test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Roger Holmes wrote: MOST????? STANDARD????? Rubbish! IBM 7094 - 36 bits. ICT 1301 - 48 bits. CDC 6600/7600 60 (or was it 64?) bits. CDC SC17 (not sure exact era) - 16 bits. Elliott 903/920B/905/920C/920ATC - 18 bits. Many of the BCD machines used 4 bit words I believe. Mid 60s ICL 1900 - 24 bits. What used 40 bits? > What about the MicroData machines with a build your own > instructions on the fly? Tell us more please. Microcoded or 'Extra code' ? > And then there were the ultra-strange like the G-15 - 29 bit word > size, all > instructions were modified moves through arithmetic logic or I/O > devices. > The I/O devices were actually part of the internal logic - no > channels. Actual physical memory, access my DMA from the device or just memory mapped I/O ? ----------------- Billy replies: This was a serial machine using a magnetic drum for memory. So the registers and memory were all bit serial and on the drum. I/O was accomplish by moving data from one line to another. The logic at each end of the line was in peripheral but the bits were on the drum. So it really doesn't fit the standard definition of memory mapped I/O, though that is the closest description. There were no channels per se. Al has just posted most of the G-15 manuals. Have a look. It certainly qualifies for the weirdest machine I ever worked on. ---------------- Roger Holmes: Remember? I am restoring/maintaining an ICT 1301 which has individual Germanium transistors, wire-OR, four and gates to a PCB, one flip- flop one a PCB, a clock derived from the timing track of the last addressed drum store, a core store unit weighing half a ton an stores just 2000 x 48 bit words (plus 2000 x 2 parity bits). Its got Ampex TM4 mag tape drives (not industry standard 7 or 9 track, these are ten track units with hubs the same design as professional audio tapes and the 2 and 3 inch wide video tapes once used by TV broadcasters). [Snip] --------------------- Billy: I salute you. I wish more people on this list had your energy and love of old metal and were restoring it. I enjoy hearing about your efforts. I'm also working on a germanium transistor wired-AND core memory machine. It used TM2's not TM4's. And I've been unable to find any tape units. Did find the original card reader, a modified Burroughs. Still, I consider what you are doing to be the true goal of classic computers. I read, enjoy and participate with the microprocessor based list threads. But my real love is in truly "classic" computers like yours. ---------------- Roger Holmes: > And many of them were wonderfully different and creative. Indeed. And some of them almost make you cry because so much more could have been done with the same amount of electonics. My machine has been modified to implement an index instruction. Previously all indexing and indirection had to be done by program modification, and even now subroutine return is done that way (see my previous e-mail). I have one machine in 'conserved' state, unmolested, unrepaired non- runner, and one with extra tweeks and darn right mass rewiring which runs and I can't stop thinking about how it could be improved, yet somehow manage to stop myself doing so. There are so many gaps in the instruction code and spare bits in the instructions etc. The only modification I am working on plugs into an extension port lashed up by a previous owner. This is to capture the data from the machine onto modern media. May replace with an RS232 interface later to drive a teletype and/or pen plotter, and/or a parallel inteface for a Friden Flexowriter. [sni] Roger Holmes. Classic computer collector, classic car collector, machine tool collector/user (for the prior mentioned hobbies), and for a job, programmer of CAD and graphic software and printer/plotter drivers for Apple computers.

18 years, 12 months

What are the really unusual or weird computers?

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Jay West wrote: SortofKindaNotReally MicroData Reality machines were firmware implementations of Pick (Reality), not software implementations. As a result, you couldn't actually microprogram the thing as an end user (normally). There *WAS* an EEPROM board that would replace the firmware board, but I don't believe that was typically released to the field. I used to have two M1600's (the early ones with the wood panels). One of them did have the EEPROM microcode option but I do know that particular unit was sent out from microdata "under the table". I had let these two machines slip through my fingers many years ago, long before I got into collecting. BUT - on the bright side - I found out a year or so ago that those two machines actually did wind up in the hands of another collector who is known to another listmember! I now have an M1600 that is the later metal panel variety, waiting to be restored. Even on the software implementations (which the microdata's weren't), you could create new missionary instructions from native instructions by playing some games in the 5-pass assembly process. However, this wouldn't technically be considered microprogramming as the "native" instructions would be just whatever the underlying cpu was (68000, PDP11, RS6000, x86, etc.). So you could create new virtual instructions, but still not really microprogramming. Jay -------------- I always thought the early MicroData systems were different from the Reality series. Looks like I was wrong. (Where is Jim Stephens when you need him? He has all these systems and the software to go with them.) Billy

18 years, 12 months

What are the really unusual or weird computers?

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: Quite honestly, I didn't know what the time frame of the original question was--I did mention the Univac SS-80, however--and I did make reference to strange designs of the 50s. But "computer" isn't very specific. How about the hybrid computers of the 60s? How about the "mostly diodes and not a lot of transistor" machines like the PB250? Some parameters for the original question might be helpful. Cheers, Chuck ----------------- Chuck, I agree with you on all your points. And add the Recomp jukebox series to the all diode machines. They had less than 100 flip-flops per system! Billy

18 years, 12 months

MP3 players

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Jay West wrote: I find it exceedingly difficult to consider this type of thread on-topic. Jay ---------------------- Jay, I agree with you in principle. But I've spent the last two years working on interfacing hard drives to MP3 players. They aren't old enough for the list, but technically, they employ a lot of computers folks like me. Billy

18 years, 12 months

Billy Pettit real disappointment

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Jay West wrote: Billy wrote... >> Come on people: there were computers long before there were >> microcomputers. I seem to remember a recent post complaining that this list was nothing but minicomputer and big-iron talk, no microcomputer discussion. Apparently that was wrong, as now there is a complaint it's just micro talk? ;) Jay ------------ Jay, I wasn't complaining about the list or the subject matter - I'm quite content to see all sorts of ramblings, even some off subject. I was trying to make the point that a computer built around a microprocessor is not particularly weird or unusual - The subject of the thread. Billy

18 years, 12 months

LISA

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> So, does anyone know what happened to that 90,000+ lines of (Pascal) Source Code for LOS? Last time I saw it, it was on a Lisa in the source control library at Apple > It would sure been neet to be able to look at it. I agree. The Computer History Museum is willing to archive it. All you have to do is ask Steve to release it. I'm sure he has nothing better to do today.

18 years, 12 months

RX02 parallel port interface (was Re: Linux PCB CAD software?)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 6/29/07, Bruce Ray <bkr at wildharecomputers.com> wrote: > Before leaving the RX01 topic, note that Chuck's design was implemented > using the Cadsoft Eagle years ago and is available at: > > http://www.wildharecomputers.com/download/rx0x/rx01-b.zip > > A minor update is at: > > http://www.wildharecomputers.com/download/rx0x/rx01-d.zip Thanks for those. > The idea of putting an SX-28 processor in control of the communications and > using a native USB interface resulted in the (untested) derivative design > at: > > http://www.wildharecomputers.com/download/rx0x/rx-usb.zip I'll have to look at that. I have, in hand, an ATMEGA8 bridging USB to a textual LCD panel for LCDproc / LCD4LINUX, etc. The USB implementation is in software, keeping the project cost quite low ($3.25 for an ATMEGA8 in low quantities, AFAIK). I might have to see if I can take what you have there and see if an ATMEGA8 can do it, too. I hate the fact that the parallel port is vanishing, but since I can't keep it from happening, I might as well attempt to keep classic peripherals working with hardware that's out now and in the near future. -ethan

18 years, 12 months

Seagate ST1480N termpwr jumpers

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Does anyone happen to have a reference for the termpwr jumpers on a Seagate ST1480N 425MB SCSI disk? The only online reference I've found so far is set out to use the old DOS font with line drawing characters in it, and nothing I've been able to find in Firefox (or elsewhere in Linux) has been able to display it properly :-( I know the termpwr jumpers are 7 and 8 down the left side of the drive, but deciphering the characters used in the corresponding truth table is proving tricky. (I've having another look at the NeXT Cube; I assume that the drive is currently expecting termpwr from the bus, but the NeXT isn't supplying it) ta J.

18 years, 12 months

Semi-OT: Interesting or unusual PC Compatibles?

by feldman.r＠comcast.net

>Message: 13 >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:18:09 -0400 >From: "Jason McBrien" <jbmcb1 at gmail.com> >Subject: Re: Semi-OT: Interesting or unusual PC Compatibles? >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >On 6/26/07, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: >> In the "odd PCs" department, I have to mention the Seequa >> Chameleon. It has an 8088 and a Z80, so it can run DOS, CP/M-80, or >> CP/M-86. >The DEC Rainbow 100 was a similar machine, it had a 8086 and a Z/80, and >could triple (or quad) boot into CPM/80, CPM/86, MS-DOS, or act as a VT-220 >via hardware emulation. It didn't get far as it used wacky 400Kb single >sided quad density floppies that hardly anyone else used. According to >Wikipedia, DEC even ported Windows 1.0 to it. Add the Otrona Attache 8:16 to that list. It used an 8086 daughter card to run MS-DOS 2.11. It had trouble with WordPerfect, though, as the keyboard did not have the PC function keys. It also did PC graphics in software, so a program like Borland's Reflex database redrew the screen _very_ slowly when you scrolled. >A couple more oddities- >The Tandy 2000 was one of the few 80186 based clones, and ran well behaved >MS-DOS apps, though it had somewhat oddball video hardware, keyboard and >serial port setup. It required a custom version of DOS, and MS even ported >Xenix to it. The HP 100LX/200LX palmtops used a custom 80186 and ran most DOS applications, running MS-DOS 5.0 from ROM. There could be problems with the LX's graphics, which was 640x200 CGA with some quirks. >The Atari Portfolio was probably the first palmtop device that ran DOS apps, >though it was such a wacky architecture it's software support was limited. The Poqet came out shortly after the Portfolio, IIRC. Ran quite a few DOS apps under MS-DOS 3.3 -- the Poqet PC website (http://www.bmason.com/PoqetPC/faq/poqetpc.html) calls it "about 99.9% compatible with the original IBM/PC-XT desktop computer." >The HP 100 series were some of the first laptop computers that could run >DOS. It had DOS, Basic, Lotus and a few other productivity apps in ROM, and >used the somewhat odd HP-IL bus to interface with peripherals, among them a >battery powered disk drive.

18 years, 12 months

HP7202A Schematics questions

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

>>>http://www.woffordwitch.com/HP7202A.asp >>> >>>and click on the link at the bottom of the page. >> >> Can someone help me understand these old HP schematics? > >I can't see them. I get "The page cannot be found". > > Vince Sorry, the first time I mis-typed the URL. Here's the correct one: http://www.woffordwitch.com/HP7202.asp Ashley

18 years, 12 months

Telephony switches - is there anyone out there collecting these?

by James＠jdfogg.com

> Are there people out there, on the list or otherwise, that > are actively collecting these machines? Admittedly, unlike a > PDP8 you can use (as Dave McGuire does) on a daily basis, a > twelve ton NEAX isn't too 'dramatic' as an attention piece. > But, according to my little book here, they tend to be > multiprocessor, reel-to-reel storage (as they 'reboot' so > infrequently they need a very long-lasting storage medium), > all sorts of good stuff. > And with an average "Mean time between failure of 1 failure > in 40 years"... boy, that just speaks for it. > > So, anyone out there have one of these in their... basement? I'm into telephony, but not on the CO-sized equipment. I've had many PBX's in my houses over the years. Everything from an AT&T 1A2 system (relay based) to an AT&T System 75. Along the way I've had AT&T, Siemens, Nortel, Lucent, Iwatsu, Mitel, NEC and others. At this point I'm using a 32 line, 128 station Iwatsu ZTD. I have many digital (Key) phones for it, operator/programmer consoles, doorphones, analog and digital (Key) station cards, ringer supplies, relay boards and lots of other neet options for them. And I have the all-important documentation to make it run. It's one of these. http://shorterlink.org/2642 (ebay link) The only old CO equipment I know of in private hands is a guy in Pennsylvania that runs a boys camp on a Strowger (relay CO).

18 years, 12 months

HP7202A Schematics questions

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

>>The interface has a 15 pin male adapter, with >>8 pins on top and 7 on bottom. >> >>I have added a link to the schematics at the bottom of >>the HP7202A Plotter page on my web site. >> >>Go to: >> >>http://www.woffordwitch.com/HP7202A.asp >> >>and click on the link at the bottom of the page. > >Can someone help me understand these old HP schematics? >I see the 15 adapter pins shown at the top right of the >page, and see where one of the pins (# 5) appears to go >to something labeled EIA IN on the "Logic Mother Board" >section. Some pins (3, 4, and 6) appear to not be >connected to anything. Most of the others seem to go >to the Analog Mother Board, but I am not sure how to >follow them from there. What would be nice is if I >could get enough of an understanding from this schematic >to figure out how to construct both a 20mA adapter and >an EIA (RS232) adapter, or an adapter that has the 15 >pin connector on one end, and two connectors on the >other end (one for 20mA and one for EIA). I apologize for posting an incorrect link to the schematics. They can be found at the bottom of the following page: http://www.woffordwitch.com/HP7202.asp Ashley http://www.woffordwitch.com

18 years, 12 months

Old Modems and Telephony switches

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

> How about early modems, anyone collect them? Not nearly as intensively as I'd like to (lack of space, for the most part), but I do have one big old (originally Telco-rented) Siemens 1200 baud leased-line modem. The usual couple of paperback-sized "modern" modems (up to 28.8 kbps, I think) - they're one of those items where people always seem to misplace the wall warts and that just as invariably don't state their power requirements on the case. Not oftenly used but kept "just in case". I've got a lead on some four-wire and X.25 ("frame relay"?) stuff from University and just yesterday I got my second ADSL modem. What would it take to set up or "simulate" their counterpart (DSLAM?) at home? Concerning other phone stuff, I do have one relay-based master/slave (or is that boss/secretary?) switch, one or two analog PBXen and one proprietary unit by Telenorma (for which I don't have the displayphones you need at least one of for programming). On the ISDN side, just two phones (one missing its local power supply too - duh), one or two PC cards and an NTBA so far. You can't even make the two phones talk to each other using just the NTBA (as long as you don't have ISDN service) afaik, so I'm looking for an ISDN PBX as well (or some other suggestions how to have some fun with that stuff). So long, -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kanns mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger

18 years, 12 months

AVAIL: Xerox 630 Memorywriter system disks

by marasco＠insightbb.com

I might be interested in your Xerox 630 Memorywriter system disks. Please email me at davidsharon at insightbb.com with price. Thanks, David This transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person(s) or organization(s) to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete this transmission. Thank you for your cooperation.

18 years, 12 months

Seagate ST1480N termpwr jumpers

by cheri-post＠web.de

Jules, have a look at the biggest database for harddisk drives: www.pc-disk.de All you have to do is to click on "producer", then on the left, you can navigate down to the Seagate drives. For the ST1480N, there is the layout of the PCB and the jumper definitions where the termination power is pointed out as well. Regards, Pierre > > > Does anyone happen to have a reference for the termpwr jumpers on a Seagate > ST1480N 425MB SCSI disk? > > The only online reference I've found so far is set out to use the old DOS font > with line drawing characters in it, and nothing I've been able to find in > Firefox (or elsewhere in Linux) has been able to display it properly :-( > > I know the termpwr jumpers are 7 and 8 down the left side of the drive, but > deciphering the characters used in the corresponding truth table is proving > tricky. > > (I've having another look at the NeXT Cube; I assume that the drive is > currently expecting termpwr from the bus, but the NeXT isn't supplying it) > > > ta > > J. > _______________________________________________________________________ Jetzt neu! Sch?tzen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 3 Monate kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=022220

18 years, 12 months

Old Telephony Switches - Available/Free

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

Speaking of old telephony switches...my building seems to have been once a telephone relay substation. If anyone is really interested in having this stuff, let me know privately and I can take pictures, etc. There are a lot of old component cards, wires, wall boxes, etc. "Western Electric" etc. in the basement. I do not know much about this stuff. Looks like it was last upgraded in the mid 70's. Location - Wilmington, Delaware USA Bill

18 years, 12 months

What are the really unusual or weird computers?

by mike.hatch＠mclennan.co.uk

My experience is SDS9300 - 24bit Elliott 803B - 39bit - one restored and working at Bletchley Park Digital PDP-7 - 18 bit Digital PDP11-45 LEO 326 - ? bits can't remember > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:01:16 +0100 > From: Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> > Its got Ampex > TM4 mag tape drives (not industry standard 7 or 9 track, these are > ten track units with hubs the same design as professional audio tapes > and the 2 and 3 inch wide video tapes once used by TV broadcasters). Our SDS9300 had TM4 drives but I don't remember them being 2 and 3 inch wide, I thought they were 0.5 inch, but then that was 35years ago. The Elliott 803B had 35mm tape drives, sprocket driven, derived from film handlers, tape made by Kodak. Mike Hatch Looking for a PDP-7 (some hope!)

18 years, 12 months

Billy Pettit real disappointment (Vol46 Iss78 M16)

by mike＠brickfieldspark.org

----- Original Message ----- From: <cctalk-request at classiccmp.org> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Not enough UK list members, I suspect. I don't know where they all are... > not > on uk.comp.vintage, that's for sure. Maybe there are just more > vendor-specific > mailing lists for the UK scene [1] than there are for the US or something. > Newbie here Uk based. > A big Venn diagram with DEC in the middle? ;-) > I'd go for that Mike Hatch Looking for a PDP-7 (some hope!)

18 years, 12 months

What are the really unusual or weird computers?

by mike.hatch＠mclennan.co.uk

My experience is SDS9300 - 24bit Elliott 803B - 39bit - one restored and working at Bletchley Park Digital PDP-7 - 18 bit Digital PDP11-45 - LEO 326 - ? bits can't remember > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:01:16 +0100 > From: Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> > Its got Ampex > TM4 mag tape drives (not industry standard 7 or 9 track, these are > ten track units with hubs the same design as professional audio tapes > and the 2 and 3 inch wide video tapes once used by TV broadcasters). Our SDS9300 had TM4 drives but I don't remember them being 2 and 3 inch wide, I thought they were 0.5 inch, but then that was 35years ago. The Elliott 803B had 35mm tape drives, sprocket driven, derived from film handlers, tape made by Kodak. Mike Hatch Looking for a PDP-7 (some hope!)

18 years, 12 months

Billy Pettit real disappointment

by dm561＠torfree.net

------------------Original Message(s): Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:52:56 -0700 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: Billy Pettit real disappointment To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4683D958.2968.16663E7 at cclist.sydex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On 28 Jun 2007 at 14:52, Jules Richardson wrote: > Yet another oddity discovered today: it would seem that the rotating magnetic > fixed-head disk in the Burroughs L-2000/3000/4000/5000 machines wasn't for > secondary storage (as I'd assumed), it was the primary store in place of the > core typically found in systems of the time. I bet there can't be many > machines around which had rotating store as the primary memory. Not at all uncommon during the 1950's. (e.g. LGP-30) In fact, the Univac SS-80 that I mentioned not only has a drum as main memory, but it's synchronized to the card reader. There were two machines in the Univac "Solid State" series; the SS-80 for conventional 80-column Hollerith cards and the SS-90 for Univac 90- column cards. The layout on the drum was different for each. The "solid state" refers not to transistors (which were used mostly to drive indicator lamps), but rather to the magnetic cores used not for memory, but for logical operations; one clock cycle per core. The master clock was driven with 6 4X150 power tetrodes. Very unusual--and very reliable for its day. Cheers, Chuck -----------------Reply: Nevertheless unusual for a machine in the L's size and price point; these were essentially desk-sized accounting computers (posting machines) used in banks and numerous small offices. The sealed fixed-head disks were indeed very reliable; secondary storage (when there was any, other than hard copy ledger cards) was on PPT, EPC and on some models mag stripe cards and up to 4 digital cassette drives. Later models (L6000 onwards) used 2102 RAMs ($800/2K). BTW, the L's predecessor (E series) did use core memory and a device called a core counter, a special core that emitted a pulse for every 10th pulse in. And to link this to another thread, I believe I still have a copy of Lunar Lander for the L series; no display of any kind, just a Selectric type golf ball printer. And speaking of golf balls, there was also a golf game for them, as well as lots of ASCII art. Here's hoping that one of the few people who have one of these (other than Bletchley) will manage to get one going one of these days... mike

18 years, 12 months

old modems (was Telephony switches)

by silent700＠gmail.com

Not my first modem (that would have been the Vicmodem on the CBM Vic 20,) but probably the oldest one I put to actual use was an Andersen-Jacobson 300 baud model. It has disappeared into the maze of junk in my basement so I don't have the full spec on it. But it was direct connect, had heavy-duty toggles on the front and a classy woodgrain veneer on the top and sides :) Believe it or not I used it from about 1993-1995, in the leaner days when a lot of my gear came from the dumpster at the local community college.

18 years, 12 months

What are the really unusual or weird computers?

by dm561＠torfree.net

-----------------Original Message: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:50:40 -0400 (EDT) From: der Mouse <mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Subject: Re: What are the really unusual or weird computers? > It is too bad Windows and the PC group didn't continue the > OpenFirmware concept. [...] It was a bad move that has cost > millions if not billions of dollars worth of lost productive time. I think having an OS that crashes weekly - daily, or worse, in many cases - and needs a complete ground-up reinstall at least annually has cost their customers far more. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ------------------Reply: I usually ignore the MS- and WIN-bashing that is apparently a basic requirement for anyone wishing to be taken seriously in the computing field, but just for the record: My main system has been running Win98SE more or less 24/7 since it was released and although the hardware has been upgraded several times it has never had a ground-up reinstall (although I will do one Real Soon Now). Yes, although a BSOD is a very rare event, it does misbehave occasionally but that's not surprising considering all the obscure software that has been installed on it over the years. I have never lost any data (except as a result of my own carelessness) and except for a couple of virus incidents all that's required when it does misbehave is a reboot while I get a cup of coffee. My clients' systems with much more stable software environments are even more reliable and any problems are almost always hardware or operator related; even monthly crashes would not be tolerated for long. If your system crashes daily or even weekly, I'd recommend that you find a qualified computer professional to fix it for you... mike

18 years, 12 months

What are the really unusual or weird computers?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: What are the really unusual or weird computers? > From: "Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:36:50 +0100 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 25/06/07, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: >> On 25 Jun 2007 at 18:14, Liam Proven wrote: >> >> > I am a biker myself - pedal and motorcycles both - and don't know much >> > about cars, but I don't believe I've ever seen a car with a starter >> > button. Maybe in a museum. >> >> Liam, you must not be old enough. Most cars made before 1951 or so >> had one--I clearly recall the one on my aunt's 1950 Hudson. My brother had a '69 baracuda when a few performance mods that the ignition lock was only to "enable" it and the button for the starter was under the dash where a foot could do it. Securtity by obscurity. >But American cars are /weird/ compared to the rest of the world. (I >live in Europe and have travelled extensively there, grew up in Africa >and have visited Asia as well as N America.) Really! I had a Saab that had a three cylinder engine that burnt two cycle mix (oil in gas) like an old outboard. If that wasn't weird enough starting was turn on ignition, set choke and pull cord. Yes it had a pull cord to start it no electric starter. >Automatic transmission seems ubiquitous, which AFAICT is pretty much >unique to N America, /but/ most people still drive these huge, >tank-like petrol-guzzling monsters, whereas the rest of the world >(that can afford new cars at all) prefers smaller, lighter, more >efficient machines which cope better with traffic and produce less >waste and environmental damage - though that's incidental to their >owners for the large part, what matters is that they are cheaper.) I drive a toyota small pickup 2.2liter engine (smallest) and dirt cheap to feed and lots of room for racks! Great for gathering system and all. >It's too fiddly that way, but then, I mainly drive Windows with the >keyboard anyway. And since I prefer and use 20yo IBM Model M >keyboards, I don't have a Windows key, either - so it's Ctrl-Esc, up, >return, return. :?) I do that and people watching are amazed it's possible! Really helpful when the mouse quits or worse isn't recognized for some odd reason. I just wish someone would make a PC keyboard without the numeric keypad at all, just slice it off to the right of the cursor keys and get rid of four inches of wasted space. Allison

18 years, 12 months

Classic HP forums?? - plotter questions

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

>>Does the service manual contain schematics? If so, it should >>be easy to find out which pins are used. > >I am scanning the schematics right now and will post them >shortly. If somebody can take a look at them and decipher >them for me, that would be GREATLY appreciated! The interface has a 15 pin male adapter, with 8 pins on top and 7 on bottom. I have added a link to the schematics at the bottom of the HP7202A Plotter page on my web site. Go to: http://www.woffordwitch.com/HP7202A.asp and click on the link at the bottom of the page. Ashley http://www.woffordwitch.com

18 years, 12 months

Bos Cobol

by w.bor＠voskuilen.nl

Hi Chuck, Are you still developing with Bos Cobol? Best, Wim

18 years, 12 months

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test-drb