test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 09:51:16 -0800 >From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> >I picked up another Mac yesterday--a beige 300 Mhz G3 with 256MB, >and a 15 GB hard disk. It's also got a USB adapter plugged into one >of the PCI slots. It's running OS 9.something. Set me back $20. >Were Zip drives a standard part of these things? > >On a side-by-side with a Win2K P1 225MHz system with the same amount >of memory, I think the WIndoze box has snappier response and has >better video. > >For you Mac addicts, what do you think should be my next step in >getting the most out of this box? My experience with the Beige G3 is that the stock hard drives are slow as molasses. The built-in IDE bus is only 16.7 MB/s (whichever ATA that is) but the hard drive doesn't even perform up to that level--at least mine did not. Once I installed a more modern hard drive (faster media rate, i.e. faster data from platters to heads) the machine showed a marked improvement in performance. Beyond that, you can easily spend more upgrading than a faster newer machine would cost you on the used market. That said... A faster IDE card would improve things as well. Acard makes a very nice two channel ATA-133 card however, it will set you back about twice what you paid for the machine. Some years ago VST Tech sold an ATA-66 card based on the Promise UltraTek 66 card. If you move three or four SM resistors, possibly pull the half-size metal can oscillator (there are different versions of the UT66 and some have the Osc. and others don't) and desolder and reprogram the Winbond Flash chip, you can convert a cheap (<$5) Promise UltraTek66 into a VST UltraTek66. If you care, I'll try to hunt up the conversion instructions. The Promise cards were apparently OEM in DELL machines or some such, so there are a bunch of them on the used market. The bus speed and bus-CPU multiplier are controlled by a jumper block on the front left of the motherboard. You can change the bus speed >from 66MHz to 75 (IIRC) or 83 MHz by moving jumpers. However, many of the Beige G3s won't operate at 83 MHz and tests show that this doesn't really make a big difference in performance. The 300 MHz CPU can often be run at around 366 MHz, so you can speed your CPU a bit by changing the bus-CPU ratio. Many folks have done this reliably, but my experience was that it caused problems after a while. CPU replacements up to 1.1 GHz are also available but the manufacturer's (PowerLogix) retail outlet (OWC, macsales.com) seems to be out of them. See above about spending more money than a newer used computer would cost... There's a gap in speeds between 500 MHz and 900 MHz having to do with the version history of the PPC750. The machine used PC66 SDRAM but PC100 or PC133 will also work. DIMM capacities up to 256 MB are supported but some addressing modes are not. So you need (I think) 16 chip DIMMs on the 256 MB capacity. IIRC eight chip 256 MB DIMMs will not work or will only be seen as 128 MB. 512 MB DIMMs won't work because of limitations of the Motorola/Freescale MPC106 memory/PCI controller/bridge. For the things where my memory is hazy (indicated by a ? or "I think") check the articles on G3 computers at xlr8yourmac.com. Also, there's a link from the FAQ there to the jumper settings for the Beige G3 motherboard clock and ratio settings. >I don't care for the Mac monitor that came with it--has anyone tried >hooking up a fixed-frequency SOG workstation monitor to it? I've got >a nice HP/Sony model that might be a candidate. Mac DB15 to VGA adapters are common and cheap (=<$4, I sell a multi-rez model for $4 shipped in USA). If the monitor will work with a VGA output, it should be possible to make it work on the built-in video of the Beige G3. However, the Beige G3 and earlier Macs rely on sense codes in the monitor cable to indicate what resolutions are supported. When an adapter is used the sense codes are provided by the adapter. Some adapters are fixed-resolution coded so it's tough to get anything but the adapter's fixed resolution out of the Mac if you use a fixed resolution adapter. Other adapters are "universal" and have DIP switches to support many resolutions, and one of the resolution code choices is "21" multi-resolution". Jeff Walther

19 years, 5 months

microprocessors in my vax 3800

by vax9000＠gmail.com

Today I pulled out the boards in my vax 3800 and I found 7 microprocessors besides the CVAX. They are, 2x 68000, 8096, 80186, 2x 8086, Z80. Just a little discovery to share with you. vax, 9000

19 years, 5 months

My second Mac

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:57:06 -0800 (PST) >From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> >> I picked up another Mac yesterday--a beige 300 Mhz G3 with 256MB, >> On a side-by-side with a Win2K P1 225MHz system with the same amount >> of memory, I think the WIndoze box has snappier response and has >> better video. > >The beige G3 has only a Rage II+ card by default. The later Revision 2 and >3 use Rage Pro. Thus, I think the video issue you're noticing is probably >the accelerator. The original 300 is almost certainly Revision 1. The video chip can be visually examined, although the "Wings" card (AV card) may be in the way. It will have Rage II or Rage Pro (or Rage Turbo?) printed on it. You may also be able to get this information from Apple system Profiler in the Apple menu. If the ROM DIMM has not been switched out, you can determine your revision by looking at the ROM revision in the first page of Apple System Profiler. Under "Production Information" look at "ROM Revision". If it is $77D.40F2 then you have a Revision A ROM. If this ROM shipped with this motherboard then you also have a revision 1 motherboard. However, the ROM DIMM is pretty easy to switch so there's no guarantee that the machine contains the ROM it originally shipped with and all of the ROM revisions work with all of the motherboard revisions. If the ROM revision is $77D.45F1 it is a revision B. If it is $77D.45F2 it is a revision C and absent ROM swapping the machine probably has a RAGE Pro video chip. If you have a Rev. A ROM, then the built-in IDE channels in the machine will only support 1 device per channel. You need Rev. B or C ROM for two device support per channel. You can also determine your ROM revision by looking at the Apple part number on the two ROM chips on the ROM DIMM. However, I don't remember the numbers. It's something like 341S0409 and 0408 is Rev. A, 341S0494 adn 0495 is Rev. C and I've never seen a Rev. B with the part numbers on it so I can't say, but I imagine it's 341S04xx with xx up close to 90. No matter which motherboard you have, switching to a B or C ROM will enable two device support on the IDE channels. >You might as well get a Rage Orion and I think you'll find the performance >much better. The Rage Orion is a 16MB Rage 128 PCI card, and I know from >personal experience that it is Mac-compatible and has good performance. >They're pretty cheap on the used market. Rage Orion was ATI's name for one of the Macintosh versions of the Rage 128. PC versions of the Rage 128 won't work. (I am not contradicting Cameron, just restating his information a bit.) It may be possible to do a conversion from PC version to Mac version, but I don't think anyone has ever reported a successful modification. The Radeon 7000 works well in the Beige and the Sapphire version of the PCI card with DDR memory is easily converted to Macintosh use. It is also just $30 at Newegg. Simply remove the eight pin SOIC serial flash chip and replace it with a blank ST Micro M25P10. It should then either flash with the current Mac firmware updater from ATI or it may require the R7000-ROM-208 version. It's been a while. I know the latter will work. I'm not sure about the former. Whichever way, update to the latest firmware afterwards, because there are some Sleep issues with earlier versions. 3D driver support is only official after OS 9.2 but if you install the Open GL 1.22 or 1.24 extensions by hand into OS 9.1 it works fine. Jeff Walther

19 years, 5 months

My Second Mac

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> On Sun, 7 Jan 2007, Scott Quinn wrote: > > My guess has to do with processors: i80486 binaries can run just fine > > on Pentium+ systems. > > so can 8088 binaries. (With occasional exceptions that don't typically > show up in common usage (such as PUSH SP)) > But not all Pentium+ binaries will run on 8088, or even i80486. > > > There seemed to have been a cultural difference between Motorola and > intel. > > Motorola would design each major generation from scratch, thus > producing a > much better processor, but without legacy software. > > intel, OTOH, would bend over backwards to try to maintain 4004 > compatibility. We're talking about two slightly different things here, though- 68000 (while it did not have provisions for easily running 6800 code) had a common-mode so that programs built on the 68040 could run on the 68000, but you can also have code that requires instructions (or other things) added on later 68000-series processors, similar to Intel (variable 286-style segments, the copy-on-write provision of the 80486, etc.). The transition between 68000 and PPC was more like the Intel gap between the x86 and the 960 - they are completely different processors with no common heritage (the common heritage piece was provided by Apple in firmware). I haven't worked with them, but AFAIK the new embedded versions of the 68000 (ColdFire?) maintain the tradition of working with earlier 68ks (except in a few cases).

19 years, 5 months

My Second Mac

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> Chuck wrote > On 6 Jan 2007 at 19:41, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >> >> So I don't see what's so restrictive about the Mac requirements at >> all, >> frankly. > > You're right, it's a matter of small degree. Mac OS 8 = 1997; > Windows 95 = 1995. Intel 80486 = 1989; PPC 601 = 1992. It's pretty > much a moot point anyway--everyone's going to be x86 by-and-by. > > Cheers, > Chuck > My guess has to do with processors: i80486 binaries can run just fine on Pentium+ systems. The software probably can work just fine at 68040 speeds, but then when run on PowerPC systems you have the emulation overhead which drops speeds to around a IIci (25MHz 68030, think Sun-3) on a 8100/80 (80MHz PPC601) Some companies didn't want the bother of maintaining two versions (68k and PPC, especially after the PPC machines had been out a year or two), so they would compile PPC only- hence the higher system requirements.

19 years, 5 months

Stunning recreation work: Danger Will Robinson!

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote: **>> snip <<** > > Back in late 1998, my buddy Sheldon Leemon (author > of "Mapping the C-64") > won the grand prize in an online sweepstakes. The > prize was a full-size > promotional version of the robot from the remake o f > "Lost in Space". > It had been touring the USA and Japan. Doesn't lo ok > quite the same: > > http://www.robotoys.com/lis99.jpg > > 600 pounds, New Line Cinema valued it at $4,500. We > debated what we > might do with it, never coming to any good > conclusions. I was tempted > to store it in my barn. He never picked it up. I t > sat in a shipping > yard for months. I think it eventually started > running up charges and > was sent back in mid-1999. I wonder where it went ! > > - John > Urghh!!!! Why would you want that piece of trash?!!! Sorry, but I think it's the worst designed robot in the history of films! Robbie the robot (Forbidden Planet, 3 or 4 eps of Lost In Space 60's tv series, background in Gremlins 1 (or 2?) and even in a Columbo film >from the 70's!), Gort (Day The Earth Stood Still), Maximillion (The Black Hole) and more modern robot's such as Robocop, ED-209 and Caine (all from the Robocop films), plus the T-1000 (Terminator), are much better designed to be menacing and/or cool looking. When I saw the one from the Lost In Space film (from 90's) I just laughed. To be honest, going from the picture, it looks like a cross between the robot's from Short Circuit and Caine from Robocop 2. Regards, Andrew D. Burton aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 5 months

Stunning recreation work: Danger Will Robinson!

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- "Bryan K. Blackburn" <oldcomp at cox.net> wrote: > Recently we have seen recreations of several vinta ge > computers like the > Mark-8 Minicomputer, the Apple 1, the IMSAI 8080 a nd > most recently the > Altair 8800, but wait till you see this!!! > > eBay item # 230051400851 > > The effort that must have went into this project.. .! > Detailed > construction photos here: > > http://www.lostinspacerobot.com/newsletter.html > > I confess that I have always wanted one of these! :) > I have no > connection with the seller etc. & etc. > My dad has got 2 plastic models from Lost In Space. One had the giant holding a boulder above his head with John and Don below him and the other one was a 6" (or thereabouts) tall model of the Robinson robot. Not sure where they are now though. If he had the money I'm sure he would want the replica of the Robinson robot :) Regards, Andrew D. Burton aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 5 months

garbled display

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

and I should also point out some of the screen is reverse video, some is blinking. Anyone know what happened to John Allain? --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> wrote: > it only helps if youre going to swing by and unseat > the 80186 from its bizarre cage. I aint touching one > ever again. But thanks all the same Roger :) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 5 months

Stunning recreation work: Danger Will Robinson!

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote: > aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > Why would you want that piece of trash?!!! > > Sorry, but I think it's the worst designed robot > > in the history of films! > > Robbie the robot (Forbidden Planet, 3 or 4 eps > > of Lost In Space 60's tv series, background in > > Gremlins 1 (or 2?) and even in a Columbo film > > from the 70's!), Gort (Day The Earth Stood > > Still), Maximillion (The Black Hole) and more > > modern robot's such as Robocop, ED-209 and > > Caine (all from the Robocop films), plus the > > T-1000 (Terminator), are much better designed > > to be menacing and/or cool looking. > > Are you sure you're not talking about the T-800? > The T-1000 is the > liquid-metal jobbie. > > Peace... Sridhar > Ooops. Yeah, I meant the T-800 (Arnold Schwarzenegger). Whilst double-checking the T-number, I came across this huge list of goof's (page is around 200KB's): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103064/goofs Regards, Andrew D. Burton aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 5 months

Intergraph / Clipper / HLH Orion

by ken＠seefried.com

I recall Opus made a AT bus plugin card with a Clipper. Think it ran Clix.

19 years, 5 months

TRS-80 stuff available in Stockton CA for pickup

by yakowenk＠yahoo.com

Hey, all, I've got mail from some guy with a bit of TRS-80 stuff available for pickup: 3 TRS-80 computers, a TRS-80 5 Meg Disk System, manuals, flopppies, etc. If you can rescue it, let me know. I'll forward replies to him. He's in Stockton CA, and I've told him we can probably arrange a pick-up and save him the hassle of shipping. BTW, I've been slacking on this for about two weeks now, so I'll have to double-check that the items are still available. But I wanted to send this to the list now, rather than checking with him first and running the risk of falling into procrastination-land again... Cheers, Bill. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 5 months

Use of HCL to dissolve severe corrosion from NiCad or Alkaline Batteries or oxidation

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

can you buy it in powder form? You mean you all apply hcl to a circuit board??? Aint there a less caustic substance for the job? --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote: > Chuck Guzis wrote: > > On 7 Jan 2007 at 10:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > > >> 1. I've only been able to buy gallon sized containers of the 30% HCL (Muriatic > >> Acid). That is very unwieldily to handle. A polyethelene containter with a > >> small "spout" (available at drugstores) is an easy solution. Just be careful > >> when transferring the acid from the gallon container to the poly container - > >> use a poly funnel - HCL is "nasty" stuff. > > > > Another caution--DO NOT STORE THE CONTAINER IN YOUR WORKSHOP OR > > WHEREVER YOU KEEP YOUR EQUIPMENT! Muriatic acid is hydrogen chloride > > gas dissolved in water and tends to "fume". Which means that if the > > cap on the container is slightly loose or the container is cracked, > > you'll be in for an eventual surprise. > > > > I kept a gallon of muriatic stored in my workshop and thought the cap > > was screwed on tightly (it wasn't). After about 2 weeks, I noted > > that all of my cast-iron shop equpment was coated with a fine > > dappling of rust. My HCl is now stored in a weatherproof container > > out-of-doors. I can't imagine what such fumes might do to the > > innards of a disk drive. > > > > For a somewhat tamer substitute, one might try sulfamic acid--a > > powder dissolved in water and normally used for cleaning masonry (as > > is muriatic acid). You can often find it at stores that deal in > > ceramic tile supplies. > > You can store hydrochloric acid dilute without worrying about it fuming. > > Peace... Sridhar __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 5 months

My second Mac

by cclist＠sydex.com

I picked up another Mac yesterday--a beige 300 Mhz G3 with 256MB, and a 15 GB hard disk. It's also got a USB adapter plugged into one of the PCI slots. It's running OS 9.something. Set me back $20. Were Zip drives a standard part of these things? On a side-by-side with a Win2K P1 225MHz system with the same amount of memory, I think the WIndoze box has snappier response and has better video. For you Mac addicts, what do you think should be my next step in getting the most out of this box? I don't care for the Mac monitor that came with it--has anyone tried hooking up a fixed-frequency SOG workstation monitor to it? I've got a nice HP/Sony model that might be a candidate. Cheers, Chuck

19 years, 5 months

garbled display

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

it only helps if youre going to swing by and unseat the 80186 from its bizarre cage. I aint touching one ever again. But thanks all the same Roger :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 5 months

laptops and 5.25 inch floppy drives?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

no actually. I should have specified no older then a 486. For creating/dumping images and whatnot. Some early lt floppies were just slender versions of dt units __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 5 months

garbled display

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

actually rows and columns of blocks of ascii chars, some blinking. To which Im greeted upon switching on a Tandy 2000. Typically what does this indicate? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 5 months

laptops and 5.25 inch floppy drives?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

not seemingly likely w/the current crop of usb units, but would it be possible to get a 5.25 to work in say an older lt w/an integral 3.5? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 5 months

Use of HCL to dissolve severe corrosion from NiCad or Alkaline Batteries or oxidation

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

In response to an offlist question, here's a bit more info on HCL use: 1. I've only been able to buy gallon sized containers of the 30% HCL (Muriatic Acid). That is very unwieldily to handle. A polyethelene containter with a small "spout" (available at drugstores) is an easy solution. Just be careful when transferring the acid from the gallon container to the poly container - use a poly funnel - HCL is "nasty" stuff. 2. Use as little acid as possible on a board/module/motherboard. Before applying the acid I look over the board - and discover the corroded/oxidized components and apply the acid directly to the components. The acid will flow to other, non-oxidized components, but it won't hurt them. A toothbrush can be used to scrub stubborn corrosion - but I've found it is rarely needed. 3. After applying the acid, rinse it off as soon as the "fizzling" stops. Use plenty of cold water to eliminate all traces of the acid. Then use a final rinse of distilled water. 4. I avoid putting acid on adjustable, semi-sealed components, such as potentiometers, variable capacitors, enclosed switches, etc. If they are badly corroded - replace them. 5. I use a hair dryer set at medium-heat/high-speed to dry the board and under chips, etc. Drying will also eliminate any traces of residual acid that may have been left behind. (HCL turns to a gas when it "drys out"). Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

19 years, 5 months

From another list: 4D-series (POWER & Professional) SGI gear

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Can't remember if I sent this- found it on a different list and I can forward mail > EDIT Jan,7: No one's interested into old stuff anymore? If no one > claims them they will go in the trash real soon! It'd be a shame... If > you're not interested in taking them all there's loads of perfectly > working boards, IP7s, IO4s with plenty of SCSI, GTX graphic set, power > supplies, backplanes, skins, etc, etc. Anyway let me know. > > > Hi all, > > I have a few older Silicon Graphics systems up for grabs if anyone is > interested. There's three 4D Predator racks, a deskside 4D/70GT and a > Challenge XL. All the machines are complete except for the Challenge > which is missing the CPU and memory boards. Except for that everything > is there. They also come with a few boxes of parts, cables, keyboards > and such. A 17" SGI monitor is also part of the lot. > > Pictures here: > http://web.newsguy.com/AlexPhotos/sgi.html > > Everything is free if you take them as is. If you only want boards or > other parts, I'll charge a small fee for the packaging material and > for my time. > The machines are located in Montreal, Canada. Looks like the Challenge might not have processor boards, but the other systems seem to. The 4D/70 is a Twin Tower

19 years, 5 months

My second Mac

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

the stark reality is Im not all that confident using the term dongle. I think they may have been called that, but Im not sure :(. Some had dials by the way. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 5 months

2.5GB bigfoot drives on dovebid

by legalize＠xmission.com

Wasn't there some discussion recently looking for < 10 GB drives? There's a bunch of 2.5GB drives on dovebid right now... -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 5 months

not quite on topic but, classic analogue satellite tv decoding boxes

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hold on!!! I have a use for FM analogue Sat RX's.. We use them for amateur television (a branch of Amateur Radio) I'll take any you have and if they have manual tuning so much the better!! Rod Smallwood Email rodsmallwood at btconnect.com -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson Sent: 06 January 2007 00:01 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: not quite on topic but, classic analogue satellite tv decoding boxes Witchy wrote: > Hello folks, > > I've got a pair of old UK SKY TV boxen (1997 era) that are pretty > useless as analogue SKY TV was switched off in 2001; can the hardware > be used for anything else or is it pretty much paperweight material? Paperweight, I would have thought - I've never heard of them being able to do anything 'clever' (unlike, say, some of Acorn's set top boxes which do resemble a computer closely enough to fire up a web browser on, talk to a few very specific hardware add-ons etc.). I doubt there's even many useful components that can be salvaged as it'll likely all be surface mount stuff and big shiny screened silver boxes inside. cheers Jules

19 years, 5 months

Sun plastics

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

try something less potent. Testors, 2 part epoxy, gorilla glue, Goop... --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <compoobah at valleyimplants.com> wrote: > Has anyone had success fixing the plastic "alloy" that Sun uses in > their cases? > > MEK and cyanoacrylate turn it into a mushy grainy mess. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 5 months

Free stuff near Seattle WA

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

More may come up, but here's the list for now 1x DEC DSSI tri-link connector 12-39921-02 Used to connect DSSI busses to beasties like HSD controllers. 1x either a Sun SPARCstation 5/110 256MB or a Tatung COMPstation 20 (SPARCstation 20 clone) 1x SM40, 128MB RAM.

19 years, 5 months

Upcoming Scrounge, Southern Cal.

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

This is being posted to: TekScopes, HP, TestGear, and CCTech lists. Fellow techies, I'm going to have a day or so of opportunity to do some serious scrounging in the southern California region, specifically around Anaheim and vicinity, coming up in May of this year. Being that I haven't been near the area since 1993, I could really use some pointers on who's who in the electronic surplus arena that would be worth a look. My primary interests are in test gear (usually RF and telecommunications, but I keep an open mind), specialized hand tools for connector crimping (both mil-spec and commercial), and "legacy" telephone equipment from the Bell System/Western Electric heyday. So... Let the suggestions fly! ;-) Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"

19 years, 5 months

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