test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by dm561＠torfree.net

Does anybody have a current email address for Don in Tucson, apparently no longer at THX1138 at dakotacom.net (or are you reading this, Don?) mike

19 years, 3 months

Chuck Guzis

by dm561＠torfree.net

Chuck: Tried to send you an email off-list at cclist at sydex but got rejected as spam; have you got another address where I could reach you? mike

19 years, 3 months

some old stuff

by andrew＠taswegian.com

Hey all I've been in and out of the classic computer collecting 'circles' over the past decade and a half, but these days don't have much time to play with the old toys. I thought I'd divest myself of some of the items that I've been collecting and though I wasn't sure if it were appropriate to advertise 'for sale' on the list, it's probably OK to let people know that I have these items and that I'll be happy to provide pictures and/or information for historical reasons. If you are interested in trade/sale discussion please contact me privately (andrew - at - taswegian.com). General questions about functionality/history can go to the list. I have a DataNumerics DL-8A. This is possibly the only one still alive, certainly the only one I've heard of in a decade+ in collectors' hands. It's a front-panel machine very much like an early Altair - lots of blinking lights. Very nice visuals, and appears to work perfectly - I fire it up every year or so. Inside it's an 8080, I think - haven't had it open for a while. Totally wirewrapped, quite neatly made. and with a low serial number in the 20s, from memory. I'll be happy to do images and/or provide additional information as requested. I also have a Dulmont Magnum with original manual. This is one of the very first laptops, comes with a fold-up 4-line LCD display. I haven't had this one working, nor have I tried. I'd be guessing to say it was functional, but there are no obvious issues like battery damage, etc. Weighs a ton, but for its day it was no doubt a portable marvel. I do have an extensive collection of early Soviet calculators and handheld computers. I collected most of these in the mid to late '90s when building my site Museum of Soviet Calculators - http://www.taswegian.com/MOSCOW/soviet.html . The collection includes a prototype or two, including one of the only two known MK-98 machines. The collection as a whole (100 machines?), but not individually is available for trade/sale. Finally, I have a very interesting homebrew machine built by a fairly well known Australian electrical wizard of the '70s and '80s, who published many articles in the aussie electronics magazines. This particular machine was a Signetics 2650 machine, but configured to run 8080 code (and hence, CP/M) through a software emulator. The whole machine, including the video card, was designed and built by the one guy and can be considered historical and one-of-a-kind. That's about it, really. If anyone would like pictures and/or further information on these just ask. Cheers A

19 years, 3 months

beware: "Microsoft BASIC" paper tape on eBay

by frustum＠pacbell.net

I'm away from home right now so I can't check, but the "5K BASIC" was really about 6.5K. I imagine 5K was what their target was and what the advertised and presold it as while it was still under development. Even though it ballooned to 6.5K by the time they were done, they kept calling it 5K BASIC. Extended cassette BASIC was close to 16KB. Besides adding string support, it also has the "MAT" statement set and a bunch of other features. Nevertheless, it seemed pretty big for its feature set. So, I'd agree with Al, this is probably 5K BASIC. ----- Original Message ---- From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:46:24 PM Subject: beware: "Microsoft BASIC" paper tape on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230107368051 You can read the first dozen bytes in the picture, which are 7 bit ASCII, starting with 1010000 1010010 1001111 "PROCESSOR TECHNOLOGY BASIC" most likely 4K Proc Tech BASIC, given the tape length.. Jim B. could probably confirm that.

19 years, 3 months

single transistor projects?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: single transistor projects? > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:28:29 -0700 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Tony Duell wrote: > >> >> These days, you can get 9V (PP3, 006P, 6F22, whatever you call them) >> batteries very cheaply in the 'Everything's a pound' shops (I assume you >> have similar shops that sell all sorts of things for a dollar a time). 5 >> to 10 of those in series will work as B battery, of couse. > >Well you can still buy a B battery here on this side of the pond. >http://www.tubesandmore.com/ Its way OT but I run a RCA tube portable off 10 9V and 4 "C" cells and it's very satisfactory. I took the old battery skin (cardboard label) and made a wood box inside of it to hold the batteries so it even looks like the real thing. Besides being the best AM broadcast radio I have it's an attention getter. Runs for about 20 hours on alkaline C cells and the 10 9V batteries usually outlast 3 to 4 sets of C cells. >> Personally, I'd use a mains supply. a 30V transformer (15-0-15, ignoring >> the centre tape or a pair of 15V windings in series) feeding a voltage >> doubler rectifier (2 diodes, 2 capacitors) will give about 85V, ideal for >> most 'battery' valve circuits. > >They also sell a power pack kit too for small radios. >I suspect if you dig around over there you can scounge up >a better power supply, for the simple reason parts are whole >lot cheaper now than in one's youth. I have a PS I did using power mosfets and a tapewound toroid I wound up. Full wave bridge and filter. Also it's adjustable and regulated from 80 to 200V which makes it ideal for small tube projects (power limit is ~40W). Allison

19 years, 3 months

single transistor projects?

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:12:40 -0700 > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Subject: Re: single transistor projects? > > William Blair wrote: > > > Is this it?: > TINY URL: > > > 125 One-Transistor Projects (1970) > > http://tinyurl.com/2fzqhm > > BIG URL: > http://www.somerset.net/arm/fm_only_one_transistor_radio.html > http://www.somerset.net/arm/fm_only_lowtech.html Wasn't the original poster asking about a book on one-transistor projects that he used back in the late 60s? I don't get the TINY URL, BIG URL humor (if any was intended). Wm Blair ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather

19 years, 3 months

IBM PS/2 Model 25

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

Still cleaning out... up for relocation: 1 IBM PS/2 Model 25, completely functional. Boots to DOS, has WordPerfect 5.1, 640K ram, 20Meg hard drive. What a head trip waiting for it to boot and then listening to the HD access, retro.. Dan @ Butler, PA

19 years, 3 months

BA23 setup and DZQ11 configuration

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

On 3/20/07, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > You might want to keep your eye out for a 3rd > party disk controller with the bootstrap built in. That's a good point. I have more than one Emulex QD21, a Dilog DQ696, and a Sigma RDQ11, which are all Q-bus ESDI controllers and they all have firmware with boot and built-in formatting support. They were much cheaper on eBay than Q-bus SCSI controllers, although SCSI drives are basically free and you'll pay something for an ESDI drive, but not as much as for a large working MFM drive. Another plus of a SCSI controller is that you might be able to use it to boot a SCSI CD-ROM. I have that working with a Dilog SQ706A SCSI controller and a Plextor SCSI CD-ROM in my 11/73. But if you do have a working RQDX3 and working RD drives it's probably still cheaper to get a board you can put a boot ROM on. That's an exercise I haven't gone through myself, yet. -Glen

19 years, 3 months

IBM PS/2 Model 30

by ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net

Another machine for whoever wants it. It's an IBM PS/2 Model 30, complete with DOS and 20Meg hard drive. I powered up the machine and was greeted with a classic DOS menu showing games and WordPerfect 5.1 available to use. This machine is in excellent condition, been stored inside. Dan @ Butler, PA 16001

19 years, 3 months

Hex Keypad

by doug＠stillhq.com

On the subject of Blinken lights and toggle switches, I have had difficulties finding decent mechanical keyswitches to use for projects. Essentially, I need to make a hex keypad, with a couple of extra function keys. I know that now we would simply get a membrane rubber thing made up, but once upon a time, I would purchase 20 mechanical switches, and solder them to veroboard. Sadly, I can't find a source of these switches any more..... Same applies to ACSII keyboards - I am fully aware that I could get a PC keyboard and a microcontroller and have ASCI out - but that is 'yet another pc keyboard' Any ideas? Doug

19 years, 3 months

John Backus passes away...

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > > On 21 Mar 2007 at 12:12, Roger Holmes wrote: > >> I used Fortran 4 on the IBM 7094 at Imperial College London. I >> remember one day the compiler reported: > > I used FORTRAN II under FMS II on the 7090 but never saw a FORTRAN IV > implementation there. It's been entirely too long ago, but, as I > recall, one punched a "B" in column 1 for boolean expressions, "D" > for double-precision and "I" for complex, as FORTRAN II still relied > on implicit typing for variables. > > One of the most diagnostic-bald versions of FORTRAN I ever used was > the "USA BASIC FORTRAN" under DOS/360. The thing couldn't have had > more than about 10 diagnostic messages, most of them single-word. One of my bosses at Marconi Avionics thought that compilers should only have one error message because as a compiler cannot find all errors (such as a mistyped number), you should not rely on it to find errors in your programs. You should only ever submit 100% correct code to the compiler. I think he worked on the Jaguar aircraft's flight program, so there is some justification in that field where a software error could cause a fast jet to take out a street or two of a city. >> I was used to syntax error messages by the dozen but this was the >> first time I had seen the compiler correct an error and run the >> job. Of >> course we are used to warnings now, but I think it was that one >> which >> got me interested enough in compilers to eventually get a job >> writing >> them. > > Pat could probably fill in details here, but Purdue for many years > used 7090/94's to run a student variant of FORTRAN called PUFFT. The > basic idea was for the compiler to 'fix" as many errors as possible > so that a program would run somehow. I believe it was described by > Saul Rosen in an ACM paper and republished in one of those > "Programming Languages Survey" books. IIRC, the 709x were also used > as I/O front ends for the CDC 6600 there, which ran Purdue's own > variant of MACE, rather than the more-or-less standard SCOPE. Greg > Mansfield was pretty proud of that. It was indeed PUFFT that I used, around 1969 when I was a schoolboy. >> If you stuck to floating point and small numbers but there were big >> problems with word length variations when using integers. > > IIRC, the 32-bit floating point word (with 4-bit normalization > granularity) of S/360 cost IBM a bunch of business in the > "scientific" world. It had one of the lowest-precision FP > representation of big iron at the time. I believe that IBM > eventually remedied this with "extended precision". Interesting. I guess that's why, after the 7094, the University of London used no(?) IBMs, just CDC and ICL machines until minis came along. >> I seem to remember that some of the people who taught me to program >> considered Fortran to be too close to the 7094 instruction set, in >> particular they said the computed goto mapped directly onto a 7094 >> instruction and >> hence considered it to be not very universal, and to support it >> would be to >> assist IBM in its domination of the computer market. > > That must have been some clever propganda on the part of someone! > But conspiracy theories have always been popular. Computed GOTOs > weren't exactly the dominant feature of most programs--and they were > implemented as simple indexed jumps for the most part--a feature > scarcely unique to IBM hardware! > > For small systems, FORTRAN was amazingly useful. The other day, I > ran across some code that I wrote for CP/M to convert between ISIS-II > and CP/M file formats--in FORTRAN. > > Compiler design has come a long way since. In the 1970's, I recall > that a co-worker pushed a PTR in front of my face that was, frankly, > quite surprising. CDC FTN for years allowed an alternative way of > expressing Hollerith constants using any arbitrary delimiter > character, so 5HCHUCK and H*CHUCK* were equivalent ways of expressing > the same constant. Most people used asterisks or the not-equal > symbol (the standard character set didn't have quotation marks), but > the compiler would allow just about anything. > > The statement in question looked something like this: > > 100 FORMAT( HX)=(1+BX ) > > Recall, that prior to FORTRAN 90, FORTRAN had no reserved words. Yes that does look weird at first sight. Probably later version of Fortran were better, but version 4 was just so restrictive, after using Algol's For..Step..Until..Do.. with expressions, I could not really go back to Fortran IV's for statements with single, simple unsigned integer constants for the start, end and step values. Roger.

19 years, 3 months

software (actually anything classic computer related) directory

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Some mention has been made on the list with regards to a "global" list of classic computer related artifacts, be those documents (manuals), software bits, other historical ephemera, etc. The concept I've been working with is defining a standard record format for interchange amongst those that wish to participate. Think of this as something like ANSI X.12 (Electronic Data Interchange). Each site who wants to participate would (in an automated fashion) periodically (nightly?) run a program or process that takes data about their collection items and puts it into this standard record format. The format has things like document name, title, description, document type, owner site, http vs. ftp, URL, FTP address, email contact, date, key words, categories, distribution allowed, etc. For example, a program could pretty easily be created that would take all the documents on bitsavers and puts them into this standard record format. Then the source systems send this record dump (or deltas from a previous dump) to the classiccmp server. The classiccmp server takes all these records from all the various sites and puts them together into a single database internally, and also provides a seamless mechanism (http, and yes... gopher, archie?) for people to search the database or browse based on given criteria. It looks like one database. But when a user tries to pull up one of the specific entries it is actually redirected to the sponsoring systems server to get the data. This way each system can keep their classic data (jpegs, pdfs, disk images, whatever) in the format they are already using without changing anything. They just need to have something that takes their format/sources and puts it into the standard format which is then sync'd to classiccmp.org. Provisions could be made to the standard record format to address all types of media, allow some items to be listed as "present" but "unavailable" for things that can't be released due to copyright issues (but at least people would know it had been preserved). I'd be happy to start a separate mailing list to discuss this record format, and if people are interested in participating. I'd hate to chew up cctalk/cctech bandwidth discussing project design :) Jay

19 years, 3 months

Anyone have a KDJ11-B or MXV11-B for trade

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

Does anyone on the list have a KDJ11-B CPU or an MXV11-B module for trade. if so, what are you looking for in return? Thanks, David Betz

19 years, 3 months

Crossbar and NeWS questions

by blstuart＠bellsouth.net

Brent Hilpert wrote: > Scott Quinn wrote: > > > > (1) What is the history of the crossbar in computer architectures as a > > mainbus replacement? > > I recall reading an article in Annals of the History of Computing about a > late 60's era mainframe in which memory and multiple processors were > connected via some sort of crossbar/matrix switching arrangement. > I think it was a Burroughs machine but my memory could be wrong on that even. CMU did a parallel machine like that using PDP-11/40s. They used 16 machines and 16 memory banks. It was called C.mmp. I think for me, reconstructing that would be the ultimate in classic geek. Also, while I haven't watched all that carefully, I'm sure there are others who have also used crossbars to route inter-processor communication. I even messed around with that approach a little. BLS

19 years, 3 months

computercollectables.blogspot.com comments welcome

by caveguy＠sbcglobal.net

WAS: Don Maslin/Archiving system software >Any thoughts yet about how to organize it? >mike In answer to mikes question... Yes and on a lot of levels ... BUT I am in full agreement with Jay that it is OT for this list and further discussion it does not belong on the cclist at this point in time. So I have place my reply and some thoughts on the subject in a seperate Blog. http://computercollectables.blogspot.com/ I invite others to come and comment on mine mutterings or create a free blog of their own, on this or any other computer, collector, collection, or collectable related subject. I like the idea that Blogs on related subjects can be cross linked using comments to form a better overall picture of the challenges involved in building everyones collection and archive management solution. Sorry Jay for the additional waste of bandwidth ;-) Please comment directly or in/on the blog NOT here on this list! Back under my rock.... Bob Bradlee

19 years, 3 months

Various DEC bits available in the UK, you pay shipping to wherever

by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Folks, My local favourite DEC reseller has the following heading for the scrapper unless someone pipes up: 8 or 9 Alpha 3000-300LX with RAM, working when pulled 10+ DEREPs VAX 3800 cabinet, no cards R400X cabinet, no disks 5+ VXT2000 x-terms, base unit only 5+ VXT2000+ x-terms, base unit only They've been stored outside for a month so they've had a good wash in the british winter, but they'll be fine once dried. You pay packing/shipping, I'm happy to box up and send to wherever, there's palletising facilities at work. Caveat is, the stuff will probably be heading to the recycler in a week's time so speak up now. Cheers, -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer collection?

19 years, 3 months

AIM65 (was Why blinkenlights ?)

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:49:13 -0700 From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Why blinkenlights ? M H Stein wrote: >> --------------- >> I don't think that's the kind of micro he meant; my AIM65s had a >> full keyboard and alphanumeric display in '79 (AND an onboard >> PRINTER!) >Did the AIM65's run any software? >The Z80 was a S-100 design, but the lack of a good >power supply was my problem. ------------------- Well, unlike the Altair, a computer that didn't run any software wouldn't have sold very well in 1979; what do you call software, and how much'll you let me expand it? They did have BASIC, Forth and PL/65 (and an assembler of course), Serial I/O and two expansion busses, but although you could connect a terminal and disk drives I think CP/M would be a bit of a challenge... wouldn't want to run a Fortune 500's accounting on it and end up like the Enron & Worldcom boys (and our very own Lord Black of Crossharbour, presently starring in Chicago ;-). But being (AC-powered) portable with a full keyboard and an integral 20 or 40 column display & printer, there were quite a few applications for them on their own (e.g. insurance agents used them on the road, later moving to the more or less functionally equivalent but smaller Panasonic HHC). They were also used a fair bit in the lab & industrial area. m

19 years, 3 months

Early WLAN

by steve＠radiorobots.com

Hi All, Looking for documentation on early WLAN. Specifically, WinData, SpectraLink, and WaveRider. Any comments or info appreciated Steve

19 years, 3 months

nice Q-bus microvax on ebay

by legalize＠xmission.com

Item # 250096417081 -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 3 months

Hosting and Bandwidth [was] .......

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>> Well for me I want to know just what I can download off a bitsavers >> mirror. > Overall that's up to Al, but each mirror may have some preferences as well. I have to compose a much longer post about everything discussed in the past week while I was gone. I did want to say thank you to Jay for supporting the main bitsavers archive site, and that I support whatever he would like to do to continue hosting it. I am a believer in preservation through replication, which is why there are public mirrors of the material. More thoughts as I finish going through everything discussed while I was gone.

19 years, 3 months

BA23 setup and DZQ11 configuration

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: BA23 setup and DZQ11 configuration > From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:18:57 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 3/21/07, Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: >> I wrote >> > Dave has nowhere to stuff a ROM. The KDJ11-A board is dual-height and >> > is a CPU only >> >> I'm using a KDJ11A and it boots RX02/RL02/MSCP devices with the right >> jumper setup. If memory serves the dual width J11 baord has rom on baord >> for standard device boot. My Docs for that board are burried. > >I think you must have your boot ROM on another board in your system... > >http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardwar… > >-ethan It's possible since I configured that system nearly 10 years ago and it hasn't been opened since save for cleaning the fans. The only board that could have a boot rom would be the RQDX3. I'll have to check net time I clean the fans. Allison

19 years, 3 months

KDJ11-A info location on net

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Rather than dig out the manual I found this for the KDJ11-A.. http://hampage.hu/dr/kdj11a.html#jumpers Hope it helps. Allison

19 years, 3 months

BA23 setup and DZQ11 configuration

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: BA23 setup and DZQ11 configuration > From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:33:10 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 3/21/07, Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > Either that or a trade of a KDJ11-BB or maybe -BF >> > for my KDJ11-AA and some other stuff? >> >> Can't you just burn a boot ROM and put it on the CPU >> board? I was under the impression you could. If so, I >> have an EPROM burner and can burn an EPROM if you >> want. > >Dave has nowhere to stuff a ROM. The KDJ11-A board is dual-height and >is a CPU only, no peripherals (yes, in the mini-computer world, boot >ROMs aren't always integral - if you have a front panel, you don't >"need" ROMs, even if they are handy for fast startup). I'm using a KDJ11A and it boots RX02/RL02/MSCP devices with the right jumper setup. If memory serves the dual width J11 baord has rom on baord for standard device boot. My Docs for that board are burried. Allison

19 years, 3 months

Hosting and Bandwidth [was] .......

by fsmith＠ladylinux.com

On Wednesday 21 March 2007 12:23:14 am Francesca Smith wrote: Hiya, Not to interject myself into this conversation. But I will :-) But I went to bitsavers and looked high and low and did not see anything that indicated they were perhaps looking for funding for their efforts. Now while what they do is Noble and all. One can not eat a Noble since I heard they are kinda tough and chewy. In any case perhaps people just need to be able to have a way to contribute towards these fine endeavors. ?? -- Kindest Regards, Francesca Smith "No Problems Only Solutions" Lady Linux Internet Services Baltimore, Maryland 21217

19 years, 3 months

MSC/Xebec HD controller "geekpron" pix available

by onymouse＠garlic.com

I dug deep into the catacombs this past weekend and discovered some interesting ancient relics. Among them I found sound remnants of two Microcomputer Systems Corp/Xebec hard disk controllers that were recently mentioned and took some close-up shots of them. One is a single-board ST506 disk controller with GPIB interface, PCB assy# 104506 Rev 02, without the 8048 and EPROM. Front and back shots, JPEGs of 380 to 309Kb each. Much better resolution than the manuals show: Can see part numbers on most IC's, see where jumpers go and read color bands on resistors and chokes. Shot in daytime shade, no flash to reduce reflections and glare. Contrast is a bit low. The other is a 3 board assembly that might be a SASI controller with GPIB interface, sans 8048, EPROM and 9914. There are shots of front and back of each of the three boards and a shot of the three assembled. JPEGs of 360 to 380Kb each. Shot in daytime shade, no flash to reduce reflections and glare. I suspect that someone might find them useful or at least interesting to look at but I have no place to put them at the moment. If someone is interested in them, please do let me know. It would probably be best to ftp them to you, as I doubt they are small enough for mail. -- jd If you keep anything long enough, you can throw it away.

19 years, 3 months

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