test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

Lack of 8-bit threads (was Re: Linux question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Lack of 8-bit threads (was Re: Linux question) > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:34:08 -0700 (PDT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >Tony wrote: >> If this is true, and it certainly seems to be, then the 'cure' for no >> real 80bit micro discussiosn is to start some. >> >> However, I've noticed that some 8-bit home computer threads don't seem to >> go anywhere. A couple of weeks back somebody posted about that > >I think that it is safe to say that while the list is for "Classic >Computers", it has a *VERY* strong DEC orientation. There is also a very >large number of messages on "generic" hardware issues and "generic" data >archival issues. I'm stong DEC person but 75% of my collection is 8bitters. I have a lot of experience with 8bitters in the single chip and multichip realm. But 8bitters is a large space, runs the gamut from intel/zilog to 1802. >Perhaps part of the problem is that there are better places to go for >things such as C64's, Apple ]['s, Amiga's and the like. I honestly don't >know. I do know that I typically do not ask VMS questions here, rather I go >to comp.os.vms. there is that also the Commies are a special breed as are the Apple]['s and a generic forum would miss the sublties that are implementation specific. >I do know that in my case I have almost no room at home for Classic Computer >stuff, as a result the classic systems that I have at home right now that >aren't hopelessy buried are a couple VAXen, a pair of PDP-11's, and a C-64. >I also have almost no free time, so the main system that sees *any* use is >the VAXstation 4000/vlc (it is my DECnet Area Router). ;) I've pretty much cubed out here too. However I have them arranged so a large number of them are accessable and even operable. Nothing like a 9way VMS LAVC to perk up a day. Allison

19 years, 1 month

Junkbox CP/M system?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Junkbox CP/M system? > From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:04:03 -0400 > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > >> >>Subject: Junkbox CP/M system? >> From: Jos Dreesen <jos.dreesen at bluewin.ch> >> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:13:35 +0200 >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> >> >> >>Anyone knows of websites discussing true junkbox CP/M systems ? >> >>The P112 might be nice, but my junkbox contains only the standard Z80... >> >> Jos Dreessen > >Lookup ALPACA on Yahoo groups.com. There are several Z80 systems on the net. > > >Allison It was late wne I posted so here is something more useful and certainly there has to be something for everyone. If all else fails, I've made more than a few "one off" z80 systems using "junkbox" parts. To run CP/M you don't need a lot but the minimal and useful complete system are not far apart. Z80: Whatever you have! RAM: 48-64k of ram 48k will be enough to run a lot of software, but 64k is only 2 61256s (a 32kx8 SRAM). CP/M will run in 32k but limited application software will fit. The only requirement is ram starts at 0000h and be contigious for at least 20K(minimum) after boot. ROM: anything from 2k up, needed to "boot" the system. desireable to be able to disable it from the memory map. Serial port for a terminal (can be bitbash software to a single bit port) Some mass storage IDE, CF, Rom as a READonly DISK, Also ram can be made to look like disk and if all else a floppy controller and drive. Of all those IDE is the easiest and floppy is likely the more complex. Several desirable things but not required: Serial at least two serial ports (one SIO or DART has two). Conter timer either z80 CTC or common 8253 to provide both a baud clock for serial and a free counter timer for whatever. Parallel interface (IBM/centronics compatable) simple but allows for printers like Epson or HP4L. Parallel port using 8255 PPI, 24 IO lines software configurable, great for programmer or other projects that must be controlled. A video chip like 6845 for a self contained display system Keyboard interface that can accept XT or PS2 keyboard. Paged ram or rom for extra workspace. SITES----------------> Several items at this site worth looking at. http://www.retroleum.co.uk/z80-ideinterface.html Definate go to site for Z80 info: http://www.z80.info/ There are other sites from that link worth a trip, many are in German and have english translation, some don't, I've found them useful. The list would not be complete without Gaby's fine work: http://www.gaby.de/ecpmlink.htm Allison

19 years, 1 month

disassembling STacy with a SLEDGEHAMMER.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: disassembling STacy with a SLEDGEHAMMER. > From: Andrew Back <andy at smokebelch.org> > Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:02:22 +0100 (BST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >>>> Unless anyone has any other bright ideas, it's going in the trash. It's my >>>> bloody money and I'll get my money's worth out of this piece of crap the >>>> Gallagher way. No wonder Atari burned out. >>> >>> Golly, Cameron--doesn't it say right there on the unit "No user- >>> serviceable components inside"? ;-) >> >> No, it just doesn't say much of anything. >> >> I have never met a machine more impossible to get into for its size. > >For your next torture, I mean task, try getting the lid back on a >VAXstation 2000. > >Andrew I dont know I have two and also two of the same box with TK50 in them. Once you know the incantation it's easy. Allison

19 years, 1 month

Hand-rolling a CP/M machine

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Hand-rolling a CP/M machine > From: Jim Battle <frustum at pacbell.net> > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:46:08 -0500 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >woodelf wrote: >> Allison wrote: >> >>> You have to be kidding me. All you need is a 2764 and a programmer. >>> It's a ROM and the pattern is in the manual, what could be easier? >>> Actually if someone were building I'd suggest using a 2764 over the >>> part used on the VDM1 as that was a two or three voltage part and >>> 27C64(or even a 27C256) is common as flies plus lower power. >> >> Well if I still had the manual let alone the the VDM ... :( > >The ROM images are available as C character stucts in my Solace >emulator. According to the manual, the Sol was sold with two different >characters sets (I don't know if that is true or not). Both are >available at: > > http://www.sol20.org/solace.html > >Download the source. Look in charset_6574.c and charset_6575.c The answer is true. the difference in the charsets is what the non-ascii mapped chars look like. (symboles and arrows and other neat glyphs.). Allison

19 years, 1 month

Good news: The MSCP SCSI 1.2 board booted VMS6.1 CD!

by vax9000＠gmail.com

Good news! Minutes ago the MSCP SCSI 1.2 board booted VMS6.1 CD. It booted to a $ prompt and I did not know what to do next. It is a pity that I left my camera in my office and could not record this moment. :) vax, 9000

19 years, 1 month

HP54615B powersupply?

by jimmi＠satlantic.com

hello. did you ever fix this scope? james

19 years, 1 month

Good news: The MSCP SCSI 1.2 board booted VMS6.1 CD!

by cheri-post＠web.de

> Good news! > Minutes ago the MSCP SCSI 1.2 board booted VMS6.1 CD. > It booted to a $ prompt and I did not know what to do next. Easy, just sit there and enjoy the upcome of the prompt-sign :-) Good work !!! Pierre _______________________________________________________________ SMS schreiben mit WEB.DE FreeMail - einfach, schnell und kostenguenstig. Jetzt gleich testen! http://f.web.de/?mc=021192

19 years, 1 month

disassembling STacy with a SLEDGEHAMMER.

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

If you do take a hammer to it (hope you dont) perhaps you can video it so that we can learn from it. I know i learnt a little about harddrives from one on YouTube, even if the guy messing with it damaged it. - Andrew B (via mobile phone) --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote: > I am about ready to take my #10 sledgehammer to this benighted piece of junk. > How in all that is holy do you get it apart? I've got all the screws out, > got all the snaps up on the lower part and the top half seems to float off > except for something in the middle of the board I can't see that's holding it > on. I think it's the cabling to the LCD, but I can't get the display apart > either! Most of the snaps are off, but I can't undo the root. > > Any suggestions, before I disassemble the unit using the fragmentation > method instead? > > -- > ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com > -- The moon may be smaller than the Earth, but it's farther away. -------------

19 years, 1 month

Junkbox CP/M system?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Junkbox CP/M system? > From: "Ensor" <classiccmp at memory-alpha.org.uk> > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 05:16:45 +0100 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Hi, > > > > > CF IDE is easy--it's 8 bit. HD IDE uses a 16-bit data path for > >sector data transfer.... > >The original IDE drives used 8-bit transfers (I had one in my first XT), >even to this day there is still be a signal on the IDE interface to force >the use of 8-bit mode. It's rarely implemented and its not a "line" it was part of the command set. The line IO16 is an output that goes high when sector transfers happen. I have a few XT IDE and of the 4 only one drive (20mb) does 8bit the rest depend on the ISA bus card to do translation (8-16). > >At least one of the IDE interfaces available for 8-bit Atari machines uses >the drive in this mode. > > > TTFN - Pete. What drive? YOu can of course use CF that has 8bit mode or just ignore the high 8bits (loose half the space) for a simpler interface. Allison

19 years, 1 month

Acorn Second Processors (was: Re: Quick survey on equipment)

by classiccmp＠memory-alpha.org.uk

Hi, >> Think I'll just get a Z80 Second Processor for my Beeb >>instead (far less hassle). > > I didn't think those were _that_ common... Ooer, don't say that....there used to be *lots* of them at radio rallies, but I haven't been to one for a couple of years (planning on doing Elvaston Castle this year though). I suppose I could always make one, assuming the necessary ROM images are available somewhere? I don't recall there being any custom logic in the 6502 Second Processor and my memory of the Torch Z80 2nd processor is waaay to hazy. Which brings me onto a second point. I actually have at least one BBC "Master" too, I have a vague recollection that these have a connector for an internal, as well as an external, second processor? Do you know of any websites where I could get more info? TTFN - Pete.

19 years, 1 month

Hawthorne 68000 SBC page

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: For those who might be interested, I started an information page on the 68k SBC that I received last week. http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ht68k.htm I have all of the manuals copied but I haven?t started scanning it yet. I will probably try to do some tomorrow., and I?ll try to take a picture or two. Rich -- Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator http://www.altair32.com http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp

19 years, 1 month

ET-3400 ROM adapter

by whipaway＠yahoo.com

Someone was looking for the ET-3400 ROM adapter, See http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/ROM_Emulator/UsersGuide.pdf Be careful, it looks like pin 11 (CS1) has been masked to be active low, so use the spare gate on the 7420 as an inverter. --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

19 years, 1 month

Hand-rolling a CP/M machine

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Hand-rolling a CP/M machine > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:24:17 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >>> You can copy the screen logic for TRS80 as that is a basic 64x16 as well. >> Good thing to keep in mind. > >Well if anybody is doing VDM-1's the big problem is that you can't find >the Character ROM any more. I like the idea of TTL display like VDM-1 >but since this is not the late 70's a 80x24 screen is reasonable >and the data out is a simple VGA format, since the monitors are easy to >come by. You have to be kidding me. All you need is a 2764 and a programmer. It's a ROM and the pattern is in the manual, what could be easier? Actually if someone were building I'd suggest using a 2764 over the part used on the VDM1 as that was a two or three voltage part and 27C64(or even a 27C256) is common as flies plus lower power. Allison

19 years, 1 month

cctalk Digest, Vol 44, Issue 54

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Sometimes brevity is the soul of confusion.... At 20:42 -0500 4/18/07, Allison wrote: >Not true as the rainbow also ran CP/M-80/88 as it was a dual CPU (has a z80). At 20:42 -0500 4/18/07, Pat wrote: >I'd imagine that Mark meant that the amount of memory (832k) was >irrelevant to CP/M-80. At 20:42 -0500 4/18/07, Chris wrote: > Could it access more then 64k under CP/M-80? Don't >you mean CP/M-86? Not to nit pick... > I don't know about specific Rainbow revisions, but I >was under the impression the 'bow could go up to 896k. >Maybe I'm thinking of the Tandy 2000 via an 3rd party upgrade. Pat's right, I meant the 8080/Z-80 form of CP/M would (I think) not access anything above 64k for the Z-80. I remember thinking it would be a neat hack to make the other 768k into a RAMdisk for CP/M on the Z-80, using the 8088 to serve it. Allison's right too, CP/M-80/86 would access the full 832k (or 896k in a B model) for the 8088 processor to run (and I think that's the original OS supplied with the machine, though MS-DOS was also available). Rainbow PC-100A could not be (I know, and I don't mean that as a challenge - I'm just talking about factory-supplied options...) expanded beyond 832k RAM, and the 8087 coprocessor card mine uses was one of the few ways to expand that far. PC-100B and PC-100+ (The latter with a hard drive and controller and a different badge, but otherwise identical to a B) both could be expanded up to 896k RAM. In any case, thanks for the clarification(s)! -- - Mark, 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

19 years, 1 month

XT IDE (was Re: Junkbox CP/M system?)

by zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com

Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: >On 4/26/07, Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>[1] I don't buy new stuff, not for PCs - not when the price drops so much for >>"previous generation". Unfortunately SCSI drives of 36GB and up don't seem to >>be readily available. Well, a) this might be "wrong side of the pond" for you, and b) I'm not sure what you consider "cheap" but this place only has 633 in stock and ready to sell: http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?ID=39962&C=202&S=1005 Hitachi 36.9GB Ultra 320 SCSI 10000RPM HDD --- $56.99 each. IMHO, not a *horrible* price, and with some froogling (oops, I guess that's gone now) you might be able to find 'em cheaper... >I got a few in 2003, cheap, but I'm not seeing server drives as >abundantly as I used to. The ones behind me are loaded with "SAS" >(Serial-attached-SCSI, AFAIK), so perhaps the days of SCA-connector >UltraWIDE SCSI drives are waning at last. Doubtful... at least not just yet, IMHO. I'd think there's still a lot of installations with 68/80 pin SCSI hardware - but with supply-n-demand, I doubt new drives will get cheaper - we're prolly at the point where they're going to start getting more expensive than the SAS & whatnot. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | Anarchy doesn't scale well. -- Me zmerch at 30below.com. | SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers

19 years, 1 month

Junkbox parts...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Junkbox parts... > From: "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:14:20 -0300 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >> I've seen that and personally I'd like to isolate the system from the >> nasty scancode output from the keyboard so that the result looks like >> simple ASCII 7bit. I'd have to reprogram the 8742s to do that as the >> extracted parts only serve as a serial IO and buffer. > > Although this is a cannon to kill a microbe, it can be done. >www.mcselec.com has a nice basic compiler with incluided PS2 keyboard >decoding. Write a small basic program to translate the scancodes to >whatever-you-want and you're in! Not only the heavyest solution I've seen to date also one of the more costly. The "nice" basic compiler is 79Euros. Allison

19 years, 1 month

DC-600/300XL tape cart observation

by cclist＠sydex.com

I've been cursing my way through a load of DC300XL/DC600A carts written a bit over 20 years ago. They're mixed "Scotch" brand (blue logo) and "3M" (red logo). The "Scotch" ones have been an unmitigated nightmare. Binder bleed visible between wraps on each reel (white gloppy deposits), flaking of the binder (the tension band has great chunks of oxide firmly laminated to it). Really awful news and prety much a total loss. The "3M" brand are largely recoverable, with a few missing block errors. Does this match everyone else's experience with these two brands? Cheers, Chuck

19 years, 1 month

Junkbox parts...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Junkbox parts... > From: Holger Veit <holger.veit at iais.fraunhofer.de> > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:37:48 +0200 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >Allison schrieb: >> The question on junkbox z80 systems made me remember that >> old 386 and 486 system besides providing a raft of 32kx8 SRAMS >> also had a keyboard interface chip.. >> >> I have a few salvaged 8742(smae as 8242) from PC hardware >> of the AT class 80386-486 level. >> >> Without resorting to eraseing the Eproms (8742) and reprogramming >> them I've wondered if.. >> >> Can these parts (PC AT keyboard interface) can they be used for >> small system as a interface from AT or PS2 keyboard to a 8bit micro. >> Right off I suspect yes. However is there any information on how >> to "talk" software wise to them as to what kind of results and >> commands they take? >> >> >See http://www.arne.si/~mauricio/kbdfaq.html for abundant information on >the keyboard, >and programming the controller. Basically, you connect it to a z80 the >same way as it is done >in the PeeCee - wire it to i/o port 60/64h and use the same logic to >program raw commands. >Normally, in homwbrew systems, people tend not to use a 8042 pulled from >a scrap board but talk >to the keyboard directly, through the serial protocol described above. >The keyboard itself typically >contained some 8048 controller to scan the kbd matrix. I've seen that and personally I'd like to isolate the system from the nasty scancode output from the keyboard so that the result looks like simple ASCII 7bit. I'd have to reprogram the 8742s to do that as the extracted parts only serve as a serial IO and buffer. >I don't have the exact circuitry for the 8042 UPI at hand right now, but >the schematic can be >found in the IBM AT Technical Reference Manual. I have more than enough info on the 8742 itself, I use them for other applications. The PC AT circuit is trivial and I have that as well. Allison

19 years, 1 month

Floppy drive enclosures

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: Does anyone have a consistent source for dual 5.25? half-height external floppy drive enclosures? I?m looking for an external case for my 68k SBC. Thanks in advance for any pointers. Rich -- Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator http://www.altair32.com http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp

19 years, 2 months

Hand-rolling a CP/M machine

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Hand-rolling a CP/M machine > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:22:11 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >> You have to be kidding me. All you need is a 2764 and a programmer. >> It's a ROM and the pattern is in the manual, what could be easier? >> Actually if someone were building I'd suggest using a 2764 over the >> part used on the VDM1 as that was a two or three voltage part and >> 27C64(or even a 27C256) is common as flies plus lower power. > >Well if I still had the manual let alone the the VDM ... :( > Manual is on line I think at both Dave and bitsavers. Allison

19 years, 2 months

Hand-rolling a CP/M machine

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Hand-rolling a CP/M machine > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:20:17 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >>>> You have to be kidding me. All you need is a 2764 and a programmer. >>>> It's a ROM and the pattern is in the manual, what could be easier? >>>> Actually if someone were building I'd suggest using a 2764 over the >>>> part used on the VDM1 as that was a two or three voltage part and >>>> 27C64(or even a 27C256) is common as flies plus lower power. >>> Well if I still had the manual let alone the the VDM ... :( >>> >> >> Manual is on line I think at both Dave and bitsavers. > >Off hand I don't see it at bitsavers. > the stufffs out here. Here's Dave's site and page. http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/s100c/index.htm Scroll down the page to Processor tech it's a 6mb PDF but that manual has sources for the Driver program, listing of the pattern for the character rom and operating theory. Else where on the same page are several other S100 boards that do video some are 64x16 and at least one is 80x24. Dave happens to have a well organized site for old computer history. Allison

19 years, 2 months

What monitor is this?

by trixter＠oldskool.org

Here's a picture: http://www.oldskool.org/misc/unknown_monitor.jpg I'm pretty sure this is the monitor that came bundled with the IBM PS/1 series, but if anyone can get a lock on this before Wednesday night I'd be most appreciative. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

19 years, 2 months

Anyone want a free (plus shipping) Sun Ultra 10?

by alanp＠snowmoose.com

I am getting a new SPARC box for work. My manager says that the old Ultra 10 is not worth shipping back. Anyone want it for the cost of shipping? alan

19 years, 2 months

*nix on "classic" systems

by jvdg＠sparcpark.net

Chuck Guzis wrote: >On 11 Apr 2007 at 23:07, Joost van de Griek wrote: > >> On 4/11/07 9:35 PM, Chris M wrote: >> >>> I really don't think it's realistic to operate a modern computer w/a >>> non-windowed environment these days. Many will disagree, and that's their >>> prerogative, someone said something about eye-candy, but I think it comes down >>> to cheating yourself of functionality. >> >> You give up some functionality, gain other functionality. Like almost >> everything, a GUI is a trade-off. > > Excuse me, but we're talking about two different things, aren't we? > Or is my age showing again? Maybe we are, but I hardly think that's relevant. > Unless I've got my wires crossed (again), "windowing" and "GUI" have > very little to do with another. That is, you can have text-mode > winodws and windowless graphics, no? A windowed environment is a GUI, yes? > So what's meant here? What's meant here is that the Chris M has a point: you *do* cheat yourself of some functionality when using a non-windowed environment "these days". However, you also cheat yourself of functionality exactly by using a windows environment. There are things that are much more efficient if you don't have to wrestle the point-and-click interface. Look at *real* power users, even on windowed systems. They hardly touch the mouse. It's all keyboard shortcuts, and it's *way* faster. The downside is having to master all those cryptic gestures and key combinations. ,xtG tsooJ

19 years, 2 months

DC-600/300XL tape cart observation

by dm561＠torfree.net

I've got a bunch of DC-600/615A & 300XLP tapes that, although I haven't tried to read them lately, look OK, i.e. they move freely and nothing seems to be sticking. Aside from the issue of archiving them, is it better to leave them until needed, or should I run them through a retension occasionally to prevent some of the problems mentioned recently? Any special conditions for storage? Opinions? Experience? mike

19 years, 2 months

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