test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I know that some of you here have an interest in vintage video games. How many of you would be interested in getting together a pool to make new Atari 2600 and Vectrex cartridge cases? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

17 years, 10 months

Thanks! REXT Diagnostic ROM and POSTcard

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Andrew Lynch wrote: > Long story short, I replaced a 74LS245 and a faulty DRAM chip and now the > board boots fine. The DRAM I could probably figure out myself, but how did you determine the 74LS245 was at fault? (I, too, have a 5150 that won't boot) -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> ) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ -----REPLY----- Hi, The old fashioned way; I used an oscilloscope to compare the inputs and outputs of the bus transceiver. One of the buffers was dead and all of the outputs on one side looked "funny" so I desoldered it and replaced it with a new one. Of course, the IBM PC/XT motherboards have few sockets so desoldering and replacing the chip was awful. I tried to nicely desolder it but ended up destroying the chip and cutting it out. One thing I really like about VG, NorthStar, Kaypro, and Heath is almost their entire motherboards are socketed. Yes, I know direct soldered chips are technically more reliable but they are a PITA to replace when they do fail. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

17 years, 10 months

Old style DEC 5-1/4" "pop panel" needed (will trade for 10 1/2")

by bob＠jfcl.com

I need a DEC, old style, "pop panel" blank rack panel that's 5 1/4" high. I'd be happy to trade for a 10 1/2" pop panel if that helps anybody (heck, I'll trade for two - I've got several of the 10 1/2 panels). Thanks, Bob Armstrong

17 years, 10 months

Synertek KTM-3/80 -- 2 questions

by peter.lofstedt＠bahnhof.se

Hello I have an KTM-3 with power module, thermo printer and floppy drive. How can I come in touch with people that are interested in this classic hardware? Kind Regards Peter Lofstedt Home +46 243 60655 Cell +46 70 6368475 Peter.lofstedt at ericsson.com

17 years, 10 months

Thanks! RE:XT Diagnostic ROM and POSTcard

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi All, I just wanted to say "Thank you" to everyone who helped me fix this classic IBM XT motherboard with the Diagnostic ROM image and the settings for the AWARD POSTcard. Long story short, I replaced a 74LS245 and a faulty DRAM chip and now the board boots fine. Of course half the fun is finding what actually works, what doesn't, what appears to be broken but actually works, what is broken but appears to be working, etc. You know the drill, I am sure. Fixing an old broken 16 bit VGA card which works in an 8 bit ISA slot helped a lot. As did the old style PC/XT style floppy drive controller... So anyway, it's fixed and I booted MS-DOS 5.0 and the Advanced IBM Diagnostics from a 5.25" floppy disk drive. So I think we are there. THANKS! Andrew Lynch PS, BTW the XT Diagnostic ROM image seems to work best when burned into a 2764 EPROM. I tried various other types of EPROM but the 2764 seems to work best. I think IBM did some weird remapping of their custom Mask BIOS ROM...

17 years, 10 months

DEC Brochures - already scanned?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Wow, that must have been a brutal scanning job. Paper cutter and a sheet feeder. Biggest challenge was dealing with thin paper. I've switched to a different brand of scanner that can handle it better now to deal with the data books.

17 years, 10 months

DEC Brochures - already scanned?

by silent700＠gmail.com

Last night I picked up some DEC equipment, and with it came two brochures and a book. The book I will probably list on ebay eventually, but the brochures I would like to scan and contribute to Bitsavers and/or anyone who collects such things and is willing to host the .pdf files. But before going to the trouble of scanning them, can anyone tell me if it has already been done? One is for the VT52/DECScope, and the other is for the 11/70, both with many lovely photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiclassiccomp/2537619814 http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiclassiccomp/2536801495/in/photostream/ The book is the "dos/batch handbook" and appears to be from 1974. It is truly massive, like city phone book-sized. I've never seen a DEC manual this large. I won't be scanning this one ;) -- j

17 years, 10 months

buying an oscilloscope

by gerhard.kreuzer＠liftoff.at

Hi first of all, I have one, you can get it, please let me know. Its a 100MHz, two channel scope with second timebase for magnifications, but?its analog not digital. For slow signals usually present in classical hardware, thats no problem. And you also could look at www.testequipmentcollection.com[1] I bought my 'new' one there. (350Mhz, Hybrid scope, 2 channels + 16 digital logic analyzer). I also collecting classic computers, take a look at www.tuko.at[2] --> Computermuseum. With best regards Gerhard Links: ------ [1] http://www.testequipmentcollection.com [2] http://www.tuko.at

17 years, 10 months

DEC Brochures - already scanned?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/dos-batch/DosBatchHandbook_v9_Apr74

17 years, 10 months

"Vintage Systems" Engineer job at Vulcan

by RichA＠vulcan.com

Jim Battle <frustum at pacbell.net> wrote on Wed Apr 30 10:42:01 CDT 2008: > Sellam Ismail wrote: >> Well, here it is, an invitation to apply to your dream job :) >> >> Server Engineer (Vintage Systems) > Who are these people, and what are they doing? Their website explains it all succinctly: Well, in point of fact, there is a website that explains what we are doing in a great deal of detail. Maybe it's not as much fun to know that. http://www.pdpplanet.org/ I signed up for the cctalk mailing list on 29 April, in order to post the job offering among a community that might actually match up with the job requirements. The "Welcome" message was not sent back for 30 days. In any case, those interested in working on a large, and growing, collection of vintage systems should go take a look at the Vulcan jobs website: http://jobs.vulcan.com/default.cfm?szCategory=JobProfile&szOrderID=1541& szJobCategory=15 We're still interviewing. Thanks, Rich Rich Alderson RichA at vulcan.com Server Engineer, PDPplanet Project (206) 342-2239 Vulcan, Inc., 505 5th Avenue S, Seattle, WA 98104 (206) 465-2916 cell

17 years, 10 months

Electronics Today International (ETI) "System 68" firmware

by Nick.Jarmany＠quixant.co.uk

Does anyone out there remember the "System 68" project that ran as a series in the UK magazine Electronics Today International (ETI) during 1977? I built this when I was young, but unfortunately all my early hobby stuff got slung out when my parents moved house. I have managed to re-create most of my "lost" issues of the magazine, including the ones covering System 68, which was a simple M6800 based system with a memory mapped VDU. Now, here's the question - does anyone out there remember this project and, if so, would anyone happen to have a listing of the monitor firmware? I believe the firmware for this system was derived from the Motorola MIKBUG monitor, modified to suit the different hardware. I want to re-building this system, but so far have been unable to locate the necessary firmware. Hoping that there is a someone out there that might be able to help out! Thanks Nick

17 years, 10 months

Available: Sharp ZQ-5200 Organizer

by alfred.galea＠onvol.net

Hello Dave, I think it's a long shot, but do you still have the Sharp zq 5200? More specifically, I am looking for the owner's/operations manual for it and have had no luck with surfing, not even on the Sharp Electronics site. Maybe you could point me towards a more fruitful source if it is no longer with you. Kindest regards from sunny Malta Alfred

17 years, 10 months

CDC / Honeywell system remains, Baltimore, MD

by tothwolf＠concentric.net

17 years, 10 months

Introduction

by lehmann＠ans-netz.de

Hi everybody, after I tried over months to subscribe to both lists I'm now finally subscribed to cctalk at least. I don't know if it's usual or not to write an introduction but I'll just do so by keeping more an eye on the computer system I own. If you don't care just skip this mail ;) As my From header states my name is Oliver, I live in germany and right now I'm 27 years old. That should be enough to my person - now let me tell you a bit more about the computer system I own ;) EAW P8000 This system was built between 1987 and the breakdown of the former GDR - the eastern part of germany - 1990. The system itself is split up into two "towers" connected together. The first tower called "P8000 Computer" contains a 8Bit system (Z80) and a 16Bit system (Z8001).The 2nd case - the "P8000 Winchester" - contains a Winchester Disc Controller which runs with a Z80 CPU and is connected to the 16Bit part of the "P8000 Computer". Up to three MFM drives (all with the same geometry while the geometry itself can be configured) can be connected to the WDC. The 8Bit part is built on a single board, has 64KB SRAM, 2 SIOs to connect up to 4 terminals to it, one PIO to connect a EPROM programmer, and one PIO to establish a connection to the 16Bit part. It has 2 5.25" floppy drives with an external connector to connect two further 5.25" or 8" floppy drives. The systemmonitor is loaded from two 2732 EPROMs. The system originally supported three operating systems while two survived the time being. I own UDOS which is a Z80-RIO clone and OS/M which is a CP/M clone. There also was an OS called IS/M which was an ISIS clone. The more interesting (at least for me) part is the 16Bit part. The 16Bit part is built on a single board too (6layer) while the DRAM are single board which can be hooked up onto the mainboard. The system runs a Z8001 with 3 MMUs and Z80-peripherial ICs (PIO, SIO...) It also has 2 SIOs for 4 terminal connections, and one PIO to connect the WDC. The system also has two furhter PIO chips to establish a connection to the 8Bit system. The system runs with up to 4MB of DRAM but it might run with more RAM with self-made RAM modules. There exists also a RTC for the system and an extension to connect an 80286CPU + 1MBRAM to the 16BIT port to run a x86 OS on it while stearing it from the OS running on the 16Bit system. The Operating-System running on the 16Bit part is WEGA - a ZiLOG ZEUS clone. To boot WEGA at first the 8Bit system has to be booted up with UDOS (the Z80-RIO clone) to load a communication software which handles the communication over the 8Bit-PIO. After this is done the system switches over to the 16Bit system and the system monitor there gets loaded. The WEGA-Kernel (most parts are still original ZEUS objects) itself has the corresponding part for the 8<->16Bit communication interface in it. This was done to get access to the floppy drives, the EPROM programmer and the 4 8Bit-terminal connections which are all connected to the Z80 on the 8Bit-system. To access for example a floppy, the WEGA-kernel has to send the request using the PIO connection to the 8Bit system which handles it and sends the results back to the WEGA-kernel on the 16 Bit system. Same goes with the WDC which is connected through another PIO directly to the 16Bit system - command codes are sent to the Z80 on the WDC which handles the codes and sends the results back to the 16Bit system. Not that fast but it works good. Pictures and so one are all collected on my homepage http://pofo.de/P8000/ while most (if not to say all) of original documents are written in german... So - what do I do with the system? I use it for learn more about hardware processes itself, assembler and to get a deeper UNIX knowledge which is easier to start with there then with todays UNIX systems. Las project was to get TCP/IP working and I successed by usingg K5JB to get FTP and ping to work via SLIP. Because the speed was damn slow (and not just because of the baud rate), I came to the conclusion that a better performance could be achieved by implementing TCP/IP in the kernelspace instead of having it run in the userspace. So my goal is now to get the kernel sources right now to make the neccessary changes to get TCP/IP running in the kernel. As you might think now this is not so easy as it sounds. The sources for some objects of the kernel survied over the time, but many are missing. I'm now sitting here since a month disassembling the original kernel object and writing the disassembled code back in C. I've started this by having lets say nearly-to-zero ASM knowldege and I'm making good progress. Only some objects are left. From time to time the C files are not compiling to exactly the same object which is in the kernel. Some times other temporary registers are used for operations and so on. I'm trying to get 100% the same object to be 100% sure I have the same code the object was built with. The compiler on that system should be the same but of course I can't guarantee for sure. So - I'll probably ask some ASM<->C questions on cctech when I'm subscribed successfully (or I'll write and read the answers in the archive) hoping that there are still people alive being able to help me ;) Until know I had to find out that none was able to help me when I asked my ASM-C questions so I had to help me always by my own (which costs sometimes a great deal of time.... *sigh*). So far - greetings, Oliver -- Oliver Lehmann http://www.pofo.de/ http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/

17 years, 10 months

Big Board I: micro cornucopia & user disk

by elazzerini＠interfree.it

Hi at all, i'm looking for all articles and software for the big board I. ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_Big_Board> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_Big_Board) There was a magazine called Micro Cornucopia ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Cornucopia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Cornucopia) Some issues are scannered here below: <http://www.aceware.iinet.net.au/acms/BooksByManufacturerList.asp?lngManufac turerId=980&strManufacturerDescription=Micro+Cornucopia> http://www.aceware.iinet.net.au/acms/BooksByManufacturerList.asp?lngManufact urerId=980&strManufacturerDescription=Micro+Cornucopia The issues i'm looking for are from the 1st to the 22th. There was also an DRI Archive of the Big Board user disk. I'm looking from the #1 to the #20. They contain sw utilities bios lists and all about this OLD SBC. I thanks to all would be help to rebuild all info around this board. Enrico - Pisa - Italy

17 years, 10 months

BYTE Magazines Available

by sbolton＠bfree.on.ca

Here at the Personal Computer Museum in Brantford, Ontario, Canada (www.pcmuseum.ca) we've managed to build up around 80 extra BYTE magazines that I have no use for. They are all duplicate and I don't want to recycle them if someone out there can make use of them. They are not SUPER old ones but a variety and I would be willing to take photos of the spines for anyone interested. The magazines are free.....you can arrange pickup if you are nearby....I *can* ship them, but of course, it would be fairly costly but I am willing. Let me know please!

17 years, 10 months

WOPR sells on eBay

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

Gene Buckle said: > The "original" WOPR used a Vic-20 as the display. This one doesn't > appear to have that. :) Actually, the display was a "flourescent matrix" driven by a custom controller in an Apple ][. Some information about this is available on Todd Fischer's IMSAI website: http://www.imsai.net/movies/wargames.htm Search for "flourescent" to find the relevant bits, though the whole page has interesting history about the technology used in the movie from one of the guys who worked it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

17 years, 10 months

last-minute TI-990 available

by drb＠msu.edu

Dear all, Quite a few of you were interested in the TI-990, so I'll post an update here. I have a taker for the system. I'll keep your emails around in case that falls through. For general interest, I picked up the system last night. The tall rack includes two CPUs, one older and one newer build, and a Fujitsu Eagle drive. The two removable pack drives are Century Data units. There are about 10 disk packs for these drives. The prints and service manual for them is included, as is a 990 overview manual. There's also the 911 terminal shown in the photo, as well as a wide carriage dot matrix printer which was not. There is a box of miscellaneous cables which may or not actually match anything. Unfortunately, the equipment was stored in an open barn for about two years, one of the Century drives was dropped several feet, the heads were not locked on any of the drives before moving them, the Century drives were moved with their packs installed, and the spare packs all have condensation on the insides of the "cake pan" lids. Otoh, the insides of the electronics are actually reasonably clean, and it should be possible to revive most of it. I suspect with some care it's probably possible to recondition the disk packs, clean the pack wells in the drives, etc. The heads were actually still in the retracted position on both of the Century drives, which is hopeful. I was actually contacted about this machine two years ago. The caller said his employer (apparently a Ford garage, I've since learned) was just taking it out of service, and was looking for information on who might be interested, what it might be worth, etc. I gave him a few pointers and asked that he let me know if he couldn't find a taker. I only wish he'd been willing to let me take it then. De

17 years, 10 months

last-minute TI-990 available

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Otoh, the insides of the electronics are actually reasonably clean, and > it should be possible to revive most of it. When you start working on them, let me know and I'll send a drive exerciser. I have lots of TI spares from a former FE. Most of the service docs have been scanned.

17 years, 10 months

Tek 7904 scope at McGill in Montreal

by joachim.thiemann＠gmail.com

Hello all, with all the talk of "classic" scopes: if anyone wants it and is in the neighborhood, a Tek 7904 scope was put out to pasture on our floor here at McGill, so I dragged it into my office. I can't keep it here for too long so if there's no interest, I'll put it out again. It's got one 7A19 Amp, a 7D11 Digital delay, and a 7B53N Dual Time Base; the fourth slot is empty (but covered). It appears to at least somewhat work: power, lights, traces, etc. It was last calibrated in 82 according to a sticker. Joe.

17 years, 10 months

Wanted: pair of P133 cpus for a SP5100-2

by tothwolf＠concentric.net

Looking for a matched stepping pair of P133s to rebuild an old project machine I never finished. I'll also need to find a couple of passive heatsinks and retaining clips for socket 5/7 as well. The heatsink and single cpu currently in it appear to be epoxy bonded. The system itself is a Dell PowerEdge SP5100-2 that currently has a single P100 cpu. It's an unusual server in the way it's constructed that has tons of EISA slots and uses a backplane type layout. I rescued it about 4-5 years ago from the scrapper and it came with a 4 EISA dual channel SCSI cards in it. I don't really have anything to budget for this thing (which is why it's been sitting under the desk unfinished for 4-5 years) but I'll gladly cover the postage or trade a MMJ adapter or cable if someone has some extra stuff laying around that I'm looking for. (Mylex/BusLogic/Bustek SCSI cards or programming docs would also be extremely helpful.) The system uses a 430NX chipset which will support up to a P133 and 512MB of FPM memory (if memory serves). I'll eventually be looking for a set of 8ea 64MB 60ns 72 pin FPM Parity SIMMs (with tin plated contacts, not gold) for it as well. I've got some EISA OSS drivers I'd like to test/debug so it's about time to finally get the silly thing going. It's currently missing all 4 of the 3.5" hard drive mounting sleds/trays and I don't have any of the special rails to mount a cdrom drive or anything in the 3 empty 5.25" bays so if anyone might have a lead on these parts or even just know the part numbers for these things it would be most helpful. Failing that, I guess there's always lucite and velcro :) [I just realized I last looked into doing something with this system in 2004: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2004-June/043856.html It's definitely time to get it going...] -Toth

17 years, 10 months

Fuse PROM programming algorithms

by s.fontana＠waldys.gruppofabbri.com

Could anyone help me in finding the programming algorithms for MMI 6301-1J ? It seems impossible to find any document about this. Thank you very much S.Fontana Ufficio Tecnico Elettronico Gruppo Fabbri (Svizzera) SA Divisione macchine Waldys Via Ai Molini, 4 CH-6933 Muzzano (TI) SWITZERLAND Tel. +41 (0)91 960 1414 Tel. +41 (0)91 960 2772 < <mailto:s.fontana at waldys.gruppofabbri.com> mailto:s.fontana at waldys.gruppofabbri.com> < <http://www.gruppofabbri.com/> http://www.gruppofabbri.com/>

17 years, 10 months

Announcing formation of VCF steering committee: Call for Members

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

At the prodding of a small group of dedicated VCF fans and friends, I've decided to form a VCF "Steering Committee" to henceforth assist in producing all VCF events, in particular the main west coast event. Here are the roles that are currently open: Speaker Booker/Manager (filled: Jack Rubin) Handles the overall coordination of the speakers; researches and identifies potentional speakers for regional events; interfaces with the speakers to ascertain their equipment needs; plans the speaker schedule. Exhibitor Booker/Manager Handles the coordination of the exhibitors; designs the exhibit area layout; answers exhibitor inquiries; interfaces with the exhibitors to ascertain their space and power requirements. Additional roles (local to event): Designs the power distribution system in the physical exhibit layout; helps exhibitors setup ensuring each exhibitor has the required space and services; remains in the exhibit area during most of the event to cater to any exhibitor needs as well as to help watch over the exhibits. The additional roles can and most likely will be separated out to a sub-manager local to the event locale who will coordinate and report to the Exhibitor Booker/Manager. Vendor Booker/Manager (filled: Jack Rubin) Handles the coordination of the vendors and designs the marketplace space; interfaces with the vendors to ascertain their equipment requirements (i.e. table rentals); answers vendor questions; designs the marketplace space layout. Additional roles (local to event): Assists vendor setup (shows vendors to their space and ensures they have requested equipment and services); remains available to the vendors during most of the event to cater to any needs; collects any fees due. As with the Exhibit Booker/Manager, the additional roles can and most likely will be separated out to a sub-manager local to the event. Workshop Booker/Manager Researches and contracts designers of vintage computer projects to help create Build-It-Yourself workshops suitable for the VCF; assists with workshop attendee bookings, including answering questions and coordinating with the workshop designer/instructor. Marketing Director Liason to media; creates and disseminates press releases; creates and posts advertising for events; general public relations. This is an obviously important role. Art/Design/Theme Director I used to be creative, but these days I'm subject to sudden bursts of random brilliance punctuated by aeons of arid and infertile thought processes. Too many distractions, I reckon. Anyway, I need someone to design the look and feel of any given VCF event, including logos, t-shirt designs, slogans, event programs and signage, promotional brochures, etc. Someone good with an illustration application and some spare time. Sponsorship Shark This role entails securing sponsorship in the form of money from companies for name placement, or collateral materials (books, posters, etc.) to give away at VCF events. Special Events - Nerd Trivia Challenge Researcher/Manager Special Events - RetroCode Challenge Manager I like to have fun side events at the VCF. It's hard to fit them in, what with all the other chores to handle. This role will be assigned on an event by event basis to design and implement special side attractions at specific VCF events. Web Maestro Every organization needs one: so too, the VCF. This is mostly managing the superficial VCF website elements through the custom management system (I still handle all the coding and development), i.e. creating new events; editing user submissions; creating photo galleries of past events; managing mailing lists; etc. Special Projects Liason This role is special. It requires a strategist, thinker and doer, all combined into one. It is someone who will help me promote and pursue special VCF projects. I have all sorts of crazy ideas for neat things to do surrounding the VCF but a seemingly diminishing amount of time with which to pursue them. I need a creative person with lots of energy to put these various projects into motion, which could range from building fun retro things (Commodore 64 Supercomputer for example), to designing new VCF events and experiences, to coordinating development of standards, practices and services that benefit the vintage computing community (FutureKeep, Binary Athenaeum, a Prize for Excellence in the Pursuit of Vintage Computing, etc.) You know who you are. Contact me. Jack Rubin is also going to fill the role of supervisor of each sub-manager, and I will of course be the VCF Overlord and general ass-kicker. The role will mostly be for glory and possible profit-sharing if certain minimum revenue thresholds are met on any given event. I've been experimenting with "franchising" the VCF over the past several years, with regional events being handed off to autonomous individuals or organizations, such as Hans Franke (VCF Europa) and Mid-Atlantic Retro-Computing Hobbyists (VCF East). The regional coordinators are responsible for financing their local events, while I still ultimately am responsible for financing of the main VCF event in the Silicon Valley. Even though this is a primarily voluntary role, I need people who will be dedicated and, when it comes to crunch time (i.e. 6-8 weeks prior to any given event), will be able to reserve anywhere from 4-6 hours per week on their assigned role. In other words, a serious disposition is mandatory. Please e-mail me directly if you would like to apply for a particular role. The VCF has a solid foundation of a decade of events all around the (Western) world. With the participation of a dedicated team of like-minded nerds, the next ten years will prove to be more wide-ranging and more exciting than the first. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

17 years, 10 months

last-minute TI-990 available

by aek＠bitsavers.org

If you save any of the hardware, try to save the top cpu chassis. It looks pretty late model.

17 years, 10 months

CompuGraphic Flyer

by marvin＠west.net

Someone about a year ago was talking about a relative working for CompuGraphic and was looking for information. In cleaning up today, I found the flyer again that I said I would send, but forgot who it was (Rich Cini???) Whoever it was, let me know and give me your mailing address and I'll put it in the mail.

17 years, 10 months

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