test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by tiggerlasv＠aim.com

Has anyone seen sources floating around for WATBOL for the PDP ? Thanks in advance! Tim ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - http://webmail.aim.com

18 years, 4 months

Wanted: System Industries QS1000 documentation / manual

by tiggerlasv＠aim.com

Greetings. . . I'm looking for documentation on a System Industries QS1000 SCSI controller for the Q-bus. I've tried the usual web searches, and checked out bitsavers and manx, to no avail. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Tim ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - http://webmail.aim.com

18 years, 4 months

E: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Now that sounds familiar. Two for an 80 character line (8bits) 7 bits for the ASCII code and one for the extending under line cursor. 48 for 24 lines = six rows of eight on the board. Add address counters etc. Yup that could have been it. Rod -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Steve Thatcher Sent: 20 December 2007 20:18 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: E: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV actually Texas Instruments had a quad 80 bit MOS shift register package available in the early to mid seventies. I had used two of them for a frame buffer on a CRT controller design I did. The part number was TMS3409 I believe and it was something I got from the surplus market. -----Original Message----- >From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> >Sent: Dec 20, 2007 10:40 AM >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: E: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV > > From: "Rod Smallwood" <RodSmallwood at mail.ediconsulting.co.uk> > >> I actually worked on VDU's that used shift registers as the display >> memory around 1973.

18 years, 4 months

Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV sets)

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

The next VDU design after that was a sort of state mahine. Rod -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: 20 December 2007 21:58 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV sets) > > I actually worked on VDU's that used shift registers as the display > memory around 1973. > If I remember correctly one lines worth (80 characters) got > transferred to a buffer in the interline gap (Fly back time). The > buffer was scanned out in such a way as to address the character > generator one row at a time. Characters were 7x5 dots so the top five > dots of the first character was serialized followed by the top row of > the second one and so on. Then all of the second character row dots on > a line would be displayed until the end of the store (and therefore > frame was reached) The HP9866A thermal printer used MOS shift registers for character storage. I am tryign to recall the details, because it's not as obvious as you might think. From memory : The printhead is the full width of the paper, with 400 eleemnts (80 charas * 5 dots/char). Physically it's made up of 4 modules. IIRC each printhead module is divided up into 4 sectiosn, each of 5 characters, and I think they're interleaved (so characters 0, 4, 8,... are one section, 1, 5, 9,... are the next and so on. I might have got that wrong, though) Incoming characters (7 bit ASCII) are re-encoded to 6 bits (it's an upper-case only printer, so 6 bits is enoguh) and stored in 6 80-bit Shift registers (physcially 3 TO99 cans). When the printer dtects a LF character, the more comlicated parts starts up. This reads ou the shift retgisters, every fourth character is sent to the character geenrator ROM, and the bit pattern for the top row is shfited into a set of 5 (one for each column of the chracters) 20 bit shift registers (I think the chips used are 8203s) which drive the printehad. That pattern or dots is printed The shift registers are run rount again, now the next set of chars taken throgh the character gernearotr ROM. to the printhead shift registers, and printed After the top row of all 80 characters has been printed, the paper is moved up one dot-line, and the process is repeated, only this time the character generatoter ROM outputs the patterns for the second row of the characters. And so on until the complete characters have been printed. This is controlled by a state machine that looks simple as a schematic (a handful of chips), but is not easy to understnad! -tony

18 years, 4 months

The 2N2/256-BSCP [was: Homebrew Drum Computer]

by bnansel＠bigpond.net.au

Thu Dec 20 2007 at 06:55 Dave McGuire wrote: > Well then you'd have the problem of defining "most powerful". By > many metrics, any VAX is an incredibly powerful system, but the > average > not-so-powerful modern PeeCee will blow its doors off in integer > performance. So how will you define "power"? > > -Dave Good question. Wish I'd asked it myself :) It could be any number of things. Myself, I'm going to eventually use it for a "simple" robot rover (more "museum piece" engineering ... it's a long story; ask me by private e-mail if you really want to know). Most people would probably do something different, though. Here's an idea: a machine powerful enough to serve a simple webpage with minimal graphics, a page views counter, and, oh, maybe a few links elsewhere. After all, these days Real Computers are all on the web, right :) I am not a web head, but it seems this ought to be doable. Shucks, if a Commodore 64 can browse web pages, this ought to be relatively straightforward. Sort reminds me of a guy I knew in the early '80s who recorded modem tones and about a page of 1200 baud bulletin board data on his answering machine outgoing message tape. He said it was to drive the then new phenomenon of computer hackers crazy.... -Bobby

18 years, 4 months

More stuff to get rid of (terminals) [UK]

by classiccmp＠memory-alpha.org.uk

The clearout continues.... I've turned up a couple of Televideo 950s and a couple of Wyse 30s if anyone wants them? AFAIK The Wyse 30s are fully functional (though bear in mind I haven't used them for some 7 years), but I think the TV950s may need some TLC - I vaguely remember them having problems communicating with their respective keybaords the last time I used them (they'd make a good source of spares though). There's also a Zenith Z89 available, which definitely needs some work doing on it. Again, probably best used for spares for a working unit. All of these are available free for pickup from Birmingham before the end of January (whereupon any computer crap left in my house *WILL* be unceremoniously junked). BTW I've also turned up a number of old "Micro Decision" magazines from 1989/90 if anyone wants them (they were heading for the recycling bin, but with the amount of stuff I've chucked in there tonight they simply won't fit). They'll be heading for the recycler next fortnight, so speak up now if you want them! As usual, contact me off-list if interested. TTFN - Pete.

18 years, 4 months

KayPro II keyboard schematic

by cclist＠sydex.com

> From: "Andrew Lynch" <lynchaj at yahoo.com> > Does anyone have a schematic for *simple* hardware only circuit using a > commonly available UART, like an 8251 or 8250, to do the serial to > parallel conversion? I am looking for a schematic which I can easily > modify to strap the UART to 300bps operation. If you don't want programmable logic, an 8251 or 8250 isn't going to be what you want. Try a TR1602 or TR1865 or any of the other "hardwire" UARTS--set parity, data bits, etc. by connecting appropriate pins to Vcc or GND; put the serial data in on one pin and take the parallel data out on 8 pins. No programming needed. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 4 months

Homebrew Drum Computer (magnetic heads)

by cclist＠sydex.com

Fred wrote: > That was less than 30 years ago. > Intro'd at 3rd West Coast Computer Faire? > (the one time that it was in southern CA) I used to get the newsletters from Exatron. I seem to recall (probably a sign of an impending ischemic event) that someone wrote a ditty in praise of their product and published it in one of those. Did anyone hang on to the newsletters? It started with "I love my Stringy Floppy..." or some such. > Actually, I think that he was referring to uses of empty 8 track cases for > ROM cartridges. Ah, so not magnetic at all and not germane to the topic. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 4 months

The 2N2/256-BSCP [was: Homebrew Drum Computer]

by bnansel＠bigpond.net.au

That's BSCP as in "Bit-Serial Computer Project." The 2N2/256 part of the name is a nod to ham homebrewer Jim Kortge (K8IQY) who designed a QRP rig called the 2N2/40 for a design contest about ten years ago. The contest objective was to design and build a functional amateur radio transceiver, using a maximum of twenty-two 2N2222 type transistors. Whether it uses drums, disks, or ultrasonic delay lines, my challenge is: 1) To build a complete functional computer, including memory, using no more than 256 2N2222-ish transistors (plus scads of diodes, resistors, etc.). 2) Use no ICs or other parts that wouldn't have been available to hobbyists ca. 1965. 3) Must be transportable in the boot of a mid-size sedan (i.e. a few roughly 350mm cubical modules). Anybody up for a contest to see who can design the most powerful general-purpose digital computer given these constraints? I guess we'd have to figure out what "powerful" means in this context, given that it's likely never to exceed a few KIPS. I'm prototyping DTL NAND gates and flip-flops today... -Bobby

18 years, 4 months

Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV sets)

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

I actually worked on VDU's that used shift registers as the display memory around 1973. If I remember correctly one lines worth (80 characters) got transferred to a buffer in the interline gap (Fly back time). The buffer was scanned out in such a way as to address the character generator one row at a time. Characters were 7x5 dots so the top five dots of the first character was serialized followed by the top row of the second one and so on. Then all of the second character row dots on a line would be displayed until the end of the store (and therefore frame was reached) New characters would join the tail end (first unused position) of the store as it went past. Rod Smallwood Sitting in my DEC chair in the SUN shine. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of M H Stein Sent: 18 December 2007 19:28 To: 'cctalk at classiccmp.org' Subject: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV sets) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:03:34 +0000 From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov> Subject: Re: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV sets) On Mon, Dec 17, 2007 at 06:52:59PM -0500, Allison wrote: >> MOS shift registers of lengths greater than a few bits are very late >> 60s (after 67 or so). By early 70s parts 1024 long ere not uncommon. >I think I have a couple of old SAD1024 MOS shift registers from when I >was collecting deeply discounted items from the local Radio Shack >"Manager's Table" as a kid. >I had thought one day to make the audio echo/delay circuit I think I >saw in an old Forrest Mims circuit book, but a solid-state acoustic >delay line emulator sounds like a much cooler place to put them. >-ethan ___________ Sounds like our shopping habits were the same in those golden days at the 'shack ;-); I've still got a couple waiting for me to get a round tuit (the data sheet also has the bucket brigade audio delay schematic). As a digital delay line I guess you could even use it word-wise since it's analog; you'd need some pretty fast DAC/ADCs though. mike

18 years, 4 months

Anyone have a Compaq SystemPro?

by steve＠radiorobots.com

Looking for an early Compaq SystemPro for public display. Steve

18 years, 4 months

Homebrew Drum Computer (magnetic heads)

by cclist＠sydex.com

From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> > Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > > Did any company ever actually produce a storage product that used > > 8-track carts (or indeed broadcast carts)? > > I presume somebody's mentioned Exidy already? (hey, you didn't specify > that the cartridges had to have the correct guts...) Did you perhaps mean Exatron as in "stringy floppy"? Or am I showing my age again? Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 4 months

E: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV

by melamy＠earthlink.net

actually Texas Instruments had a quad 80 bit MOS shift register package available in the early to mid seventies. I had used two of them for a frame buffer on a CRT controller design I did. The part number was TMS3409 I believe and it was something I got from the surplus market. -----Original Message----- >From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> >Sent: Dec 20, 2007 10:40 AM >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: E: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV > > From: "Rod Smallwood" <RodSmallwood at mail.ediconsulting.co.uk> > >> I actually worked on VDU's that used shift registers as the display >> memory around 1973.

18 years, 4 months

E: Shift Registers as Delay Lines (was Delay lines in TV

by cclist＠sydex.com

From: "Rod Smallwood" <RodSmallwood at mail.ediconsulting.co.uk> > I actually worked on VDU's that used shift registers as the display > memory around 1973. The Beehive terminal I used around 1975 used an 8008 and a bunch of MOS shift registers for memory. No conventional SRAM/DRAM at all. I recall the parts were small 8-pin DIPs. My 1969 Moto Microelectronics databook shows only a handful of MOS devices: MC1124L - Quad T flip-flop MC1141G - Triple 66-bit dynamic shift register MC1150L - 8 channel MUX switch MC1151L - 2-of-8 channel MUX switch So it's doubtful that MOS shift registers would meet the 1965 criterion at all. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 4 months

have you seen www.fortran.com?

by cclist＠sydex.com

> From: Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> > I get the basic jist of what you're saying I guess. > Can you a counter example for clarity? Nope--I'm not going to get nudged for off-topic conversation. Clearly, FORTRAN has nothing to do with vintage computers. > This is going to sound like a stupid question, but > given it's typical applications - scientific and > engineering - why the need for such speed? Oh, atomic bomb explosion simulations, predicting tomorrow's weather, etc. I recall working on a proposal back in the 1970s to supply systems to ECMWF (look it up). One of the fellows I spoke with said something to the effect of: "Golly that's great; now if you could provide us with something about 1000 times faster, we might be able to figure out if it'll rain tomorrow..." > stupid question. Would a modernish pc port lend itself > well to writing some kind of modernish game? > Who else besides the world's worst nerds use it? And > along those lines was COBOL used for anything other > then business apps? I don't know what current implementations of Fortran 2003 are out there for the PC currently, so I can't comment. My last serious involvement with FORTRAN was as an alternate on the F90 (we foolishly called it "FORTRAN 8x" back then. That's optimism for you) vector extensions working group. Talk about some donnybrooks between vendors... I haven't really done anything major with FORTRAN since then and I doubt that I can even understand some of the more exotic aspects of the most modern dialect (F2008 is due out next year). But then, ANSI isn't ANSI anymore--it's INCITS and X3J3 is now just J3. Times change. > Relate to disk archiving? Ok dumb question. Just the basic sector I/O stuff was assembly; all of the logical decipherment was FORTRAN. It made the project go much faster without the verbosity of PL/M. > Oh you don't say. What other languages have reliable, > presumably floating-point capability today? What's gcc > like? Are there cheap Windoze implements? I'm talking about the real hard-bitten mathematicians who run a bunch of data through a vendor's math library and say "Feh--garbage. Let's write our own." I remember commenting about the routines (in FORTRAN, of course) in my just-purchased copy of Cody and Waite to a friend of that persuasion. His face looked about like it would have if I'dve said "You know, the Yugo is really a very fine luxury car." It used to be that the FORTRAN mathlibs at places like Los Alamos and Lawrence Livermore were second to none. Sadly, I don't know if that's true anymore. Sigh...back to assembly for now and cursing idiots who still can't write a decent macro assembler... Back on topic before I'm castigated. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 4 months

Homebrew Drum Computer architecture

by bnansel＠bigpond.net.au

Thanks for all the great ideas so far! In no particular order: * Delay lines: I have a junk magnetostrictive DL on the way. I don't know if it works. * The idea behind using cassette heads is just to test out my logic and R/W amplifiers at s-l-o-w speed. A baby step. The high-speed stuff would come later. I do have a small lathe (a Taig), so I can handle some of the machining, provided the drum is small (around 4" dia x 9" long). If I can rig a tool-post grinder I might be able to do all of it. * As for the drum coating, it would either be plated with nickel or coated with a mixture of ferric oxide and epoxy. Now for some more questions: I haven't settled on the machine architecture yet. I was thinking a smaller word size would be better because the recirculating registers would have lower latency; that is, a 16-bit word would halve the word time vs. a 32-bit word. Does this make sense? One of the big problems with drum machines is the need to ensure instructions are optimally placed on the drum. To lighten the load a bit I'm considering making it a zero-address stack machine. Then I only have to worry about the occasional random access reads/writes. I was thinking I would implement a data stack and a return stack, each being made of short recirculating buffers to hold the top two or three stack entries, with the older entries swapped to longer buffers with corresponding longer access times. Allowing for the overall insanity level of this project, is this seem a sane strategy? -Bobby

18 years, 4 months

VT-100 emulator

by dave06a＠dunfield.com

I've posted the latest VT-100 emulator to my site: www.classiccmp.org/dunfield It's in the "Download simulators and emulators" section near the end of the main page. There's also a link under the VT-100 entry in "Assorted terminals". I've renamed it to "PC100", which seems more descriptive of it's current functionality. I'm interested in hearing about any VT-100 incompatibilities that you might discover in it, as I'd like to make it as close to 100% as is possible on the PC. Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

18 years, 4 months

Homebrew Drum Computer (magnetic heads)

by drb＠msu.edu

> Did any company ever actually produce a storage product that used > 8-track carts (or indeed broadcast carts)? Did it work? There were commercial systems based on VHS decks, good for a couple of GB per tape. Prime actually sold them briefly, iirc. The company I worked for at the time sold a few such systems to our customers, and made them work. I recall video tape quality being critical. De

18 years, 4 months

IBM Bookmanager reader

by mbbrutman-cctalk＠brutman.com

This was a pleasant surprise .. a Java version of the reader for IBM BookManager files: http://www-306.ibm.com/software/applications/office/bkmgr/softcopyread.html It makes some of my old documentation much more accessible. Sadly, it is a 66MB download. (It is also Java code, but requires Windows.) Mike

18 years, 4 months

The 2N2/256-BSCP [was: Homebrew Drum Computer]

by bnansel＠bigpond.net.au

On Thu Dec 20, 2007 at 02:11 Jim Battle said: > Rather than a magnetic drum, I think a much more achievable > contraption > is a drum that uses capacitance for storage. ... Ha! Just like the Atanasoff-Berry machine. Someone else mentioned using a toner drum, but as a smooth surface on which to put an oxide coating to make it into a magnetic drum. I wonder how fast one could optically write charge to a toner drum? Readout could be through capacitive coupling, no contact at all. I 'spose the antecedent to a disc version of the above would be, what, a Wimshurst machine? :) > ... > It sure isn't going to do 3000 RPM, but perhaps 1/10 of that speed, > and > it will make a nice clatter I suppose. But since you are setting a > limit of 256 transistors, you shouldn't really be aiming for high > performance anyway. No, no! The drum is the limiting factor on speed. Fast drum == slow computer; slow drum == intolerably slow computer. -B

18 years, 4 months

Looking for ThinkPads

by g-wright＠att.net

-------------- Original message from "Steven Canning" <cannings at earthlink.net>: -------------- > Sridhar, > > I have a bunch of the 760s ...? They weigh a ton ! But at least they are > working. Currently running Windoze 3.1 and DOS mostly to control test > equipment. > > Best regards, Steven > > 760's make very good Dumb Terminals. I have 3 here with Procomm on them. Use them everyday for testing systems. and recording the sessions. Very nice screens. The 860 is a Power PC ThinkPad, which is getting hard to find. They where very expensive in there day. - Jerry Jerry Wright JLC inc

18 years, 4 months

Good finds this weekend

by Commtekman＠aol.com

Hi, I am trying to locate the TT manual for the 15E paper winder, any idea on where to get one ? Thanks Bob K6OSM McCall, Idaho commtekman at aol.com **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

18 years, 4 months

KayPro II keyboard schematic

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Got a UART? It will make the Kaypro keyboard output into parallel without changing a thing. The signal's 300 baud RS-232 at TTL levels. Bob Maxwell ------REPLY------ Hi Bob! Thanks to everyone who replied to my question. They have been very helpful. The goal of this project is to interface the Kaypro II serial keyboard to a Vector Graphic Flashwriter II video board. It requires 8 bits of parallel input (TTL levels) and a strobe. It provides +5v and ground connections. The interface is 8 bits of data, 1 strobe line, +5v, and ground connected to an intel 8212 parallel interface chip. Does anyone have a schematic for *simple* hardware only circuit using a commonly available UART, like an 8251 or 8250, to do the serial to parallel conversion? I am looking for a schematic which I can easily modify to strap the UART to 300bps operation. Really, I'd like to stress a *simple* circuit using a small number of chips and discrete components on a small protoboard. Preferably with +5v only operation. Even a hand drawn example or one in a datasheet would be great. I have searched on the internet for a simple circuit but have not found anything I could use. Please no MCU's or programmable devices, I realize how appealing they are but they require learning time consuming programming environments and I am pressed for time at the moment. Thanks in advance for any help! Andrew Lynch

18 years, 4 months

GRID computer available in So Cal

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Three point twenty was the first version that directly supported 720K from > MICROS~1, although there were a LOT of two point elevens, such as Gavilan > that were set up by OEMS to do it. That reminds me--I located a nice black vinyl binder and slipcase with Grid MS-DOS 3.20 docs and disks in it. Grid did have its own version of the MODE command as well as a few other utilities. Since I no longer own a Grid, if anyone wants it (and is willing to pay shipping), it's up for grabs. Email me off-list if you're interested. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 4 months

have you seen www.fortran.com?

by cclist＠sydex.com

> From: Tom Watson <tsw-cc at johana.com> > > Ob Keypunch: Back in the day they had a Control Data Institute ad on TV > that boasted "Do you like working with your hands and not getting your > fingernails dirty?", I then remarked that this guy has NEVER replaced a > keypunch ribbon. (*SIGH*) those days were much more fun!! I used to tease the CDC CE's with that line when they were digging bits and pieces of shredded printer ribbon out of a 512 printer type train (a not infrequent occurrence). If looks could kill... Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 4 months

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