test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by useddec＠gmail.com

> > Does anyone out there have a G401 11/45 bipolar mem they are willing to > > sell? Or maybe repair one? I'm also looking for some RA70 drives. > > > > Thanks, Paul > > >

19 years, 1 month

anyone interested in a Sharp PC-7000

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I actually have to locate the thing. In pretty good shape AFAIR. I'll trade it for something kewell, or will entertain offers... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL

19 years, 1 month

Digest Mode - help please

by ygehrich＠yahoo.com

At 02:04 PM 5/23/2007 Dave Caroline wrote: >do you want GMAIL 2.8gig of space? I have it now thanx Gen >Dave Caroline > >On 5/23/07, Gene Ehrich <ygehrich at yahoo.com> wrote: >>I have been trying for a few weeks to change to the digest mode. I >>tried what it said on the FAQ with no success. >> >>I tried the couple of suggestions that Jules made also with no success. >> >>Is there somebody who can make the change for me? If I cannot get to >>digest mode I'll have to unsubscribe. The mailbox will fill up too >>quickly while I am away. >> >>Help please >> >>

19 years, 1 month

Powerbook 145 Manual for shipping

by silent700＠gmail.com

Free + Shipping (from 60074) to first taker. "Macintosh User's Guide for Macintosh Powerbook 145" Good shape, small scuff on the cover.

19 years, 1 month

PDP-11/84, PMI and Q-bus

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

So in order of preference: KDJ11-BF (M8190-AE) Goes in slot 1 KDJ11-Bx MSV11-JD Slot 2 MSV11-JD Slot 3 Right so that's the answer. Good I shall now look for those. Thanks Rod -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull Sent: 23 May 2007 16:24 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: PDP-11/84, PMI and Q-bus On 23/05/2007 08:44, Rod Smallwood wrote: > Hi Jerome, > Sorry I did not pose the question very well. > I am trying to get back to the original issue. > > Which is: > > 1. I have an 11/94 with a missing cpu board. > 2. The correct CPU board as you know is too expensive. > 3. Please will somebody give me a low cost alterative in a form I can > understad. > > 4. So all I want is for somebody to say is something like: > > " Put CPU board type KDJ11-xx (M????-??) in slot 1." Practically speaking, if you can't get a KDJ11-E M8981 PDP-11/94 or /93 board, the next best is a KDJ11-BF M8190-AE which is the 18MHz board with floating point accelerator used in an 11/84 or 11/83. But any KDJ11-B would do, the permutations being 18MHz or 15MHz, and with or without FPA. The plain M8190 (no suffix) KDJ11-BC can't have an FPA added. The other common flavour of KDJ11 is the MM7554 used in the 11/53 but that can't use PMI (which you need). All the above are quad-height boards. You do not want the dual-height KDJ11-A. > " Put a memory card type MSV11-xx (M????-??) in slot2." MSV11-J, M8637, or failing that, MSV11-RA, M7458. Look in http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/QBus_memory to see how much memory the various versions have. One or two MSV11-JD would be best. > " Put another (optional) memory card type MSV11-xx (M????-??) > in slot3." See above. And that is the correct order. If you only get one memory board you may also need a Minimum Load Module for slot 3. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

19 years, 1 month

Olivetti Programma 101 manual online

by Vincenzo.CASIRAGHI＠gemalto.com

Hello, do you still have the scans of the Olivetti Programma 101 General manual? Could you please send them by email? Thanks & Regards, Vincenzo.

19 years, 1 month

Need help with VTserver

by charlesmorris＠hughes.net

On Wed, 23 May 2007 12:04:18 -0500 (CDT), you wrote: >If one has papertape, which I don't expect Charles does. A 2MB OS/8 >device will fill a lot of papertape ;-) Actually I do have an ASR33. Now consider how long 2 Mb would take to punch or read at 10 characters per second :P >I directed him to the list because I am aware of what VTserver does, >but I haven't used it myself and thought that there would be some >experienced hands to show him the ropes. Anyone? I'm having a problem since I think VTserver was originally intended to work with hardware flow control (handshaking) and 11's console port is a simple three-line with no flow control. This is the version I'm using, that runs on Windows machines: http://home.alltel.net/engdahl/vtserver.zip Max SLU speed on the -11 is 19200 so that's what I'm running. I tied pins 1,4,6 together on the DE-9 connector to COM1: (to "fake" a handshake). After starting ODT on the 11/23+, and "VTserver 19200" in the laptop's cmd window, I see more or less continuous strings of "@" until I hit ^B and then ^A to download the bootstrap. The "copy" file then downloads successfully, but when prompted for the input device (RL), when I hit the R key, it echoes continuously at high speed (RRRRRRRRRRRRRR....) until I press the L, then LLLLLLLLLLLL... etc. and when hitting return, of course it's a "bad device" message. Is there anything I can do about this? Is it possible to use XON/XOFF flow control (I don't think the "copy" program does, though?) What did I do wrong? thanks Charles

19 years, 1 month

Need help with VTserver

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

> >Anyone? > >I'm having a problem since I think VTserver was originally >intended to work with hardware flow control (handshaking) and 11's >console port is a simple three-line with no flow control. This is >the version I'm using, that runs on Windows machines: >http://home.alltel.net/engdahl/vtserver.zip > I have used VTServer quite a bit to copy RK05, RL01, and RL02 packs from my PDP-11/40 to a Windows-based PC, and vice versa. I have not used it in a couple years, but it is my recollection that when you start the VTServer executable, and assuming that your INI file is set up properly, it opens the COM port, which is connected via (I think) a null modem cable to the console serial line on the PDP-11. It then copies an ULTRIX OS to the PDP-11 and boots Ultrix. It seems like it took a few minutes to copy the Ultrix shell to the PDP-11. Once Ultrix is up and running, you can copy files to and from the PDP-11 disk packs. I have pulled images of many packs to my PC this way, and I have also copied disk images from my PC to an actual PDP-11 RL01, RL02, and RK05. It always worked fine for me except when a pack had bad blocks. I think that my version of VTServer is more current than the one that Johnathan Engdahl has on his site. When I was working with VTServer, I encountered some bugs. Fred Van Kempen fixed these for me and sent me an updated VTServer system. It sounds like you could use a PDP-11 to create RL01 or RL02 packs for use on the PDP-8. However, as someone mentioned in an earlier post, you could not do the same with RK05 packs because the sectoring is different. I think the metal hub that is mounted on the platter is different as well and has a different number of grooves in the hub. If you want my version of VTServer, let me know. I may stick in out on my web site so it can be downloaded. Ashley http://www.woffordwitch.com

19 years, 1 month

PDP-11/84, PMI and Q-bus

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi Jerome, Sorry I did not pose the question very well. I am trying to get back to the original issue. Which is: 1. I have an 11/94 with a missing cpu board. 2. The correct CPU board as you know is too expensive. 3. Please will somebody give me a low cost alterative in a form I can understad. 4. So all I want is for somebody to say is something like: " Put CPU board type KDJ11-xx (M????-??) in slot 1." " Put a memory card type MSV11-xx (M????-??) in slot2." " Put another (optional) memory card type MSV11-xx (M????-??) in slot3." or what ever order is correct and will run in a PDP-11/94. (xx = please supply correct suffix) (M????-??) please supply correct module number) 5. So far I know a lot about what won't work but not a lot about what will!! Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jerome H. Fine Sent: 23 May 2007 03:02 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: PDP-11/84, PMI and Q-bus >Rod Smallwood wrote: >Well that's seems to define the 11/84. >How does this all apply to the 11/94 >(which is the real problem) > Jerome Fine replies: Since the PDP-11/94 CPU will be the ONLY board you use in those first few slots, if you have a 4 MB version, there can't be any questions left (as far as I understand). So the answer will be found in the early replies: MONEY!! If I remember correctly, the PDP-11/93 CPU is still much more expensive than the PDP-11/83 CPU when combined with PMI memory. Now if you have an RT-11 question, that I can probably answer. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year.

19 years, 1 month

Colorgrafix dual-VGA ISA display adaptor

by lproven＠gmail.com

Came across one of these the other day when rummaging through the parts bin. I don't know anything much about it, but it allows, I believe, dual-head displays on an ISA bus machine. Anyone want it? Free for postage from London, UK... -- Liam Proven ? Blog, homepage &c: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat: liamproven at aol.com ? MSN/Messenger: lproven at hotmail.com Yahoo: liamproven at yahoo.co.uk ? Skype: liamproven ? ICQ: 73187508

19 years, 1 month

FOG DOS discs

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> > these? > > - http://www.znode51.de/fog/filelist.htm nope. Those are the CP/M and Language discs FOG started supporting DOS later. The master discs that were donated to the Computer History Museum start around 1986 and go to 1990 (vol 408). There were also specialty collections for various CP/M boxes, but unfortunately they are water/mold damaged are are unreadable (the discs are glued to the inner sleeve). I'm grinding through FOG_DOS today, and will put them up under http://bitsavers.org/bits/Users_Groups/FOG later today when I've finished reading them.

19 years, 1 month

Need help with VTserver

by charlesmorris＠hughes.net

Thanks to a creative suggestion from Ethan, I want to use VTserver to transfer a bootable OS/8 RL02 image from my laptop (which works fine under SIMH PDP-8) to an RL02 pack on my 11/23+. Then I will remove that disk from the drive on the -11, place it in the 8/A's RL02 drive, and voila - it should boot OS/8! (The disks are identical format regardless of system, only the programs themselves differ). Meanwhile I am confused about VTserver's use and terminology of serial ports. I got a PC-executable version here: http://home.alltel.net/engdahl/vtserver.zip and modified the .vtrc file (as recommended in the embedded comments) to send only two tape records, "copy" and the RL02 image. I realize a null modem cable will need to be made. So far so good? But I don't understand the difference between, say, "ttyd1" and "ttyp9"... those are Unix terms, not DOS... will one of these be correct to enable the serial port connector on the back (one of the COM ports)? If not, how do I patch this? I was a hardware designer and 8/16 bit assembly language writer (and that was over 20 years ago) and definitely never a C, Unix or Windows programmer, so please bear with me. Any helpful hints appreciated :) -Charles

19 years, 1 month

O YEAH! What a deal!!!

by jba＠sdf.lonestar.org

--- Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> wrote: > take no offense at my previous comment. It's just >that I'd have needed better graphics (and clockspeed, >and...) to brave the wilds of dos incompatibility in >order to commit to such a system back when they were >current. All of the other pseudo compatibles have much >more to offer, and the Rainbow seemed to drift into >obscurity not long after it's inception (there was a >measure of solidarity among those who did buy it >though, which is to be commended). I do consider it an >interesting collectible piece though, and am eager to >add to it functionally. BUT NOT AT THOSE PRICES!!! OI! No offense taken :). The Rainbow does tend to be frustrating due to its "MS-DOS compatability." I think you really have to love it to use it sometimes... If you want to see some more outrageous prices from ebay stores, do a search for "dec rainbow" in Computers & Networking on eBay. The eBay Store prices are comically high. My favorite is $89.93 for a "Fan Assembly." Let me just get out my wallet... -Jeff jba at sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

19 years, 1 month

The Last of The Line

by bqt＠softjar.se

Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> skrev: > On Saturday 19 May 2007 06:35, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > "Glen Slick" <glen.slick at gmail.com> skrev: > > > > On 5/17/07, Rod Smallwood <RodSmallwood at mail.ediconsulting.co.uk> wrote: > > > >> > OK we have a change > > > >> > > > > >>> > >PMI memory goes in slots 1 and 2, CPU goes in 3 > > > >>> > >joe lang > > > >> > > > > >> > Rod > > > > > > > > From my understanding of this after looking at various manuals this > > > > is true for an 11/73 or 11/83 with an H9872 backplane in a BA23 > > > > box, but not for an 11/84. > > > > > > Correct. So if people could stop assuming that an 11/84 have a q-bus, > > > we would get a long way towards clearing this up. > > > If people don't know about the 11/84 or 11/94, don't write answers > > > based on your knowledge of the q-bus based KDJ11 setups. > > My "11/94" (which was an upgraded 11/84, and which I got CPU-less) > actually does have a QBUS... it's got an Able Qniverter to hook the > UNIBUS in the chassis to the QBUS from the CPU, and both QBUS and UNIBUS > peripherals. > > Does anyone know how common that was? I don't see any evidence pointing > towards it not being designed that way by DEC. The chassis is DEC > badged, with a label on the side indicating that it was upgraded from an > 11/84 to be an 11/94 at some point. Pat, what you have is what I would describe as an 11/93 with an Qniverter. That will not be exactly the same thing as an 11/94. The KTJ11-B, which is DECs Unibus adapter, have some special signals to the CPU telling it that the KTJ11 is there, and that changes the behaviour of the Qbus, according to the manuals. I haven't said that the wiring of the memory slots in an 11/84 (or 11/94) isn't the same as in a Q/CD backplane. It must (by default) be atleast very similar to a Q/CD backplane. However, there are some special signals, and also some signals that change behaviour in an 11/84 and 11/94, according to the manuals. And that will only happen if you have a KTJ11-B in there. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

19 years, 1 month

PDP-11/84, PMI and Q-bus

by bqt＠softjar.se

"Rod Smallwood" <RodSmallwood at mail.ediconsulting.co.uk> skrev: > Hi > > Well that's seems to define the 11/84. > How does this all apply to the 11/94 > (which is the real problem) Well, the UBA is the same, so the same PMI Unibus signals are originated at that end. No memory can exist in an 11/94 though, since all the memory are on board. However, the communication between the CPU and UBA is using the PMI protocol, still. However, the dealings with interrupts and so on must still be done in the same way as for the 11/84 as well. So I would say that the 11/94 behaves exactly like the 11/84. (Do anyone know if an 11/94 with 2 megs on board could use an external 2 megs?) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

19 years, 1 month

PDP-11/84, PMI and Q-bus

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi Well that's seems to define the 11/84. How does this all apply to the 11/94 (which is the real problem) Rod -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist Sent: 21 May 2007 21:41 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Pete Turnbull Subject: PDP-11/84, PMI and Q-bus Okay, since this topic have become a subject of much discussion and some diverse opinions, I decided to really read the manuals to try to find the bottom of this all. My main source of information here have been the "KDJ11-B CPU Module Users's Guide". EK-KDJ1B-UG-001 Now, to start with the position of the CPU card in an 11/84. Chapter 7, section 7.2. Page 7-1: "7.2 PMI INTERFACE The PMI interface signals are defined as the PMI bus master signals, the PMI slave signals and the PMI Unibus adapter signals. These interface signals are assigned to the C and D rows of the backplane and are defined as the interconnect bus. The PMI interface signals on the C/D bus are normally assigned two pins to provide an interconnection between the slots. The KDJ11-B module is only assigned one pin and therefore its position in the backplane is critical. The LSI bus signals that are used with the PMI protocol use the A and B rows of the backplane defined as the LSI bus." Now, if Pete is correct in that the PMI bus on the 11/84 really goes to both pins on all slots, then it should be okay to place the CPU in any slot. I haven't tried that, but I might when I have the time. I suspect he's right since otherwise I would have expected the CPU to be in slot 3. But DEC could be doing some fancy wiring... :-) The fact that the placement is critical is obvious if we talk about Q-bus systems, and I suspect the comment is written from that point of view. As for wether Q-bus memory (or any other Q-bus peripherial) will work, I'll quote some signal descriptions. Chapter 7, page 7-4. Table 7-3 PMI Unibus Adapter Signals "Pin: CF1 Mnemonic: PUBSYS L PMI Unibus System In a Unibus system, PUBSYS L is asserted by the UBA to direct the KDJ11-B to follow PMI protocol for all data transfers, wether the PSSEL L is asserted or not. LSI-11 bus protocol is disabled for all PMI devices when PUBSYS L is asserted. In an LSI-11 system, PUBSYS L is always negated. If PSSEL L is negated, the KDJ11-B follows LSI-11 protocol and the PMI memory then responds to the LSI-11 protocol by the LSI DMA devices." Chapter 7, page 7-5. Table 7-4 LSI Bus Signals "Pin: AF2 Mnemonic: BRPLY L Reply During PMI cycles, BRPLY L is asserted by the KDJ11-B and the PMI slave to prevent the next bus master from gaining control of the bus too soon. In a Unibus system, BRPLY L is asserted by the UBA as a slave response during the PMI DATOB cycle and interrupt DATI cycle. *** NOTE *** The PMI memory slave modules in a Unibus system must have BRPLY L disabled at all times. Pin: AH2 Mnemonic: BDIN L Data Input The BDIN L signal is only used in PMI Unibus systems during interrupt grant cycles. The KDJ11-B asserts BDIN L after it gates the interrupt priority, BDAL bits <3:0>, onto the bus. The UBA then latches the interrupt priority data using the leading edge of BDIN L. Pin: AM2 Mnemonic: BIAKI L Interrupt Acknowledge In Pin: AN2 Mnemonic: BIAKO L Interrupt Acknowledge Out These signals are only used in PMI Unibus systems during the interrupt grant cycles. The KDJ11-B asserts the BIAKI L signal, and the UBDA acknowledges it by asserting one of the Unibus bus grant signals. Pin: BB1 Mnemonic: BPOK H Power OK This signal is only used in PMI Unibus systems for the Unibus power-up/power-down protocol. This signal is asserted and negated by the UBA in response to the Unibus AC LO signal. The assertion of AC LO may be prolonged by the Unibus devices or the PMI memory during power-up." I could go on describing more details on how these signals are used, since it's all described in the manual. Suffice to day that the KDJ11-B *knows* when it's in a Unibus system (i.e 11/84) and will not behave like a normal Qbus. First of all, it will always use PMI protocol to access memory, no matter what the memory might claim. Second, interrupt handling is done differently, since all interrupts are expected to be dealt with via the UBA. There are also schematics for different signals in the manual, and you can clearly find the PUBSYS L signal included in some decoder path as a way to force a specific behaviour independent of other signals that might exist. Now, can we now accept that it's not a Q-bus in the 11/84? :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

19 years, 1 month

NEC 7220's

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

Has anyone come upon a source of preferably NOS 7220's? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

19 years, 1 month

Original PC Needs Rescue

by yakowenk＠yahoo.com

Hey, all, I've got mail from somebody with an original IBM PC from the first batch to be sold by IBM to its own employees. Apparently they selected employees >from a list by lottery to determine what order to deliver them, this was in the middle of the list, delivered in October 1982. (Isn't that a little late for first batch? Was the production rate not up to demand at first?) Anyway, there are several pieces: system unit, keyboard, monitor, etc.; mostly (or all?) in original cartons with docs & software & such, some still in shrink wrap. There is also some amount of PS/1 stuff, available together with the PC stuff or separately, depending on who wants what, the order in which responses arrive, and the phase of the moon. This stuff is all in Colorado, but the owner is willing to pay shipping (presumably assuming domestic!) so the location doesn't much matter. I'll collect responses and forward them in a batch, and the owner will decide who to contact and so on. Cheers, Bill. ____________________________________________________________________________________Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php

19 years, 1 month

FOG DOS discs

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I wonder if there is > some sort of soaking that could be done to loosen the floppy from its > jacket The floppies were in VERY bad condition. Years of mosture, black mold on the labels, softening and general destruction of the oxide and binder including mold on the disk itself. Since there are thousands of discs to go through, the data may appear on later backups. I also have personally had problems with nasal infections >from working with contaminated material like this in the past, so I made the decision to discard them.

19 years, 1 month

PDP-11/84, PMI and Q-bus

by bqt＠softjar.se

Okay, since this topic have become a subject of much discussion and some diverse opinions, I decided to really read the manuals to try to find the bottom of this all. My main source of information here have been the "KDJ11-B CPU Module Users's Guide". EK-KDJ1B-UG-001 Now, to start with the position of the CPU card in an 11/84. Chapter 7, section 7.2. Page 7-1: "7.2 PMI INTERFACE The PMI interface signals are defined as the PMI bus master signals, the PMI slave signals and the PMI Unibus adapter signals. These interface signals are assigned to the C and D rows of the backplane and are defined as the interconnect bus. The PMI interface signals on the C/D bus are normally assigned two pins to provide an interconnection between the slots. The KDJ11-B module is only assigned one pin and therefore its position in the backplane is critical. The LSI bus signals that are used with the PMI protocol use the A and B rows of the backplane defined as the LSI bus." Now, if Pete is correct in that the PMI bus on the 11/84 really goes to both pins on all slots, then it should be okay to place the CPU in any slot. I haven't tried that, but I might when I have the time. I suspect he's right since otherwise I would have expected the CPU to be in slot 3. But DEC could be doing some fancy wiring... :-) The fact that the placement is critical is obvious if we talk about Q-bus systems, and I suspect the comment is written from that point of view. As for wether Q-bus memory (or any other Q-bus peripherial) will work, I'll quote some signal descriptions. Chapter 7, page 7-4. Table 7-3 PMI Unibus Adapter Signals "Pin: CF1 Mnemonic: PUBSYS L PMI Unibus System In a Unibus system, PUBSYS L is asserted by the UBA to direct the KDJ11-B to follow PMI protocol for all data transfers, wether the PSSEL L is asserted or not. LSI-11 bus protocol is disabled for all PMI devices when PUBSYS L is asserted. In an LSI-11 system, PUBSYS L is always negated. If PSSEL L is negated, the KDJ11-B follows LSI-11 protocol and the PMI memory then responds to the LSI-11 protocol by the LSI DMA devices." Chapter 7, page 7-5. Table 7-4 LSI Bus Signals "Pin: AF2 Mnemonic: BRPLY L Reply During PMI cycles, BRPLY L is asserted by the KDJ11-B and the PMI slave to prevent the next bus master from gaining control of the bus too soon. In a Unibus system, BRPLY L is asserted by the UBA as a slave response during the PMI DATOB cycle and interrupt DATI cycle. *** NOTE *** The PMI memory slave modules in a Unibus system must have BRPLY L disabled at all times. Pin: AH2 Mnemonic: BDIN L Data Input The BDIN L signal is only used in PMI Unibus systems during interrupt grant cycles. The KDJ11-B asserts BDIN L after it gates the interrupt priority, BDAL bits <3:0>, onto the bus. The UBA then latches the interrupt priority data using the leading edge of BDIN L. Pin: AM2 Mnemonic: BIAKI L Interrupt Acknowledge In Pin: AN2 Mnemonic: BIAKO L Interrupt Acknowledge Out These signals are only used in PMI Unibus systems during the interrupt grant cycles. The KDJ11-B asserts the BIAKI L signal, and the UBDA acknowledges it by asserting one of the Unibus bus grant signals. Pin: BB1 Mnemonic: BPOK H Power OK This signal is only used in PMI Unibus systems for the Unibus power-up/power-down protocol. This signal is asserted and negated by the UBA in response to the Unibus AC LO signal. The assertion of AC LO may be prolonged by the Unibus devices or the PMI memory during power-up." I could go on describing more details on how these signals are used, since it's all described in the manual. Suffice to day that the KDJ11-B *knows* when it's in a Unibus system (i.e 11/84) and will not behave like a normal Qbus. First of all, it will always use PMI protocol to access memory, no matter what the memory might claim. Second, interrupt handling is done differently, since all interrupts are expected to be dealt with via the UBA. There are also schematics for different signals in the manual, and you can clearly find the PUBSYS L signal included in some decoder path as a way to force a specific behaviour independent of other signals that might exist. Now, can we now accept that it's not a Q-bus in the 11/84? :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

19 years, 1 month

CiTOH terminals (was Re: Well, now I've gone and done it... Dragged home more big(ish) iron...)

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi I have just remembered how the later version keyboards worked. It was still a counter sytem but the values where fully decoded. It worked on a matrix system. Each key on the keyboard sat across the junction of one of the matrix points. The columns, say 16. Would be the output of a 4 in 16 out decoder and the rows were the inputs of a say 16 in four out encoder. Stopping the clock by pressing a key gave you an 8 bit keycode. Serialize in the usual way. Finally dedicated chips appeared. But same old matrix system. Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: 22 May 2007 13:58 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: CiTOH terminals (was Re: Well,now I've gone and done it... Dragged home more big(ish) iron...) On 5/22/07, Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > The 101 is the model shaped and colored much like a VT100. The > > keyboard looks similar... but its protocol is _not_ compatible with > > the VT100. > > Good thing I didn't buy the one on eBay a couple months ago. There was > a 101 there, and cheap too, but it had no keyboard. I may haev a few CiTOH terminals to drag to VCFmw if there's any interest. Closer to the event, I'll inventory what I have and see if I kept any spare keyboards "just in case", if anyone out there already has a terminal, but can't figure out why their VT100 keyboard doesn't work with it. I remember back in the day, since we had dozens of CiTOH and DEC terminals, looking over the available schematics for both and not being able to figure out how the keyboard works. I think it was a matter of inadequate/fuzzy docs more than anything else. Does anyone know of a good printset to pore over to see the nuts-and-bolts of a VT100-era keyboard? ISTR the crux of it was a 6402-type UART squeezing out the keystrokes at some slow baud rate, but I can't recall any essential details right now. I'm just curious if it's possible to swap a crystal or make a simple, switched change to allow one keyboard to work across both vendor's product lines. We used to have lots of dead keyboard when there was one or two terminals on everyone's desk. Since the company was shrinking at that stage, we never bothered fixing them - we just pulled one off a vacant desk and kept working. The number of working keyboards never shrank below the steadily decreasing size of the staff, so economically, it made sense. I think I only saved working keyboards in that set of 4 van loads, but it's entirely possible I picked up one or two dead ones. Right now, I have to search the pile for a VT100 keyboard to get my DECmate I back up and running so I can press it into service as an RX01/RX02 image archiver and finally whittle down my cartons of floppies. -ethan

19 years, 1 month

Well, now I've gone and done it... Dragged home more big(ish) iron...

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

Eh... another in a series of things _not_ to put into a Chevy Venture, this time featuring... A Vax 11/750 and a Vax 6210. Fortunately, this isn't going to be as bad to remove >from the van as those CDC drives were. I just need to talk some friends into helping me. But, I do want to try and get this 750 running soon. The TU58 has a bad roller (suprise, suprise) so I'll have to get some of that tubing I saw mentioned in the archives. But, I have no cartridges, so it does me little good to fix it... Any source of boot images for this critter so I can boot it with a tu58 simulator on a PC? Also, what do I really need in order to boot and install an OS, say, NetBSD? At the moment, I have no disks (anyone have a Unibus SMD controller?), or for that matter, a working, compatible tape drive (no pertec controller...). I assume that the machine needs to boot initally from TU58 every time, and then after that, it can bootstrap from disk or tape. I found the 11/750 FAQ, but it doesn't have a section for "I dragged home a big heavy Vax, now what?". Thanks! -Ian

19 years, 1 month

Norsk Data for pickup in the Netherlands

by dr.emiel＠xs4all.nl

I'm getting a bit short on space. So for who wants it, a have a Norsk Data ND-110 compact including manuals an software (Sintran) with a Tandberg terminal. It's only for pickup or DIY-shipment I'm not packing or posting this one. Gr. Rik contact me at : dr.emiel at xs4all dot nl

19 years, 1 month

digest mode

by ygehrich＠yahoo.com

I followed the FAQ to set to digest mode and it does not work. I then changed the destination to list at classiccmp.org and that does not work how do I change to digest mode

19 years, 1 month

CiTOH terminals (was Re: Well, now I've gone and done it... Dragged home more big(ish) iron...)

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

I don't know if it helps but I did work on terminals in the early 1970's. Before my days at DEC I did work on keyboards. The usual design was a counter going up to 127 or 255. Pressing a key pulled down the data lines for the number representing the value of the key. This was compared with the output of the counter and when they where the same the counter stopped. Thus at this point the counter held the value of the key. Some counters could be shifted (clocked) out serially or you transferred the value to a shift register and serialized the code that way. UARTS could be used like a shift register. (Parallel in serial out.) Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: 22 May 2007 13:58 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: CiTOH terminals (was Re: Well,now I've gone and done it... Dragged home more big(ish) iron...) On 5/22/07, Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > The 101 is the model shaped and colored much like a VT100. The > > keyboard looks similar... but its protocol is _not_ compatible with > > the VT100. > > Good thing I didn't buy the one on eBay a couple months ago. There was > a 101 there, and cheap too, but it had no keyboard. I may haev a few CiTOH terminals to drag to VCFmw if there's any interest. Closer to the event, I'll inventory what I have and see if I kept any spare keyboards "just in case", if anyone out there already has a terminal, but can't figure out why their VT100 keyboard doesn't work with it. I remember back in the day, since we had dozens of CiTOH and DEC terminals, looking over the available schematics for both and not being able to figure out how the keyboard works. I think it was a matter of inadequate/fuzzy docs more than anything else. Does anyone know of a good printset to pore over to see the nuts-and-bolts of a VT100-era keyboard? ISTR the crux of it was a 6402-type UART squeezing out the keystrokes at some slow baud rate, but I can't recall any essential details right now. I'm just curious if it's possible to swap a crystal or make a simple, switched change to allow one keyboard to work across both vendor's product lines. We used to have lots of dead keyboard when there was one or two terminals on everyone's desk. Since the company was shrinking at that stage, we never bothered fixing them - we just pulled one off a vacant desk and kept working. The number of working keyboards never shrank below the steadily decreasing size of the staff, so economically, it made sense. I think I only saved working keyboards in that set of 4 van loads, but it's entirely possible I picked up one or two dead ones. Right now, I have to search the pile for a VT100 keyboard to get my DECmate I back up and running so I can press it into service as an RX01/RX02 image archiver and finally whittle down my cartons of floppies. -ethan

19 years, 1 month

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