test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by drb＠msu.edu

I'm always the last one to see this silly things, but in case lightning struck for once... A documentary about Arpanet, featuring some key names, including F.J. Corbato, and various BBN folks. http://preview.tinyurl.com/6jkh5a Google video and tinyurl, sure to annoy some, to whom apologies. De

17 years, 6 months

cpm handbook claimed

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

The CP/M handbook has been claimed. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

17 years, 6 months

can anyone help jog my mmeory of an old vax model?

by dgahling＠hotmail.com

The year was somewhere between 1984 and 1989 (I think). I was working in London, Ontario (Canada) at a place called "The Software Library", We arranged with DEC (A guy named Arpad Deak) to get a MicroVax, at least, for a while. I thought it was MicroVax-II or a MicroVax-2000, but it seems not. It would have been an early/late model. It wasn't a BA-23 chasis, or typical IBM PS2 looking case, it actually looked a lot like a toaster, sort of. it looked like a big white block, it was approximately 6" to 1' tall, 6" to 1' wide, and 2 feet long. I think the drive was 146 megs, it could only handle one. It definitely ran VMS. I vaguely remember I think the front cover came off, and the drive was right there, not sure the technology. it's been ages. but does anyone have the slightest idea which one I'm referring to? I tried google, but I can't find any pictures that look remotely like it. the closest thing is like this - http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://hampage.hu/vax/kepek/3300_B.JP… but that's all "wrong". too tall, and the look is wrong. the unit we had was basically flat white, I don't remember any LED's (perhaps one). too many years gone by. Dan. _________________________________________________________________

17 years, 6 months

CP/M Handbook

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Would someone here like a copy of the CP/M Handbook by Rodney Zaks? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

17 years, 6 months

PCjr Telnet Server test (again)

by mbbrutman-cctalk＠brutman.com

I'm getting ready for the 25h anniversary of the PCjr announcement on Nov 1st. I plan to have the machine up and running serving as an 'electronic' guestbook for anybody who wants to look at it. If anybody wants to preview it and help me test it (again), it is running. Just telnet to 97.86.233.68. Since the last series of tests I've: - Added user registration and passwords - Added a session timeout - Added a 'leave a comment' feature - Fixed a major bug in the TCP reset segment handling code - Added a 'memdump' command so that you and peek at me in realtime - Recognize ASCII 127 (Rubout) as well as ASCII 8 (DEL) for editing - And quite a few other miscellaneous changes. I didn't do much with the telnet option negotiation. It should be usable by common Linux and Windows clients. It did pretty well with other telnet clients last time, but I didn't get around to things like auto-login or anything specific to terminal types. The code is around 80KB in size, which includes all of the TCP/IP stack. RAM utilization is a bit higher - most of it is buffer space. It has sockets and buffers available for 10 simultaneous users; I'm kind of curious to see how it holds up. (Tracing is at a minimum to speed it up, but it is still a 4.77Mhz machine.) Oh, and while you are on, don't forget to leave a comment! Thanks in advance, Mike

17 years, 6 months

AT&T UNIX PC - Need to hack user/password for access

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

Hi One of my students was able to repair an AT&T 7300 (67MB version) UNIX PC powersupply. Now it boots up, but we don't have the username and password. Any suggestions? BillDeg

17 years, 6 months

anyone got any transactor magazine?

by dgahling＠hotmail.com

anyone got any copies of Transactor magazine? this was a popular c64 magazine from the 80's out of toronto canada. I have quite a few, interested in collecting all the published issues if possible. Dan. _________________________________________________________________

17 years, 6 months

FS: How To Design Build & Program Your Own Working Computer System

by ken＠seefried.com

>> > > If anyone is interested, make an offer for Tab Books: "How To Design >> > > Build & Program Your Own Working Computer System" by Robert P. Haviland >> > > Pub. 1979 . 308 ppg. This is a complete how-to for the SC/MP >> > > microprocessor. >> > > >> > > > > Strangely, I'm sure I have the same title from the same publisher > > sitting on my shelf but it's for an 8080. > Hmm.... > The book is a pretty complete "how-to" for building the authors SC/MP > based "SCAMP" computer. It's quite possible the author did versions with > the same title except focusing on different microprocessors. Other > logical offspring would be the Z80, 6502,and 6800. I had the SC/MP version. I found the TAB books to be uniformly low quality, both in production and content. I found enough fundamental errors in them that I never tried to build the actual machine, as I was prett sure it would not work, or, at least, it wasn't going to be more useful than grabbing data sheets and whipping it up myself. KJ

17 years, 6 months

FS: How To Design Build & Program Your Own Working Computer System

by steerex＠ccvn.com

Thinning my collection of collectible books. If anyone is interested, make an offer for Tab Books: "How To Design Build & Program Your Own Working Computer System" by Robert P. Haviland Pub. 1979 . 308 ppg. This is a complete how-to for the SC/MP microprocessor. Reply to me directly. Postage will be from Western North Carolina. -- Steve Robertson steerex [at] ccvn [dot] com

17 years, 6 months

OT:Humor What people think their stuff is worth

by christian_liendo＠yahoo.com

I find stuff like this funny http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/tag/889529620.html Video Game Collectors Sale - $1 (New York, NY) Reply to: sale-889529620 at craigslist.org [?] Date: 2008-10-22, 5:29PM EDT $200 Atari 2600 Video Computer System with varies games(Pac-Man, Missle Command, etc.) $150 Nintendo Entertainment System with varies games(Top Gun, Bases Loaded, etc.) $100 Commodore VIC-20 Computer Collectors wanting to own a piece of video game history. All original packaging and box. Systems still works. Local delivery available Ethan, 917-334-8123 Location: New York, NY it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

17 years, 6 months

Amiga A2065

by apat＠hol.gr

Ethan, I saw in a very old post of yours that you have a couple of A2065 around. I am interested in obtaining one (if they are still available) to use for my A1000. If not let me know if you know where I can source one. Alexander

17 years, 6 months

TI Silent 700 on Craigslist

by cclist＠sydex.com

http://eugene.craigslist.org/sys/891552741.html Don't know if $100 is a good price nowadays or not. --Chuck

17 years, 6 months

FS How To Design Build & Program Your Own Working Computer System

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

________________________________ On Thursday 23 October 2008 16:02, James Wilson wrote: > Steve Robertson wrote: > > Thinning my collection of collectible books. > > > > If anyone is interested, make an offer for Tab Books: "How To Design > > Build & Program Your Own Working Computer System" by Robert P. Haviland > > Pub. 1979 . 308 ppg. This is a complete how-to for the SC/MP > > microprocessor. > > [snip] ------REPLY------ If anyone is interested in building their own home brew computer they are welcome to join us on the N8VEM project. There is a known working Z80 CP/M home brew computer with all hardware and software information published and freely available. PCBs are available for the SBC, an ECB backplane, and the recently verified working ECB bus monitor (sort of a Jade Bus Probe for ECB). There are some builder created videos of the ECB bus monitor in action here: http://www.hd64180-ecb.de/html/video.html Soon I will be having a Prototype board PCB manufactured and hopefully not too long after that I will be making a Disk IO board PCB available as well. There are numerous N8VEM builder projects in various states of completion ranging from the GIDE, LCD displays, SD reader/writers, wireless links, NVRAM, and various other things better described by the builders. If you are interested in building your own home brew computer please consider joining the N8VEM project. Thank you and have a nice day! http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem Andrew Lynch

17 years, 6 months

HP4952A and HP4957A software

by ethan.dicks＠usap.gov

On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 04:39:52PM +1100, Gordon Oliver wrote: > I'm trying to find some software for these two testers, I'd appreciate if > someone could help me. I have a 4951A, 4951B and 4952C. I have some software on TU-58-like tapes (for the 4951A ad 4951B), but no idea if a TU58 can be used to archive them. I have no 4952 software, but would love to have the terminal emulator package for it. I won't have access to my HP serial analyzers until December, but if it's possible to back up what I have, I think it should be saved and/or shared. If anyone knows how to generate 4952C diskettes, I'd love to hear about it. My understanding is that you can back up original software with the real hardware, but there's some form of simplistic DRM that prevents "sharing" application disks. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-Oct-2008 at 11:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -59.8 F (-51.0 C) Windchill -88.5 F (-67.0 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.8 kts Grid 80 Barometer 674.0 mb (10855 ft) Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html

17 years, 6 months

identify, and need any parts from old (ppro?) Unisys tower

by rescue＠hawkmountain.net

A friend of mine put in the dumpster before it goes and old Unisys tower. It is just a chassis. A big 'monster' for what appears to be an ATXish chassis. It has a huge power supply... with 3 connectors similar to ATX but in various sizes. It has 8 removable wide scsi trays and at the top had 3 or 5 5.25" bays and 1 3.5" floppy drive. The P/N within the front drive bay door is 91.58701.029 and the trays are 55.59903.031. I don't know what this is ? tried identifying it online, but no luck. Wonder if this could have been a 6x6 ? (in which case too bad the person he bought the case from gutted it) (he was going to use it for a PC case, but the huge power supply with custom wiring shelved the project for several years and now you can have a storage powerhouse in a smaller than regular ATX tower... so the behemoth went to the dumpster). If anyone can use these trays or power supply (or any other part >from the chassis (front plastic, etc)... let me know... figure $5 for 4 drive trays, $5 for the power supply... not sure what else anyone could use off it... (front plastic is good except for where someone tried to paint/etc over the Unisys logo). -- Curt

17 years, 6 months

Just won HP 4952A / HP 18179A protocol analyzer/serial adapter

by rcini＠optonline.net

On 10/25/08 1:48 AM, "Gordon Oliver" <gordon.oliver at optusnet.com.au> wrote: > Al, do you still have those HP4852A disk images? - I have a 4952 and 4957 > I'm searching for utilities and other software for. I'd be really grateful > if you could help. > > > > Gordon 4952 information is available under "Hewlett Packard" on this page of my Web site: http://www.classiccmp.org/cini/systems.htm Rich -- Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator http://www.altair32.com http://www.classiccmp.org/cini

17 years, 6 months

Just won HP 4952A / HP 18179A protocol analyzer/serial adapter

by gordon.oliver＠optusnet.com.au

Al, do you still have those HP4852A disk images? - I have a 4952 and 4957 I'm searching for utilities and other software for. I'd be really grateful if you could help. Gordon

17 years, 6 months

HP4952A and HP4957A software

by gordon.oliver＠optusnet.com.au

I'm trying to find some software for these two testers, I'd appreciate if someone could help me. Gordon.

17 years, 6 months

imsai.net

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

--- On Sun, 10/19/08, David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote: > Does anyone know what's going on with imsai.net > regarding the Series 2 > machines? I looked at the site hoping to get a drive > chassis, but that's > gone along with related to communication with Todd Fischer. This page is still there: http://imsai.net/products/MDE.htm If you click on the picture of Todd with the dollhouse (at the top of the main page) it takes you to another page that has navigation links to a bunch of other stuff. I don't know if this is just atrocious website design, or an incomplete attempt to take down the other pages. --Bill

17 years, 6 months

OT: Here is another Mac IICi $595

by christian_liendo＠yahoo.com

I like where he talks about "Advanced Hardware" http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/sys/886217650.html Apple Macintosh II ci Computer - $595 (East Hills, Long Island) Reply to: sale-886217650 at craigslist.org [?] Date: 2008-10-20, 11:38AM EDT A ?Like New? Apple Macintosh II ci Graphics Computer with Color Monitor, loaded with Hardware and Software. This can be a great Workstation for development or graphics. This computer has advanced hardware and software as follows: Hardware: 330 MB Hard Drive; Network Card; SCSI Card; PLI Infinity 40 Turbo SCSI Drive; three 44 MB SyQuest Cartridges and much more. Software: System 7.0.1 Operating System; QuarkXpress; Unitron; Norton Utilities; Alliance Power Tools and much much more. This is a GREAT BUY! Please call David or Ehud at: (516)625-3476 Location: East Hills, Long Island it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests PostingID: 886217650

17 years, 6 months

DEC Frontpanel color data?

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi folks, does anyone have a specification of the frontpanel colors used by DEC? I need information (RGB or CMYK value or pantone name...) about the dark green used on PDP12 and LAB-8/e frontpanels. I need the correct color for a restauration project. If anyone has further information, or the ability to check his frontpanel colors against a color chart... Would be very good. Best wishes, Philipp :-)

17 years, 6 months

free: Tektronix Microlab I with complete docs

by cluno＠gmx.de

Hi Kurt, I contact you in regard to the Tektronix Microlab I. Do you still have it? If it's gone, do you know to whom? Is there any documentation available? I'm asking this, because I don't have any manual about it and need it for repair of Tek 7854. Please get in contact with me. Best regards, Christian Lehnert ----------------------------------------------- People, I recently bought a Tektronix Microlab I on eBay. It was sold as is, and in fact does not work. If anybody wants to take a stab at fixing it, you can have it. It is some kind of combination trainer/emulator. It has RS-232 and audio in/out to be used by the monitor program for loading programs into RAM. It looks like a microprocessor trainer: hex keypad, LED display, buttons for stepping through and starting and stopping the program. It can support a variety of different processors via personality cards. The card that is in there is for the TI TMS9900. Good luck finding other personality cards. They definitely were produced. When it is powered up, it shows different things on the LED and never responds to user input. I have made no effort at further diagnosis. Who knows, it might just be a power supply problem (linear, I think). It comes with complete documentation on microfiche including schematics. If somebody is interested in fixing it, it's free. -kurt -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

17 years, 6 months

Relatively Early Computer Generated Art (1963)

by Apergy＠aol.com

Hello, This is my first post. Several months ago, I purchased a limited edition (12/50) photographic print of computer generated sine waves that was executed by Efriam Arazi in 1963. Arazi is considered to be a pioneer in leading edge computer graphics. I believe that the work was created by Arazi at MIT. Might anyone within or without the CCTALK community shed further light onto this work? Thank you, Randy In a message dated 10/23/2008 1:07:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org writes: Send cctalk mailing list submissions to cctalk at classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctalk-request at classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: CRT displays [was: computer graphics in the 1950s] (Tony Duell) 2. Re: CRT displays [was: computer graphics in the 1950s] (Tony Duell) 3. Re: PDP-1 Spacewar! program internals (Lee Courtney (ACM)) 4. Re: DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8) (Johnny Billquist) 5. Re: CRT displays [was: computer graphics in the 1950s] (der Mouse) 6. FS: How To Design Build & Program Your Own Working Computer System (Steve Robertson) 7. Re: DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8) (Ethan Dicks) 8. DDC BUS-65517 1553 card (lanoe) 9. OT:Humor What people think their stuff is worth (Christian Liendo) 10. OT: Atari 2600 w 10 games $400 (Christian Liendo) 11. OT: Here is another Mac IICi $595 (Christian Liendo) 12. Re: OT:Humor What people think their stuff is worth (Zane H. Healy) 13. RE: DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8) (Paul_Koning at Dell.com) 14. Re: OT:Humor What people think their stuff is worth (John Floren) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:43:34 +0100 (BST) From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: CRT displays [was: computer graphics in the 1950s] To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <m1KsjcH-000J1gC at p850ug1> Content-Type: text/plain > > I give up. I can't figure out how you define "monitor". Nor can I. It's clear (I hope) that the thing I use on my workbench with a raster-scanned CRT and a composite video input is a 'monitor' by any normal defintiion. It's equally clear to me that the DEC VT100 is not a monitor, it's a terminal (although it contains a monitor). But there are plenty of grey areas between them. > > Is it a raster-scan CRT? If so, then yes, it doesn't directly do characters. > > Is it a vector-only CRT? If so, then again it doesn't directly do characters. Try as I will, I can't think of a _CRT_ that can only be raster scanned or vector scanned. > Is it a vacuum tube with a phosphor face intended as an output device viewed by humans? That would be the definition I would assume you're using. If so, then the SAGE displays fit: those are direct view tubes that can display both vectors and characte rs, and the character display is a Charactron. Esactly. -tony ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:38:39 +0100 (BST) From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: CRT displays [was: computer graphics in the 1950s] To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <m1KsjXX-000J12C at p850ug1> Content-Type: text/plain > > >vector representation and *that* is sent to the monitor. Monitors > > >don't eat characters as input. > > > > Not unless they are a Charactron [...] > > ...which is not a monitor, so no characters are not sent to monitors. You can, of course, use words to mean what you like, but it helps if we all know that definition. So could you please tell us what you mean by (video) monitor [1], what inputs it may have, and so on. [1] I put the 'video' in to avoid discussion of monitor programs, and the like. And what do you call the HP98780? -tony ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:26:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lee Courtney $ACM$" <lee_courtney at acm.org> Subject: Re: PDP-1 Spacewar! program internals To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <100541.90698.qm at web35307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Al, Very nice interview. Is there an audio of the entire interview available on the Museum web site, or Youtube? Lee Courtney --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Al Kossow <aek at spies.com> wrote: > From: Al Kossow <aek at spies.com> > Subject: PDP-1 Spacewar! program internals > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 11:00 AM > Here is part of an oral history I recorded with Steve Russel > last > August which discusses how the Spacewar! program works > internally. > > > Exerpt of an oral history of Steve Russell > August 2008 > CHM Reference Number X4970.2008 > (C) 2008 Computer History Museum > > > Russell: Anyway, the PDP-1 arrived, and Marvin Minsky > wrote the tripos > demonstration, generally called the Minskytron, > and there was the famous weekend > where the mob of undergraduates transcribed the > macro assembler from TX-0 to the > PDP-1, because they didn't like FRAP. And > then fairly quickly thereafter, they > wrote DDT and connected up the macro symbols to > DDT. So that was all sort of in > place by the middle of the fall of 1961. And the > combination of the Minskytron and > having DDT with interactive debugging with > symbols was very tempting. I don't > remember the exact order of things, but I'm > pretty sure I started talking up a better > demonstration program than the Minskytron, and > eventually, Alan Kotok went up > to Maynard and collected the sine and cosine > routines from DECUS, presented > them to me, and said, "Okay, here are the > sine and cosine routines; now what's your > excuse?" And I discovered I had run out of > excuses; I had to actually think. And so > I started work and figured out the basic trick > of Spacewar! display which is that you > only need to calculate a unit vector pointing in > the direction of the spaceship. And > you can express everything else the spaceship > does, and the outline of the spaceship > in terms of that unit vector, suitably scaled. > So it's basically a lot of addition in the > usual program upkeep. > > Kossow: Do you want to just give an overview, then, of how > Spacewar! actually > works? > > Russell: It's one big loop, and the loop is on the > displayable objects. And I called > them displayable objects, although I didn't > know about object orientation or object- > oriented programming at the time. > > Kossow: So you have the sun-- > > Russell: Colliding objects, not displayable objects. The > colliding object is a space > ship, there are two of those. And that has a lot > of extra data with it. It shares the > position and velocity tables with all of the > torpedoes and explosions that are running > around. So there's just one big loop through > the colliding objects, and it looks at all > the higher-numbered colliding objects to see if > there's a collision, using an octagon > because you don't need to calculate the > square root of anything, you can do that by > work on X difference, Y difference, and X+Y > difference-- > > Kossow: So the bounding box for the collision detection is > an octagon? > > Russell: Yes. So it goes through, it sees if this object is > colliding with any higher- > numbered object. If it is, it replaces the > calculation routines. That's another thing > that every colliding object has, is a > calculation routine. It replaces the calculation > routine with the explosion calculation routine. > And then things take care of > themselves. Then, after it's decided whether > it's an explosion or not, it goes off to > the calculation routine. And the calculation > routine updates the position, since all > colliding objects have velocity; and if it's > a spaceship, it worries about reading the > controls and updating the other things about the > spaceship in deciding whether to > launch a torpedo or not. And if a torpedo needs > to be launched, it searches up the > colliding object table for an empty slot, > indicated by having no calculation routine. > It searches up the table for an empty slot, puts > a torpedo calculation routine there, > and the spaceship position plus the suitable > increments, so it won't run into its > torpedo, and of the velocity of the spaceship > plus an increment for the torpedo, and > it goes on. When that the main loop gets done, > you go off and do some star display > and display the sun, and calculate -- and part > of the spaceship calculation is to > calculate the effect of gravity on the > spaceship. Originally, there wasn't any gravity, > and I had an interpreter, which interpreted the > outline description, and Dan > Edwards, sometime in late 1961 or early 1962, > looked at that code and decided if he > could write a special purpose compiler which > would compile precisely the right > code, and proceeded to. And there's one > compiled outline for each spaceship; each > spaceship actually does half of the spaceship > outline and then you twiddle the > vectors and do the other half. That keeps the > display running just as fast as it can. > That gives time to calculate the effect of > gravity on the two spaceships, but not on > the torpedoes. So we decided that they were > photon torpedoes not affected by > gravity. > > Kossow: So when the explosion routine starts, it continues > calculating motion, so > the explosion moves? > > Russell: Yes. If you see two spaceships collide, if you > watch closely, you will see > that there are two explosions that continue off > in the direction that the two > spaceships were going. There is another number > in the table for all colliding > objects, which is the size. And this is, roughly > speaking, proportional to the amount > of computing it takes to compute that object. > And at the end of the loop, as you go > through the main loop, you accumulate the sizes > also; and so at the end of the loop, > there's fritter away time loop that attempts > to keep the frame rate approximately > constant. It doesn't do a wonderful job; > it's visually adequate, but God help you > when you try to take a movie of it. > > Kossow: One of the complaints with all modern kids trying > to play it now is > that it's TOO SLOW. > > Russell: Kids who are used to something like Asteroids seem > to think that. But > when we do the demos, we get a number of people > who seem to be still quite > addicted to it with the old, slow version. Now, > that was always a complaint; the > reason that all the parameters got accumulated > in the first page of the listing, which > says you can put that first page of the listing > of the console, and anyone who wanted > to try a different set of parameters could. But > the ones that were compiled in or > assembled in were the ones that I thought were > good. Now it turns out I'm not a > representative arcade game player, and so my > version of the parameters is slower > and gives more opportunity for marksmanship than > the arcade version. > > Kossow: Right, that's the whole thing with gravity and > doing the, what's that called, > where you whip around the sun? Does it have a > name, where you whip around the > sun and you shoot? > > Russell: The closest name is the "CBS maneuver" > is what happens when two lazy > experts fight each other, which is they both > turn at right angles to the sun, and fire > for 3.5 or 4 seconds, so they're now in > stable orbits, and they know it. And then they > turn at each other and start trying to place > torpedoes where they think the other one > is going to be. And so the trails turn into an > eye around the sun, and CBS used that > as a logo, so it got called the "CBS > maneuver". You can-- one of the spaceships can > go the other way around the sun, so that both > ships meet on the same side of the > sun. But that seems usually to have less chance > of winning. Not much less, but > somewhat less. > > Kossow: It's better that you stay on opposite sides, > then? > > Russell: Yes. > > Kossow: And then at some point, you added hyperspace? > > Russell: Yes, and we realized that that was going-- I > don't remember whether we > actually had it. I may have had it for a little > while with no limit, but it became very > clear that someone who didn't understand > could use hyperspace to escape their > proper justice forever, and so we added the > unreliability of hyperfield generators > very quickly. One thing that Asteroids and the > arcade versions, the later arcade > versions of Spacewar! added, which actually was > a big help, especially with their > high acceleration rates, was "training > mode" where space was actually viscous. So > if you got your ship accelerated so that it was > going across the screen so fast you > couldn't understand what was going on, if > you took your hands off, the situation > would gradually become understandable. I > don't think I would have been persuaded > to do that in the original Spacewar! because it > was unrealistic. But it definitely > made it easier to learn. > > Kossow: So are there any other favorite anecdotes about > Spacewar!, or just the > spread of Spacewar!? > > Russell: Well, the "imitation is the sincerest form > of flattery"-- many people saw > Spacewar! as, some people ask for copies of the > source, and of course we gave them > out because we very briefly considered trying to > sell Spacewar!. We realized the > only possible customer was Digital Equipment, > and we also, on a little reflection, > that they were too cheap to do it. So we gave it > out to anyone who wanted it, and > some people got the listing and thought about > it, and by reading it-- a lot of people > simply saw the game and had a computer that > wasn't the PDP-1 but did have a > display, and implemented Spacewar! their own > way. I suspect most of them figured > out the "basic trick", but I'm not > sure. > > Kossow: What "basic trick" were you thinking of? > > Russell: That you could do everything based on the > spaceship unit vector. How are > you fixed for the source code for different > implementations of Spacewar!? > > Kossow: We have a few. I don't know if we have the > PDP-10 version. We have the > 12 version, and I think we have a PDP-7 version. > > Russell: I think Bob Saunders wrote the PDP-7 version. I > think one 6 version > simply ran on the PDP-1 simulator. I think there > must have been others, but I don't > know. Something for some history grad student to > pursue. When we were running a > demo for the Yelp event, there was one woman who > had done Spacewar! in turtle > graphics as a high school programming project, > which she wasn't too happy with. > She seemed to like the demo of the original > Spacewar!. > > Kossow: So turtle graphics running on a micro or something > like that? > > Russell: I didn't quiz her. I didn't have the > opportunity to quiz her further. > > Kossow: So she thought this version was better? > > Russell: No, she just thought it was nice to see the > original. > > Kossow: So she was in her mid-20s? > > Russell: 20s or early 30s; probably 20s. The DEC field > service story where the > DEC production people got into the practice of > loading Spacewar! the last thing > before PDP-1 shipped, and field service would > then unpack it, make sure that > nothing horrible had happened, tryed turning on > power, and starting Spacewar!. > And if it worked, they would call the customer > over and say, "See, it works." If it > didn't work, then they'd worry about it. > In the restoration project, we had a little > reflection and we decided that probably if > Spacewar! works, just about everything > works, as far as machine instructions go. It > doesn't guarantee all the I/O gear works, > but it does multiply and divides, and just about > every instruction. So a lot of people > implemented Spacewar! just from knowing that it > existed and having seen it maybe > once. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:35:21 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> Subject: Re: DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8) To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <48FF6459.90408 at softjar.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 07:54:04AM -0400, djg at pdp8.net wrote: >>> Does anyone actually have a copy of the DECnet-8 software >>> >> I have disk images which seem to be it. >> http://www.pdp8online.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?words=decnet > > I will poke around in that tomorrow when our sat rises. That definitely looks like DECNET/8. Fun! >> The first two are from disks which were labeled decnet 1 and decnet 2 > > Sounds promising. > >> All the RTS docs I have seen are from dbit. >> http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl?Search=rts >> ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/doc/ > > After looking all day, I finally found the doc file I recently > discovered (most likely from dbit). It's an ASCII file named > 'decnet8.doc', internally designated "AA-5184A-TA", and happens > to briefly reference a couple of other DEC docs, "DEC-08-ORTMA", > and "DEC-8E-HMM3A". > > The primary doc file describes programs like TLK and LSN and NIP. > TLK and LSN are a line-at-a-time messaging pair. NIP (Network > Information Program) prints network status and diagnostic information. > > At first pass, DECNET/8 appears to support local traffic (process-to- > process or terminal-to-terminal) as well as a variety of interfaces > for node-to-node traffic. One list includes the KL8E, KL8J-A, KL8A, > KL8M, DP8E (interprocessor buffer), and DKC8-A (parallel). > > So to amend my previous speculations, DECNET/8 appears to provide a > basic messaging utility and user-written applications, but does not > come with any bundled file transfer capabilities. That matches my impression as well. There is a DDCMP implementation in there as well. I wonder if the TLK and LSN programs are compatible with the ones on RSX. Someone asked about compatibility between phase III and phase IV, which Paul Koenig answered. I have another question, though. As I've read it, phase III nodes can talk with phase II nodes, just as phase IV can talk with phase III. But can phase IV talk with phase II? Since DECNET/8 is phase II, this is somewhat interesting... I doubt I'll have time to look more into this any time soon, but unless someone else manage to get this working I definitely will try it sooner or later. Could anyone put up the files for convenient access with ftp? Johnny ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:00:06 -0400 (EDT) From: der Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Subject: Re: CRT displays [was: computer graphics in the 1950s] To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200810222130.RAA03919 at Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> Is it a raster-scan CRT? If [...] >> Is it a vector-only CRT? If [...] > Try as I will, I can't think of a _CRT_ that can only be raster > scanned or vector scanned. Well...one without deflection plates is rather difficult to use as a vector display, but that's a matter of complicated and unconventional driving electronics more than a matter of possibility proper. (Or, I suppose, one could use electrostatic deflection with the deflection plates outside the vacuum envelope, but that gets interesting in other ways.) But, that aside, if you want to use that narrow a definition of CRT, then no, characters are never sent to any CRT, Charactron or not; it's all voltage levels. I suppose you could view the voltage levels sent to a Charactron's pre-mask deflection electrodes as an encoding of a character; this point of view has some justice to it, since you could equally well say that a serial line doesn't carry characters, just voltage waveforms - but in that case you can view the relevant inputs to any CRT that's displaying a character as an encoding of that character, so it's really a question of which point of view is most useful. But I think we already got an explanation upthread that basically said it depended on software's view of it, making it more a question of design intent than anything else, since either "graphics" or "character" can be pressed into service as the other.... /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:25:45 -0400 From: Steve Robertson <steerex at ccvn.com> Subject: FS: How To Design Build & Program Your Own Working Computer System To: cctech at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <1224721545.17212.5.camel at bart> Content-Type: text/plain Thinning my collection of collectible books. If anyone is interested, make an offer for Tab Books: "How To Design Build & Program Your Own Working Computer System" by Robert P. Haviland Pub. 1979 . 308 ppg. This is a complete how-to for the SC/MP microprocessor. Reply to me directly. Postage will be from Western North Carolina. -- Steve Robertson steerex [at] ccvn [dot] com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:40:59 +0000 From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov> Subject: Re: DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20081023074059.GA7597 at usap.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 07:35:21PM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote: > Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov> wrote: > >>http://www.pdp8online.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?words=decnet > > > >I will poke around in that tomorrow when our sat rises. > > That definitely looks like DECNET/8. Fun! Yep... I dug around today and it looks good. > I wonder if the TLK and LSN programs are compatible with the ones on RSX. There's a comment in TLK.PA about a change made in 1976 to add "PDP11 COMPATIBILITY", so I think it's possible. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-Oct-2008 at 07:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -53.5 F (-47.5 C) Windchill -86.9 F (-66.0 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.1 kts Grid 21 Barometer 676.2 mb (10772 ft) Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:51:11 +0200 From: "lanoe" <lanoevr41 at aol.com> Subject: DDC BUS-65517 1553 card To: <cctech at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <KCEOKINBOMNOIPEFMILBAEGACGAA.lanoevr41 at aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Wouter, I have seen on an internet site that a few yeras ago you were discussing about BUS-65517 1553 card. I'm currently looking fo one o this PC board, do you have any information about the procurement of this PCB please, DDC is no longer proposing this reference. Thanks by advance Best ragrds P. LANOE ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:08:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Christian Liendo <christian_liendo at yahoo.com> Subject: OT:Humor What people think their stuff is worth To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <190818.54386.qm at web110501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I find stuff like this funny http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/tag/889529620.html Video Game Collectors Sale - $1 (New York, NY) Reply to: sale-889529620 at craigslist.org [?] Date: 2008-10-22, 5:29PM EDT $200 Atari 2600 Video Computer System with varies games(Pac-Man, Missle Command, etc.) $150 Nintendo Entertainment System with varies games(Top Gun, Bases Loaded, etc.) $100 Commodore VIC-20 Computer Collectors wanting to own a piece of video game history. All original packaging and box. Systems still works. Local delivery available Ethan, 917-334-8123 Location: New York, NY it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:10:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Christian Liendo <christian_liendo at yahoo.com> Subject: OT: Atari 2600 w 10 games $400 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <605098.29305.qm at web110514.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Some of this stuff is crazy http://newyork.craigslist.org/brx/clt/881172465.html Original Atari 2600 with games - $400 (Bronx) Reply to: sale-881172465 at craigslist.org [?] Date: 2008-10-16, 3:09AM EDT Selling an original ATARI 2600 I got in 1982 Atari 2600 with games about 10-=15 games Including defender, yars revenge, combat, misslecommand ,break out , asteroids, Frogger, Raidersof the lost ark , ET, River Raid, Space Caverns, night driver , original pac man , bezerk , championsip soccer among some, Have the original Joysticks and paddle controls. I have had them since 1982 since I was a little boy and now I am 36 . Serious inquiries only for you old timers who know what I am talking about. console works perfect and so do the cartirdges. will not negotiate on this one guys so dont even ask . $400 even no less if not then I hold on to it a few more Yrs and Get much more $$$$$ i am a maticulous man keeping my things in perfect conditions. Also have Nintendo , Super NES and Sega Genesis , Commodore 64 , And many other items in my day which are mint and flawless. Once again serious inquieries only NO LESS THAN 400 and you old timers now that is a bargin !!! Eddie (347) 702-3918 Location: Bronx it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests PostingID: 881172465 ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:12:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Christian Liendo <christian_liendo at yahoo.com> Subject: OT: Here is another Mac IICi $595 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <983369.60357.qm at web110511.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 I like where he talks about "Advanced Hardware" http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/sys/886217650.html Apple Macintosh II ci Computer - $595 (East Hills, Long Island) Reply to: sale-886217650 at craigslist.org [?] Date: 2008-10-20, 11:38AM EDT A ?Like New? Apple Macintosh II ci Graphics Computer with Color Monitor, loaded with Hardware and Software. This can be a great Workstation for development or graphics. This computer has advanced hardware and software as follows: Hardware: 330 MB Hard Drive; Network Card; SCSI Card; PLI Infinity 40 Turbo SCSI Drive; three 44 MB SyQuest Cartridges and much more. Software: System 7.0.1 Operating System; QuarkXpress; Unitron; Norton Utilities; Alliance Power Tools and much much more. This is a GREAT BUY! Please call David or Ehud at: (516)625-3476 Location: East Hills, Long Island it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests PostingID: 886217650 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:17:57 -0700 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> Subject: Re: OT:Humor What people think their stuff is worth To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <p0624081cc52634c644d4(a)[192.168.1.199]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 6:08 AM -0700 10/23/08, Christian Liendo wrote: >I find stuff like this funny > >http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/tag/889529620.html I've been watching Craigslist the past few months looking for some camera equipment I'm after. I can typically buy used stuff from a dealer with some sort of warranty for about the same price people want, or less. What really gets me is the stuff people are trying to sell for more than it costs new. The strange thing is, it's typically on the very high-end expensive stuff you can get a good deal. So far I've not purchased anything off Craigslist, as what I'm looking for hasn't turned up at a price that makes it worth messing with. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:52:05 -0500 From: <Paul_Koning at Dell.com> Subject: RE: DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8) To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <B135486A342E6244AEE1EB13118903BA019CA7F9 at ausx3mpc106.aus.amer.dell.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >I wonder if the TLK and LSN programs are compatible with the ones on RSX. FWIW, TLK/LSN exists in RSTS also. >Someone asked about compatibility between phase III and phase IV, which >Paul Koenig answered. >I have another question, though. > >As I've read it, phase III nodes can talk with phase II nodes, just as >phase IV can talk with phase III. But can phase IV talk with phase II? >Since DECNET/8 is phase II, this is somewhat interesting... I thought the comment was that DECnet/8 is Phase III? In any case, the question is no. Compatibility is one phase up, so Phase III understands II, and IV understands III, but IV->II isn't supported. It's possible that someone did implement that; it wouldn't be all that difficult. But for example DECnet/E does not. I just checked... the message code for the Phase II init message is in the definitions file, but it isn't mentioned in the routing layer code so the state machine for handling that message is absent. paul PS. I noticed that the pdf/dec/DECnet directory on bitsavers.org has some Phase II and some Phase III docs (not clearly differentiated -- the 1978 docs are Phase II, the 1980 ones are Phase III). But there are no Phase IV docs there. I know they exist elsewhere; having those copied to bitsavers would be a good thing. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:26:51 -0400 From: "John Floren" <slawmaster at gmail.com> Subject: Re: OT:Humor What people think their stuff is worth To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <7d3530220810230826s6935423eh419d888dfaa10f65 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > At 6:08 AM -0700 10/23/08, Christian Liendo wrote: >> >> I find stuff like this funny >> >> http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/tag/889529620.html > > I've been watching Craigslist the past few months looking for some camera > equipment I'm after. I can typically buy used stuff from a dealer with some > sort of warranty for about the same price people want, or less. What really > gets me is the stuff people are trying to sell for more than it costs new. > The strange thing is, it's typically on the very high-end expensive stuff > you can get a good deal. > > So far I've not purchased anything off Craigslist, as what I'm looking for > hasn't turned up at a price that makes it worth messing with. > > Zane > > Step on any college campus and see all the flyers for used laptops selling for more than they cost new... John -- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn End of cctalk Digest, Vol 62, Issue 49 ************************************** **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics ? check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

17 years, 6 months

OT:Humor What people think their stuff is worth

by slawmaster＠gmail.com

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > At 6:08 AM -0700 10/23/08, Christian Liendo wrote: >> >> I find stuff like this funny >> >> http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/tag/889529620.html > > I've been watching Craigslist the past few months looking for some camera > equipment I'm after. I can typically buy used stuff from a dealer with some > sort of warranty for about the same price people want, or less. What really > gets me is the stuff people are trying to sell for more than it costs new. > The strange thing is, it's typically on the very high-end expensive stuff > you can get a good deal. > > So far I've not purchased anything off Craigslist, as what I'm looking for > hasn't turned up at a price that makes it worth messing with. > > Zane > > Step on any college campus and see all the flyers for used laptops selling for more than they cost new... John -- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

17 years, 6 months

DECNET/8 (was Re: RTS-8)

by bqt＠softjar.se

Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 07:54:04AM -0400, djg at pdp8.net wrote: >>> Does anyone actually have a copy of the DECnet-8 software >>> >> I have disk images which seem to be it. >> http://www.pdp8online.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?words=decnet > > I will poke around in that tomorrow when our sat rises. That definitely looks like DECNET/8. Fun! >> The first two are from disks which were labeled decnet 1 and decnet 2 > > Sounds promising. > >> All the RTS docs I have seen are from dbit. >> http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl?Search=rts >> ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/doc/ > > After looking all day, I finally found the doc file I recently > discovered (most likely from dbit). It's an ASCII file named > 'decnet8.doc', internally designated "AA-5184A-TA", and happens > to briefly reference a couple of other DEC docs, "DEC-08-ORTMA", > and "DEC-8E-HMM3A". > > The primary doc file describes programs like TLK and LSN and NIP. > TLK and LSN are a line-at-a-time messaging pair. NIP (Network > Information Program) prints network status and diagnostic information. > > At first pass, DECNET/8 appears to support local traffic (process-to- > process or terminal-to-terminal) as well as a variety of interfaces > for node-to-node traffic. One list includes the KL8E, KL8J-A, KL8A, > KL8M, DP8E (interprocessor buffer), and DKC8-A (parallel). > > So to amend my previous speculations, DECNET/8 appears to provide a > basic messaging utility and user-written applications, but does not > come with any bundled file transfer capabilities. That matches my impression as well. There is a DDCMP implementation in there as well. I wonder if the TLK and LSN programs are compatible with the ones on RSX. Someone asked about compatibility between phase III and phase IV, which Paul Koenig answered. I have another question, though. As I've read it, phase III nodes can talk with phase II nodes, just as phase IV can talk with phase III. But can phase IV talk with phase II? Since DECNET/8 is phase II, this is somewhat interesting... I doubt I'll have time to look more into this any time soon, but unless someone else manage to get this working I definitely will try it sooner or later. Could anyone put up the files for convenient access with ftp? Johnny

17 years, 6 months

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