test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Does MUSIC 4B still exist? Barry Vercoe at the Media Lab might know. I don't think CHM has a copy. From memory, MIT's MUSIC 11 has roots in the Bell program.

18 years, 5 months

Cameron- you're server's still down

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Been trying to re-send, but it looks like your server still isn't quite right.

18 years, 5 months

HP2116 inventory

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> if someone has service > manuals for the C it would be nice if scans could eventually find their way to bitsavers. I have a lot of material for the C as well as B from a large collection I obtained a few years ago. The only thing I don't appear to have are the schematics for the 2116A. All this needs to get sorted out to be included with material available through the HP/CHM agreement.

18 years, 5 months

MUSIC 4B

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

One of my fun finds at the Record Fair while you folks were all out at VCF X is Paul Zukofsky's Lyric Variations for Violin and Computer, >from 1967. Several of the pieces were made by an IBM 7094 running the MUSIC 4B program - non-real-time digital synthesis software. The pieces are interesting, and really sound like anything a good sized Moog modular could have made, but these pieces were done completely by the 7094 to seven track tape in batch mode, where they were later fed into a D/A converter in the studio. Listening to these, and knowing what went into making them, make them a bit more special than just music. Does MUSIC 4B still exist? Maybe this is an Al question. It certainly would be neat to play around with on a 7094 simulator. -- Will

18 years, 5 months

Older Apple Macintosh books, manuals, Apple 2e card.

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

On Nov 11, 2007, at 2:08 PM, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Those Apple // cards, are they the actual 100% emulation of the //e or > //c under old PDS Macs? Was there a SCSI 5.25" drive for Macs that > would read the Apple // disks? > The Apple // cards (I think it was a //e) fit in the LC PDS (LC, LCII, LCIII, not sure about the '040 LCs) and are a genuine Apple product that was pretty much 100%. While most of the (usually schools) using them would move their Apple // software to either 3.5" or hard disk, I think that Apple made a Macintosh-compatible 5.25" floppy that would read Apple // disks (I know they made an IBM 5.25"-compatible floppy drive for Macintosh back in the late 1980s), but not many were sold. Pretty well engineered device if you have a LC-series Mac.

18 years, 5 months

LIST ADMIN Re: Laserdiscs

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

> From: trixter at oldskool.org> > Jay West wrote:> > Jim wrote...> >> Public Service Announcement: The entire world of classic computer > >> collectors/restorers/enthusiasts is *not* made up of DEC-heads. Other > >> companies existed; other niches exist. It's a big hobby out there.> > > > Someone take a picture. Jim and I are in complete agreement on something ;)> > Holy mackerel :-) Hi I wish there was more talk about the Canon Cat but I also realize that it is quite rare( although, Jack Rubin just found one ). R. Cini's thread is of interest to me because I've built up a CP/M BIOS from scratch. Still, it is Jay's job to keep this list from just diverging into what ever. I've seen one of the news groups that's original charter was great that fell to a wasteland without the vigilance of a moderator. I'd not like to see that happen to this list. I think most ( including me ) have the occasional OT post but some seem to think that that is what the list is for. I try to police myself because I know how annoying it is to post that I could care less about. It is still a great list. Many on the list are great contributors. It is not a place to stand on a soap box and tell the world about everything that they can think of. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL1006269…

18 years, 5 months

Systems Industries Model 9400 Disc Controller

by technobug＠comcast.net

A friend's 11/70 has gone through the last of his SI 9400 disk controller spares and he has tasked me with the repair task. Does anyone have documentation for this beast? CRC

18 years, 5 months

Who keeps buying DECTalks?

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

> I suspect they're being purchased by dealers. I'd like one, but > haven't been willing to shell out the $$$'s. Dealers do not buy many things on Ebay - a general rule of thumb. It does not make much sense for dealer to pay top dollar for stuff. Lets see - 1) its DEC 1) its old 1) its cool. Collector demand? Nahhhh.... -- Will

18 years, 5 months

S100 Floppy Controller Question

by dm561＠torfree.net

-------------Original Messages: Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:23:30 -0500 From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> Subject: Re: S100 Floppy Controller Question Good. The Morrow controller then falls into the same category in my mind as the ComprPro Disk 1 with the added bonus of not requiring mods to my IMSAI. Now the thousand-dollar question -- does anyone have a suitable disk image I could use? On 11/11/07 10:55 AM, "Tim Shoppa" <shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com> wrote: > "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> wrote: >> Oh, I also just found a Morrow DiskJockey 2D/B in one of my boxes. This >> model has only a 50-pin connector and the manual talks about the SA800, so >> I'm assuming it's an 8"-only controller. > > Well, originally intended for 8" drives, but with a suitable adapter > cable glue and a slightly modified BIOS it'll do 5.25" and 3.5" drives. > > Tim. Rich ----------Reply: I think Tim's point was that if your controller's smart enough to deal with a relatively modern 8" drive like a TM848 it could probably deal equally well with a 5.25" HD drive and you could transparently restore an 8" image (if you have one) to the 5.25" disk. The controller (and CP/M) would not even know that it's a 5.25 instead of an 8"; my Cromemcos certainly don't, although a different FDC might well require some mods to the BIOS. Worth a try in any case. m

18 years, 5 months

Furguson Big Board II (was CRC question)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> My Bigboard II has a bit of interesting code in the EPROM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigboard The EPROM source was available with the board, there should be no need to disassemble it.

18 years, 5 months

S100 Floppy Controller Question

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: S100 Floppy Controller Question > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 17:33:20 -0500 > To: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >-------------Original Messages: >Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:23:30 -0500 >From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> >Subject: Re: S100 Floppy Controller Question > >Good. The Morrow controller then falls into the same category in my mind as >the ComprPro Disk 1 with the added bonus of not requiring mods to my IMSAI. The Compupro only uses pines 20 and 70 for ground, you can cut if needed. HOWEVER and VERY BIG DEAL the CPRO 1 can boot... 8" or 5.25". The Cpro 1A is more adept at that and more flexible. Both have the problem of if you boot any of the sandard CPRO images the assumed serial port is one of the standards used by CPRO. The manual will help with this. >Now the thousand-dollar question -- does anyone have a suitable disk image I >could use? > CPRO images are out there. If you go with 5.25" a PC can write a DD boot disk (uses same 765!). Also if you can boot a 5.25" image you can boot a 3.5" image of the track/sector layout is same and same density. > >On 11/11/07 10:55 AM, "Tim Shoppa" <shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com> >wrote: > >> "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> wrote: >>> Oh, I also just found a Morrow DiskJockey 2D/B in one of my boxes. This >>> model has only a 50-pin connector and the manual talks about the SA800, so >>> I'm assuming it's an 8"-only controller. >> >> Well, originally intended for 8" drives, but with a suitable adapter >> cable glue and a slightly modified BIOS it'll do 5.25" and 3.5" drives. >> >> Tim. > >Rich > >----------Reply: > >I think Tim's point was that if your controller's smart enough to deal with a >relatively modern 8" drive like a TM848 it could probably deal equally >well with a 5.25" HD drive and you could transparently restore an 8" image >(if you have one) to the 5.25" disk. The controller (and CP/M) would not >even know that it's a 5.25 instead of an 8"; my Cromemcos certainly don't, >although a different FDC might well require some mods to the BIOS. Different FDC WILL require a different bios. Same for SERIAL IO. Allison >Worth a try in any case. > >m

18 years, 5 months

Who keeps buying DECTalks?

by silent700＠gmail.com

On 11/11/07, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > I suspect they're being purchased by dealers. I'd like one, but > haven't been willing to shell out the $$$'s. Grrr, dealers. Yep there are quite a few in the for-sale section of ebay for $500 and up. Uh, no thanks.

18 years, 5 months

modern serial terminal

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: modern serial terminal > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 16:48:04 -0800 (PST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, ajones wrote: >> There was never a version of Linux, or UNIX in general, less bloated >> than Windows 95. > >Xenix ran on an 8088 XT with 640K. The IBM XT hard disk controller could >be jumpered (undocumented) to handle other sizes of drives other than the >412 (10MB). One of those sizes was 26MB, which was just right for a 10MB >DOS partition and a 16MB Xenix partition (that was how I found out about >the XT hard disk controller's undocumented jumper solder pads) > > >> [1] Yes, Windows 95 had memory protection and preemptive multitasking. > >Are there multiple definitions of "preemptive"? >Or, is "preemptive" a quantitative, rather than qualitative attribute? >I would not consider Win95, nor early Mac, to be "preemptive". Even NT4, >which is purportedly preemptive has a few two many situations where/when >it can not be preempted. For example, when opening a telnet session, it >often can NOT be preempted until it gets to the point of success or failure. Time for a topic change. Is that an OS failure or an application failure? As I see it and run it NT is preemtive but applications can block or alter lower priority tasks making it possile to do nasty thing like block keyboard task. I suspect it's legacy plus the tendancy to make forground tasks the higher priortity may have something to do with it. Linux and VMS seem to be clearly preemptive as are a number of other OSs. Allison

18 years, 5 months

Tarbell is making me insane

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Tarbell is making me insane > From: Grant Stockly <grant at stockly.com> > Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 11:02:00 -0900 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >At 10:11 AM 11/8/2007, you wrote: >>On Wednesday 07 November 2007 10:53, Allison wrote: >> > Also sounds like oneshot problems. Check cpu timing. Even small timing >> > errors tend to magnify bus noise issues and incompability problems. >>(Snip) >> > Also HEAT. That thing despite a very heafty noisy fan and cover mods >> > didn't like heat. FYI: the timing of the oneshots drifts with heating! >> >>This probably explains a lot why I encounter 9602 (and the LS variant) fairly >>often in stuff that's otherwise full of the standard 74xx (or LS) parts. >> >>I remember back in 1978 trying (unsuccessfully) to make an interface >>board for >>a dual cassette deck that we had on trial to work with the H11 system I'd >>built for this company. The fella on the phone warned me to stay away from >>the '123 parts for just this sort of reason... > >Its not the one shots... I installed a Cromenco ZPU card and it also crashes. Some Z80 cards complicate the issue. They have diffent timing and at 4mhz some ram MAY NOT be fast enough. Either slow the z80 to 2mhz or more wait states from ram. FYI: the Seals 8k [most 2102 basd cards] cards are marginal for Z80 above about 2.5mhz. >I really wanted to get this setup working. In my experience, the >Altair disk subsystem with a half dozen one shots is more reliable >and predictable to the Tarbell (hehehe). And taht experience was >with a CPU card that had one shots so out of spec according to the >intel data sheets the 8080 should not run. > >Now I have a CPU card that has been tweaked to have perfect CPU clock >timing. Nothing. : ( Also make sure the crystal osc is really running at 2mhz. Mine would sometimes take off at 4 or 6mhz until I dumped it for 8224. Shows how rough the bus timing and noise can be. Is that a one piece backplane of the two sided variety or the one of the earlier Altair 4 slot chains or single sided backplane? The reason is the earlier two styles were noisy at best and terminators didn't work well on them. Replaced the backplne with WAMCO unit and the problem improved and terminations worked. The front pannel still induced a lot of ringing on the bus. >My next guess is going to be switching the disk drive to run off of >power from the Altair. The disk drive is getting about 5.25v from >the AT computer power supply and the S-100 boards are regulating >their 5v to 4.95v. I really don't think that could be a problem, but Thats not it. Do make sure the drive and it's DC have a good common ground. >I'm willing to investigate anything right now. I am going to give >the manual a close look and make sure there aren't Altair specific >wiring instructions that were missed. I just can't figure out why it >is going crazy! I might have to get out the oscilloscope. You might. One thing to check. Is the raw BUS voltages at least 8V and 16V?? I when through two sets of PS mods to get enough power for a 48K of 8K 2102 rams, a VDM1, Altair PIO, Altair SIO plus eventually a NS* MDS. >I installed all of the boards in a "vintage" Altair with less luck. Thats why mine is retired. I'd feel different if it were an 8800B. >Grrr... This is the 3rd Tarbell card I've used trying to get >something good. The cards are modified by someone, work PERFECT in >his IMSAI with one of my reproduction 8080 CPU cards, and mailed to >me. He found that he needed a terminator to make it work, so I >installed a terminator that he sent me. The terminator only made >things worse. It could be the front pannel doing something to you. Now your getting a feel for what life was like for an Altair owning early adoptor. I still really feel that the hardware issues I fought with delayed my developing software efforts. It was when I went to the NS* and Netronics Explorer 8085 that I stopped chasing hardware and started working with higher level languages and system performance. Allison >Grant

18 years, 5 months

LIST ADMIN Re: Laserdiscs (was: Video Clips)

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 09:32:20 -0800 From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> Subject: Re: LIST ADMIN Re: Laserdiscs (was: Video Clips) To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <47373CA4.2070905 at bitsavers.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > For me "classic" computers > > are the ones created between 1977 & 1990ish & yes, this includes the early > > IBM PC's.Until the PET thread started I was getting seriously bored with the > > list, now it's interesting again. >Try http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/search.php?do=getdaily >which may be more appropriate to your interests. >You won't have to worry about people talking about anything other than consumer >computers there. ---------------- A different population from this list to be sure, broadly speaking, but nevertheless CP/M, DEC, Cromemco, IMSAI etc. are discussed there as well as WIN3.1, and since it's a forum format you can pick & choose your interest. And I agree with the OP that, certainly from a broad historical perspective of computers, old IBM PCs, PETs etc. are just as important and 'classic' in their respective segments as Altairs, IMSAIs and even DECs, regardless of one's personal bias. m

18 years, 5 months

CD Question

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Anyone on the list have IBM 1401, A User's Manual music CD? I ordered it last week but it has not come yet. If you have it what do think about it? John

18 years, 5 months

CRC question

by rtellason＠verizon.net

That recent discussion on the CRC chip got me to thinking about something that I hadn't thought of for some years now... My Bigboard II has a bit of interesting code in the EPROM, that does a sort of sanity check on itself. Some sort of a CRC algorithm (I'd have to dig out the code for exact details, and have NO idea of where I'd find it at this point). This thing had six sockets altogether, only 24-pin, so I couldn't put any bigger than a 2732 in them, and one of the nifty features in the code in that one that came with it was that it'd check the _second_ socket the same way. That way, if you had an appropriately-coded chip in there it'd just hand off to it. Seems handy to me as a way to just get the darn thing to boot a disk without you having to tell it to do so. Unfortunately, I have *no* idea how one would make an eprom have the appropriate CRC results. I suspect that one of the important details would be the exact polynomial used to generate the CRC in the first place, and I don't have that handy at the moment, have to figure out just where the heck that is... But any suggestions as to where I might research this further would be appreciated. For some reason, in spite of me having seen lots and lots of full-page ads in Micro-Cornucopia and elsewhere during that time, I can find almost nothing on the machine on the 'net these days. Which is a shame, as it's a nice board, in a lot of ways... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

18 years, 5 months

S100 Floppy Controller Question

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: Now that the weather in the Northeast is cold again, I?m picking up on some old projects, among which is the floppy system for my IMSAI. Here?s what I want ? a 5.25? dual-disk system running CP/M 2.2 (my IMSAI has a Z80 board in it). Here?s what I have ? plenty of 5.25? TM100 and equivalent drives, a CompuPro Disk 1 and an SD Sales Versafloppy (not II). The Versafloppy specifies SA400/450, but I think other 5.25? drives will work. Here?s what I don?t have ? a working disk image for either of the above. Dave Dunfield has a disk image for a Disk 1A but it?s from an 8? original. Also, the ComprPro controller seems to require modifying the IMSAI front panel to disable it (by removing the ground on pin 20 IIRC). I really don?t want to modify the front panel. I browsed the Versafloppy manual quickly and it doesn?t seem to require modifications to the host machine. Given this, does anyone have a Versafloppy image I can use? Alternatively, I?d gladly trade what I have for a board/disk that would work. I would even consider trading other stuff for it, including the 8? drive system I have that is the bane of my existence. Thanks again for any help. Rich -- Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator http://www.altair32.com http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp

18 years, 5 months

HP2116 inventory

by jam＠magic.com

Jules, > We recently managed to (finally!) get our HP 2116 machines out of 'deep store' > and into the light of day, and some initial cleaning work was done on the > panels earlier. It appears that many of the boards, especially in the 2116C, have just been placed into arbitrary slots. You will also need to double-check some of the part numbers on the boards to be sure that the 2116B and 2116C boards have not been put into the wrong chassis. For example, it may be that some of the boards in the 2116B are 2116C boards and vice versa. I can send you a more complete list of which boards belong in which slots, but that will be just part of the story, in order to get these machines running. Overall, it looks like you have close to a complete 2116C and 2116B, though you are missing the I/O boards that would have been used in a dual processor system. James Markevitch

18 years, 5 months

Old Sun diags questions (4/300 and 3/200)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>> Another question- so far I have had two Sun-3 era machines (a >> Carrera CPU in a CADDstation and a Sun 3/200 CPU) develop "all >> lights on" catatonia. Is this a common problem with Sun-3s? I'm >> wondering if I should take the time to trace out the 3/200 board >> (preferably with hints on where to look), give it away, or junk it >> (I have a working 3/110 system, so I won't be destitute of Sun-3s). >> > Not common at all...I have run literally hundreds of Sun-3 systems > and have *never* seen that failure mode. Check the EPROMS. Clearing the LEDs happens early in the boot process so either the processor is totally hosed or the boot EPROMS have bit rot.

18 years, 5 months

LIST ADMIN Re: Laserdiscs (was: Video Clips)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> For me "classic" computers > are the ones created between 1977 & 1990ish & yes, this includes the early > IBM PC's.Until the PET thread started I was getting seriously bored with the > list, now it's interesting again. Try http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/search.php?do=getdaily which may be more appropriate to your interests. You won't have to worry about people talking about anything other than consumer computers there.

18 years, 5 months

Old Sun diags questions (4/300 and 3/200)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Couple of questions on old Sun machines (well, parts). On a Sun 4300 CPU board, I'm getting the "EEPROM Write-Write-Read-Read test error PA=0xF2000000 VA=0X00FF8000 Exp=0x0000005a Obs=0x00000000 (looping)" error. Looking on the Web and Usenet seems to show that this has happened a couple of times, with some reference to possibly being the NVRAM (although the most comprehensive posing set was in German :(). This seems a bit odd, though - on my other Suns it calls the NVRAM the NVRAM, so I'm wondering if this is something else. J1900 1-2 is connected (4MB SIMM option), so it shouldn't be that (or is there something else needed to be done- not sure if this is a 4/330, or if there is any board-level reason that it couldn't use 4MB SIMMS). Another question- so far I have had two Sun-3 era machines (a Carrera CPU in a CADDstation and a Sun 3/200 CPU) develop "all lights on" catatonia. Is this a common problem with Sun-3s? I'm wondering if I should take the time to trace out the 3/200 board (preferably with hints on where to look), give it away, or junk it (I have a working 3/110 system, so I won't be destitute of Sun-3s).

18 years, 5 months

old Laserdisk players

by marvin＠west.net

I still have 30 or 40 LD-V1000s (basically NOS) so I didn't feel too bad about tearing one of them (that didn't work the first time) apart. What I found interesting is that they use a Z80 as the processor. Also, most of the ones I have gave significant picture jitter when I first checked them out. Turned out that there is a pot inside that has a connection to where the laser is on the disk. That pot somehow got "noisy" over the past 15 - 20 years they have been sitting and a combination of contact cleaners made the machine operate as new again. And the service manual is available on-line at the Dragon's-Lair-Project website. As an aside, that website also has the diagrams to make up a centronics plug to be able to start the laserdisk playing. *REALLY* nice for checking out a unit! A friend of mine also has all of the alignment jigs in case I wanted to go that far into repairing these things. > From: Jeff Jonas <jeffj at panix.com> > > I pulled apart an old InfoTrac library system that used a > Pioneer LD-V1000 since CD-ROM drives were not yet available. > Top loader, CAV disks only. Real He-Ne laser on the sled. > The Centronix connector was a proprietory parallel port > controlling video playback, getting frame # > and it allowed reading digital data if it was recorded in that format > (video playback was still NTSC, no digital at all, not even a frame buffer).

18 years, 5 months

Oddball hard drive failure...

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

I've got a Magnetic Peripherals 94211-91 SCSI drive here where the magnets for the head stack seem to have been coated - at least around the edges - with some form of paint. The paint's now begun to flake off, jamming up the head assembly and preventing the drive from seeking properly (sometimes it wouldn't spin up at all, other times it'd spin up, flop the heads around as much as it could, and then power down again) Anyone seen this particular mode of failure before? It's a new one on me... With nothing to lose (after ruling out other possibilities, and I'd already popped the lid on the drive expecting to see the aftermath of a head crash) I removed the top magnet from the head assembly (without disturbing the heads themselves or their pivot point) and cleaned everything out as best I could. I was doing it more for giggles than anything - but I was amazed when, after replacing the magnet, the drive actually powered up, stayed powered up, and was detected by the OS. It's not in particularly good health - I'm about 14MB into the archive process and I've got about 500KB of dead blocks so far. Doubtful I'll be able to get any meaningful data out of whatever filesystems were on it with that level of corruption, but I suppose it'd be silly not to at least try! cheers Jules

18 years, 5 months

VXT2000+

by henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com

Hi all, I am about to throw out a complete VXT2000+ Shipping overseas is probably not worth it (I am in The Neterlands), but if somebody needs a specific part, I am willing to disassemble the VXT before it becomes landfill. The VXT is in good shape AFAIK, but can not test it ... Henk, PA8PDP

18 years, 5 months

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