test-drb

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101090 discussions

newbie building a scratch-built computer

by classiccmp＠memory-alpha.org.uk

Hi, > IMHO, more important than the EPROM programmer is an >EPROM emulator.... Good point, and the exact reason I picked up a "Softy S3" about 10 years back (which is in SERIOUS need of TLC unfortunately). Great little unit, it's an EPROM programmer/emulator in a package about the size of a large pocket calculator. Dump your code into it via a serial port and enter emulation mode for testing, when you're done just drop in a blank EPROM and hit the "burn" button. :-) I really should get this thing working again.... TTFN - Pete.

18 years, 10 months

Looking for an 8" drive

by silvercreekvalley＠yahoo.com

Anyone with a 8 inch drive available. I'd prefer DS/DD but frankly anything considered. I'm trying to put together an external 8" drive for a PC to allow archiving of 8" disks. Reply of list. Many thanks. Ian. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/

18 years, 10 months

Seattle cctalk'ers

by legalize＠xmission.com

I'm going to be up in Seattle next week on Sun/Mon/Tue for the Microsoft GameFest developer event. I think there's some time on one of the evenings where there isn't a party scheduled :-). Anyone care to meet for a beer or something? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

18 years, 10 months

UK VCF?

by tim.walls＠snowgoons.com

Pete Turnbull said: > On 05/08/2007 21:10, Tony Duell wrote: >>> Hire a genny. >> >> How stable is the frequency of such a unit? Remember many larger disk >> drives have their spindle speed set by mains freqeucy. > > To say nothing of the fact that the output is often nothing like a sine > wave, and many devices don't take kindly to that. Thanks to Yorkshire Electricity Distribution Ltd. being bloody useless, I am considerably more intimate with my building's generator than I was a few short weeks ago, so this is a subject close to my heart! Anyway, the long and the short is that gennys certainly can produce reliable power - more reliable than YEDL, anyway. Our unit is an Iveco 6l 4-stroke diseasel driving a MarelliMotori genset, generating 150Kva of 440v 3phase. Output voltage and frequency are programmable, and frequency stability calibration is documented in the manual. Modern gennies would be more than capable of doing the job, and should be readily available for short-term lease. You'd be surprised how quiet and clean-running they are as well. Fuel isn't cheap though; IIRC running it at ~75% load it uses something in the order of 200 litres/day of diesel; it should be OK to use red diesel in a genny I think (for non-UKers - red diesel is diesel on which fuel tax hasn't been paid,) but you're still looking at a fair old cost. Oh, and to answer the original question - I'm up noorf in Yorkshire, although I'd actually prefer such an event to be in London. I'd be interested in going if it does happen, anyway. Cheers, Tim. PS. Word of advice - check the fuel controller pump relay. Nothing more annoying than being woken up at 3am because a poxy 5 quid relay has stuck and caused the header tank to run dry. Voice of bitter experience there ;-). (On the bright side, if that does happen I can now show you how to hand-prime a dry diesel engine :^).) -- Tim Walls at home in Leeds EMail & MSN: tim.walls at snowgoons.com

18 years, 10 months

PCjr bus to 8 bit ISA bus adapter

by mbbrutman-cctalk＠brutman.com

I finally got around to reverse engineering and understanding my PCjr bus to 8 bit ISA bus adapter. The details are here: http://www.brutman.com/PCjr/pcjr_isa_adapter.html If you are interested give it a read and send me your comments; I'm kind of interested in making sure that I've not written something blatantly wrong. In the interest in keeping the noise level here low please consider whether a comment should be public or off-list ... Thanks, Mike

18 years, 10 months

newbie building a scratch-built computer

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: newbie building a scratch-built computer > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 14:54:42 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > >On Aug 5, 2007, at 4:16 AM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: >>> Not the best choice, IMHO, a better one you might find at >>> www.willem.org. >>> There are commercial clones as well, like the one from >>> www.silvotronic.de >>> (board, kit available through ePay for instance). I have bought a >>> kit from >>> them and they work fine. >> >> One caveat with the willem programmers is that there really is only >> Windows software available for them. It works well under Wine with a >> bit of messing about. > > That in itself is a good reason to avoid them, in my opinion. I >have two or three useless PC-based EPROM programmers sitting in >various boxes in the garage. They're useless because the >manufacturer has orphaned them (or just plain gone out of business) >and I either lost the software, or it only runs under some release of >Windows that isn't easily available anymore. (and I'll be damned if >I'm going to have a Windows machine here just to run an EPROM >programmer!) > > Anything worth doing is worth doing right. Get a standalone >device programmer, not one that pretends to be a computer >peripheral...or worse yet, a "Windows PC peripheral". With a real >device programmer, you won't get locked into the whims of the >manufacturer (at least not as easily), or worse yet, the whims of >Microsoft. Having an important tool depend on an unreliably, >proprietary operating system from one manufacturer who is well-known >for sleazy business practices sure doesn't sound to me like a smart >way to run. > > I used a Data I/O 2900 for many years, and I absolutely loved it. >I recently replaced it with a Data I/O Unisite...a big beefy one with >a hard drive. It's Good Stuff(tm) and can program pretty much >anything. When designing or repairing something, I never have to >stop and worry about whether or not I can program a particular >device. These machines have floppy drives, and can deal with DOS- >formatted disks (which most anything can write) and understand >literally dozens of different file formats. They can also be >remotely controlled via a *STANDARD* serial port, and the protocol is >simple and openly documented. > > Like I said...anything worth doing is worth doing right. DataIO is nice but if you don't have one the next best is anything that has an interface that is easily coded for or the code is available. I use a S100 Prommer and have the sources so the end result was a SBC880, RAM-17 and an old 4slot mother using a PC power supply to make a dedicated programmer with a serial port to any host. The nice part about Eproms is they are standardized. Allison

18 years, 10 months

newbie building a scratch-built computer

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: newbie building a scratch-built computer > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 21:21:07 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >[EPROM emulatoros] > >> *) Maybe your and my programming strategy differs; now with SW emulators >> for almost any old CPU being available ona PC, I tend to test my code in > >It does. Remember I don't have anything that will run such an emulator at >anything like a reasonable speed. For test reasons often not a requirement to run at near real speeds. Sometimes slower is good for testing, most sims can do things even a hardware front pannel would envy. Usually I use a spare 486dx/66, certainly not lightining fast but enough to test to see if the code even runs and usually decently fast. the P1mmx/166 I use for email and stuff runs Myz80 and Dunfields NS* Horizon (4mhz z80) and CUBIX (6809) SIMs all run close to or better than real speeds. Thats good enough considering the tools they provide as an offset if any. >Anyway, I like to write little test programs to run on the target >hardware (maybe just outputing a message through the serial port, or >blinking some LEDs, or...). Just to make sure the target is doing >something sensbile. I prefer to run on hardware too but, there are times when a my 486/75 laptop is at hand and I'm way from my bench so why not? Allison

18 years, 10 months

The late, great TRS-80

by theresa＠explainamation.com

The True Story of Microcomputer Pioneers 2007 is the 30th Anniversary of the TRS-80! Only $19.95 348 pages, with full Index 121 illustrations Priming the Pump: How TRS-80 Microcomputer Enthusiasts Helped Spark the PC Revolution takes you back to the largely unknown origins of personal computing. We wrote this book from personal experience, since we were part of the community of small software entrepreneurs from those days. The First Off-the-Shelf Microcomputer We tell the story of how Steve Leininger, working alone in an old saddle factory in Fort Worth, built the first TRS-80; its total development costs were less than $150,000. He had to make a product that could be sold for a price Radio Shack customers could afford. Yet no one had ever sold a complete off-the-shelf mass market personal computer before. The TRS-80 took the microcomputer from an expensive device built by electronic hobbyists to something anyone could buy and operate. Introduced in August 1977, the TRS-80 Model I from Tandy Corporation was sold in Radio Shack's 3500 stores across the nation for the modest price of $599.95. It all began in the late 1970s when a computer hobbyist at Tandy Corporation, Don French, suggested to his bosses that they should build and sell a computer. The Tandy managers were dubious that anyone would buy it, but they paid a visit to Silicon Valley and finally hired a young engineer, Steve Leininger, to come to Ford Worth and build a computer. Leininger siezed an opportunity to do hands-on work with the new microchips that hobbyists were using to build their own computers. The result of his efforts was the revolutionary TRS-80 Model I, a product so successful that Tandy Corporation found itself overwhelmed with orders it was not ready to fill. But as eager customers finally got their hands on their very own computer, for the first time, they could experiment with software. Now anyone could affordably use word processing, spreadsheets, accounting, database and other kinds of software... as soon as someone wrote programs to perform those functions and made them available. And enterprising individuals working in basements and garages did create those programs. By the early 1980s, as the first wave of software entrepreneurs sold their wares through the bulging pages of 80 Micro magazine, customers had a big choice of software. The Real Story, From the People Who Lived It In our case, I (David Welsh) was one of those self-taught programmers. My word processor, Lazy Writer, was sold worldwide to enthusiastic fans who were eager to dump their typewriters. My wife, Theresa, created our product literature, dealt with dealers and customers and managed our office. These were extraordinary years, when software was new and everyone was learning. It was before Microsoft was a household word, and when software generally had only one author. Programmers were proud of fitting useful features into limited memory, and some became stars. Incredible Stories, All True! a.. John Roach, Tandy's product manager, got an agreement from Charles Tandy to build 3500 units after Leininger demonstrated the prototype; this was exactly the number of stores they had -- Roach figured if no one bought the computers, at least the stores could use them. Don French, a true believer, predicted they'd sell 50,000 the first year and urged the company to gear up the factory for mass production. Tandy managers, thinking they could never sell that many, were surprised when, in the weeks after the introduction, the Tandy switchboard was paralyzed with over 15,000 calls from people wanting to order a TRS-80. In the first year, over 250,000 people went on waiting lists to buy a TRS-80! b.. Tandy contracted with Randy Cook to create a Disk Operating System (TRSDOS) for its next generation TRS-80, which would come with floppy disk drives. The company agreed Cook would retain ownership of the code. But Cook, believing Tandy violated the agreement, created a rival DOS which he sold through his own company. Clueless Tandy managers found Cooks' name embedded in the TRSDOS code. c.. TRSDOS replacements appeared - five of them - and programmers made up their own homespun magazine ads touting their products great features and attacking their rivals' products in the pages of magazines like 80 Micro, the most popular of many publications devoted to the TRS-80. d.. Wayne Green, publisher of popular computer magazines, promised to "editorially break" Radio Shack because they would not carry his 80 Micro magazine in their stores; his vitriolic column often lambasted Radio Shack CEO John Roach. e.. Bill Schroeder, a successful businessman, bankrolled Logical Systems, Inc. and sold Tandy on LDOS as the company-sponsored TRSDOS replacement. A state-of-the-art headquarters and a pile of money followed the lucrative contract, but once he sensed the coming demise of the TRS-80, Schroeder simply shut down his company, a move he came to regret. f.. Scott Adams created popular Adventure games for the TRS-80 and other early microcomputers, became a celebrity in the magazines, but went broke when he produced too many game cartridges for a computer that died in the marketplace. g.. Along with microcomputers, robots were also hot. Meet the robots of the 1980s - and the man who said we were all going to have mechanical men in our homes by the year 2000. Unlike the PC revolution, the robot revolution fizzled. h.. A notorious scam artist preyed on the gullibility of microcomputer enthusiasts, destroying the Southern California Computer Society with a Ponzi scheme, then bilking TRS-80 owners out of thousands of dollars with magazine ads from a bogus company called World Power Systems showing phony products. Get the real story, based on interviews with microcomputer pioneers like Steve Leininger, Don French, Randy Cook, Mark Lautenschlauger, Bill Schroeder, Ed Juge and others. They tell their story for the first time, captured by the authors, who lived through it all. Visit www.microcomputerpioneers.com to read excerpts and order your copy. NOTES: You can get the book from us or from amazon.com. We thank all the people who emailed us about the book. We really appreciate your interest and your comments. Please forward this note to anyone who might be interested in Priming the PUmp.

18 years, 10 months

Semi-OT: Interesting or unusual PC Compatibles?

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

> > They're made of copper, but they're also plated with iron, and once that > > plating is gone the copper doesn't last -- it gets pitted, etc. On really > > old stuff I used to file tips, but not any more... > > Back in the old days, we used to coat the copper tips with silver > (hard) solder (56% silver) to extend the life. But you need a torch > to do that--silver solder melts at about 1100F and requires a special > flux. For what I believe was a short time back in the mid-late-70's, Weller came out with gold-flashed soldering iron tips. They seemed to last forever and kept a tin like a dream which might have been one of the reasons they discontinued them (i.e. tip sales reduced). Mine might still be usable today if they hadn't been lost in one of my trans-national moves (along with a large collection of soldering equipment and aids). ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/

18 years, 10 months

Semi-OT: Interesting or unusual PC Compatibles?

by marvin＠west.net

Chris M wrote: > > though). Soldering iron tips are made of copper, so I > don't see any reason why I couldn't chisel one down > for a specific task. Any thoughts? Am I courting > disaster? Depends on the tip. The better soldering tips are coated/plated with another metal, and filing removes that coating. It will still work, but will also require more maintenance to keep the tip working properly.

18 years, 10 months

Semi-OT: Interesting or unusual PC Compatibles?

by marvin＠west.net

> From: davis <davis at saw.net> > > > would a decent eye loupe do the trick, as far as > > determining where the problem lay? Truthfully I've had > > problem power supplies in the past, and nailed each > > solder junction (on the underside of the board) w/a > > hot iron, and it always seemed to work like a charm > > > > From what I understand about the problem, just remelting the junctions and not applying solder will do the trick. Remelting the junctions IF you apply flux to the joint will work fine (if the joint is not too badly oxidized.) Not applying flux is just playing the lottery as to the quality of the resoldered joint. A badly oxidized joint probably needs to go through the solder sucker routine before applying new solder w/flux.

18 years, 10 months

DEC PDP-11/84 H7200 repair advice

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

Well, I tried today to bring up my 11/84 - initial tests are showing me that there is something wrong with the power supply, an H7200. While the fans run, there doesn't appear to be any +5v. There is a faint ticking sound heard from the supply, and when I drop the power, there is a soft squeaking. So, before I take the this thing apart, are there any suggestions where I can look, common failures, etc? Thanks! -Ian

18 years, 10 months

newbie building a scratch-built computer

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: newbie building a scratch-built computer > From: "Holger Veit" <holger.veit at iais.fraunhofer.de> > Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 12:23:15 +0200 (CEST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > > >Tony Duell said: >> IMHO, more important than the EPROM programmer is an EPROM emulator. This >> is a box of RAM that connectes to the EPROM socket of the target system >> (the board you'be just made) and also to a host machine (PC, parallel >> port, serial port, USB?). YOu can quickly download perogams into the >> emulator, which then appears exactly as the EPROM does ot the target, and >> the latter can therefroe run said programs. >> >> The advantage over using EPROMs is that you can re-write the RAM as many >> times as you like (EPROMS have a limited number of program cycles) and >> rewrite it quickly. Unless your programming is a lot better than mine, >> you will go mad if you have to wait 20 minutes for an EPROM to be erased >> and reprogammed. each time you want to make a change! > >I haven't so far reached the maximum # of programming cycles for EPROMs in >any experiment. *) As I recommended you might use EEPROMs instead of >EPROMs mainly because of their moderate capacity (you won't need PC FLASH >ROMs with 1MB or more for an 8 bit system) and because they don't need >erasing in the UV coffin. Neither have I. I have 2716s, 2732s dating back to early 1980s that have seen many cycles in many many projects and they are still good. The thing that seems to kill Eproms is excessive erase times and reverse polarity. Allison > >*) Maybe your and my programming strategy differs; now with SW emulators >for almost any old CPU being available ona PC, I tend to test my code in >an emulator, often with single stepping first before I make a HEX file to >burn it; even with EEPROMs - the old turnaround cycle of change a byte, >program, insert and test how far it works is still too long even with RAM >boxes. Admittedly, in the old times, without PC emulation, I did a lot of >paper testing work first before burning the stuff into an EPROM; this >discipline meanwhile degraded... > >-- >Holger

18 years, 10 months

Ampro LittleBoard/286

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: I just got my hands on an Ampro LittleBoard/286. It appears to be in good condition but comes with no manuals or software of any kind. The power connector is obvious but I would like to get a manual and do some reading before getting deep into the board. Googling produces very limited info and no manuals. Does anyone have a copy of the manual they?d be willing to scan or copy for me? Of course, I?ll put an information page on my Web site once I?ve collected a bunch of info on it. Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator http://www.altair32.com http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp

18 years, 10 months

Xerox 820-II docs

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Does anyone here know of an online archive of docs for the Xerox 820-II. I have a few binders for it and I'm wondering how much of this I need to run through a scanner. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

18 years, 10 months

newbie building a scratch-built computer

by river＠zip.com.au

Hi, There's plenty of free x-assemblers you can find on the net. I run x-assemblers for 8080/85, 8086/88, 6800, 6809, Z80, 2650, SC/MP and 68000. They all run on a Windows box. I use two old PCs for my development, one is a 166Mhz Pentium running Win98 and the other is a 486SX (25Mhz) running Win3.1. Those machines can run all the x-assemblers and editors necessary for developing code for most old 8-bit processors. If I need to get serious and require some ICE then I have an Intel MDS220 and an Intel MDS IV, which can do 8080 and 8085 ICE, respectively. You can find basic processor schematics on the net and do your initial build on some breadboard. Depending on the complexity, my final build is usually wire-wrapped or soldered on veroboard. Most of the x-assemblers will create an Intel Hex object code file, and you program your home-brew system to be able to download these files and that's how you load code into your system. Of course, unless you have a front panel, you'll need to create a boot EPROM, so access to an EPROM burner is required. I use an old Microprofessor MFP-1P, which has the EPROM burning board connected and it burns 2516, 2716, 2532, 2732, 2732A and 2764 chips - which is all I use on my home-brew systems. One of the projects I am intending to do is to build a dedicated EPROM burner, using some old 8-bit processor that can program the above chips as well as the 2708. Seeyuzz River

18 years, 10 months

UK Classic Computer event (Was VCF UK)

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Andrew Burton wrote: Well, I'm south-east UK (East Anglia) a few miles from Cambridge. Regards, Andrew B ------------------------ When I'm in England (4-5 months a year) I live in Colchester. Maybe we can get together next time I'm over - mid 2008. Billy

18 years, 10 months

P112 supplies are exhausted

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

As of now, my two remaining P112 kits are spoken for (you know who you are). Plans to make more will depend on getting at least 30 units preordered. This brings me to VCF West. I've been asked to do a workshop on the P112 at VCF West . I don't really know what I'd talk about, but at the very least I guess it would be a bunch of people soldering together their P112 kits. So far, my schedule looks good for that. So, please email me at this address or my yahoo account (cupricus) and let me know what you want. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

18 years, 10 months

newbie building a scratch-built computer (River)

by river＠zip.com.au

Hi, I would have thought "scratch-built" implied designing and building your own home brewed system. Building a kit like the Micro-KIM is not a scratch build exercise. All it will do is give you more practise in soldering. If the whole purpose of this exercise is to have an old 8-bit system so you can program in hex and/or assembler, then you can download an emulator and play around with it from there. If you mainly want to run things off the various serial and parallel ports then something like the Micro-KIM would be useful. If you want to do the whole lot yourself, then the best way to get "dirty" is to design your own system, build it yourself (either via wire-wrap or soldering) and develop your own small debug/monitor program. There's plenty of information on the Internet to find some small designs that you can use, and also hints and ideas on debug/monitor code. I design and build my own systems - not for anything really purposeful, but mainly for fun. I like to see how many different processor systems I can build. I also like expanding on old systems, such as the AIM65 or wire-wrap extra memory/IO boards for Multibus-I, etc. The easiest oldish 8bit processors to use for a homebrew system would be the 6502, 6802, Z80 and 8085. When you've built one... say a 6502... then the next fun thing is to build (say) and 8085 system, with similar functionality and using the Intel family peripheral chips. Then you can get onto the less common processors like the 2650, 9980... or even the SC/MP. In any event, whatever path you take, have fun, learn and enjoy yourself. Seeyuzz River

18 years, 10 months

UK Classic Computer event (Was VCF UK)

by silvercreekvalley＠yahoo.com

I'm in Yorkshire, but would travel anywhere in the UK for a vintage show :) Outside London would be a lot cheaper I would guess, also travelling into London is not cheap these days - especially if you want to exibit and need to bring a car/van. Manchester would seem a good place - as it has some interesting exibits at the Science Museum too - including the SSEM (Manchester Baby) of course - a working recreation of the original - now that's vintage! Ian. ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/

18 years, 10 months

MMI 6701 bit slice?

by cclist＠sydex.com

There's been a lot of chatter about the AMD 2901 series bit-slice. Does anyone recall any system that employed the MMI 6701 series? Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 10 months

UK VCF?

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

Just a curious question for the folks in the UK... Has there ever been a VCF UK? Do you think there would be much interest in one? Mark.

18 years, 10 months

"Whimper" newsletter

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: Does anyone know if scans of the Tandy newsletter ?The Whimper? exists on-line? I did some Googling tonight and came up mostly with stuff on Jessica Tandy whimpering :-) I?ve been told these newsletters had some good T2k info in them but I don?t see them on-line anywhere. Specifically, I?m fishing for information on getting MFM hard drives working on Tandy 2000 machines. I have two machines with to seemingly bad Tandon TM502 drives. I saw another thread from last month that complained about the poor quality of the Tandon drives, so it?s probably bad drives. I have an ST225 drive that I want to run externally as a test but I haven?t been able to locate a manual on the T2k HD controller nor the external drive (25-1025 I think). I don?t want to connect it blindly before I?m confident the controller is setup properly. Irrational fear maybe but I want to proceed methodically. Any info appreciated. Thanks. Rich -- Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator http://www.altair32.com http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp

18 years, 10 months

Victor V286C

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hi I have the system unit for a Victor V286C PC manufactured in 1991. Its in really nice condition. Keyboard and mouse are no problem. However the display is a different matter. It has a nine pin display connector which would make it a CGA ,MGA or Hercules output. Anybody any ideas as to where I might find a matching monitor? Rod Smallwood

18 years, 10 months

Victor Sirius/9000 Monitor

by classiccmp＠memory-alpha.org.uk

Hi, >> there is static on the crt's face when you power up? >>If there's no provision for an AC plug, then you have >>your answer as to where the power comes from. Didn't > > Indeed. As an aside to this, the Sirius' monitor (like that of the later Apricots) has a thin sheet of fabric stretched across the front of it (secured by the front bezel) so there is no noticable static charge on the screen when it's powered up. Kinda puts paid to the quick and easy method of determining if it's getting power.... :-( TTFN - Pete.

18 years, 10 months

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