test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by silent700＠gmail.com

Time to unload the last of my duplicates. Here's a handy list: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwMUKqpaWv1cq2nnM-h0wRA $2/issue for anything 1984 and before. Anything I can get for the later ones :) Bulk purchases encouraged! All costs + shipping by Media Mail rate (or faster if you prefer) from 60074. Of course local pickup is fine, too. Help me clear out some space and save these from the recycler! -- jht

18 years, 2 months

Preserving contents of QIC-150 from (probably) RSX11.

by trasz＠FreeBSD.org

I've got a QIC-150 tape (3M DC6150) with some backup on it, probably >from RSX11. Table of contents (paper one) reads: RSXCTDQ0 RSXCTDQ1 RSXSMDM0 CTDQKIT2 ALISAKIT2 ALISASM I have no idea what it is, I have no experience with RSX11 and I need that tape (physical medium) for other purpose. What's the best way to preserve the contents, preferably using FreeBSD? Is repeated 'dd if=/dev/nsa0 of=output_file1', 'dd if=/dev/nsa0 of=output_file2' until end-of-media enough? Drive is Wangtek 5150ES. -- If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?

18 years, 2 months

Last call: Wyse WY-55 manual, Introduction to the Sirius 1 Computer - FTGH (UK)

by listmailgoeshere＠gmail.com

Hi list, The above need to find a new home within about a week or they get recycled. Free, but you pay shipping. Will ship to anywhere in the world. Please reply directly to me as list traffic is still a bit funny for me atm. Thanks, Ed.

18 years, 2 months

The "who lives where" map...

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 10:43 AM 2/12/2008, you wrote: >http://www.frappr.com/?a=constellation_map&mapid=137440346730 > >How's that? Easy enough! Strange that Frappr's address-to-location isn't as accurate as Google Maps, though. It placed me in the wrong place twice and it's still not right. - John

18 years, 2 months

another one missed

by hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca

A fellow I knew years ago just phoned me for some help rejuvenating some old analog instrumentation chart recorders - he collects such stuff apparently. He works as an operator at one of the oil depots in the region (downsized from a refinery a couple of years ago) and is preparing displays for their 50th anniversary. After the instrumentation stuff was discussed, and knowing where he worked, I started telling him the story of the scrapped Foxboro processor at the old refinery closer to me (I told that story on the list a couple of years ago), kind of angling to find out what might be the state of the old computer control system where he worked. He said "Do you know 'Digital' computers? When the refinery was decomm'ed we threw out an 11/70, it was spread across like 4 racks. Boy, I woulda called ya if I knew you were into stuff like that, it was sad to see it scrapped." ho hum. (.. and just checked the 11/40 on ebay to see it hit over $1000.)

18 years, 2 months

Reading Polymorphic hard sectored double density disk

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

Hi I made good progress today. I got the programmer working again. I'm now doing 2716s on the PB-10 again. I blew some more test code and also figured what the problem was with the controller. Previously, I'd gotten the frequencies change in the crystal and PLL circuits. I got to the point that it appeared to be reading the disk into the USART chip but not getting data into the dual ported RAM. It was still erroring on the header. I wrote code to ignore the header and tried that. It still seemed to be missing the header data. This is when the programmer decided to cause problems. While waiting to get parts I realized what the problem was with the controller. I was running everything from the memory window in the Poly88s monitor. Every time it updates a single byte, it rereads a large block of memory to put into the display. I was pointing to the RAM that was double ported and this stole cycles from the controllers time. This caused missed bytes from the USART. I wrote some simple code in another area of memory and used that to initiate the read command. It was then reading the header and data without missing any of the header or data. I expect I'll soon make greater progress. I need to delay some before reading the double ported RAM or the controller will miss the first few bytes. I need to write my serial transfer and finish the code for reading the sectors. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/

18 years, 2 months

MSX Joystick

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

Urgh, apologies for any font issues. Had to copy and paste my reply as Yahoo failed to deliver it to the classiccmp servers twice! Not sure if bounced or not, but here's the error message: Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 time travel between hops [BODY] Classiccmp.org rejected it once, giving this error message:<cctalk at classiccmp.org>: Remote host said: 553 5.3.0 Spam blocked see: http://spamcop.net/bl.shtml?76.13.13.74 [MAIL_FROM] This last (and 4th) attempt at replying, is being done from Outlook Express onmy laptop as opposed to Yahoo's webmail. My reply: Would it work with a Famicom (Japanese SNES) mouse? Since it was compatible with MSX games it might work, but probably doesn't fall into the "easily obtainable" category :( Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk Syd Bolton <sbolton at bfree.on.ca> wrote: I see the pinouts online but haven't checked to > see if it's compatible with a standard Atari type joystick. >Sure it is! > Interesting how MSX devices are unknown here...They are so popular in >Brazil! That's just how it goes! OK second part of my question then: what about the mouse? What other more easily obtainable mouse would work on the MSX machine? Commodore made mice with 9-pin connectors for the C64 but I doubt it would work or the Amiga one .... and of course, the "serial" mouse from a PC I would expect won't work as well. Or....I guess more easily does anyone out there have an MSX compatible mouse they'd like to sell me for the museum? Thanks

18 years, 2 months

Test

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

This is a test email to see if it makes it through to the list. The last 3 attempts at replying to a message were bounced (twice by Yahoo and once by Classiccmp servers). If this makes it through please ignore. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

18 years, 2 months

Digitalker, SP0256, and SC-01 speech chips

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:37:46 -0800 > From: Brent Hilpert > Reading the Osborne book some time ago I got the impression the SMS300 > might be considered the first (micro-)DSP. Extracts: > > "The SMS300 is described by its manufacturer as a "microcontroller" > rather than a "microprocessor". This distinction draws attention to the > very unique capabilities of the SMS300 which make it the most > remarkable device described in this book." > > "The SMS300 is designed to serve as a signal processor, operating > at very high speed. The SMS300 can handle applications of this type at > more than 10 times the speed of any other device described in this > book." > > "If yours is a high speed signal processing application, then give > the SMS300 serious consideration; otherwise, the SMS300 is probably not > for you." It's true that the SMS300/8X300 was pretty fast for the time (instruction time was 250 nsec., consisting of 4 cycles of 62.5 nsec), the instruction set was very limited, as was the data addressing (256 bytes each for right and left I/O register banks). As to the limits of the implementation, consider the benchmark implementation in the Osborne book. If I had to guess, I'd say that where the 8x300 saw most of its application was in hard disk controllers. About the only other alternative in the day was to employ bit-slice logic or discrete TTL. I suppose I'd characterize the 8x300 as being halfway between bit- slice such as 2901 and a full-blown microprocessor like an 8080. Since this was a Harvard-architecture design, one way to extend the instruction set was to add additional bits onto the normally 16-bit wide instruction store and use them to implement additional functions. The limit of addressability of the instruction store was 8192 words. In fact, the 8x305 couldn't support its own development system. The SDK was initially offered as a board that could be plugged into the GI GIMINI CP1600 development system. Later, Signetics bundled the 8X305 as a signle-board SDK using an Intel 8035 to handle user interface functions. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 2 months

Computer in 1900

by cclist＠sydex.com

> From: "Gavin Melville" > I had looked at relays, and while there certainly were relays in 1900, I > doubt they were very good in terms of bounce, actuation time etc. The > building where I work has an Otis made lift dating from 1980, done > completely with relays. It's fairly unreliable, and a lot of the relays > have to be fiddled with springs, copper disks, iron slugs etc. (Some of > them were designed that way, and some just needed it to make them work). As a counter-example, consider the Panama Canal, opened in 1914. All- electric run from a central control pulpit. With control circuitry designed by Edward Schildhauer, the equipment is still in service today, though it's due to be replaced. Relays and primitive servo motors were part of the whole affair. (BTW, some 1,500 electric motors are involved in the operation. I recall seeing a photo of some of the control circuitry--brass and varnished wood. It was a thing of beauty.) Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 2 months

RFC: Floppy reader/writer project (recovering UniPlus Unix for the Lisa)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Any chance someone else on this list has a copy of UniPlus Unix? printf(" UniSoft Corporation\n"); printf(" LISA UniPlus+ Serialization Program\n\n"); start: printf("Do you want to make a boot diskette (serialize)?\n"); printf("('y' or 'n') ");

18 years, 2 months

EPROM programmer

by brain＠jbrain.com

It appears I've staved off buying one of these too long and now I need one. Way back in the day, I used an ART EPP1, and I liked the serial connection (as I could use it from any machine,not just a PC). But, there are lots of options today. My primary interest is in replicating CBM KERNAL roms, though I would not mind uC programming capabilities. What do other people use for eprom programming? I see a slew of Willem programmers, but I don't understand why there are so many variants. A bummer is that they all use the Paallel Port, as far as I can tell. Jim

18 years, 2 months

FS: LD-V1000

by renagade13＠roadrunner.com

The message I found is old but I was wonderig if you still had any LD-V1000 laser disk players available. If so please send me an email with price. Thanks.

18 years, 2 months

EPROM programmer

by jack.rubin＠ameritech.net

> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:02:24 -0600 > From: Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> > Subject: EPROM programmer > To: Classic Computer Talk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <47B4BA70.9080703 at jbrain.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > What do other people use for eprom programming? I see a slew > of Willem > programmers, but I don't understand why there are so many > variants. A > bummer is that they all use the Paallel Port, as far as I can tell. > > Jim > I ended up getting the True-USB Willem programmer(GQ-3X) Pack PRO from MCUMall and am quite happy with it. Service and support has been pretty good. Not Data I/O by any means but seems to be a pretty good value. USB interface is very convenient. http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_dynamicIndex.asp Jack No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.5/1278 - Release Date: 2/14/2008 10:28 AM

18 years, 2 months

DEC BA440/H7874 Power Bus Connector

by bob＠jfcl.com

Does anybody know if it's possible to interconnect the modular plug style power control bus used on the BA440/H7874 with the older three wire power control bus used on the "traditional" DEC 874/861 power controllers? If it is, does anyone have the pinout for the connecting cable? Thanks, Bob Armstrong

18 years, 2 months

Digitalker, SP0256, and SC-01 speech chips

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:54:01 -0500 > From: Dave McGuire > > As one who has had the extreme displeasure of programming both the > > 8X300 and an 8X305, > > Are they really that bad? How so? Brain-dead in the extreme, although the model might be interesting for the "1900 Computer" thread. You had 8 registers, a shifter and an ALU. R0 was the implied source for binary operations, but not implied as an accumulator. The instruction set was 8 instructions: 1. Move between the register file and the I/O bus 2. Add using R0 betweeen the register file and the I/O bus 3. AND as in (2) 4. XOR as in (2) 5. XMIT - a "Load Immediate" (8 bits to register file, but only 4 bits to I/O bus. 6. XEC - Execute instruction at the location formed by adding the 8- bit immediate field and the contents of a register. 7. NZT - replace the low order 8 bits (or 4 bits if I/O bus is being tested) of the program counter with a literal value if the specified register is nonzero. 8. JMP - unconditionally jump to the 13 bit immediate address. That's it. Thee were some strange conventions with the I/O registers, being designated as "right" and "left" bank which restricted their use in operations. There was one status flag-- overflow--addressable as regiser 8. No interrupts, unless you were fortunate enough to have an 8x310 ICC, which gave you a 4-level stack and 3 interrupts. The 8x310 also gave you some new instructions, implemented by decoding "do nothing" move instructions. You got a PUSH (current PC+2), a RETURN, SET and CLEAR interrupt mask and a clear pending interrupt status. You could use the 310 to implement a CALL by using a PUSH followed by a JMP. But 8x310s were rarely seen. By any measure, the PIC1640 was miles ahead in terms of ease of programming. AFAIK, the relay-based Mark I was the first Harvard architecture machine. Was the 8x300 the first microprocess (maybe too strong a word) to employ Harvard architure? I don't know, but it was an early design. It's interesting to me that, although the PIC claims to have Harvard architure, the model has been violated somewhat in the more advanced PICs. So, for example, members of the PIC18xx series allow for fetching of data values from program memory (TBL instruction) and modifying and re-flashing program memory under program control. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 2 months

Is there a program to analyze a mag tape

by g-wright＠att.net

I a have a lot of mag tape/cartridge tape that I would like to analyze. I there a program that would write the whole tape then read it back, logging the retries and the errors. - Jerry Jerry Wright JLC inc g-wright at at.net

18 years, 2 months

Oldest operational computer

by cclist＠sydex.com

I think that many people are overlooking the matter of available techniques and materials in 1900 when supposing a computer operating in the Kops range was possible. No printed-circuitry; indeed, the mode of much electronic construction was busbar-type wiring on a varnished piece of wood. I don't know when enameled "magnet wire" came into production, but the standard for magnet wire for a long time was silk covering. Hookup wire may have been cotton or cambric, with gutta-percha for insulation. Resistors of any precision would likely have been wirewound. Does one need audions for amplification? Consider early telegraph repeaters or even chart recorders (running on a wind-up spring and recording microvolts). Even audio amplification could be achieved using compressed air. At the time, pneumatics were at a pretty high stage of development. Consider the workings of a player piano or pipe organ. But I think the technology that would have been selected in 1900 would have been mechanical or electro-mechanical. Consider, for example, the work of Leonardo Torres Quevedo. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 2 months

Circuit Cellar CCSEP EPROM programmer

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:24:44 -0500 From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> Subject: Re: EPROM programmer On Friday 15 February 2008 04:15, M H Stein wrote: >> The manual has pretty clear instructions for changing the baud rate, up to >> 19.2 (pp. 8&9); you'll need 2x27128 unless you have a second programmer. >Eh? I don't have the manual with mine, but 2x27128 shouldn't be a problem, >I guess. ----- With the version 1 S/W you have to burn a copy of the system ROM first in order to patch it and then burn the final version. Version 2 of the S/W has an option (12) to copy the system ROM to RAM (if you have enough installed) so you only need to burn one 27128. === >> See MCM68764 & MCM68766 (24 pin 8Kx8) >I wasn't aware of these. Though I suppose I'd still need an adapter, for the >programmer? I'll look for some data on them. ---- Not necessarily; the V2 S/W has provisions for user-defined EPROM parameters, but I don't know offhand whether the hardware can accommodate 68754/6s (or 2532s for that matter). mike

18 years, 2 months

cctech Digest, Vol 54, Issue 22 (was PIC history)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> IIRC the lead designers were Don Butler and Ken Naife (sp?) and the > manager was Steve Maine (all English to split hairs, although they had > migrated to Long Island from GI in Glenrothes, Scotland) Thank you for the correction. These were all memories that I hadn't thought about since the late 70's. Looking at the data book scans, the 1640 existed well before I spent any time there. I did remember the Glenrothes connection but not much more of the details. The point was that the designers weren't very likely to have any connection with a west coast company (SMS). This all was my first exposure to IC fab and design. Pretty interesting stuff for a kid like me who grew up in rural Wisconsin..

18 years, 2 months

Digitalker, SP0256, and SC-01 speech chips

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:01:04 -0500 > From: Dave McGuire > Doubtful, as it's just the same architecture, and far from the > same implementation. The 8X30x chips are bipolar, if memory serves. But > either way, I'm not sure what the point would be, aside from possibly > building new boards using an existing 8X30x MSCP implementation. As one who has had the extreme displeasure of programming both the 8X300 and an 8X305, I'd have to say that the two have about as much in common with a PIC as a pocket knife to an CNC EDM system. The instruction sets aren't even close, nor is the data path architecture. In some respects, the bipolar chip has a bit more flexibility (e.g. variable-length operations and an "execute" instruction) even with its limitation of an instruction set of size 8. On the other hand, the PIC1640, developed for the CP1600 in 1976 is clearly recognizable as a cousin to the modern PIC, right down to the W register. The odd thing was that the PIC1640 used a 12-bit instruction word, while the CP1600 used 10 bits of the instruction word, even though it was a 16-bit CPU. The CP1600 wasn't particularly deficient in I/O operations--it simply didn't have any. Couple that with a 1MHz clock and multi-word instructions and you had a very slow system, even compared to a 2MHz 8080. On the other hand, the instruction set was very pleasant and fairly orthogonal--it might remind one of a PDP-11 instruction set. Do you have a cite that states that the PIC1640 is a direct descendent of the SMS 300? Microchip certainly doesn't admit it--and I'd be hard pressed to find the similarity beyond both being Harvard architecture binary CPUs. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 2 months

Oldest operational computer

by cclist＠sydex.com

> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:38:24 +0100 (CET) > From: Christian Corti > And what's special about that? Historically a "computer" is a person who > does computations (what else?), this job description may well originate > from the 19th century. And a "compiler" generally is/was an insult for > someone, mostly for scientists/students and the like, because that meant > that they "compiled" their work mostly/completely from foreign texts. Indeed. I recall that the preface to the ANSI FORTRAN specifications >from at least F77 state that no attempt is being made to specify what is meant by a "computer" and that it could well be a human being. I'm not sure, but I think the CODASYL documents say the same thing. I also recall a dialogue with one of the WWII codebreakers where the "Computer Room" was where the folks using pencil and paper and comptometers worked. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 2 months

cctech Digest, Vol 54, Issue 22

by Bob.Adamson＠sli-institute.ac.uk

Al Kossov said: > That seems highly unlikely. The PIC was being worked on at GI on > Long Island when I was doing a project for GI in the late 70's on > a CP-1600 system. The designers were Scottish. I tried to convince them > to make the architecture more like the 1600's (ie. PDP-11 like) because > I thought the 11 was a better architecture than what they were coming up > with. IIRC the lead designers were Don Butler and Ken Naife (sp?) and the manager was Steve Maine (all English to split hairs, although they had migrated to Long Island from GI in Glenrothes, Scotland) who had earlier worked on the Mattel games chips. This design team was earlier the top end of the Hughes Microelectronics design group based in Weybridge (where I also worked) but split off to join the embryonic GI in Glenrothes. The GI Glenrothes facility was actually started up by a breakaway group of the bulk of the senior management of Elliots Microelectronics also in Glenrothes when GEC took the decision to move the facility south and amalgamate it with some other scraps of GEC's empire. Oddly I also worked for both Elliott's and later GEC's microelectronics companies - a small incestuous world in those days. The PIC at that time was an nmos design and the first of the cmos family was still being worked on when I left GI in 1982. regards Bob Adamson

18 years, 2 months

Computer in 1900

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Where was all the technology in 1900? Railways - Signaling systems, Switches(Points) control. Warships - Gun control and ranging. Navigation. Telephone systems Wireless There must have been something computer like in that lot somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of woodelf Sent: 15 February 2008 14:54 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Computer in 1900 Brent Hilpert wrote: > To be realisitic about what might have been accomplished in 1900 the > whole issue of building a large system of hundreds/thousands of > components needs to be looked at more seriously. Will raised the issue > for tubes, but it applies to all the other components as well, > regarding reliability, uniformity and stability of characteristics. > The idea of building such large systems was considered daunting or > simply implausible even in the 1940's, after decades of development of components - even regarding something as seemingly simple as resistors. I think at one time you could get resistors with a 50% range of tolarance when they first came out, say around the 1900's. > Or, for example, solid-state diodes: the discovery may have been made > in 1874, but in the early 1900s the only thing actually available > (TMK) was the cat's whisker (a tad finicky) - forget about building > anything utilising more than a couple of them. And you piss off the cat making your diode. > Then there's achieving a stable power supply. Well you would have your own power plant -- coal, gas ( as in gas lamps) or hydro-electric. > ..so, depends on where you want to draw the line between concept and practice. > > The principles/theory of digital systems implementation may be > straighforward, the practical reality when dealing with > unreliable/variable components isn't so (including tubes); in > particular if you don't have some heavily-non-linear device to base > your basic gate design around. In 1900 there was very little in the > electrical domain that was reliable or consistent for the purposes being discussed. >

18 years, 2 months

My DEC Collection and wish list

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Its a while since my last update so here's my current collection. RAINBOW Rainbow Fully working on CP/M and DOS but the VR201 has the mould spot problem. Doin' a bit of work here. The tube has a glass faceplate held on by a thick (1/8") layer of silicone clear adhesive. That's where the spots are. Anybody know of a solvent for this stuff? PDP8 DECMate III - Boots but I have no software for it. PDP-11 11/94 x 2 but CPU boards missing and too expensive to buy. I have a vague idea about DEC emulator running on a PC board with a PCI to QBUS bridge. (ie Fake it!!) PRO350 Runs POS ok PRO380 This weekends project. VAX VAX Station 3100 - Runs DEC windows but I need to reset the system password 4000 M200 Running VMS 7.3 but Ethernet I/F not working 4000 M300 Was Running VMS 7.3 but will not fully boot (A VMS reload I think!) 4000 M500 Top Door ,CPU board, Drives and Console section front panel missing. VT's VT240 VT320 VT330 VT420 A ton of DEC Documentation. Rod Smallwood The DecCollector.

18 years, 2 months

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test-drb