test-drb

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101090 discussions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: PDP-8 semiconductor memory > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:21:58 -0700 > To: "classiccmp at classiccmp.org" <classiccmp at classiccmp.org> > > >http://bitsavers.org/pdf/msc/MSC3102_PDP8semiMem.pdf > > Thanks, thats information! Allison

19 years, 10 months

PDP-8 /e/f/m memory

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP-8 /e/f/m memory > From: Don <THX1138 at dakotacom.net> > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:42:59 -0700 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> On Monday 14 August 2006 19:43, Ethan Dicks wrote: >>> On 8/15/06, woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote: >>>> If you use 2167's ( 16k x 1 ) ram's >>>> you can have 16k of memory ( 12 chips ) for >>>> about $25 not counting glue logic and other stuff. >>> Why not use a pair of 62256s? 32Kx16 and ignore 4 bits. It'd even be >>> easy to use a Dallas DS1210 or something like it to provide battery >>> backup. >> >> I'd probably do something like what the SBC-6120 does... use some typical 486 >> motherboard cache SRAM. Cheap, and relatively easy to find. :) > >Outrageous overkill. What's that, 10ns memory? What's the 8's >memory cycle time?? ;-) PDP-8 is slow, 1.2 to 1.6us memory cycle time (read, modify, write) so anything under 500ns is overkill. Cache rams can cycle fast, those from 486boards were typically in the 15- 25ns range. However, overkill is ok as finding a source for show rams is unlikely (old 2102s were orignally that slow). Since most parts I have like the Alliance 7C256 are cmos slowing them down also allows for lower power. Even if they were NMOS a mere 25ma (I have some old 61256s) standby would still allow for short term backup as its only two of them. Since the system is not portable (it is a PDP8!) and lives near outlets a wall wart of small size could easily supply the power for the entire memory rather than resort to battery. For my case it's not an issue, it's ok if it forgets after power off. Usually when I demonstrate the PDP-8 I like to toggle in a 20word program to do inchworm on the accumulator lamps. So even if it forgot wheres the harm. I went through the exercise above to point out that with some imagination there are solutions. Allison > >> You'd end up with one or two chips to do 32k x 12. >> >> Pat

19 years, 10 months

PDP-8 /e/f/m memory

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP-8 /e/f/m memory > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:59:31 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >On Aug 14, 2006, at 8:54 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: >>> > Why not use a pair of 62256s? 32Kx16 and ignore 4 bits. It'd even >>> be >>> > easy to use a Dallas DS1210 or something like it to provide battery >>> > backup. >>> >>> I'd probably do something like what the SBC-6120 does... use some >>> typical 486 >>> motherboard cache SRAM. Cheap, and relatively easy to find. :) >>> >>> You'd end up with one or two chips to do 32k x 12. >> >> 32Kx8 are easy to find as old cache RAM. They are not, however, low >> power, and would not be the best solution if you wanted to hang a >> battery off of them. OTOH, unless you are using paper tape software >> only, chances are you have a mass storage device and are booting into >> OS/8 and don't really need battery backup. > > True, but I think the idea there was to duplicate the functionality >of core, i.e. the nonvolatility in this case. Presumed only. Though with the parts I ahve it would be easy it was not a significant consideration. > That said, though, I've not found 486 motherboard cache memory to be >particularly easy to find. I did, however, buy a box of about 80 6264 >chips on eBay a few months ago for fifteen bucks. And 62256s are still >manufactured, as far as I'm aware. Both are easy to find. My supply of RAM came off some really nice but excess 486 boards must from the 1995-1998 timeframe. Allison

19 years, 10 months

Mac keyboards

by THX1138＠dakotacom.net

Hi, I have an "Apple Adjustable Keyboard" -- a wacky keyboard that splits in the center ("ergonomic"?) and has an auxillary "function/numeric" keyboard that sits alongside it (sheesh! What a wacky arrangement -- how to use up the most desktop space with the least added functionality! :< ) Needless to say, I am not happy with it. What should I be looking for as an alternative? Thanks!

19 years, 10 months

LCD question

by r_a_feldman＠hotmail.com

>From: "Barry Watzman" <Watzman at neo.rr.com> >Subject: Re: LCD question <snip> >The chances of being able to successfully use an LCD panel from a laptop >for any other purpose are near zero. I haven't been following this thread too closely, but you might find some useful information on the eio.com site, starting at http://eio.com/lcdintro.htm. There is a discussion of hooking up laptop LCD's to PC's at http://eio.com/lcdconnect.htm. Bob

19 years, 10 months

PDP-8 semiconductor memory

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/msc/MSC3102_PDP8semiMem.pdf

19 years, 10 months

KVM's

by THX1138＠dakotacom.net

Hi, In an attempt to cut down on the number of monitors, etc. here, I dragged out an old KVM (which, unfortunately, seems to have lost track of his wal wart!). It doesn't take long to realize that this is a non-solution: - keyboards are PS2, Sun, USB, ADB, etc. - mice are PS2, Serial, Sun, USB, ADB, etc. - video is Sun's 13W3, HD15, DEC's RGB, apple's DB15, etc. Does anyone make a *truly* universal KVM (i.e. so that I can mix and match all of these flavors)? And, how outrageously priced is it? Or, do I just have to get used to hiding "not in use" mice, etc. out of the way?

19 years, 10 months

TI 990 with disks, manuals, software

by recycler＠swbell.net

Is there any interest in a TI 990 system complete, this has the CPU in cabinet with switches and lights, complete, manuals, software, and disk drives including removable disk packs, extras, is exceptionally clean as in computer room, and was running recently until the business changed software. Certainly bound to me in much nicer and less-used condition than what is showing up lately. Please reply off-list.

19 years, 10 months

OT: Funniest ./configure message ever

by segin2005＠gmail.com

checking for something to drink while compiling... err: no fridge found! (and yes, that's an actual message a ./configure script spat out at me. It's from the TiEmu 2.08 source package.) -- The real problem with C++ for kernel modules is: the language just sucks. -- Linus Torvalds

19 years, 10 months

Apple IIgs and SGI

by rborsuk＠colourfull.com

I have for free: 2 - apple IIgs's (Both units power up)(please don't ask what Revision) nothings included - Computers only 1 - SGI Origin I/O module (working system pull) Just pay shipping or pickup from 48047. IIgs weigh 14 lbs each (with packing)( or 28lbs together). Will ship the IIgs's via UPS and I/O module via USPS. Figure $8.50 Priority for the I/O module. First come first serve. Rob ps. Please USA only

19 years, 10 months

HP PARISC G30

by CaptnZilog＠aol.com

One more to go, too heavy to ship, CT area as well (willing to drive if someone wants it), HP G30 server, PARISC. No Hard drive/OS. Hate to, but probably someone takes it or it'll hit a dumpster. Would rather find it a "good home" if someone is interested tho. _phufnagel at snet.net_ (mailto:phufnagel at snet.net) - Pete

19 years, 10 months

PDP-8 /e/f/m memory

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP-8 /e/f/m memory > From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:54:00 +1200 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 8/15/06, Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> wrote: >> On Monday 14 August 2006 19:43, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> > Why not use a pair of 62256s? 32Kx16 and ignore 4 bits. It'd even be >> > easy to use a Dallas DS1210 or something like it to provide battery >> > backup. >> >> I'd probably do something like what the SBC-6120 does... use some typical 486 >> motherboard cache SRAM. Cheap, and relatively easy to find. :) >> >> You'd end up with one or two chips to do 32k x 12. > >32Kx8 are easy to find as old cache RAM. They are not, however, low >power, and would not be the best solution if you wanted to hang a >battery off of them. I have a bag of them I salvaged from old 386 and 486s and most are either low power or CMOS. I've bumped into a few of the older NMOS parts that are not low power but they do gow down in power when deselected. Nothing like the old 2114 or 2147 or 2167. However power it not a prime consideration as the lamps on the FP are a big load compared to most everthing else. For me it's board space, heat and a one card solution. Allison >OTOH, unless you are using paper tape software >only, chances are you have a mass storage device and are booting into >OS/8 and don't really need battery backup. > >-ethan

19 years, 10 months

Apollo DN systems

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I did a little > work on porting NetBSD to and then have just never had the time to pursue. I contacted you a while back, and am still VERY interested in the hardware information that you were able to figure out on the DN systems. There is very little documentation on the hardware around.

19 years, 10 months

SMT PDP-8 (was Re: group buy for homebrew CPUs?)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 8/14/06, Peter C. Wallace <pcw at mesanet.com> wrote: > > One thing that I think *would* be awesome in surface mount, > > would be to do a "scale model" based on the straight-8, with > > all those little SMT diodes and transistors, and no logic > > IC's at all (except possibly some SMT RAM to replace the core > > planes) :-). > > > > Vince > > > > (It might also be cool to make some of the diodes the glowing kind.) > > > > That has been discussed before. It would be fun to do something like the > PDP8-S on a single PCB with only resistors, capacitors, SOT-23 transistors and > dual diodes (And yes LEDs in all the FF outputs would be nice). I'd build one, especially if it was Negibus-compatible. I could attach a real DF-32 to it. ;-) Has anyone estimated the physical size? A real PDP-8/S has about 1000 transistors and a lot more passives than that, not counting external things like a TTY interface (besides serializing the ALU, that's one of the ways they shoehorned Straight-8 technology into such a tiny box). One could always start small and build something simpler from the same technology - a simple clock or something - sort of a test-drive to see what the scope of a full processor would entail. -ethan

19 years, 10 months

Trying to locate some missing tapes...

by cclist＠sydex.com

You folks who buy those lots from DoveBid may want to check into some of the stuff and see if you can locate a tape or two for NASA: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060814/ts_nm/space_tapes_dc_2 (Just kidding--NASA would NEVER surplus this stuff, would they?)

19 years, 10 months

Old Apollo 68K systems

by phufnagel＠snet.net

Just figured I'd post this out here... I have a collection of old Apollo DN systems (3000,3010,3500,4000,4500,5500 I think sums it up) I did a little work on porting NetBSD to and then have just never had the time to pursue. Might be willing to part with them to someone in the New England area, since I have monitors with some of them, and OS tapes, spare hard drives, etc. Anyone interested, feel free to contact me... really not up for shipping monitors around, but for someone fairly local with interest I might be willing to do a road trip. -- Pete

19 years, 10 months

ID these boards?

by rtellason＠verizon.net

I have a couple of boards here, not sure what the heck they are... They're both full-length ISA cards, a 50-pin (!) D-type connector on the metal bracket, 3 or 4 sets of DIP switches, and a LOT of jumpers. (70-80!) Both are marked "Frontier TEchnologies Corp. AdCom 2-M Controller", one is also marked "Version 3" (this one also has a holder for a coin cell on it) and the other one "Version 5". There's also a Z80-SIO and an 8253 on each board, and the Version 3 one has an 8255 as well. While I'm at it, I also have a keyboard here marked "Wyse Technology 1983" with a really odd 10-pin plug on the end of the cable. Nice individual keyswitches if anybody wants that for salvage, or can use the cable. This one' s a little different than a lot of that other stuff in that there's no LSI on the board. Complete except for the plastic covers not being there. Anybody have any use for this or parts of it? -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

19 years, 10 months

Cleaning microfiche?

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Does anyone have any idea on how to remove oil from Microfiche? The History Resource Center has a stack of fiche with oil all over it that needs to be cleaned up. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

19 years, 10 months

Questions on convergence...

by newyork.techie＠gmail.com

I have an old (over 11yrs old) Hitachi 21" CRT model CM2111MU (sub model 512), also known as a SuperScan Mc21HR RasterOps, that seems to have a little overlap/failure to line-up on the colors (also known as a convergence issue as I've been told). I can't seem to find anyone in the area who still works on these damned things. Anyone have any pointers to fixing convergence issues or know of anyone in the Hudson Valley area (NY) that could fix this big bastard? Any assistance would be greatly appeciated. PS: I'm currently also working on acquiring a semi-working old MAC Classic II (I believe), are there any resource sites that have technical sheets, etc. to fixing it? John Boffemmyer IV

19 years, 10 months

KVMs

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Don said > Amusing to think someone will spend $125+/node >just to live WITHOUT a keyboard! :-( Somewhat disappointing, too. The way you run servers without keyboards is using a serial terminal plugged into a multiplexer. Clean, and substantially less pricy. No Wizards or other excuses, though - you have to know your stuff for that.

19 years, 10 months

Asynch designs (OT)

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk > wrote: > Don wrote: > > Stan Barr wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Jules Richardson said: > >> > >>> Given that the licence is only for the BBC > channels, and I'll perhaps > >>> watch 2-3 hours of them per week, it works out > as quite an expense > >>> per programme! > >> > >> Not quite - the licence is for having _any_ > equipment installed in your > >> home capable of receiving broadcast tv - _any_ > broadcast tv. The money > >> goes (mostly) to the bbc, but a licence is > required for any broadcast > >> tv equipment including, but not limited to, a t v > set, video or dvd > >> recorder with a tuner or a computer with a tune r. > You still have to > >> pay even if you never watch the bbc :-( > > > > So, the *tuner* is the gotcha? I.e. if you used a > component > > DVD player/recorder, a video *monitor*, etc. > *they* would be > > exempt? > > Actually, the way I always understood it is that t he > licence fee funds the BBC > and isn't used for anything else (such and funding > general transmitter > install/upkeep). But the Government call it a "TV > licence" even though all the > cash goes to the BBC, and therefore you need to pa y > for the licence if you > want to watch any channels, not just the BBC. > > I don't know how well it's been challenged in cour t > - but as the BBC transmits > on slightly different frequencies across the count ry > it'd be hard to market a > device that was guaranteed not to be able to recei ve > the BBC now or in the > future, whilst being able to receive anything else . > Thats the way I think it works too. I believe the BBC had to renew the patent (or whatever) a few years ago, so we'll be paying them for another 50 years or so. For those outside the US, the BBC also runs atleast 5 main radio stations , plus local ones, here in the UK. Also, some handheld games devices such as my Sega Gamegear (and I believe Nintendo's Game Boy Advance) have TV Tuners which allow them to receive terrestrial TV. Not quite sure how good the picture quality is as I don't have a PSU for my Gamegear yet! :( Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 10 months

PDP-8 /e/f/m memory

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP-8 /e/f/m memory > From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:41:55 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Chuck wrote... >> I did a semiconductor memory design for the OMNIBUS several years ago. It >> was for an -8/e and 32kW using two SRAMs. I never got to documenting it >> outside of my notebook, but if there is enough interest, I could do some >> schematics. It is battery backed, so its pretty much equivalent to the >> core I was replacing. > >Maybe it was your diagram I got years ago. Someone did a nice 32kw board for >the 8e using two 2114's I think it was. I have the schematics somewhere Must have been two 61256. the 2114 is a 1kx4 memory and three would be needed to create a word wide memory. I know this as I made a 3k ram for a 6100 system. The 61256 is 32kx8, two would be 32kx16, throw away 4 bits and you have a 32k word memory cheap. >still. The only reason I didn't build it right away was because at the time >I got them, the person said "these schematics aren't quite final, there may >have been some tweaking afterwards that didn't make it to the schematic" so >I just sat on them. > >A known working design - I'd want to build that in a heartbeat :) > >Jay West I figured before I embark as it will be winter before I WWrap it (too warm now) I'd check and see if someone else attacked the problem. Allison

19 years, 10 months

Scanning formats

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote: > On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 09:49:16AM -0700, Chuck > Guzis wrote: > > In any case, the LZW patent is now firmly > ensconced in history and should > > not be a reason to avoid a particular compressed > format. > > ...with the exception that LZW was never very > efficient to begin > with. :-) LZ77 variants (specifically LZSS and i ts > variants) have always > outperformed LZ78 variants like LZW. > -- > Jim Leonard LZW was the first compression method I am able to understand and use... although the compression/decompression does get very slow. I understand the (fixed) Huffman method in theory, but am currently unable to implement it. I certainly wouldn't even know where to start for the variable Huffman method :( Has anyone created their own compression method or have any pointers for someone wanting to create their own? Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 10 months

Cleaning microfiche?

by wulfcub＠gmail.com

On 8/8/06, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > Does anyone have any idea on how to remove oil from Microfiche? The > History Resource Center has a stack of fiche with oil all over it > that needs to be cleaned up. A great deal will depend on the type of fiche. If they're originals, you can use a soft cloth (such as diaper flannel or jersey t-shirt material) and isopranol, "tape head cleaner" (used to get it at radio shack), or high-proof isopropyl alcohol. If it's a colored fiche (ie: diazo duplicate), this is NOT what you want to do. Alcohol tends to kill diazo rather handily. Good old water and a very mild soap works great. No scrubbing for either, as you'll tear the emulsion. Just gently work it with the soft cloth. One you've got it cleaned up, you can rinse it with clean water (distilled), blot the excess, and let it air-dry, or use a hair dryer set on "cool/no heat." I deal with this type of damage on occassion. One of the perks of working for a microfilm shop. --Shaun -- "If you live to be a hundred, I want to live to be a hundred minus one day, so I never have to live without you." -- Winnie The Pooh http://www.lungs4amber.org

19 years, 10 months

Anyone know about repairing a Grid Compass?

by evan＠snarc.net

Problem with my 1101 -- it turns on but I only get a bunch of vertical lines instead of the splash screen. It worked fine until a couple of months ago. I haven't got any clue about how to fix this. Can anyone help?

19 years, 10 months

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