I am playing around right now with a Tandy 2000, but it has no floppy drive. THE
HD works fine, but I'd love to get the information off the HD, and that is
difficult right now :). I tried a couple of standard 360K/1.2MB drives before
Googling around. Does anyone have any information about what can be used as a
replacement drive?
Interestingly, the information I've seen indicates that the Tandy 2000 runs a
modified version of MS-DOS 2.11 but the version on this machine is 2.0.
I'm picking different pieces of various leftover /34 systems to make mine. I
have a question about the regulators in the back of the /34's ba11k.
Exactly what regulators are required as a minimum for a /34 that is just a
dd11-pk with no expansion? Assume just a processor, one memory board, RL11
controller, one DL11W... nothing heavy. I have one ba11 with regulators in 4
positions and one with regulators in positions 1-3. However, one had a RK11D
which I'm removing, one had a DD11-DK addition which I won't be using... and
I would prefer to remove regulators that won't be used so they can sit on a
shelf as spares and not be powered up all the time.
I've looked in the 11/34 user manual as well as the ba11k technical manual
and I can't seem to put together this info. Can someone point me in the
right direction?
Jay West
Don wrote....
> The issue is there are two different aspects of the UNIBUS that are being
> terminated:
Aha. Now that makes sense! Thank you :)
What that means to me then is that in the /34 the 9302 should only be
plugged in to a the AB unibus out slot and NOT in a MUD slot, otherwise, you
get a funny smell I bet :)
So what about the 9312 in the /34 then. I assume it can only (no matter HOW
it's jumpered) be put in a MUD (AB) slot, never in an AB unibus slot (Unibus
in or Unibus Out). ??
Then, this of course brings me back to my dearly beloved (sarcasm) /45. In
that machine, the cpu doesn't terminate anything from what I understand,
hence the 930 at the front in slot 1AB. I assume in the /45 then, you CAN
put the (appropriately jumpered) 9312 in the last slot (unibus out), and
that you don't put another 930 in that slot and put the 9312 in a prior AB
slot. Is that all correct?
Thanks so much!
Jay
actually we are both wrong, the macro was used to make the call external if needed. The near declaration was required to tell the assembler what addressing to use. If the label was in the module being assembled, then the assembler knew what size to use.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
>Sent: Oct 12, 2006 4:07 PM
>To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>Subject: Re: MSDOS Source code leaked
>
>On 10/12/2006 at 3:34 PM Steve Thatcher wrote:
>
>>invoke is a macro that allows for handling small code model versus large
>>code model...
>
>The INVOKE macro cited merely declares the target of the call to be NEAR if
>not already defined.
>
>By the time MASM 6 (aka ML) came out, extended INVOKE was well internalized
>into MASM--and allowed parameter passing (as well as simplified segment
>definitions, procedure prototypes, procedure-local labels and a host of
>other worthwhile features). But this was just a formalization of what many
>programmers were already doing via macros.
>
>Cheers,
>Chuck
>
>
Hi,
I posted this to the rescue list but have had no response :<
So, I'll try again, here...
------
I've been trying to move my various peripherals into
611-type cases. Hopefully, get things a bit better
organized.
These stack nicely with ~12" (WIDE SCSI) cables to
daisy chain from the OUT of one to the IN of the next.
But, some *other* cases aren't quite as well-behaved.
For example, stacking anything atop a 711 case requires
a slightly longer cable to tether the 711 to the 611.
Likewise, a 622 (?) needs a "cable stretcher" to span
the gap to an adjacent 711/611/etc.
Did Sun make *slightly* longer wide cables? Like 18"?
Obviously, I want to use short cables to keep the chain
as short as possible...
And, can anyone suggest a good source for the ~12"
and similar cables?
Is there anything else I should be wary of?
Thanks!
--don
> From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan at snarc.net>
>
> http://stores.ebay.com/Computer-Marketing-Services
>
> I found some interesting things to buy, but then saw the prices... not only
> are they ASTRONOMICAL but the seller lists almost every item, even ordinary
> keyboards, as "Very Rare"... I wanted a Canon X-07 and a Toshiba T100 but he
> posted them at $299 and $399 respectively. What the hell!?!?!?
Okay, I got curious to see if he was selling anything. Checking all of his
listings going back to those that closed a month ago, not a single item has been
sold. This starts to restore my faith in the human race again :). I didn't check
to see if they had a website and if they are using Ebay as inexpensive
advertising to divert people to their website.
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&useri…
http://stores.ebay.com/Computer-Marketing-Services
I found some interesting things to buy, but then saw the prices... not only
are they ASTRONOMICAL but the seller lists almost every item, even ordinary
keyboards, as "Very Rare"... I wanted a Canon X-07 and a Toshiba T100 but he
posted them at $299 and $399 respectively. What the hell!?!?!?
My lord, that's a HUGE wad of code for something as simple as
MS-DOS... How the HECK can an OS that fits on a floppy with room to
spare have 20 megs of ASM source. Does the wad include the tools that
M$ ripped off like Doublespace and the like?
invoke is a macro that allows for handling small code model versus large code model...
located in dosmac.inc
; call a procedure that may be external. The call will be short.
invoke MACRO name
.xcref
IF2
IFNDEF name
EXTRN name:NEAR
ENDIF
ENDIF
.cref
CALL name
ENDM
.xcref invoke
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bryan Pope <bpope at wordstock.com>
>Sent: Oct 12, 2006 2:35 PM
>To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>Subject: Re: MSDOS Source code leaked
>
>And thusly were the wise words spake by Jim Leonard
>>
>> woodelf wrote:
>> > How do we know it was not cross-assembled?
>>
>> A quick poke at the code shows stuff in the .asm like "invoke (routine)"
>
>Don't you mean PEEK? ;)
>
>
>> so there must have been something going on. I'm not familiar with
>> "invoke", rather CALL and the like.
>>
>
>Cheers,
>
>Bryan
>
>P.S. And don't worry, I'll be here all week...
>
TSIA :)
I was skimming through the 11/34 manuals, and some confusion about the
termination of that system made me re-read through the M9312 manual.
Something doesn't seem right and points to me not understanding something. I
seek enlightenment from the list.
As I've understood things, you have to terminate both ends of the unibus.
Let's say you're dealing with an 11/34 with no expansion backplanes (ie.
just a DD11-PK). According to the 11/34 manual you put the M9302 terminator
in slot 9AB. That makes sense, it's the unibus out. All the other AB slots
are MUD (except slot 1AB, and we'll get to THAT in a moment). So about that
other end of the bus now! The manual states you need a M9301
bootstrap/terminator just after the processor (typically, it may be further
down if you have the FP and/or Cache options). That also makes sense to me,
gotta terminate that "near" bus end. I had a M9302, but I didn't have a
M9301. I wondered if I could use a M9312 in place of the M9301. So...
I skimmed the M9312 bootstrap/terminator manual, and sure enough, it
definitely talks about being able to use the M9312 instead of a M9301 in a
processor that "has bus termination built into the cpu such as the 11/04 &
11/34". It even says that you must set the jumpers on the M9312 to remove
it's termination capability, because in these specific processors the cpu
provides bus termination. Ok, great. I can use my M9312 in place of the
M9301 long as I jumper it as described. But... now wait a second! This gives
rise to my first question. If the cpu is providing termination, and if you
are going to use a M9312 on the near side you have to "jumper off" the
M9312's termination ability... then WHY is a M9301 called a "bootstrap
TERMINATOR". It must NOT be a terminator, just a bootstrap rom card. Right?
It seems to me that if the cpu is providing the termination on the near end,
that it is always doing so. Not JUST when you pull out the 9301 and put in
the 9312. What gives there?
That gives rise to my second question. IF the cpu is providing unibus
termination on the one side... why can't you jumper the M9312 to provide bus
termination and just put it in slot 9AB? You would get the other end (unibus
out) terminated AND get your boot roms as well. This way the M9312 would
replace both the 9301 AND the 9302. A few people I mentioned this to said
you can't do that. But given the above... it seems logical. What's the scoop
here?
Clarification is much appreciated!
Jay West
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:07:29 -0700
>From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
>Subject: Re: What the hell -- CRAZY prices
>To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>Message-ID: <200610111407290781.63264317 at 10.0.0.252>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>On 10/11/2006 at 3:27 PM Jeff Walther wrote:
>
>>After the auction, the high bidder had the gall to email me to tell
>>me that he sells items of the type I'm interested in and that I
>>should visit his store.
>
>This is the reason that I use "sniping" on ePay--waiting until the last
>second or two to place a bid.
I did, in fact, use snipeswipe on that auction. But he had a higher
bid in place than my snipe. Like I wrote, it wasn't losing the
item, that didn't surprise me as my bid was low. It was being
emailed by this guy who clearly didn't want the item, he was just
outbidding others so he could turn around and charge them more money
that it would have cost them if his sorry chemical composition was
disassociated.
Jeff Walther
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:27:38 -0400
>From: Ray Arachelian <ray at arachelian.com>
>Robert Borsuk wrote:
>> The interesting thing is that he will list items for bidding, then if
>> they don't sell he will relist them at a higher price.
>> He does eventually sell things so I guess it encourages the high prices.
>I've seen this kind of behavior before. It seems to be a new business
>model.
>
>It works by listing and relisting the same items, or opening it as a
>store and listing them always. Whenever anyone sells a similar item
>that competes with the store, that store bids and buys the item, then
>relists it at the higher price. Even if they don't win those items,
>they'll at least drive up the prices for them to be in range with what
>their store is selling, thus driving up the expected price for that item
>in the market.
>
>The end goal is to be the only source for a set of items, and to be
>always available. The high price of the items justifies their cost of
>doing business (space, ebay fees, buying competing items, etc.) but of
>course screws the buyers. In the long run, supposedly, they wind up
>making more money by being the only source.
>
>That's what you're seeing.
I think I experienced this first hand within the last year.
I bid on a Fujitsu magneto-optical drive. Ah, here's the URL still
on my Snipeswipe page
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8786740987> .
I was willing to go to about $16 (with shipping it would have been
closer to $30).
After the auction, the high bidder had the gall to email me to tell
me that he sells items of the type I'm interested in and that I
should visit his store. Of course, he sells MO drives for well over
$100.
So this creature outbids me and then tries to turn around and sell me
the same item at a higher price. If I had been willing to pay more,
I would have bid higher.
I can't point out some way in which this behaviour is morally wrong,
but it is certainly irritating.
Jeff Walther
Make them an offer. There seems to be group of sellers that list things at
prices that would have been apropos for a depot repair kind of outfit before
eBay existed looking for the "OMFG I have to have that part" hit, but are
more than willing to listen to deals offline.
Ken
I don't know about the timeline of Silent 700s, but I seem to have a few of the
bulkier ones in my garage (near San Jose, CA) complete with cassette tape
drives if anyone wants to "take them off my hands".
I even have a manual somewhere. I've also got some of the smaller ones (with
built in acoustic coupler) but I'll probably keep that one (unless offered some
$$$). If interested, contact me off list.
They were introduced in the 70's (75/76?) as I remember. If you had your Bell
103 modem (I have one of those, another story), they were pretty neat things
for "offline" editing of text files. Not exactly a vi editor, but better than
paper tape (that's not saying much).
Pretty reliable as a "hard copy" (thermal printing) terminal. Now days, you
can use thermal FAX paper in them and it works OK. Great to hook up to your
DP-8 or something of similar vintage.
Just a few facts.....
--
Tom Watson
tsw at johana.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Is it just me, or is it now impossible to solder properly with "lead free"
solder and "lead free" flux?
Is there a decent make of flux available (like you used to get in those
little round metal tins, and is nicotine brown in colour), rather than that
utterly useless white water-based stuff?
Also, while I'm ranting, the white rubbish flux I bought (to try to get a
recalcitrant wire soldered up) has more warnings than I've ever seen on any
product except peanuts before. Is it my imagination, or is it actually more
dangerous than the stuff it's replaced?
Grrr
Adrian Vickers.
(PS: This has nothing to do with terminals - I was fabricating a new battery
pack for an Epson PX-8, due to the terminal expiration of the original)
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.1/469 - Release Date: 09/10/2006
Hello Jesse,
I do not longer collect them, the museum is defunct. I will forward
your message to the classic computer collectors list, by CC.
Thanks,
Patrick
TO CC members: please contact the gentleman "Jesse Bunch" directly if
you have an interest in the below described equipment. The pro380 as I
recall is quite a nice box and the 350 is nothing to sneeze at.
Thank you,
Patrick
SpiriTek1 at aol.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have 9 DEC PRo 350's and 380's plus color and mono monitors for them,
> cables, boards, even one unit mounted on the stand with wheels. Do you
> have any interest in these? I am in Silver Spring, MD. I got these
> over 10 years ago when I used to buy computer eqpt from Federal Govt
> auctions and resell eqpt.
>
>
> 301-910-7858
Hi folks,
today I digged out some PDP11 modules. I wonder what I can do with them.
A Plessey-labeled Unibus Box with 11/34 front panel (the simple one) is
still waiting to be picked up by me or put to scrap...
Ok, what I found:
* DEC M8265+M8266 (11/34A CPU), M9301 bootstrap/terminator
Question: Is that enough to get the machine going? Do I need anything
else (except memory and a kind of tty interface)? What about the "parity
controller" which I don't have?
* Plessey PM-DC/11 "status control", P/N 700485-100C
Plessey PM-K11 "disc control", P/N 700490-101E
Plessey PM-K11 "data control", P/N 700475-100B
Plessey PMDC/11 "bus control", P/N 700470-100B
These are four quad wide boards. I have no clue what they are/where good
for. No connectors. Some DIP switches.
If anyone could help me out with some information and/or docs - would
be great.
* Plessey PM-DC1100, P/N 703380-100H
This hex wide board looks like an Unibus SMD disk controller.
If it's that I am VERY VERY VERY interested in information about that.
At the place I found the parts there is still an SMD drive....
It has three 26 pin ribbon connectors and one 60 pin connector.
* Plessey memory board (?!), P/N 701830-100G
Some information about that would be great. If anyone has something to
share....
Ok, if anyone can help me.....
All the stuff is available to anybody urgently needing it.
Good night,
Philipp :-)
Hello guys,
thanks alot for your answers. Unfortunately, I hadn't time yet to read the articles but I'll sure do that as soon as it's the case.
To answer the question where I'm situated; I live in Germany. Lawers around here try to find possibilities to gain money by pointing out websites
in wwhich law stuff my be broken in any way. It's absolutely rediculous and I don't want to have to pay a thousand euro jsut because a picture had
been used without getting a permission for example.
But from what you've been pointing out, it seems that it's not a problem to use some logos in the given context.
And the context after all is purely educational / historical. So I guess that it shouldn't be a problem.
I dont think that there will be issues the my ISP.
Nethertheless, is it necessary to ad something like "Alll logos are trademarks of their owners bla bla..." ?
Anyway, my site will be up soonish, I'll post a comment as soon as it's the case, as I'd like to get your opinions about it.
Thanks,
Pierre
> Chuck Guzis wrote:
> > On 10/10/2006 at 6:37 PM Jim Leonard wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, but he's not using the marks for any sort of financial gain or
> >> libel, so again, he should be fine.
> >
> > In fact, trademark fair-use guidelines are much more liberal and
> > straightforward than those of copyrighted material. "Fair use' in
> > copyright is a mare's nest situated in a minefield.
>
> Surely it's all academic given that we don't know where the original poster
> lives (they didn't say) - won't the copyright law vary wildly from country to
> country? I suspect that the law which applies is the law in the site owner's
> home country, which we don't know.
>
> *generally* I'd say that putting up a bunch of logos for non-profit use should
> be fine - it's not like it's doing the company any harm, or releasing
> information into the wild which isn't already readily visible elsewhere. About
> the worst I'd expect is a polite letter once in a blue moon along the lines
> of: "our logo has changed; please take the old one down and replace it with
> the new one".
>
> As I said though, I'm sure each country's laws differ, and given the global
> nature of the 'net the ones which apply are probably those for the site
> owner's home country (or possibly the country in which their site's ISP is
> based, if different)
>
> cheers
>
> Jules
>
>
> --
> If you've ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow
> You need buttermilk and cheese, and an equilateral chainsaw
_______________________________________________________________________
Viren-Scan f?r Ihren PC! Jetzt f?r jeden. Sofort, online und kostenlos.
Gleich testen! http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=022222
Not exactly, but I can get close (I worked for TI ... in fact in the printer
division). They were introduced in the early-1970's ... I was using second
generation models in 1977. By 1989 (when I joined TI), I'm pretty sure that
they had been discontinued, but they were still in widespread use, and were
still being supported.
Barry Watzman
Watzman at neo.rr.com
***************
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 03:32:57 -0400
From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan at snarc.net>
Subject: Timeline of Silent 700 models?
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <002501c6ed07$79196820$6401a8c0 at DESKTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Per the subject line .... does anyone know of a thorough list of all TI
Silent 700 terminals and the years of introduction?
Hello All
I'm still looking for help with the second rescue attempt in Georgia and
need either 182 donors of $10 each or 1820 at $1 each. I would like to get
to these items before winter really gets here, so please if you can spare a
$1 (one buck) send it to the Houston Computer Museum, 15827 Thistledew
Drive, Houston, TX 77082-1432. Cash or a check will do. Again the first trip
was a great success and many thanks to all donors for that rescue.
www.housoncomputermuseum.org
Thanks in advance to all,
John Keys
Hey all,
just a question: I'm working on a website which presents my collection of classic computers.
On the left side, there will be a navigatio bar with the company names and the respective modes.
I'd like to directly use the logos (images) of the brands in order to represent their names.
Could I run into to difficulties doing that? E.g. a company asking me to remove it or otherwise being confrontated
with law issues ?
For those who run a website? What are your experiences?
Thanks for any hints.
Regards,
Pierre
_______________________________________________________________________
Viren-Scan f?r Ihren PC! Jetzt f?r jeden. Sofort, online und kostenlos.
Gleich testen! http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=022222
I've tried manually searching the archives, but I can't find any references...
Was there someone who would be able to read 3 DECtapes for me? Two of them are
>from PDP-11 RSTS systems. The third has sources from ancient UNIX (circa 1974)
possibly 4th or 5th edition.
Thanks in advance!
-scott
staylor at smedley dot mrynet dot com
