Andrew Lynch wrote:
> The intermediate disk signals could, *I believe* be imported into a PC
> parallel port with "clock out" (typically 500 KHz for MFM DSDD, 250KHz for
> FM, etc) being used for latch signal. I think they are also slow enough
to
> be practically captured by the PC parallel port. The PC could then sample
> the parallel port at high rate (interrupt driven? DMA?) to read the
signals
> and create a disk image from the data. Again, the i8272 would not process
> the signals so they would contain all the data the i8272 processes but
will
> not pass along such as header info, IDAM, CRC, true gap length, etc.
The Disk2FDI project has already done this; give it a look to see if it
applies to your situation.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org
<http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> )
http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
-----REPLY-----
Jim,
Thanks for the reply. I already have a Catweasel and programs to read hard
sector disks so I really don't need another disk imaging utility. My intent
was to offer to contribute if anyone were interested in the CCTALK community
to try again on a disk imaging project. The modifications required to my
Disk IO board *appear* to quite minor to get access to the raw disk signals
so it seemed like a good opportunity.
What I had in mind was a low cost, open project, open source, available
hardware and software information made of common parts for everyone. Sort
of in the spirit of the N8VEM project but with a different theme. However,
I realize how these projects have ended on CCTALK in the past and I can see
there is no interest now so I'll just let it pass. My hobby time is limited
and I have choose carefully what I work on like everyone else.
Thank goodness for the Catweasel!
Andrew Lynch
Hi, all,
I have my sbc6120 here and wanted to do a little OS/8 programming, but I
think I'm stumped for a particular bit of doco - according to the "OS/8
System Reference Manual" (DEC-8-OSRMA-A-D), the User Service Routine is
documented in the "OS/8 Software Support Manual" (DEC-8-OSSMA-A-D). I've
found many OS/8 docs on Highgate and Bitsavers (DEC-S8-OSSMB-A-D, the
1974 "OS/8 Handbook", memos, etc.), but not that exact one.
The reason why it matters is that if you want to do file I/O, directory
lookups, etc., you use the USR. For stuff that doesn't depend on OS/8
filesystem operations, there's plenty of info out there for FORTRAN,
BASIC, FOCAL, assembler, etc. Imagine trying to program in UNIX without
knowing how to setup and call stdio routines. That's kinda where I'm
at. I've found one or two narrow examples where some code fragments
call the USR for a particular function, but I really just need the
Software Support Manual.
Thanks for any leads,
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 9-Sep-2008 at 00:00 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.5 F (-62.5 C) Windchill -112.5 F (-80.3 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 7.1 kts Grid 104 Barometer 672.9 mb (10897 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.govhttp://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
> Also, Intersil had their own disk (floppy disk, that is) operating system
> for the Intercept I/II called IFDOS. I have a manual for IFDOS, but it
> doesn't describe the floppy disk hardware for the Intercept. Was it a clone
> of the RX01/RX8E? Have any copies of IFDOS media survived?
Charlie Lasner wrote it. I'm sure he must have a copy.
Hi,
Does anyone have a copy of the Intel Application Notes AP-116 and AP-121
they'd be willing to scan or place online?
They are mentioned in the i8272A datasheet but I cannot find them online
anywhere (I tried bitsavers.org/pdf first!)
I am building an FDC using an i8272 and would appreciate the additional
technical details.
Thanks!
Andrew Lynch
> I am guessing close to abandonware - but not quite. As I understand
> it, HP is still the copyright holder.
CHM is currently working with the HP archivist to try to get the Apollo
code released under similar terms as the HP1000. One of the hangups is
the UNIX licensing.
Al Kossow wrote:
> Charlie Lasner wrote it [Intersil IFDOS]. I'm sure he must have a copy.
You don't say.... Small world, eh? So is IFDOS in any way related to PS?8
?
Charles H Dickman wrote:
> He seems to have disappeared. I have not seen a posting from Mr. Lasner
>on pdp8-lovers in years.
I last spoke to CJL in 2006 when he contacted me about the SBC6120, so he
is still around. He just doesn't post as much as he used to.
Bob
I hate to include folks mid-discussion, but Mike is trying to get the
SuperPET functionality running, and it refers to a HOSTCM program
running on VM/CMS. Anyone have a copy, some insight, etc.?
Jim
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: SuperPET MMU
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:17:20 -0700
From: Mike Naberezny <mike at naberezny.com>
To: Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com>
References: <48C2236E.5060303 at naberezny.com>
<48C352FD.1040200 at jbrain.com> <48C3574B.8010805 at naberezny.com>
<48C59CCB.1000300 at jbrain.com>
Jim Brain wrote:
> Hmm, a mystery. Any chance you can sniff the UART traffic?
Yes, I can do that. I already made a sniffer for another project. I'm not
sure it will give much insight with the SuperPET alone. I'd probably need to
listen to something speaking HOSTCM with the SuperPET. However, observing the
bytes sent from the SuperPET when it initiates a transfer might give clues.
I did find something interesting in a VM/CMS (mainframe OS) reference manual
[1]. If you search for HOSTCM in that document, there is mention that a
"MANUAL" command outputs the HOSTCM specifications. It also says "The KERMIT
command also performs most of the functions of HOSTCM". It seems likely then
that HOSTCM is a built on the Kermit protocol.
This seems further confirmed by a message [2] from William Levak on
cbm-hackers a while back. Although all of his attempts to transfer files from
the SuperPET with "normal" file transfer protocols failed, he says Kermit did
more than the others.
This gives me a few good next steps. I'll play around with Kermit while
monitoring the RS-232 lines. From web searches, I found there are also some
mainframe guys that are running VM/CMS in emulators these days. I'll try to
make some contacts and see if someone has HOSTCM and can run that "MANUAL"
command on it.
Regards,
Mike
[1] http://ukcc.uky.edu/ukccinfo/391/cmsref.html
[2] http://www.softwolves.pp.se/misc/arkiv/cbm-hackers/1/1128.html
--
Mike Naberezny (mike at naberezny.com) http://6502.org
--
Jim Brain, Brain Innovations (X)
brain at jbrain.com
Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!
Home: http://www.jbrain.com
>
>Subject: Intersil Intercept Models...
> From: "Bob Armstrong" <bob at jfcl.com>
> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:39:24 -0700
> To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
> Intersil made several PDP-8 "work a likes" based on their 6100 chip, and
>I'm trying to figure out a few of the exact details. OK, I know this is
>really obscure, but I'm hoping somebody out there has used one or at least
>seen one :-)
>
> The Intercept Jr was the SYM or KIM like single board computer with a
>chiclet keypad and seven segment displays and powered by D cells. That
>one's easy to identify. However, after they bought out Intersil, Harris
>made a thing called the "Micro12" which was a little like the Intercept Jr
>but is clearly not the same. There are no D cells on the Micro12 for one
>thing, and more logic on board for another. I only have pictures of the
>Micro12, but no details. Does anybody know any more about this gizmo?
There was a 6100 sampler that was a minimal board with TTY interface.
I have one of those.
The Intercept-JR did have batteries, it was one of the features all cmos
and low power. Fun to play with and useful. The Micro12 was the same beast
>from memory.
If I could find details on the -JR I'd build one.
> And the "Intercept I/II Microcomputer Development Manual" (which I do
>have) has pictures and specifications for the Intercept I and II. The I is
>in a 3-1/2" chassis that holds four cards horizontally, and the II is a
>5-1/4" chassis that holds at least a dozen cards inserted vertically. As
>far as I can determine from the manual, the I and II are the same (they use
>all the same cards) except for the chassis, and neither one has any kind of
>front panel. The front panel is emulated with an ODT like debugger in the
>console firmware (a little like the LSI-11).
>
The Intercept1 was 6100 based and the InterceptII was 6120 basically the same
thing from the programmers view with minor differnce. The I used 6100/6102
(PDP-8 with EMA) and the 6120 was the version that integreated the MEDIC part
on one chip and also added PDP-8A stack instrucitons (they are really IOTs).
The OS was OS278 flavor or compatable at some level with Fortran, FOCAL, ODT
and PAL. they also had the PDP-8 tray of tapes kit for non disk or user
rolled software. The disk system was PDP-8 RX01/RX8E software compatable.
FYI: ODT is a PDP-8 creation that found it way to PDP-11 with some variation.
The DECmate (early plain and DM1) and the base Intercept systems have much
in common.
> BUT, I've also seen pictures of something that looks like an Intercept I
>(exact same chassis), but with a lights and switches front panel. Intersil
>and Harris both published application notes, #006, that described the "6100
>Operator Console" and the application note even contains a nice photograph
>of just such a machine. What model was this? Is it a unique model, was
>there a front panel option for an Intercept I? The Intercept manual says
>nothing about any kind of front panel.
There were flavors of the backplane for turnkey systems without the front
pannel (I think power and reset). The other flavor had the operators console
(front panel) that was supported with the needed rom and pannel ram. You
could also get the operators console for the bare backplane version.
> Also, Intersil had their own disk (floppy disk, that is) operating system
>for the Intercept I/II called IFDOS. I have a manual for IFDOS, but it
>doesn't describe the floppy disk hardware for the Intercept. Was it a clone
>of the RX01/RX8E? Have any copies of IFDOS media survived?
Yep RX8E based system media and software compatable though differnt internally.
The Sampler is very minimal but fun to expand, the Intercept-JR is on my wish
list and the Intercept-1 or II were scarce but wouldn't mind having one to go
with my PDP-8f, DMIII systems.
Allison
>
>Thanks!
>Bob Armstrong
>
Intersil made several PDP-8 "work a likes" based on their 6100 chip, and
I'm trying to figure out a few of the exact details. OK, I know this is
really obscure, but I'm hoping somebody out there has used one or at least
seen one :-)
The Intercept Jr was the SYM or KIM like single board computer with a
chiclet keypad and seven segment displays and powered by D cells. That
one's easy to identify. However, after they bought out Intersil, Harris
made a thing called the "Micro12" which was a little like the Intercept Jr
but is clearly not the same. There are no D cells on the Micro12 for one
thing, and more logic on board for another. I only have pictures of the
Micro12, but no details. Does anybody know any more about this gizmo?
And the "Intercept I/II Microcomputer Development Manual" (which I do
have) has pictures and specifications for the Intercept I and II. The I is
in a 3-1/2" chassis that holds four cards horizontally, and the II is a
5-1/4" chassis that holds at least a dozen cards inserted vertically. As
far as I can determine from the manual, the I and II are the same (they use
all the same cards) except for the chassis, and neither one has any kind of
front panel. The front panel is emulated with an ODT like debugger in the
console firmware (a little like the LSI-11).
BUT, I've also seen pictures of something that looks like an Intercept I
(exact same chassis), but with a lights and switches front panel. Intersil
and Harris both published application notes, #006, that described the "6100
Operator Console" and the application note even contains a nice photograph
of just such a machine. What model was this? Is it a unique model, was
there a front panel option for an Intercept I? The Intercept manual says
nothing about any kind of front panel.
Also, Intersil had their own disk (floppy disk, that is) operating system
for the Intercept I/II called IFDOS. I have a manual for IFDOS, but it
doesn't describe the floppy disk hardware for the Intercept. Was it a clone
of the RX01/RX8E? Have any copies of IFDOS media survived?
Thanks!
Bob Armstrong
> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 07:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Julian Skidmore <julianskidmore at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Mac SE Flyback!
>
>> > ..the Mac's good, but the flyback Transformer burnt out a while
>> You can have it, or just the flyback, for the cost of shipping from
>> Switzerland.
> but it's my best (and only) offer!
They (compact Mac flybacks) are hard to find these days. I was kind of
hoping your posting would cause someone to pop up and point, "That place
over there has hundreds of them" or to discover that there is an
alternative usable part number which is still available. The ringing
silence probably means that they are as rare as they seem to be now days.
Sigh.
Jeff Walther
> Yes. Indeed. I checked it again and it is the regular
> CRC circuit with unusual initial value and polynomial.
What are these values? They are not documented in the data sheet.
I spent 3 hours this morning attempting to figure out where to start
looking.
The problem shows up as a difference between files which are almost
certainly identical - except in one copy which I am confident is different
all of the time by the specified byte (caused at the time the copy was
made).
Rather than attempting to hide that this is current PC hardware, it is
probably best to list:
Hardware: Intel E8200 CPU (2.66 GHz), 2 * 2 GB memory in
ASUS P5B motherboard with 2 * Seagate 320 GB SATA II hard drives
Software: Windows XP with probably SP3
The problem shows up between 5% to 10% of the time with very
large files of greater than 1/2 GB to 2 GB in total size. The command:
COPY /B D:*.GHO G:*.GHx
was used to create 4 files each time with x = A,B,C,D,E
FC /B D:*.GHO G:*.GHx
is used to compare the files 4 at a time. It takes about 2 1/2 minutes to
compare the group of 4 files for a total of 5 GB being compared with
5 GB (which is why I said it must be current hardware). The result
often (between 5% and 10% of the time) shows a single difference
between the files at byte xxxxx35A (the xxxxx is random but the last
3 characters of the address are always the same) with the two hex
characters for each byte being different by 1 bit:
e.g. 22 vs 32 about 25% of the time with an extra bit 4
e.g. 94 vs 84 about 75% of the time with a missing bit 4
I probably performed between 75 and 150 FC commands
during which about 200 comparisons were made. I collected
about 15 cases when a difference was noted.
I can also perform an MD5 valuation of each file. So long
as the available memory is exceeded (relative to the size
of the previous files that were just tested), the MD5 valuation
takes about 40 seconds for a 2 GB file and the disk sense
light is on the whole time. If the same file is repeated for
the MD5 valuation, the disk sense light is always off and the
MD5 valuation takes about 9 seconds. The MD5 valuation
is probably incorrect between 5% and 10% of the time. Since
repeating the MD5 valuation on a different copy of the same file
provides a cross check, when what seems like an incorrect MD5
valuation appears, checking with a different copy will almost always
(19 times out of 20) show the correct MD5 valuation, then when
the MD5 valuation is redone on the same file, the probably
correct MD5 valuation appears, i.e. different from the just previous
MD5 valuation on the same file.
However, if the MD5 valuation is done again without flushing the
cached copy, then the same memory contents seem to be used
each subsequent time yielding the same (probably incorrect if
that was the situation) MD5 valuation from the last time that the
disk drive was actually read. My assumption is that as the (now
incorrect) byte was read into memory, one of the bytes of RAM
(possibly the same one each time) gets an extra bit set or misses
one of the bits being set - always that same bit 4 of course. Other
reasons may also have caused the byte in RAM to be incorrect.
However, once incorrect, it seems to stay the same until it is
modified again. So it does not seem to be a problem with
reading RAM.
So (FINALLY) this is my question:
If the cached copy (probably incorrect) of a hard drive file (which
is used to perform the MD5 valuation) stays
the same, what is the probability that it is a problem with RAM
memory as opposed to a hard drive or controller error? Since
the error suggests that it is a single bit causing the problem (the
same bit seems to be either on or off), my intuition would seem
to suggest that the RAM memory has a problem. However, since
my hardware experience is minimal, I am asking for suggestions
as to what can be done and the order they should be attempted:
(a) Replace the RAM memory
(b) Replace the disk drive(s)
(c) Replace the motherboard with the controller problem
(d) Something else I have not thought of
I know that Tony Duell would want to fix the component, but
I doubt that is even possible in this case.
Does anyone have any different suggestions?
Thank you for any help and please suggest any different tests
that might help to locate or better identify the cause of the problem.
Finally, just to make sure, does this problem constitute a serious
difficulty which should (must?) be fixed before any actual use is made
of this new system?
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
Have available the following Memorex telex terminals
(60) M/T 1476 A2/G2 with keyboard
(3) M/T 080 no keyboard
Thanks
George
Ics Computers
PH#404.396.8672
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
I have OSSMA as a poster indicated and can scan it next week after VCF.
The table of contents is very similar to OSSMB so its likely not that
different. It doesn't obviously say what version of OS/8 it is for.
Does anyone have a scan of the operating and service manuals for the
HP 1600A logic analyzer along with it's sidekick, the HP 1607A?
PDF is fine, but I would never turn down dead tree format. :-)
Thanks!
--barrym
[skip]
>> ECC. This is definitely not a CRC32. The algorithm
in
>> general looks like shift register for polynomial
>> multiplication with polynomial equal to
>> x32+x28+x26+x19+x17+x10+x6+x2+1 .
> It's a polynomial code not unlike a CRC. (Note that
a CRC
> works as an error-correcting code, but aren't as
good at
> burst error detection/correction as codes designed
for that
> purpose.) It could be a BCH code. Older disk
subsystems
> on "big iron" used Fire code, but I'm not aware of
that
> even having been used on small Winchester drives.
Yes. Indeed. I checked it again and it is the regular
CRC circuit with unusual initial value and polynomial.
Thank you.
Alexander.
Unfortunately, the disk manager cart is required. I did see one on ebay
though.
>In a message dated 9/9/2008 2:49:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
snhirsch at gmail.com writes:
>I have just added a TI expansion unit to my collection. It came with all
>the proper internal modules, but there's a possibility that the Disk
>Management plug-in cartridge (firmware) is missing. If the person I
>bought it from is unable to find it, is there any workaround to not
>having this?
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
> From: pete at dunnington.plus.com
---snip---> > Then it's not very precise, because there is a difference. "benzine" is > a generic term used in some countries for roughly what I'd call petrol > and you'd call gasoline. "benzene" is a specific chemical compound > which may or may not be found in benzine, but as it's a known carcinogen > it's now banned in many places.>
Hi
I know how to make benzene.
Take acetylene and pressurize it to 4 atmospheres and bang, you
have benzene. With a catalyst, it can be done more sanely.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5…
Free for the cost of shipping from US/Boston 01888
- ST3600N 500 GB Apple branded
- (2) Quantum Viking 2275W 2.2 G Wide SCSI drives
- SCA adapters w/ power and ID jumpers
(1) SCA F-68 pin F w/ term resistors
(1) SCA F-68 pin F w/o term
(1) SCA F-50 pin narrow and 68 wide F
- Plextor PX-43CE SCSI CD Sept 1995 Internal
Uses caddies which I am out of
- Dayna Apple Easynet 10 base-T adapter
- Dec HiNote VP500 User's Guide (software probably around too)
- Dec Serverworks Manager Overview and Install Guide (1/3" think)
with CDs for 3.2 and 3.3 (Jan and April 1998)
Cheers Jim
About three weeks ago I asked whether a shipping quote I received was
reasonable or not. The item arrived today, so I figured I'd tell how
the story turned out.
Bradley Slavik had a Wang 1220 that he wanted to give up to get back
some room. He kindly gave me the machine, and even dropped it off at my
sister's house. Then I had to find a way to get it from Chicago to Austin.
Background: Wang shipped the first dedicated word processor in 1971, the
Wang 1200. The one I received is a slightly later model.
I received two suggestions for shippers: Craters & Freighters (I already
knew about them) and Novas (gonovas.com). Both gave similar quotes, but
this particular Novas office just made a bad impression. They would say
they'd call back that afternoon, and then wouldn't, and I'd call them
the next day, and they'd say, Oh, sorry, that was bad and I rarely do
that. Once is understandable, but three times in a row doesn't make a
good impression.
So Craters and Freighters it was. They picked it up two Fridays ago,
within 24 hours of me giving them the business. The following Tuesday
they said it was crated and ready for shipment. Last Friday I got a
call from the subcontracted shipper that they were in Texas and would
deliver it today, Monday. They gave me a 3 hour window and delivered it
in that window. The box was in good shape.
Once I opened it I could see that the shipping container was well made
and I had gotten my money's worth. After half an hour of pulling
staples and folding large sheets of cardboard, I had my very own Wang
1220 word processor. It was born on Aug 1, 1973, making it a bit more
than 35 years old.
It cost $495 for the pick up, boxing, and delivery. While it has been
rare for me to spend that much on any vintage equipment, I am happy with
the way it worked out.
I've posted a few photos, in small (50kB 640x480) and large (1MB
2300x1700). Eventually I'll have a web site, but this will have to do
for now.
http://www.thebattles.net/wang/1220/smallhttp://www.thebattles.net/wang/1220/large
Things to note, in no particular order:
The 1220 is the second generation 1200. The first came out in 1971.
Both systems used modified Selectrics for keying and printing.
There is a famous story where Wang alleges that IBM purposely sabotaged
the OEM'd Selectrics to damage Wang's reputation with customers. In any
event, the 1200's were notoriously unreliable. A few years later, Wang
took another shot at it with an 8080 & CRT based word processor system,
which ended up making Wang quite profitable for a time.
the "05-rear.jpg" photo shows the microcode program store. The
microword is 44b wide, and the ALU is bit serial. The whole electronics
package is on a hinged frame. You can see only the rear of the
backplane the photo, but there are a handful of cards on the other side
implementing the CPU. The microcode store is 2K words of 44b. The
board holding the microcode also has a grid where diodes can be soldered
in to allow patching up to three arbitrary words of the ROM. Later on
they introduced a board that allowed for 12 patched words. There is no
way to load software into the machine -- it only runs what is in its ROMs.
The CPU's memory is all of 256 bytes. 100 bytes are used to hold the
current record being edited. The rest contains variables state that the
microprogram uses to track things.
"04-hood.jpg" shows that the noise damping foam has all disintegrated.
The first thing I did was to get a putty knife and scrape it all into
the garbage. This hood sits over the Selectric, but the Plexiglas
hinges up and out of the way for use.
There are two cassette decks on top. they are used in various ways, but
one common way was to have the source version on one tape and as the
typist makes corrections, the edited copy goes out to the other deck.
the system allowed editing in place, but as the tape format consists of
nothing but a train of fixed length 100 byte data blocks, in-place edits
could neither insert nor delete lines. Another use was to have a
template document in one deck and a list of contacts in the second deck,
and the machine would print out form letters customized by the contents
of the second tape.
The 09-warning.jpg sticker shows that the older machines used rope ROMs.
This is a technology whereby word lines were snaked through 44 toroid
cores. By having a given word line wind a given core or not it would be
sensed as a 0 or 1. This model uses mask ROMs.
Luckily, I happen to have schematics for this machine. A few years back
I was loaned a box of schematics to scan for the Wang 2200, but it also
contained schematics for some other Wang products. At the time I had no
thought of having a 1200 (I didn't even know any still existed), but now
I'm glad I went and scanned everything. Who knows, maybe some day I'll
run out of things that need to be done to my existing emulators and I'll
write one for the 1220. It would be the world's most boring emulator,
though.
My office now has a strong aroma of whatever oils and greases that were
applied to the Selectric probably 20 years ago. I'm amazed how volatile
it still is.
Finally, my 2200 website has a 6 page color brochure touting the amazing
features of the Wang 1200 family (6 pages, 1.5 MB):
http://wang2200.org/docs/Wang%20Word%20Processing.pdf
The collage of very early 70s people on the cover of the brochure is
worth the price of the download.