test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by robgarn＠mac.com

Ed, Ethan, I have a copy of the DEC Computer Lab Teacher's Guide, 1st edition, 1968. I'll be away this weekend, but can try to get it scanned next week (and posted to bitsavers if not already there. It does have a spine...) - Robert On Jan 22, 2009, at 6:34 AM, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:45:44 -0500 > From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Subject: Wanted: DEC Computer Lab manuals > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: > <f4eb766f0901212145m5361ec1u22f48f98ead914c4 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi, All, > > I was one of the ones lucky enough to get one of the DEC Computer Labs > on ePay last month. Mine finally showed up, and after a quick > inspection, I'm ready to make some cables and hook up some circuits. > > Somewhere, I do have the teacher's manual. It was given to me nearly > 30 years ago, a thoughtful gift from my step-dad's mother who was the > local high school chem teacher. I haven't seen my copy in years, and > I'm worried it was one of the things I lost in a basement flood in the > 1980s. I did a google search and a look through bitsavers and didn't > see anything to download, but I did see that this topic has come up on > the list before. There was a call for scanning the docs some time > back (6 years ago?) but no posting of where said scans might be. > Also, there are Phillip's pictures of the cables on grid paper, so > they look like pretty ordinary crimp pins, but I'm having to guess at > the nominal diameter... 3mm? From the cover of the student manual, it > looks like there are 25-ish of the shortest (brown) jumpers, and fewer > of each longer length, but if anyone has a documented count of the > number of each length of jumper wire, that'd be really nice to know. > > So are there scans of the student and teacher's manuals for the > Computer Lab anywhere, and does anyone have a list (including in one > of the manuals) of the normal inventory of jumper leads? > > Oh... one more thing... does anyone have any idea which bi-pin bulbs > DEC used on this? I didn 't tear mine apart far enough tonight to get > bulb details. > > Thanks, > > -ethan > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:32:54 +0100 (CET) > From: "Ed Groenenberg" <quapla at xs4all.nl> > Subject: Re: Wanted: DEC Computer Lab manuals > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <18868.213.169.196.228.1232613174.squirrel at webmail.xs4all.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > > I'm also interested in a scanned or Xerox copied version, as I also > bought one of those Computer Lab's. It still has to arrive, overseas > shipping takes sometimes longer than one hopes. > >

17 years, 3 months

PDX surplus stores was: Great day at Tek

by innfoclassics＠gmail.com

> I assume he means the "Tek Country Store" which has operated in various > locations since at least the early 70's. Last I heard it is somewhere on > the Beaverton Tek Campus (is that the only one left?), and is only open once > a month. I for one would love to know the current info on it. It is the Tektronix surplus store, generally selling surplus of what they use not what they make. Sounds like I have to go back also. I used to enjoy the store, the wait before the door opens, the polite run and exploring the stuff. A quick google search brought up this on the Portland robotics web site. Tektronix Country Store Beaverton Campus Building 38 Loading Dock (East side of building). 503-627-6769 Public Hours: 1st and 3rd Thursday of the month from 2-4pm www.tek.com/ir/bv_map.html People start lining up before opening to get the best stuff (including the commercial surplus store owners). Now including Tek equipment for sale, too! When I did it I was one of those commercial surplus store owners..........And they mention test equipment has been added. Another store on the Robotics list is: SurplusGizmos 5797 NW Cornelius Pass Road Hillsboro Oregon 97124 Warehouse: 503-439-1249 Mobile: 503-345-9187 Hours: Wednesday and Friday 11am to 6pm Saturday 11am to 5pm surplusgizmos.com Surplus stuff with an online store. Anyone been there? I have yet to make it. Paxton -- Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA

17 years, 3 months

Running 3 phase 780s on single phase power

by bqt＠softjar.se

Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> wrote: > On Sunday 18 January 2009, Bob Armstrong wrote: >> People need to understand the danger in this - in any multiphase >> power system, the neutral current is the DIFFERENCE of the current in >> the individual phases. If the load is perfectly balanced, then the >> neutral current will be zero. >> >> But, if you run the same load from three separate single phase >> circuits and (worst case) the three circuits are all the same phase, >> then the neutral current will be the SUM of all three phase currents. >> That's 3 times what it would be otherwise and runs a serious danger >> of melting the neutral and starting a fire. > > This is exactly the point I was trying to get across. I'm not going to argue with you on this, however, see below... >> Actually I thought the DEC power controllers had a circuit breaker >> in the neutral leg too just to prevent somebody from doing something >> like this. The split phase models do - are the three phase power >> controllers different ? > > I *think* that it does, but without opening one up or digging through > bitsavers, I can't remember for sure. I do seem to remember though, > that the breaker has the 3 phases, neutral, and a shunt-trip run > through it for thermal overload/lack of airflow. > > Anyways, in my experience on my 11/780 (which isn't a full config), the > CPU, memory box, unibus controller, fans, 11/03, and RX01 together draw > no more than a total of 24A at 120V, so it may be possible to run the > system off of a single 120V supply, but I wouldn't recommend it. > Adding anything like a second memory box, DU780, an RH780 or something > else to the CPU (does the LSTTL in the 785 draw more or less power than > the 780's cpu at their respective clock speeds?) What you need to understand here, is that there is nothing in a 11/780 that is actually driven by 3-phase power. And the power controller is nothing like what you are trying to describe. The 11/780, along with very much of all DEC equipment that used 3-phase power, did it just to lessen the load per fuse, along with getting enough power to the system. If you look inside, you'll see that the 3-phase goes into a power distribution box, and from there you have a number of single-phase sockets. And they are grouped in three separate groups. Each group is driven by one phase of the 3-phase power, and the other pin is ground on all sockets. And with this kind of construction, it really isn't any problem at all in using the same phase for all three phases. There are very few things DEC did which really required 3-phase power. Off my head, I know that the 86x0 machines really require 3-phase (the fans are AC motors), the RP06 drives use AC motors (probably RP04 and RP05 as well). I'm not sure, but it might be that KL-10 machines actually used 3-phase. It's been a while since I looked inside one. But as always, if you try do run a machine with 3-phase power off a single phase, you need to know how that machine is built, and if it actually is possible do "rewire" it. Don't play around with this if you don't really know, because it can be lethal both to the machine and you. Johnny

17 years, 3 months

ebay: 3 apollo workstation cards

by legalize＠xmission.com

ebay item # 260350673746 Someone may be interested in this... not sure what workstation they are for. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

17 years, 3 months

DW11-B (was Re: VS11)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> > The VS11 is the M7061-YA / M7062 / M7064 Q-BUS board set. >> >> That don't make sense. The VS11 was a Unibus device. The Qbus equivalent >> was the VSV11, which was then replaced by the VSV21 (I have one of those). > > >From waht I remember, the VS11 was a VSV11 (Qbus) with a DW11-B > (Unibus-Qbus interface). I have a DW11 w/DDV11-CK for an "IB11" (IBV11 for Unibus). It came with an 11/34 from a University setting (thus the DD11V-CK backplane). I've thought about using that with a Qbus SCSI card, but haven't tried it yet. AFAIK, there's nothing funny about mapping since it's an 18-bit Qbus card presented to an 18-bit Unibus, so there shouldn't be driver issues. -ethan

17 years, 3 months

VT-100 BNC jacks

by fsmith＠ladylinux.com

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 12:09:50 Ian Primus wrote: > What's the size of the tube? The real VT100 had a 12" tube, but I don't > know about your VT100 clone. You should be able to rob a tube from another > terminal, or a portable B&W TV set and replace it. If it's a 9" tube, hunt > down an old security monitor. A scope tube isn't going to work - those use > drastically different deflection angles (and in some cases electrostatic > deflection). > > -Ian Its 4 inches diagonally. About the size of a Osbourne 1 display. -- Kindest Regards, No Problems Only Solutions Hosting Admins Baltimore, Maryland

17 years, 3 months

VT-100 BNC jacks

by fsmith＠ladylinux.com

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 21:14:32 Tony Duell wrote: > There were some small 5" portale TVs sold in the UK a couple of years > back. Maybe a CRT from one of those could be shoehorned in. Ok, I am going to have to take this thing apart and get some part numbers and also look around and try and find a tube. I have been playing wack a mole with some a$$hats for a internet service provider and will be for a couple more days. I will post back here after I have some more concrete info. -- Kindest Regards, No Problems Only Solutions Hosting Admins Baltimore, Maryland

17 years, 3 months

VS11

by bqt＠softjar.se

Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote: > In the VS11-FX/HX/JX Raster Graphics System Installation Manual > EK-VSFHJ-IN-001 there are illustrations of this box being used in > combination with a VRV02-AA/AB color monitor where the box is refered > to as the "keyboard interface box" and the combination of the monitor > and the "keyboard interface box" makes up the VRV02-FA/FB. > > The "keyboard interface box" video output feeds into the VS11 where > the terminal video output is then fed back out along with the VS11 > raster graphics output to the monitor. > > The VS11 is the M7061-YA / M7062 / M7064 Q-BUS board set. That don't make sense. The VS11 was a Unibus device. The Qbus equivalent was the VSV11, which was then replaced by the VSV21 (I have one of those). Ah, looking at the field guide, the M7061/7062/7064 *is* a VSV11. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

17 years, 3 months

VT-100 BNC jacks

by fsmith＠ladylinux.com

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 06:19:57 Tim Shoppa wrote: > A regular VT-100 puts out composite/RS-170 video on a BNC jack on the back. > (Classic problem from a few decades ago: people plugging the school's > thinnet ethernet onto the VT-100 video out connector!) > > I don't see any BNC's on the back of Francesca's Franken-VT-100. But > I'd be pretty sure the Ball Brothers unit just takes the composite video > in. > > Didn't some early regular VT-100's use Ball Brothers screens and flybacks > too? I remember a couple variations of the CRT/flyback boards some more > reliable than the others. Somewhere I've got pictures of my garage > completely filled with VT-100's! Hi actually it does have those BNC's and yes when I was working at JPL back in the old days I had to explain to a person in charge of one of the computing department's that in fact they could not create a network series of VT-100's using the then new Thin Net network being installed lab wide. :-) The problem is the small size of the tube actually. Now the part that is broke is the neck. I am thinking maybe I can find a smaller CRT from a scope or so to replace it. But that would be after I tear this thing apart since the label for the crt itself is of course upside down and blocked by the flyback/scan board. I do see a E C as a possible company name on it. -- Kindest Regards, No Problems Only Solutions Hosting Admins Baltimore, Maryland

17 years, 3 months

Apple Mac and CNN

by mikelee＠tdh.com

Looks like CNN is joining the bandwagon on vintage Macs, and asking for stories and content. http://www.ireport.com/ir-topic-stories.jspa?topicId=186195

17 years, 3 months

SB-11

by fsmith＠ladylinux.com

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 06:19:57 Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ wrote: > Every so often this crops up... ?Is it a black-and-white CRT? ?Do you > know roughly what the scan rate is? > > Perhaps you could use a tube from a scrapped TV. ?They can't be *that* > different. Well the tube is about 4 inch in size. About the size of a old Osbourne. Not sure what it is since its broke. I guess time to remove it and look underneath for any markings. -- Kindest Regards, No Problems Only Solutions Hosting Admins Baltimore, Maryland

17 years, 3 months

hams on classiccmp

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Wonder who else? probably lots.. Eric Smith just got his licence. I know Don North is, as am I (wb9ggj)

17 years, 3 months

OMSI Basic for OS/8

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

Does anyone know where I can find a reference manual for OMSI Basic for OS/8? I've found executables for OMSI Basic 3.0 for OS/8 but can't find any documentation on the net. Thanks! David

17 years, 3 months

FREE: misc small hardware (mostly SUN)

by bob＠copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca

Dear Gentlegeeks, Thank you for your generous offers to help unburden me of some classic hardware. I was so surprised by some of the stuff that generated interest that I thought I'd list a few more odds and ends that originally seemed just too ancient or oddball to mention: 1 x Artecon SB-16 (?) SBUS serial card. No breakout cable or anything like that. 1 x SUN 540-2007 serial/parallel controller breakout panel & cable (i.e. a metal box with rubber feet and 8 serial + 1 parallel female DB25 connectors on it + a big, beefy cable to connect it to whatever used to do the Real Work) 3 x mini-DIN - female DB25 SUN serial cables (I forget what model SUN they fit) 5 x SUN mini-DIN keyboard cables ? x various SUN SCSI cables with the Really Old connectors (DB50?) they used + a couple of terminators 3 x DB25 - CENT50 Apple SCSI cables 3 x Macintosh Hard Disk Toolkits (still shrink-wrapped) No one wants the SUN power supplies? I guess no one needs them while supplies last :-) Again, please contact me off-list if you are interested in any of this stuff. And PLEASE tell me approximately where it needs to be shipped so I can figure out how much it will cost. Cheers, Bob. Bob Bramwell | The birds have vanished into the sky, | and now the last cloud drains away. +1 902 531 2289 | We sit together, the mountain and I, | until only the mountain remains. | - Li Po, 8th Century Chinese poet

17 years, 3 months

Stuff available in Cupertino, CA -- Free for local pickup, or make offer

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

I am cleaning house and have the following available to a good home. All are free if you can pick up locally in Cupertino, CA. Otherwise, if you make a decent offer I'll ship the smaller items. I'm looking to clear out some stuff quickly. * Northstar Horizon chassis and power supply, with backplane * Atari 520ST gear (2 system units, power supply, monitor) * Keyboards for TI99/A, Coleco Adam, Atari 1200XL * Sun/Sony GDM-20E220 Trinitron CRT monitor * Perkin-Elmer "Owl" terminal (fixer-upper or parts) While perhaps a bit off-topic, I also have the following available: * ePods internet appliances (slate-style with stylus, runs Windows CE) * I-Opener internet appliances (desktop with integral LCD, hack to run Windows or Linux) * Webpal internet appliances (ARM-based, VGA, hack to run Linux) * Barometric pressure transducer assembly, e.g., for digital weather station I have posted more detailed descriptions at www.harlie.org/stuff.html --Bill

17 years, 3 months

Hitachi DK-815 SMD drives

by bob＠jfcl.com

Does anyone have any information on using the control panel and internal diagnostics on these drives? I have a couple that I'd like to be able to test out w/o hooking them up to a controller. The DK-815s were fairly common 8" SMD drives on Sun server systems of the Sun-3 vintage. Bitsavers and manx both appear to have nothing on them. Thanks, Bob

17 years, 3 months

Russian PDP11 CPU chips on ebay...

by gordonjcp＠gjcp.net

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=12036621970 Two things I wonder about: How many has he got, and how hard would it be to make an SBC-6120-alike for the -11 with that? Gordon

17 years, 3 months

Wanted: DEC Computer Lab manuals

by quapla＠xs4all.nl

I'm also interested in a scanned or Xerox copied version, as I also bought one of those Computer Lab's. It still has to arrive, overseas shipping takes sometimes longer than one hopes. > Hi, All, > > I was one of the ones lucky enough to get one of the DEC Computer Labs > on ePay last month. Mine finally showed up, and after a quick > inspection, I'm ready to make some cables and hook up some circuits. ---snip--- > So are there scans of the student and teacher's manuals for the > Computer Lab anywhere, and does anyone have a list (including in one > of the manuals) of the normal inventory of jumper leads? > > Oh... one more thing... does anyone have any idea which bi-pin bulbs > DEC used on this? I didn 't tear mine apart far enough tonight to get > bulb details. > > Thanks, > > -ethan >

17 years, 3 months

PRO-380 (was: Russian PDP11 CPU chips on ebay...)

by bqt＠softjar.se

Paul Koning <Paul_Koning at Dell.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> "emu" == emu <emu at e-bbes.com> writes: > > emu> Quoting Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ <gordonjcp at gjcp.net>: > >> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=12036621970 > >> > >> Two things I wonder about: How many has he got, and how hard would > >> it be to make an SBC-6120-alike for the -11 with that? > > emu> What's wrong with the original J11's ? I think they look even > emu> nicer than the black ones ... > > emu> And then you could make something like a PRO-385 ;-) > > Wouldn't it be a PRO-380? Well, unless you can clock it at 20 MHz > which was the original plan for the 380, but the J-11 failed to > deliver so they ended up at 10. I think he might have meant PRO-385 as an improvement on the PRO-380...? :-) However, the J11 originally didn't deliver the planned 20 MHz, but it sure delivered more than 10 MHz. The reason the PRO-380 stayed at 10 MHz anyway was because the support chips DEC used for the PRO couldn't handle higher speeds. So even though the J11 could deliver atleast 15 MHz (which is what the 11/53 and 11/73 uses) and probably 18 MHz (which is what later 11/73 and the 11/8x use), the PRO (unfortunately) stopped at 10 MHz (which you can't blame on the J11). Even worse (I think) is that P/OS never supported split I/D space, nor supervisor mode, so the PRO makes very little use of the J11 cpu. (The 11/9x machines eventually used 20 MHz J11 cpus.) > Note that making a PRO-38x means you have to reverse engineer the I/O > control gate array and the video hardware, both of which are likely to > be serious exercises in masochism. (Why reverse engineer the most > bone-headed I/O design in the history of DEC?) Either that, or a lot > of discrete parts to make a PRO-350 clone. I couldn't agree more. :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

17 years, 3 months

Wall warts

by technobug＠comcast.net

Message: 26 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:01:00 +0000 (GMT) From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Wall warts; was: hams on classiccmp To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <m1LPOef-000J3QC at p850ug1> Content-Type: text/plain Tony Duell wrote: > I feel these standard, or at least the 'CE mark' is part of the > problem, > and here's why.... > > It would apperar there are either loopholes in the standard, or > plenty of > cheap electrical devices (including wall-warts) that have invalid CE > marks on them, in that I've seem enough devices that I don't consider > safe. The problem is that if the wall-wart carries the CE mark, then > as > you said, the certification for the whole product becomes a lot > easier, > and if there are any problems later, a large part of the defence is > 'But > the wall wart met the appropriate CE standards'. Specifically, what do you consider unsafe about current wall-warts? I've found all the devices I've been in of late to be well designed and quite safe - cheap, yes. Perhaps you have been expecting accessible fuses. For some time the fuses have been located next to the core under the windings and act both as current and thermal protection devices. Most of the ones I've opened up have both the primary and secondary fused. I have yet to find one with the turns actually fused open. Granted, it's a bit more work to repair one, but well worth the time it takes to unwind the primary and secondary, replace the fuses, and rewind same. ;=) > But when manufacturers were entirely responsible for what their > devices > did, they made darn sure they were safe. Said manufacturers did not > want > to end up paying out large amounts of damages. SO th products really > _were_ safe. And in so many cases the manufacturer's concept of what was safe was not that of the court. Consequently, the certification standards. > I offer as an example the PSU brick for the Philips G7000 video game. > It's a bit like awall-wart, except it has a mains input cable that you > wire to a suitale plug. But inside that brick (which is nicely screwed > together), there are no fewer than 3 protective devices. A mains-side > fuse, a secondary fuse, and a thermal fuse (on the mains side). And the reason the warts are now sealed is that some bright person, having no idea of what he/she/it was doing, opened one and (chose one) 1. set it ablaze, 2. caused some sort of laceration on a sharp edge, or 3. left it open and plugged in and fried fido. We now have a mentality that disallows Darwinism and hence the large number of people developing standards to guide and protect the designer/ manufacturer. Again, what you might consider safe might not be what others consider safe. CRC

17 years, 3 months

FS: Psion II LZ Organizer

by silent700＠gmail.com

I believe this qualifies, more or less, as a computer, and is definitely over 10 years old: http://www.bioeddie.co.uk/models/psion-ll-organiser-lz.htm I have the main unit, which I've tested and appears to work fine, a number of ROM and RAM carts, and a bunch of books. Asking $50, including shipping in the Lower 48. International pays for shipping (sorry.)

17 years, 3 months

SB11

by fsmith＠ladylinux.com

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 12:09:50 Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ wrote: > I'd build a little dinky PDP11 in it, with an added-on LTC as described > above so I could run TSX+. ?I kind of miss my PDP11, and I'd like to get > another (smaller) one. Yah I want to do this. But the power in this lil guy seems to not be up to snuff enough to power a decent setup. That is from reading some mailing list posts about it from a lil googling and help here. -- Kindest Regards, No Problems Only Solutions Hosting Admins Baltimore, Maryland

17 years, 3 months

SB 11

by fsmith＠ladylinux.com

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 12:09:50 Glen Slick wrote: > I have one of the same VT100 boxes in its original configuration, > which is without any CRT and with a full metal skin around it with a > handle on top making it somewhat like a giant lunchbox. Ohhh that sounds neat .. do you have any pictures of it that you could share ??? > The "keyboard interface box" video output feeds into the VS11 where > the terminal video output is then fed back out along with the VS11 > raster graphics output to the monitor. > > The VS11 is the M7061-YA / M7062 / M7064 Q-BUS board set. I have a VS11 here. Maybe a couple of them. This is interesting thank you. -- Kindest Regards, No Problems Only Solutions Hosting Admins Baltimore, Maryland

17 years, 3 months

SB 11

by fsmith＠ladylinux.com

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 21:14:32 Dave McGuire wrote: > Grrrrr. That is a fairly rare box. > > An LTC signal can be generated trivially with a tiny board that > can be buried inside the chassis. > > -Dave :-) .. I was just musing is all. I WOULD never do anything to compromise the originality of the unit in question. -- Kindest Regards, No Problems Only Solutions Hosting Admins Baltimore, Maryland

17 years, 3 months

Keypunch drums (was Oxidation)

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> From: "Brian Knittel" <brian at quarterbyte.com> > Subject: Re: Oxidation > >> Roger Holmes wrote: >> >> A couple of [keypunch drums] have come up on eBay in the last five >> years and both went for silly money which to me means there are >> more keypunches than drums. > > That's one interpretation, but it just considers the scarceness > factor. > You also have to figure in the saneness factor. If you want a punched > card era memorabilis, a drum is a heck of a lot easier to ship, store > and display than a whole keypunch machine. But why would someone find that particular part of a keypunch so desirable? I have many small parts of a verifier I broke up for spares for my keypunch. At silly prices someone could make a career buying keypunches and breaking them up for selling on eBay.

17 years, 3 months

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