"Rawn's Buy & Sell Network" in Burnaby BC (Canada),
says he has a warehouse fill of old computers to
hopefully sell as a lot.
Consists of mostly 80s and 90s systems, like Apple,
Macs, IBMs, Next, Commodore, Atari, Tandy, Hyperion,
etc. as well as tons of software.
Here are some pics he sent me:
http://members.cox.net/oldcomputerads/oldpics/old.html
Do not contact me, please contact:
rawnsbuysell at lightspeed.ca
Enjoy!
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
I'm looking at what it would take to make a barebones "museum piece"
bit-serial computer along the lines of an LGP-30 or maybe a Bendix G-15.
I don't want to do the whole vacuum-tube-computing trip, so I'm
limiting my madness to discrete bipolar transistors, specifically the
2n2222. To keep it interesting, I want to use only components
available to mortals in 1963. And the keep the project within budget
(i.e. none to speak of), I'm further limiting the number of
transistors semi-arbitrarily to 256. Of course there will be a pile
of si diodes, resistors and capacitors involved, but the idea is to
keep the number of active components down -- if only so this beast
will fit in the boot of my car!
I've scavenged the web for information on bit-serial magnetic drum
machines of the Elder Years, and I think I have a pretty good notion
of how they worked (mostly very slowly). What I haven't been able to
get a handle on is how to make a serviceable magnetic drum. I reckon
I can do some simple prototyping with some CMOS 64-bit shift
registers so I don't have to debug both the logic and the magnetic
read/write electronics, but beyond that I have only a hazy idea how
to proceed.
Certainly I could trash a few old cassette decks, or even get some
floppy R/W heads to experiment with audio recording tape super-glued
to a soda can, but I really want to get at least the performance the
old machines could produce, so that means a reasonably fast drum RPM,
somewhere around 6000 RPM, say.
Any ideas?
We have one that does not work as well as the original manuals. We cannot get ours to work as we do not have the breakout cards for troublreshooting thi unit.Contact us if we can possible help you.
> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:31:49 +1030
> From: Robert Nansel <bnansel at bigpond.net.au>
> I think I might have a whack at making R/W heads using small ferrite
> cores/beads, the kind used in radio work.
...lots of detail...
> So, aside from the mumbles, does this sound like a workable plan?
I'd think that you'd want the head characteristics to be a very close
match if you intend to employ more than one head per track--and I
can't see how you'd get the head gaps remotely close in
characteristics with one another.
On the local Freecycle, I see VHS recorders hitting the landfill with
incredible regularity. Why not simply scavenge the heads from a few
of these? Certainly, the frequency response should be good enough.
As far as the disk goes, that should work. It seems to me that some
of the Shugard SA-4000 models even had a track or two of fixed heads
as an option.
Cheers,
Chuck
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:03:34 +0000
From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov>
Subject: Re: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV
sets)
On Mon, Dec 17, 2007 at 06:52:59PM -0500, Allison wrote:
>> MOS shift registers of lengths greater than a few bits are very late
>> 60s (after 67 or so). By early 70s parts 1024 long ere not uncommon.
>I think I have a couple of old SAD1024 MOS shift registers from when I
>was collecting deeply discounted items from the local Radio Shack
>"Manager's Table" as a kid.
>I had thought one day to make the audio echo/delay circuit I think I
>saw in an old Forrest Mims circuit book, but a solid-state acoustic
>delay line emulator sounds like a much cooler place to put them.
>-ethan
___________
Sounds like our shopping habits were the same in those golden days
at the 'shack ;-); I've still got a couple waiting for me to get a round tuit
(the data sheet also has the bucket brigade audio delay schematic).
As a digital delay line I guess you could even use it word-wise since it's
analog; you'd need some pretty fast DAC/ADCs though.
mike
Wasn't someone on the list looking for wide format green-bar paper a
while back?
PublicSurplus.com has several boxes listed.
Items 228477, 228478, 228480
s shumaker
> Sounds like an ordinary (for SGI types of ordinary) Onyx2. That has the
> framebuffer hardware in the upper module, and CPUs in the lower; one
> framebuffer module per machine, but up to 7 (IIRC) CPU modules in
> multi-rack configurations.
Seven CPU modules is unpossible. The (hyper)cube topology nust be maintained, so you can only expand a machine by doubling the number of modules connected together. Powers of two.
,xtG
tsooJ
I have three old 8-inch diskettes with graphic files on them from an
old MRI machine, probably a Siemens Magnetom 1 using a VAX computer.
I would like to compare the old pictures with modern MRI or CT scans
or X-rays taken of the same person.
Would someone in the UK be able to read them and store the files on
a modern diskette or CD?
I can read 5 1/4, 3 1/2 or CD.
Kind regards
Carl Heidelmeyer
Consultant Anaesthetist
Portishead UK
On Dec 17, 2007, at 10:42 PM, Dave wrote:
>
> Hmm, the only difference I was aware of was the I/O
> module...keyboard/mouse interface or not.
>
> -Dave
For Onyx2 Deskside, the midplane is indeed different (has an XIO
connection to the graphics side, and a graphics side). Onyx2 rack uses
standard Origin2000 compute modules with the Xtown external XIO
interface linking the compute modules to the graphics module(s), which
in the case of a rack support 2 pipelines.
Deskside Onyx2 also comes with only null routers, so 4 procs is the
max. Some people have tried putting in full routers, but I don't recall
having heard any success. I don't think O2000 has this issue (except
for one model of IP31 (one of the 250MHz boards, I think) that has a
hard limit in the PROM about how many other nodes it will work with
before becoming sulky. Marketing department at work.
>
>Subject: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV sets)
> From: "Rick Bensene" <rickb at bensene.com>
> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:06:38 -0800
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>Tom Watson wrote:
>> If you decide to make up a delay line to hold CPU data, try a
>> prototype using shift registers. They are a bit easier to
>> make up, and often the chips are available. The problem is
>> that they come in weird (at times) sizes (132, 80, and the
>> like). I'll leave it to the reader to determine the
>> usability of odd sizes and their original use.
>>
Msot of those are later designs and tended to be for line printer,
CRT and other displey and printing systems. Common sizes for that
were line printer 132, CRT 80 and 72 (tty was 72!) and the true
oddball lengths were the 1024, 224, 192 and 56.
MOS shift registers of lengths greater than a few bits are very late
60s (after 67 or so). By early 70s parts 1024 long ere not uncommon.
What makes them interesting is you can use them word or digit parallel
and very deep by cascading them serially. For lesser registers older
4 and 8bit TTL devices in parallel can be very effecive in providing
a digit wide by 8 digits deep register in a small space. This is
truely getting into late 60s early 70s serial compurer design right
on the cusp of the days of the last serial drums or disks for local
store and the drums would then be for the larger program store.
Allison
>A lot of early MOS shift registers were developed specifically for use
>in electronic calculators, as solid-state replacements for magnetic core
>memory or magnetostrictive delay lines. Since most all electronic
>calculators in the mid-'60's through the late 70's operated in BCD or
>some alternate four (or sometimes five)-bit representation of decimal
>digits, the shift registers were usually made with a number of stages
>that was a multiple of four or five, with a few extra bits here and
>there for timing and synchronization. That's why many of these devices
>as an unusual number of stages. In some calculators from the late
>'60's, as IC logic had pretty much replaced discrete transistor designs,
>there were different versions of the same machine, earlier machines
>which used a magnetostrictive delay line, and "updated" versions which
>dispensed with the delay line, and replaced it with a number of MOS IC
>shift register devices. Functionally, the machines were identical. As
>far as the digital logic section of the machine went, also identical.
>The only real changes were the removal of the read amplifier and write
>driver for the delay line, and replacement with some simple
>level-shifting and power supply circuitry to properly drive the shift
>register chain.
>
>Rick Bensene
>The Old Calculator Museum
>http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
On Dec 16, 2007, at 11:19 PM, Richard wrote:
> OK, we talked earlier about how high this architecture could go and
> there was some mention of 256 and 512 processor systems. However, I
> just stumbled across a press release at LANL describing their
> installation of a massive 6144 processor system consisting of 48 sets
> of 128 nodes all arranged as a giant supercomputer:
>
Above 128 processors you need a special "Cray" router. Above either 512
or 1024 you'll probably need custom SGI setup, possibly a custom IRIX.
At any rate, 32 or 64 processors are pretty fast (remember as you scale
it's harder and harder to get parallel code to run across all
processors), and don't forget to factor in electricity and cooling.
Most hobbyists only run one or two racks.
The first LSI tester I ever worked on (manufactured by, I think, LSI
Testing Inc of Utah) used triple-66 bit MOS shift registers to store the
digital stimuli and compare patterns (3x64-bit registers plus 2 bits
used as control). Around 1970 or so at Hughes Microelectronics. Since we
manufactured MOS ICs (PMOS at the time) and the shift registers became
obsolete after a few years we designed our own as spares. The tester
itself used a PDP-8/L as the controller and was soon after replaced by a
bigger one which used a PDP8/I - my first contact with SEC PDP8
computers.
regards
Bob Adamson
> From: "Rick Bensene" <rickb at bensene.com>
>
> A lot of early MOS shift registers were developed specifically for use
> in electronic calculators, as solid-state replacements for magnetic
core
> memory or magnetostrictive delay lines. Since most all electronic
> calculators in the mid-'60's through the late 70's operated in BCD or
> some alternate four (or sometimes five)-bit representation of decimal
> digits, the shift registers were usually made with a number of stages
> that was a multiple of four or five, with a few extra bits here and
> there for timing and synchronization. That's why many of these
devices
> as an unusual number of stages. In some calculators from the late
> '60's, as IC logic had pretty much replaced discrete transistor
designs,
> there were different versions of the same machine, earlier machines
> which used a magnetostrictive delay line, and "updated" versions which
> dispensed with the delay line, and replaced it with a number of MOS IC
> shift register devices. Functionally, the machines were identical. As
> far as the digital logic section of the machine went, also identical.
> The only real changes were the removal of the read amplifier and write
> driver for the delay line, and replacement with some simple
> level-shifting and power supply circuitry to properly drive the shift
> register chain.
>
> Rick Bensene
> The Old Calculator Museum
> http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
>
Hello !
Save some old computer books, before they go for paper recycling.
I still have most of the collection available.
The books vary from the years 1970-1990
The collection contains books about:
LISP, Data management, Artificial Intelligence, Automatic data
processing, Computer programming etc.
>From publishers like:
McGraw Hill, M&T Books, Wiley Press, Microsoft
They are all in English language and in good condition.
You can get them for FREE, only pay for post delivery. The books are shipped
>from Slovenia, Europe.
The link to the list is available at:
http://yang.mtveurope.org/books.html
If you are interested, contact me to my private email address.
Kind regards,
Jan Prunk
--
Jan Prunk <janprunk at gmail.com> http://www.prunk.si
GnuPG: 1024D/00E80E86 77C5 156E 29A4 EB6C 1C4A 5EBA 414A 29F5 00E8 0E86
Second call....
Anyone interested in an HP "LaserJet+" for the cost of merely coming and
picking it up from Birmingham?
Also available, one IBM "ProPrinter XL24". Same deal.
The HP works but the IBM is in unknown condition.
These both need to be picked up by the end of January or they *WILL* get
dumped....same goes for the rest of my computer collection (more "free for
collection" postings to follow soon).
Contact me off-list if interested. Thanks.
TTFN - Pete.
There is a lot of really cool source code here; a DXF vector library, math and graphics libraries.....
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
>
>Subject: Re: Homebrew Drum Computer
> From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:20:38 +0000 (GMT)
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>> >I didn't think the NTSC system used a delay line at the receiver, but I
>> >must admit I've never repaired a US TV set.
>>
>> Yes they did/do but is was not ultrasonic. The common ones were basically
>> the same as LONG (4.5us?) transmission lines.
>
>Is that a luminance deleay line, to compensate for the different
>bandwidths of the luminance and chromanance channels? PAL sets have those
>as well,
>
>The delay line I was sgggesting for use as a computer memory device is a
>glass block wioth untrasonic transducers on it. It's got a delay period
>of almost one complete line-time, and is used to store one of the
>chromanace signals as part of the PAL decoding process.
I don't know about PAL but one line for NTSC is only 63us and thats
not enough delay.
Computers that used delay lines were in the milliseconds range as they
needed to store a lot of bits/digit/words.
Allison
>
>-tony
Performance.
These are generally the best compilers around, with support for parallelism, distributed memory, loop unrolling, support for vector hardware.... Even using the GPU as a general purpose processor.
High performance parallel computing with Fortran 90 and HPF.
Real men code in FORTRAN
;)
> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:05:14 -0800
> From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: have you seen www.fortran.com?
>
> I realize that old doggies die hard, but who except
> for the scientific/engineering crowd would want to
> create new apps, and for what reason? I imagine there
> could be some good reasons to port old (iron?) code to
> peecees, but gcc can compile FORTRAN already (albeit
> only F77).
>
> --- Randy Dawson <rdawson16 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > There is a lot of really cool source code here; a
> > DXF vector library, math and graphics libraries.....
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows
> > Live.
> >
> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
_________________________________________________________________
i?m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect
OK, with my new Origin 2000 machines, I was thinking that I could use
these SGI drives+sleds that I had purchased previously, where the
seller said they would work in Onyx2/Origin machines. However, while
the sleds appear compatible, the drive interface is not.
Is there any online guide that compares the different drive sled
designs for SGI machines so that I can compare what's being offered on
ebay to identify the machines that can use it?
For instance, my drives have a high density connector that is only
about 1" long, but the Origin 2000 has a high density connector that
looks to be about 2-2.5" long.
Is my only recourse to scrape through individual manuals to try and
find diagrams?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
On Dec 16, 2007, at 11:19 PM, Richard wrote:
>> OK, with my new Origin 2000 machines, I was thinking that I could use
>> these SGI drives+sleds that I had purchased previously, where the
>> seller said they would work in Onyx2/Origin machines. However, while
>> the sleds appear compatible, the drive interface is not.
>>
>> Is there any online guide that compares the different drive sled
>> designs for SGI machines so that I can compare what's being offered on
>> ebay to identify the machines that can use it?
There is, sadly it is at the SGI Addict (www.sgiaddict.net) which is
inconsistently up. This is most useful for the older sleds with
integral connectors, modern SGI sleds are (I believe) one of three
types: O2 (wouldn't come close to fitting), Octane/Origin200/000/Onyx2
(works), and Origin300/000
>>
>> For instance, my drives have a high density connector that is only
>> about 1" long, but the Origin 2000 has a high density connector that
>> looks to be about 2-2.5" long.
>>
A drive with a 1" long connector very similar to a SCSI SCA connector
is probably FC (Fiber Channel). If you have a newish Sun (Blade
1000/2000 era) you can check, as the main interface in these is FC.
The FC drives I have (Seagates) have a model number ending in FC. Some
of the SGI Vaults/InfiniteStorage arrays do use FC disks, so it's
possible that these came out of one of those. Sadly, I'm not sure that
the Qlogic FC interfaces are bootable, so you might not be able to use
them as a system disk.
With a sharp enough v-notch and very gradual abrasion from the
outside, is should be possible to make the gap less than one thou.
This is sort of the inverse of the way they made the point contacts
for the first transistor at Bell Labs.
-Bobby
> >So, aside from the mumbles, does this sound like a workable plan?
>
> Ah no. the gaps have to be narrow less than .001". that hs been done
> two peice ferrite heads (half beads) with oe side of the magnetic
> circuit
> filled with .001" thick brass shim stock.
>
> Or you could pull the heads from a number of old floppies.
>
> The 14" platter is a good source for media.
>
>
> Allison
>
RIght. But it would be plenty big for registers, say. Those delay
lines have 4.5MHz bandwidth (I think...), so they ought to be able to
handle a short series of pulses; 16 bits should be easy, and 32 might
work, too. An analog guru could probably squeeze more in 64us.
-Bobby
> > ...
> >The delay line I was sgggesting for use as a computer memory
> device is a
> >glass block wioth untrasonic transducers on it. It's got a delay
> period
> >of almost one complete line-time, and is used to store one of the
> >chromanace signals as part of the PAL decoding process.
>
> I don't know about PAL but one line for NTSC is only 63us and thats
> not enough delay.
>
> Computers that used delay lines were in the milliseconds range as they
> needed to store a lot of bits/digit/words.
>
>
> Allison
>
I've come across a reference to a reverb unit made with a garden
hose, speaker, and microphone. Would something as bone-headed as
this work as a data delay line?
I've read that mercury was used in delay lines because it was a
better impedance match with quartz transducers, but wouldn't water
work nearly as well? Everything would need to be kept at a constant
temperature, and no doubt there would be some dispersion of the
compression waves. It's my understanding that a lot of materials
were tried for delay lines, but that mercury was the "best."
Magnetostrictive delay lines are attractive, though I hear they are
more than a little microphonic. I notice that most magnetostrictive
delay line designs use the transducers to generate torsional waves,
which apparently suffer less from dispersion and have a slower
propagation speed to boot. The pictures I've seen show the
transductive materials spot welded to the delay wire such that they
twist the wire when a magnetic pulse is applied:
http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/delayline.html
Does anybody know how well plain nickel wire would work OK, or would
some more exotic like Terfenol-D be required? The delay wire itself
need not be magnetostrictive; it's just the storage medium.
-Bobby