test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Has anyone considered teaming up with someone who makes neon signs to make a nixie tube? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

19 years, 3 months

place your bets

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

I don't know about cases but I do remember a TV program where an IBM guy reached into a drawer and produced the first and original wire wrapped 8088 PC prototype board. Talk about 'mother of many'!! Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin Sent: 05 March 2007 20:44 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: place your bets > > Did the earliest prototypes of the PC, and later AT, that Microsoft > > got to work with have cases? > On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Chris M wrote: > Whether that question is rhetorical or not, I haven't the answer. Are > there pictures of these things somewhere out there? not rhetorical (Don't you hate rhetorical questions?) There don't seem to be pictures, and the people are getting scarcer. I had a friend who worked at Microsoft in those days (and before, when you could ask for somebody on the phone by first name), but he died a few years ago.

19 years, 3 months

Copying DEC VAX set up disks rx50, help

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Copying DEC VAX set up disks rx50, help > From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com> > Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 07:00:53 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> Image Disk reads it with out errors >> 0/0: 300k DD 10 sectors of 512 bytes - G1:9 G2:17 >> 0/1: Single sided >> 0/0: Single Step >> 800 sectors (800 data, 0 compressed, 0 unaval) >> Read complete >> >> >> Trying to write and it has errors from the get go. >> 0/0: 300k 10 sectors of 512 bytes >> :format error <0> overun >> :write error <2> no sector >> and on ............................. >> >> written on a PC with 1.2 HD drive >> Tried on another 1.2 and on a 360k drive >> all capable of SD . >> >> I tried both HD and DD disks . all bulk erased first. > >Don't use HD disks - as ImageDisk noted in it's initial >report, all sectors in the image are double-density. To affirm this, as exDEC RX50 is DD (250kbs). >You didn't show all the information, but since it's >single-sided, 10 sectors per track, and there are 800 >sectors, this tells me it's an 80 track disk. > >So - don't use a 360K drive (they are only 40 tracks). >You shouldn't need to worry about SD capability - there >are no SD sectors in the image. Correct The RX50 drive is a dual spindle single head positioner 80 track (96tpi) drive. >The 300k data rate tells me that you recorded this on a >1.2M HD drive - I'm assuming you did not specify a 300-250k >data rate translation when you recorded it (?) It's not 300 data rate it's 250! >Assuming all that, it should write back to a 1.2M HD drive >with ImageDisk. It should also write back to a 80 track DD >drive such as TEAC-55F or SA-460 or TM-100-4. You would need >to set a 250->300k data rate translation to write on a DD drive. > >I don't have any VAX disks to try, however I have read and >written Rainbow disks, which are also RX50 and use 80 tracks >by 10x512byte sectors, so I know ImageDisk works with this >format. VAX, Rainbow and otehr DEC RX50 media are all the same save for the filesystems. The only other DEC 5.25 formats are RX180 (Robin aka VT180 which is 40 track single sided DD 180k) and Vaxmate (286 PC like) that used the RX33 drive for standard PC 1.2mb format. There is a VAX RX33 format that was found in microVAX2000 or RQDX3 controller for QBUS systems [must be late firmware on the MSCP sontroller]. That format was a flavor of 1.2mb PC format and also did RX50 using FD55GFR (aka RX33 drive). Older firmware RQDX-1/2/3 controller only did RX50 format. >10x512byte sectors can be twitchy on some PC setups. It >pushes the limits of the drive and formatting more than >the standard PC formats do. Most systems which use 10x512 >have a more flexible FDC than the PC does. > >Some suggestions: > >- Clean the heads and make sure the drive is working OK. > Format a floppy on your PC, then read it with ImageDisk > and see if all sectors can be written. > >** Don't bother looking at any other suggestions until your >** drive is verified to be operating 100% > >- Make sure you are using a recent copy of ImageDisk (you > can get the latest from my site). Some of the older > versions had trouble with gap calculations, especially > on "tighter" disks. > >- Try another PC (not just a different drive). Important as PC controler vary in implmentation at the subtle level. >- Try making one of the Rainbow images from my site - this > is the same format. > NOTE: My images reflect the true data rate of the target > system (250k), so you will need to set a 250->300k > data rate translation to write them on an HD drive. > If this works, then there may be a problem with the > imaes you have created - send me one to look at. > >- Check your drive speed. If it's high, try slowing it to > exactly 360 rpm - if it's "bang on", you might try slowing > it by 5-10 rpm - this can help if your PC is marginal at > the gaps required for 10x512. This works and can help greatly. Also make sure the PC is trying to run the 1.2mb drive at 300rpm and NOT 360 or switching to 300kbs while using the nominal 360rpm as NEITHER WILL WORK. RX50 is NOT 1.2mb mode its a 80track flavor of DD (400k per disk single sided). This is a foreign format and requires forcing the PC hardware in many cases. I cheat I use a FD55E (96tpi, single sided 360rpm only) as then the PC cannot force 300 rpm. >- Look at the calculated gap sizes, and try reducing them > slightly. You shouldn't need to, but it's worth a try - PCs > are "highly variable". ;) you got that one nailed. >I don't have VAX disks to try, but I've just successfully made >one of my Rainbow images using ImageDisk 1.14 and a HD drive. >The speed test shows my drive at 359 rpm. Rainbow RX50 and VAX RX50 are same on disk low level format. The filesystems are very different but if your reading sectors (raw) then they are identical. I may add that XXDP(x11 diags) on RX50 and RT-11 on RX50 also share that common media level format. In DEC parlance RX50 refers to 80tracks, 96tpi, single sided with 10 sectors per track and 512bytes persector formatted at a data rate of 250kbs @360 rpm. It also refers to the drive known as RX50. Hole this clears up some misconceptions. Allison

19 years, 3 months

NASA cards

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Will we be able to see the listing of those cards you just won from > NASA? :-) I'm assuming they are binaries for the IBM 704, since they are described as 704 column binary. the auction was http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330095278250

19 years, 3 months

Nine track tape BOT sensing foil

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> After a recent fight with some Cipher tape drives, > trying to boot a system, I managed to badly mangle the > leader of my boot tape. > The BOT on a nine track is > just a hunk of sensing foil True, but on tapes 1600 bpi and higher there is a burst recorded over the BOT marker on one of the tracks to identify the density. You obviously can't move the mark very far into the tape without running into the first data block either, even if you force the read density, which you can't really do on auto loading Ciphers. I have spliced new leader onto damaged tape before, using analog tape splicing techniques (diagonal cut with two overlapping pieces, then tape on the back). From memory, Cipher drives don't have flux gates (little door over the top of the head). Thin clear packing tape works OK, but don't plan on reusing the tape after you get the data off.

19 years, 3 months

Copying DEC VAX set up disks rx50, help

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Copying DEC VAX set up disks rx50, help > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 03:00:37 +0000 (GMT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> I dunno, RX50 format is easy to copy. Make sure that your 1.2M drive >> is declared as such in the BIOS setup--if it's confused with a 1.44MB >> drive, it's not going to work, as 2D operation on a 1.2MB requires a >> write clock (300KHz) that conforms to a 360 RPM drive. A 1.44MB >> drive is 300 RPM--so any attempt to write a 2D format using a 250KHz >> clock rate is guaranteed to fail--you'll run out track before you run >> out of data. > >I once saw a PC multi-I/O card that couldn't do the 300kbps data rate, I >think it just did it as 250kbps.... Needless to say that card went >straight back to the suppliers... > >Anyway, with so few people (other than on this list :-)) using 5.25" >drives now, I wonder if most modern PCs can still generate the 300kbps >rate, If not, this could explain the problems the OP is having... > >-tony Wrong. The RX50 format and RX33 formats are very differnt. The RX33 is PC compatable and was not used for VMS floppy sets. The RX50 drive is a Single sided 80 track (96tpi) double density drive with the oddity of two spindles and one head positioner. I have used FD55F as a single drive repelacement as RX50s are not very reliable and noisy (acousticlly). The RX33 drive (FD55GFR or similar) in the slow mode also works fine. The problem is to fit 10sectors DEC used the WD1793 and fudged the format some to truncate the Index mark gap and end of track gap. The 765 will read this if: it is the 765A or 7265 and the drive is not running fast (works better if running 1% slow!). The 765 has a built in ship over index time and the later versions had this time shortend or eliminated in the case of the 7265. The easy fix is slow the drive a few percent till it starts reading. The hard way fix is to crank up the clock driving the 765by 2% (replace the 8/16/24or 32mhz clock with one 2% faster). It's harder as finding a clock that is just a tad faster is not common. FYI: some PC floppy controller work better than others due to implmentation differnces internal to the integrated flavors of the 765 (9266, 8243, 37C65m 37C665...). Me I cheat, I use either the PDP11 or a real microVAX with RX50 or rx33 and avoid the pain. Allison

19 years, 3 months

compucolor II on ebay

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chris M wrote: Ok, here's probably the zaniest question of the week. How many computers/terminals/or-what-have-you used happy colorful keytops? I really expect you all to work hard at a comprehensive list this time, or I'll get so mad I just might quit the list! LOL LOL LOL don't count on it!! Billy: I'm certain you'll see all kinds of answers. This is an old idea, reinvented every generation of keyboards. Coloured keys was a common technique long before the PC world. In the late '50's, different colours were used to indicate which keys represented instructions - this was back in the days of inputting your program directly through the keyboard. A good example is the RPC-4000 or LPG-30. Before that, there were some keyboards that were used for more than one language, with switches to control the language. I saw this on some of the Fujitsu computers of the mid-50's. The keyboard could input normal English characters or Kanji. The Kanji characters were colour coded to reflect the root character. Saw that same concept on many other keyboards that used characters unique to a language all through the early computer industry around the world. Going further back, some of the linotypes were modified for special characters and used different coloured key tops for special characters. I've seen photos of this from the 30's and 40's. I'll have to ask the typewriter egroup what they think is the oldest. I would bet it goes back to the earliest typing machines. Billy

19 years, 3 months

place your bets

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

Got a call from someone here in NJ. He has about 10 older computers, 1 has the old style "10 inch" floppy drives. I have to assume that means 8 inch (didn't bother getting into that with him over the phone) - but what could it be??? My bet is some sort of Tandy something or other, for these are the most commonly found units with those drives. He has to take pictures and whatnot and e-mail them to me. I haven't got any finger nails left... There never was a 10" drive, was there? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com

19 years, 3 months

DEC BC16E cable

by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Evening folks, Anyone know of a decent source of BC16e cable? We're trying to replace a drum of the stuff at work so we're not after it for nothing (though that's a nice price :)) but actually finding a known source in the UK is proving difficult. Any tips appreciated. -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer collection?

19 years, 3 months

De Anza (Foothill) Swapmeet this Saturday

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Also, does anyone who has sold up there know what time to be in line or to get > there? Used to be before dawn, and over by noon. It gets off to a slow start now, so any time before 7.

19 years, 3 months

De Anza (Foothill) Swapmeet this Saturday

by marvin＠rain.org

The Livermore swapmeet was "mudded" out Sunday, so I am planning on being at the De Anza (foothill) swapmeet in Cupertino (California) this Saturday. I'll be bringing a bunch of stuff I owe to people up there, so if anyone sees anything I have on VCM they would like to buy and have me bring up, let me know. I like "free" shipping :). Also, does anyone who has sold up there know what time to be in line or to get there?

19 years, 3 months

QB Format?

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 13:51:46 -0500 From: "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com> Subject: Re: QB Format? Mike, Let me know if you do have a copy please.... thank you. Curt -------------------- That might take a while considering the state of my floppy collection, but I'll keep an eye out (if my recollection is even correct). Meanwhile, try the Amiga version if you can, and also look around for various others; there were several programs named Qbackup and it might well have been one of those. mike ================================================= ------------- M H Stein wrote: > Message: 33 > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 00:50:22 -0500 (EST) > From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) > Subject: Re: QB Format? > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <20070304055022.8D0C4162B4 at mail.wordstock.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > And thusly were the wise words spake by Curt @ Atari Museum > >> I'm going through and archiving 3.5" disks onto my PC, I've run across a >> box of disks marked: >> >> QB Format and I am unable to read them with some of the disk utils I >> have, is anyone familiar with this format and know what system it >> belongs too? I was thinking Amiga perhaps, but I haven't been able to >> find any reference to Amiga and QB format. >> >> > > QuarterBack? An Amiga backup program... > > Cheers, > > Bryan > ------------------------------- > Also used by PCs; might even still have a copy somewhere. > > mike > > >

19 years, 3 months

Copying DEC VAX set up disks rx50, followup

by g-wright＠att.net

-------------- Original message from "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com>: -------------- > > Image Disk reads it with out errors > > 0/0: 300k DD 10 sectors of 512 bytes - G1:9 G2:17 > > 0/1: Single sided > > 0/0: Single Step > > 800 sectors (800 data, 0 compressed, 0 unaval) > > Read complete > > > > > > Trying to write and it has errors from the get go. > > 0/0: 300k 10 sectors of 512 bytes > > :format error <0> overun > > :write error <2> no sector > > and on ............................. > > > > written on a PC with 1.2 HD drive > > Tried on another 1.2 and on a 360k drive > > all capable of SD . > > > > I tried both HD and DD disks . all bulk erased first. > > Don't use HD disks - as ImageDisk noted in it's initial > report, all sectors in the image are double-density. > > You didn't show all the information, but since it's > single-sided, 10 sectors per track, and there are 800 > sectors, this tells me it's an 80 track disk. > > So - don't use a 360K drive (they are only 40 tracks). > You shouldn't need to worry about SD capability - there > are no SD sectors in the image. > > The 300k data rate tells me that you recorded this on a > 1.2M HD drive - I'm assuming you did not specify a 300-250k > data rate translation when you recorded it (?) > > Assuming all that, it should write back to a 1.2M HD drive > with ImageDisk. It should also write back to a 80 track DD > drive such as TEAC-55F or SA-460 or TM-100-4. You would need > to set a 250->300k data rate translation to write on a DD drive. > > I don't have any VAX disks to try, however I have read and > written Rainbow disks, which are also RX50 and use 80 tracks > by 10x512byte sectors, so I know ImageDisk works with this > format. > > 10x512byte sectors can be twitchy on some PC setups. It > pushes the limits of the drive and formatting more than > the standard PC formats do. Most systems which use 10x512 > have a more flexible FDC than the PC does. Thats the answer ........................... > > Some suggestions: > > snip ............................................................... long reply, lots of help. All is well, the disks booted a VAX 8250 with out any problems as I said in a earlier post it was the controller that caused the problem. I guess that why I have 6 image disk machines. Dave if your reading this, Thanks for a great product. 1) question. I was reading some Cromemco Cromix disks which are 360k DD with sd boot tracks on a 1.2 meg dirve and a SD controller. Disks where all original Cromemco or Dynatech software. I would get 0/0: unable to determine interleave :300k SD - 18 sectors of 128 bytes G1:7 G2:9 0/1 300k DD -10 sectors of 512 bytes G1:13 G2:20 and on.................... (xxx data, xx compresses. 0 unavil) This did not happen on all of the disks (50%) but the first one which is bootable, did have problems. It seemed to read them OK, but I switch to a 360 drive to be safe. I did not try to write any of these but would they still work with the interleave error. The 360k drive setup had no problems at all. -- > dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html Thanks, jerry

19 years, 3 months

Copying DEC VAX set up disks rx50, help

by g-wright＠att.net

Hi, I have a stack of the orginal VAX Disks (console and set up , 5 1/4 RX50 ) The ones in front of me are for a 8200 series. I would like to copy them but can't get image disk to work. Is this possible or do I have to use a VAX.. I have RT11 on a micro PDP-11 with a RX50 and I think my professional still works. But would really like to get it on a better media for long term storage. Image Disk reads it with out errors 0/0: 300k DD 10 sectors of 512 bytes - G1:9 G2:17 0/1: Single sided 0/0: Single Step 800 sectors (800 data, 0 compressed, 0 unaval) Read complete Trying to write and it has errors from the get go. 0/0: 300k 10 sectors of 512 bytes :format error <0> overun :write error <2> no sector and on ............................. written on a PC with 1.2 HD drive Tried on another 1.2 and on a 360k drive all capable of SD . I tried both HD and DD disks . all bulk erased first. Thanks, Jerry

19 years, 3 months

Copying DEC VAX set up disks rx50, help

by g-wright＠att.net

-------------- Original message from "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>: -------------- > On 3/3/07, g-wright at att.net wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a stack of the original VAX Disks (console and > > set up , 5 1/4 RX50 ) The ones in front of me are > > for a 8200 series. I would like to copy them but can't > > get image disk to work. Is this possible or do I have to > > use a VAX.. > > You should not have to use a VAX. There's nothing strange about the > low-level format for 8200 console disks (I have an 8200/8300 in my > basement, FWIW). > > > I have RT11 on a micro PDP-11 with a RX50 > > and I think my professional still works. But would really like to > > get it on a better media for long term storage. > > Sure. > > > Image Disk reads it with out errors > > 0/0: 300k DD 10 sectors of 512 bytes - G1:9 G2:17 > > 0/1: Single sided > > 0/0: Single Step > > 800 sectors (800 data, 0 compressed, 0 unaval) > > Read complete Heres is where I believe I missed the problem. The disks are not full using Anadisk on the floppy, data ends at cylinder 28 and is blank to the end. Anadisk can scan the whole disk with out errors. with 800 data and no compressed some thing is wrong. If I understand Image disk correctly. I moved to another Image Disk machine (I have 6 now) and its seems to work fine. Although I believe the proof will be by trying them. The new readings are (800 sectors, 472 data, 328 compressed, 0 Unavail) and the Write works with out errors. The original IMD file size was 400k the new one is much smaller. I have writen these out on both DD and HD media. both bulk erased first. > > So far, so good... > > > Trying to write and it has errors from the get go. > > 0/0: 300k 10 sectors of 512 bytes > > :format error <0> overun > > :write error <2> no sector > > and on ............................. > > > > written on a PC with 1.2 HD drive > > Tried on another 1.2 and on a 360k drive > > all capable of SD . > > > > I tried both HD and DD disks . all bulk erased first. > > Hmm... Others on the list can chime in with their floppy expertise, > but from the way you are describing what you've tried, it doesn't > sound as if you have a clear picture of the media in front of you. Boy did you read that one right Thank you Ethan .............. This did help move me along. > > RX50 disks are single-sided (as mentioned by imagedisk in your read > example, above), 80-track, ten 512 byte-sectors per track for a total > of 400Kbytes. Your 360K drive can _not_ write RX50 disks (among other > issues, it's a 40-track drive). > > If you've verified that your 1.2MB drive works as a PC drive, then, > presuming you have the right media, you shouldn't have any hardware > issues writing RX50 images. Media is where I get a little fuzzy on > the details. I've personally only ever written RX50 images to RX50 > media. I've never tried to recycle PC floppies, so I'm not sure what > the best choice is. I do seem to recall that what you want should > *not* have hub reinforcement rings, as they can cause alignment > problems in real RX50 drives. > > If you can score a Teac FD55GFR drive, it can be strapped up to be a > _real_ RX33 or strapped to behave "normally" on a PC FC controller. > The strapping has to do with motor on and select lines, not data, BTW. > I mention the FD55GFR because it was the 5.25" drive DEC shipped > after they moved on from the RX50, so you can be sure that you aren't > having hardware compatibility issues (plus, it's all-around good, > solid 5.25" drive). I did try this and it is the controller that causes the problem. no to sure why ??? I have been re-reading all of my disks with image disk and have found that many of my original disks worked fine but the copies I made on the original hardware had bad tracks. So now I'm re-writing everything and trying it in the original machine if possible. The machine here that did not work was my main machine for 22disk, anadisk and teledisk. But it has a secondary controller (compaticard 4) with 4 more external drives. The most trouble free set up so far is a Adaptec AHA-1542cp SCSI controller with floppy. I now have 4 PC's with this card and have not seen any problems with single density or in this case odd formats. These are the ISA version with a HD SCSI connector on the back. Some of the other version of the card can't do Single density. > > In your case, I'd run some read/write/verify tests with your 1.2MB > drive and PC-compatible floppies and if they show any marginal > problems, try cleaning the heads. You can clean the heads in any > case, but it might be nice to have a "before" picture to compare > post-cleaning performance. If you can locate some real RX50 media, > try writing to those. They aren't "magical", but they are > pre-formatted for 10 sectors-per-track (MS-DOS uses 9 sectors for 360K > disks and 17 sectors for 1.2MB disks, if you didn't remember). As > with the RX01s, most DEC equipment can *not* lay down the RX50 > low-level format, the Rainbow being the most notable exception. A PC > _can_ format an RX50, but you'll need some 3rd-party tool to do that - > DOS can't by itself. > > I'm sure others will be able to chime in with various informed opinions. > > -ethan > > P.S. - just found this old doc on the state of RX50s and various > versions of DOS and tools for DOS... > http://www.classiccmp.org/rainbow/files/rx50faq.doc Dunno what OS you > are using to write your disks, but perhaps some info in this FAQ will > shed some light. I have a good friend that has almost every VAX and PDD machine made so He is going to test these. After these disks get tested, I will post a follow-up. Thank, Jerry Jerry Wright g-wright at att.net

19 years, 3 months

brightening CRTs

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

So, I've acquired a Wyse 99gt with no screen burn, but I need to turn the contrast up all the way to be visible. Can anyone point me to documents or other resources on brightening the CRT? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

19 years, 3 months

compucolor II on ebay

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

DEC LK Keyboard series used coloured characters and symbols on keycaps Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Burton Sent: 04 March 2007 21:42 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: compucolor II on ebay Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> wrote: Ok, here's probably the zaniest question of the week. How many computers/terminals/or-what-have-you used happy colorful keytops? I really expect you all to work hard at a comprehensive list this time, or I'll get so mad I just might quit the list! LOL LOL LOL don't count on it!! Hmmm, I can only think of one. I'm not sure whether it was the BBC or the Archemedes, but i'm sure one of them had orange function keys (F1 to F12?). Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 3 months

spring cleaning: 8" floppies for rx/30 Transaction Data Systems

by frustum＠pacbell.net

I have found a couple boxes of 8" disks; many of the disks are labeled "backup" and are likely boring, but there were a few interesting ones: 065-060400-01 MPDTOS FE USE ONLY QF1 REV 7.00 (SET OF 2) (c) Data General Corporation 1982 and RS/30 STARTER DISKETTE REV. 6.0 FOR CS/10 MOD C1 DISKETTE #1 3-9-83 LICENSE MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF TRANSACTION DATA SYSTEMS, INC. (and other similar RX/30 disks with other labels) Interestingly, RS/30 is still be sold by Transaction Data Systems: http://www.rx30.com/ If anybody wants these, I'll mail them for the price of postage. Please reply off list.

19 years, 3 months

I am now Annoyed [Re: Old oscilloscope help: ideas sought]

by mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA

Some of you may reacll that, back in July, I wrote about an oscilloscope whose power transformer failed in service. Well, today I was going through my tuit collection and found some round ones. I've now clipped the transformer free of the circuit and removed it. I then applied an ohmmeter to the transformer, now that it's free of the machine, which gave me good guesses at what winding is what. Then I got out the current-limiting light bulb rig and hooked the primary up (well, half the primary; it has a split primary, for 115/230 mains switching). Then I measured the primary voltage and the voltages on various interesting windings. Based on all of this, I think I have a good guess what's what: - Input mains: four wires, two windings, which are connected in parallel for 115V operation and series for 230V operation. - 5VAC filament winding for B+ rectifier tube. - ~800VAC CT (400-0-400) winding which is rectified for B+. (With 26V on the 115V-nominal mains primary, this measured 176V, or ~778V when running normally.) - Filament winding for one HV rectifier tube. - Filament winding for the other HV rectifier tube. - HV supply winding. - 6.3VAC CT winding to run the heaters for most tubes. (There are some 12V-heater tubes, but they all have centre-tapped heaters.) - There is one more wire unaccounted for. On opening the transformer case, I find it is a case ground. The HV supply winding appears to be fried. I didn't bother with all the filament windings (though I did measure the heater winding, which appeared to be intact); the B+ supply winding seemed intact, but the HV supply winding showed ~2V instead of the 200-300V I would expect with ~25V on the primary. So now I'm thinking of finding a half-dozen different transformers to run the six different pieces off of.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

19 years, 3 months

place your bets

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

INTEL MDS -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser Sent: 03 March 2007 22:03 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: place your bets > >>> For fun, how's about we create a list of units that had 8" > >>> drives. Off the top of my head: Commodore even did. -- --------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- "I'd love to go out with you, but my personalities each need therapy." -----

19 years, 3 months

Copying DEC VAX set up disks rx50, help

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Copying DEC VAX set up disks rx50, help > From: g-wright at att.net > Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:08:17 +0000 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > > >-------------- Original message from "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>: -------------- > > >> On 3/3/07, g-wright at att.net wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I have a stack of the original VAX Disks (console and >> > set up , 5 1/4 RX50 ) The ones in front of me are >> > for a 8200 series. I would like to copy them but can't >> > get image disk to work. Is this possible or do I have to >> > use a VAX.. >> >> You should not have to use a VAX. There's nothing strange about the >> low-level format for 8200 console disks (I have an 8200/8300 in my >> basement, FWIW). >> >> > I have RT11 on a micro PDP-11 with a RX50 >> > and I think my professional still works. But would really like to >> > get it on a better media for long term storage. >> >> Sure. >> >> > Image Disk reads it with out errors >> > 0/0: 300k DD 10 sectors of 512 bytes - G1:9 G2:17 >> > 0/1: Single sided >> > 0/0: Single Step >> > 800 sectors (800 data, 0 compressed, 0 unaval) >> > Read complete > > >Heres is where I believe I missed the problem. The disks are not full >using Anadisk on the floppy, data ends at cylinder 28 and is >blank to the end. Anadisk can scan the whole disk with out errors. >with 800 data and no compressed some thing is wrong. If I understand >Image disk correctly. >I moved to another Image Disk machine (I have 6 now) and its seems to >work fine. Although I believe the proof will be by trying them. The >new readings are (800 sectors, 472 data, 328 compressed, 0 Unavail) >and the Write works with out errors. The original IMD file size was >400k the new one is much smaller. I have writen these out on both >DD and HD media. both bulk erased first. > HD media will have an increased likelyhood of errors as its the wrong media for tha data rate. > > >> So far, so good... >> >> > Trying to write and it has errors from the get go. >> > 0/0: 300k 10 sectors of 512 bytes >> > :format error <0> overun >> > :write error <2> no sector >> > and on ............................. >> > >> > written on a PC with 1.2 HD drive >> > Tried on another 1.2 and on a 360k drive >> > all capable of SD . >> > >> > I tried both HD and DD disks . all bulk erased first. >> >> Hmm... Others on the list can chime in with their floppy expertise, >> but from the way you are describing what you've tried, it doesn't >> sound as if you have a clear picture of the media in front of you. > > >Boy did you read that one right Thank you Ethan .............. This did help >move me along. > >> >> RX50 disks are single-sided (as mentioned by imagedisk in your read >> example, above), 80-track, ten 512 byte-sectors per track for a total >> of 400Kbytes. Your 360K drive can _not_ write RX50 disks (among other >> issues, it's a 40-track drive). >> >> If you've verified that your 1.2MB drive works as a PC drive, then, >> presuming you have the right media, you shouldn't have any hardware >> issues writing RX50 images. Media is where I get a little fuzzy on >> the details. I've personally only ever written RX50 images to RX50 >> media. I've never tried to recycle PC floppies, so I'm not sure what >> the best choice is. I do seem to recall that what you want should >> *not* have hub reinforcement rings, as they can cause alignment >> problems in real RX50 drives. The Problem os If the 1.2mb drive works your're cooked as the format is not 1.2mb or even close. You would be testing for the worng thing. >> If you can score a Teac FD55GFR drive, it can be strapped up to be a >> _real_ RX33 or strapped to behave "normally" on a PC FC controller. >> The strapping has to do with motor on and select lines, not data, BTW. >> I mention the FD55GFR because it was the 5.25" drive DEC shipped >> after they moved on from the RX50, so you can be sure that you aren't >> having hardware compatibility issues (plus, it's all-around good, >> solid 5.25" drive). Either strapping the FD55GFR for 360rpm only and 250kbs data rate only or better yet use a FD55E. >I did try this and it is the controller that causes the problem. no to sure >why ??? > >I have been re-reading all of my disks with image disk and have found >that many of my original disks worked fine but the copies I made on the >original hardware had bad tracks. So now I'm re-writing everything and >trying it in the original machine if possible. The machine here that did not >work was my main machine for 22disk, anadisk and teledisk. But it has a >secondary controller (compaticard 4) with 4 more external drives. FYI: IF the original hardware has an RX50 drive.. thats your problem as they tended to have speed and alignment problems galore. when the RX50 drive is questionable (all are untill proven working!!!) I sub in a pair of FD55E or suitably (nonDEC jumpering) jumpered pair of FD55GFR with a hacked up cable and pull the RX50. Since I have a collection of Qbus VAXen and Qbus PDP-11s it's far easier to rely on the RQDX3 and RX33 drives as they do RX50 just fine and do not incur the RX50 relability issues. Also the RX50 is just plain LOUD. Allison >The most trouble free set up so far is a Adaptec AHA-1542cp SCSI >controller with floppy. I now have 4 PC's with this card and have not seen >any problems with single density or in this case odd formats. These are the >ISA version with a HD SCSI connector on the back. Some of the other >version of the card can't do Single density. > >> >> In your case, I'd run some read/write/verify tests with your 1.2MB >> drive and PC-compatible floppies and if they show any marginal >> problems, try cleaning the heads. You can clean the heads in any >> case, but it might be nice to have a "before" picture to compare >> post-cleaning performance. If you can locate some real RX50 media, >> try writing to those. They aren't "magical", but they are >> pre-formatted for 10 sectors-per-track (MS-DOS uses 9 sectors for 360K >> disks and 17 sectors for 1.2MB disks, if you didn't remember). As >> with the RX01s, most DEC equipment can *not* lay down the RX50 >> low-level format, the Rainbow being the most notable exception. A PC >> _can_ format an RX50, but you'll need some 3rd-party tool to do that - >> DOS can't by itself. >> >> I'm sure others will be able to chime in with various informed opinions. >> >> -ethan >> >> P.S. - just found this old doc on the state of RX50s and various >> versions of DOS and tools for DOS... >> http://www.classiccmp.org/rainbow/files/rx50faq.doc Dunno what OS you >> are using to write your disks, but perhaps some info in this FAQ will >> shed some light. > >I have a good friend that has almost every VAX and PDD machine made >so He is going to test these. > >After these disks get tested, I will post a follow-up. > >Thank, Jerry > >Jerry Wright >g-wright at att.net

19 years, 3 months

DEC Disks Available

by technobug＠comcast.net

> I was just at the local scrapper and had him put aside two RL02s, > an RA81, an Unibus crate ( I wasn't able to get the model), a dual > cassette box, and the red and orange trim pieces that go at the top > and between the units - everything was about to be sent to the > shredder. If there is any interest, let me know and I'll pass on > the info. I can do any checkout anyone wishes later in the week. Should have noted that the items are in Tucson, Baja Arizona. CRC

19 years, 3 months

QB Format?

by dm561＠torfree.net

Message: 33 Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 00:50:22 -0500 (EST) From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Subject: Re: QB Format? To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <20070304055022.8D0C4162B4 at mail.wordstock.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii And thusly were the wise words spake by Curt @ Atari Museum > > I'm going through and archiving 3.5" disks onto my PC, I've run across a > box of disks marked: > > QB Format and I am unable to read them with some of the disk utils I > have, is anyone familiar with this format and know what system it > belongs too? I was thinking Amiga perhaps, but I haven't been able to > find any reference to Amiga and QB format. > QuarterBack? An Amiga backup program... Cheers, Bryan ------------------------------- Also used by PCs; might even still have a copy somewhere. mike

19 years, 3 months

place your bets

by marvin＠rain.org

> From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > >Are there ANY 30 year old computer companies that didn't? > >(not counting "consumer electronics" companies :) > > Apple! While there were add on 8" drives Apple started with 5.25. Ah yes, Lobo Drives made 8" drives available for the Apple computer. The three external drive units I have here all have 8" hard drives in the chassis as well.

19 years, 3 months

DEC Disks Available

by technobug＠comcast.net

I was just at the local scrapper and had him put aside two RL02s, an RA81, an Unibus crate ( I wasn't able to get the model), a dual cassette box, and the red and orange trim pieces that go at the top and between the units - everything was about to be sent to the shredder. If there is any interest, let me know and I'll pass on the info. I can do any checkout anyone wishes later in the week. CRC

19 years, 3 months

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