test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

Dreaming of a lean installation method [was Re: *nix on

by jvdg＠sparcpark.net

Dave McGuire wrote: > For the rest...*Someone* has to make the ruling, preferably > leaning to the "not part of the OS" side more often than not, and the > people who want everything handed to them on a platter will just need > to bite the bullet and learn how to type "./configure;make;make > install"...or go run another OS. Hear, hear. ,xtG tsooJ

19 years, 2 months

MCM66128L20

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: The "half good" memory dates back long before 256K chips--it goes all the way back to 16K ones. I've got a batch of Intel 2109s that differ from each other by a suffix -1 or -2. The idea is that the suffix indicates which half is good; otherwise the chips are electrically the same. I remember when the local Intel sales guy dropped off a bag of the things on my desk and I sorted through them and found a batch where all 16K worked in my application. Cheers, Chuck ------ Billy: Actually it goes back further than that. Intersil offered the 6002 (a 2K Dynamic RAM) with options of 1K good. I never saw it on smaller chips like the 256 byte or the 1K. But it would not surprise me. This was the era when a new state of the art memory chip was $15-20 each and in very short supply. A half good part could be very useful in a terminal or small system. By small, I mean 4K or 8K bytes, typical of many memory boards available in the early 1970's. Billy

19 years, 2 months

8-bit ISA SCSI cards?

by GaryDFisher＠shaw.ca

On Wed Apr 11 00:44:13 CDT 2007 Ethan Dicks ethan.dicks at gmail.com wrote >Are there any 'gotchas' with the ARS-2000IU? > Max drive size? > Strange SCSI packet issues? > Will it work with really old SCSI implementations? >Really new ones? 1. I haven't seen any gotchas yet, I've tried it with smaller 1gb-10 gb IDE drives no prob. as I said before I needed the new bios to ecognize the CF card to IDE converter. 2. I haven't tried a big drive >128mb as I don't have any spare ones that big, but I'm getting one in this weekend and I'll try it out and report. 3. No glitches with the SCSI at all (as far as I can tell) 4. I've tried it with several Adaptec cards right throiugh to some newer PCI ones and no glitches so far. I just got in an Acard AEC-7720U that I'm going to replace the bigger ARS-2000. I had one before and it worked OK until I reversed the power supply and fried it. Yea, I know that shouldn't be possible as it uses a standard floppy power connector, but I broke off the plastic tab and guessed wrong the next time. It seems to have the same chipset so it should work the same as the ARS-2000. I'll be putting it into the 5155 in the next few days. If anything goes wrong, I'll post the results. The AEC-7720U's are going for about $30 on eBay right now (two vendors seem to have a big stock of them), they are the best deal IMO. This was a message from Gary Fisher

19 years, 2 months

TACCS / CTOS I / BTOS / UNISYS / 10186

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I picked up one of the terminal units for the Computer Museum and just took at look at whats inside. It is a repackaged Burroughs B25, which is, as you noted, a Convergent 80186 system. I'd be interested in seeing pics of the insides of the main server unit. Convergent OEMed this stuff to lots of people. I think the Microdata 1000 may be one as well. I found one of a five disc set today for what appears to be CTOS rel 9.1-D for the 1000.

19 years, 2 months

TU-58s (was Re: Some progress with my PDP-11/73 system)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 4/11/07, Jerome H. Fine <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote: > But I once had a project that > used a real DEC TU-58. Not the fastest "random" > access device!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They work better as "sequential" access devices - being long and thin and travelling in one dimension, go figure. We used to optimize file order on our console TU58s to speed up the boot times on our 11/725s and 11/730s. Since the file order doesn't change, one just builds a TU58 with EXCHANGE with each file following the other. The console's 8-bit-micro must cache the directory block, since the tape didn't whip back to the start between each file. Using unaltered console tapes from DEC resulted in, IIRC, about 15 minutes from turning the key to booting the hard disk. Replacing that tape with one of our own devising shortened that pre-boot time to well under 3 minutes. I'd hate to rely on a TU-58 and no other block-addressable media on a PDP-11, though. I survived a PDP-8 with a TD8E and TU56, but it was somewhat tedious (cool to watch, though). TU-58s weren't as cool, IMHO. -ethan

19 years, 2 months

Apple IIc on Craig's in Montreal

by joachim.thiemann＠gmail.com

I have no connection to the seller other than living in the same city - and I don't collect Apple ][ computers, but I figured someone here might appreciate the heads-up. Looks like a IIc: http://montreal.craigslist.org/sys/309660731.html Though I am tempted to ask how much he wants just to play with it for a few days and then pass it on to someone else... but I have other things to keep me occupied (1581! Yay!) and I know nothing about Apple 8-bits... Joe.

19 years, 2 months

Turbodos on a Horizon 8/16 system

by frustum＠pacbell.net

This email is short on questions; just a vintage computer putzing report. I do have one question of opinion at the end. I've had a northstar horizon 8/16 system for a year and a half now, but I was able to finally get everything together and a bit of time to get it running. The 8/16 is a normal horizon (in the aluminum cabinet, not wooden), with a beefier power supply. There may be some other mechanical differences, such as many more punchouts in the back. The purpose of the system is to host multiple CPUs running in a S-100 backplane, each with its own local memory, using the Z80 down on the motherboard to act as a server for the shared resources. As the 8/16 name implies, you can have 8b (z80) or 16b (8086) CPUs, or a mix of them. Mine has two Z80 cards, each with 64KB DRAM, in addition to the Z80 on the motherboard and 64KB DRAM that is uses on the S-100 BUS. The box has a single 5.25" floppy and a 30 MB Rodime hard drive (ST506 type interface). The way things are set up in the horizon, you can't boot directly off the hard drive; the usual procedure is to boot the floppy, and the floppy contains a bootstrap to load the OS from the hard disk. I first booted into HDOS from floppy, the hard disk version of NSDOS. It has both non-destructive and destructive disk tests. "LI" shows that there is no meaningful HDOS file system on the drive. Next, I ran only the non-destructive test since one goal is to see what is on the hard disk. HDOS, like NSDOS, has a command for reading arbitrary absolute sectors from the floppy, but it isn't supported on the hard drive -- instead you can load sectors relative to a named file, which doesn't help me here. Next I booted turbodos from floppy. "DIR" shows no meaningful file system on either of the two partitions on the drive. Finally, I'm at an impasse. I assume that this system had *something* on the drive, although I suppose a previous owner did a FORMAT on the drive before passing the system on. It would be easiest for me to just format the drive and install either HDOS, or more likely, TurboDos and get on with it. If I had more time I'd look into finding a mechanism to read the hard drive sector by sector and make a copy, but the reality is I have more projects than I have time for, so this seems unlikely. Does anybody who has read this far have an idea what to do next? Format and reinstall? Write my own driver to dump the disk first? Find an old PC with a controller card that could interface to the drive?

19 years, 2 months

Some progress with my PDP-11/73 system

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Some progress with my PDP-11/73 system > From: David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com> > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:58:01 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >>> I soldered it back together but both drives still fail. At least >>> one of the drives spins up but then back down again. >> >> That can happen if the heads are stuck against the end stop inside >> the drive. There's a rubber bumper that goes sticky. Alison >> posted more information about that just a few days ago. > >Yes, I saw those messages. At this point I'm not up for opening up >the drive to attempt a fix though. I guess if one of my good ones >stops working I may change my mind. Instead, I'm starting to look >into what is necessary for a minimal RT-11 bootable RX50 diskette. >Unfortunately, that's the only medium I have for moving things to the >hard drive on the PDP-11. To boot a floppy under RT-11 is fairly easy. You will need a bootable disk, That is a copy of RT-11 with the bootdevice you plan to use configured. It also must have the hard disk driver as well and basic utilities. RT-11 fits on small devices (even tu58 256kB). FYI: an option is to use TU-58 emulator on a PC and a serial line to a PDP-11 as a fairly straight forward way to get stuff on a an -11 with blank media. At the extreme the DD boot can be hand entered into uODT as its something like 30 words long. I know I used to boot a romless 11/23 that way. Allison

19 years, 2 months

UNIX PCs was Re: Dreaming of a lean installation method [was Re: *nix on

by jam＠magic.com

> I have a feeling this thread has existed already, but > searching the archives rendered no hits. What should > be considered the first UNIX PC? Now there is some > form of UNIX available for just about everything (even > vintage ports), but what computer was made run UNIX > from the getgo? And please let's not get into > exhaustive definitions of UNIX, although frankly that > might add delightfully to the conversation. I did much of the port of V7 UNIX for the Fortune Systems 32:16 computer in 1981. It was a 6 MHz 68000 (not 68010!) designed specifically to run the UNIX operating system with business applications on top of it. It could run with 256KB of memory and two floppies (although it was really a lot more useful with a 5MB hard drive). That was the sole operating system intended for it. The 68000 did not have proper instruction restart after taking a trap, so we had to do some tricks to support traps due to stack growth. It had a real (and simple) MMU that supported text, data/bss, stack, and u_page, all built using MSI TTL and maybe a PAL -- no LSI MMU. The box was still rock solid when I last had it powered on, probably about 10 years ago. Mine is maxed out with 1MB of memory and four 68MB disk drives (if I am recalling the max supported disk size correctly). James Markevitch

19 years, 2 months

Dreaming of a lean installation method [was Re: *nix on

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Dreaming of a lean installation method [was Re: *nix on > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:25:54 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >On Apr 11, 2007, at 1:45 PM, Angel Martin Alganza wrote: >> What about smallX (formerly tinyX)? Has somebody used/looked at >> it/made an opinion of it? What about of Microwindows? W? MGR? > > Wow, MGR, I haven't heard of that in a while. I ran it for a bit >on an AT&T 3B1 back in the 80's. It was tiny and very fast! > > -Dave Me I prefer anything small and MC (midnite commander) as a UI on 'nix. and Norton Commander for dos. Then again I do a very custom W98se using 98lite for the same reason. Lighter is better. I'd love to find a 'nix (other than 2.x or V5/6/7) for the PDP-11 that has a small core and networking. Allison

19 years, 2 months

Help needed: DEC Micorvax II printing

by tony＠elmswick.co.uk

I have just seen your message. Are you still having problems printing from your Microvax 2, if so how have you got your printer set up. Are you trying to print directly to the printer or have you set up a print queue. Regards Tony Brooke

19 years, 2 months

m68k Mirage system

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Does this mean anything to anyone? It rings a few distant bells with me, but I can't for the life of me think what system it is (and google's littered with hits for software called mirage that runs on m68k ports of *nix-a-like OSes, so I'm having trouble filtering out the irrelevance :) We've just been offered one, but missing its disk controller, so it sounds like a no-go* - but I'm curious as to what it actually is. * Oh for infinite storage, where we could park incomplete systems in the hope that the missing bits turned up one day! :-) cheers Jules

19 years, 2 months

Dec Alpha 6000/?

by marvin＠west.net

Hi everyone, I saw a DEC alpha something or other at the UCSB central stores yesterday, but have no interest in it. Many of these machines are stripped of HDs and memory, but I didn't check it out except that I did see memory chips installed. I would guess that it would sell for about $25.00 or less.

19 years, 2 months

MCM66128L20

by michaelryan＠mindspring.com

>> I am looking for information about this part; I have something of a >> mystery on my hands. > >> At issue is a 512K IBM memory card that is part of the PC/XT 370 >> option (from 1984). >> The card I have has 18 stacked chips comprising 512K of RAM; the top >> chip of one of the pairs was broken off. (Tony Duell): >That's the first thing that puzzles me. It was my understanding that >these were 128Kbit chips, so 18 of them would give you 256K bytes (+ >parity) of memory. Can you confirm, please, that 18 of them really are 512K >> The top chips are stamped MCM66128L20; the bottom chips have no part number. My mistake; I should have said there are two rows of 18 chips, 36 in all, comprising 512K. You can see pictures at:- www.xt370.net Thanks for the suggestion -- removing both the old lower chip and the new upper chip and trying one of the new chips, on the assumption that the each of the new single-DIP parts replaces one of the old piggyback pairs, is the next logical step. But the board is so rare that I don't have the courage to rework it experimentally; it has run 96 hours of memory / system board tests without failure, and so for now I guess I will leave well enough alone. I suspect, as you do, that the bottom, unmarked part has a different select line; the chips are certainly soldered pin-to-pin. The lack of a part number on the bottom chip suggests the stacked pair was sold as a single part number (and the part number suggests a 128K DRAM); the fact that the new chips have the same part number and no piggybacked partner suggests that entire 128K eventually moved inside one DIP. The Motorola books I have access to from back in the day don't list this part. I guess, based on the munitions docs I had to sign, that it was mil-spec. Thanks, Mike

19 years, 2 months

GNT 4604 7102 3600 + Paper Tape supplies

by martin.griffiths＠gnt.co.uk

Hi Guys, Noticed some you talking about GNT paper tape readers and punches. 4600 4400 3600 7102 etc These are still manufactured in the UK for Worldwide use. Spares and repairs are also available. 1" wide industry standard paper tape rolls (and 5/8") are also available in limited colours. See our website at www.gnt.co.uk for contact details. Regards, Martin Griffiths GNT Limited W: www.gnt.co.uk <BLOCKED::BLOCKED::http://www.gnt.co.uk/> E: martin.griffiths at gnt.co.uk <BLOCKED::BLOCKED::mailto:martin.griffiths at gnt.co.uk> T: 01384 236007 F: 01384 236929 M: 07921 222972 The information contained in this message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by reply email and then delete it from your system immediately - any disclosure, copying or distribution of the message or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance upon it is prohibited and may be unlawful and GNT Limited accepts no liability whatsoever for the accuracy of its content. Any opinions expressed in the message are entirely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of GNT Limited. Please note that this e-mail and any attachments have not been encrypted. They may therefore be liable to be compromised. Please also note that it is your responsibility to scan this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. Viruses and compromises of security are inherent risks in relation to e-mail. We do not, to the extent of permitted by law, accept any liability (whether in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any virus infection and/or external compromise of security and/or confidentiality in relation to transmissions sent by e-mail. Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net

19 years, 2 months

Mystery re: MCM66128L20

by michaelryan＠mindspring.com

I am looking for information about this part; I have something of a mystery on my hands. At issue is a 512K IBM memory card that is part of the PC/XT 370 option (from 1984). The card I have has 18 stacked chips comprising 512K of RAM; the top chip of one of the pairs was broken off. The top chips are stamped MCM66128L20; the bottom chips have no part number. I could only find the part through a broker (and I paid $25 for it). I can't find a spec sheet but expected to receive a stacked part (most likely, two 64K chips stacked to make a "128K" chip. When the new chips arrived (after I signed munitions documents), they weren't stacked pairs. That left me to wonder whether the new parts are a later rev that incorporates all the circuits into one package or whether (more troublesome) the bottom chip of the pair is now a complete unmarked mystery. The chips were soldered together, not welded. So . . . I soldered one of the new chips onto the top of the bottom chip. I figured that if that action was a bust, I could still remove the bottom chip and replace both with one of my new ones. Much to my surprise, the board now passes memory diagnostics. Does anyone have a book with a spec sheet on this part number and possibly any insight into what is going on with the (unmarked) bottom one? There are some pictures of the project at:- www.xt370.net including the board and the chips. On the second page (click on 'more restoration photos') you can see the missing top chip. The code on the new chips is 8407BQD. The old chips say BQD8431. Thanks, Michael Ryan

19 years, 2 months

GNT 4604 7102 3600 + Paper Tape supplies

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> 1" wide industry standard paper tape rolls (and 5/8") are also available > in limited colours. Do you know of any sources for fan-fold paper tape instead of rolls?

19 years, 2 months

Emergency Moderation Mode off

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I'm going to turn off the emergency moderation mode, as the list appears to have settled down. I'm impressed with how things have been going - ontopic and cordial - it is most appreciated. Only a few posts were rejected during moderation time, and one person unsubscribed due to my "heavy-handedness". I'm hoping we can keep up the trend without full-on moderation. Thanks a bunch, and sorry for the slowness the past couple weeks! I'd humbly suggest that before posting - think for a second. It may defuse things in the future! Jay West

19 years, 2 months

Insanely stupid!

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I just want to take a moment to apologize for the comment that was made a day or two ago. It was not my intention to deride anyone of any particular background (and for that reason an apology isn't really necessary). Though I spend a good deal of time "deriding" my own heritage (and others!), I sometimes fail to understand that certain jests might not be appreciated. As such I here open myself up to any and all insults that any would deem appropriate, beginning with jokes about the Irish, Germans, and last but not least YUGOSLAVIANS! Do your worst knaves! :) I used to work with a Mexican guy, did the right thing, came here legally (also made a bundle, and bought a business for himself back in Mexico). I routinely would mimic his accent and manner of speech (what was so funny was how his pronunciation of Charmagne, the name of a Jamaican women who also worked with us, sounded like Chow Mein LOL LOL LOL. He never took any of it the wrong way though. ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail

19 years, 2 months

Looking for a scan doubler

by silvercreekvalley＠yahoo.com

Unfortunately - my monitor wont scan down to 15KHz and a nice LCD monitor is out of the question (for the moment anyway). The one place I've seen scan doublers used in a major way seems to have been in the Amiga scene. I dont mind having to make up cables/adapters if anyone has anything. Cheers Ian. ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265

19 years, 2 months

Underclocking m68k CPUs

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Underclocking m68k CPUs > From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:00:29 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 4/11/07, Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> As subject... do 68k CPUs cope with being underclocked? I've got a surplus >> 8-MHz part from an Amiga, and at the museum we've got a 68000 microprocessor >> trainer which is short its CPU. I'm not sure what speed CPU the trainer >> expects though (because I haven't looked in any detail :-) but it'll certainly >> be 8Mhz or less. > >Section 10.7 of the Users Manual >(http://iteso.mx/~temoc/micros/MC68000UM.pdf) indicates that 4MHz is >the minimum clock speed for an 8MHz-rated part. I've seen 4MHz-badged >parts, but it was in a 4MHz trainer from about 1982. I don't know >where you'd find performance data on a part that old. Motorola databook would have it and they weren't rare either. I've run them down to 100khz, the timing of the signals moves a bit as at those slow speeds the propagation delay is not significant anymore relative to the cpu timing. I did that once with a 68k with apparent normal (and very slow) behavour. With rare expection most CPU underclock to the extreme and most will overclock by some. The exceptions are any of the 8080/8085/z80 and similar cpus that use dynamic memory cells and are NOT static. Though I've taken them to very low clock speeds as well though not to full stop. I'ts rare to see a data sheet specify a minimum clock that isn't very slow or at least the vendors testing minima. Allison

19 years, 2 months

Underclocking m68k CPUs

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

As subject... do 68k CPUs cope with being underclocked? I've got a surplus 8-MHz part from an Amiga, and at the museum we've got a 68000 microprocessor trainer which is short its CPU. I'm not sure what speed CPU the trainer expects though (because I haven't looked in any detail :-) but it'll certainly be 8Mhz or less. cheers Jules

19 years, 2 months

any Honeywell H316 experts out there?

by e.wardle1＠ntlworld.com

Hi Joe, what do you want to know? I worked extensively in Dap16 in the 70's and still have a working H316 at home plus plenty of spares. Tony

19 years, 2 months

11/45 RL02 faults when RX02 is on

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Ok, is there a known severe RFI problem with mounting a RX02 directly on top of a RL02 in an H960??? I went back to look at the "RL02 faults when RX02 is on" problem. I had left the rear top cover of the RL02 up in the service position (with the drive extended from the rack). I retested without touching anything. Sure enough, the problem was "gone". The RL02 wouldn't fault no matter what. So I put that rear top cover back down and screwed in the 4 screws, then pushed the RL02 back into the rack and voila - the problem reoccured. The RL02 will fault just after spinup IF the RX02 (which is mounted directly above it) is powered on. Aha... I was now thinking a cable problem! I figured pushing the RL02 in and out of the rack seemed to be the causative factor, bending a cable just right or something. So I pulled the RL02 fully out front on the rails, and the problem went away (with the RX02 turned on just above it, but back in the rack). So with this configuration I figured that the problem occured when I pushed the RL02 back into the rack as it must jiggle some cables. I decided to try THIS... I extend the RL02 out the front and power up everything, including the RX02. The RL02 spins up just fine, no fault. Once it is ready... I start pushing the RL02 back in the rack, very slowly. After going back about 7 or 8 inches, the ready light starts to flash. I pull the drive outwards 1/2 inch and the ready light stops flashing. Push the RL02 in 1/2 inch and it starts flashing again. If I push the RL02 in another 2 or 3 inches after the ready light starts flashing, the drive faults. This is not a freak occurance, it is completely reproduceable. This makes me think bad cables. However, if I go and look in back at the cables when the drive is right at the point the ready light starts to flash, there are no cables being moved even slightly. I can move the RL02 cables and RX02 cables by hand, the drive doesn't fault. What is even MORE wierd... if I move the RL02 drive inward until the ready light starts to flash, then unplug power to the RX02 (the power cable for the RX02 is around the front, so I can unplug it without disturbing any cables at all)... the RL02 ready light stops flashing. This would make me think it is NOT cables, and it seems to be proxmity of the top of the RL02 drive to the bottom of the RX02 drive. I know everyone probably thinks I'm nuts, but has anyone heard of a reason not to mount a RX02 directly over an RL02??? Jay

19 years, 2 months

*nix on "classic" systems

by ken＠seefried.com

From: "Ensor" <classiccmp at memory-alpha.org.uk> > Looking around I see that "NetBSD" in particular supports quite a few > architectures including VAX, SGI, NeXT etc etc, NetBSD is, right or wrong, noted as the run-on-anything Unix (for various values of run). That said, since the people doing a lot of the paid development are focused on highish-end embedded systems, they are less interested in slavish devotion to ancient systems. Things like GCC also have a huge impact. A few ports have recently died (anything ns32000 (e.g. pc532) due to GCC dropping support), some are discussed but never gestated (pdp10, pc-rt) and some are more moribund than others (vax, though there has been significant effort recently). The 2.x and 3.x releases have bloated to obscene proportions, like needing more than 8M of memory (;^}). > So, can anyone point me at a website listing Linux ports to architectures > other than PC's. And what modern *nix ports, if any, do other list members > use on their classic iron? You can browse the source code under "arch" and see what ports are committed. For example: http://lxr.linux.no/source/arch/. This doesn't tell the whole story, as there are at least a handful of wildcat ports that never made mainline.

19 years, 2 months

Jump to page:

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb