test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Unknows S-100 System > From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:17:43 -0400 > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > >On Sunday 23 September 2007 09:12, Allison wrote: >> >Subject: Re: Unknows S-100 System >> > From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> >> > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 23:44:57 -0400 >> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> > >> >On Saturday 22 September 2007 19:35, Barry Watzman wrote: >> >> All commercial software used 8080 instructions, >> > >> >Well, no. Two that I know of that did require a z80 were Turbo Pascal >> > and Mix C. >> > >> >-- >> >> What I wrote something similar I used the word "most" as I knew there was >> some CP/M software that required z80. However from a business user >> perspective most of the deireable and likely used software like word >> preocessors, spreadsheets and databases 8080 was just fine save for >> speed and the 8085 solved that. Also the 8085 was more of a bridge >> than the ultimate application cpu. Somebody else used all. I used most, you have the series of posters crumped.. >Yup, but the word used there was "all". :-) By someone that posted before me. You have a bunch or people and me munged together. I've been at it long enough to know and have delt with the transistion >from 8080 to z80 and on. My first system was Altair (8080) upgraded to NS* (z80) and in '79 I bought a Netronics Explorer 8085 all of which I still have and all work. The amount of software that eould ran on 8080 was sufficient to keep 8080 users going into the 16bit world. >And then there was software that was good enough to test what it had, and go >from there... Yes, some of the stuff was adaptive. There was also a version of ZCPR that was "trimmed" to run on 8080 so that at least a few improvements were available. Allison

18 years, 8 months

Old mini computer (B80)

by zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com

Rumor has it that Mr Ian Primus may have mentioned these words: >Now, what I'm wondering, is how big of a hassle is it >to bring this across the border? I've never picked up >a computer from Canada. Is customs going to raise a >stink about a 25 year old minicomputer? Whatever you do, *don't* say *collectible*!!! "Museum piece" would be another bad term to use. Customs will hear these terms and think $$$. Tell the customs agent that you have a giveaway (and seriously hint that fact being equatable to "worthless" if asked) hardware rack, obsolete wouldn't be a bad term to use... Keep responses short, sweet & to the point. Don't be a smartass[1]. Don't give 'em your life story, as they're busy folk and don't need to hear it. *Especially* don't "hum and haw" when asked a question, the Customs agent will smell fear and pull you over to inspect your cargo, asking more questions than you'd prefer. Go over your story in your head several times, and try to be prepared for any question they might ask, like "Why'd you drive to BFE to get this thing?" or "What's this thing actually worth?" A good story to use is: Part A) "I used one in high school/college but no-one uses these anymore... " and choose either Part B: Part B1) "... and this person was going to throw it away anyway, so I saved it from the dumpster." or Part B2) "... and this person said it didn't work anymore and I wanted the challenge to try to fix it." and if asked to elaborate, try: "it's a hobby just like restoring Model 'T' cars, but for geeks." Something to that effect anyway should work fairly well. Also, if the units "country of origin" was the USA, there shouldn't be any duty for it to return to the USA, no matter how much it's worth, so if there's a tag on the machine or a manual with it that states "Made in the USA" then they shouldn't give you any hassle. A good piece of advice to keep in mind WRT Customs: You are *guilty* until proven innocent. If you're thinking of making a weekend out of it, get a gas receipt, buy a candy bar, etc. once you get into Canada, because if you're looking to hit the Duty Free on the way back, if you can't *prove* you were in Canada as long as you say, you haven't. Period. I worked at a Duty Free for 3 years or so when I was a young lad, and learned quite well the powers (which are considerable) of US Customs. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] It only takes once to get the "wrong officer" (read: Didn't get any the nite before) to make your life hell crossing the border. 3 years ago going to VCF East (the one in Bahston), I crossed from Port Huron, MI to Sarnia, Ont.... made the trip quite a bit shorter for me. No worries... until on the way back. The guy asked me for my passport (which wasn't necessary at the time) and then for my birth certificate (also not necessary, not to mention mine had been destroyed and I'd hadn't gotten it replaced yet at the time) so the guy accused me of a) being a terrorist, and b) never having crossed the border before. I broke my own rules, as I a) rather forcefully reminded him that I was a veteran, b) I grew up on a border town and had prolly crossed into Canada more (by the time I was 20) than he ever had, and c) I knew the crossing rules better than he did. [2] Needless to say, my civil rights were violated that day because of my outburst... but remember, you're not technically in the US until *after* customs, so they can get away with it. Most don't abuse the power, but a few can & do... [2] I (barely) stopped short of both vulgarity and questioning his parentage... thank goodness! -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | Anarchy doesn't scale well. -- Me zmerch at 30below.com. | SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers

18 years, 8 months

[SPAM(date)] Re: Old mini computer (B80)

by stevew＠ka6s.com

Al Kosow Wrote: >I would be a good thing to save. I think RSC/RI has one as well >(W.D. would know for sure) > >Also, no software has been archived for this machine, so any >surviving copies would be a good thing. If I recall correctly - this machine will run the Burroughs CMS software. This OS worked from the B80 upto the B1800 systems. Steve Wilson

18 years, 8 months

Old mini computer

by mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA

About that B80, in case anyone is interested, I wrote to the poster saying >>> 450-454-5631 >> This number is in St-Remi, according to the NPA-NXX tables I have. >> Is that where the B80 is? and got a response saying > You have the right town. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

18 years, 8 months

pen plotters?

by renevr＠unitedtelecom.be

Hi Erik, I have the same problem. Is it possible to copy the book again?? Rene

18 years, 8 months

case cracker

by jvdg＠sparcpark.net

Tony: >> Can someone point me to somewhere where I can get a case cracker of some >> sort? I don't think I'm going to score an official Apple one, so I'll >> settle for one that looks like the one on this page: > > I've heard the term 'case cracker' or 'Mac cracker' applied to 2 > different tools : A long TX15 Torx driver to fit the screws in the > handle of classic Macs; and a thing to fit in the groove between the > front and hack parts of the case to force them apart after you've removed > the screws. > > For the formsr, the Xcellite System 99 drivers work well. You need a > handle, X5 extension and TX15 blade (the parts should all be available > separately, you don't need to buy a set). With the extension, the tool is > long enoguh to easily remove those screwsm and the blade itself is long > enough so that the joint between it and the extension bar is in the > larger part of the handle. > > For the latter, I've always found that if you remove the battery cover > (needed to get at one of the screws), you can press on the battery and > the I/O connectors to get the case free.. My preferred method is to place the Mac face-down on a towel (to avoid scratching), and then give the sides a good whack with the palms of both hands. This will split the case right open with a very satisfying "PHLOOMPH!" type of sound. ,xtG tsooJ

18 years, 8 months

CTX Panoview 630 power supply pinout?

by gilbert.vandevelde＠telenet.be

Hello Looking around for power supply pinout for my touchscreen device, I met your message. Please is it possible to send me that pinout (panoview 630). Thanks x 1000 ! Gilbert Van de Velde

18 years, 8 months

case cracker

by tsw-cc＠johana.com

While other have mentioned the "shaking over a couch" method, I used a similar method by pushing on the connectors (the DB25 used for SCSI, and the Mini DIN-8's used for the serial ports. After you loosen the Torx screws (I got a long Torx driver from Fry's for this purpose), it was an easy matter to put the CRT down on a soft surface (I think I did it on my lap as I remember) and just push on the connectors while holding the case. Plop it went. Pretty easy if you ask me. I never did buy a "case cracker". Little use given my success at pushing on connectors. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/

18 years, 8 months

Looking for a Depraz mouse.

by jos.mar＠bluewin.ch

Subject says it all, I am looking for a Depraz mouse, a.k.a. swiss mouse. It is a very early mouse, around 1982, with straigth quadrature output and three Shadow switches for mouse buttons Jos Dreesen

18 years, 8 months

DEC hardware in Houston

by shumaker＠att.net

publicsurplus.com has two DEC lineprinters listed in Houston if anyone is interested.. www.publicsurplus.com item 212610 Digital LG01 item 212614 Digital LG02 back to lurking now... ss

18 years, 8 months

Unknows S-100 System

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Unknows S-100 System > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:43:29 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 23 Sep 2007 at 9:12, Allison wrote: > >>> What I wrote something similar I used the word "most" as I knew >there was >> some CP/M software that required z80. However from a business user >> perspective most of the deireable and likely used software like word >> preocessors, spreadsheets and databases 8080 was just fine save for >> speed and the 8085 solved that. Also the 8085 was more of a bridge >> than the ultimate application cpu. > >We ran into a few vertical apps that required Z80--and I think one of >the better word processors (maybe a late Spellbinder?) required a >Z80. BASIC dialects were different enough back then (and today) that >an application written with a specific Z80 BASIC in mind would get >you into trouble with an 8085. Never said there weren't Z80 apps, there wer lots of them some very good. It was more suprizing that the core stuff stayed with the 8080 model. It was the early adoptors that had and use dmuch of the 8080 stuff and where the z80 stuff was used they were alrady looking for 16bit cpus as they'd grown out of it. So like I said the 8085 was "enough" to run CP/M allow porting stuff to 8086 and keeping 8085 or even z80 stuff running as at best an interum thing as teh goal was to get off 8bit totally. >It wasn't enough to make us consider developing a Z80 card, since we >were marketing our own OS and applications anyway. But I'm certain >that the lack of a Z80 cost a few sales. No kidding. One thing was certain while the 8085 was ok cpu the market had decided that anything less than Z80 was not going to fly on the 8bit CPU alone. Allison

18 years, 8 months

Modernish Honeywll-Bull computers available in North Carolina

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

These are totally uninteresting to me, but perhaps someone here finds them worthy of preservation? They a 1980s-1990s era 68000-based beasts as far as I'm told. Not in the best condition. Parts is probably the best description. Contact Jerry <theskyrider at gmail.com> for details. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

18 years, 8 months

FREE: Long Island, NY, full-sized Printronix dot matrix line printer

by spector＠zeitgeist.com

I am de-cluttering in advance of a move to the bay area... and need to give away some excess classic hardware. Available is a full-sized Printronix line printer. In pretty good shape; with extra ribbons. Works pretty well given it's ~25 yrs old. Please contact me via email ONLY. This printer is in the Huntington, LI area, and for pickup only. You'll need a small truck or a pickup, it will NOT fit into a station-wagon or SUV. _DHMS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David HM Spector spector (at) zeitgeist (dot) com http://www.zeitgeist.com/ ~ ~ ~ "New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?'" --H . G. Wells

18 years, 8 months

Quick & Timely Single Board Computer 2/4

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi. ?Does anyone own any of these boards and can send me a ROM dump? The documentation speaks of multiple versions supporting various FDC boards so I would like to include as many as possible with the documentation bundle. I recently bought a "Quick and Timely" (Q&T) Single Board Computer (SBC) 2/4 for the S-100 bus. ?Fortunately it came with documentation because there does not appear to be any at the usual S-100 documentation archives like bitsavers.org, Howard Harte's, or Majzel's. http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ http://www.hartetechnologies.com/manuals/QT%20Computer/ http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/quick%20timely/index.html So I have scanned the documentation which came with the card and will send it to the archives for them to include. The problem is my board did not come with a monitor ROM as mentioned in the documentation. ?This is not a huge problem as I can probably just write one or modify the Dave Dunfield RAMless monitor, burn an EPROM, and plug it in. However, if anyone has one of these boards and would be so kind as to send me a hex dump of their ROM or better yet, a commented assembler source, I will include it in the documentation I am preparing for the archives. ?I would just as soon use the one which came with the Q&T SBC rather than re-invent another one. Thanks! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 8 months

Unknows S-100 System

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Unknows S-100 System > From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> > Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:35:38 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> snippage>>>>>>>>> >> What irritated me was that Intel never documented the additional 8085 >> instructions, even though they seemed to be present on every version >> of the chip Intel (and second sources) ever produced. Because they >> weren't "officially" documented, we adopted a policy that they should >> not be used to avoid possible future "surprises". > >What are these? I remember some stuff in the magazines early on (probably >Byte, in its first year of publication or so) and have run across some stuff >on the 'net about undocumented z80 opcodes, most of which don't seem to be >terribly useful, but this is the first I've heard of undocumented 8085 >codes. >from my compendium of acient history and useful junk: Hex 8085 Meaning --------------------- 08 SUB HL-BC 10 RRHL ;Rotate HL right. 16-bit rotation, flags unchanged. 10 Shift right HL 18 RLDE Rotate DE left. Bit 15 to Carry. No other flags. 18 Rotate right DE 28bb ADI HL,bb ;Add 00bb immediate to HL, setting flags. 28 Add HL and Immidiate nnnn into DE 38bb ADI SP,bb ;As above but to Stack Pointer. 38 Add SP and Immidiate nnnn into DE CB RSTV8 ;RST 8 (to 0040) if the V flag is set. CB ReSTart on Overflow(V) to 0040h D9 SHLDE ;LD (DE),HL D9 Load [DE] from HL DDaaaa JNK aaaa ;Jump to location aaaa if K flag is reset. DD Jump on 'Not X5' ED LHLDE ;LD HL,(DE) ED Load Hl from [DE] FDaaaa JK aaaa ;Jump to location aaaa if K flag is set. FD Jump on 'X5' bit 8085 7(MSB) S sign 6 Z Zero 5 X5 4 AC aux carry 3 0 2 P parity 1 V overflow 0(LSB) C carry Intel did not further specify the undocumented 8085 instructions. This however means that other assemblers might use different mnemonics for the same function. DSUB 08 10cy HL <- HL - BC Instruction : DSUB [reg] (DSB BC) Function : HL HL - reg (double subtract) Flags : CY, S, X5, AC, Z, V, P Arguments : reg = B for BC (optional) ARHL 10 7cy HL <- HL/2, CY <- L0 Instruction : ARHL (SHRL) Function : HL,CY HL >> 1 (arithmetc right shift) Flags : CY Argument : none RDEL 18 10cy DE <- DE*2, E0 <- CY, CY <- D7 Instruction : RDEL (SLDE) Function : CY,DE DE << 1 (arithmetic right shift) Flags : CY, V Arguments : none LDHI imm 28 dd 10cy DE <- HL + imm Instruction : LDHI d8 (LRI HL,D8) Function : DE HL + d8 (HL + 8bit >DE) Flags : none Arguments : d8 = 8-bit constant LDSI imm 38 dd 10cy DE <- SP + imm Instruction : LDSI d8 (LRI SP,D8) Function : DE SP + d8 (SP+ D8 >DE Flags : none Arguments : d8 = 8-bit constant RSTV CB 6/12cy if(V) push PC, PC <- 40H Instruction : RST flag (RSTV) Function : restart to 40h if flag=1 Flags : none Arguments : flag = V SHLX D9 10cy (DE) <- HL Instruction : SHLX DE Function : DE < [HL] Flags : none Arguments : reg = DE LHLX ED 10cy HL <- (DE) Instruction : LHLX DE Function : [DE] > HL Flags : none Arguments : reg = DE JNX5 addr DD al ah 7/10cy if(!X5) PC <- addr Instruction : JNX5 addr Function : jump to addr if X5=0 Flags : none Arguments : addr = absolute 16-bit address JX5 addr FD al ah 7/10cy if(X5) PC <- addr Instruction : JX5 addr Function : jump to addr if X5=1 Flags : none Arguments : addr = absolute 16-bit address X5 is the otherwise unused bit 5 in the PSW register Allison

18 years, 8 months

Unknown S100 system

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Unknown S100 system > From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> > Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:56:42 -0400 > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > >On Saturday 22 September 2007 08:29, Allison wrote: >> >With regard to what little programming I've done, the thing I like most >> > about the z80 is relative jumps, which makes relocatable code easy to >> > do. The other big deal is the alternate register set and the index >> > registers, which I really haven't used all that much. >> >> The items that make z80 desireable for programming to me are the repeat >> instructions (LDIR) and the loop (DJNZ) > >Aside from making source a bit more compact, those seemed to, like a lot of >other stuff, require the use of particular registers, etc. that I might >have other uses for at the time. And didn't seem to offer that much of a >speed advantage. I never got into them all that much. They made the source easier to read as well. As to use of registers for block moves in 8080 your likely to use the same set and the same way so no biggie. In balance I like Z80 and it does add some nice expansions. >> plus some of the smaller instructions that make the CPU more symetrical. It >> always bugged me that 8080 can load the SP but storing it required clearing >> the HL and adding SP to HL. > >Yes! It also bugged me that you could swap HL and DE easily enough, but not >HL and BC, or DE and BC. That being a single-byte instruction that executed >fairly quickly, as I recall... Yep, 8080 was very lopsided but I'd guess leaving out some fo the instructions simplified matters back when it meant something. >> 8088/86, hardware around it was easy, hated programming it. Always felt >> it was an 8080 with a bag on the side and borrowed the worst z80 features. >> It's big cache was it's was 16bit and had the ability to address 1mb. > >That approach to things struck me as an abomination the first time I looked at >it, and I never really got all that interested in doing much of anything >with it at the assembler level -- if I need to program something that has one >of those in it I'll do it in c or whatever, so I don't have to be bothered >with all those messy details. It's unfortunate that this is the chip family >that the industry seems to have settled on, mostly. Any 808x or 80x86 I program in high enough level language as to totally obscure the crap underneath. Lowest being database stuff like SQL or maybe Pascal. PC hardware I code for only when people are paying. >I feel the same way about a lot of the intel-type (and similar) peripheral >chips -- write-only registers? WTH? I suppose that some aspect or other of >chip design pushed things in that direction, but looking at it from just the >perspective of programming the things, I don't see where I/O address space >was all that scarce a resource, really. Write only makes sense when you consider it saves addreses and logic in there and likely most will never read it. Some the write is one register and read is another but they share a common address. All in all I've seen better and worse. Allison

18 years, 8 months

ISA 16-bit extender card

by tpeters＠mixcom.com

I've come across an ISA 16-bit extender card, JDR Microdevices model EXT-80286, http://www.jdr.com/interact/item.asp?itemno=gr-ext Is this worth anything to anyone on the list? -T ----- 702. [Intelligence] The intellect is not a serious thing, and never has been. It is an instrument on which one plays, that is all. --Oscar Wilde --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB: http://www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531

18 years, 8 months

Moto MVME121 paper

by mnusa2＠hotmail.com

Hi Chuck, I have a lot of interest, do You still have it?. Please continue with email mnusa2 at hotmail.com. BR Matti >Under the heading of "where did *that* come from?", I've stumbled on >a loose leaf binder from Motorola titled "MVME121 System Hardware >Manual". There are several publications within, but the bulk of the >binder's taken up by a document called "MVME319 Intelligent Disk/Tape >Controller User's Manual", which contains all sorts of detail, >including principles of operation, command layouts and schematics. >Circa 1986.>>A customer must've sent it to me; I have no use for it. Anyone want >it for the cost of shipping?>>Cheers,>Chuck _________________________________________________________________ Lataa NYT Windows Live Messengerin uusin versio! http://get.live.com/fi-fi/messenger/overview

18 years, 8 months

case cracker

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Can someone point me to somewhere where I can get a case cracker of some sort? I don't think I'm going to score an official Apple one, so I'll settle for one that looks like the one on this page: http://www.answers.com/topic/case-cracker -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

18 years, 8 months

Unknown S100 system

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Unknown S100 system > From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> > Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:35:41 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Friday 21 September 2007 16:01, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> On 21 Sep 2007 at 14:07, Roy J. Tellason wrote: >> > I wonder why they went with that part? I seem to remember some others >> > that used it as well, though specifics are not coming to mind at the >> > moment. I have a bunch of those on hand, and think about doing >> > something with them from time to time. It's a fairly easy chip to use, >> > with an eprom and a ram chip and a single address latch, I just haven't >> > decided yet what I'm gonna do with it. >> >> Compupro 85/88 board; my own Durango F-85 and a host of others. If >> you can find some of the support chips (8155, 8755), the parts count >> can be very low, given the vintage of the 8085. > >Compupro was the one that was hanging out there at the edge of recall... There was a really nice 8085 system on a board that ran CP/M from Autocontrol the AC-85. Its featurees were a 5mhz 8085, DMA, 64k ram, FDC, 3 serial channels and a real time clock interrupt. What made it unique is the DMA was there to support the FDC for full DSDD 8" and it also unburdened the cpu for background tasks and interrupt servicing. >I may have some of those support chips, too. 8155 (and 8156, which is the >same part with a different select pin polarity if I'm remembering right) >sound real familiar. I have the 8085 Cookbook and a few others that Sams put >out, one covering this text editor and assembler (which I didn't really care >for, but...). No interest in the ROM-based 8355 and I've never seen the >EPROM-based 8755. The relative i/o and RAM address mapping of those parts >gets a little confusing, though, and the book is a bit less clear than it >could be on that aspect of it. I have tubes of the 8085 support chips (8155, 8156, 8755) they can also be used with 8048, 8051, 8088 or pairs for the 8086. The Eprom 8755 is easy to find and still available from various sources. A system using an 8085, 8155, 8755 has the following: 2k Eprom 256bytes ram 1 Timer (8155) 38 io lines (8755 and 8155) 3 maskable interrupts 1 trap (non maskable interrupt) SID and SOD lines (serial IO) It is/was popular in embedded systems and robotics. They were also available in CMOS and Rad-hard CMOS making them useful for extraterrestrial systems. >> I suspect that the reason 8088/8085 pairs were fairly common in >> comparison to Z80/8088 pairs was that timings and buses on the 8088 >> and 8085 are *very* similar and getting them to work with 8000-series >> peripherals was very easy. IIRC, one could even replace an 8085 with >> an 8088 (assuming you were restricting it to 64K addressing) with a >> minimum of "glue". Both multiplex the data lines on A0-A7 the same >> way. Exactly. Also the 8085 was available to at least 6mhz. The 64k/1m addressing differnce was taken care of with a simple address mapping scheme for the 8085. Compupro used it as most using the 8088 and later boards wer more interested in the 16bit cpu rather than any of the 8 bitters so z80/8085 was not an issue as it was a migration tool and allowed the use of older CP/M software. Most CP/M commercial software ran the 8080 programming model. >> I suspect it might be easier to substitute an NSC800 for an 8085 if >> Z80 functionality is needed than trying to shoehorn in a Z80. > >That's another part I have no familiarity with at all at this point in time, >though of course I've heard of it. Not easilly done as the NSC800 is both scarce and it's timing is different enough to complicate matters. > >With regard to what little programming I've done, the thing I like most about >the z80 is relative jumps, which makes relocatable code easy to do. The >other big deal is the alternate register set and the index registers, which >I really haven't used all that much. > The items that make z80 desireable for programming to me are the repeat instructions (LDIR) and the loop (DJNZ) plus some of the smaller instructions that make the CPU more symetrical. It always bugged me that 8080 can load the SP but storing it required clearing the HL and adding SP to HL. What makes the 8085 appealing is in small systems it has hardware advantages like internal clock oscillator, multiple maskable interrupts, two pins for single bit IO (SID/SOD), easier timing compared to z80. It doesnt hurt that it's an upward 8080. it also doesnt hurt that faster parts (6mhz) had far less difficult memory timing than 6mhz z80. It's also common as house flies still. NSC800, had a short product life, I don't think National ever got it faster than 4mhz, production volumes were small and I rarely ever see one. 8088/86, hardware around it was easy, hated programming it. Always felt it was an 8080 with a bag on the side and borrowed the worst z80 features. It's big cache was it's was 16bit and had the ability to address 1mb. Allison

18 years, 8 months

govliq pooling?

by legalize＠xmission.com

How many of you are located near government liquidation preview areas? I'm wondering if we can't pool our efforts a little in evaluating lots on govliquidation.com by helping each other preview stuff that is local to us but not to someone else. I'm local to Hill Air Force Base in Ogden, UT. Anyone else? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

18 years, 8 months

case cracker

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 9/23/07, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > At 10:46 PM -0700 9/22/07, David Griffith wrote: > >Can someone point me to somewhere where I can get a case cracker of some > >sort? I don't think I'm going to score an official Apple one, so I'll > >settle for one that looks like the one on this page: > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/case-cracker > > I've used a clamp like you would use for holding up a tarp while > welding. Yes, this is a really bad explanation. You shove the tip > in the crack, and as you squeeze the clamp open, it pries the case > apart. That is, essentially, what at least the third-party crackers were - a flat-metal A-frame spring-clamp with a tip about 3/4" wide, and thin enough that the tips on both sides would fit in the groove around the Mac case. They are commonly made of chromed sheet metal with red plastic-dip handles. Hopefully that description will help you spot one in a hardware/home improvement store. They shouldn't be expensive. -ethan

18 years, 8 months

Unknows S-100 System

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Using the 8085 instead of a Z-80 was absolutely the right decision (and if you are wondering, who made that decision ..... it was me). The objective was to do a dual processor system with an 8088 and some 8-bit CPU that would run CP/M. It would have been extremely difficult to have done that with a Z-80, it was trivial with an 8085 (using a Z-80 would probably have taken an additional almost 2 dozen ICs ... the external hardware and bus interfaces and signals were just totally different). Further, the performance of the 8085 was (ok, arguably) higher .... true, we were stuck with the 8080 instruction set, but the 8085 ran at 5MHz (later 6MHz) with FAR better timing margins than a 4MHz Z-80. There were things that, in retrospect, we might have done differently (strapping the 8088 for "min" mode instead of "max" mode, for example), but using the 8085 wasn't one of them. All commercial software used 8080 instructions, and the machine was primarily for running MS-DOS anyway. From our perspective (as the manufacturer) we never felt a downside to that decision. Barry Watzman Former computer product line director Heathkit and Zenith Data Systems On Friday 21 September 2007 13:56, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Unlike the Rainbow, the use of the 8085 was probably not such a great > idea after Heath/Zenith had been producing Z-80 systems. I wonder why they went with that part? I seem to remember some others that used it as well, though specifics are not coming to mind at the moment. I have a bunch of those on hand, and think about doing something with them >from time to time. It's a fairly easy chip to use, with an eprom and a ram chip and a single address latch, I just haven't decided yet what I'm gonna do with it.

18 years, 8 months

Help identifying a PDP-11

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> Can anyone help me identify my latest PDP-11 rescue. Not been able to > get a good look at it yet as it is in a room packed (and I mean packed) > with junk. Machine consists of a DEC Datasystems cab (about 35-40U with > a blue bottom panel, pretty similar to light blue cabs here: > http://www.computermuseum.li/Liste/Digital/PDP11.70.4.html) > I'm not familiar with the DEC Datasystems versions of PDP-11s. Does > anyone have any background information on them? > Also, I'm pretty sure I've not lucked out and found an 11/70 as no > toggle switch console, any ideas on what other models were fitted to > these cabs. I'm guessing 11/34. That is an 11/70, but with the "remote diagnostics console". You will find a M8255 KY11-RE in there to connect up a modem to give remote console access. Probably hooked up to a modem that was owned by DEC maintenance org and leased as part of the maintenance agreement. I'm sure that sometimes they asked for the modem and console back if the maintenance contract was terminated but as a practical matter I find that they hardly ever reclaimed the equipment. Tim.

18 years, 8 months

Unknown S100 system

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Your description fits PERFECTLY a Heathkit / Zenith Data Systems Z-100 series computer (actually, Z-110 or Z-120 series). I am sure, from you description, that this is what it was. It's actually a very common system as S-100 systems go .... about 100,000 were built, five to ten times more than Imsai or SOL-20 systems. > >All of the S100 systems I've seen to date have comprised a backplane >and then cards for various system components - including CPU and >memory. However, I unearthed one today which held much of the system >logic on the backplane itself (i.e. more like a modern-day PC >motherboard - I'd heard such things existed, but this is the first one I've actually seen). >Unfortunately I forgot to bring the thing home with me, so I'm a bit >light on remembered details (but can get more tomorrow if needs be). >However, it appeared to have both an 8088 and 8085 CPU on board, >memory, what is probably ROM, a handful of S100-bus [1] connectors, >parallel port, a light-pen port (unusual!), plus a few other ports (at >least one was serial I expect). There were a few other IDC-style pin >headers too - perhaps for some sort of storage, but none of them were obviously labeled as to function. > >Sound familiar to anyone?

18 years, 8 months

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