I have around ten 8-inch dual floppy drive units which need a new home.
An advert is on http://www.vintagecomputermarketplace.com/ under the name
"frotz661", the same name I use on Ebay. Pictures will be added over the
weekend.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
> If this jogs someone's mind, please speak up. If not, I may have a drive in
> unknown state (_I_ have never powered it up) available sometime this year.
ok. just got several Prime disc packs that I need to try reading.
> I used to repair CDC 9762s and 9766s about 20 years ago, but don't
> really miss them all that much.
never liked working on washing machine drives much either. too many scary
high speed rotating/moving parts
Hextar wrote:
> Indeed...and I was criticized for posting a OT
> thread on this list before and here comes a OT
> thread that is openly discussed...what gives??? Why was
> I flamed while this guy is not? I just don't get it...:(
If you post a thread that is immediately perceived
by everybody as another chapter of Mac.vs PC
flame-bait, and you get flamed, are you surprised?
I'm not innocent myself, but most who post flame-bait
have enough experience to know that they're posting
flame-bait.
Speaking as "this guy", I feel that data preservation
(cross-platform) for long periods of time is an interest
shared by many/most on this list, as is storage
(especially storage media and hardware) longevity.
I mean, keeping 40-year-old or older peripherals
up and going is a fine goal. But when it's done to
move the data to more modern media, especially
when it's of interest to classiccmp members, that's
even better.
In fact I strongly believe that storage and
peripherals are far more interesting than CPU's.
I am strongly influenced by the fact that my day
job is working with a $10billion peripheral.
There are a few co-believers with me but
we're not all that vocal or large in numbers.
It is true that most of the industry papers are
very little concerned with history back more than
5 years, and I found it useful to read what
others on this list wrote on the subject.
Tim.
On 2/23/07, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
> --al (who is trying to find a working CDC 9766 right now)
Hmm... I think I have a 9766 stored with my PDP-11/70s. I picked it
up for a list member (whose name I've lost track of) to swap for some
PDP-8/i memory, but the pickup never took place. If this jogs
someone's mind, please speak up. If not, I may have a drive in
unknown state (_I_ have never powered it up) available sometime this
year.
I used to repair CDC 9762s and 9766s about 20 years ago, but don't
really miss them all that much. ;-)
-ethan
I just got ahold of a Tek RM503 oscilloscope. According to some
documents I have found DEC sold this as the VR01-A. This one is probably
not from DEC. First, does anyone know if there were any modifications
made to use it as a point plot scope? It looks like there was just a
cable that connected to the Z-axis/crt grid input on the back.
Second, this scope has differential amplifiers for both horizontal and
vertical inputs. I can't get the amplifiers to balance and so for any
setting more sensitive than .1v/cm I can't get the trace on the screen.
This shouldn't be a problem for how I want to use the scope, but I would
like to have it fully functional and calibrated.
Digging around inside, I see that the bias voltages for the cathode
followers are not the same and this throws the whole differential amp
out of balance. It can be compensated for at low gains by using the
POSITION knob. If there are any valve or Tek scope experts out there,
they can contact me offline so I can ask some naive questions about tubes.
-chuck
This is, I hope, on topic as the subject is over 10 years old. I
stopped by one of my favorite surplus thrift stores that sells old
software and exclaimed in delight at seeing several new copies of the
Spring edition of MSDOS 5.
Now this edition is a counterfeit produced by a corporate executive of
Everex I believe. The first person to go to jail for software piracy.
I remember seeing this boxed set up and down the west coast in 1992 or
so. It is MSDOS 5 on 5 1/2 inch disks with a manual and NO holofoil.
it was easy to identify.
However once I mentioned "counterfeit" I was "persona non grata." The
manager grabbed the copies off the shelf and started to investigate
using Google. He didn't get anywhere and so called Microsoft. They
didn't have anyone there that remembered MSDOS 5, much less anything
about counterfeit copys. He got referred to a website with no info and
sat there looking at them.
I suggested that no one is ever going to use MSDOS 5 again and just
pretend He never heard me say anything. I apologised for upsetting his
day and wasting at least an hour of this time. Given the lack of
interest by Microsoft he put them back on the shelf.
So I wondered if anyone on this list collects SW like this and would
like a copy. There are several sealed editions (I think he opened one)
that they are asking $5 for (too much in my opinion but it will go
down if they do not sell - and who is going to buy MSDOS 5).
Anyway that is the ethical dilemma... should they be sold as
collectibles for any reason? I know I wouldn't dare to put it on Ebay
I did buy a copy of IBM DOS 6.3, new unopened for $2. I think there is
a collectible copy of the Microsoft MSDOS 6.0 upgrade, sealed. If
anyone is looking for IBM or Apple SW of the vintage 1990 -1999 (I
know OT) I can check.
I got an original unopened box of Asymetrix Toolbox V3 for $1, also a
Scelbi 6800 Software Gourmet Guide and Cook Book for $1.
They also had a boxful of HP factory boxed HPUX 10 CDS that looks like
it might be a complete set (maybe some doubles). They wanted $15 and I
again upset them by offering $5. "This is a thrift sore and I set the
prices" the manager said. I didn't buy it as I just got the free HPUX
11 set and haven't even had a chance to look at it. I do have an old
735 workstation that I was wondering if HPUX 10 would be better for.
Should I get these?
Another thing they have I am thinking about it a Apple Newton eMate
300 with case. They are asking $45. Is this reasonable?
If it doesn't sell they have sales and I have learned to wait for them.
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:15:57 -0500
From: Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu>
Subject: Wanted: CBM-to-IEEE cable
Hi,
I'm in need of a PET-style IEEE cable to connect an 8032 to its
peripherals. Anyone have one they're willing to part with?
This is the kind with the card edge connector on one end, and the
more traditional centronics-style IEEE connector on the other.
Thanks,
De
---------------------
Not mine, and not cheap, but if you're desperate enough:
www.jppbm.com
mike
Google has a very vast herd of machines with a
large number of hard drives. Very fruitful
that they analyze failures and publish
the results to the web!
While the drives they are studying are definitely
not classic (all dating from 2001 or later),
those of us who host large quantities of classic
material may find the results of interest:
http://labs.google.com/papers/disk_failures.pdf
Side note: at one point I found it unbelievable
that Google was using consumer-grade hardware
to host their stuff. Since then, I've developed a
lot of respect for this approach!
Tim.
At 01:42 AM 2/23/2007, Hex Star wrote:
>Indeed...and I was criticized for posting a OT thread on this list before
>and here comes a OT thread that is openly discussed...what gives??? Why was
>I flamed while this guy is not? I just don't get it...:(
Tim's a well-respected guru so he gets more slack than a newcomer
behind an alias. :-) To play devil's advocate, it is more relevant
than many OT posts. Longevity of disk drives is a significant
concern to computer collectors, no? The study is about contemporary
drives that may have very different parameters than old drives, though.
But it's always interesting to see rules of thumb and "common wisdom"
pushed aside by data and analysis.
- John
Just for illustration; our electricity supply here in England comes up
>from the Fawley power station near Southamption at 132kV on pylons. It
goes to a substation at Thatcham about two miles distant. Its stepped
down to 11kV and distributed over a radius of up to five miles on wooden
poles with a metal T bar on top. In some areas its three phase and
others not. Now comes the aforementioned transformer. Its normally
mounted on one of the 11kV poles. It steps down to 235v and feeds a fair
number of houses. Our supplies are fused at 60A or 100A at each house.
Rod Smallwood
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: 22 February 2007 21:15
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: New DEC museum entry :D
>
> Tony Duell wrote:
> > (there are no 'pole pigs' over here)
>
> Is that always true? Sometimes on rural roads with just one or two
> houses (and also individually on farms) I've seen pole-mounted
> transformers and wondered what their function is - I'd assumed they
> were step-down transformers from overhead line voltage (several KV I'd
> guess) to 240VAC. Or do they do some completely different job?
I think you're absoluately right. But they normally supply more than
just one house, don't they?
OK, I was a little too definite in my original statement. I should have
said 'Pole pigs are rarely used in the UK, in towns/cities (at least),
many houses are supplied from the same transformer'.
-tony
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
Subject: Re: New DEC museum entry :D
<snip>
>And a question for the US experts. On a 120v circuit, will a $6.00
>GFI detect a leak between neutral and ground? Or is the detection
>circuitry only on the high side of the line?
As mentioned by several others, GF(C)Is detect an imbalance between
hot and neutral and do not in fact care about ground at all. Since the
neutral is normally bonded to ground at the main panel, it would require
considerable current in the neutral to generate a detectable voltage
difference between neutral and ground at the receptacle; in the unlikely
event that the neutral is not at ground potential a GFCI would still trip
on a fault.
In fact, if you have to replace one of the unobtainium 2-prong ungrounded
receptacles in an old house wired with knob & tube (or the '50s era 2-wire NM
non-metallic sheathed), replacing it with a GFCI receptacle will give protection
similar to a grounded outlet (although of course running a ground wire back to
the panel is preferable, since an internal short or leakage will not be detected
until there is an external path to ground, and noise suppression filters will be
ineffective).
The "bedroom GFCI"s that Ethan mentioned are actually Arc-fault interrrupters,
required by most jurisdictions for the last 4 or 5 years in bedroom circuits
because neither a circuit breaker nor a GFCI will trip on an arcing short or
connection (the cause of many if not most residential electrical fires) if the
current is less than the breaker rating.
mike
Don't see many Wang minis going around. No pictures, but the
description lists it as containing a reasonable set of cards. I would
contact the seller directly before bidding.
Item # 160088328422
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
On 22 Feb, 2007, at 18:03, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:22:15 -0600
> From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: New DEC museum entry :D
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Message-ID: <45DDA717.80406 at yahoo.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> Tony Duell wrote:
>> (there are no 'pole pigs' over here)
>
> Is that always true? Sometimes on rural roads with just one or two
> houses (and
> also individually on farms) I've seen pole-mounted transformers and
> wondered
> what their function is - I'd assumed they were step-down
> transformers from
> overhead line voltage (several KV I'd guess) to 240VAC. Or do they
> do some
> completely different job?
>
I live on a farm, we have a three phase step down transformer on a
pole in our field.
It steps down from 11,000 volts to 240/440 volts. I guess the 11,000v
is across
phases as there is no neutral conductor. We used to have a two wire
supply to the
pole with a 240-0-240 transformer. Then the incoming cloth covered
wiring from the
pole caught fire. Couldn't do much - it was before it reached any of
our fuse boxes
or even the meters, even pulling out the 'company' fuses would not
have isolated
it. We put it out but ran out of powder extinguishers. The fire
brigade took over
half an hour to arrive (it was in January and it was snowing). They
went into the
house with breathing apparatus and just saved the house. Everything
was covered
in congealed PVC, some decorative candles had completely melted and
they said
another couple of minutes and we would have lost the house. They sat
on the stairs
for four hours, putting out each new fire in the distribution board
until the electricity
company turned up and pulled the 1000 Amp fuses on the pole above the
barbed
wire. The fire brigade were about to leave when my mother pointed out
some smoke
coming from the wall. The upper storey is timber framed and the
woodwork behind
the distribution board was alight. They ripped off the Kent peg tiles
and we finished
the day with a big hole in both inner and outside surfaces of the
wall. Next day the
electricity company turned up to read the meters, I said hold your
hand out, and I
dropped a few loose brass wheels which had had numbers painted on
them into
his hand and pointed out that was all that was left of the meters.
The best guess we could get from anyone was that it was a mis-matched
load over
the two 'phases' (actually 180 degrees apart), and that the neutral
wire could not
cope. Later on we got the company apparatus moved into a redundant
chimney
where it could catch light without doing much damage and I paid 400
pounds
to have an extra wire put on the overhead supply to the pole and the
transformer
upgraded to a three phase unit, so I could power my lathe, mill,
shaper, surface
grinder, pillar drill and my mainframe computer from the mains
instead of using
a generator.
Roger Holmes.
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
> > process-control equipment. I helped get me through college by
> > working as an instrumentation technician summers. Really primitive
>
> I think the main problem is that it's difficult to recreate enough of the
> 'process' at home to be able to use this equipment, so it would be a
> static collection. Of course some meaursing instruments can be used for
> other purposes, but then people do collect measuring instruments.
That's true for stuff that is built or irreversibly programmed for a particular application, but there were modular systems as well, which could be used for quite a lot of things. The 'process' can often also be scaled for a demonstration model - University has a nice display of a PLC running a model 'production line' built from Fischertechnik:
http://www.rt.eei.uni-erlangen.de/FGdes/index_en.html
As I happened across process control stuff, some of it inevitably found its way into my collection, namely:
-some Simatic N boards (eurocard form factor, DIN connectors) which fit into a small rack and realize simple logic functions like gates and flip-flops (several per card) up to counters and comperators. The person I got them from originally intended to implement some security functions for his model railway with them, reducing the possibility of accidental crashes, but now controls everything by computer.
-Simatic C1 trainer set consisting of a piece of DIN top-hat rail mounted on a wooden base and stuffed with "blocks" (functions like the boards; sized like circuit breakers, connectors on the front) together with a 24V supply and a switches/indicators panel, complete with a bunch of wires for setting up the connections. I had that wired up as a 4-bit binary counter when they wanted a prop with lights blinking in a clever fashion for our A-level party.
-Simatic S4, microprocessor based PLC (8086 I think?). It is programmed (either with a hand-held LCD device or with a luggable CP/M machine plus the appropriate software and interface)...by designing a Ladder Diagram or "Kontaktplan", a schematic of how you would implement the function you want with relays. The program is then stored in an EEPROM cartridge. I/O is also 24V DC, 230V AC modules were available. I tested it but don't know what to do with it yet; I thought about building a lights and switches panel and implementing a tic-tac-toe engine as a demonstration program.
-Sinumerik mate TG, a controller for CNC lathes. This is unfortunately incomplete, since I only have the electronics cabinet, but not the proprietary display unit which also incorporates the character and (I suppose) vector generator circuitry - It was originally there, but was junked before I realized I wanted the thing. I can only hope I'll ever find one again...used replacements are EUR 3000,- upwards.
Not much analog stuff here yet, unfortunately - apart frome some chart recorders by HP and Kipp & Zonen (Netherlands). The one HP is a two-channel recorder with fine hoses for ink distribution to the pens and rubber balls for priming - What do the cartridges look for those like? Can you still get them? (It came without.) The other HP is an analog x/y and x/t plotter with plugin slots for pre-amplifier and filter modules.
Don't have anything pneumatic or fluidic yet, althought I consider these technologies very interesting.
BTW: If somebody has analog control and/or CNC/PLC stuff floating around and wants it gone or swapped, we might try to work something out; I'm located in Germany and will be present at the VCFe 8.0, 28./29.04. in Munich.
Greetings,
--
Arno Kletzander
Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen
www.iser.uni-erlangen.de
"Feel free" - 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat ...
Jetzt GMX TopMail testen: www.gmx.net/de/go/mailfooter/topmail-out
I've just posted ImageDisk 1.14 to the web site.
This is a minor update adding automatic processing of
IMD.CMD if it exists in the ImageDisk home directory at
startup (lets you customize IMD to your own preferences),
and the ability to easily run command files from the IMD
home directory.
Please let me know if you encounter any problems.
Dave
--
dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html
Hi
I would have gladly taken it 'tware it not for the fact I'm in the UK.
I worked for DEC when Rainbows were current.
I had one mounted in the leg of a special desk made to take them.
It would have complemented my '91 Vax 4000 nicely.
Its a pity air freight has not gone the way of passenger air fares.
Oh well! one may turn up in the UK.
Rod Smallwood
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob Rosenbloom
Sent: 21 February 2007 20:51
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: DEC Rainbow PC100 available
Not my cup of tea but someone on this list may be interested. Please
contact Gary directly.
Bob
______________________________________________________________________
Bob,
Our stuff isn't really what I would call "vintage". It's a 1985 rainbow
pc100. about the only cool thing is that is is all complete including
documentation and mint condition. my wife worked for DEC at the time and
purchased it as a "state of the art" system......
if you know of anyone collecting these I can e-mail the original billing
statement which lists the whole system.
Gary Mathews
garym at quickbeam.com
I was emailing back & forth with a person who collects HP mini's and they
mentioned....
> Eventually, I'd like to put together a dual-processor realtime system
> similar to the Continental 2005A RTE configuration,
I responded...
> I've never even seen any reference
> to it. I'm extremely curious as to just what it is. Can you enlighten
> me at all about it?
He said...
Continental Airlines contracted HP to build a real-time system around
1970, and HP put together a dual-CPU system similar to a 2000A, with a
2116 and a 2114. HP advertised the hardware configuration itself (not
just the software) as the 2005A Real Time Executive. The Contential
configuration is dual-CPU, but the default 2005A configuration in the HP
catalog has only a 2116 and about half the peripherals of the
Continental configuration.
-------------------------
I have never heard of this Continental 2005A dual processor Real Time
Executive, especially as an official product. Does anyone have more
information?
Jay
>
>Subject: Re: Is this true?? (TI & watches)
> From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:48:19 -0800 (PST)
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>> > Before there were quartz crystal oscillators in watches, Bulova developed
>> > and sold watches with 360Hz tuning fork oscillators.
Otherwise know as Accutron Watches. Very fine and accurate.
>On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>> ...and before that, there were electric watches that used a
>> conventional balance wheel as the timing reference.
Before that (mt Cessna still has one) there were clocks that used
A solenoid and contact to wind a mainspring for the usual wound
clock style balance wheel and escapement.
>.. . . but we still consider the digital watch to be a pretty neat idea
Indeed.
Allison
> I need a copy of thismanual - where can I go to see it?
I have a copy scanned, I'll see about getting it on line
under http://bitsavers.org/pdf/cipher
Has anyone started to rebuild the boot disk/software archives similar to what
Don Maslin was doing? I see bits and pieces spread around the web but nothing
all inclusive such as what Don had. It would be great to see it all in one place
and mirrored in the same way as bitsavers.
I did find a list of the disks that Don had online (I think at Gaby). To the
best of my knowledge, that was the only online compilation of what was contained
in his collection.
I will forward your message to the Classic Computer Collector
mailing list. Perhaps someone there can help.
- John
>Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 12:35:08 -0300 (ART)
>From: dario de rito <deritod at yahoo.com.ar>
>Subject: 8" floppy technical data
>To: jfoust at threedee.com
>
>hi.
>I'm working with a disquette drive formatter model
>6700 (DRE )disquette 8" simple side, 77 tracks 26
>sector,256kbyte.
>I design an interface for recovery the data recorded
>in the disquette.
>I have the digital information of each sector record
>in my PC,but i dont understand the data, because i
>dont know the code or standard used in 1970/78 for
>record data, i dont know if the data block have a
>particular format
>The disquette have a program in atol language.
>The disquette is compatible with IBM3740.
>Do you have information about it?, the standard use in
>1970/78, any format?
>Thanks
>Dario De Rito
On 21 Feb, 2007, at 18:01, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
>
> Does anyone remember that the oldest of said wall clocks required the
> owner to start the motor manually by spinning a little knurled shaft
> located on the back?
I don't think I'd call it a wall clock, but I have a clock like that
in the computer room.
It is octagonal and painted pink, so not my favourite, but I used to
use it to keep
an eye on the time so I could top up the diesel in the 3 Phase
generator which
used to run the mainframe.
I also have a clockwork car clock which gets wound by the movement of
the car.
That's way off topic though.
I wonder which was the first computer with a real time clock, what
year and how
it was implemented. I imagine it was invented primarily for charging
for computer
time. I think the first machine I programmed, the IBM 7094 had one
because if
your job ran over its limit time (30 seconds IIRC), the job was
aborted. Unless that
was the operator looking at his wrist watch!
Roger Holmes
Guy wrote:
> There's an even *more* interesting paper on
> this from a CMU post-doc (math warning...lots
> of statistics) that seems to blow away many (if not
> all) assumptions about drive failures/quality/raid/etc.
I looked through FAST05 and found a few CMU
papers but nothing that looked like that. If/when
you find the link I'm very interested. My anecdotal
experience is based entirely on a hatred of
unnecessary technology especially RAID controller
failures (there must be a curse: the controller
barfs or loses its config more often than drives
fail!)
Interesting side point: in several case I've
been able to find files (tape images that I made
a decade or two ago) that I had misplaced (not
a drive crash but simply losing them in the shuffle)
by Googling for them and finding a copy of my
tape image, in a directory name that I had made
up twenty years ago, elsewhere on the web!
I was astounded!
Tim.