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101090 discussions

OT: Interesting website with Classic Computer feel

by james.rice＠gmail.com

On 3/18/07, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > > OK, this has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with Computers, it's actually > the web site of a Indie Band. However, it is interesting in that it > feels like an Apple ][. http://www.theraconteurs.com/ > > Zane > > > > - I found that one a few months ago. it's Jack White's new band. Cool site effects. i wish I had thought of it first. James -- www.blackcube.org - The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers

19 years, 3 months

Free to a good home

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

OK, word is out, I'm in Butler, PA. Anytime your in the area, email me, come see my stuff, DEC Alpha's, VAXes, IBM PS/2's, Old PC's, Imsai, Polymorthic and Sol 20. I'm not done, just beginning, I have PC software (DOS), Netware and other soft stuff + manuals. Dan

19 years, 3 months

govliq: 7 TS05 tape drives (Mechanicsburg, PA)

by legalize＠xmission.com

<http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=1162695&convertTo=USD> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 3 months

govliq: Tektronix 4041 disk drive unit (HD/FD) (Elmendorf, AK)

by legalize＠xmission.com

<http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=1161577&convertTo=USD> Looks like it contains a 10 MB hard drive and a 5.25" floppy drive. This connects to the Tektronix 4041 system controller, presumably the main interface is GPIB although the description says RS-232. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 3 months

govliq: 2 paper tape readers (Mechanicsburg, PA)

by legalize＠xmission.com

<http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=1161585&convertTo=USD> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 3 months

Gee, nobody has talked about the ASR33 in a while...

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

Well, as I reorganize and clean, I managed to sidetrack myself from the aforementioned cleaning by playing with my ASR33 TeleType. I have it working properly, and it prints and types correctly - although I have never managed to interface it to anything. I remember a year ago, trying some quickie kludge I found on the 'net, and having it not work. I am struggling to remember what I thought I used to know about TeleType interfaces. Correct me if I'm wrong: The teletype's serial output is compatible with RS232 at the protocol level, and since it's a 33, it's ASCII too. The TeleType is a passive device with a 20ma current loop interface. In order to work, it needs a loop current source (I had to use a 9v radio battery for testing) The signal levels, being 20ma current loop, are NOT compatible directly with RS232C. That being said, it's seemingly possible in some circumstances to interface the two with a diode and a resistor and have it work. In interfacing this thing, I basically want to be able to construct a simple device that 1) supplies loop current, 2) optically isolates the current loop from the RS232 host, and 3) provides proper RS232 signal levels (MAX232, what a wonderful little chip) so that I can connect it to whatever without worrying about blowing up the transceivers. I should be able to scrounge up some optoisolators, I know I have MAX232's and I should have no trouble constructing a simple, transformer based power supply to supply power for both the MAX232 and the loop current. But, I have forgotten some key elements, such as I don't know what an acceptable voltage is to supply the loops, and although I remember reading that the RX and TX used different amounts of juice, I don't remember the specs, and lastly - AC or DC loops? DC, right? What's an acceptable way to create loop current without driving something too hard or blowing something up? Also, my TeleType manual doesn't appear to have information on what screw terminals do what on the terminal strip at the back of the machine - I think I remember which ones were RX and which were TX, but I would like to be sure. It's late... I am bound to have something horribly wrong in my mind (and therefore in this post) right now. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! -Ian

19 years, 3 months

Free to a good home

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

Sorry, forgot to let everyone reading this post where I'm located, I am located in Butler, PA 16001 Dan Snyder

19 years, 3 months

Modern Marvels: Computers -- Can you identify these items?

by legalize＠xmission.com

I've put up a web page with some screen grabs from Modern Marvels: Computers and I'm wondering if anyone can help identify a few of the items of interest to me. There are links that take you to a web form for submitting info easily if you recognize the items... <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/vintage/mm_computers.html> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 3 months

Free to a good home

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

I have been trying to find good homes for some of my stuff, seems most people prefer to recycle for the metal and plastic. Classiccmp has been a place I watch from time to time, seems I'm always in the background.. So.. I would like to offer the following to the collectors who subscribe to this list. 1. Compaq portable, model 1, dual floppies, software and manuals. Excellent condition. 2. Apple PowerMac, I have to check the model, but has a DOS compatibility card. 3. Original IBM EGA monitor, needs repaired, but is in excellent condition. 4. Two IBM PS/2 Model 25's, fully functional, used at a local college. 5. One IBM PS/2 Model 30, fully functional. 6. Original IBM 83 key AT keyboard. I have other PS/2's 80's, 65, 70. I have to see which ones I have to find a new home for. PS/2 motherboards and hard drives. This is the tip of the iceberg as I really need to clear ALOT of stuff out, but do not want to see it scrapped when I do believe I can find some in the Classic Computer list who may need parts/systems. I am more of a user / collector of DEC stuff, microvax's, alpha station and servers. Send any questions / requests, I will try to answer all Dan Snyder

19 years, 3 months

ftp archives disappearing

by aek＠spies.com

> How are you doing on supplemental files, Developer materials, Programmer's > Workbench, etc.? I have limited email connectivity right now, which is why I haven't been commenting on the recent archiving discussions. Apple development tools are easily found in CD form, staring with "Phil and Dave's Excellent CD" I probably have a complete set, and I'm pretty sure CHM has one as well. Apple Developers CD's also show up on eBay. re: deposition of collections when you're gone contact the CHM registrar (allision akbay, akbay at computerhistory.org) and she can help setting up something if you would like to donate your collection to the Computer History Museum. I'm obviously biased, since I am responsible for their software collection, but I think that artifacts will be taken care of there.

19 years, 3 months

Free to a good home

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

I forgot to include three Centronics printers, models 779, 761 and 781. All are complete and I believe they powerup. I have the service manuals for the 779 and 761. These have been kept indoors in a clean environment since I retired them in the early 80's. I am located in Butler, PA 16001 Dan Snyder

19 years, 3 months

Goodwill Compter works (back on that topic, not bears, etc.)

by jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu

I was holding off comment on this, but today I found out that both of the Orange County Goodwill operations have been "reorganized" and new people are managing them. Luckily, it looks like the people who are in charge won't do anything out front, but there is no telling what the back operation is doing. I think one thing that is stressing goodwill and other thrift stores out here is the "recycling" operations that are picking up at the waste disposal centers here. about 15 or 20 years ago, a friend in Kansas City was a pioneer in the recycling of commercial equipment with the Surplus Exchange. Bruce Holland recognized that a lot of this was just stuff a bean counter wanted off the floor that he was renting and would give it to someone who carted it off. He began taking not just computers but everything not nailed down that an operation didn't want and distributed it to a network of charities for free inKC. In return most of their donations went to the Surplus exchange rather than being turned away. ANyway, now I see that the prices at goodwill for such as 500 to 700 to 1ghz systems is still at the $250 to $350 level, which is just too high. Also a lot of stuff is going to these recyclers, so they are loosing donations, I suspect. Anyway, as to collecting old computers there is probably not that much going to goodwill these days. I suspect most of what comes out are old pentiums, and P2's etc, and it would be pretty hard to get upset with them for loosing the odd old pile in all the stuff they have to deal with. As far as the original posting, from Jim Battle about Austin Goodwill. These operations are not set up to handle a lot of variety in their input. They have to move tons of excess every week, and simply don't have either the trained or sheltered workshop manpower to handle the odd stuff. They are primarily taking the profit the get from any sold donations to hire people with serious life issues, and they will not be spending any money to change their handling of anything, whether computers, antiques or whatever of any kind, but rather keep the basic flow of material going. Wish they could operate in a different way. Even worse, in a town which is the home town it is sad that there is no used computer or electronic surplus store with sufficient business and expertise to take your collectible and sell it, rather than a Goodwill thrift store. These operations are way more endangered now days than used book stores, my other favorite place to get lost in and browse. Ebay for all its flaws is pretty much where you get rid of strange junk these days, or recycle it, unless you are near some operation such as Gateway Electronics in St. Louis, Mo, or whatever similar operation may be around. jim

19 years, 3 months

Commodore's new PCs

by dm561＠torfree.net

Forwarding: >>> Georg Feil 15/3/2007 12:50 PM >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6454113.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6453339.stm very pretty...

19 years, 3 months

free for the cost of shipping, from Austin, Texas

by frustum＠pacbell.net

More spring cleaning. Item #1 ------------ For the past eight years I've been keeping a box that supposedly has a B&W CRT in it; it was given to me by a retiring engineer and TRS-80 enthusiast. I finally opened the box and confirmed there is a CRT of some kind it it, although whether or not it is for a trs-80 I haven't checked. I have no need for it; anybody willing to pay shipping on it can have it. It is in great shape and in fact, might be unused. It looks to be about 12" diagonal. There are a lot of different markings on the tube, and I'm not sure which is the most important; in fact, the layout of the markings is such that I can't always tell what goes with what, but I'll try my best: RCA Electron Tube 12VCLP4 Model No. 6 EIA 274 KTR131B Elsewhere it says EIA 1240. Item #2 --------------- I have a heathkit h89 carcas -- it has been stripped of most valuables, but it might have a few parts that someone needs to get their h89 going. Probably the two things that might be of most interest are the CRT and they keycaps. If you want either of those, or want me to check for any other bits on it (mounting brackets or whatever), let me know. It has no floppies and I was told that the electronics had been smoked via an unfortunate application of the wrong voltages. Still, if you want to take a chance, I could pull the cards and let you sort out what might have escaped unharmed.

19 years, 3 months

old terminals...

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

I think the keyboards were made up by putting keyswitches into a metal plate then wiring them up in row and column form. A ttl system scanned the rows and columns until it found a closed switch. The count was then equal to the value of the character. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: 16 March 2007 23:22 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: old terminals... > > Old terminals > > In the UK in the early 1970's I worked for a (then small) UK company > called Newbury Labs. FWIW, Newbury terminals were common at Cambridge University in the 1980s (but were being replaced by BBC micros running a terminal emoulator). I think they were around at other UK universities too. > We made VDU's or video terminals. The early types used eight bit > parallel shift registers as screen memory. > The model number was 2480 i.e. 24 Rows of 80 Characters. They came in > steel enclosures (painted blue!!) The screen was a 12" tube as used in > mono portable TV's. When I needed a replacement CRT for a Volker-Craig terminal (it has an APL cahracter set, which is why I was repairing it), the only way to get one was to buy a cheap protable TV and remove the CRT from it. Nobody stocked the CRT on its own. > We used to spend half an hour on each one fixing up the screen > geometry with small magnets. > > The newer ones used a crude stored program system made out of TTL ie > no Microprocessors. I have a Newbury terminal somwehre. I forget the model, but it's a later one with a separate keyboard linked up by a wide ribbon cable (I think the connections are just the row and column lines of a switch matrix, there's not much, if any, electronics in the keyboard). I've not been inside it for 20 years, but I thought there was a microproceossor in there. I do rememeber a board of TTL incluing some '181 ALUs, though. -tony

19 years, 3 months

ftp archives disappearing?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 11:24 PM 3/15/2007, Hex Star wrote: >This way I take some bandwidth, I give back some bandwidth, I take some >files, I give them back to someone else who wants it and that at the same >time also results in many other people being able to enjoy them as well. >Just because I don't have webspace or server to immediately host the files >does not mean that they will never be released for others to download enjoy, >it just means that it won't happen immediately but that it will happen in >the future whenever they're requested. If you don't have web or file server, how do you "give back"? What's your ratio of upload to download? - John

19 years, 3 months

Rack rails - standards?

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

I've been working on getting things cleaned up in the basement - and part of that involves putting these devices I have into racks. Unfortunately, the devices and the racks rarely find me at the same time, and as such, I wind up with devices with rails bolted to the side of them, and racks with no rails. But, since rails consist of two parts, the rails on the devices are useless, since I don't have the mating rails. I want to rack up a Cipher drive, and my newly accquired Fujitsu Eagle, and I also have a shelf meant for two CDC sabre drives, that will work to hold another CDC drive I have (non sabre, the older one, 9" platters), it should hold the weight. But, none of the rails I have match up, and the CDC shelf uses a special bracket. I have a couple modern PC clone and Sun servers with full railsets, and I tried borrowing rails from them, but of course the holes don't line up with the holes in the devices. And the Dell rails might have worked if they were meant to mount to a standard rack - I have no idea what this square clip/hole thing is supposed to mate with. So, basically, is there a standard for these things at all? Any hole spacing or rail size standard, or did every manufacurere just make their own? On the two Cipher drives I have, the same model, have totally different rails. So that would suggest that there was at least a device bolt hole standard at one point. But, I am sure this is going to be another case of how wonderful standards are - there are so many to choose from... Is there some designation I should look for when hunting rack rails on eBay? The modern rails don't seem to line up with the device holes at all - are there differnt classes or rails for different weights, or am I just lookig too far into this? -Ian

19 years, 3 months

ftp archives disappearing?

by dm561＠torfree.net

--------Original Message: Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 07:48:41 -0400 From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> Subject: Re: ftp archives disappearing? <snip> .... >I'm just an intolerant pain in the ass .... ---------------------------------- At last, something we can agree on... m

19 years, 3 months

Sorta OT: Good Win9x Telnet server

by cclist＠sydex.com

I know that Windows 9x is a terrible kludgy beast, but I'm looking for a good telnet server to run on a Win9x box. Any suggestions? The ones I've tried usually have such a long character echo turnaround that using them is excruciating. The reason I'm doing this because I'm fooling around at the port level with an ISA card that I'm still trying to figure out. On one system, I'm doing my head-scratching; on the Win9x box, I actually have the card and am doing I/O port fiddling via DEBUG over telnet. If I crash the Win9x box, no biggie--just hit reset. If this doesn't work, I suppose that I can run a terminal emulator on the first box and just boot DOS and ctty to COM1 and hook the two boxes together via RS-232C. But using a serial terminal with MS-DOS does have its own problems. What I'm using now is TelnetXQ from DataWizard on an old PR300 box running 98SE. Suggestions welcome. Cheers, Chuck

19 years, 3 months

ftp archives disappearing?

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Dave McGuire wrote: Yes, most definitely, I agree. The manufacturer, then, needs to keep their definition of "obsolete" to themselves. If I hear "You fool, why are you using that old thing, it's obsolete!" from its manufacturer, it almost definitely translates to "You know, I work on commission, and I'd really like to make a sale today." [snip] No, you misunderstand my position, or I have misrepresented it. The point I was trying to make was about the notion of "forced obsolescence". If the manufacturer stops selling something long before demand runs out, and doesn't release something substantially better in its place, then THAT is a problem. [snip] It simply boils down to "who says it's obsolete". If it's the manufacturer, and the user disagrees, I see that as a huge problem...especially if there is pressure involved, which there frequently is. I guarantee you the 20-something vendor rep with the power tie and the slicked-back hair who just showed up in your building is NOT standing there worried about whether or not you're on the cutting edge of technology or whether he makes your job easier. THAT is where "forced obsolescence" comes from. It is fake, a lie, and needs to be recognized and ignored when encountered. That is, unless one actually enjoys being bilked for every last dime and having an equipment turnover interval measured in months. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL Billy responds: You seem to have a very harsh viewpoint of the manufacturers. I have to protest your first statement that the manufacturers should keep their definition to themselves. Why? They have as much right to stating facts as you do. Your definition of obsolete is not the only one, we both agree. So why can't other people express their definition? The other points you make seem to be in the class of the manufacturers are a bunch of crooks out to bilk their customers. (I've never heard an OEM call a customer a "fool".) How about the benefit of the doubt here - that they are business men trying to make a profit for their employees and stock holders. If a product, no matter how good, can no longer be made profitably, they do not have an obligation to continue to produce it. And if the market has shrunk, there may be no follow on product even though a few users still need it or a similar product. Forced obsolescence is NOT always a fake and a lie. There are usually very valid reasons for it that have nothing to do with bilking customers. It costs a lot of money to develop and roll out new products. But the reality is that consumers are fickle. They demand change, they demand the new. If a company sticks with its mature established products and foregoes development, it usually dies. In my field, disk drives, we would absolutely love to keep making 9GB or better yet, 100MB drives. They would be easy to build, not cost any R&D, overhead would be zip. Problem is no one would buy them. The model turnover measured in months is hell to keep up with; we would love to go slower. But all our competitors who slowed down went out of business. Most recently Maxtor and Cornice; Hitachi is bleeding money right now and may be next. We don't have the luxury of waiting until demand runs out. If demand falls below the profit level, forced obsolescence is the only way to survive. I think you are missing something unique to the electronics industry: the customers expect constant price cuts. Demand may still be strong, but at a price level where the product is not profitable. Most electronic products have a very low profit level, usually 2-5%. It's rough to stay alive. Think about it - in actual dollar amounts, TV sets sell for about the same as they did in the '50s. But cars, houses, clothes, energy, food have all been victims of inflation. Compare the current prices of computers to 5, 10, 15 years ago. People demand electronics to constantly get cheaper. So if a manufacturer wants to meet this demand, he has to find ways to cut costs. A legitimate tool often used is to come out with new models (lower cost) and make obsolete the current product that can no longer be sold profitably. You expect the lower costs - a current 320GB drive costs a fraction of the cost of the 8" floppies when they were new. And the dollar has inflated and lost buying power since then. If the consumer won't pay a profitable price for a mature product, why should a manufacturer be expected to continue to build it? >From my viewpoint, planned obsolescence is necessary to meet the outrageous demands of the consumer. This is the only marketplace I know where the buyers absolutely demand products get cheaper while having more capabilities. If you applied the price/value curve of electronics to cars, a new car would be in the $5-10 range. And everyone on this list would still be able to buy nickel glasses of beer. Billy

19 years, 3 months

EISA problems

by teoz＠neo.rr.com

The other day I received a 2MB ATI Graphics Ultra Pro video card from a seller on ebay (one of the best 2MB EISA video cards that works with OS/2). My current system is a 486DX50 with a 1MB S3 based EISA video card. When I removed the S3 card and Installed the ATI one the machine would not boot, just beeped. I checked the jumper settings on the ATI to make sure it was VGA enabled and then tried setting the address for the card and still nothing. I put the old S3 in and all was fine. Now my problem is I get a EISA Inoperable message even with the s3 video card, the EISA configuration software I have finds the cards installed but gets a write error when trying to write the configuration to the battery backed chip (Dallas DS1225Y-200). So basically I can only boot to floppy (I have an ISA I/O card with floppy connected), while my 9GB HD connected to the EISA Adaptec card does not show up. Has my Dallas chips battery finally died on me (I had to replace the other Dallas RTC chip when I purchased the board last year, it still keeps time fine)? Did my installing of the ATI damage the Dallas chip by chance? Did I get a defective video card? I need to figure out what's up before I buy another EISA backup chip $15 and wreck it, and decide what to do about the ATI from ebay. Any ideas?

19 years, 3 months

old terminals...

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Old terminals In the UK in the early 1970's I worked for a (then small) UK company called Newbury Labs. We made VDU's or video terminals. The early types used eight bit parallel shift registers as screen memory. The model number was 2480 i.e. 24 Rows of 80 Characters. They came in steel enclosures (painted blue!!) The screen was a 12" tube as used in mono portable TV's. We used to spend half an hour on each one fixing up the screen geometry with small magnets. The newer ones used a crude stored program system made out of TTL ie no Microprocessors. Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard Sent: 16 March 2007 00:28 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: old terminals... In article <45F8EAD6.9070607 at jetnet.ab.ca>, woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> writes: > Richard wrote: > > > The weirder terminals don't use a CPU at all. They use SSI/MSI TTL > > logic. > > I thought the weird ones used Delay lines and/or Core Memory. No, those aren't the weird ones. Those are the unobtainable ones. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 3 months

teletype model 43 value

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

The teletype model 43 appears much more often on Ebay than the ASR33 (which I've never seen there). Is there anything about the model 43 to make it worth acquiring? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

19 years, 3 months

DEC ROMs [was Re: old terminals...]

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

On 3/16/07, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> wrote: > >>> Do you think it'd be a good idea for me to, over time, pull them out > >>> and read their ROMs for archival or reconstructive purposes? > >> > >> I'd be happy to host images not already > >> there. See particularly the "Wanted!" list in that directory :-) > > > > Oh my, well that saves me a lot of case-cracking! :) I will see if I > > can add a few to your archive. > > Great! Contributions are welcome :-) > Is there already a non-DEC controller firmware archive somewhere? If not, do you have any interest in adding relevant non-DEC controller firmware? For example I've had an Emulex QD21 Q-bus ESDI controller for a while that was dead. I recently pulled and read the EPROM and found it appeared to be almost completely erased. I eventually got another working QD21 and copied its EPROM into the dead one and now it works fine too. I would have been out of luck with the dead one if I couldn't find a good firmware image for it. -Glen

19 years, 3 months

Anyone seen Fred van Kempen?

by gtoal＠gtoal.com

I've run out of address to try for Fred van Kempen... does anyone have an idea where he is nowadays? I know he dropped off the net once before, and I'm afraid he may have done so again. Unfortunately he has an old PDP11 disk of ours and I need to talk to him to decide what to do about it. Email me his current address please, or pass on to him that I'm trying to contact him please, if you're in touch with him. Thanks Graham Toal (Edinburgh Computer History Project) <gtoal at gtoal.com>

19 years, 3 months

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test-drb