I've recently come into ownership of some Seagate
97229 1.2GB IPI interface hard drives. I just don't
have any equipment that can talk to IPI drives. So, I
was hoping to be able to convert these drives to work
on SMD. Since these look and seem almost identical to
the CDC/Seagate/Imprimis drives that I use already, I
thought it would be a simple interface board swap.
Granted, I don't have any 1.2gig drives, mine are 9720
8xx mb drives.
So, here's what I tried. I tried swapping both boards
(with believed good boards from a dead disk 8xx
drive). The main logic board from the 8xxmb drive fits
just fine - one of the connectors underneath has fewer
pins, but it mates up. I was hoping that this would
just mean the extra heads on the HDA would simply be
unused. Wishful thinking I know, but it doesn't work
at all - the power supply won't come on - this must
cause a dead short.
So, tried swapping back the original logic and
interface boards, and the drive spins up fine, comes
ready and seems OK. I swapped in the control/status
panel from the 8xx mb drive - this works just fine,
and the one I swapped in has the full LCD and keypad -
which work properly.
Tried swapping just the interface boards, this time
the drive displays a Fault on powerup, and while I can
get it to spin like this, it never comes ready. I even
tried swapping the firmware ROMs between the boards,
still doesn't work.
Now, I am imagining here that the incompatibilities in
parts are likely because I am using boards and parts
>from a different capacity of drive - I know that the
logic from a smaller drive would never work properly
on a larger one, I was just hoping that it might let
me use some of the surfaces. I don't have an SMD
interface 1.2gb drive to try this with - so I figured
I would ask - has anyone changed the interface of one
of these Sabre drives before? I can't imagine how the
HDA would be different between a 1.2gb IPI and a 1.2GB
SMD, but you never know. I've had luck before swapping
controllers between IDE and SCSI drives, and
occasional luck going between drives of slightly
different capacity.
What machines used IPI disks? I know that an IPI
controller was available for Sun3 VME based machines
(of which I have only ONE). Don't see anything listed
in the field guide about a qbus or unibus IPI
controller. What about larger Vaxen?
-Ian
> Interesting - they do state: "If you still have this item please
> contact Government Liquidation within 19 working days to coordinate
> the return of this property." So what happens if you do not 'have'
> this item any more.
This is exactly what End Use Certificates are for. They track the item
until it is destroyed.
In some cases of the past, with no EUC and the military knocking on
the door of someone who scraps an item, the result generally is not
horrible - they usually just want the important parts.
Extremely rarely does one get the Black Helicopter treatment.
--
Will
>From: Al Kossow <aek at spies.com>
>Subject: warning about dealing with Government Liquidation
>
>Apparently, G L sells items that in fact weren't supposed to be sold,
>forcing the buyers to return them!
>
>It only reimburses you for the cost of the item, not the shipping.
>
>Be VERY careful about what you buy through them!
>
>Read the fine print on the government as well as GL sales site agreement.
>
>This is the second incident like this I've heard about in the past week.
Hmmmmm
'Sorry guv, it turned out it wasn't what I wanted so I dumpstered it'
'terribly sorry old chap, I've already sold it on'
Or any other excuse you care to think up.
That's really lousy behaviour - they can't change the rules after you've
bought it, surely? And if they're going to add insult to injury by refusing
to pay shipping then they can hardly expect cooperation...
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
_________________________________________________________________
PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows
Live Hotmail.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migrati…
Has anyone on the list emulated one of the old vector scan displays on a
modern LCD Screen? Did you go through the raster scan logic or interface
directly to the LCD panel electronics? Is anybody working on this idea that
you know of?
It seems like some of the DEC system enthusiasts would be thinking about
this since the original Vector devices are so rare.
I have a belief that this is an idea that a lot of list members have thought
about; but has anyone put the idea into actual hardware?
Billy
Hey Sridhar,
is that a DEC 7000 or a VAX 7000 on one of your pictures ? Just out of couriosity...
Regards,
Pierre
>
>
> Most of the hardware hasn't been cabled up yet, and the hardware that's
> actually running isn't pictured because it's my network core and I won't
> put pictures of it on the internet for security reasons... BUT...
>
> Here are pictures of my machine room. It's a work in progress, but it
> shows what I've done to reinforce the floor.
>
> Because I've *decidedly* exceeded the floor loading capacity.
>
> Peace... Sridhar
>
_____________________________________________________________________
Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066
>I guess you're new enough here not to have heards that I don't own a
>scanner, annyhting to connect it to, or the nexessary eqipemnet to
>maintain the scanenr and machine-to-connect-it-to.
Ah, ok, sorry.
Anyway, here (http://www.hparchive.com/bench_briefs.htm) I found a few
documents with almost all hp parts cross-reference.
Roberto
Hi,
Urgh... my dial-up ISP of about 4 years has recently had a change in policy. Instead of a monthly payment of ?14.99, Boltblue.com have decided to make it free + local telephone charges (to telephone company).
This means paying Boltblue nothing and a bill of ?400 to BT :( What a con, are they trying to force me onto broadband??
Gonna go and search online for another dial-up ISP that does the monthly charge thing.
Has anyone else experienced anything like this??
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
Yes, just like all those other Heath(Robinson)kits produced about that
time.
Ros
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: 16 June 2007 22:33
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Strange VT50 Decscope
>
> Hi
> I vaguely remember a rumour about a cheap kit terminal to go with
> the Heathkit LSI-11.
> The boards are that paper based stuff you see in consumer electronics.
The thing that struck me about the PCBs in the VT5x was that they're
single-sided with a _lot_ of wire links.
-tony
Ah yes trees..
In the UK we have lots of individual trees, a fair few woods and
only a few forests.
If we go back to after the last ice age (about 10,000 years ago) the
reformed land (The land bridge to Europe went)
reverted to Northern forest modified by what my college tutor described
as 'Mexican bathwater'. Insofar as the gulf stream originates off the
coast of Mexico and is warm.
This has the effect of changing the mix of native trees from mainly
pines to favour more broad leaved species. Oak, Ash, Willow etc. The
only thing that prevents most of lowland UK reverting to mixed forest is
the presence of man.
If some disaster whiped out the human population in the UK then within
fifty years it would be back to forest.
Rod Smallwood
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of woodelf
Sent: 17 June 2007 01:14
To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Pictures of My Machine Room (So Far)
Teo Zenios wrote:
> Quite a bit of the wood they cut is stuff they planted a long time
> ago. The really old trees tend to be in national parks and they do not
> get cut down as far as I know. If you have never been to the US there
> are huge areas with nothing but trees, we have 300M people but there
> is plenty of unused land still (unlike old Europe). Not sure why we
> even import trees from Canada, must be cheaper I guess.
I am still not sure why Canada imports Trees too. Ikea comes to mind.
All we have around here is the cheap MFB stuff.
>
BTW, in regards to MESS, the MESS team is looking for copies of the
various TRS-80 Model II bootroms. The different models of the system
cannot be emulated without them, and they're available approximately
nowhere that I could find.
Jonathan Gevaryahu
jzg22 at drexel.edu
> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:44:49 -0400
> From: "David W. Erhart" <daviderhart at oldzonian.com>
> Subject: RE: Simulated CP/M-68K?
> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Message-ID: <16782425.32241181922289640.JavaMail.servlet at perfora>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
>> Someone on comp.os.cpm wanted to fiddle with the Alcyon C compiler
>> and asked if there is a simulation of CP/M-68K running under Unix.
>>
>> After a bit of digging, I couldn't find one, which was surprising.
>>
>> Does one exist? There are a few simulated 68K systems in MESS, but
>> none of them ran CP/M. It looks like a SAGE II simulation could be added
>> since the software and docs appear to be out there (doesn't look like
>> the SAGE IV boot prom has been dumped)
>>
>>
>>
>
> I have a working Sage IV and would be glad to help with a simulation project by providing boot prom dumps, docs, etc.
>
> david.
>
> ---
> http://www.sageandstride.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
I'd be happy to forward any documentation, boot roms, etc. to the MESS
team, if you're ok with that.
Jonathan Gevaryahu
jzg22 at drexel.edu
> Quite a bit of the wood they cut is stuff they planted a long time ago. The
> really old trees tend to be in national parks and they do not get cut down
> as far as I know. If you have never been to the US there are huge areas with
> nothing but trees, we have 300M people but there is plenty of unused land
> still (unlike old Europe). Not sure why we even import trees from Canada,
> must be cheaper I guess.
Actually they do cut trees in the National forests for the lumber industry. The Feds and State issue permits to the lumber companies to take a certain number of trees. Most of the trees they take in this area are mature hardwoods (Oak, Ash, etc..). I have seen the helecopters near my home lifting the logs out of the woods. It's expensive to remove them that way but, the environmental impact is lessened.
The revenue from the permits goes into a special account for underfunded or economically stressed local school programs. It has really helped the schools in this area (Western North Carolina). This particular program seems to be well managed and has the support of most of the locals.
This entire area was logged in the early 1900's so the trees they are removing today aren't really that old.
See ya, SteveRob
All:
I?m working on a 6502 project and I have a PC board CAD recommendation
question. I tried out the software that comes with ExpressPCB and it?s kind
of bogus. There?s no autorouter, which is exactly what I need (even if it?s
a basic router).
Does anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably priced schematics
capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
less.
Thanks!
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.comhttp://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
> > why americans (and other people) build houses all of wood :oO
> > Greetz from Brazil
> > Alexandre Souza
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Teo Zenios wrote:
> Because most houses are not in an earthquake zone, building with wood is
> faster and cheaper, and the US and Canada is full of forests.
The old addage "When in Rome do as the Romans do" applies here. In a previous life I was a general contractor in South Florida. The vast majority of homes there are Masonary blocks on a concrete foundation with wood truss roof system. The reasons are simple:
1) Termites - Zillions of them! You gotta keep wood away from the soil. Subterrainian termites can do massive damage in a relatively short period of time.
2.) Maintenence - Environmental exposure (Sun / Heat / Humidity) destroys wood.
3.) Insulation... In that climate large R values are not needed in walls or floors.
4.) No basements - Water level is too high. No basement means there's no need for wood flooring systems.
5.) Material availability. The ground in South Florida is largely limestone. It's one of the primary ingredents in concrete and it's easily crushed to make the aggregate (gravel). Concrete is probably cheaper there than anywhere else in the US.
6.) Hurricane protection - A concrete block structure with reinforced concrete tie-beam is MUCH stronger than a wood structure.
7.) Availablity of tradesmen familiar with the materials.
I recently moved to North Carolina where almost every home is wood frame construction. Once again "When in Rome..."
Apparently, G L sells items that in fact weren't supposed to be sold,
forcing the buyers to return them!
It only reimburses you for the cost of the item, not the shipping.
Be VERY careful about what you buy through them!
Read the fine print on the government as well as GL sales site agreement.
This is the second incident like this I've heard about in the past week.
----
To Whom It May Concern:
In Sale xxxx you were the successful bidder for Lot xxxx, Invoice number xxxxxx. Since the close of that
sale we have been notified by the Government that the demilitarization code for a DTID in this lot, has
changed to DEMIL ?D?, thus we?d like to inform you of the action required by you.
Description: DATA PROCESSING SET
Quantity: 1
NSN: 5862xxxxxx4434
DTID: SC44xxxxxx00VD
Because demilitarization code ?C? items require total destruction of the item and components so as to preclude
restoration or repair to a usable condition, we would like to make arrangements for you to return the above
DTID to the nearest Government Liquidation site. If you still have this item please contact Government
Liquidation within 19 working days to coordinate the return of this property. Once the property is returned
to a Site Manager with a copy of this letter, and the site manager signs and provides a copy to your
representative showing he/she has received the DTID a credit invoice will be created.
At 12:02 -0500 06/16/2007, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
>Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:31:22 -0400
>From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net>
> I?m working on a 6502 project and I have a PC board CAD recommendation
>question. I tried out the software that comes with ExpressPCB and it?s kind
>of bogus. There?s no autorouter, which is exactly what I need (even if it?s
>a basic router).
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably priced schematics
>capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
>do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
>less.
Osmond runs on OSX (and earlier Mac OS) and I've found it to be very
usable. I have not used the latest version so I can not comment on
the quality of the auto-router. However, you can try it for free.
If your design's pin (meaning inflection point of traces, I believe)
count is below a certain number, you can use it for free.
Regardless of your design's pin count, you can lay it out and route
it, but if your design reaches into the paying region, you won't be
able to output it. Still, that will let you try out the
auto-router without investing any money. If you do want to purchase
it, I think (IIRC) it is in the $200 region.
<http://www.swcp.com/~jchavez/osmond.html>
I've used it for a few board designs so far which I've output as
Gerber for manufacture and it has worked well.
Jeff Walther
At 12:02 -0500 06/16/2007, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
>Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:31:22 -0400
>From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net>
>Subject: PCB CAD Programs
>To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>Message-ID: <C298B5AA.6E2A%rcini at optonline.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>All:
>
> I?m working on a 6502 project and I have a PC board CAD recommendation
>question. I tried out the software that comes with ExpressPCB and it?s kind
>of bogus. There?s no autorouter, which is exactly what I need (even if it?s
>a basic router).
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably priced schematics
>capture and layout program for either Windows or Mac OSX that can autoroute
>do boards up to say 6? x 8?? When I say reasonable, I?m thinking $250 or
>less.
Osmond runs on OSX (and earlier Mac OS) and I've found it to be very
usable. I have not used the latest version so I can not comment on
the quality of the auto-router. However, you can try it for free.
If your design's pin (meaning inflection point of traces, I believe)
count is below a certain number, you can use it for free.
Regardless of your design's pin count, you can lay it out and route
it, but if your design reaches into the paying region, you won't be
able to output it. Still, that will let you try out the
auto-router without investing any money. If you do want to purchase
it, I think (IIRC) it is in the $200 region.
<http://www.swcp.com/~jchavez/osmond.html>
I've used it for a few board designs so far which I've output as
Gerber for manufacture and it has worked well.
Jeff Walther
Hi
This is all getting a bit complex. Its rather like a peculiar type
of English theatrical entertainment which happens around Christmas
called a Pantomime. One of the many strange customs is that under
direction from the stage one half of the audience shouts "Oh no it
isn't!!" and the other half replies "Oh yes it is!!" Don't ask me to
explain it any further. The rules of cricket and the plots in Chinese
opera are simpler.
So back to the original question:
If I want to build a Linux system I go to a distribution site (one of
many), download an .iso image, burn it into a standard 600Mb CD, boot
the CD and create a system. No funny block sizes, no odd file extensions
and no special SCSI drives. So what can I not do this for VMS without
the pantomime? A step by step known to work checklist would be a start.
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks
Sent: 14 June 2007 19:32
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Boot CD - The last LAP
On 6/14/07, Antonio Carlini <arcarlini at iee.org> wrote:
> Ethan Dicks wrote:
> > The joy of operating systems with enforced filename extensions. :-P
>
> To be fair, this is Nero assuming or enforcing! I can usually override
> Windows' defaults.
Strictly speaking, yes... but extension rigidity is a Windows mentality.
> > That will be the key - to get whatever tool you use to write
> > 512-byte blocks, not 2048-byte blocks.
>
> You cannot do this. The CD is always 2048 bytes per block. It is the
> drive that pretends that instead of N 2K blocks you have 4*N 512 byte
> blocks so it looks like a disk.
Ah... I had thought that the underlying filesystem was part of the
equation, not that the drive did all the work.
> This made life easier in the earlier days for the OpenVMS and Solaris
> (and IRIX?) driver writers ... and threw the rest of us another bump
> to trip over in the years to come!
I have worked with plenty of "starts up in 512-byte-block mode" issues
with old SCSI drives and Solaris - it does make boot code trivial
because you don't have to worry about the drive's block size. It was
nice with later versions of boot ROMs and such that knew that they could
and should send a packet to tell the drive to switch to 512-byte-block
mode, removing the need for special models of drives with mode jumpers.
Honestly, though, I haven't had to worry about it (except when playing
Software Archaeologist) in a long time, but then I don't burn ODS disks
often.
-ethan
Hi
I vaguely remember a rumour about a cheap kit terminal to go with the
Heathkit LSI-11.
The boards are that paper based stuff you see in consumer electronics.
Rod Smallwood
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Carder
Sent: 14 June 2007 20:11
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; General
Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Strange VT50 Decscope
>From: Vincent Slyngstad
>
>A friend of mine who is a former DEC employee once told me a war story
>about being given a "prototype" terminal to take home. He said the
>PCBs were thin, and kind of flexible, like the cardboard sheets in the
>back of a tablet of paper, and the thing was very tempermental -- even
>after you got it working again the MTBF was in hours. He said he
>eventually threw the accursed thing away.
>
>I wonder if this is one of those?
>
> Vince
It definitely sounds like one of these, except that the guy said he used
this one for about 6 years. I have posted more pictures of this odd
terminal. The board in the back is warped and kinda flimsy looking.
Check out the pictures:
http://www.woffordwitch.com/ProtoVT50.asp
Ashley
http://www.woffordwitch.com
http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Equipment-Corporation-Rainbow
-PC-1982_W0QQitemZ110138804739QQihZ001QQcategoryZ1247
QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Aussies must have something against keyboards. The
Tandy 2000 that appeared recently didn't have one
either! Apparently this dude is a collector too (look
in the background of the 2nd picture).
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat?
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
>
>Subject: Re: Pictures of My Machine Room (So Far)
> From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca>
> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:36:25 -0600
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>Alexandre Souza wrote:
>
>> Interesting how things are made in USA (?). Here everything is done
>> with brick and cement, you don't need usually to do what you did. I
>> still wonder why americans (and other people) build houses all of wood :oO
>
>At one time wood was cheap. So was brick a very long time ago.
>
>> Greetz from Brazil
>> Alexandre Souza
In many parts of the USA insulation is required as it's either very cold in
the winter or very hot in the summer. In some areas that seasonal change
can be exteme. Either way insulation can be easier to do with wood than
brick or stone.
FYI: I never store anything fragile in my shed out back as hotter than
54C in the summer and colder than -10C in the winter are all too common.
Those extremes are not good for electronics.
Allison
Any idea what a Telram T-3000 might be worth? Ran across a guy that
had 4 or 5 with original boxes, looking for me to make an offer. I
think he was looking for $200 or so each, which seemed a bit high to
me, but I really have no clue, and I didn't want to miss out if they
really are worth that kind of $$.
Not sure how old your post was that I googled, but you might have a
better idea than I.
Thank you!
Andrew.
> I guess in other words, if you had a 68000 processor with some
> attached RAM and a random UART (6551 or Z8530 or 8250/16450/16550),
> what else might you need to bring up CP/M-68K?
A mass storage device with CP/M bits on it with the right BIOS.
Since there are disc images and a boot prom for the Sage, I thought
it would be the easiest way to go. The alternative would be to bootstrap
it through cross-development tools, since all the sources are available.
At 03:07 PM 6/15/2007, Jason T wrote:
>On 6/15/07, Rick Murphy <rick at rickmurphy.net> wrote:
>
>>A process known to work (I used this to copy the VMS Hobbyist CD:
>>
>>dd if=/dev/cdrom of=vmscd.iso bs=32768
>>cdrecord vmscd.iso
>
>This thread has been educational - I had assumed that VMS and other OS
>discs were essentially "uncopyable" under PC software. So will the
>above process(es) also work with IRIX, NeXT, MacOSX and other format
>discs (sorry I don't know the proper names of those formats?)
The low-level format of a CD is defined by a standard that everyone
follows. That means that you can use simple low-level tools to copy
>from a CD (and copy back on to a blank CD-R). You can do the same thing
with SCSI disks for the same reason: it's just a bunch of bits with a
standard hardware interface; it doesn't matter what format the OS uses.
Using dd to copy from one disk to another works a treat when you're
using SCSI devices (modulo bad blocks, etc.)
For SCSI disk copying, it's best if the source and destination are the
same size. For a CD, that's taken care of.
-Rick
