >Thanks, Jim Bitsavers.org would very good home for these IBM manuals. Regards Henk IBM collector

19 years, 10 months

async designs

by technobug＠comcast.net

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:58:56 -0700, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote: >> Chuck Guzis wrote: >>> At one time async logic was a hot topic. >> >> The IAS machine (von Neumann/late 1940s) is listed in various >> places (under >> 'clock rate') as being 'async'. (And - annoyingly - those listings >> then don't >> provide an effective instruction rate for the sake of comparison). >> >> I've been curious as to more precisely how the timing was >> accomplished in that >> (those) machines. Offhand, I suspect you still end up with delay >> elements in >> the design at various points to ensure some group (worst case) of >> signals/paths >> are all ready/stable at some point and you end with a more-or-less >> 'effective >> clock rate' anyways and don't gain much. >> >> Such all started with ENIAC didn't it?, which - based on what I've >> been able >> to find/read - could be described as an async design. >> Was async still being discussed in the 60's? > Serious theoretical work was done for relay logic prior to ENIAC and it definitely isn't dead right now. There is a substantial amount of work being done in the area with the UK being a hotspot of activity. Early this year ARM and a Philips subsidiary released an ARM core that was entirely async. For those interested, this is an excellent resource: <http://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/apt/async/> CRC

19 years, 10 months

async designs

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:58:56 -0700 >From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> >Chuck Guzis wrote: >> At one time async logic was a hot topic. > >The IAS machine (von Neumann/late 1940s) is listed in various places (under >'clock rate') as being 'async'. (And - annoyingly - those listings then don't >provide an effective instruction rate for the sake of comparison). > >I've been curious as to more precisely how the timing was accomplished in that >(those) machines. Offhand, I suspect you still end up with delay elements in >the design at various points to ensure some group (worst case) of >signals/paths >are all ready/stable at some point and you end with a more-or-less 'effective >clock rate' anyways and don't gain much. > >Such all started with ENIAC didn't it?, which - based on what I've been able >to find/read - could be described as an async design. >Was async still being discussed in the 60's? I worked on some "non-clocked" logic designs for a little company called Theseus. As far as I know they're still in business. It's been a while, so my memory is hazy and it was definitely unconventional design. The basic scheme (IIRC) was to use two wires per bit of information. Three of the four possible states were used. '0' and '1' were two of the states and 'ready' was the third state, except I don't think they called it 'ready' but that'll do for this discussion. When you reached a set of registers (flops) in the logic (say a grouping of 8 bits for a bus) you'd have 'acknowledge' logic which would would signal back upstream that it was ready for the next computation. It depended on all eight registers reaching a data state (0 or 1) before it signaled ready back upstream. Then and this is where I get hazy, all the registers would get reset to the ready state before the next set of data is processed. I think. It really has been a while. So, in practice, you have 2 to 4 times as much logic because you have two wires per bit plus acknowledge logic flowing back upstream. On the other hand, if nothing is being processed, then your circuitry is idle and not switching. This can save a bundle of power depending on the application. Additionally, the logic pipeline can operate as fast as it possibly can, without being held back by a clock. So in some cases one gains speed. And you don't have to worry about routing finicky clocks all over the chip. Still, you have the overhead of those acknowledge signals. Plus, being an unconventional logic, there are not sophisticated tools and libraries available, so it takes longer to design for and requires more design discipline from the designer. If you applied the same amount of effort and discipline to conventional design, you might end up with something just as good or better, but the non-clocked logic paradigm forces the extra effort. Supposedly, non-clocked logic can also offer greater security because there's no clock signal for remote sensors to key on when trying to sense what the CPU is doing. This seemed a little odd to me. Do espionage types really try to sense what a processor is doing remotely, based on the EM emissions from the chip? Jeff Walther

19 years, 10 months

Some more PCWorld "best of" chatter

by cclist＠sydex.com

http://tinyurl.com/kqzt6 Offered only in the spirit that it's OT for vintage computers, not for the content. Cheers, Chuck

19 years, 10 months

semiconductor mfr. logos page

by rtellason＠verizon.net

A while back I'd sort of thrown something together with a bunch of logos on a web pages, and since Jay expressed some interest in that some time back I uploaded it, but since I wasn't happy about a number of aspects of it back then I didn't link to it and didn't publicize it. Then in the past few days I got a request from one other correspondent who was looking for similar info, and pointed him at the page, which he was nicely impressed with, and at the same time dug around in my pile of downloads for some more of them I'd snagged since then. I then put this all together, and have uploaded the result, which can be seen here: http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/logos/semiconductorlogos.html and which is now also linked through my parts pages at: http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/parts-index.html Perhaps some of you will find this information useful. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

19 years, 10 months

Need quantity of old school PC monochrome adaptors ($$$)

by dastar＠vintagetech.com

I'm in need of 10 monochrome adaptor cards for the PC. I'll pay $10 each in any quantity plus shipping. Please send your offerings directly to me. I do not read the list. I need these ASAP. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

19 years, 10 months

Group buy for homebrew CPUs

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Jeff quipped >Does that mean that you *have* figured out a way to solder BGA into >place at home? It means that I haven't been able to pull any chips to practice with yet.

19 years, 10 months

Need quantity of old school PC monochrome adaptors ($$$)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Mike sayith: >Is it not rude to presume that we all subscribe to this list so that we >can read and try the fill the urgent requests of others who post to the >list but won't bother reading it? In general, probably, but I'd be inclined to give Sellam a special dispensation - he was an active listmember for quite some time and hopefully will be again when his (daughter|son, can't remember) grows up a bit. Phenomenal resource, like Tony.

19 years, 10 months

Tape Drive & Tape Archival questions...

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Don <THX1138 at dakotacom.net> wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: >> snip << > > > > I've had blets turn to a sticky rubber blob (lik e > the rollers in the > > other thread), then you can't match it up. > > I've only seen problems with "rubber feet" -- > especially on > Sun gear -- disintegrating. And, they end up > messier than > a wad of chewing gum that has been sitting in the > summer > Sun for a day... :-( > > Don I have had similar problems with the "feet" on some of my oldish consoles (I would say old but I feared people would think of the Atari's and such from the early 80's). One "foot" on the bottom of my SNES turned half to mush whilst the other three "feet" are perfectly fine! Not sure what caused it to happen... but as long as the SNES works I'm more than happy ;) Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 10 months

Group buy for homebrew CPUs

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:39:52 -0500 >From: Scott Quinn <compoobah at valleyimplants.com> >The really annoying thing about BGA is that I haven't figured a way to >desolder and reuse chips. Very vexing. Does that mean that you *have* figured out a way to solder BGA into place at home? Jeff Walther

19 years, 10 months

SMT hobby projects (was Re: group buy for homebrew CPUs?)

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:08:16 +1200 >From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> >Subject: SMT hobby projects (was Re: group buy for homebrew CPUs?) >On 8/12/06, der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> wrote: >> > That said, the notion that surface mount is somehow "harder to >> > solder" is nothing but a load of crap. It is DIFFERENT...not harder. >> >> I've never tried surface-mount chips. But I've tried soldering things >> of similar size, and for me, yes, it *is* harder. > >While parts can slip or be pulled by solder wicking things around, a >few simple tricks (soldering corners of QFPs first, using scotch tape >to hold down a 1206 SMT resistor while soldering one end...) make >things a bit easier. >I put together an IOB6120 (QFP FPGA, 0.5mm-pitch TSOP FLASH...) with a >Weller iron and no special tools... just solder wick for clean-up, and >a flux pen to help everything flow nice and cleanly. I've also done a >few CF connectors for a couple of Spare Time Gizmos projects (Elf2000 >disk board, MP3 player...) To be fair, I wasn't doing it with over-40 >eyes, but I expect that someday, I'll have to start using my bench >lens/light for everyday stuff. I agree with Ethan. Surface mount is different but not necessarily harder. I find desoldering through-hole to be many times harder than desoldering surface mount. I *hate* desoldering through-hole components, if I need to do it non-destructively. If I can destroy the component in the process it's not as bad, just tedious--very very tedious. I've desoldered and resoldered up to 208 pin QFPs so far. I've only done a couple of those. Mostly I did 160 pin QFPs. But I have not had a failure yet. That is, the chips always remained functional. There were one or two times where I had to touch up the soldering job to get the board fucntional--I sometimes remove too much solder during clean up. The trick to surface mount soldering is being aware of how surface tension can work for you and using it. It's a different set of habits and way of thinking from through-hole. I did my 208 pin QFP desolder/resolder with some Chip Quik alloy, a Milwaukee brand heat gun, modeling clay (to keep surrounding components from blowing away) a 40 watt and a 15 watt soldering pencil from Radio Shack and a little bottle of soldering flux with a brush. Oh, I guess there was a roll of solder and some spray can flux cleaner, as well as swabs and alcohol involved. But nothing expensive or exotic. Up to about 40 or 50 pins, I don't need the heat gun. The soldering pencils are sufficient. For surface mount resistors, I usually tin one pad. Then heat that pad with a pencil in one hand and place the resistor with tweezers in the other hand. Hold in place with the tweezers and remove the pencil so that the solder cools to hold the resistor in place. For magnification I use a 10X magnifying cup and hold the big end in my eye socket by squishing it into the skin around the eye, sort of like a monacle. The last time I checked these were available in the jewelry section of Ebay for under $5. Jeff Walther

19 years, 10 months

LCD question

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:41:31 -0400 >From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan at snarc.net> > Ah ... that's a relief, LOL I thought you were saying you'd never heard of >WD! > Well, there's a company called Western Design. They design ICs as far as I can tell. I don't know if there's any relationship to Western Digital, but they seem to go by WD also. Jeff Walther

19 years, 10 months

LCD question

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

LCD panels have two connections: A data cable (20 to 60 pins), and the backlight. The data cables are totally non-standard and unique, unless you got a panel that takes VGA or video inputs (this is extremely rare and not the norm). Almost every single panel is different from almost every other panel, and the connectors are impossible to get in small quantities. The backlight is just the two ends of a cold-cathode Fluorescent lamp tube 6 to 16 inches long, depending on the size of the LCD panel. It goes to a high voltage inverter mounted in the lid of the laptop with the LCD panel which produces 400 to 2,000 volts to start and run the lamp. [some larger LCD panels have multiple lamps]. The chances of being able to successfully use an LCD panel from a laptop for any other purpose are near zero.

19 years, 10 months

SMT hobby projects (was Re: group buy for homebrew CPUs?)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 8/12/06, der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> wrote: > > That said, the notion that surface mount is somehow "harder to > > solder" is nothing but a load of crap. It is DIFFERENT...not harder. > > I've never tried surface-mount chips. But I've tried soldering things > of similar size, and for me, yes, it *is* harder. While parts can slip or be pulled by solder wicking things around, a few simple tricks (soldering corners of QFPs first, using scotch tape to hold down a 1206 SMT resistor while soldering one end...) make things a bit easier. > Admittedly, that could be a lack of tools. Given a stereo loupe, > pantographic waldos, and a really fine-point soldering iron, it quite > possibly wouldn't be all that tough. But those ain't cheap, and I > think needing significantly more expensive equipment counts as > "harder". I put together an IOB6120 (QFP FPGA, 0.5mm-pitch TSOP FLASH...) with a Weller iron and no special tools... just solder wick for clean-up, and a flux pen to help everything flow nice and cleanly. I've also done a few CF connectors for a couple of Spare Time Gizmos projects (Elf2000 disk board, MP3 player...) To be fair, I wasn't doing it with over-40 eyes, but I expect that someday, I'll have to start using my bench lens/light for everyday stuff. Just this week, I did a hybrid through-hole/SMT project with an Atmel 90S2313 on a Dick Smith protoboard (Datak 12-611B for the curious) - the CPU and other chips were through-hole, but I used some SMT caps to pack enough goodies on a 24-pin-long protoboard. It was the first time I used SMT parts on a protoboard, but it was so effective that it won't be the last. I guess I just got lucky enough to get into SMT projects in the early 1990s and didn't really worry about it. I can recommend that if you are going to be doing a lot of them that the proper tools really make things easier. I did a stint with a Dremmel-sized hot-air soldering gun and an RF soldering iron and a foot-activated solder paste pump, and I have to say that it was _nice_, but I don't own those tools myself (wish I did). Even so, you can still do a lot with SOTs and 1206 resistors and a 1/32" soldering iron tip and tools that you _ought_ to own for through-hole projects. -ethan

19 years, 10 months

Group buy for homebrew CPUs

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

e.stibler pontificated: >Yup, get ready to solder .2 mm balls on 800 balls BGA. >Get your toaster-oven ready ;-) The really annoying thing about BGA is that I haven't figured a way to desolder and reuse chips. Very vexing.

19 years, 10 months

group buy for homebrew CPUs?

by jim.p.davis＠gmail.com

Dave McGuire wrote: Chuck Guzis wrote: I suspect that the legacy DIP stuff will get harder to buy new through "normal" channels, given RoHS. In the long run, I suppose we'd all better get used to working with surface mount. :( Nah, not anytime soon...unless I'm hallucinating, plenty of DIPs are available as RoHS compliant parts now. There's nothing "legacy" about DIPs just yet. That said, the notion that surface mount is somehow "harder to solder" is nothing but a load of crap. It is DIFFERENT...not harder. In fact, I find all but the very smallest SMT parts EASIER to work with than through-hole components. I suspect that someone, way back when, was afraid of it and said "it's to haaaard" and people have been propagating that rumor ever since. -Dave Dave, Close up SMD work when your pushing 40 or 50 is tricky. I can easely handle the finest pitch when I'm looking through a binoc microscope. It's quite amusing to see a 30 gauge blue wire and solder the size of a truck while trying to mod a board. Without optical assistance, I might as well be trying to neuter a fly with a butcher knife. Jim Davis.

19 years, 10 months

TCPware install problem

by jonas.otter＠gmail.com

Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> wrote: > LOGINOUT exists: LOGINOUT is the program that logs users and batch jobs in or out of VMS. If that didn't exist, I doubt very much that VMS would start up at all. Look for a command file in TCPware that starts it all up. There will be a reference there to some device that is causing your problem: wrong disk, hardware/network device not functioning, etc. There should be a log file from the startup job. What does it say? It should point you to the source of the problem. Jonas -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/417 - Release Date: 2006-08-11

19 years, 10 months

Jump to page:

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb