>Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:22:52 -0700 (PDT)
>From: steven stengel <tosteve at yahoo.com>
>Subject: WANTED: AIM-65 PASCAL and/or PL/65 ROMs
>Please let me know if anyone can send me the AIM-65 PASCAL and/or PL/65 ROMs.
>Either originals or copies.
>Thanks-
>Steve.
--------------------------
Didn't know there's a PASCAL, but PL/65, FORTH etc. docs and binaries at:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/systems.htm
m
I'm looking for a specific rom for an IBM 5150 machine: rom 5700051 at
location U33.
This rom was only used on the very earliest (16-64k MB) 5150 machines.
I know Rich Cini has a disassembly of it on his site:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/files/PCBios.ASM
but does anyone have the original binary image?
It can easily be dumped from a working 5150 using a dos boot diskette
and the instructions at
http://mess.toseciso.org/dumping:dump_bios_using_debug/
The actual chip is an MK36xxx rom, which requires a pulse train on /CE
in order to read properly. Some eprom programmers will not read these
correctly at all, the first byte will fill the entire rom image because
the address is never re-latched. (MK36xxx roms will not read properly
without a pulse train of HIGH LOW <read data bus then set next address>
HIGH LOW <read data bus then set next address>, etc. IBM loved to use
these, for some reason, and only switched to real
2364/23256/2764/27256/etc on the ps/2 machines and the later ATs, and on
certain expansion cards such as the Xebec hdd controller on the XT,which
uses a 2764 for the z80 rom.)
The chip can be read in an incompatible eprom programmer by sticking the
chip in some solderless breadboard and wiring it to the rom socket in
the following way:
programmer A0 through an inverter(7404 will work fine) and connecting to
rom /CE
programmer A1 to rom A0
programmer A2 to rom A1
etc.
Data lines connect directly. read the rom as a 27128, then toss the
first(0x00), third(0x02), and every odd(0x0x where x is even) byte
thereafter, and keep the rest.
other than the /CE change, the mk36xxx is pinout compatible to a 2364,
which has a different pinout than a 2764 or 27128 does:
+--------------+
A7 |1 +--+ 24| Vcc
A6 |2 23| A8
A5 |3 22| A9
A4 |4 21| A12
A3 |5 20| /CE
A2 |6 2364 19| A10
A1 |7 18| A11
A0 |8 17| D7
D0 |9 16| D6
D1 |10 15| D5
D2 |11 14| D4
Vss |12 13| D3
+--------------+
P.S. does anyone have an IBM 5100 or other machine in the pre-PC 51xx
series? I'm looking for info from those, too.
Thanks!
--
Jonathan Gevaryahu
jgevaryahu(@t)hotmail(d0t)com
jzg22(@t)drexel(d0t)edu
I'm bussy restoring a Ti SR-52 and having some trouble with the card reader
electronics.
I't's reading prerecorded cards fine, but is not writing data on the cards .
And it does not transport the card fully through the card reader, I have to
pull the card the last few millimeters before it gets free from the
capstand.
So I'm searching for a schematic diagram or service manual.
-Rik
Ian King said:
> I'm reconditioning some H7100A power supply units in a VAX-11/785, and
> I've come across something I haven't seen before. I'm hoping one of you
> has. :)
>
> This particular PSU was labeled 'Memory Power Supply' and has additional
> regulator boards for a 15v rail. Slipped between those boards were two
> sheets of what looked like heavy-duty paper. However, one had
> delaminated, demonstrating that it is a sheet of thin copper sandwiched
> between two paper-like layers. That suggests to me that this was
intended
> more for EMI shielding than electrical isolation. I did not see
these sheets in
> another PSU that also had a supplemental regulator.
>
> Does this sound familiar to anyone? TIA - Ian
In my VAX 11/750[1], each of two power supplies
(2.5v and 5v) also contain this 'heavy' paper
separator between adjacent boards. I've noticed
that this paper is pretty thick, not quite what
you'd call cardstock, but getting close. In my
case, I haven't noticed any de-laminating, so can't
confirm the copper foil inside, however, I have
commented to myself a time or two that each sheet
just 'feels' heavy. If there really is foil inside,
I don't know how much EMI suppression it would do,
since there is no connection of ground or other way
to bleed of any incident energy. Rather, I'd guess
they probably make pretty good reflectors of EMI,
instead. But what do I know, I'm hardly a hardware
guy.
- Jared
[1] Was brainless when picked up almost a year ago,
but I've since gathered a set of all of the CPU boards,
memory and other necessaries. Just picked up a DEUNA,
but still need the cab-kit for it. Fixed the faulty 5V
power supply, but now the 2.5V PS is goofy; presently
working on that. At this rate, I'm now hoping to fire
the whole system up for the first time, sometime before,
oh, I don't know, maybe before Christmas?! :)
Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
> > Did all the tubes disappear or something? LOTS AND
> LOTS of tubes were
>
> They're still being made, mostly in the former USSR.
> After Mullard
> stopped producing valves in the 1980s, a company in the
> USSR bought the
> whole lot up and shipped it across. If you buy a Sovtek
> ECC83 or EL34,
> it's exactly like an old Mullard one.
Here's the list of modern manufacturers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube#Modern_manufacturers
gerhard.kreuzer at liftoff.at wrote:
> I think about a FPGA-version of ENIAC, so ist relativly
> easy to get the hands on a replica.
>
> Is there goood documentation available? Is the ENIAC on
> a chip project online, that meens, all the docs?
The project is generally described here:
http://www.ese.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html
But the best technical description of it by far that I've found is in the book, "The First Computers--History and Architectures," MIT Press, eds. R. Rojas, 2000. The relevant pages are online with Google Books here, starting on p121 of the book:
http://books.google.com/books?id=nDWPW9uwZPAC&dq=The+First+Computers--Histo…
The 207 page ENIAC patent is here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4960983/ENIAC-Patent-US3120606
As previously mentioned, I have a Sun SparcStation 5 that I rescued from
my uncle. I have gone through it and here are the details:
SparcStation 5
32 Meg memory
2G disk
Solaris 2.6 installed
Sun 5C keyboard
Sun Compact 1 (ball, not optical, three-button) mouse
15" Color Monitor (Model 447L)
I booted it, ran OPB diagnostics, installed Solaris 2.6 and everything
seems to work fine.
Located in the Seattle, WA area.
Price: Make offer
alan
On 2 Sep, 2008, at 20:22, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:11:25 +0100
> From: Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net>
> Dave McGuire wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:47 AM, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
>>>> Us amp builders
>>>> love them for their second-harmonicy crunch...
>>>>
>>> Still with out the guitar amp people, I don't think any kind of
>>> valves
>>> would be around for people like myself to play music through.
>>
>> Did all the tubes disappear or something? LOTS AND LOTS of tubes
>> were
>
> They're still being made, mostly in the former USSR. After Mullard
> stopped producing valves in the 1980s, a company in the USSR bought
> the
> whole lot up and shipped it across. If you buy a Sovtek ECC83 or
> EL34,
> it's exactly like an old Mullard one.
I think they stopped production earlier than that, though they were
probably selling their stock for some time after. Next to the Marconi-
Elliott works at Rochester airport was (IIRC) a Mullard thermionic
valve factory. Not to be confused with the Fisher fluid valve factory
at the other side of the Elliott works. Around 1975/6 there was a
period when due to car problems I used to wait near the Mullard works
for my regular lift home and every night there was another batch of
valve testing benches standing outside waiting to be collected. It
went on for months, probably carried on after I got my car sorted out.
Dear All,
I am restoring a Data Dock 7000 that was languishing neglected in a dusty
corner and I wondered if anyone has any information regarding these "wee
beasties".
Regards,
Rupert.
> > A multi-stage direct coupled vacuum tube circuit.? Fun.
> Yes, be prepared for some fun, in both senses of the word: it is fun to play
> around with, but the implemention of tube logic can be problematic or
> unreliable, at least in the way the ABC tried to implement both NAND and NOR
> gates with resistive input circuitry.
>
> Atanasoff makes it sounds easy in his paper, but if one reads it closely
> it's not quite so, at least as measured by modern standards where one comes
> up with a gate design and then simply repeats it ad infinitum.
After reviewing the ASM circuit on your web page, it became readily apparent to me that it would likely be a major challenge to fill in the blanks for those missing resistor values and end up with something that actually worked reliably.
> The ABC reconstruction and the original required (at least some) hand-picked
> resistors in the gate circuits.
I bought the excellent book ?The First Computers ? History and Architectures? mainly because of its content on Konrad Zuse?s relay-based machines. However, in its included paper on the reproduction of the ABC, the authors state:
?In building add-subtract modules, we found the circuits very demanding of precise resistor values. We have evidence that Berry hand-selected resistors from bins until he found ones that worked, and we attempted the same tactic. In measuring the characteristics of 10% resistors, we discovered the distribution about the nominal value shown in Fig. 3. (It?s a graph of a bell curve between -10% and 10% with a big notch in the center of the curve). Apparently, the manufacturer had already segregated the resistors close to nominal value. Hence, we found it necessary to use 1% tolerance resistors.?
So, here?s a 14 gate, multistage, direct coupled vacuum tube circuit that apparently requires various hand-selected values of 1% resistors to work properly. Whew!!! I think I?m going to start with something a great deal simpler, like a single flip flop or astable multivibrator using an inexpensive 9-pin miniature dual triode at low voltages to see if I can even get that to work.
> Some of the issues:
>
> 1. Tubes can be insufficiently non-linear. Driving between saturation and cutoff
>? can take a bit of swing and saturation is soft (curved).
>
> 2. Plate circuit impedance is high. If the difference between the plate circuit
> impedance (lower better) and the grid circuit impedance (higher better) is
> ? ? insufficient, then different fan-outs in the logic circuit (loading), and
> ? ? varying tube/component characteristics, can pull the logic levels away from
> ? ? the design targets and upset everything.
>
> Going to the low plate voltage is a nice idea from a practical view but I
> wonder if it may compound issues of point 2 above. It will reduce the voltage
> shift between the plate and grid circuits that needs to be accomplished, but it
> may also reduce the voltage swing between the 0/1 logic levels. How it works
> out in the balance will be interesting.
Thanks for that info and it will be interesting indeed to see if this will work. I was surprised to find nothing on low voltage tube logic when there?s so much on the web about low-voltage tube audio circuits of all kinds. True, tube logic is a fairly esoteric subject with no usefulness beyond that of a novelty, but with all of the audio low voltage stuff, I?d expected some tube enthusiast somewhere to have already done something on the logic side just for the heck of it.
> Straying completely away from technical issues, and I'm somewhat loath to
> mention this, but the animosity engendered by the early-70s court battle
> continues decades later. The somewhat nasty inter-personal battle
> found it's way into the Amazon book reviews as recently as 2004.
> Another bizarre twist in the ENIAC patent saga on the legal/social side.
Yes, I saw that when I went to look at the Amazon entry for Burks' "The First Electronic Computer." Wow, it?s a long-time, knock-down feud for certain.
Bill
Vertical Reader (1.11, the file is VR100.zip) can be downloaded from the HPLX S.U.P.E.R. ftp site at http://super.hplx.net/anonftp/pub/. For my personal taste, I found the lines in VR too short, so I wrote a "Horizontal Reader". It's not as polished as VR, but I can send the program and Turbo C source code to anyone who would like it.
There is still a moderately active mailing list for the HP 200LX. The link for information is http://eberl.com/HPLX. The old HPLX information center at http://super.hplx.net/ is still up, but most of its links are broken.
If you need to get a 200LX fixed, go to http://www.palmtoppaper.com/store/asp/prodtype.asp?prodtype=27 (in the US; there are others in Europe who do HPLX repairs).
Bob
> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:04:13 +0200
> From: Pontus <pontus at update.uu.se>
> Subject: Re: More stuff to go...
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>
>> Three SGI Indigo 2's. These I will not ship, as they're too big/heavy
>> to easily ship. One is an Impact (purple), one an Impact 10000
>> (purple) and one EXtreme (teal). $10 each
>>
> Oh man! Indigos for 10 bucks! I wished I lived closer :) (I'm in
> sweden). I guess you should post in the nekochan forums if you don't get
> rid of the machines. I could do it for you if you like.
>
> Regards,
> Pontus.
>
As we say around here, "where there's a will, there's a way"...
If you really want one of these SGI boxes, I recommend that
you contact the seller (he is not me), and ask him if he is willing
to drop off the computer at a nearby UPS Store.
This chain is in the business of packaging items for shipping.
They are not cheap, but it might solve your problem. However,
UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. are primarily in the business of shipping
items that can be lifted by a single person. If the computer weighs
more than about 100 lbs, then you would need to contact a freight
expediting service or a moving company and make arrangements
for palletizing, consolidation and surface transport.
Good luck.
--Tim
I'm reconditioning some H7100A power supply units in a VAX-11/785, and I've come across something I haven't seen before. I'm hoping one of you has. :)
This particular PSU was labeled 'Memory Power Supply' and has additional regulator boards for a 15v rail. Slipped between those boards were two sheets of what looked like heavy-duty paper. However, one had delaminated, demonstrating that it is a sheet of thin copper sandwiched between two paper-like layers. That suggests to me that this was intended more for EMI shielding than electrical isolation. I did not see these sheets in another PSU that also had a supplemental regulator.
Does this sound familiar to anyone? TIA - Ian
UNIX is user friendly. It's just selective about who its friends are.
Ian S. King, Vintage Systems Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
http://www.pdpplanet.org
Check out this old Zebra video from the 1980s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y4TQehFNnQ
The on-topicness starts at about the 0:30 mark.
Those are some killer looking terminals (can anyone identify them?), but
the one that the one dude is using is, I'm pretty sure, an Epson QX-10.
This is from the 1983-84 timeframe.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
-----Original Message-----
>From: Roy J. Tellason rtellason at verizon.net
>Sent 8/31/2008 10:33:32 PM
>To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts cctalk at classiccmp.org
>Subject: Re: MY REPLY - Re: HandyMan for Kaypro
>
>On Sunday 31 August 2008 18:23, FJGJR1 at aol.com wrote:
> Tony,
>
> You want to check with "Sharkonwheels" who posts on
> _www.vintage-computer.com_ (http://www.vintage-computer.com) . He is very
> knowledgeable on Kaypros "after" 1983.
>
>
> He uses and has info on Advent products.
>
>
> I am more involved with the 1982 / 1983 versions and post under GADFRAN.
>
> My website _www.kayprosts.org_ (http://www.kayprosts.org) may give you
> some other productive contacts to explore.
>
> He may also know of HandyMan.
>
> You may want to check just what version of K4 you have. Main large chips
> on main board will help - e.g. U43 and U47, etc.
>
> He will be asking you about them and other aspects.
>
> He is very familiar with the K10's.
>
>I'm not sure of the dates on the stuff I have...
>
>And perhaps you could say anything pertinent about this eprom I seem to have
>sitting on my desk here? Label says "Multi TurboRAM v4.4" with copyright
>dates of 1985, 1988, and "Digtial Arts" on it. I *think* that's for a
>Kaypro, but am not 100% sure of that.
>
>If it's of interest, I have some pretty complete service data on Kaypro 8-bit
>stuff, including the schematics of multiple versions of the power supplies
>used in them, though I'm not sure it was necessarily all of them. I
>remember California DC (?), Astec, and I'm not recalling the others
>offhand, but they're around someplace. _This_ stuff I don't want to sell,
>but I might be persuaded to make some photocopies. :-)
>
>
Thanks for the offer. For the most part, I think MOST necessary parts of the Kaypro service manuals
are out there - 1484-d, -e, and -f versions. Can;t hurt to check against what you have, though.
On the EPROM, never heard of THAT one, but I can hunt around in my Pro-Files magazines and see
if any ads pop-up, and any info. I HAVE found ads for the HandyMan, but that's about all!
If you have the ability, dump the EPROM, and I can take a peek.
Is it a 24-pin, or 28-pin EPROM?
Tony
> Hmmm....wasn't UnixWare on CD? We had fun with them, and called it Novix. I think they they used
> the name Univel at some point, didn't they? After first acquiring USL?
I've got Univel UnixWare 1.0 floppies with somewhere in my collection.
Unfortunately they were not readable since they had been stored badly
before I got them. (They were covered with mildew and what looked
like spilled soda.) So no floppy images, unfortunately. :(
I think we've got a 1999 era UnixWare 7 CD that we got from SCO
somewhere around here. That was back before Caldera became the SCO's
evil twin and tried to blackmail the world...
Eric
steven.alan.canning at verizon.net:
> If I had meant audiophiles I would have stated such. The "tweaks"
> are the ones that can hear the nuances in an amplifier that cannot
> be quantified because they don't exist. They describe an amplifier
> as if it were a bottle of wine... Somehow they are never willing to
> submit to a double-blind test to check their palette.
Although this is way off-topic, I think that a lot of the "tube sound" claims may have to do with audio distortion. Here are some audio tests of a type of tube amp I built:
http://www.ibiblio.org/tkan/audio/millett.html
I saw these tests before building the amp. And since I have a significant hearing loss in both ears, I built the amp just to play with tubes, not for any audiophile reasons. If the people who can actually hear any difference claim to like tube amps over solid-state even if that difference is actually due to audio distortion, more power to them.
On the topic of imagining audio differences that aren't actually there, I read the article referenced here way back in 1983. I was not surprised by the results:
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#reviewdares
Hi,
I think about a FPGA-version of ENIAC, so ist relativly easy to get
the hands on a replica.
Is there goood documentation available? Is the ENIAC on a chip
project online, that meens, all the docs?
Maybe sombody is interested too
With best regards
Gerhard
I've got a few more things to get rid of this week... I can probably
ship this stuff as it's relatively small, but pickup is preferred (and
will probably result in a discount :).
Sun Sparcstation 2 w/ 12MB ram, and a Matrox CG-12 (370-1370) 3D
graphics adapter. $20 for the machine + board or $15 for the graphics
board alone.
Box of Apple II software, including The Print Shop, companion, and two
graphics disks, Flight Simulator, and a few other things. $10 for it
all. Everything looks complete, but I haven't tried any of it out.
The boxes are included, but a bit smooshed from being stored in a pile
for a long time. $10
Dell DLT-1 tape drive, internal. This appeared to work, the one time I
tried it. Includes a cleaning tape, and a few DLT-4 tape media. $10
Network Associates "Full Duplex Fast Ethernet Pod", part # NGC-1507601.
It has 3 10/100 network jacks on the back (two are MII or RJ45, other
is RJ45 only), a serial port, "Sync In" and "Sync Out", and a DIN-8
power connector. Don't have the power supply, but it claims to use 12V
at 4.2A. Untested. $10
Three SGI Indigo 2's. These I will not ship, as they're too big/heavy
to easily ship. One is an Impact (purple), one an Impact 10000
(purple) and one EXtreme (teal). $10 each
I also have boxes upon boxes of (used and degaussed) DLT-4 media. I'd
like to get about $1/tape for that.
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
schwepes at moog.netaxs.com wrote:
> Why be surprised? The second group had a far higher state
> of the art.
>
> > From the excellent book, "The First Computers - History and
> > Architectures," an interesting comparison:
I'm not at all "surprised" which is why I used the word "interesting." The comparison given in the book is a great illustration of just how far the technology has come. And, actually, it has come even quite a bit further since the ENIAC-on-a-Chip project was completed in 1997.
My uncle, who develops compiler tools, insisted that, since I work for
Sun, I take his 10-plus-year-old Sun h/w and s/w that has been sitting
in his garage. Figuring that I might be able to find a better home for
it, I agreed.
I haven't gone through all of it yet. The most obvious thing in the
boxes is media and documentation for Sun Workshop 7.0, C++ compiler 4.2
and Java Workshop.
There is Solaris 2.5.1 and 2.6 media and documentation. I need to go
through that to compare with what I already have.
There is also a SparcStation 5, a 16" Sun monitor (the one with all of
the display control buttons along the bottom), kbd, mouse, etc.
However, I haven't had time to go through it and confirm that it works
(though it should), what is in it as far as memory, disk, etc., and that
it doesn't contain any of my uncle's business info. Once I do, I will
probably sell it (for whatever you can get for a SS5 these days).
If you have an interest in any of this stuff, let me know. I don't want
it to get thrown out, but I don't really want it in my garage either.
alan
Greg,
I've never used UnixWare, but if it is essentially SVR4.2 with some
additions and comes with a development system, I'm happy to give it a
try. Do you remember if it was on floppy or tape?
Thanks very much for offering.
Feel free to contact me off list to work out the details.
Cheers,
Tom
-------------- Greg said ---------------
Hi Tom,
I'll have to check this week, but I believe I have a set for UnixWare
1.1
>from Novell. If you are not familiar with it, it is basically System V
Version 4.2 with an IPX protocol added IIRC. Let me know if this will
work
for you.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: The Pitlog pitlog at gmail.com
>Sent 9/1/2008 9:05:37 AM
>To: cctech at classiccmp.org
>Subject: Wanted: System V Release 4 (Intel) OS
>
>Greg,
>
>I've never used UnixWare, but if it is essentially SVR4.2 with some
>additions and comes with a development system, I'm happy to give it a
>try. Do you remember if it was on floppy or tape?
>
>Thanks very much for offering.
>
>Feel free to contact me off list to work out the details.
>
>Cheers,
>Tom
>
>-------------- Greg said ---------------
>Hi Tom,
>
>I'll have to check this week, but I believe I have a set for UnixWare
>1.1
>from Novell. If you are not familiar with it, it is basically System V
>Version 4.2 with an IPX protocol added IIRC. Let me know if this will
>work
>for you.
>
>
Hmmm....wasn't UnixWare on CD? We had fun with them, and called it Novix. I think they they used
the name Univel at some point, didn't they? After first acquiring USL?
I THINK I have a UnixWare 1.1 CD, but don't think I have a boot disk any more, and I'm not entirely sure if
the CD itself is bootable, as this goes back to around 1995, doesn't it?
Tony