test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I have around ten 8-inch dual floppy drive units which need a new home. An advert is on http://www.vintagecomputermarketplace.com/ under the name "frotz661", the same name I use on Ebay. Pictures will be added over the weekend. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

19 years, 3 months

by legalize＠xmission.com

This is a good price on these dvds: <http://digitaleyes.resultspage.com/search?p=Q&ts=custom&w=modern+marvels+co…> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 3 months

CDC disks (was Re: FW: Re: old rare diskdrives?)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> If this jogs someone's mind, please speak up. If not, I may have a drive in > unknown state (_I_ have never powered it up) available sometime this year. ok. just got several Prime disc packs that I need to try reading. > I used to repair CDC 9762s and 9766s about 20 years ago, but don't > really miss them all that much. never liked working on washing machine drives much either. too many scary high speed rotating/moving parts

19 years, 3 months

Google on hard drive failures

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Hextar wrote: > Indeed...and I was criticized for posting a OT > thread on this list before and here comes a OT > thread that is openly discussed...what gives??? Why was > I flamed while this guy is not? I just don't get it...:( If you post a thread that is immediately perceived by everybody as another chapter of Mac.vs PC flame-bait, and you get flamed, are you surprised? I'm not innocent myself, but most who post flame-bait have enough experience to know that they're posting flame-bait. Speaking as "this guy", I feel that data preservation (cross-platform) for long periods of time is an interest shared by many/most on this list, as is storage (especially storage media and hardware) longevity. I mean, keeping 40-year-old or older peripherals up and going is a fine goal. But when it's done to move the data to more modern media, especially when it's of interest to classiccmp members, that's even better. In fact I strongly believe that storage and peripherals are far more interesting than CPU's. I am strongly influenced by the fact that my day job is working with a $10billion peripheral. There are a few co-believers with me but we're not all that vocal or large in numbers. It is true that most of the industry papers are very little concerned with history back more than 5 years, and I found it useful to read what others on this list wrote on the subject. Tim.

19 years, 3 months

CDC disks (was Re: FW: Re: old rare diskdrives?)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 2/23/07, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote: > --al (who is trying to find a working CDC 9766 right now) Hmm... I think I have a 9766 stored with my PDP-11/70s. I picked it up for a list member (whose name I've lost track of) to swap for some PDP-8/i memory, but the pickup never took place. If this jogs someone's mind, please speak up. If not, I may have a drive in unknown state (_I_ have never powered it up) available sometime this year. I used to repair CDC 9762s and 9766s about 20 years ago, but don't really miss them all that much. ;-) -ethan

19 years, 3 months

DEC VR01-A Display Unit (AKA Tek RM503 oscilloscope)

by chd_1＠nktelco.net

I just got ahold of a Tek RM503 oscilloscope. According to some documents I have found DEC sold this as the VR01-A. This one is probably not from DEC. First, does anyone know if there were any modifications made to use it as a point plot scope? It looks like there was just a cable that connected to the Z-axis/crt grid input on the back. Second, this scope has differential amplifiers for both horizontal and vertical inputs. I can't get the amplifiers to balance and so for any setting more sensitive than .1v/cm I can't get the trace on the screen. This shouldn't be a problem for how I want to use the scope, but I would like to have it fully functional and calibrated. Digging around inside, I see that the bias voltages for the cathode followers are not the same and this throws the whole differential amp out of balance. It can be compensated for at low gains by using the POSITION knob. If there are any valve or Tek scope experts out there, they can contact me offline so I can ask some naive questions about tubes. -chuck

19 years, 3 months

Ethical dilemma, anyone want a copy of Spring MSDOS 5

by innfoclassics＠gmail.com

This is, I hope, on topic as the subject is over 10 years old. I stopped by one of my favorite surplus thrift stores that sells old software and exclaimed in delight at seeing several new copies of the Spring edition of MSDOS 5. Now this edition is a counterfeit produced by a corporate executive of Everex I believe. The first person to go to jail for software piracy. I remember seeing this boxed set up and down the west coast in 1992 or so. It is MSDOS 5 on 5 1/2 inch disks with a manual and NO holofoil. it was easy to identify. However once I mentioned "counterfeit" I was "persona non grata." The manager grabbed the copies off the shelf and started to investigate using Google. He didn't get anywhere and so called Microsoft. They didn't have anyone there that remembered MSDOS 5, much less anything about counterfeit copys. He got referred to a website with no info and sat there looking at them. I suggested that no one is ever going to use MSDOS 5 again and just pretend He never heard me say anything. I apologised for upsetting his day and wasting at least an hour of this time. Given the lack of interest by Microsoft he put them back on the shelf. So I wondered if anyone on this list collects SW like this and would like a copy. There are several sealed editions (I think he opened one) that they are asking $5 for (too much in my opinion but it will go down if they do not sell - and who is going to buy MSDOS 5). Anyway that is the ethical dilemma... should they be sold as collectibles for any reason? I know I wouldn't dare to put it on Ebay I did buy a copy of IBM DOS 6.3, new unopened for $2. I think there is a collectible copy of the Microsoft MSDOS 6.0 upgrade, sealed. If anyone is looking for IBM or Apple SW of the vintage 1990 -1999 (I know OT) I can check. I got an original unopened box of Asymetrix Toolbox V3 for $1, also a Scelbi 6800 Software Gourmet Guide and Cook Book for $1. They also had a boxful of HP factory boxed HPUX 10 CDS that looks like it might be a complete set (maybe some doubles). They wanted $15 and I again upset them by offering $5. "This is a thrift sore and I set the prices" the manager said. I didn't buy it as I just got the free HPUX 11 set and haven't even had a chance to look at it. I do have an old 735 workstation that I was wondering if HPUX 10 would be better for. Should I get these? Another thing they have I am thinking about it a Apple Newton eMate 300 with case. They are asking $45. Is this reasonable? If it doesn't sell they have sales and I have learned to wait for them. Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA

19 years, 3 months

Wanted: CBM-to-IEEE cable

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:15:57 -0500 From: Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> Subject: Wanted: CBM-to-IEEE cable Hi, I'm in need of a PET-style IEEE cable to connect an 8032 to its peripherals. Anyone have one they're willing to part with? This is the kind with the card edge connector on one end, and the more traditional centronics-style IEEE connector on the other. Thanks, De --------------------- Not mine, and not cheap, but if you're desperate enough: www.jppbm.com mike

19 years, 3 months

Google on hard drive failures

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Google has a very vast herd of machines with a large number of hard drives. Very fruitful that they analyze failures and publish the results to the web! While the drives they are studying are definitely not classic (all dating from 2001 or later), those of us who host large quantities of classic material may find the results of interest: http://labs.google.com/papers/disk_failures.pdf Side note: at one point I found it unbelievable that Google was using consumer-grade hardware to host their stuff. Since then, I've developed a lot of respect for this approach! Tim.

19 years, 3 months

Google on hard drive failures

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 01:42 AM 2/23/2007, Hex Star wrote: >Indeed...and I was criticized for posting a OT thread on this list before >and here comes a OT thread that is openly discussed...what gives??? Why was >I flamed while this guy is not? I just don't get it...:( Tim's a well-respected guru so he gets more slack than a newcomer behind an alias. :-) To play devil's advocate, it is more relevant than many OT posts. Longevity of disk drives is a significant concern to computer collectors, no? The study is about contemporary drives that may have very different parameters than old drives, though. But it's always interesting to see rules of thumb and "common wisdom" pushed aside by data and analysis. - John

19 years, 3 months

New DEC museum entry :D

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Just for illustration; our electricity supply here in England comes up >from the Fawley power station near Southamption at 132kV on pylons. It goes to a substation at Thatcham about two miles distant. Its stepped down to 11kV and distributed over a radius of up to five miles on wooden poles with a metal T bar on top. In some areas its three phase and others not. Now comes the aforementioned transformer. Its normally mounted on one of the 11kV poles. It steps down to 235v and feeds a fair number of houses. Our supplies are fused at 60A or 100A at each house. Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: 22 February 2007 21:15 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: New DEC museum entry :D > > Tony Duell wrote: > > (there are no 'pole pigs' over here) > > Is that always true? Sometimes on rural roads with just one or two > houses (and also individually on farms) I've seen pole-mounted > transformers and wondered what their function is - I'd assumed they > were step-down transformers from overhead line voltage (several KV I'd > guess) to 240VAC. Or do they do some completely different job? I think you're absoluately right. But they normally supply more than just one house, don't they? OK, I was a little too definite in my original statement. I should have said 'Pole pigs are rarely used in the UK, in towns/cities (at least), many houses are supplied from the same transformer'. -tony

19 years, 3 months

OT: GFCIs (was New DEC museum entry :D)

by dm561＠torfree.net

From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: New DEC museum entry :D <snip> >And a question for the US experts. On a 120v circuit, will a $6.00 >GFI detect a leak between neutral and ground? Or is the detection >circuitry only on the high side of the line? As mentioned by several others, GF(C)Is detect an imbalance between hot and neutral and do not in fact care about ground at all. Since the neutral is normally bonded to ground at the main panel, it would require considerable current in the neutral to generate a detectable voltage difference between neutral and ground at the receptacle; in the unlikely event that the neutral is not at ground potential a GFCI would still trip on a fault. In fact, if you have to replace one of the unobtainium 2-prong ungrounded receptacles in an old house wired with knob & tube (or the '50s era 2-wire NM non-metallic sheathed), replacing it with a GFCI receptacle will give protection similar to a grounded outlet (although of course running a ground wire back to the panel is preferable, since an internal short or leakage will not be detected until there is an external path to ground, and noise suppression filters will be ineffective). The "bedroom GFCI"s that Ethan mentioned are actually Arc-fault interrrupters, required by most jurisdictions for the last 4 or 5 years in bedroom circuits because neither a circuit breaker nor a GFCI will trip on an arcing short or connection (the cause of many if not most residential electrical fires) if the current is less than the breaker rating. mike

19 years, 3 months

ebay heads up: Wang VS 5450 in Highlands Ranch, CO

by legalize＠xmission.com

Don't see many Wang minis going around. No pictures, but the description lists it as containing a reasonable set of cards. I would contact the seller directly before bidding. Item # 160088328422 -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 3 months

New DEC museum entry :D

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

On 22 Feb, 2007, at 18:03, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:22:15 -0600 > From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> > Subject: Re: New DEC museum entry :D > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <45DDA717.80406 at yahoo.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > > Tony Duell wrote: >> (there are no 'pole pigs' over here) > > Is that always true? Sometimes on rural roads with just one or two > houses (and > also individually on farms) I've seen pole-mounted transformers and > wondered > what their function is - I'd assumed they were step-down > transformers from > overhead line voltage (several KV I'd guess) to 240VAC. Or do they > do some > completely different job? > I live on a farm, we have a three phase step down transformer on a pole in our field. It steps down from 11,000 volts to 240/440 volts. I guess the 11,000v is across phases as there is no neutral conductor. We used to have a two wire supply to the pole with a 240-0-240 transformer. Then the incoming cloth covered wiring from the pole caught fire. Couldn't do much - it was before it reached any of our fuse boxes or even the meters, even pulling out the 'company' fuses would not have isolated it. We put it out but ran out of powder extinguishers. The fire brigade took over half an hour to arrive (it was in January and it was snowing). They went into the house with breathing apparatus and just saved the house. Everything was covered in congealed PVC, some decorative candles had completely melted and they said another couple of minutes and we would have lost the house. They sat on the stairs for four hours, putting out each new fire in the distribution board until the electricity company turned up and pulled the 1000 Amp fuses on the pole above the barbed wire. The fire brigade were about to leave when my mother pointed out some smoke coming from the wall. The upper storey is timber framed and the woodwork behind the distribution board was alight. They ripped off the Kent peg tiles and we finished the day with a big hole in both inner and outside surfaces of the wall. Next day the electricity company turned up to read the meters, I said hold your hand out, and I dropped a few loose brass wheels which had had numbers painted on them into his hand and pointed out that was all that was left of the meters. The best guess we could get from anyone was that it was a mis-matched load over the two 'phases' (actually 180 degrees apart), and that the neutral wire could not cope. Later on we got the company apparatus moved into a redundant chimney where it could catch light without doing much damage and I paid 400 pounds to have an extra wire put on the overhead supply to the pole and the transformer upgraded to a three phase unit, so I could power my lathe, mill, shaper, surface grinder, pillar drill and my mainframe computer from the mains instead of using a generator. Roger Holmes.

19 years, 3 months

SCADA (was Re: Help to identify a computer?)

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > process-control equipment. I helped get me through college by > > working as an instrumentation technician summers. Really primitive > > I think the main problem is that it's difficult to recreate enough of the > 'process' at home to be able to use this equipment, so it would be a > static collection. Of course some meaursing instruments can be used for > other purposes, but then people do collect measuring instruments. That's true for stuff that is built or irreversibly programmed for a particular application, but there were modular systems as well, which could be used for quite a lot of things. The 'process' can often also be scaled for a demonstration model - University has a nice display of a PLC running a model 'production line' built from Fischertechnik: http://www.rt.eei.uni-erlangen.de/FGdes/index_en.html As I happened across process control stuff, some of it inevitably found its way into my collection, namely: -some Simatic N boards (eurocard form factor, DIN connectors) which fit into a small rack and realize simple logic functions like gates and flip-flops (several per card) up to counters and comperators. The person I got them from originally intended to implement some security functions for his model railway with them, reducing the possibility of accidental crashes, but now controls everything by computer. -Simatic C1 trainer set consisting of a piece of DIN top-hat rail mounted on a wooden base and stuffed with "blocks" (functions like the boards; sized like circuit breakers, connectors on the front) together with a 24V supply and a switches/indicators panel, complete with a bunch of wires for setting up the connections. I had that wired up as a 4-bit binary counter when they wanted a prop with lights blinking in a clever fashion for our A-level party. -Simatic S4, microprocessor based PLC (8086 I think?). It is programmed (either with a hand-held LCD device or with a luggable CP/M machine plus the appropriate software and interface)...by designing a Ladder Diagram or "Kontaktplan", a schematic of how you would implement the function you want with relays. The program is then stored in an EEPROM cartridge. I/O is also 24V DC, 230V AC modules were available. I tested it but don't know what to do with it yet; I thought about building a lights and switches panel and implementing a tic-tac-toe engine as a demonstration program. -Sinumerik mate TG, a controller for CNC lathes. This is unfortunately incomplete, since I only have the electronics cabinet, but not the proprietary display unit which also incorporates the character and (I suppose) vector generator circuitry - It was originally there, but was junked before I realized I wanted the thing. I can only hope I'll ever find one again...used replacements are EUR 3000,- upwards. Not much analog stuff here yet, unfortunately - apart frome some chart recorders by HP and Kipp & Zonen (Netherlands). The one HP is a two-channel recorder with fine hoses for ink distribution to the pens and rubber balls for priming - What do the cartridges look for those like? Can you still get them? (It came without.) The other HP is an analog x/y and x/t plotter with plugin slots for pre-amplifier and filter modules. Don't have anything pneumatic or fluidic yet, althought I consider these technologies very interesting. BTW: If somebody has analog control and/or CNC/PLC stuff floating around and wants it gone or swapped, we might try to work something out; I'm located in Germany and will be present at the VCFe 8.0, 28./29.04. in Munich. Greetings, -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de "Feel free" - 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat ... Jetzt GMX TopMail testen: www.gmx.net/de/go/mailfooter/topmail-out

19 years, 3 months

Minor ImageDisk update

by dave06a＠dunfield.com

I've just posted ImageDisk 1.14 to the web site. This is a minor update adding automatic processing of IMD.CMD if it exists in the ImageDisk home directory at startup (lets you customize IMD to your own preferences), and the ability to easily run command files from the IMD home directory. Please let me know if you encounter any problems. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

19 years, 3 months

database of PC software release dates?

by legalize＠xmission.com

Is there a database somewhere that attempts to catalog the introduction date of software for the IBM PC and compatibles? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 3 months

DEC Rainbow PC100 available

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi I would have gladly taken it 'tware it not for the fact I'm in the UK. I worked for DEC when Rainbows were current. I had one mounted in the leg of a special desk made to take them. It would have complemented my '91 Vax 4000 nicely. Its a pity air freight has not gone the way of passenger air fares. Oh well! one may turn up in the UK. Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob Rosenbloom Sent: 21 February 2007 20:51 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: DEC Rainbow PC100 available Not my cup of tea but someone on this list may be interested. Please contact Gary directly. Bob ______________________________________________________________________ Bob, Our stuff isn't really what I would call "vintage". It's a 1985 rainbow pc100. about the only cool thing is that is is all complete including documentation and mint condition. my wife worked for DEC at the time and purchased it as a "state of the art" system...... if you know of anyone collecting these I can e-mail the original billing statement which lists the whole system. Gary Mathews garym at quickbeam.com

19 years, 3 months

HP 2005A computer system??

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I was emailing back & forth with a person who collects HP mini's and they mentioned.... > Eventually, I'd like to put together a dual-processor realtime system > similar to the Continental 2005A RTE configuration, I responded... > I've never even seen any reference > to it. I'm extremely curious as to just what it is. Can you enlighten > me at all about it? He said... Continental Airlines contracted HP to build a real-time system around 1970, and HP put together a dual-CPU system similar to a 2000A, with a 2116 and a 2114. HP advertised the hardware configuration itself (not just the software) as the 2005A Real Time Executive. The Contential configuration is dual-CPU, but the default 2005A configuration in the HP catalog has only a 2116 and about half the peripherals of the Continental configuration. ------------------------- I have never heard of this Continental 2005A dual processor Real Time Executive, especially as an official product. Does anyone have more information? Jay

19 years, 3 months

Is this true?? (TI & watches)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Is this true?? (TI & watches) > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:48:19 -0800 (PST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> > Before there were quartz crystal oscillators in watches, Bulova developed >> > and sold watches with 360Hz tuning fork oscillators. Otherwise know as Accutron Watches. Very fine and accurate. >On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> ...and before that, there were electric watches that used a >> conventional balance wheel as the timing reference. Before that (mt Cessna still has one) there were clocks that used A solenoid and contact to wind a mainspring for the usual wound clock style balance wheel and escapement. >.. . . but we still consider the digital watch to be a pretty neat idea Indeed. Allison

19 years, 4 months

Cipher F880 Manual (copy) Available

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I need a copy of thismanual - where can I go to see it? I have a copy scanned, I'll see about getting it on line under http://bitsavers.org/pdf/cipher

19 years, 4 months

Boot Disk/Software Archives

by marvin＠rain.org

Has anyone started to rebuild the boot disk/software archives similar to what Don Maslin was doing? I see bits and pieces spread around the web but nothing all inclusive such as what Don had. It would be great to see it all in one place and mirrored in the same way as bitsavers. I did find a list of the disks that Don had online (I think at Gaby). To the best of my knowledge, that was the only online compilation of what was contained in his collection.

19 years, 4 months

Fwd: 8" floppy technical data

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I will forward your message to the Classic Computer Collector mailing list. Perhaps someone there can help. - John >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 12:35:08 -0300 (ART) >From: dario de rito <deritod at yahoo.com.ar> >Subject: 8" floppy technical data >To: jfoust at threedee.com > >hi. >I'm working with a disquette drive formatter model >6700 (DRE )disquette 8" simple side, 77 tracks 26 >sector,256kbyte. >I design an interface for recovery the data recorded >in the disquette. >I have the digital information of each sector record >in my PC,but i dont understand the data, because i >dont know the code or standard used in 1970/78 for >record data, i dont know if the data block have a >particular format >The disquette have a program in atol language. >The disquette is compatible with IBM3740. >Do you have information about it?, the standard use in >1970/78, any format? >Thanks >Dario De Rito

19 years, 4 months

Is this true?? (TI & watches)

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

On 21 Feb, 2007, at 18:01, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > Does anyone remember that the oldest of said wall clocks required the > owner to start the motor manually by spinning a little knurled shaft > located on the back? I don't think I'd call it a wall clock, but I have a clock like that in the computer room. It is octagonal and painted pink, so not my favourite, but I used to use it to keep an eye on the time so I could top up the diesel in the 3 Phase generator which used to run the mainframe. I also have a clockwork car clock which gets wound by the movement of the car. That's way off topic though. I wonder which was the first computer with a real time clock, what year and how it was implemented. I imagine it was invented primarily for charging for computer time. I think the first machine I programmed, the IBM 7094 had one because if your job ran over its limit time (30 seconds IIRC), the job was aborted. Unless that was the operator looking at his wrist watch! Roger Holmes

19 years, 4 months

Google on hard drive failures

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Guy wrote: > There's an even *more* interesting paper on > this from a CMU post-doc (math warning...lots > of statistics) that seems to blow away many (if not > all) assumptions about drive failures/quality/raid/etc. I looked through FAST05 and found a few CMU papers but nothing that looked like that. If/when you find the link I'm very interested. My anecdotal experience is based entirely on a hatred of unnecessary technology especially RAID controller failures (there must be a curse: the controller barfs or loses its config more often than drives fail!) Interesting side point: in several case I've been able to find files (tape images that I made a decade or two ago) that I had misplaced (not a drive crash but simply losing them in the shuffle) by Googling for them and finding a copy of my tape image, in a directory name that I had made up twenty years ago, elsewhere on the web! I was astounded! Tim.

19 years, 4 months

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test-drb