- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by rcini＠msn.com

Allison: >>the mod was to bring out ras* cas* and MUX* with terminating resistors at one or both ends. These signals went through the EI cable but timing was critical at best. the later EIs derived cas* and mux* off of ras* inside rather than pipe them over. Generally speaking the mod was one where if it was mostly working it MIGHT help, sometimes it made it worse. There was another mod after that called the buffered EI cable...not a good idea either. Fixing the EI was the solution.<< One of the two units that I have has the mod and the other doesn't. The one without came with the buffered EI cable, so what you said makes sense. Thanks for the info; now I can trace the mod on the new schematics. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

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Datamaster troubles

by rcini＠msn.com

Philip: Thanks for the error codes. I have no manuals for the Datamaster, so I'm flying blind. The code "09" is inverse-blinking, so there is a real problem. I'll try to pull the chips and re-seat them. The machine worked last summer and wasn't used since then, so I can't imagine the chip going like that. Thanks again for the help. I'll let you know what I find. My company has a UK office (Burdale-Holdings, a trade finance company). If I do need a new chip, maybe we could arrange it so that you could drop it off at our London office (if you're near it) and they could send it to me. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 09:05:06 BST From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Datamaster troubles Message-ID: <9706158689.AA868982856(a)compsci.powertech.co.uk> Rich Cini wrote: > Well, I'm reviving my Datamaster. Last year, it worked fine (I at least > could get into Basic). This year, I can't even get it to boot. I have no > manuals for the darned thing, so I have no idea what the numbers on the screen > during the POST mean. I have one reverse-highlighted number: "09" and I'm > assuming that this is a hardware failure code. As promised, I have hunted through my various IBM System/23 (Datamaster) manuals, and found the meanings of the POD (Power-on Diagnostics) error codes. Here is a summary: FF} 00} CPU Failure (!) 01} 02 Failure of first ROS module (Read Only Storage module, i.e. ROM chip) 03 Reserved. If this is highlighted, panic. 04 Failure in bottom 16k of storage, or of storage controller 05 CRT (presumably actually monitor) or DMA failure 06} CRT interface 07} 08 Page registers 09-} ROS failure. There follows a little diagram to tell you which chip 19 } to replace. Yes, the diagram in the manual is made of text, too. ** TOP VIEW OF PLANAR SEEN FROM THE REAR ** _______________________________________________ | ====== ====== <-- NOT FOUND ON | | | 10 | | 11 | <-- SOME EARLY | | =3=40= =3=60= <-- MACHINES | | | | ====== ====== | | | 19 | | 0D | | | =7=60= =1=60= | | *********************** | | =PATCH= ====== * PHYSICAL LOCATION * | | | 18 | | 0C | * OF ROS MODULES * | | =7=40== =1=40= * FOR EACH ERROR CODE * | | *********************** | | ====== ====== | | | 17 | | 0B | -KEY- | | =6=60= =0=60= ====== | | | XX | | | ====== ====== =Y=ZZ= | | | 16 | | 0A | XX=POD ERROR CODE | | =6=40= =0=40= Y=ROS PAGE VALUE | | ZZ=HIGH ORDER BYTE OF | | ====== ====== FIRST ADDRESS IN | | | 15 | | 09 | ROS MODULE. | | =5=60= =0=20= | | ---(CABLE)-------------- | | ====== ====== | ====== | | | | 14 | | 02 | | | 09 | CO-PLANAR | | | =5=40= =0=00= | =0=20= BOARD. | | | | (FOUND ON | | | ====== | ====== SOME EARLY | | | | 13 | | | 10 | MACHINES.) | | | =4=60= | =3=40= | | | | | | | ====== | ====== | | | | 12 | | | 11 | | | | =4=40= | =3=60= | | | ------------------------ | ----------------------------------------------- 1A-} ROS failure on feature card 26 } 27 ROS failure on 2nd printer card 28} ROS failure on feature card 29} 2A-} RAM failure. Table (which I shan't include) of how codes 30 } relate to different sizes of machine. 31 RAM page access failure 32 DMA page register failure 33 Interrupt controller failure 34 Timer interrupt failure 35 Keyboard error. If flashing, keyboard controller. If not flashing, you pressed a key at the wrong moment :-) 36 Printer failure 37 Printer not switched on 38 Diskette attachment failure 39 24 volt rail not reading 24 volts 3A-} belong to add-ons not to the system. I didn't bring the FE } relevant manual pages. General rules for interpretation: Flashing inverse video = fatal error. Non-flashing inverse video = error. Press the Error-reset key and let the machine finish booting. Then run the diagnostics dikette, I suppose. To summarise, it appears you have a dud ROM chip. I imagine the solution is to copy a ROM chip from another Datamaster. If necessary, I can arrange to copy mine, but I don't know off-hand what sort of chips they are. I would also suggest that, unless you too are in England, logistics of getting the chip to you might be hard... Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by manney＠nwohio.com

> Hello there, I run a fileserver that has 2 ST-225 20 meg drives, and 1 NEC > 420 meg IDE drive, this system runs 24/7, and has been running for 2 months > continuous now. My question is what is the life expectancy of these drives, > it is often said that the ST-225 series are not reliable, however they > continue to run strong. also these things run so hot that you can fry an egg > on it! :) Where is the heat localized? The logic board gets hot around the bearing (bushing), but the case itself shouldn't get hot. I'd be worried. I deal with a *lot* of old systems, and I don't see any more dead ST-225's than others. I always keep an ST-225 around, 'cause I *know* it'll go on #2 in the ROM drive table if I can't locate the listing in the BIOS.

28 years, 8 months

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PAM computer, Convergent?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->On the OUTSIDE, in their scrap yard, is where most of the computer ->stuff ends up. I once found a WICAT *and* an EXORCISOR II out ->there-- both filled with water. (Sob!). Heh, I would have used that to get them cheap. Then I'd take them home wash them out throughly and disassembled and dried them well. Generally water is not that damaging. Just done power them wet. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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While the cat's away...

by bw＠booster.bothell.washington.edu

;) Hi all. Due to a major computer disaster here at work I haven't been reading list mail and probably won't for a few more days. So, I'm not ignoring anyone and if anything is really important e-mail me directly (bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu). And, if anyone can tell me why 11 NT servers in a single domain would crash one at a time every 4 minutes and 20 seconds until the whole network is gone - please let me know ;). Bill

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Museums

by manney＠nwohio.com

> What should be on display considering: > 1) space limitation > 2) Mainframes, minis, micros > 3) What would most attract visitors > 4) What would most attract funding :) Three things which have changed radically over the years.are - 01 Power (including speed) - 10 Cost - 11 Display capabilities (on affordable systems, that is) You might want to consider comparing the above parameters system-by-system. Software has become less klunky over the years. Try having an ancient word processor running so people can see, say, the number of steps required to open a file. Don't forget output technology...compare an old daisy wheel to a laser, a superannuated 9 pin to a modern 24 pin, get a thermal printer, and a thinkjet (really raunchy output, but FAST). I'm collecting historically significant micros (such as the C64 -- they're cheap, so everyone got one.) If you can get the dirt on why, for example, CBM shot themselves in the foot, that would be interesting. Why aren't Apples more common, for example?

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 01:18 PM 7/15/97 +0000, you wrote: >simply too small try first: under the width of drive cage, seal the >grille holes on metal sheet and on case cover on right side, seal >that underside holes, all with a good tape. On that XT PSU, how much >airflow blowing out back, weak? Look for a replacement fan that does >better than this el cheapo fans. Try AT type case if you can, they >has bigger, powerful fan. Ok, I checked it out, and it appears that there already is a vinyl plastic glued to the front, with a 5160 sticker on it. I also put a cardboard cover in the empty bay, and this seems to work. the PSU is actually not IBM made, it is an aftermarket brand that has a strong fan in it, stronger than what I find on NEW Yackard Hells! <G> >XT case design especially in cooling department is bit goofy, blamed >by IBM for this ill. :) It continues to amaze me on just WHY whatever IBM made, as flawed as it is, the public jumped on it and supported it... look at winsucks 95..... >> there is good air flow, just they seem to run this >> hot. >More power to air flow is needed, see the tips.. >> I never ran these drives before and have no idea how hot they should >> be. as for power cycling, they get NONE. this system has been running for 2 >> months continous, without any powerdowns since they were installed, so for 2 >> months now, the thermal stability has (hopefully) stayed the same. >> thanx >Hey, no problem! >Jason D. >

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 09:34 AM 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >First off why bother withg the st225s? They are slow (st251s are >faster!) and their reliability is at best ok. FYI: st225s live far I would if I had a ST-251, but I got 4 ST-225's, and 2 of them are in use, and the other 2 are spares. they are slow, but they do work nicely. I also like the sound of old hardware, the new drives you can hardly hear them run, with these, you can hear them a mile away! :) The cooling fan on this machine is as loud as the hard disks, and moves lots of warm air.. >longer if they are cooled. If the fan isn't noisy it isn't moving enough >air past them, seriously! Also if they are in the smae box as all the >other hardware they raise the other components temperature lowering their it is in an XT case, which is huge, and has one slot free for air to move.. and my room is not air condidtioned, but the house is, but the cold never travels in here! <G> >life. Heat is not your friend, this is why computer rooms are air >conditioned an usuialy under 70 degrees F. > >Allison > >

28 years, 8 months

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New surplus outlet!

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

Denizens of the Bay Area, check this out! HMR Recycling (www.hmr-usa.com), when I had the opportunity to visit, reminded me greatly of one of the Surplus Warehouses of Olde. Reasonable prices, huge assortment to choose from, and 100,000 sq. feet of warehouse to peruse! Example: Nearly new-looking Tektronix 7844 dual-beam O-scope, with a pair each of 7B92A timebase and 7A26 vertical plugins, with cart: $400. Other examples: Emulex P3000 print server, $20. DEC RRD42 SCSI CD-ROM drive, $20. Exabyte EXB-8200 2.3 gig 8mm tape drive, $125. One of my finds there was a pair of DEC storage expansion cabinets at $45 each (bargained down from $50 since I bought both of them). They each contained a pair of DEC RZ57 drives (made by Micropolis, 1.0 gigs each, all SCSI). Heck of a deal! They get new stuff in literally every day. I went there twice on different days, and found some neat deals both times. 08:00-16:30, Monday-Friday only, minimum purchase $20.00, and you need to sign the visitor log and wear a visitor badge while looking around. Other than that, enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>>>jpero... Sorry if this is long but it is important to users of classic machines. <I gently disagree with this assertion that ST251 series is good than <ST225 series. I got too many dead ST251 series compared to ST225's <due to weaker structral design, pushed design by driving steppers too <hard byond 40ms average and not as rugged as ST225's. Can't say I disagree. You however confused my assertion of better performace in terms of access times, with reliability. Its faster and more storage for less power and heat than two st225s. I never said it was more reliable. My expereince is that the st251 is less tolerrent of heat but if cooled it seems to do as well as most st225s (n=10k+). An experience with a customer in Austrailia using both 225s and 251s proved it. FYI neither like heat! <goal set by designers. If one wants faster seeking time, go voice <coil! I am dreaming wishing that ST251 drive was fitted with voice <coil instead of stepper and better motor design...sigh. true, but there are voice coil dries out there that do not hold up well too. It's a design trade made by some companies thinking the mechanics will never outlive the electronics. Much of it is process quality and handling. Most bad drives I've seen were from warm enviornments or dropped in their life. <reliably. Whole problem was that design of this ST251 spindle motor <is ill-designed to begin with in my opinion: Trying to fit all the <coils and one bearing INSIDE that spindle results in weak axle that <gets bent easily due to this design and the bearings failure rate on <this one is high too. It has a problem with gyroscopc precession, this makes it very susceptable to small shocks when running. The bearing does not like sideloads either. I agree it could have been better thought out. generally going to the smaller 3.5" was actaully an improvement in reliability for disks as it took less power to spin it and also move the heads. With less mass in the media the motors, bearings and all could be more rigid for it's size. The lower heat made bearing life better and also helped dimesional stability. < Recently I pulled this ST225 out of dumpter and fixed up the XT with < this hd and LLF'ed it. Gave whole thing to poor guy to use vax at < college. Still works. Most 225s were not fails, just retired due to small space available. FYI you get better results if the disk is LLF'd in situ and well warmed up. I must have 6 st225s of them all good and solid. I use them but, when I need speed I try to use others (quantum q540 30mb is nice!). <I tore down all kinds of drives from old and 3 years old types for <post-failure analysis which gave pretty good info for me. Same here, mostly limited to: St506, st412, st225, st251, micropolus1325 and quantum Q540, Q2190s and a few other dec disks. I have an st238 that refuses to die! <Snip! Tales of positive things about cooling... <Actually, all drives old and new benefits from cooling and boards <likes the flowing cooling air. Very true, vacuuming the vents from time to time also is a good thing. The big advantage of the newer drives is they consume less power therfore produce less damaging heat enhancing reliability. <We have no choice as many do not have AC so they ran in warm air <but if you are careful, enough fans to make hurriance out of it and <put a fan or two on monitor as well. My 17" needs two otherwise the <HOT transistor will pop again. ARRGgghhh. Tell me! I run microvaxen, Q-bus PDP-11s and s100 systems and 20 years of experince (and reliability studies) has taught me 90F is a hard ceiling and to shutdown with fans running if it gets hotter. I know this from my days at DEC in the mill when my office system (11/23) was fried by an AC failure, the area hit 98f and the 11 went down for the count. I've been pulling the plug regularly this year as we've had a lot of warm here in MA. ;-) Even without AC, every effort to remove heat is good! Even if you can't lower the ambient, keeping the guts closer to it will help greatly. My s100 crate has two 5" 120cfm fans pushing air up through the cage and it runs stone cold. The original layout had an 80cfm fan in the PS section pulling the air around and the boards ran HOT. It makes a racket but compared the the 8" drive and considering it's 20 years old... it still runs. Even my ba123 microvax, I replaced the fans to blow up as someone put them in backwards for less noise. You fight convection and lose cooling efficiencty. Since I have few spares I prefer to keep it going and tolerate a slight increase in noise. This is something to watch for on older systems where things may have been replaced but with the wrong (underrated) items. One last item. MAKE BACKUPS OF EVERYTHING. make duplicate backups and test the backups for integrity. Disks fail, and the cheapest insurance is a boot and backup package that works when you replace/repair the offending drive. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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TRS-80 Model I EI question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I'm trying to track-down a mod that Tandy on the Expansion Interface. On o <of my early EIs (SN# 000352), there was a 6-pin DIN modification, which <someone at one time told me was to correct some erratic signal problems. the mod was to bring out ras* cas* and MUX* with terminating resistors at one or both ends. These signals went through the EI cable but timing was critical at best. the later EIs derived cas* and mux* off of ras* inside rather than pipe them over. Generally speaking the mod was one where if it was mostly working it MIGHT help, sometimes it made it worse. There was another mod after that called the buffered EI cable...not a good idea either. Fixing the EI was the solution. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 02:45 PM 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote: > >One last item. MAKE BACKUPS OF EVERYTHING. make duplicate backups and test >the backups for integrity. Disks fail, and the cheapest insurance is a boot >and backup package that works when you replace/repair the offending drive. > > >Allison > This is why I like the 20 and 40 meg drives, I can back up key elements of the OS and configs, and restore them easily. as for 3.5 being more reliable, they are not, as I bought a Conner CFS-850A 850 meg, and it worked nicely for a year, then one day I am greeted with this error: BOOT DISK FAILURE, SYSTEM HALTED. it suffered a head crash, it would spin up normally, and when the controller tested the head actuator upon startup, there was a time when the head would seek to a location on the disk, and GRIND to a halt. the drive never worked again... I lost 700 megs of stuff, half unreplaceable (my fault, but I have no tape drive). fortunately the drive did have a 3 year warrenty, and a replacement was shipped, a 1.2 gig seagate ST-31276A. and here is another question: Is this going to last me more than a year? If Seagate made good drives in the past, will this new one live up to this, or is this drive chock full of corner cutting?

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by manney＠nwohio.com

> Most 225s were not fails, just retired due to small space available. FYI > you get better results if the disk is LLF'd in situ and well warmed up. That's doubly true for RLL encoded ST-506/412 drives. These drives should be LLF'd from time to time anyway. Most HD controllers have a built-in LLF routine which you can access via DEBUG.

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Museums

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> What should be on display considering: > 1) space limitation > 2) Mainframes, minis, micros > 3) What would most attract visitors > 4) What would most attract funding :) I'm afraid number 3 and number 4 will turn you into The Boston Computer Museum. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 8 months

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Some Commie questions

by manney＠nwohio.com

C64 Porer supplies... I have a box full of C64 P/S's ...I sell them for $18 plus S/H, 60 day warranty. Got cables and manuals and lotsa software, too. I don't have any 128's. Anyone wanna get rid of one cheap? Trade a slightly used Panasonic HHP for one :> > >The next question would be, is it worth trying to repair a C64's power > >supply? I got two of them yesterday, both powersupplies are dead. It > >looks like the 5V line is shorted to ground. I did get a copy of the Old & > > if it is potted, NOPE. some are unpotted and can be fixed. > > >New style users manuals, and a copy of "Troubleshooting and Repairing your > >Commodore 64" yesterday (I love Powells Technical Books!) so I've got some > >documentation. It's been too many years since I worked as an Electrician, > >so my skill level is pretty low (wasn't very high to begin with, which is > >why I switched to computers). > > > > I have these manuals too and I must say that it leaves no tern left unstoned. >

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-15 13:32:57 EDT, you write: << IMHO the ST-4096 FH 80 MG was the most reliable of this era. I spent over 600.00 for this drive new and used it for more than 20 years, and ended up selling it to a business for 50.00 to replace their dead st-251. >> hmm, my experience is just the opposite with this drive. I had 6 out 7 fail in less than 6 months back in 1990. The 4096 was just hideous. Kelly

28 years, 8 months

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PC-jr PSU (again!)

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

I dug out the PC-jr Techref (in order to look up details on the joystick), and I also looked at the PSU diagrams (page B-23 in my edition). We had a thread on this about a month ago, mainly about the external transformer unit which I don't have. Now, the input connector is a 3-pin thing. The centre pin is connected to shield ground, and then via L3 and L4 on the system board to logic ground. It's thus a DC connection to the system ground. The outside 2 pins go through a filter to the AC terminals of a bridge rectifier (CR7 - CR10) and the output of this goes (via the power switch) to a 1500uF 25V capacitor (C13). The -ve side of this capacitor is also connected to system ground. Thus, IMHO it makes no sense at all for the transformer to be centre-tapped with the tap going to pin 2 on the connector. If it was, the winding would be paritially shorted out by the diodes in the bridge rectifier, which would cause a lot of damage. Also, since C13 is only rated at 25V, the maximum input rms voltage is 25/sqrt(2) volts, which is a lot less than 34V. I therefore still believe that it's a plain 17V transformer between the 2 outer pins on the connector. Incidentally, the +12V output comes from a standard linear regulator, the +5V output from a switching regulator (Z2 is the control IC, Q2 the chopper, and L1 the switching inductor). The -12V output is supplied by a secondary winding on L1, which is then rectifier and smoothed. It's always possible that IBM used several versions of the PSU card, but the schematic in my Techref seems to agree with the one in my machine. -tony

28 years, 8 months

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IBM 5161??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> Haven't found a IBM cassette recorder either but I did pick up an IBM > joystick (had IBM logo on it and the word "Joystick") plus it had a funky > square connector which looked like it goes to the PCjr. I've dug out the PC-jr Techref, and there's some info in it on the joystick.

28 years, 8 months

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IBM 5161??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> (MS-DOS machines) since about 1983 and I have yet to see one. Another > thing I've been looking for without success is an IBM Cassette recorder > for the IBM PC cassette interface. I've heard they really do exist. Now that's something I've never seen. One interesting point is that the pinout of the cassette socket on the PC (although not on the PC-jr) is the same as that on a Tandy Model 1/3/4/Coco/etc It is rumoured that IBM intended you to go down to the local Radio Shack and buy one of their recorders + cable. -tony >

28 years, 8 months

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antique computer blowout (fwd)

by kjaeros＠u.washington.edu

Somebody in the Berkeley area might want to answer this call to duty.. I'd be thrilled to get the Sun 1 clone, but it'd cost several hundred dollars to ship up here. ok -r ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 15 Jul 1997 07:39:46 GMT From: Paul Leondis <leondis(a)slip.net> Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.workstation Subject: antique computer blowout I'm looking to get rid of some stuff, let me know what you think: I've got a huge amount of old S-100 bus stuff, almost all of it with technical manuals and software on diskette, that was working the last i knew. Most is Godbout stuff, some Morrow, some Dual, etc. Lots of 8" floppy drives and diskettes. I have most of the processor boards that were released by Godbout, including 8088, 8086, Z80, 8080, 68000, and i even have some of the National Semiconductor 32000 series cpus on S-100 cards. I have all the stuff like CP/M 68K with the associated assemblers and linkers etc. I also have a complete working [?] Sun I clone: yes, that's right, the first SUN design was public domain (did you know that?? At least that's the way i understand it...) and a company called Forward Technology made clones of that design. It has a 68K cpu running in a multibus one chassis, and i have lots of peripherals for it, including 9-track tape drive and 1/4" tape drives and disk controllers for several interfaces. I've got all the relevent software, inc. V7 unix and a mess of compilers. I have the (at the time) very high res monochrome monitors that went with the system. It's a real wrench for me to let go of this stuff, if you were in this field 10 or 15 years ago you know what i paid for some of the stuff. But i'm tired of hoarding it all. So, i will take the best offer i can get for all of the stuff. My reserve bid is $0, that is i will give it away if that is the best offer. I will probably be most moved by someone that may actually get some pleasure out of the stuff and esp. someone that would want to take the whole lot. There is a free city dump day coming up in my part of town on July 19th, so i'd like to settle the stuff by then so i can dispose of whatever is left at that time. Paul Leondis leondis(a)slip.net 510-649-0993 phone Berkeley, CA

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by thedm＠sunflower.com

IMHO the ST-4096 FH 80 MG was the most reliable of this era. I spent over 600.00 for this drive new and used it for more than 20 years, and ended up selling it to a business for 50.00 to replace their dead st-251. ---------- > From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers > Date: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 7:59 AM > > Allison, > > I gently disagree with this assertion that ST251 series is good than > ST225 series. I got too many dead ST251 series compared to ST225's > due to weaker structral design, pushed design by driving steppers too > hard byond 40ms average and not as rugged as ST225's. > I noticed the relationship between higher stepping rate and > terrible high failure rate on many hard drives such as ST251's, > Miniscribes and early 40meg western digital drives compared to > very slow stepping rate on most drives did last long time byond its > goal set by designers. If one wants faster seeking time, go voice > coil! I am dreaming wishing that ST251 drive was fitted with voice > coil instead of stepper and better motor design...sigh. > > Those ST225, ST250 are really best consumer's drives and ST251 series > might be a mistake at cutting corners well as ST277, ST296 are same > design. > > I wished that segate designed ST251 case > more rugged and used internal spindle motor with bearings on outside > and one screw on top of cover to stablize the motor from top. Then > this ST251's would be possible to be expanded to 100 or 120 size > reliably. Whole problem was that design of this ST251 spindle motor > is ill-designed to begin with in my opinion: Trying to fit all the > coils and one bearing INSIDE that spindle results in weak axle that > gets bent easily due to this design and the bearings failure rate on > this one is high too. > > Recently I pulled this ST225 out of dumpter and fixed > up the XT with this hd and LLF'ed it. Gave whole thing to poor guy > to use vax at college. Still works. > > I tore down all kinds of drives from old and 3 years old types for > post-failure analysis which gave pretty good info for me. > > > ->X-Sender: cerebral(a)michianatoday.com > Snip! > > > First off why bother withg the st225s? They are slow (st251s are > Snip! Tales of positive things about cooling... > > If the fan isn't noisy it isn't moving enough > > air past them, seriously! > Actually, all drives old and new benefits from cooling and boards > likes the flowing cooling air. > > > Also if they are in the smae box as all the > > other hardware they raise the other components temperature lowering their > > life. Heat is not your friend, this is why computer rooms are air > > conditioned an usuialy under 70 degrees F. > We have no choice as many does not have AC so they ran in warm air > but if you are careful, enough fans to make hurriance out of it and > put a fan or two on monitor as well. My 17" needs two otherwise the > HOT transistor will pop again. ARRGgghhh. > > > Allison >

28 years, 8 months

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DEC machine?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<PC500 <RCD31 < <The PC500 seems to be a display with a 5.25 inch floppy drive and some <electronics. It is mounted on top of the RCD31 unit which is in a pizza <box style case. Is this some sort of PC clone or maybe a DecMate? It's called a Vaxmate. what it is is a PC/AT clone(sorta) with a 8mhz 286 and most had 2meg of ram, wd1003 HD controller, an st225(rd31) or st251(rd32) and a Lance eithernet interface. The floppy is RX33 (1.2mb). These are nice machines and were aimed at running as a diskless workstation to vaxen on eithenet using PCSA and later Pathworks networking. It will run dos3.3 and 5.0 that I know of. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Typo was intended to be 10, but it was still undauntingly reliable. ---------- > From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers > Date: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 8:34 AM > > > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:07:09 -0500 > > Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > > From: "Bill Girnius" <thedm(a)sunflower.com> > > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > Subject: Re: What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers > > X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > > IMHO the ST-4096 FH 80 MG was the most reliable of this era. I spent over > > 600.00 for this drive new and used it for more than 20 years, and ended up > > selling it to a business for 50.00 to replace their dead st-251. > > Had to ask! Are you kidding? :) None 5.25" hds came out til after > '82 when lot of hds bigger than 8" was king. !!!! 20 yr old > ST4096? Impossible! More like 8 or 9 years. > > Seagate started on this design after 1986. Is this one of yours > that only have one board on bottom with only platter cover painted > black? That is last generation of this design which is finally > reliable. Earlier ones had teething problem of all kinds, no > kidding. All the way back to early first linear voice coil of ST4025 > between 1985 through '88. I pick them up all the time are almost > always dead due to bearing failures. These drives are best left > running horizontal right side up. > > Jason D.

28 years, 8 months

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DEC machine?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> The PC500 seems to be a display with a 5.25 inch floppy drive and some > electronics. It is mounted on top of the RCD31 unit which is in a pizza > box style case. Is this some sort of PC clone or maybe a DecMate? No, I suspect it's a VAXmate. The VAXmate is a 286 PC clone with some special DECness (Ethernet, included software to do DECnet). Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu PS: Rumor has it that the VAXstation 2000 folks were really pissed that the name 'VAXmate' was already taken...

28 years, 8 months

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ActionMax

by dastar＠crl.com

Picked up an ActionMax system from the thrift store today. I got it nearly complete, which is rare. Only missing the power supply (common 9V) and the VCR cable. This is a game that you hook to your VCR. It has a light gun and some sort of red either sensor or light (don't know yet). It came with a fighter combat VCR tape that you play in the VCR and I assume you use the gun to shoot at stuff on the screen. I'm sure someone else knows more about it than me. I haven't hooked it up yet. But I won't be able to do anything with it until I get the VCR cable. Anyone know how to rig one up? I also finally found a C16 but it has a broken key in the upper row :( These things apparently aren't too common in these parts as this is the first one I've ever seen. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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DEC machine?

by dbetz＠xlisper.mv.com

Does anyone know what the following Digital part numbers refer to? PC500 RCD31 The PC500 seems to be a display with a 5.25 inch floppy drive and some electronics. It is mounted on top of the RCD31 unit which is in a pizza box style case. Is this some sort of PC clone or maybe a DecMate? -- David Betz dbetz(a)xlisper.mv.com DavidBetz(a)aol.com (603) 472-2389

28 years, 8 months

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Altair Construction Manual

by rcini＠msn.com

Glenn: Thanks for the encouragement. It seems that at one time, one of us did try to contact TA to no avail. Should we try again?? I'd need to get the contact info >from the gent that tried it the first time, and I'll give it a second go-around. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking ---------- From: Glenn Roberts Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 10:23 AM To: Richard A. Cini, Jr. Cc: bcw(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Altair Construction Manual outstanding! i continue to applaud your efforts. i would think that all we need to proceed is a trail of evidence showing a "reasonable effort" to receive permission in this area. this can be a precedent-setting effort for publication of all kinds of useful historical information that might otherwise be lost forever. thanks again for blazing the trail! - glenn At 02:04 AM 7/13/97 UT, you wrote: >To all Altair fans... > > Well, my more-than-kind individual has provided me with the first of three >installments of the original Altair construction manual. He scanned all 102 >pages of the doc and made it into a PDF document -- almost 7mb in size. He is >also providing me with manuals for "the 88-4K, 88-ACR, and other stuff." I'm >not too familiar with all of the available options since the Altair was really >before my time, but it looks like the 4k memory board and other stuff. > > I'm not going to U/L the docs yet, first for size reasons, and second, until >we determine if we should try to contact Triumph-Adler... > >On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Jim Willing wrote: >>>So, it can be assumed that TA [Triumph-Adler of Germany] now >>owns all of >the rights to things MITS/Altair. I've tried to contact them >>on occasion on >related matters and have gotten no response of any >>kind to date. > >Anybody have any thoughts? >------------------------ >Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin Charter Member (6) > - MCPS Windows 95/Networking > > > +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts(a)mitre.org

28 years, 8 months

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book review

by enrico＠Brighton-UK.com

If you like the History of Personal Computers you might like to read my review of the Stan Veit book I just received from him. You will find it at: <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi/news/news73.htm> I know that the book has been published in 1993 but some of you (like me) might not have been aware of it till now. Stan has seen all the personal computer revolution from the inside as he opened the second computer store in the USA and the first on the East Coast (New York). Please forgive my spelling mistakes.... Thanks enrico -- ================================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> ================================================================ visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>

28 years, 8 months

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PAM computer, Convergent?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> wash them out throughly and disassembled and dried them well. Generally <> water is not that damaging. Just don't power them wet. < <I would remove anything high-voltage (front end of the power supply) and <BAKE them for quite some time (a day is nice). Water has a way of getting <into windings and comprimising the insulation (remember, in a transformer <the insulation is _thin_ - often paper and painted on varnish). This is a good point for the masses. I've done enough design(20+ years) so transformer design and the like are familiar to me. But then again I've cleaned boards in the dishwasher! Works great too. Also while In has I made a business of salvaging and repair marine gear that had been dunked in salt water which is very nasty to electronics. Part of the repair process was to very throughly wash out the unit in fresh water as no salt could be left (it's very hydroscopic) then repairing any damage if any. I've had marine equipment work better for this due to residual salt and dust accumulated being cleaned out! A good temp to bake at is just under 200f, it's slow but works and most plastics and semis are ok at this temp! Do monitor it though. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Classic Video Games

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Sounds like Mattel Electronic Football. My friends and I were the reason they stopped letting us take to school! damn...that was ages ago. ---------- > From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Classic Video Games > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 5:34 PM > > One comment, > > Is the display looks like it was using same LED display, "hair thin" > segments under the plastic lens? > > Jason D. > > Uncle Roger, etc: > > > > In regard to your post about the old hand held football game... I > > certainly do remember that game. There were actually a couple of different > > companies or stores that sold them. Radio Shack did have one, but I > > believe it was the SAME one that was manufactured by Coleco, or a similar > > company. I know up until a few years ago I had one... I'll have to look > > around. Just the other day, I was in a thrift store in Nebraska City, NE > > and they had a pile of 'old' handhelds. I didn't have time to look through > > it close, though.... but I'm darn sure they did have a football game or > > two though. I'll go back and check it out for you, though. Oh, while were > > on the subject of old football games.... how about those darned magnetic > > full-field table football games they used to make?? Do they still exist? > > > > Until next time, > > > > CORD > > > > //*=====================================================================++ > > || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || > > || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || > > || Classic computer software and hardware collector || > > || Autograph collector || > > ++=====================================================================*// > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > > > > > At 02:03 PM 7/11/97 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Depends on your definition of "videogame" (coin-operated, home unit, > > > computer, commercial, etc.) One of these should fit what you're looking for: > > > > > > When I was in high school, there was a precursor to the Lynx/Gameboy/etc. > > > crowd that was a football game. There were little red LED's(?) to represent > > > players, and you had up, down, and run buttons to control the quarter back. > > > It was very simplistic; you basically just ran the quarterback until you got > > > a touchdown (but I think you could do a fieldgoal?) Anyway, I think Radio > > > Shack sold one, but it may have been someone else. > > > > > > Anyone else remember this? Know what it was called? Got one you'd part with? > > > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > > > > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > > > sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." > > > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > > > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > > > > > > > > > > > >

28 years, 8 months

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Datamaster troubles

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Rich Cini wrote: > Well, I'm reviving my Datamaster. Last year, it worked fine (I at least > could get into Basic). This year, I can't even get it to boot. I have no > manuals for the darned thing, so I have no idea what the numbers on the screen > during the POST mean. I have one reverse-highlighted number: "09" and I'm > assuming that this is a hardware failure code. As promised, I have hunted through my various IBM System/23 (Datamaster) manuals, and found the meanings of the POD (Power-on Diagnostics) error codes. Here is a summary: FF} 00} CPU Failure (!) 01} 02 Failure of first ROS module (Read Only Storage module, i.e. ROM chip) 03 Reserved. If this is highlighted, panic. 04 Failure in bottom 16k of storage, or of storage controller 05 CRT (presumably actually monitor) or DMA failure 06} CRT interface 07} 08 Page registers 09-} ROS failure. There follows a little diagram to tell you which chip 19 } to replace. Yes, the diagram in the manual is made of text, too. ** TOP VIEW OF PLANAR SEEN FROM THE REAR ** _______________________________________________ | ====== ====== <-- NOT FOUND ON | | | 10 | | 11 | <-- SOME EARLY | | =3=40= =3=60= <-- MACHINES | | | | ====== ====== | | | 19 | | 0D | | | =7=60= =1=60= | | *********************** | | =PATCH= ====== * PHYSICAL LOCATION * | | | 18 | | 0C | * OF ROS MODULES * | | =7=40== =1=40= * FOR EACH ERROR CODE * | | *********************** | | ====== ====== | | | 17 | | 0B | -KEY- | | =6=60= =0=60= ====== | | | XX | | | ====== ====== =Y=ZZ= | | | 16 | | 0A | XX=POD ERROR CODE | | =6=40= =0=40= Y=ROS PAGE VALUE | | ZZ=HIGH ORDER BYTE OF | | ====== ====== FIRST ADDRESS IN | | | 15 | | 09 | ROS MODULE. | | =5=60= =0=20= | | ---(CABLE)-------------- | | ====== ====== | ====== | | | | 14 | | 02 | | | 09 | CO-PLANAR | | | =5=40= =0=00= | =0=20= BOARD. | | | | (FOUND ON | | | ====== | ====== SOME EARLY | | | | 13 | | | 10 | MACHINES.) | | | =4=60= | =3=40= | | | | | | | ====== | ====== | | | | 12 | | | 11 | | | | =4=40= | =3=60= | | | ------------------------ | ----------------------------------------------- 1A-} ROS failure on feature card 26 } 27 ROS failure on 2nd printer card 28} ROS failure on feature card 29} 2A-} RAM failure. Table (which I shan't include) of how codes 30 } relate to different sizes of machine. 31 RAM page access failure 32 DMA page register failure 33 Interrupt controller failure 34 Timer interrupt failure 35 Keyboard error. If flashing, keyboard controller. If not flashing, you pressed a key at the wrong moment :-) 36 Printer failure 37 Printer not switched on 38 Diskette attachment failure 39 24 volt rail not reading 24 volts 3A-} belong to add-ons not to the system. I didn't bring the FE } relevant manual pages. General rules for interpretation: Flashing inverse video = fatal error. Non-flashing inverse video = error. Press the Error-reset key and let the machine finish booting. Then run the diagnostics dikette, I suppose. To summarise, it appears you have a dud ROM chip. I imagine the solution is to copy a ROM chip from another Datamaster. If necessary, I can arrange to copy mine, but I don't know off-hand what sort of chips they are. I would also suggest that, unless you too are in England, logistics of getting the chip to you might be hard... Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk

28 years, 8 months

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Some Commie questions

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >The C=128 does not need any kind of bootfloppy, it will start up in C=128 mode. if you type GO64, it reverts to a C=64 kernal.< You can also hold down the Commodore key (looks like "C=" in the lower lefthand corner) while you turn it on, and it will come up in 64 mode. > the 128 has RF output accessable from the RCA jack, a 5 pin DIN video connector that provides composite, or seperated video plus sound.< The 128 has an 8-pin DIN connector, as do the later 64s. A 5-pin cable will work, but for the best possible separated composite picture, an 8-pin cable will do better. >also there is a RGB 9 pin DSUB connector so you can use ANY CGA monitor for 80 col. for the 1702, you need a video cable(looks like you have this), and use the separated mode for sharper graphics.< The 1702 is composite only. Later Commodore monitors, like the 1902, were composite/RGB switchable. However, pin 7 of the 9-pin 128 video connector puts out a monochrome composite signal, which (with your own hacked cable) allows you to view the 128's 80-column signal (normally viewable only with an RGB monitor) on a composite monitor like the 1702. >Nope. unless you want to run CPM< Or GEOS, which is kinda like Windows. Some of the more advanced Commodore software (like the fax program) runs under GEOS. >>The next question would be, is it worth trying to repair a C64's power supply? I got two of them yesterday, both powersupplies are dead. It looks like the 5V line is shorted to ground. << >if it is potted, NOPE. some are unpotted and can be fixed.< The 64 power supply isn't going to do him much good on a 128; the power supplies have different connectors, and the 64 supplies aren't as strong as the 128 supplies. As to potted supplies, I have fixed one or two; some have fuses up close to the top of the gunk, and it is possible to scrape away enough of the gunk on each end to bypass the fuse if that is the problem. But as to whether it is worth the effort, I'd agree-- usually it isn't. I'm not sure what they pot it with, but starships could use it for deflector shields! Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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C16

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by Sam: >I also finally found a C16 but it has a broken key in the upper row :( These things apparently aren't too common in these parts as this is the first one I've ever seen.< If the unit powers up, you're ahead of the game. The video chip, called the TED, is weak in those units, and probably 1 our of every two you'll find has a bad TED chip. By the way, the same TED is in the Plus/4, so if need by the chip can be swapped from unit to the other. All those C16s with bad TED chips means there are more than a few non-working units out there that could be a part donor for your keyboard. If fact, if you can't search around and find, drop me a note and I'm sure I can. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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IEEE 488

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message from: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)crl.com> >Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Commodore PET's used IEEE-488 for disk drives, as well as lab stuff. I'm pretty sure I've got an IEEE-488 interface for the VIC-20 around somewhere. < Yep. Commodore used it on the full PET/CBM line for disk drives, printers, and whatever else you wanted to attach. That was one reason PETs were fairly popular in labs in those days-- easy to plug in test equipment. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

Opps, My name is TJ Plajer, and recently reinstalled the mailer and forgot to add a space for some reason..... <G> I did follow your tips, and the drives are in a XT case and there are no bezels for the drives. there is good air flow, just they seem to run this hot. I never ran these drives before and have no idea how hot they should be. as for power cycling, they get NONE. this system has been running for 2 months continous, without any powerdowns since they were installed, so for 2 months now, the thermal stability has (hopefully) stayed the same. thanx

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->X-Sender: cerebral(a)michianatoday.com ->Hello there, I run a fileserver that has 2 ST-225 20 meg drives, and 1 ->420 meg IDE drive, this system runs 24/7, and has been running for 2 mo ->continuous now. My question is what is the life expectancy of these dri ->it is often said that the ST-225 series are not reliable, however they ->continue to run strong. also these things run so hot that you can fry a First off why bother withg the st225s? They are slow (st251s are faster!) and their reliability is at best ok. FYI: st225s live far longer if they are cooled. If the fan isn't noisy it isn't moving enough air past them, seriously! Also if they are in the smae box as all the other hardware they raise the other components temperature lowering their life. Heat is not your friend, this is why computer rooms are air conditioned an usuialy under 70 degrees F. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Scrapyards (was: PAM computer, Convergent?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->I have seen many gems from DEC, mostly mid-1970s PDP-11s and early VAXe ->I have yet to see any 12, 18, or 36 bit stuff from them, however. The o there is a reason... PDP-8s were the most prolific and the production nubers were in teh low tens of thousands and many still serve. The 18bit stuff were few to start with and hard as hell to expand so they faded away. the 36bit stuff were also few but interesting. Still many made it to the bone yard for lack of takers years back. Some of the less common machines like the PDP/LINK-12s and PDP-15s were only made in the thousands. PDP-11/23s are however like flies but, one complete with software (or better diags) and clean are scarce. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Some Commie questions

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 02:11 PM 7/13/97 -0800, you wrote: >My main question is on the C= 128, along with all the other stuff I picked >up, I got a Commodore 1702 monitor, and a couple 1541 drives. I've got the >drive attached, and the monitor hooked up via a RF cable (I guess that's >what it's called) through the front connection (This works for the Amiga >500 I also got yesterday). Anyway, I power the thing on, it "buzzes" the >drive like it's expecting to find something, and I don't get anything on >the display. The C=128 does not need any kind of bootfloppy, it will start up in C=128 mode. if you type GO64, it reverts to a C=64 kernal. and if you want to run CPM, then you need a CPM boot disk, however it is not required to run the machine. this is what I liked about the 128, 3 mahcines in 1! :) for your monitor, the 128 has RF output accessable from the RCA jack, a 5 pin DIN video connector that provides composite, or seperated video plus sound. also there is a RGB 9 pin DSUB connector so you can use ANY CGA monitor for 80 col. for the 1702, you need a video cable(looks like you have this), and use the separated mode for sharper graphics. the buzzing you hear is because you have connected the video out RCA jack to the audio in. You should have 5 phono plugs on the end of the video cable, and a din plug on the other. just experament with all the plugs till it works. the video plug colors usually (but not always) YELLOW - sound RED Video chroma WHITE video Luminace BLACK SOUND GRAY Composite video each manufacturer used different color chemes, and this might be wrong for other cables than mine. also the 1702 has a front panel switch that has 3 positions: 1- monochrome this just makes everything green used for composite video 2- Composite video this is just the standard video in, you can hook your VCR to it for a nice sharp TV!! 3- seperated - this uses seperate lines to feed the video, and this has the best quality >I remember that the C64's like the VIC-20 would drop you at the prompt even >if you had nothing attached, and didn't need any kind of boot floppies. Do >I need some kind of boot disk for this beast? Nope. unless you want to run CPM >I gather a CGA monitor will work, so I guess I should dig out one of the >old Mono-CGA monitors I've got in storage. shore will. > >The next question would be, is it worth trying to repair a C64's power >supply? I got two of them yesterday, both powersupplies are dead. It >looks like the 5V line is shorted to ground. I did get a copy of the Old & if it is potted, NOPE. some are unpotted and can be fixed. >New style users manuals, and a copy of "Troubleshooting and Repairing your >Commodore 64" yesterday (I love Powells Technical Books!) so I've got some >documentation. It's been too many years since I worked as an Electrician, >so my skill level is pretty low (wasn't very high to begin with, which is >why I switched to computers). > I have these manuals too and I must say that it leaves no tern left unstoned.

28 years, 8 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 113

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Some Commie questions > My main question is on the C= 128, along with all the other stuff I picked > up, I got a Commodore 1702 monitor (good composite/Split Composite monitor, ususally JVC or Toshiba Guts) > and a couple 1541 drives. I've got the > drive attached, and the monitor hooked up via a RF cable (I guess that's > what it's called) >through the front connection (This works for the Amiga 500 I also got yesterday). The jack on the front is RF output. > Anyway, I power the thing on, it "buzzes" the drive like it's expecting to find something, > and I don't get anything on the display. When a 128 boots up it will attempt to 'boot' whatever disk is in the drive. A boot disk isn't necessary unless you want to use the CP/M mode of the 128. To boot the 128 into 64 mode hold down the Commodore ket as you turn it on, release and you will be rewarded with a 64 bluescreen. Otherwise it will boot into 128 mode, either 40 or 80 columns depending how you have the 'columns' key locked. > I remember that the C64's like the VIC-20 would drop you at the prompt even > if you had nothing attached, and didn't need any kind of boot floppies. Do > I need some kind of boot disk for this beast? Only for CP/M.. It's a good version too! > I gather a CGA monitor will work, so I guess I should dig out one of the > old Mono-CGA monitors I've got in storage. Only in 80 column mode, the 128 has an RGBI port for that. If you have no color RGBI monitors you can always fasion a composite monochome cable by connecting to pin 7 (monochrome) and pin 1 or 2 (ground) to an RCA plug, that pin was designed for monochome composite output. The best (low cost) configuration is to have the 128 hooked up to the 1702, with the 40 column split/composite & audio plugged into the back and the monochrome 80 columns in the front. The quality of video using a proper (split composite) video cable in the back of the 1702 is excellent, I highly recommend it! > The next question would be, is it worth trying to repair a C64's power > supply? No. Unless you like chipping away Epoxy resin. > I got two of them yesterday, both powersupplies are dead. It > looks like the 5V line is shorted to ground. I did get a copy of the Old & > New style users manuals, and a copy of "Troubleshooting and Repairing your > Commodore 64" yesterday (I love Powells Technical Books!) so I've got some > documentation. It's been too many years since I worked as an Electrician, > so my skill level is pretty low (wasn't very high to begin with, which is > why I switched to computers). > Then there is the Amiga 500. About a month ago, I'd picked up a copy of > "Bards Tale" for the Amiga, so I know it works. Problem is I don't have a > copy of the two floppies that came with the computer originally (also got > the manual for this at Powells). I think I've got the Kickstart 1.2 ROMs > (it has a 1.2 on the screen when asking for the Workbench disk). That is Kickstart 1.2 allright. Kickstart 1.3 or later would be better because they have hard drive autoboot coding and 2.0+ is more compatible with recent Amiga software. I have the 1.2 Workbench and Extras Disk around here somewhere... :) > Where can > I get the disks? I don't suppose it's like the Apple IIgs software that > you can now download. The hard part would be getting it on the right format of floppy... > The second Amiga question would be, is it possible to hook up Apple IIgs, > or Macintosh 3 1/2" external floppy drive with a Amiga? I somehow doubt > it, but... Yes and no... Yes, there are plans for hooking up Macintosh 3.5" floppy drives to the Amiga, BUT, they are used only for the Macintosh Emulators for the Amiga (BTW the Amiga 500 can run a Mac Plus Emulator at just about speed.) > Thanks, > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | >-- Recap, I have the Amiga Disks and also have a split-composite cable to hook the 128 to the 1701 (for the best 40 column output). -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 09:35 PM 7/12/97 +0000, you wrote: >> >Yes, I was experimenting with lots of hds/models/brands which I got >some experience with them. If you have any questions about hds, >floppy drives, fire yours to me. :) > >Jason D. > Hello there, I run a fileserver that has 2 ST-225 20 meg drives, and 1 NEC 420 meg IDE drive, this system runs 24/7, and has been running for 2 months continuous now. My question is what is the life expectancy of these drives, it is often said that the ST-225 series are not reliable, however they continue to run strong. also these things run so hot that you can fry an egg on it! :)

28 years, 8 months

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IBM 5161??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.970714101129.4470B-100000(a)crl5.crl.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > I saw an interesting relic in the thrift store the other day...and IBM PC > "Expansion Chassis" (I believe that's what it was called). It was > basically an IBM PC case with two full height hard drives instead of > floppy drives. It's model number was 5161 (if I recall correctly). > Didn't bother with it, even though it is kinda unique. Ah yes, the 5161... It is/was a device for adding 6 more slots to a PC, PC/XT or Portable-PC (basically any of the 8-bit bus system). The 5161 itself was a PC/XT cabinet with an 8-slot passive backplane (OK, there was a 14.? MHz oscillator in there) and a standard PSU. There were a pair of cards (the 'extender' and the 'receiver') and a 62 pin cable that linked them. You put the extender into one slot of the 'host' system, the 'receiver' into the passive backplane, and linked them together. You could put I/O or memory cards (although not graphics cards AFAIK) into the remaining slots of the 5161. One problem with buying one of these second-hand is that the extender card (and often the cable) is almost always missing - it's been left in the host. And that card is difficult to find. Schematics, etc are in Volume one of the Options and Adapters TechRef. > Sam -tony

28 years, 8 months

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HP 9836, HP 86 ??

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:45 PM 7/13/97 GMT, you wrote: >GPIB = General-Purpose Interface Bus. Aka IEEE-488, and very similar to >HPIB (= Hewlett-Packard Interface bus). HP were the company who designed it, >but it turns up on all sorts of machines. It's *the* bus used for disk drives, tape drives, printers, etc. for classic (and, to a lesser extent, spectrum) HP 3000 minicomputers. Trust me, I've got a basement full of 'em. (Bought my 3000 to use -- it's what I do for a living.) Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Commodore PET's used IEEE-488 for disk drives, as well as lab stuff. I'm pretty sure I've got an IEEE-488 interface for the VIC-20 around somewhere. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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Some Commie questions

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 02:11 PM 7/13/97 -0800, you wrote: >up, I got a Commodore 1702 monitor, and a couple 1541 drives. I've got the >drive attached, and the monitor hooked up via a RF cable (I guess that's >what it's called) through the front connection (This works for the Amiga The c1702 is a very nice monitor. On the back is (IIRC) RGB connectors (or composite? or something like that) but on the front is standard video and audio in. As in, TV. If you hook up a VCR (with a tuner or cable connection), you've got yourself a very nice TV. A few years back, I set up a VCR and 1702 combo on one of those hospital tables for my dad and he spent his time there watching movies (actually, videos of a local teen theatre group -- <http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/yptmtc/>). It makes for a very compact setup. I would love to find one or two for <$10 and use them for exactly that. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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Classic Video Games

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 10:34 PM 7/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >Is the display looks like it was using same LED display, "hair thin" >segments under the plastic lens? That would fit with what I remember. If all the lights were lit up, it would look a lot like this: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Only a little closer, vertically. The lights really looked like little red hyphens. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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Classic Video Games

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 09:24 PM 7/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >In regard to your post about the old hand held football game... I [...] >believe it was the SAME one that was manufactured by Coleco, or a similar I think the one I had was a Coleco or somebody like that, but I could be wrong. >around. Just the other day, I was in a thrift store in Nebraska City, NE >and they had a pile of 'old' handhelds. I didn't have time to look through >it close, though.... but I'm darn sure they did have a football game or >two though. I'll go back and check it out for you, though. Oh, while were That would be fantastic! I don't know what they sell for now, but I can't imagine it would be bank breaking. Thanks! >on the subject of old football games.... how about those darned magnetic >full-field table football games they used to make?? Do they still exist? I know what you mean, but I never had one. I doubt they still make them; Everyone plays Joe Blow Football '97 on the Super Nintendo nowadays. (My girlfriend's brother does anyway.) I can't even say I've seen one recently. The Musee Mechanique at the Cliff House here in San Francisco probably has one (and other, even older games too!) If you're ever in the City and like that sort of thing, definitely stop in. They have modern games as well as old stuff. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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TRS-80 Model I EI question

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: I'm trying to track-down a mod that Tandy on the Expansion Interface. On one of my early EIs (SN# 000352), there was a 6-pin DIN modification, which someone at one time told me was to correct some erratic signal problems. So, I called Tandy and ordered the EI service manual, but it only applies to the "new" PCB version (units with SNs 035000 or greater). Does anyone have the schematics to the original one and can check pin functions?? Internally, the board is labelled "1700077-C", does not have the green conformal coating, and has the RAM chips right next to the power supply section. Mod 1 is on IC Z17 (LS157), pins 1 and 8 (GND) Mod 2 is on IC Z24 (LS32), pins 4 and 7 (GND) Mod 3 is on IC Z22 (LS367), pins 12 and 8 (GND) Matching the old ICs and pin numbers to the new schematics produces the following: Mod 1 is for the MMUX line, Mod 2 is for WR* and Mod 3 is for INT* Can anyone verify this? ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

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HHC

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by Sam: >I figure total shipping costs will be $4 for a single unit, $5 for a couple, etc. Not sure exactly. I realize the shipping costs may not be what some people bargained for so at this point I would ask that if you want to or need to back out, please do it soon. I am going to try and negotiate a lump sum for the total units that will hopefully bring the cost per unit to $7. That's what I'm shooting for.< I don't know why anyone in their right mind would back out. You said originally $10 per unit, and if the above figures work out, that would end up $12 for a single unit delivered; not bad at all. In fact, for the folks who asked for two, the above figures would product $19 delivered, CHEAPER than you originally said. Still, you're left doing an awful lot of packaging, etc. You might at least want to build in $1-$2 a unit "profit" just to compensate for all your time and effort. On 400 units, that would at least get you a few nice dinners! Please accept our thanks for all your work on this. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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Modem Collection

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-14 11:38:57 EDT, you write: actually, i've heard that novation applecat modem was desired by the hacker/phone phreak crowd because of it's abilities. i think it could emulate the dialing tones and do dtmf to make free phone calls. anyone have any correct or detailed info about this? << >> I'm not doing it on purpose, but I find myself unable to let go of this >> Novation CAT modem that I dredged up a few years ago... > >Hmm; I just picked one of these up with an incomplete Apple ][plus system >that I haven't yet had time to muck with, short of cleaning it up a bit. >What's special about it? Absolutely nothing. It's a standard 300 baud modem. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu >> david

28 years, 8 months

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Western Digital Host Adaptors

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->I'm pretty sure that these aren't host adapters; I think they're ->controllers in the traditional SCSI sense. (i.e. you sandwich ->them between the SCSI bus and a MFM or ESDI drive.) -> ->> One is a WD-1000-05, one's a WD-1000-50, and a WD-1000-TB1. If ->> anyone has docs for these (or can tell me where to get them) I would ->> really appreciate it. Tim, They may be host adaptors depending on the suffix they can be host or SASI (pre-scsi). I know the 1002-05/hdo is host. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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(Fwd)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->Here's a real classic for ya. I'd have killed for a system like ->this one, but married life, no room, no time, blah blah blah . . . ->Anyone have a use for a ->Motorola 6800 Exorcisor ->System? This is a real I have the granmother to that the 6800D1 board. If it has a 6809 it's not as old as one with a 6800! Delopment systems are real collectable as they are fewer in numbers. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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GPIB in chemical labs (adding to Re: HP 9836, HP 86)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 23:45 13/07/97 GMT, you wrote: >>GPIB = General-Purpose Interface Bus. Aka IEEE-488, and very similar to >HPIB (= Hewlett-Packard Interface bus). HP were the company who designed it, >but it turns up on all sorts of machines. > >It's an 8-bit parallel interface using a 24 pin connector. 8 pins are ground, >8 are data, 3 are handshake, and 5 are bus control/management. It was >originally designed to link up lab equipment (DVMs, counters, digital 'scopes, But also for interfacing Analytical Instruments (Spectrophotometers, Gas Chromatography etc.) for chemical laboratory, where HP is still one of the most important developing company, and where GPIB is still used. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 8 months

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IBM 5161??

by dastar＠crl.com

I saw an interesting relic in the thrift store the other day...and IBM PC "Expansion Chassis" (I believe that's what it was called). It was basically an IBM PC case with two full height hard drives instead of floppy drives. It's model number was 5161 (if I recall correctly). Didn't bother with it, even though it is kinda unique. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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PAM computer, Convergent?

by dastar＠crl.com

Ok, saw three things of interest today. First, I saw a set of boxes from some Scottish company. One was called the PAM computer and simply had some red LED displays on the front to display numbers. Another was FINANCIAL ANALYSER and another still was, oh, forgot. Weird. Anyone ever heard about these? They seemed to be boxes for doing calculations, or displaying results of formulas? Also saw and picked up this Convergent computer thingy. Pretty cool. It has modules that plug together. One is the PROCESSOR module, then there's the EXPANSION DISK module. The boxes which make up this "computer" fit together via this bus and then there's this lever you use to lock the boxes together. Seems I forgot to pickup the Processor module (paid for it but forgot to get it). I also saw some dumb terminals for this system at a thrift shop (they are gone now). Anyone have any info on this? Lastly, I saw this pretty awesome looking Morrow computer which seemed to be of a portable ilk. At first when I saw it from afar it looked like one of those phony props you see in furniture stores. When I got up close I realized it was an actual computer with this funky wide screen built in (it was about 4" high by 8" wide) and two floppy disks. The proprietor of the place I was at made me put it back because apparently it has all the store's financial records back a few years. I offered to copy all the data off for him and pay him good for it but he flat-out refused. Very frustrating. I plan on bugging him about it everytime I go back. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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F8 chip was Video Brain

by allisonp＠world.std.com

:> Technology PMOS NMOS This is wrong. both are N-channel silicone gate NMOS. :> # of Instructions 69 70 What this doesn't tell is that the F8 had a very weak instruction set. doing something like xoring a byte was tedious to say the least. The 8080 instruction set was far more general. The F8 was aimed at the market that the 8048 and 8051 would later dominate, IE: single chip MPUs of general application. Also april '78 KILOBAUD had an article speculating on how to use a VB system as a cheap graphic peripheral. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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help with NCR 1203-6000?

by rws＠ais.net

I may have a chance to get a NCR Model 1203-6000 (it's about one step >from abandonment). It appears to work and run both CP/M-80 and MS-DOS. On the serial number sticker it lists its manufacturer as NCR GmbH- am I to assume this may mean it is of German origin? My questions are, has anybody heard of this machine? Does anyone have any info on it? Is it even a classic? Thanks, Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net

28 years, 8 months

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PAM computer, Convergent?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> writes: > Lastly, I saw this pretty awesome looking Morrow computer which seemed to > be of a portable ilk. At first when I saw it from afar it looked like > one of those phony props you see in furniture stores. When I got up > close I realized it was an actual computer with this funky wide screen > built in (it was about 4" high by 8" wide) and two floppy disks. A Morrow Pivot. Portable, battery-operated MS-DOS machine; I'm not sure how IBM-compatible it is. Made by Vadem in Milpitas, OEMd by Morrow as the Pivot, Zenith as something (think they sold a bunch to the IRS), Osborne as the Osborne 3. Keep your eyes open, there are others out there. I've seen one at Halted in Santa Clara but as usual for Halted they were asking a bogus price for it, something like $100. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 8 months

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Datamaster troubles

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Rich Cini wrote: > My Datamaster Troubles... > Well, I'm reviving my Datamaster. Last year, it worked fine (I at least > could get into Basic). This year, I can't even get it to boot. I have no > manuals for the darned thing, so I have no idea what the numbers on the screen > during the POST mean. I have one reverse-highlighted number: "09" and I'm > assuming that this is a hardware failure code. > I have the "Diagnostic" diskette, but since I think that the floppies are > not working (or the diskette is now bad), it's useless. I must admit, I haven't booted mine recently. It is just about visible under the pile of junk in that part of my computer room... I can, however, easily get at the manuals. The service manual is not much use, I'm afraid, but I can look up the diagnostic codes for you. I shall try and do this this evening, and post it tomorrow, but I can't promise anything. Philip.

28 years, 8 months

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He shoots! He Boots! Heath Lives!

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Whilst in a self-induced trance, Stacy C. Morang happened to blather: >On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: >> H-120-1. I'm assuming this is the model number. >It is. Uh... Update, folks! (and I gotta name this thing now... how about "Heather"... 8-) Get it?!? It boots! Did I mention that it came with one floppy disk stuck in the bottom drive? This floppy was a boot floppy! And it still works! Joy! ;-) >> Something tickled in my brain about those floppies, so as I lumbered around >> in the dark in my newly-begun clean-ish basement (Eeeeek!) I found my old >> non-working Atari 810 disk drive... and the mechs looked almost exact! >> Would these happen to be the same mechanically, would anyone know? > >Probably not, the Z (or H) used standard SA-455? 360K ibm pc style drives You're right, but they seem to format to only 320K (8 sectors/track, not 9) with the DOS I do have, which is listed in the stats of the machine I listed below... The broken drive *does* work! It's only the door that's broken, so I sacrificed my Atari 810 (which was dead anyway) and the garage door from it is exact! Yiippee! >Top, I think. (I have one, but I only got it for the Winchester drive >card). Whaddya did with the rest? A few spare parts might be nice (or a color tube, if yours had it... ;-) >That is the monitor rom, and certain keys should do something more >interesting, like > >C - color bars (if you have color video, otherwise b&w bars) >B - boot prompt, pressing the right combo of numbers and fkeys selects >the boot drive. > >D - dump memory I don't doubt your memory, but I think this is a (prolly earlier) version of the monitor rom... specs to follow. I fat-fingered *all* the keys on it, and here's what works: B -- boots. Accepts parameters of: 0, 1, 2, 3, and that tells it what floppy to boot from. Plain B assumes floppy 0, which is top. Thanks! All else beeps with invalid parameter, except "S", which appears to do nothing. Would this be boot from the serial port, perchance? V -- Version of the monitor rom, which is Version 1.02. Nothing else worked... >It will boot off of CP/M, MP/M, UCSD P-System, Concurrent CP/M, MS-DOS >and others. If you find a generic version 1 or maybe 2 ms-dos it might >boot, pc specific PC dos won't. This thing came with a Version 1 Dos... here's the specs of the boot: Z-DOS / MS-DOS BIOS Release 1.00 Version 1.02 Z-DOS / MS-DOS Release 1.00 Version 1.25 (C)Copyright 1982, Zenith Data Systems Z-DOS / MS-DOS Command Release 1.00 Version 1.19 >The machine has an 8088 and an 8085 processor, and uses the appropriate >one for the os in question. I've pulled 'er apart to fix the floppy, and to clean the keyboard & all. Sure enough, it has a NEC 8085A plastic, and an Intel 8088 like-eprom-whatever-you-call-it case. It presently has 128K RAM in it! Questions: 1. Whilst it's all apart, does anyone want me to snap pictures? I can... 2. How high can this rascal go in memory? I located 3 banks (9 each -- parity) of 64kx1 300ns DRAM, two of which are populated. Mathmatically, that works to: 128K RAM. The third bank is empty. Can I pop in 9 more chips without setting any jumpers/dipswitches? How about bigger DRAMS? (prolly not... but it's worth an ask!) Still, 192K is still pretty good for a machine from '82! (also, on the question of jumpers... anyone have a tech-like manual for this thing I could get a copy of... or at least a copy of the important pages?) 3. The video board which is based on the Motorola 68A45P video chip, presently has 64K onboard for *just* the green section of the board. This rascal can handle 192K Video Memory!!! Funky! ;^> (that is, if I'm reading the boards right.... but CHKDSK doesn't return the added video memory, so that'd seem correct.) Does the board support any form of graphics? I tried the standard basic commands (ZBasic was on the floppy) but it seemed only to work in text. For this thing having 2 Intel-based processors, I'm surprised with the amount of Motorola logic in this rascal! Prolly a 3rd of it is Moto, including the 74 series chips! All of the important support chips, like the video processor, the PIA's & UARTS, and all that jazz seem to be Moto. Well folks, I havta say: This is one *sweet* machine! :-) >I'm not sure what the licensing requirements are, however, I do have >several OS's for the machine - I'm sure something can be worked out. Did Heath/Zenith bundle an OS with the disk systems? If so, wouldn't I own a license to own a copy of the included OS, as I own the machine? I'm not sure how stuff like that works, especially on the old stuff. >You're welcome, pity I'm so far behind in the mail... >-stacy No prob... I'm behind as well, as you can plainly see! >So long, and keep your stick on the ice. Ohhh, brrrr! I hope yer' talkin' Hockey!!! ;^> Thanks again, and have a good weekend! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.

28 years, 8 months

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Western Digital Host Adaptors

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

>> I have a few WD-1000 host adaptors, and I need to get some >> information about them. Western Dig. is of not much help-- their web >> site dosen't carry docs from that far back. >> >> I used to have a chart delineating what controller card was what, but >> I've since lost it. There aren't PeeCee host adaptors; rather they >> are the same footprint as a 5.25' floppy drive (actually, one is >> bigger). > >I'm pretty sure that these aren't host adapters; I think they're >controllers in the traditional SCSI sense. (i.e. you sandwich >them between the SCSI bus and a MFM or ESDI drive.) Somewhere I have docs on the WD1002-05 which, IIRC, has a WD1000-compatible hardware interface. The exception is that the WD1000 supplies a WAIT signal and the WD1002 doesn't. "The WD1002-05 has been designed to interface to a Host processor via a parallel port or CPU bus configurations. The specific signals are compatible with the WD1000/WD1001 series of Winchester-only controller boards. With the inclusion of the WD1015, the previous WAIT signal is no longer necessary, but has been provided for compatability; status information is always available to the Host for monitoring command progress. When the Busy bit is set, no other status bits are valid." The host connector is a 40 pin connector. Of this, all even pins are grounds. The other pins are: 1 -15 : DAL0 through DAL7 respectively 17-21 : A0 through A2, respectively 23 : CS 25 : WE 27 : RE 29 : Pulled up on the WD1002; this is probably WAIT on the 1000. 31, 33: Not connected 35 : Interrupt request 37 : DMA request 39 : Reset I suspect the interrupt request, DMA request, and Reset ar all asserted high; the photocopied manual section I have doesn't make this clear. The WD1002 is programmed like an IDE controller with an 8-bit data register. I suspect the WD1000 is as well. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 8 months

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Bigger problem with VMS

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> As I have no username/password, I can't shut it down right! > How do I shut down VMS without losing the harddisk? > Can I just power it off? OK, a few things about VMS. To break into VMS, boot it /1 like this: >>> b/1 It will give you a SYSBOOT> prompt, at which time you tell it to use the console for the startup command file: SYSBOOT> set/start=opa0: SYSBOOT> continue Then it'll boot farther and give you a $ prompt. What I usually do here is this: $ spawn <<< spawning SYSTEM_1 message >> $ @sys$system:startup This executes the startup file. When the startup file exits, you get the $ prompt back. At that point, you can: $ spawn $ set def sys$system: $ mc authorize UAF> set system/password=whatever UAF> ^Z $ At this point, you can either shut the system down: $ @sys$system:shutdown [[[ you can punch return to all the questions ]]] and power cycle the system or just hit the power switch. Unlike Unix, VMS doesn't eat the disk if the power goes out unexpectedly; normally, you'll want to shut it down with the shutdown command, though (what happens if any files are open is that blocks allocated to those files are marked as allocated in the bitmap but not recorded as belonging to those files in the directory; if you just turn the power off, you'll essentially lose space on the mounted disks that have open files). The next time you boot, the system will remember that it wants to use the console as the startup command file, so you'll have to do the "conversational boot" again and set it back: >>> b/1 SYSBOOT> set/start=sys$system:startup.com SYSBOOT> continue Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 8 months

1
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HHC UPDATE

by josh＠netins.net

>dastar(a)crl.com could you bump my order down to two? Thanks! Josh M. Nutzman +----------------------------------------------+ |"Life is like a river, you go with the flow...| | but in the end you usually end up dammed." | | -The Red Green Show | +----------------------------------------------+

28 years, 8 months

1
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Modem Collection

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

>On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Roger Ivie wrote: > >> I'm not doing it on purpose, but I find myself unable to let go of this >> Novation CAT modem that I dredged up a few years ago... > >Hmm; I just picked one of these up with an incomplete Apple ][plus system >that I haven't yet had time to muck with, short of cleaning it up a bit. >What's special about it? Absolutely nothing. It's a standard 300 baud modem. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 8 months

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Modem Collection

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> > > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > > > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. > > > > I'm not doing it on purpose, but I find myself unable to let go of this > > Novation CAT modem that I dredged up a few years ago... > > Are you referring to the AppleCat? Nope, I'm referring to a plain old Novation CAT 300 baud acoustic coupled modem. I saved it from the trash heap a few years ago because I was going on travel somewhere that I knew A) I would have to do some remote access >from my hotel room and 2) the hotel room didn't have modular jacks. It was the only acoustic coupler I could find and worked great. I haven't had the heart to toss it out since. BTW, this would have been about '92 that I was using 300 baud modems from hotel rooms... Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 8 months

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(Fwd)

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

Here's a real classic for ya. I'd have killed for a system like this one, but married life, no room, no time, blah blah blah . . . Maybe someone out there wants this. Jeff ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Path: Supernews70!supernews.com!news.he.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwel l.syr.edu!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hookup!winternet.com!not-for-mail From: Jim Tousignant <jtous(a)pcpros.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.m6809 Subject: 6800 Exorciser System Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:39:30 -0500 Organization: Acme Lines: 7 Message-ID: <33C51042.42DB9891(a)pcpros.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin45.pcpros.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i586) Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.m6809:186 Anyone have a use for a Motorola 6800 Exorcisor System? This is a real antique - we're talkin dual 8" drives here, 6809 assembler, all kinds of add on cards.

28 years, 8 months

1
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IBM 5110

by HamiJohn＠aol.com

Hi, Had one at work in the late 70's/early 80's. What specifically would you like to know? John Hamilton hamijohn(a)aol.com

28 years, 8 months

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What exactly, is an IBM System 36?

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> I have the oportunity to aquire an IBM System 36 model 5364 with manuals > and operating disks, all in working condition. My question is, I have never > heard of this system (the 360/370, yes). What can I expect? The S/36 is a minicomputer from the early 1980s (?). It replaced the system/34, although I still had to work on one of the latter as a student in 1985-6. I don't think I have much documentation on the S/36, but I have some on the S/34, including an OCL (operation control language - rather like JCL) reference which might help you. The 5364 was a late S/36, the Desktop model. It comes in a box that looks remarkably like a PC/AT (the only external difference being the disk drive bays I think). Unfortunately its floppy drive is 5 1/4 inch, where all other S/36s at that date had 8 inch. Trivia information: The largest S/36, together with the S/34 and a word processing system of which I can no longer remember the number, all had the nicest floppy drive I have ever seen. It took twenty-three disks - three singly and two cassettes of ten each - on a moving carriage (tautology??). It moved the carriage until the appropriate disk was opposite the hole, then sucked it in and read/wrote it. Fast. :-) Philip.

28 years, 8 months

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History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Uncle Roger wrote: > (But I always was, and always will be, a Robotron man...) What!?!?! Do you mean the East German Robotron Elektronik, or is this another company with the same name? If the former, do you know what the Robotron 7022 is/was? I think it is a micro of early '80s vintage. I have a Robotron 7622 - a large (5U rack mount) box that appears to be the console for it (lamps and switches and four 7-segment hex digits). I am trying to reverse engineer but am having problems with Russian chip numbers. Sometime soon I shall make a longer posting on this subject... Philip.

28 years, 8 months

2
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Video Brain

by ccm＠sentex.net

>Sam Ismail wrote: > One of the >> systems he mentioned he had was a Video Brain. Apparently this is a >> video game system. I *think* I vaguely remember hearing about this >> system. At any rate I'm curious about it and was wondering if anybody >> knew what it was as we both had too much tequila for him to describe and >> for me to comprehend it. >Video brain was made by a firm called UMTECH, used a microprocessor >called F8 and had 1 to 4K of RAM memory. It was possible to store the >data on cassette and, you are right there, it had many plug-in >cartridges with games on them. It was sold mainly through departments >stores and specialty electronic stores (at least that is what "A >Collector's guide to personal computers" book has to say about it) > >enrico > >================================================================ >Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. >tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile >website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> >================================================================ >visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm> > > > This is a case of two computers and one name. The Video Brain is also a desktop, CP/M microcomputer built in the early 1980's. It physically resembles an Applied Digital Data Systems ADDS 70 intelligent terminal with dual 5 1/4" floppies mounted beside the monitor. Now you must investigate further and tell us which one it is. Yours in good faith.

28 years, 8 months

4
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Classic Video Games

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:48 PM 7/11/97 -0600, you wrote: >I think that was RS. I had one of those too. Got pretty boring pretty >quick, cause you could fake down, go up three times and spaz on the >forward button for a guaranteed first down every time. (or was it a >guaranteed TD? I can't remember.) guaranteed TD. Yep, that's it. 8^) It may have been boring, but it was better than studying! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

2
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Some Commie questions

by george.lin＠documentum.com

Zane, Are you trying to connect the 1702 monitor to the C128 RF port? It won't work. The 1702 monitor should be connected to the C128 VIDEO port via a special cable. The VIDEO port outputs composite video signal. The RF port outputs VHS Channel 3 or 4 and is used for TV connection. George -- George Lin Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) Manager, Data/Voice Communi- Phone/Fax: 510-463-6800/6850 cation & End-User Computing http://www.documentum.com Email Fax mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy [SMTP:healyzh@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, July 13, 1997 3:11 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Some Commie questions Hi, I gather this rates as a classic at least :^) Been working on my Weekend haul, and having only ever had a Vic 20 (which sadly I gave away years ago), I'm somewhat out of my depth. My main question is on the C= 128, along with all the other stuff I picked up, I got a Commodore 1702 monitor, and a couple 1541 drives. I've got the drive attached, and the monitor hooked up via a RF cable (I guess that's what it's called) through the front connection (This works for the Amiga 500 I also got yesterday). Anyway, I power the thing on, it "buzzes" the drive like it's expecting to find something, and I don't get anything on the display. I remember that the C64's like the VIC-20 would drop you at the prompt even if you had nothing attached, and didn't need any kind of boot floppies. Do I need some kind of boot disk for this beast? I gather a CGA monitor will work, so I guess I should dig out one of the old Mono-CGA monitors I've got in storage. The next question would be, is it worth trying to repair a C64's power supply? I got two of them yesterday, both powersupplies are dead. It looks like the 5V line is shorted to ground. I did get a copy of the Old & New style users manuals, and a copy of "Troubleshooting and Repairing your Commodore 64" yesterday (I love Powells Technical Books!) so I've got some documentation. It's been too many years since I worked as an Electrician, so my skill level is pretty low (wasn't very high to begin with, which is why I switched to computers). Then there is the Amiga 500. About a month ago, I'd picked up a copy of "Bards Tale" for the Amiga, so I know it works. Problem is I don't have a copy of the two floppies that came with the computer originally (also got the manual for this at Powells). I think I've got the Kickstart 1.2 ROMs (it has a 1.2 on the screen when asking for the Workbench disk). Where can I get the disks? I don't suppose it's like the Apple IIgs software that you can now download. The second Amiga question would be, is it possible to hook up Apple IIgs, or Macintosh 3 1/2" external floppy drive with a Amiga? I somehow doubt it, but... Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

28 years, 8 months

2
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Video game machine/Computer With 6800 Processor

by MPritchard＠ensemble.net

> Does anyone remember this machine : > > it's a video game console (like the atari VCS) but which could sit on > a box which then converts it to a home computer. > > The machine ran on a 6800 and had built-in basic. > > It came out approx at the same time as the Atari 400/800 series > (78-79?) > > I remember seeing an ad on it and the heading of the ad was > "imagination machine". > > > Ben > > Ahh, the "APF Imagination Machine" I believe. Somewhere I have a > single cartridge for it. > > -Mp

28 years, 8 months

2
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Updates

by bill＠booster.bothell.washington.edu

Hi all. A lot of things have been significantly updated over the last few weeks. You may want to take a look. The web site (http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html) has been reworked somewhat. Brett's Classic Computer Encyclopedia (http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/index.html) has grown quite a bit but could use some images (hint, hint, guys) Isaac's Classic Computer Rescue site (http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html) is looking good. The Links Section of the web site has nearly doubled (although I know you guys have more that you could cough up ;) Same with the FAQs section (once again - send me more) and the ClassicCmp FAQ has been HTMLized for your ease of reading. The document archive is online (although most listings are still being held under review). The Big List of Classic Computers now contains sections for Prototype and Limited-Run computers and for computers which more info is needed on. The FTP site has been indexed and divided up into sections for various computers - not a whole lot is there, a few faqs, articles, and pictures. Feel free to send more ;) (ftp://140.142.225.27/pub/classiccmp) Bill ---------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson - Classic Computers ListOp bill(a)booster.u.washinton.edu or bcw(a)u.washington.edu http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw

28 years, 8 months

4
4
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HP 9836, HP 86 ??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> > The HP86 is basically an HP85 without the built-in monitor,tape drive, > > or printer, but with GPIB as standard. The 9121 is a single-sided version of > > the 9122 if that's any help. > > Ok, you've lost me on that one. What is the GPIB? GPIB = General-Purpose Interface Bus. Aka IEEE-488, and very similar to HPIB (= Hewlett-Packard Interface bus). HP were the company who designed it, but it turns up on all sorts of machines. It's an 8-bit parallel interface using a 24 pin connector. 8 pins are ground, 8 are data, 3 are handshake, and 5 are bus control/management. It was originally designed to link up lab equipment (DVMs, counters, digital 'scopes, etc), but HP use it as a general peripheral bus (disk drives, plotters, printers, etc) on some of their micros. Commodore used it for much the same purpose (although with looser timing requirements) on the PETs > David Williams - Computer Packrat -tony

28 years, 8 months

1
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HP 9836, HP 86 ??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> There are two flavors of HP 86, the 86A and the 86B. Thanks for the info - I've only used 86B's. > Re: the 9121: yep, single-sided Sony stiffy drives that hold about > 300KB I think. It's been too long and I have forgotten just about > everything except that the single-sided ones never seemed to hold > quite enough (this on HP 150s). Probalby 320 or 360K bytes (at least on the 150 - is the 9121 supported on the 150 - my manuals are silent on the subject...). It's 80 track single-sided, and thus the same size as a double-sided 40 track disk. > You know how 3.5" drives open the metal slider so they can get at the > medium? The very earliest drives didn't, and the stiffies didn't > spring-load the slider -- it was up to the user to slide the slider > before insertion into and after removal from the drive. I've also seen disks that open automatically, but stay open when ejected. You 'pinch' them to close them. They did not close automatically on ejection from any drive. > -Frank McConnell -tony

28 years, 8 months

1
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PDP performance question.

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> what is a PDP? choices 1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,11/780,11/750,11/730? Got something against the PDP12 and PDP15, then ? :-) [Sorry, couldn't resist it!] > Allison -tony

28 years, 8 months

1
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Extra stuff to go

by jeffh＠unix.aardvarkol.com

Ben, I recieved your money order in the mail, but due to my work schedule, it's likely I won't be able to try and ship the Model 4 until at least Tuesday. I'll let you knwo as soon as I ship. Thanks. Jeff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

28 years, 8 months

1
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Dead Thomson To7 -70

by strzecha＠kis.p.lodz.pl

Hi, Yesterday I recived Thomson To7-70 computer, which is totally dead. When it's working, on display there are only horizontal color lines, each of them has witdh of one character. Is ther anybody who can say me whots's bad. I suppose this can be demaged processor (it's incredibly hot after 2-3 minuters of working), but I am not sure. Thanks, Krzysztof Strzecha

28 years, 8 months

2
2
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PAM computer, Convergent?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> writes: > Nope. I've got a Pivot. This was nothing like the Pivot. It was close > to the shape of an Osbourne and it was beige. It was close to the > dimensions of a tower case only it sits horizontally. You are right, that is not a Pivot. Unfortunately I am not sure what it is. > I got mine for free. Like I said, "bogus price". I didn't buy it. I didn't even inquire at the counter. IBM-compatibles (and I think these were fairly so) aren't real interesting to me even if George Morrow did let his name get put on 'em. (Though I do have one of the Osborne 3 flavor...a moment of weakness I guess.) BTW, speaking of Morrow stuff, I met a guy at the Foothill swap meet today who was selling a Micro Decision (claimed to be an MD-11 but two floppies, no hard disk) for $30. I'm not interested -- got two of 'em that I haven't touched for a while -- but thought someone here might be. Has software and manuals but I did not see the big stack of paper-bound manuals that I might expect; the seller said he got it >from an ex-Morrow employee and it may have been assembled from excess parts but is functional. Other stuff found at the Foothill swap: Sinclair ZX-80. Well, it's in pieces, but board, case top, case bottom, wall wart...yep, looks like they're all there. $5. First one I've seen in years so I snagged it. A couple of S-100 bits. Some HP employees were perturbed by the prices of quality S-100 gear and so set about designing their own, and it looks like they got to use HP's printed-circuit production facilities. Apparently I missed the chassis but got the junk box for another $5. Included are a pristine blank CPU board of their design, as well as a couple of S-100 bus terminators. S-100 bus terminators with the HP logo, whodathunkit? Part number on the board is 7373-60003, and the board comes with helpful instructions in the traces (no solder mask or silkscreen): TERMINATOR THE LAST BOARD I think there is a story here, and I want to know more of it than I got today. Convergent Tech Workslate, plus printer and serial/parallel box, condition uncertain. $26. Pricey but if I get it cleaned up and working it could make a nice desk toy at the office. What sort of power input do these things want? Xerox 820 board, socketed but ICs not plugged in. Another project that the owner lost interest in. $2. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 8 months

2
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What exactly, is an IBM System 36?

by spc＠armigeron.com

I have the oportunity to aquire an IBM System 36 model 5364 with manuals and operating disks, all in working condition. My question is, I have never heard of this system (the 360/370, yes). What can I expect? Secondly, from the same source, I can get a Compac Portable I XT with harddrive and memory upgrade, ethernet 3/comm and AST 5250 emulation (some mainframe terminal?), again all in working condition, but from what I hear, it's portable in the term that yes, you can lug the entire setup. Third, for anyone that is interested (you pay shipping, plus maybe a few extra bucks - whatever you think it's worth) the following are also available: 10M HD for an IBM 360 Monroe (possible) "bookkeeping machine" Underwood typewriter (manual) (unknown) manual adding machine I'll be hearing more about this stuff on Monday. -spc (Is getting more stuff than he knows what to do with ... )

28 years, 8 months

2
3
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IBM 5110

by strzecha＠kis.p.lodz.pl

Hi, I'm looking for information about IBM 5110 computer. Is there anybody who can help me ? Thanks Krzysztof Strzecha

28 years, 8 months

1
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HP 9836, HP 86 ??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <199707122130.QAA02137(a)Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > I was just checking out a new store near me and saw an HP 9836. > Anyone know anything about this? It looked like a one piece setup > with a built-in monitor and 2 5 1/4" floppy drives and keyboard. It > was BIG. Can anyone tell me about it? I can't tell you much about it, although if it's the machine I am thinking of, the monitor is actually a separate box that locks in place. It's a 68000-based machine, and has GPIB as standard. SOme of them have a ROM board containing (I think) HP-basic, while others boot from floppy. > I also saw an HP 86 with lots of carts plugged into the rear and an > HP 9816 monitor and HP 9121 3 1/2" dual drive unit. I'm talking to > the guy about picking these up so if someone can give me some info on > them I'd appreciate it. The HP86 is basically an HP85 without the built-in monitor,tape drive, or printer, but with GPIB as standard. The 9121 is a single-sided version of the 9122 if that's any help. > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat -tony

28 years, 8 months

2
1
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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by manney＠nwohio.com

> %but that a 25 _year_ old minicomputer on the same desk was still > going strong. > > It really depends. No doubt minicomputer HD were reliable, but the > early MFM stuff for PCs were shitty to work with. Depends on the HDD. Some (such as the ST-225) were el cheapo products (cheap at the time, compared with more expensive ones -- I have a 1984 adv't, listing ST-225's at $400; ST-251 at $600!)...IBM's Xybec controllers were slow, tho' I don't know how reliable. Some ST-506/412 -- e.g., the ST-225 -- drives lacked autopark heads, thus inviting problems.

28 years, 8 months

6
6
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Fwd: TRS80 Hardware and Software

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

This advert appeared in an Australian newsgroup, obviously in error. It turns out the guy is in Milwaukee, WI. Perhaps some of you USA people are interested. Hans Olminkhof FOR SALE: Trs80/Tandy/Radio Shack Hardware & Software Make replies to: Rrotaru(a)execpc.com As of July 10, 1997 the following items are for sale and are open to any reasonalbe offer (either as a package or individual items). All items MUST go! So, don't wait too long to respond. All items are in working condition unless otherwise noted. You pay for shipping. HARDWARE: (2) Trs80 Model 4's (both need power supplies; 64K Non-Gate Array's) (2) Radio Shack Line Printer VIII's (with extra ribbons)...both work fine. (1) Tandy DT-1 Data Terminal (w/manual, tech manual, spare keyboard & parts) (2) Trs80 Model 1's (each w/ expansion interface, manuals & monitor) (1) Joystick for Model 1 (Big Five "Trisstick") (1) TC-8 cassette interface for Model 1 (with tapes!) (1) Radio Shack Line Printer II interface for Model 1 (1) Microtek MT-32 Printer/Memory module for Model 1 (1) Micro Mint 300 Baud Modem (for Model 1; w/ Comm80 cassette software) (1) Orchestra 90 Stereo Music Synthesizer (for Model 3/4 w/floppies & docs) (5) Single sided/Double density (180K) 5.25" floppy drives (orig. Tandy) (2) Tandy Color Computer 2's (Coco 2) (1) Direct connect modem (300 baud for Coco) (1) Tandy CM-2 Color Monitor (for Coco 3, but will do CGA on IBM-PC's!) SOFTWARE: TRS80 MODEL 1: Advanced Statistical Analysis (cassette) Level 1 Game Pack (cassette) Personal Finance (cassette) Cassette Comm (obvious) Temple of Apshai (cassette game) TRS80 MODEL 3: In Memory Information (cassette) Assembly Language Tutor (cassette - Model 1 & 3, two copies one is sealed) Trs80/Z80 Assembly Language Library (Model 1 & 3; floppies) Computer Graphics (Basic/utils/subroutines; floppy) Compiler Basic (Model 1 & 3; floppy) Series 1 Editor/Assembler Ver. 1.00 (floppy) Trsdos 6.02.00 (orig. disk & manual) Mail/File System Ver. 3.3 (Galactic Software; floppy) Find It Quick-Instant Software (Model 1 & 3; floppy) Mirco Courier Ver. 1.00.00 (floppy) Profile Ver. 3.4 (floppy) Micro Pilot Authoring System Ver. 1.00.00 (floppy) Computer Assisted Reading Development C.A.R.D. (floppy) Basic Course (cassette) Scripsit (text editor; cassette) Lots of cassette software...Mostly Model 3 stuff...some are orig. tapes TRS80 MODEL 4: Profile 4 Plus Ver. 1.00.03 (floppy) Disk Scripsit Ver. 1.00 (text editor; floppy) Target Planner Calc (spreadsheet; floppy) The Producer Ver. 4.0 (create basic programs using plain english; floppy) Deskmate ReportStar (word processing/report creator; CP/M software - Montizuma Micro) COLOR COMPUTER 2/3 (CoCo2 or 3): Mickey's Space Adventure (kid's game, sealed; floppy) Ghana Bwana (kid's game, 2 copies- 1 is sealed; floppy) Color Math (kid's math tutor, 2 copies- 1 is sealed; cassette) Rocky's Boots (kid's game; floppy) Flightsim I (for Coco 3; floppy) Dungeons of Daggorath (kid's game, cartridge) Personal Finance II (cartridge) Color Scripsit (text editor; cartridge) Spectaculator (spreadsheet program; cartridge) BasicOS9 (floppy) OS9 Profile (floppy) Castle of Tharoggao (game; cartridge) Rogue (Coco3; floppy) Kronis Rift (Lucasfilm game, Coco3; floppy) Chromacassette's (several with games and utils; cassettes) MANUALS AND DOCS: Oricle 80 (photo copies) Tandy Home Education Systems - Vidtex Basic Computer Games/More Basic Computer Games Series I Editor/Assembler Tandy Intelligent Modem DC-2212 (manual only- no modem) Profile III Plus (no disk) Super Scripsit (no disk) Trsdos Ver. 6.1.2 (manual only, no disk...copies available upon request) Dow Jones Information Service User Guide Business Mailing List Quick Quiz Lynn's Check Register System (photocopy) Disk Course (photocopy) Teacher Aid (photocopy) T-Bug - Z80 Monitor & Debugging Aid (photocopy) Micro Music (photocopy) Tape Payroll System (photocopy) Cross Reference Utility (photocopy) Host Term (photocopy) Show & Spell (photocopy) Statistical Analysis (photocopy) In Memory Information system (photocopy) BOOKS: Introduction to Trs80 Gaphics - Don Inman Trs80 Graphics - Don Inman Advanced Level II Basic - Don Inman/Bob Albrecht/Ramon Zamora) Using the Trs80 In Your Home - Charles D. Sternberg Trs80 Graphics for the Model 1 & Model 3 - David A. Kater/Susan J. Thomas Visicalc For Your Trs80 - Carol Klitzner/Matthew J. Plociak Jr Visicalc Applications - Robt. E. Williams/Bruce J. Taylor/Brian L. King Business Programming Applications - Wm. Barden (for Model 1/3/2/16) Introdcution to SuperScripsit Word Processing Tandy Source Book (software applications - Vol. 8) Business Programs for the Trs80 Model 1/3 - Charles D. Sternberg The Rest of 80 - 80Micro Magazine Publications 80Micro's Review Guide Trs80 Data File Programming Model 1/3 - Finkel/Brown Encyclopedia for the Trs80 Vol. 1-10 Understanding Digital Computers - Radio Shack Getting Started With Trs80 Basic (Model 1/3/4) - Radio Shack MAGAZINES: Trs80 Microcomputer News (1979-1986, some years complete, some not) 80 Micro (1981-1988; some years complete, some not) MISC IBM & COMPATIBLE STUFF: Model PC-130a 150 Watt switching power supply (new in box...never used) Atari SX212 External 1200 baud modem (For Atari and IBM; Hayes compatible!) Viva 2400 baud Internal Fax/Modem (fax is 9600 send/4800 receive) Telix VGA TTL mono monitor (must have TTL video card) Epson FX-80 printer (still prints ok, carriage needs cleaning) ====================================================================== ====== REPLY TO: Rrotaru(a)execpc.com ====================================================================== ======

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

HP 9836, HP 86 ??

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes: > The HP86 is basically an HP85 without the built-in monitor,tape drive, > or printer, but with GPIB as standard. The 9121 is a single-sided version of > the 9122 if that's any help. There are two flavors of HP 86, the 86A and the 86B. The 86A does not have the built-in GPIB (aka IEEE-488 aka HP-IB). Instead it has three connectors on the back. All three look the same, like Centronics printer connectors but maybe with screw-downs instead of ears. One is for a cable to a Centronics-ish printer. The other two are for cables to external 5.25" floppy drives. The 86B does away with all this and instead has an HP-IB connector. Re: the 9121: yep, single-sided Sony stiffy drives that hold about 300KB I think. It's been too long and I have forgotten just about everything except that the single-sided ones never seemed to hold quite enough (this on HP 150s). HP was an early adopter of the Sony 3.5" stiffies, back when it was not clear that the 3.5" format was going to be the winner from the several sub-5.25" media. You know how 3.5" drives open the metal slider so they can get at the medium? The very earliest drives didn't, and the stiffies didn't spring-load the slider -- it was up to the user to slide the slider before insertion into and after removal from the drive. For a while there were goes-either-way stiffies: slider spring-loaded so that they would close on eject from an auto-open drive, but also with a catch so you could slide the slider over to the left before insertion into a non-auto-open drive, then pinch the corner after removal to release the catch and let the spring pull the slider closed. That is why those stiffies have the legend "PINCH" near that corner. I don't know how pervasive these early drives were. The place where I worked at the time had a few 1983-dated pieces of equipment (a 9121, some 9133XVs) that were the auto-open variety. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Saturday Haul

by thedm＠sunflower.com

I need a 128 for my collection, care to part with one? ---------- > From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Saturday Haul > Date: Saturday, July 12, 1997 10:23 PM > > Today was one of those good days/bad days. I ended up with quite a few > machines I didn't have but ended up losing out on some stuff. The bad > news? I bought an 11/23 w/ HD and it somehow got separated from the > stuff I bought and I do not have it now. Second, that Spectragraphics > CAD workstation I have been telling people about had 6 Sony color > Trinitron monitors, all working, and they sold for $5 each. I am told > (after the fact) that they are worth about $500 each on the used > equipment market. > > Good news, I ended up with: > > Tandy 6000 HD w/docs and software > ATT PC7300 w/ some docs and software > Three Apple IIe computers w/ 4 floppy drives total > Apple IIc computer w/monitor, printer, software, manuals > Wang Computer model PC-XC3-2 (docs coming when they get found) > Two Commodore 128C computers > Non-Linear-Systems Kaypro II > Two IBM PC Keyboards > Six C64 game cartridges > Modem for C64 > Radio Shack Printer > 386 DX40 w/ 200 MB HD, 6 MB Ram > > Total outlay was about $30. Ham radio events can be a goldmine for old > computer stuff!

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Altair Construction Manual

by rcini＠msn.com

To all Altair fans... Well, my more-than-kind individual has provided me with the first of three installments of the original Altair construction manual. He scanned all 102 pages of the doc and made it into a PDF document -- almost 7mb in size. He is also providing me with manuals for "the 88-4K, 88-ACR, and other stuff." I'm not too familiar with all of the available options since the Altair was really before my time, but it looks like the 4k memory board and other stuff. I'm not going to U/L the docs yet, first for size reasons, and second, until we determine if we should try to contact Triumph-Adler... On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Jim Willing wrote: >>So, it can be assumed that TA [Triumph-Adler of Germany] now >>owns all of the rights to things MITS/Altair. I've tried to contact them >>on occasion on related matters and have gotten no response of any >>kind to date. Anybody have any thoughts? ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

PDP performance question.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> How is a PDP-11/23 compared to a 486SX/33? An 11/23 is slower than a 486 if it's running faster than 16mhz. but a 486 is running single user. > About how many percent is the PDP of the 486? what is a PDP? choices 1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,11/780,11/750,11/730? > About how many percent of the 486 is the VAX? Depending... first I've rarely seen a vax run a single user OS. A 486dx/33 compares to a 3100m38 if they are both running *nix. while the vax is slower in MIPs it is the ultimate CISC and can do more in fewer than a 486. It is also optimized for multitasking/timsharing something the 486 is not. Allison

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> It's a pity that a lot of the custom uProcessors were never really > publicly documented. That includes the ones found in the Sharp Basic > calculators. Some of the Sharp ones were documented - There are Technical reference/machine language manuals for (at least) the PC1500 and PC1350 families - I have both of them. Sharp service manuals (yes, they exist as well) contain schematics/pinouts but little (if any) machine code information. > Ben -tony >

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

We now own a VAX!

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-12 19:18:47 EDT, DA Seagraves put forth: you might want to post about it on comp.sys.dec newsgroup. i asked for some info there on my uVAX ][ i got recently, and got some really good info from the regulars there. there's a faq also, try ftp'ing to digital and look around. i know there's one there. << For $200 I got a VAX from a business that went under. It's a VAXserver 3100, with VMS 5.3 on it. I have no idea what to do with it, this is the first time I've ever seen VMS. I have a 50-user liscense. When I boot it up, it seems to wait forever for DECWindows to get DECnet or something... Someone please explain what this is and what it can do. Any help appreciated. This had an IP number, so it may be on the Internet if I can make it work... >> david

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Classic Video Games

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-12 07:42:02 EDT, Sam Ismail writes: << If you've ever heard that one Fleetwood Mac song, you'll recognize the "tackle" sound in one part of the song where he sings "So digital" and then you hear "blrrrp blrrrp". >> actually, it's supertramp. =D david

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Modem Collection

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. I'm not doing it on purpose, but I find myself unable to let go of this Novation CAT modem that I dredged up a few years ago... Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 8 months

4
3
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Panasonic HandHeld Update and FINAL COUNT!

by dastar＠crl.com

Ok Folks, here it is...the final count. Any last minute additions will be accomodated up until tonight so act soon. E-mail Name Qty ------------------------------ ----------------- --- dastar(a)crl.com Sam Ismail 4 allisonp(a)world.std.com Allison Parent 3 jeff(a)unix.aardvarkol.com Jeff Hellige 2 KFergason(a)aol.com Kelly Fergason 3 tuck6(a)ibm.net Gary Tucker 2 sinasohn(a)crl.com Roger Sinasohn 5 gram(a)cnct.com Ward Griffiths 3 bcoakley(a)teleport.com Ben Coakley 1 pcoad(a)crl.com Paul Coad 2 jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com Jim Willing 3 rcini(a)msn.com Richard Cini 3 hans1(a)filan00.grenoble.hp.com Hans Pufal 5 ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca Doug Spence 3 jott(a)maddog.ee.nd.edu John Ott 1 bwit(a)pobox.com Bob Withers 4 frank(a)5points.com Frank Peseckis 2 zmerch(a)northernway.net Roger Merchberger 3 ursa(a)idir.net ursa 4 rws(a)ais.net Richard Schauer 2 stuart(a)colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu Brian Stuart 3 jlodoen(a)mega.megamed.com Jeff Lodoen 1 s-ware(a)nwu.edu Scott Ware 3 SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com 1 jrice(a)texoma.net James Rice 3 bluesky6(a)netcom.com Benedict Chong 2 dynasoar(a)mindspring.com Kirk Scott 2 jolminkh(a)c2.telstra-mm.net.au Hans Olminkhof 2 mtapley(a)swri.edu Mark Tapley 1 scm(a)smorang.enm.maine.edu Stacy Morang 2 danjo(a)xnet.com Brett 2 haley(a)galstar.com Curtis Haley 1 george.lin(a)documentum.com George Lin 2 idavis(a)comland.com Isaac Davis 2 fmc(a)reanimators.org Frank McConnell 10 mpsayler(a)cs.utexas.edu Matthew Sayler 1 gpine(a)popmail.mcs.net Gerald Pine 2 kai(a)microsoft.com Kai Kaltenbach 2 jdgale(a)romulus.ncsc.mil Jeremiah Gale 1 tedbird(a)netcom.com Ted Birdsell 2 broswell(a)syssrc.com Bob Roswell 1 foxnhare(a)goldrush.com Larry Anderson 2 Current Total: 103 If you're not on here, better e-mail to me soon. If you tried e-mailing me and your message bounced, send it to the group discussion and you will be forgiven. If your e-mail address as shown is incorrect please send me your correct address. I also have gotten quite a bit of interest from my internet sale ad and as a result the price per each for all of you will likely be pushed down. If you don't know what the hell I'm blathering about, this is in regards to the Panasonic HandHeld computers (about 400) that we are making a deal on. It was a handheld unit which featured: 6502 processor 8K RAM (the "top-of-the-line" model) 3 slots for 8K program EPROM on-board 40-column thermal printer (paper can still be found allegedly) 26 character x 1 line display Full "QWERTY" keyboard FORTH-like language in ROM called "SNAP" Measures 9" x 3.5" These units also have: Custom built tray to hold 10 additional 8K EPROMS Tray also housed both computer and printer to make one compact unit Some MCM 68674 8K EPROMs with programs on them AC Adaptor Current price will be < $10 per unit! If you would like to reserve one (or two or three or ten), e-mail me. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

Classic Video Games

by jeffh＠unix.aardvarkol.com

At 06:38 PM 7/11/97 -0700, you wrote: >When I was in high school, there was a precursor to the Lynx/Gameboy/etc. >crowd that was a football game. There were little red LED's(?) to represent >players, and you had up, down, and run buttons to control the quarter back. >It was very simplistic; you basically just ran the quarterback until you got >a touchdown (but I think you could do a fieldgoal?) Anyway, I think Radio >Shack sold one, but it may have been someone else. Yes, I remember these quite well...they made the most annoying 'blips' and 'beeps'! I don't recall who made them or what they were called, though I believe Coleco made something like it at one time. I remember they were really popular when I was in junior high, about 1979-80 or so and that the teachers must have had quite a collection of similar games the way they were always confiscating them! I also had a fairly neat blackjack handheld at about the same time. Jeff jeffh(a)unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Neither - The first arcade videogame was Nutting & Associates Computer Space, designed by Nolan Bushnell in 1971, who later designed Pong (1972) with the profits, and founded Atari. The first home videogame was the Magnavox Odyssey 100, in 1972. The first ROM cartridge-based home video game title is co-owned by the Fairchild Channel F and the RCA Studio II, which were introduced simultaneously in 1976. The first vector graphic arcade game was Lunar Lander in 1979, followed by Asteroids later that year. The first (and only) vector graphic home video game was the GCE/Milton Bradley Vectrex in 1982. Kai > ---------- > From: PG Manney > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, July 11, 1997 6:59 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: "Bally Astrocade" > > Speaking of video games, I have 2 different sources which say that the > first video game was > > 1)Pong > 2) Asteroids. > > I personally believe asteroids, as the game (in my recollectopn, at > least) > used vector graphics, which should be faster and simpler than Pong's > raster > image. > > ...Or am I all wet? Anyone know? > > (Trivia -- What does "Pac" in Pac-man stand for? answer on request.) >

28 years, 8 months

9
8
0 0

HHC

by dastar＠crl.com

A couple people have asked about shipping costs. I hadn't quite thought about it until last night. Everyone should be aware that they will be paying the shipping costs both to and from me (or whoever is a distributor). Here's the current plan: I will have all the units either sent to me or get some volunteers around the country to have a bunch of units sent to them. I am assuming Mike will not want to handle shipping to each person. I will ask but I seriously doubt it. So anyway, he's in Jersey and I'm in California, and shipping will be a maximum if all are sent to me. Therefore, I would like all the units with a west coast destination sent to me, all with a mid-west destination sent to ???, southwest destination sent to ???, east coast sent to ???, etc. From there they will be individually packed and shipped out. So therefore we get hit with double shipping charges. Shitty I know. I figure total shipping costs will be $4 for a single unit, $5 for a couple, etc. Not sure exactly. I realize the shipping costs may not be what some people bargained for so at this point I would ask that if you want to or need to back out, please do it soon. I am going to try and negotiate a lump sum for the total units that will hopefully bring the cost per unit to $7. That's what I'm shooting for. Stay tuned. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

1975 PE Altair Article Scans

by rcini＠msn.com

Jim: >>Sadly it gets a bit more contorted than that... Ed Roberts sold MITS to >>Pertec (who proceeded to largely run it into the ground B^{ ), who was >>then purchased by Triumph-Adler of Germany. >>So, it can be assumed that TA now owns all of the rights to things >>MITS/Altair. I've tried to contact them on occasion on related matters >>and have gotten no response of any kind to date. Thanks for the history. One could probably claim that since the platform is no longer supported and that efforts to contact the rightful owner have failed, so long as we don't get "stupid" about it, we should be able to archive the docs...I hope. I'd hate to lose this important piece of information (although I will hold onto it and provide pages to members upon request). What a pain this copyright law is! Jim, re: the Hero 1000/2000 robots, where can I find Mobile Ed. Productions?? ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Classic Video Games

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Whilst in a self-induced trance, thedm (and others) happened to blather: >Sounds like Mattel Electronic Football. My friends and I were the reason >they stopped letting us take to school! damn...that was ages ago. [big snip] Coleco was mentioned... My brother had a Coleco back in the Jr / H.S. daze... which was pretty eazy to win. From what I remember, the LED's could be controlled with two brightness levels, the brighter ones were you, and the dimmer ones were the badguys. I stumbled across it about a year ago or so, while moving... Not sure if my brother or I ended up with it (---Still unpacking--- :-( ) but it still worked at last check. This is one of those things that I took apart as well... but it actually got back together and still worked! ;-) Trivia: On the Coleco, there was a 6-tone "good sound" -- touchdown, methinks. It went something like this (bad replica of staff to follow :) --------o-----o-- ----------------- -----o-----o----- ---o------------- -o--------------- Anyway, there was an episode of Hart to Hart (Robert Wagner & Stephanie Powers... remember?) that used those sounds for automatic door openers / security system at a millionaire/billionaires house... I remember hearing that, and saying so. No-one believed me until I went and got the game and started playing it... then the family was mad that I was making noise during the show! But at least I proved my point. ;^> Have fun, and get ready for my next post! See ya, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

OOPS - Explorer 85 - Encyclopedia Entry

by danjo＠xnet.com

Well I forked it up! My ISP was working on an upgade and I was editing *someones* entry for the Explorer 85 on the Encyclopedia web page. Suddenly, when I saved it, Error - no free pace on device! So I thought Ok, I will just :q! OOPS it's gone! Now normally I save a copy for reference - pp back to pine - Error - OOps that's gone too! Who ever placed the page - huh - you want to email me the particulars and I will enter them??? BC

28 years, 8 months

1
0
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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> From: Brett <danjo(a)xnet.com> > Well, that's true. I always wondered why DEC couldn't sell PDP-11's - b > then with that lousy chip set and poor software 8-) I still get pissed > thinking about how DEC Marketing has messed up every attempt to get int > the *home* market! You're pissed! I lost my job with them because they couldn't make money >from a dimond mine! > You mean the the 7440 I have on the desk next to me? Never remembered the model number but likely, yes! > Not if you tell people about it! Drat you caught me. > You must have been - what - 8 years old 8-) Great story! I think we al I wish, I'm old enough. I finished college before the 8080 was introduced. > have one of those - where everybody kinda stares at you - wondering - > What the Hell is THAT? What are you doing with that - THING? Never happend to me. ;-) I get you have those, in there, and they all work? Allison

28 years, 8 months

2
1
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History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:58 AM 7/11/97 -0600, you wrote: >>playing a vector graphic arcade version of Space War when we were fresh >five buttons, 'rotate left', 'rotate right', 'thrust', 'fire', >'hyperspace'. The interesting thing was you didn't play against the Perhaps you're thinking of a later game wherein you could have two players at the same time with either separate ships, or linked ships. Sorta like asteroids in that you had to avoid/shoot various things on the screen. It had the rotate left/right buttons. There was another that used a rotating knob to control rotation; the story was it was a combat training simulation, but I can't remember the name. That was a fun one. (But I always was, and always will be, a Robotron man...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

1
0
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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 09:24 PM 7/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >dirt cheap at swap meets and thrift stores and sell it on the internet >for enough profit to break even on the hobby. It was the only way I >could get my wife to tolerate it. (Just in case you're wondering I make I'm the same way, or at least, I would be, if I could bear to part with anything! 8^) >it a point to sell stuff at cost on this discussion because, let's face >it, we're all friends, and I don't like profiting from friends). (No, likewise. If I've got something I don't think is of interest here, I'll put it on the AuctionWeb and let it go for whatever the market will pay. Otherwise, (like the PCjr? carts, which I need to post a message about) I'll just let things go for what they cost me. >Eventually I will HTML-ize it and put it up in a web page for people to I'm working on mine, slowly but surely! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Old Microprocessors

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <33c69abc.15979193(a)smtp.ix.netcom.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > Some days ago, I mentioned that there was a UK company that used to > advertise old microprocessors like 9900, Z800x, 32032 and other stuff. > > I've just dug up my old issues of Elektor and found the company. It's > Viewcom, at Plaistow in London. > > Perhaps Enrico might want to check if this company still exists and > its tel/fax number: I've been looking for a 10MHz Z8001 (the one found > in Ciarcia's Trump card project in Byte). They're still going. Viewcom Electronics, 77 Upperton Road West Plaistow London E13 9LT England. Retail Shop 139 New City Road Plaistow London E13 9PX England Telephone : 0181-471-9338 Fax : 0181-552-0946 I've dealt with them, and had no problems. If you intend to collect your order, 'phone first, and they'll sort the bits out for you. > > The April 1991 issue of Elektor advertises Viewcom as carrying stuff > like the 9900, 9995 (both TI 16-bit microP). There's even the AMD 9511 The TMS9995 is still listed at \pounds 69.85 (OUCH!) Z8001B is \pounds 11.96, Z08001-10PSC is \pounds 16.90. The other devices you mentioned are no longer listed, alas. > which (if I'm not mistaken) is one of the first math copros for > microcomputers. Indeed it is. I have a CCS 8711 card for the Apple ][ that uses this chip. > Ben -tony

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Datamaster troubles

by rcini＠msn.com

My Datamaster Troubles... Well, I'm reviving my Datamaster. Last year, it worked fine (I at least could get into Basic). This year, I can't even get it to boot. I have no manuals for the darned thing, so I have no idea what the numbers on the screen during the POST mean. I have one reverse-highlighted number: "09" and I'm assuming that this is a hardware failure code. I have the "Diagnostic" diskette, but since I think that the floppies are not working (or the diskette is now bad), it's useless. I've done the usual things like cleaning and reseating boards and cables, with no effect. Any clues?? ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SOL.3.95.970710235812.10063G-100000@typhoon> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > Enough of this blathing...anyway, you got my idea. I buy them for > > quality even they're outragously outdated. The newer ones even Compaq > > and Toshibas, Sony is now showing QC problems and sunk down as well. > > Recently a association already issued several critations warning > > buyers not to buy certain models from them. > > Boy - DO NOT get me started on THIS subject! Nor me. One of the reasons I use classics is that they're so well made and so reliable. A few weeks back I mentioned at a computer club that a new hard disk that I'd run for less than 25 _hours_ was already giving me trouble but that a 25 _year_ old minicomputer on the same desk was still going strong. > That is a given. 8 bitters rule. Even 16 bitters rule. Tho I do have > some 4 bitters - they don't rule - they just barely survive 8-) Err, don't forget the HP Saturn, which is used in almost all their calculators (including the HP48). That's a 4-bit machine at the hardware level (and sort-of 64 bit at the software level - strange chip). And I've found 4 bit microcontrollers in keyboards, 1-line displays, disk drives (not the controllers - but handling the stepper motor, drive ready, that sort of thing), and probably more besides. > There are probably more 8 bit MPU and CPU's in existance now than > Intel CPU's. They are EVERYWHERE. Kind of like Candid Camera. Where Don't forget the Microchip PIC (which has an 8-bit ALU and 12 or 14 bit instructions). Those turn up in just about anything nowadays. There's even one in my Laserprinter.... > you least expect it. Cars, phones, thermostats, elevators, games, man TV's, VCR's, CD players, monitors, IR remote handsets, toys, etc... > you name it - SOMEONE put a 6502/8085/6809 into it! Or an 8048, 8051, ST6, PIC, COP4, COP8, 7810, or something custom. > BC -tony

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

FAQ addition: Repairing Capacitive Keyboards

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20578947C(a)RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > REPAIRING CAPACITIVE KEYBOARDS > v1.0 7/10/97 Kai Kaltenbach > > ---> What are capacitive keyboards? > > The vast majority of capacitive keyboards were and are manufactured by > Keytronics of Spokane, Washington. The mechanism is really quite > simple. A keypress pushes a foil circle onto the surface of a printed Note that the foil (actually a metal layer) is on the inside surface of a plastic disk on the end of the key plunger. It doesn't actually make contact with the PCB > circuit board, thus completing the circuit and registering the keypress More correctly it increases the capacitance between 2 tracks on the PCB. > to the computer. Capacitive keyboards are very reliable; however, they > will fail over time even if unused. > > Each foil contact circle is backed by a cylinder of PVC foam. The foam > is subject to environmental deterioration. Once the foam loses its > elasticity or dissolves entirely, the keys will stop working because the > foil circles will no longer make good contact with the PC board. > Various classic computer systems, such as the Processor Technology Sol, > exhibit this problem after their 20+ year lifespan. I've once seen a fault where the metal layer vanished, leaving the foam intact. No idea what happened, but it didn't work, of course. > > ---> How do I tell if I have a capacitive keyboard? > > Just remove a key cap -- if there is a separate spring under the key > cap, around the plunger, it's extremely likely that it's a capacitive > keyboard. They won't always say Keytronic on the outside of the > keyboard housing. These keyboards are _everywhere_. I've seen them 'made' by PERQ, Apricot, Acorn, Tektronix, FTS, and probably more. The only problem is that some of those are classics in themselves, and probably shouldn't be raided for spares. > > ---> What do I need to start a repair job? > > First you need a set of replacement foam pads. Each foam pad is a > cylinder about 1/4" in diameter and 3/16" long. There is a semi-rigid > clear plastic circle attached to one end of the pad, and a foil cylinder > attached to the other end. > > The only toosl you'll need are a #1 Philips screwdriver and a very small > standard screwdriver such as those pen-clip types frequently included in Every Keytronics keyboard I've dismantled has needed a smaller Phillips screwdriver (size O?) to remove the PCB from the keyframe. > computer tool kits (plus whatever tools are necessary to remove the > keyboard from its enclosure). > > ---> Where do I get replacement pads? > > If you're a perfectionist, you can order replacement pads from Keytronic > Corporation (http://www.keytronic.com/). However, it's much easier to Seriously? Do they do other spares as well. There's a couple of custom chips (see below) in almost all of these keyboards, and a source of spares would be handy. > simply find a capacitive keyboard in your local computer junk/surplus > store and strip it for replacement pads (see above for info on > identifying such keyboards). -----> So, What are the Custom Chips ? There are, in general 2 off 20 pin custom chips in a keytronics keyboard (some later ones have a single 40 pin chip, but I know nothing about that). 22-908-3B 8-channel sense amplifier 1 : Row 0 2 : Row 1 3 : Row 2 4 : Row 3 5 : Reset/sync output 6 : Row 4 7 : Row 5 8 : Row 6 9 : Row 7 10 : Ground 11 : Out 7 12 : Out 6 13 : Out 5 14 : Out 4 15 : Out 3 16 : Out 2 17 : Out 1 18 : Out 0 19 : Reset in 20 : +5V Outputs are believed to be open-collector 22-950-3B keyboard column decoder/driver. 1 : Col 8 2 : Col 9 3 : Col 10 4 : Col 11 5 : Latch Clock 6 : Select 0 (LSB Input) 7 : Select 1 8 : Select 2 9 : Select 3 10 : Ground 11 : Sync Input 12 : Col 0 13 : Col 1 14 : Col 2 15 : Col 3 16 : Col 4 17 : Col 5 18 : Col 6 19 : Col 7 20 : +5V -tony

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SOL.3.95.970710232706.10063D-100000@typhoon> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > of the old machines. I collect, but I admit is has to make some sense to > > me as in useful or have some specific linkage to my place in this > > history. > > But this is a collectors list 8-) We all collect from that which we know. Not necessarily. I've bought things at radio rallies (hamfests) because 'it looked interesting'. Only later did I discover what I really had. If I'd always waited to find out what a particular item really was, then I'd probably have missed all the interesting stuff, and have a totally trivial collection. However, it does help to have some idea as to what things are. And to know what they look like from all angles :-) > You must have been - what - 8 years old 8-) Great story! I think we all > have one of those - where everybody kinda stares at you - wondering - > What the Hell is THAT? What are you doing with that - THING? Yep, got a load of them. Taking a trolley piled high with computer parts across Cambridge on a weekday afternoon is good for that :-). Or the time I carried a DEC Rainbow on a train - VR201 in one hand (using the built-in handle), CPU under the other arm, and keyboard in my pocket. Dismantling the CPU mid-journey (it needs no tools) added to the amusement. Then there was the time I carried an IBM PC/AT box on a train. It got the comment 'That's one hell of a laptop' :-). Or the time I was carrying a Creed 7E (baudot printing terminal) and was asked if I had a pen. My reply was 'no, but I have a teleprinter' :-) Still, what's wrong with being slightly mad? > > BC > > -tony

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SOL.3.95.970710191732.26431A-100000@typhoon> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > First - if you don't want to hear my opinion - stop now! I am going to > get pretty detailed about what the list is/should be about. I may hurt > some feelings - but well hell - that's life! Is it time to start a classic computers meta-list to discuss what should be on the classic computers list ? > Currently, this list is set on the aquistion of hardware. One reason > is to get it before it's GONE. Another, is the ECONOMY of collecting. > (I buy it for 10 and sell it for 15 Sam 8-) The point being, in two > years, if we did nothing - you may NEVER be able to buy it because > someone junked it! Nothing wrong with making hay while the sun shines. Absolutely. In some cases, the number of remaining machines of a particular type can be counted on the fingers of one hand - in unary :-). If we don't grab them when we can, then information on these machines will be lost for ever. > > The history of computing doesn't lend itself to the IMMEDIACY of hardware. > The history of computing IS. There is no cost in learning it, > understanding it, and aquiring it. I think I disagree here. It's a lot easier to figure out the history of a machine while the people who used it for real work (and even better the people who designed/built it) are still alive, and can still remember the machine. So there's some urgency here, but less than the 'Here's a 1-off prototype that will go in the skip if you don't get it today' type of thing. A lot of computer history, particularly over the last 20 or so years has not (IMHO) been adequately recorded. What I'd love to see would be complete documentation on all the classic computers - how the hardware worked, how the software worked, when it was introduced, why it was introduced, what went wrong, what should have been done differently, what was good about it, etc. But to do that for just _one_ machine would be a major undertaking (I've tried writing some hardware docs, and it takes a long time!). But some of that info is likely to die with the _designers_, not with the machines, alas. > I would probably die if someone wanted to give me the Intellec MDS that > Gary wrote CPM on. That is too much to hope for in this world 8-) Aside : It's probably possible to find a similar machine (although not _THE_ one) if you hunt for long enough. I've found an CS8i and an MDS800 second-hand. > I also get a little perturbed when people state "This Weekends Haul". The main reason I get little from these messages is that the situation is very different in different countries (Acorn machines are lot easier to find in the UK than in the States, while CoCo3's are almost unknown over here). And of coure prices are very different as well. > BC -tony

28 years, 8 months

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Modem Collection

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <33C673A3.6EA5(a)rain.org> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. I've got a few (I'm interested in telegraph and telephone history as well as computers, but my main collection is computer-related). It's not a large part of my collection, though. In the UK, modems were _rented_ from the GPO (== post office, who also ran the telephone system) at one time, like all other telephone equipment. Some of these modems are interesting technically - the earlier ones were about 14" square and 6" high, and contained plug-in modules for the PSU, modulator, demodulator, and controller. It was all discrete components (no chips), and some of the control used PO 3000-style relays (similar to the ones used in telephone exchanges). The demodulator was strange. It filtered the incoming signal (a multi-stage LC filter housed in a tobacco-tin sized box!), and then mixed it with a local oscillator to shift the frequency up. The output of that was filtered again, and fed to a 2-diode discriminator. The output of that was buffered and became the data output. It was basically a superhet FM receiver modified to work at the right frequency. Another strange GPO modem was the 13A. It's a 1" (approx) high plinth that was fitted under a Type 746 'phone that had extra 'voice' and 'data' buttons fitted. I know nothing about the circuitry in that one, but it's a rather neat unit. There were also things called 'isolation boxes' that were used to prevent faults in the user's equipment damaging the modem (or worse still the 'phone line). Typically they contained a number of zener diodes from each line of the RS232 connector to ground (2 diodes in inverse series per line), and some 50mA fuses in series with each line that would blow if there was overvoltage on that line. Such things are probably useless now, but I like to have all the bits of a classic setup, including little details such as this. > I have several devices that are called modem eliminators and I believe The term 'modem eliminator' normally meant 'null modem cable', and was a passive device. -tony

28 years, 8 months

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History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Yep, that was Cinematronic's excellent vector version of Space War, released in 1978. It was two-player only, and had several innovations, including the ability to shoot off part of your opponent's ship, and the selection of multiple game options at the start of your game (e.g. positive/negative gravity, invisible sun, etc.) The upright cabinet was huge, almost double-wide, but I would dearly love to come up with the cocktail version (http://brain.usask.ca/arcade/spacewar.htm) It'd be a nice complement to my Computer Space. Kai > ---------- > From: Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, July 11, 1997 11:05 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade") > > On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > Studio II, which were introduced simultaneously in 1976. The first > > vector graphic arcade game was Lunar Lander in 1979, followed by > > Asteroids later that year. The first (and only) vector graphic home > > I seem to recall spending many many hours (and quarters) with my > roommate > playing a vector graphic arcade version of Space War when we were > fresh > out of the USAF back in 1978 and spending loose hours at the Saint > James > Infirmary in Sunnyvale. > -- > Ward Griffiths > "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within > the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." --Claire Wolfe >

28 years, 8 months

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Modem Collection

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes: > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. I have a few, but not what I would call "early". An old Omnitec 701A (s/n 3) acoustic coupler that I used to use with a Teletype ca. 1978 (still worked when I tried it about a year ago, too). Also some S-100 modems, including a couple each of PMMI MM-103 and Hayes Micromodem 100, and what I am guessing is an earlier (1978) effort by D. C. Hayes called the 80-103A. > I have several devices that are called modem eliminators and I believe > these are basically serial cable boosters to increase the permissible > cable length. It depends. They may also provide clock signals for synchronous DTEs (as would ordinarily be done by the modems). -Frank McConnell

28 years, 8 months

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Old Microprocessors

by bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com

Some days ago, I mentioned that there was a UK company that used to advertise old microprocessors like 9900, Z800x, 32032 and other stuff. I've just dug up my old issues of Elektor and found the company. It's Viewcom, at Plaistow in London. Perhaps Enrico might want to check if this company still exists and its tel/fax number: I've been looking for a 10MHz Z8001 (the one found in Ciarcia's Trump card project in Byte). The April 1991 issue of Elektor advertises Viewcom as carrying stuff like the 9900, 9995 (both TI 16-bit microP). There's even the AMD 9511 which (if I'm not mistaken) is one of the first math copros for microcomputers. Interestingly, there's another ad. for a little machine called the midi65, which uses a 6501 (the number was re-used by Rockwell for a dual-65C02-on-a-chip implementation) with LCD display. Of course, then there are the usual surplus ads from Display Electronics (VAX11/750 for 3900 pounds sterling and the Tatung PC2000 a big brother of the CP/M Einstein for 299 pounds sterling) and J&N BULL Electrical (which offers an Atari 65XE computer for 45 pounds sterling). Ben

28 years, 8 months

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IBM minis still humming

by william＠ans.net

Yesterday, I finally received the chance to examine a family of computers that has been bugging me for a while. In the mid to late 1970s, IBM introduced a family of minis designed to kill the PDP-11, or so they thought. The series/1 is a bit different, in that they are not designed to run COBOL applications in a business environment. They are also very modular, something that other IBM offerings are not. I saw about 25 of the big beasts, all humming away at thier duties, and of course, now want one (love at first sight, it happens alot with collectors). Unfortunately, I am still lacking just about all technical information about the family. Has anyone on the list ever use one of these things? What operating system did it use? Just how good (or bad, probably) are these things? Oh, sorry about repeating the modem information! William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 8 months

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Paper Tape

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

As most of you probably know, some of the old printing terminal (teletype) units could utilize paper tape; the tape could be punched with a program, and hence used as a program storage media. I'd be interested in getting a bit of the tape; not real long (say, 4-6 feet), just for show-and-tell purposes. "Already punched" would be better than "unpunched" ("unpunched" might just look like a roll of adding machine paper-- big deal), but I'd take either. If somebody has some of this to spare, please drop me a note e-mail; I'd appreciate it. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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Modem Collection

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. > I have several devices that are called modem eliminators and I believe > these are basically serial cable boosters to increase the permissible > cable length. My guess is that the earliest modems were accousticle > (sp?) modems where the coupling was where the phone was laid onto the > modem rather than a direct connect to the computer. Was there anythin > earlier or other type of device? Early modems were mostly acoustical as it was a way of avoiding the BELL TELEPHONE CO tarriff and interconnection restrictions. There were also direct connect bell103 is well known of them. They go way back, to the old rtty machines used during WWII maybe before. Yes, those would have vacuum tubes. The modem eliminators were rs232 or current loop to rs422 which could be used up to several thousand feet or more. These were not modems per se but level translators to a format that worked well on hard copper pairs at what would be then called high speeds (4800 ->38.4++). Allison

28 years, 8 months

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"Bally Astrocade"

by manney＠nwohio.com

Speaking of video games, I have 2 different sources which say that the first video game was 1)Pong 2) Asteroids. I personally believe asteroids, as the game (in my recollectopn, at least) used vector graphics, which should be faster and simpler than Pong's raster image. ...Or am I all wet? Anyone know? (Trivia -- What does "Pac" in Pac-man stand for? answer on request.)

28 years, 8 months

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History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by jscarter＠worldnet.att.net

At 05:06 PM 7/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >Neither - The first arcade videogame was Nutting & Associates Computer >Space, designed by Nolan Bushnell in 1971, who later designed Pong >(1972) with the profits, and founded Atari. The first home videogame >was the Magnavox Odyssey 100, in 1972. The first ROM cartridge-based >home video game title is co-owned by the Fairchild Channel F and the RCA >Studio II, which were introduced simultaneously in 1976. The first >vector graphic arcade game was Lunar Lander in 1979, followed by >Asteroids later that year. The first (and only) vector graphic home >video game was the GCE/Milton Bradley Vectrex in 1982. > >Kai IIRC, Odyssey 100 was a simple pong unit. The one you're refering to was just "Odyssey." James jscarter(a)worldnet.att.net

28 years, 8 months

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farewell and COCO question and Definicon stuff and simpson meter.

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-11 10:29:07 EDT, you write: << On the contrary, I think that people are unsubscribing because in this mailing list about collecting Classic icons there is NOT ENOUGH discussion about the history of the computing boom and the hows and whys that led to it. >> I am sorry, but I was not aware that this list was about collecting classic computers. I thought this list was about classic computers, of which collecting is a part. I am not interested (well, not as much) in the "hows and whys". I want to find them, use them, fix them. I don't really collect them simply to collect. You might argue that I had to collect one to use it, but thats not necessarily the case. I could have bought my Kaypro new and simply still be using it. If this list IS about COLLECTING, then I will unsubscribe myself as well. On something more hardware related, I have a Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer Controller, Cat. No 26-3129. I am assuming it is a disk controller, but can someone give me some confirmation on that? Also, if someone still needs the definicon board stuff, I finally got my PC back together, so I can read the 5.25" disks. And while I am babbling, not really classic computer, but classic test equipment related, I have a Simpson 303 that I have never been able to get to work. It seems to need the battery, and it is a rechargeable model. Kelly

28 years, 8 months

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Panasonic HandHeld Update and FINAL COUNT!

by manney＠nwohio.com

Please reserve 2 handhelds for me -- thanks. Manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Actually, I collect for the sake of collecting, I make no money off it, ask my wife :) I collect so in 10 more years, I can play with toys I played with 20 years ago. That and to watch everyone freak when they see my dinosaurs alive and feeding on a daily basis. On a subnote, you all are intelligent people, but man, I think some folks need to lighten up and enjoy the water. But I guess, one part of me just can't relate to, is the "cost of downloading" mail, but I suppose there are situations where that is a problem, me, I have a cablemodem, so im spoiled rotten. As far as knowing what we all have, maybe we should add to our rescue list, a non fancy, listing of what everyone has, not for trading, but just as a reference. Then when I'm at my next flea market...etc. I can say, "Hey, I know John dosn't have a Coco1, maybe he'd like one, it's 2 bucks, Heck, I just grab it." Cya in the funny papers. Bill G. ---------- > From: Brett <danjo(a)xnet.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View > Date: Thursday, July 10, 1997 8:34 PM > > > First - if you don't want to hear my opinion - stop now! I am going to > get pretty detailed about what the list is/should be about. I may hurt > some feelings - but well hell - that's life! > > First from Enrico - > > > On the contrary, I think that people are unsubscribing because in this > > mailing list about collecting Classic icons there is NOT ENOUGH > > discussion about the history of the computing boom and the hows and > > whys that led to it. To just limit the discussion to the mere hardware > > is narrow minded and shows the kind of attitude which leads to consider > > "the other" (the one which begs to differ) as an enemy or at least as > > an intruder. The "dont' bother us as we know what we should be talking > > about" attitude might be legal and understandable but is it wise? > > No it is NOT wise! However - it is *as you said* understandable. Each > person is a collection of feelings and memories, sometimes refered to > as a *pile of the past*. Each of us has had different experiences in > EVERYTHING we do. No two people view life the EXACT same way. > > Currently, this list is set on the aquistion of hardware. One reason > is to get it before it's GONE. Another, is the ECONOMY of collecting. > (I buy it for 10 and sell it for 15 Sam 8-) The point being, in two > years, if we did nothing - you may NEVER be able to buy it because > someone junked it! Nothing wrong with making hay while the sun shines. > > The history of computing doesn't lend itself to the IMMEDIACY of hardware. > The history of computing IS. There is no cost in learning it, > understanding it, and aquiring it. > > Now, if everybody on the list had an Apple, an Amiga, an Altair, an Imsai, > a DEC 11/24, an IBM 360, two Commodore 64s, a BBC, etc,etc,etc THEN we > might sit down and discuss the history. We can discuss it now - but I > would rather be gathering all the hardware I can get my hands on NOW and > think about the history. > > I would probably die if someone wanted to give me the Intellec MDS that > Gary wrote CPM on. That is too much to hope for in this world 8-) > > > As already said here several times, computers are bits of metal and > > plastic. They are important for the sentiments and the feelings they > > managed to raise in each and everybody (and soul) of us. You keep your > > hardware (and I will keep mine so that I can leave it to future > > generations) but I will keep my principles and if this will mean I > > will have to do without you, then (I will be sorry but) be it. > > As said before, we are all different. I will gladly discuss the history > of computing. However, if I stray from why I think Turing was a genius > to WOW I JUST GOT MY RL02 TO BOOT MY 11/23 - you will have to forgive me. > I'm just that kind of guy. > > On the other hand tho - WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I have seen > the messages from you in the last two weeks and you have not mentioned > *history* at all! You have mentioned the social and psychological impact > of why we collect individual machines - it the same with cars - it the > same with ANY collectable. But it is NOT what I call - History. Nobody > NEEDS a twenty year old computer! Not in the USE sense - they NEED them to > remind them of the good times in the past. That spark of WONDER or GLORY > or FULLFILLMENT they got from that item. The same as ANY collectable. If > you have no sense of wonder or glory or fulfillment - you don't collect > for the sake of collecting - you are collecting for the ECONOMICS of > collecting. > > On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > You're absolutely, terribly correct. In our benighted shortsightedness > > we have been ignoring the core, the soul, nay, the very existentialism > > of the historical man-machine interface and the personal hygiene of Gary > > Kildall. These bits of metal and plastic have become a zen-like cyborg > [snipped but saved] > > becoming no more than Waldos while Charles Babbage's heart is ripped > > from his chest by ravens dark as toner, eight claws upon each talon. > > > > Kai > > Beautiful! I have not (except for Bill's bathroom story) been so > wonderfully entertained and amused by posts to the list than this! > You've gone up a notch in my book. > > Glenn Roberts wrote: > > > > I for one certainly support Bill's efforts to keep this list on target. > > Enrico replied > > Yes, agreed, BUT the pint being made here is WHICH is the target? Just > hardware OR history of the machines as well? > > Pint! Oh point 8-( > I think Bill summed it up - go ahead - but don't *expect* anyone to > discuss it with you. The list hasn't been around long enough to develop > a *personality*. (Did I speak to late!?!?) > > The list doesn't HAVE a POINT. But the people on it do. > > We gather here and there in the faint glow of Cathode Ray Tubes connected > throughout the world by the wonder of modern man - The Internet - and > discuss computers that are older than 10 years. Some will never again > be seen as useful. As some say - "They can have my DEC, when they pry it > from my cold dead hands!" Some will use them, some will sell them, some > will lurk in the dark corners, some will boil to the surface with an > explosion of estatic joy and/or humor, some will solder little > thingmajiggies together, some will droll on and on about some favorite > piece of hardware or software, some will leave and others will come. It's > called "community" - the one thing man has over all other animals. It > isn't easy, and it isn't hard. There is give and take. Those who give > constantly will be consumed, Those that only take - will eventually be > bored. > > The problem - currently - is Enrico. You have not either explained what > you want (I certainly don't understand) or what you want isn't here. If > you can explain - in terms we can understand - I am sure that your desires > can be fullfilled by this list as well as Sam's (sorry Sam - I see you as > a hardware mogul - more more more 8-) It is usually best, I have found, to > walk into a group and listen to what is being said. If an opportunity > presents itself, interject a question. (I remember that you did this very > well Enrico) Then if the current discussion recognizes your question, in > a positive way, you should then be permitted to state your case. This did > not happen! You should then wait for another opportunity. There is no > rule that if someone shows interest, you can not start you OWN > conversation. Just don't keep it on the list - take it to EMail. If > something important is discussed in private EMail, by all means, if all > concerned agree - put it on the list. This then becomes more than a > single observation and then the impact upon the group has more weight. > > I also get a little perturbed when people state "This Weekends Haul". > I really don't have the time or inclination to read about all the neat > stuff I DID NOT get. I understand the joy and amazement of those of you > who do make great deals (Sam Grrrrrr....) but it only makes me feel more > or less - left out! I usually get one machine (my biggest haul was 12 > clone motherboards - not even NEAR on topic!) and then gather all the > info I can to get it to work the way it was supposed to. Then every six > months I get antsy and fire them all up - just to make sure - and then > spend another month getting them all to work right again. And two months > paying off the electric bill. BUT - I DO want to know what everybody has! > If I need help - I will know who to go to! Right now - I just fire out a > question and get the responses. That is because this is a community. > > Things to remember - every community has a town drunk, a town clown, > a town cop, and a town fool. It wouldn'tbe a community without them. > > BC

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by allisonp＠world.std.com

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by rcini＠msn.com

Allison: >>Seriously I've put may posts here anout the history and lineages of many of the old machines. I collect, but I admit is has to make some sense to me as in useful or have some specific linkage to my place in this >>history. This is so true. In fact, this is how I started collecting. Admittedly, I don't remember many of the early computers; I was too young to remember any of it first-hand. When the Altair came out, I was 8; Bill Gates was 20. I only got to "know" Gary Kildall and Ed Roberts through the books that I read as background for my MBA business case on Microsoft and the computer software industry. Back then, I used the Commodores. In high school, I used {shudder} the Mac (and understood that better). In college, I used PCs, but didn't understand the architecture. I started collecting Commodores because this is the machine that I grew-up on. Then, it snowballed. The Tandy Model 1; Model 100; Datamaster; Apple IIs. Now, almost anything. Since I'm behind the knowledge power curve, I have a lot of catching-up to do! I love hearing about other people's hauls. It inspires me. It makes me want to take back more room in the basement than what was alotted to me by "the boss." It's about the elegant simplicity of design; the basic, nuts-and-bolts usefulness. It's about runnung an OS and an application in 4k of RAM. It's all about preserving the early computer history, so that people like me, people on the fringes of early computers, people who know nothing about where their P233 came from, can see what it was like in the stone-age of computing. Just my $0.02. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini(a)msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 8 months

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classic software for sale

by manney＠nwohio.com

Please send me a pricelist. Also, where (physically) are you? I'm in northern Ohio. Thx Manney

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

c16/Plus4

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >User support here was either through PLUG (Plus/4 Users Group), or Jim Hehl in Anchorage. Plug provided a list of European distributors and Jim was into program conversion (Such popular 64 programs like Speedscript were converted).< Has anybody heard from Jim Hehl recently? Last I heard, he was burned out of his cabin by an Alaskan wildfire! That was probably 1-2 years ago now. Does he still produce for Jack Vanderwhite's publication? >The major bummer about European Plus/4 stuff is alot of it is compressed and locked into PAL mode and thus unviewable on NTSC displays. (Jim & Jack Vandewrwhite had converted some though, I think they are available on funet.fi's FTP., I think the series is called 'ceepee4' something...)< If this stuff is available somewhere, I'd be interested in a full address. Gil Parrish <

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

HHC

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Remember, there are 400 of these HHCs available. Tell a friend!< Sorry, I just got here. What the heck are you talking about?

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

C65 and other commie oddballs...

by more＠camlaw.rutgers.edu

OK OK I can't take it anymore... Being partial to commodores, I can't help but DESIRE to own a C65! Anyone got one? Or better yet, anyone got one they'd sell???? On a side note, I was re-reading a review of the Amiga 4000 and the article mentioned a commodore palmtop that was based on a "PC/CHIP" cpu, had 2 megs of memory and ran Microsoft Works or somehting like that (Oh yeah, it had 2 PCMCIA slots too) I know this (probably) never made it to production but I also know that many a freaky contraption was hauled from the dumpsters when commodore went belly up... (C65's, 128 Laptops, etc.) So, anyone got any oddball commie stuff? LeS more(a)crazy.rutgers.edu PS I missed the supposed free-for-all that took place outside the commodore building in West Chester when they folded. I was just there not too long ago; apparently QVC has gutted the building.... :(

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

farewell

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Enrico, You're absolutely, terribly correct. In our benighted shortsightedness we have been ignoring the core, the soul, nay, the very existentialism of the historical man-machine interface and the personal hygiene of Gary Kildall. These bits of metal and plastic have become a zen-like cyborg interface which has allowed us to ignore the realities of our Jungian existance. Those among us who have perused and then obviously ignored the message of the volume of our times, Gibson & Sterling's _The Difference Engine_, and shall surely rotate on the firey rotissery of Dante's twenty-ninth buglia of the pit, which of course is reserved for those who have committed the terrible sin of coveting thy neighbor's Imsai. How can we claim to discuss the so-called 'collecting' of so-called 'classic' computers when our hypocritical censorious self-righteousness has made us purblind to the fact that 'collect' also purtains to a short prayer comprising an invocation, petition, and conclusion! And 'classic' from the Roman 'classicus' identifies us as citizens of the first rank, who should know better! What this obviously boils down to is the age old conflict of materiality and the health of the soul cleaved by the sword of societal amiguity. In an awful orgy of idolitry we have in a very real and illusive sense integrated these actual bits of, as you put it, metal and plastic into our flesh itself, becoming no more than Waldos while Charles Babbage's heart is ripped >from his chest by ravens dark as toner, eight claws upon each talon. Kai > ---------- > From: e.tedeschi > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 1:07 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: farewell > > Bill Whitson wrote: > > > > Hi Jim. > > > > > I agreed with the new rules until the bit where nobody can say > they disagree. > > > That, and I really don't have time to read the volume coming from > this list. > > > Farewell all, then. If you have questions about apple2 GSs or > Tiger Learning > > > Computers, please feel free to e-mail me personally > > > > Sorry you feel this way. The point wasn't really to prevent you > from > > disagreeing - it was to prevent a flood of responses which might > have > > bogged down the list for days. The whole idea of the new rules was > to > > curb the absolute flood of unsubs that have resulted for the most > part > > due to the constant bickering. We dropped from over 220 members to > 160 > > over the last month. I'm sorry to see you go. > > > > > Bill, please unsubscribe me. > > > > OK. > > > > Bill > > On the contrary, I think that people are unsubscribing because in this > > mailing list about collecting Classic icons there is NOT ENOUGH > discussion about the history of the computing boom and the hows and > whys > that led to it. To just limit the discussion to the mere hardware is > narrow minded and shows the kind of attitude which leads to consider > "the other" (the one which begs to differ) as an enemy or at least as > an > intruder. The "dont' bother us as we know what we should be talking > about" attitude might be legal and understandable but is it wise? > > As already said here several times, computers are bits of metal and > plastic. They are important for the sentiments and the feelings they > managed to raise in each and everybody (and soul) of us. You keep your > > hardware (and I will keep mine so that I can leave it to future > generations) but I will keep my principles and if this will mean I > will > have to do without you, then (I will be sorry but) be it. > > enrico > -- > ================================================================ > Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. > tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile > website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> > ================================================================ > visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm> > >

28 years, 8 months

8
11
0 0

PDP-11 simulator plus V5, V6, and V7 Unix

by dougdu＠MICROSOFT.com

Thought this might be of some interest to list members... - Doug > ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/README > > This directory contains computer simulators developed by Bob Supnik > (bob.supnik(a)ljo.dec.com). > > In ./sources > > sim_2.2d.tar.Z - the simulator sources and documentation > > In ./software > > os8swre.tar.Z - sample OS/8 software and a user license from > DIGITAL > > rdosswre.tar.Z - sample RDOS software and a user license from Data > > General > > uv5swre.tar.Z - sample PDP-11 UNIX V5 software and a user license > from > SCO > > uv6swre.tar.Z - sample PDP-11 UNIX V6 software and a user license > from > SCO > > uv7swre.tar.Z - sample PDP-11 UNIX V7 software and a user license > from > SCO >

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

classic software for sale

by pcoad＠crl.com

I have a bunch of classic DOS software, manuals, and disks for sale. Many are still in shrinkwrap. The list is too large to post to the list. Email me for a complete list including prices and terms. A short selection is below: A04 Visicorp VisiCalc (198?) manual, disks, CDEX training for VisiCalc, shrinkwrap A10 Microsoft Multiplan (1982-3) (green packaging) manual, disks, plastic case, shrinkwrap G10 IBM Technical Reference (1981) hardware reference manual for PC (includes BIOS source) manual, 3 ring binder, slipcase G11 IBM Hardware Maintenance and service Personal Computer - PCjr manual, slipcase C06 IBM Disk Operating System by Microsoft v1.10 (1982) manual in 3 ring binder and slipcase, disk, quick reference card D04 Ashton-Tate DBase III v1.1 (1984) complete (silver cardboard cover slip case) There are a good number of DOS packages, early Microsoft packages, office productivity packages, a few development tools, and some junk. Nearly all are classics. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Zenith Portable Computer ZP-150

by josh＠netins.net

I sure do! Used to own one! It is a laptop simmilar to tandy's 600, except without a floppy. Uses microsoft "Works" integrated software. Nice 80X16 screen. Uses 10 AA batteries, yes TEN! Needs special cable to hook to printer, but shouldn't be hard to make one. Nice to use for a remote (very dumb) terminal. Has internal 300bps modem. Has a few softwares, like the Model 100 does. Hope it helps! Josh M. Nutzman +----------------------------------------------+ |"Life is like a river, you go with the flow...| | but in the end you usually end up dammed." | | -The Red Green Show | +----------------------------------------------+

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

FAQ addition: Repairing Capacitive Keyboards

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

REPAIRING CAPACITIVE KEYBOARDS v1.0 7/10/97 Kai Kaltenbach ---> What are capacitive keyboards? The vast majority of capacitive keyboards were and are manufactured by Keytronics of Spokane, Washington. The mechanism is really quite simple. A keypress pushes a foil circle onto the surface of a printed circuit board, thus completing the circuit and registering the keypress to the computer. Capacitive keyboards are very reliable; however, they will fail over time even if unused. Each foil contact circle is backed by a cylinder of PVC foam. The foam is subject to environmental deterioration. Once the foam loses its elasticity or dissolves entirely, the keys will stop working because the foil circles will no longer make good contact with the PC board. Various classic computer systems, such as the Processor Technology Sol, exhibit this problem after their 20+ year lifespan. ---> How do I tell if I have a capacitive keyboard? Just remove a key cap -- if there is a separate spring under the key cap, around the plunger, it's extremely likely that it's a capacitive keyboard. They won't always say Keytronic on the outside of the keyboard housing. ---> What do I need to start a repair job? First you need a set of replacement foam pads. Each foam pad is a cylinder about 1/4" in diameter and 3/16" long. There is a semi-rigid clear plastic circle attached to one end of the pad, and a foil cylinder attached to the other end. The only toosl you'll need are a #1 Philips screwdriver and a very small standard screwdriver such as those pen-clip types frequently included in computer tool kits (plus whatever tools are necessary to remove the keyboard from its enclosure). ---> Where do I get replacement pads? If you're a perfectionist, you can order replacement pads from Keytronic Corporation (http://www.keytronic.com/). However, it's much easier to simply find a capacitive keyboard in your local computer junk/surplus store and strip it for replacement pads (see above for info on identifying such keyboards). Note: If you're stranded on a desert island with only your computer and a screwdriver, you can get the important keys working again by using pads from the numeric keypad, which is usually in good shape because it's not used very much. ---> OK, I've got all of the necessary items, what are the repair steps? 1. Remove the keyboard from its enclosure. Place on an open workspace. Putting a pad of some type underneath may help avoid marring of the keycaps, but in any case be careful to prevent static discharge if your keyboard model has ICs on the PCB. A ground wrist strap is recommended. Lock up the cats. 2. With the keyboard face-down, remove all of the screws on the back of the PCB (there are a lot!) Don't worry, nothing is going to fall apart when you remove the PCB. 3. Remove the PCB. Place to the side. If it shows any signs of dirt on the contact side, you'll want to clean it with a non-residue, non-lubricating contact cleaner. 4. Identify pads that need replacement. If you're replacing all of the pads, you can skip this step. First, look for any foil circles that are damaged. Then, while looking down the length of the keyboard on the back side, press each row of keys and make sure that each foam pad protrudes sufficiently and cleanly out the back of each key plunger. The most-typed keys are the first to go (return, space, A, E, etc.) When in doubt, replace a pad -- that's a lot of screws to remove to do this over again! Replace pads one at a time. 5. Carefully remove the keycap and spring. There are actually keycap removal tools available, but whatever you use, just make sure to pry >from both sides at once, not just one side. Don't bend the key sideways. 6. Holding the keyboard perpendicular to the table, place the Philips screwdriver into the back of the key plunger and push gently to pop the plunger out the other side. 7. Pick up the plunger. Remove the foam cylinder by inserting a fingernail under the foam cylinder's clear plastic circle. A tiny bit of leverage and it'll pop out. 8. Put the replacement foam cylinder in place. Gingerly use the very small standard screwdriver to pop the clear plastic circle into the plunger by pressing around its outside edge. Be careful not to damage the foam or the foil circle. 9. Replace the plunger in the keyboard chassis. 10. Replace the spring and keycap. Use the very small standard screwdriver to press on the edge of the bottom of the plunger to firmly seat the key cap. 11. Repeat as necessary. Note: If you're skilled at delicate work and have various sized tools available, you can probably replace the foam pads from the back without removing the keycaps, but this is not recommended for beginners.

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

farewell

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

I agreed with the new rules until the bit where nobody can say they disagree. That, and I really don't have time to read the volume coming from this list. Farewell all, then. If you have questions about apple2 GSs or Tiger Learning Computers, please feel free to e-mail me personally Bill, please unsubscribe me. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)calico.litterbox.com -- "...It tells me that goose stepping morons like yourself should try reading books instead of burning them." -Dr. Henry Jones Sr. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

28 years, 8 months

7
9
0 0

1975 PE Altair Article Scans

by rcini＠msn.com

Bill: >>But don't look for it yet. It has been removed for review while I contact >>Ziff-Davis about reprint. I already spoke with the current owners of PE who >>apparently don't own the rights to the old issues. Probably be a couple >>days but I anticipate they'll be happy to let us use it. I hope that they do let us archive them. Frankly, I didn't focus on the fact that the archived article may be considered a "republication". Sorry about that. Does that mean that we would also have to contact Ed Roberts to get his permission to archive a copy of the construction manual? I'll send-up a DS-form on the article scans this afternoon. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

"Bally AstroBreast" and TI collectors

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 12:48 10/07/97 -0500, you wrote: >The machine started off life as the Bally Professional Arcade (Yes, Bally >the pinball & arcade game people (not Bally the bra manufacturer... I >always thought it'd be cool if they were the same company... imagine the >possibilities) HA!HA!HA!HA! Yes, the pinball game where instead of side buttons you have..(immagine). HE!HE!HE! Ok, now a serious IN TOPICS question: Anyone collecting Texas Instruments minis (990 family) and related peripherals like Omni? 810 Printer? Let me know. Bye ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Floppy Disk Media

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Unsurprisingly, the majority of floppy disk magnetic media was/is made by the leaders in audio magnetic media. The two historic giants in that field were BASF and 3M, who independently invented magnetic recording technology. Personally, my favorite floppy brand is Verbatim DataLife Plus. They use a Teflon media coating and are virtually indestructible in normal usage. If you spilled something on one, you just cut the side of the jacket, pulled out the media, washed it in warm soapy water, put it back in another jacket and you were good to go. Kai > ---------- > From: Marvin > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 10:36 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Floppy Disk Media > > Just curious here, does anyone have a list of the MANY brands of > floppy > disks and who the actual manufacturer might be? I got intrigued > several > years ago with the many floppy disks that were available and have been > just setting them aside as I saw interesting ones. So far, I haven't > bothered to catalog them but it is interesting to see the different > jackets. >

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Classic Computer Rescue List Update

by idavis＠comland.com

It has been a month since I started the list, so I guess it's time for an little update. We have quite a few entries so far, and the list really looks good. Only two of us (Brett and myself) have volunteered to have our vehicles repainted, stickers applied, and flashing lights installed. Just keep in mind that this list is strictly that, just a list. No one is comitted to do anything, but we are all here in the interest of preservation, so anything you can do will help. I, as well as everyone on the list has a limit to what they will/can haul and ship if necessary. We all pretty much have the same goals and limitations. If you are not on the list, and want to be added, feel free to email me. On a side note, I have also added a second page with a list of items that have been saved. If someone contacts you through the list and you manage to save something, go ahead and let me know. I will add it to the page. If you cannot get to the web page, or know someone who wants a copy, I can email it to you/them. Thanks for all of the entries. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis(a)comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis(a)juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Gateway 2000 Buys Amiga

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 09:48 PM 7/9/97 GMT, you wrote: >the Amiga? Even the video editing/effects market seems to have turned >towards Apple machines. And even Apple itself is finding selling >difficult in the face of the Wintel machines. I'd be willing to bet that GW2K is after the video toaster technology (yes, I know it's a separate company). It is a pretty hot system, at least according to friends who do that sort of thing. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Gateway 2000 Buys Amiga

by BNICALEK＠aol.com

Collectors: All this talk about the Amiga's got me thinking about what I read in the "Amiga Format" magazine (which they still have subscriptions for). Apparently Gateway 2000 has purchased the Amiga name, but from what I hear, has no real plans for implementation on a new product at the moment. What there are however, are old A1200's or something like that (I'm not to familiar with the Amiga line) going for sale as "remanufactured". Also curious to see if people out there would be interested in seeing Amiga create a new "home computer" which would incorporate educational, productivity and entertainment titles into one package with Internet connectivity. Any thoughts? You can write me personally if you prefer. Bryan Nicalek bnicalek(a)aol.com

28 years, 8 months

7
9
0 0

"Bally Astrocade"

by coslor＠pscosf.peru.edu

Hello: I recently picked up two old game system units that i really don't know a whole lot about. I am hoping some you you may be able to fill me in on soem more information. 1) This unit is label "APF tv fun" pn the front. It has a knob with four game selection possibilities, on/off switch/ start button, angle setting, bat size setting, and ball speed setting. It appears this is an old Tennis/baseball type of game unit. It also appears that the actual controllers on on the main unit in the form of knobs. It saw it was made in Japan by APF Electronics, Inc. although I can't find a year. Could anyone help there? It also says underneath TV FUN Model No. 401A and seriel number is S- 052193. Finally it has the TV channell selector (3 or 4) and battery storage unit to run it off batteries. Could anyone please give me some more information on this, and also info. on if it might have some value out there or interest from any of you? 2) This looks like a 'golden oldie'. This also is a self contained game unit. It came complete with two odd looking joysticks, although the machine has ports for four joysticks. On the front it has a calculator looking button pad and to the right of that is a cassette insertion place along with an eject and reset button. Behing all of this is a storage compartment for several cassettes, complete with hard palstic cover for this area as well.I also have an overlay that says Astrocade BASIC (c) 1978 Astrocade, Inc.? This apparently goes with a cassette for the unit that says " BASIC, Computer Programming Cartridge with Built-In Interface (c) 1981 Astrocade, Inc. " On the cassette is a small like and an audio cassette Jack (in/out) -- also came witha small microphone.On the underside it says Astrocade Arcade Model ABA-1000-2 with a seriel # of 020777 and Astrovision, Inc, Garner, Iowa also on the bottom. Again, would any of you know more information on this unit, and if it might have some value out there to collectors? Are any of you interested? I only paid $5 for both of the above items, and I guess I am willing to entertain propositions if anyone wants them. Please let me know. Oh, yes, are there other cassettes available for the Astrocade? Are the above units very common these days? Thanks, CORD COSLOR //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*//

28 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

Zenith Portable Computer ZP-150

by dastar＠crl.com

Anyone know much about the Zenith Portable Computer ZP-150? I'm possibly buying one this weekend and want to know a little about it before I go through all the trouble. Thanks! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

"Bally Astrocade"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> 1) This unit is label "APF tv fun" pn the front. It has a knob with fou > game selection possibilities, on/off switch/ start button, angle settin > bat size setting, and ball speed setting. It appears this is an old > Tennis/baseball type of game unit. It also appears that the actual > controllers on on the main unit in the form of knobs. It saw it was mad > in Japan by APF Electronics, Inc. although I can't find a year. Could > anyone help there? It also says underneath TV FUN Model No. 401A and that's the oldie of the bunch! Early game machines from the mid '70 were the tennis/pong type and used a few chips. their logic was a mix of digital and analog. My guess would be 75-77 timeframe. It would be some years before the tvgames would go the microprocessor route to get the the first ataris and company. Allison

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Crappadore 64

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 03:19 PM 7/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >> That's funny...a computer facelift. > > Actually, a number of companies offered the same type of thing for the >ZX-81/Timex-Sinclair 1000. It was to give the computer a real keyboard And the Atari ST -- to put it in a tower case, among other things. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

Heathkit Hero 1/2000

by rcini＠msn.com

Just out of curiosity (isn't that a great lead-in??), how much would an old Heath Hero 1000/2000 robot go for?? They seem relatively scarce, but I would like to get one to support my renewed interest in robotics. Just what I need, another hobby... ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

(fwd) FS: Commodore SuperPet SP9000 (Runs Fine) $100 (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

Maybe someone is interested in this. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Chris Glackin" <cglackin(a)msn.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: FS: Commodore SuperPet SP9000 (Runs Fine) $100 For Sale: Commodore SuperPet SP9000 ($100) For sale by private owner Located in Farmington Hills, Michigan Prefer Pickup/Cash Only $100 PLEASE DIRECT ALL INQUIRIES TO: CGLACKIN(a)MSN.COM 1 Commodore Superpet SP9000 Turns on and seems to run fine * I can't verify the operation of any of the edge connectors due to lack of accessories, but I have turned it on and written some simple BASIC programs that run fine in 6502 and 6809 mode Has both 6502 and 6809 boards with toggle switches on side Green Monochrome trapezoid shaped screen works fine Original piezo speaker sound still works great Keyboard works great Case is in pretty good condition * No dents or major marks, a few minor scratches that could be touched up The 'hood' lifts fine, doesn't even squeak, and has the original stick inside to hold it up - just like a car hood (anyone ever make a miniature drop light for the Pet series?) ** I do not have ANY manuals or accessories for this computer When this computer is turned on, a menu comes up with a list of programming languages to select from. At the top of the screen it says: WATERLOO MICROSYSTEMS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I learned to program in 6502 assembly language on the Pet 2001 w/ a 4040 dual disk drive unit in 1981. I never even knew of a SuperPet until I found this one waiting for the Sanitation Engineers on a curb a few years ago. I thought it was the regular old Pet when I saw it from afar. So I picked it up and carried it home - an excruciating half mile journey. If you are one who remembers lifting a Pet, you know what I'm talking about! I figured I'd relive some of the ol' days and actually put some sort of working system together, but there just isn't any time left in this SDK-A-MINUTE computer world. I have met others online that love their Pet's -- and other various computer antiques -- and seem to enjoy keeping them running, so perhaps this SuperPet can find a much more deserving home. The serial number is SP0000284. Is this the 284th SuperPet off the line? Out of how many? Is it related to HAL? If anyone knows the answers, I'd love to hear them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- E-MAIL: CGLACKIN(a)MSN.COM Commodore SuperPet SP9000 for $100 -- Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Amigas and PETs...

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

RE: CD-32 and Amiga w/drive on the side... The CD32 is actually an Amiga 1200 not the more limited 600. The 1200 has the more advanced AGA graphics chipset (and a 68020 processor). There are expansion units (SX-1 I think is the name of them) readily available to bump the CD32 up to a full-fledged 1200. You can easily adapt an IBM clone 'box' power supply to use on the 500. I have my Amiga 500 and hard drive wired into one. (the hardest part would be finding an Amiga 500 power connector) The 500 is a great computer and one of the easiest to expand, (except for the 2000). You can find alot of good projects on the internet for it. ===-===--===---=-=-=-=-=-===---===--- >From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> >Subject: Pet Serial Numbers >Just curious if anyone knows what the starting serial number was for the >Commodore Pets? So far, the following are the earliest Pets I have. I >believe these both came from the local university at one of their sales. My oldest is in the 14000 area IIRC. It is an original 8k unit (the tape drives with it were butchered Sanyo units, so it was'nt too late in the productiion run.) --==-=-=-=--=--=--=====--=--==--=-= >From: Cord Coslor <coslor(a)pscosf.peru.edu> >Subject: c-16 and Plus/4 >I remember seeing a post here a week or two ago asking about the >availability of Commodore 16 and Plus/4 cartridges. I response, I >gathered, was that they were not very common here in teh United States, >and seemed just altogether uncommon.... maybe even some doubt as to the >actual number of titles created. >Recently, I picked up my first c-16 / Plus/4 cart -- it was Scott Adams >adventure game Strange Odyssey sold by Commodore. This titles was not >mentioned by those on this listserv. It was one of the set of eight I had bought (all with the commodore brand name on em), I probably didn't mention it cause I don't remember all the titles... (I am reconing they are in the outside storage closet which is currently inhabited by wasps...) *bummer* >Anyway, I also have a TON of other titles that I have been using for some >time on my PC emulator called Minus/4. A very good emulator. So, I guess >what I am finally getting at is it seems there actually WERE a lot of >different titles created for these machines, though I do not know the >actual numbers of titles, quantities, or popularity in the US. Could >anyone out there fill us in on some facts? Besides Magic Carpet Software, Data-20 (responsible for the +3 productivity programs in the +4s ROM), and Progressive Software (Superbase is available for the Plus/4!) I didnt hear of all that much stuff put out in the U.S. Europe on the other hand has had a great following with the Plus/4 and C-16, most of the programs I would safely guess are from there. User support here was either through PLUG (Plus/4 Users Group), or Jim Hehl in Anchorage. Plug provided a list of European distributors and Jim was into program conversion (Such popular 64 programs like Speedscript were converted). The major bummer about European Plus/4 stuff is alot of it is compressed and locked into PAL mode and thus unviewable on NTSC displays. (Jim & Jack Vandewrwhite had converted some though, I think they are available on funet.fi's FTP., I think the series is called 'ceepee4' something...) >I just don't have the experience in these machines needed to accurately >inform others. >Finally, does anyone have a c-16 or Plus/4 machine for sale or trade. I >just have this one cartridge, but I have a burning desire to acquire one >or more of these machines. Please let me know. Actually.... YES! I picked up one a couple weeks back and will sell it to you for the price I paid ($2.95) plus shipping (USPS, $10 or so...) It comes in its box with a Power Supply (I don't think I have any extra manuals, sorry). I just powered it up and it does work (though there is a strange wire hanging out; looking on the motherboard I would assume it was for a utility cart or something. Regardless it doesn't affect operation.) E-mail me if interested. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

HHC

by dastar＠crl.com

Yea! Thanks to Ted Birdsell's reservation we reached the 100 mark! (This is like a Jerry Lewis telethon.) C'mon, let's squeeze out 50 more! I know you all can do it!!! :) I'm thinking about putting an advertisement on some usenet groups to get some more response. I'm going to advertise them at $15 plus shipping. Please do not get alarmed. Of course I will be making a profit. Remember, there are 400 of these HHCs available. Tell a friend! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

(fwd) Petition for UNIX Src License - status

by bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com

I thought this would be interesting. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- In alt.folklore.computers, wkt(a)hennry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) wrote: %The petition urging SCO to make source code licenses for 6th and 7th Edition %UNIX (and their relations) is going well, with over 200 signatures on the %petition so far. However, we still need your support to encourage SCO to act. % %If you ever used UNIX on a PDP-11, own a copy of John Lions Commentary %(legal or otherwise), believe that these systems are historically %interesting, or even if you think owning a source code license to a %REAL UNIX would be cool, then please SIGN THE PETITION at % % http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/petition.html % %If you know anybody else who might be prepared to sign this petition, %then ___pass this message onto them___. Finally, check out the home page %of the PDP-11 UNIX Preservation Society at % % http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ % %Many thanks in advance, % % Warren Toomey wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au % %

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

1975 PE Altair Article Scans

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: Here's one for you...a kind sole that I know on CompuServe was kind enough to produce color scans of the original MITS Altair article from the 1/75 issue of Popluar Electronics. I posted it yesterday on the Classic Computer ftp site under the name altarmag.zip. The file is big (3.7mb), containing about 9 jpgs. Wait till you see the color! I'm also working on this guy to prepare Adobe PDF scans of the original Altair construction manual and schematics. I've seen some scans previously, but they have shadows, etc. Hopefully, these will be of similar quality to the mag scans. When I've got them, I'll post a message. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Books

by manney＠nwohio.com

Does anyone want Intel's book, "Assembly language programming" for the 8080 and 8085 chip? Free, U pay postage.

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

I would like to unsubscribel

by ynagasaw＠ic.sunysb.edu

How can I unsubscribe? Thank you, Yujin

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Machines on the way to the dump...

by dbetz＠xlisper.mv.com

I'm taking the following machines to the dump on Saturday. If anyone is within striking distance of Bedford, NH and wants any of these machines please let me know. TI-99/4a (doesn't work) A few TI cartridges and books Heathkit H-11 (works) Heathkit dual 8" disk drive unit (doesn't work) Vector V3-5036 S-100 system (works) Vector dual 5.25" disk drive unit (untested) VT-100 clone -- David Betz dbetz(a)xlisper.mv.com DavidBetz(a)aol.com (603) 472-2389

28 years, 9 months

1
1
0 0

Machines on the way to the dump...

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

David, or anyone who's going to drop by David's place... I'd pay for packing/shipping for any of the Heathkit or Vector equipment that others don't want to keep. Kai > ---------- > From: David Betz > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 1997 7:40 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Machines on the way to the dump... > > I'm taking the following machines to the dump on Saturday. If anyone > is > within striking distance of Bedford, NH and wants any of these > machines > please let me know. > > TI-99/4a (doesn't work) > A few TI cartridges and books > Heathkit H-11 (works) > Heathkit dual 8" disk drive unit (doesn't work) > Vector V3-5036 S-100 system (works) > Vector dual 5.25" disk drive unit (untested) > VT-100 clone > > -- > David Betz > dbetz(a)xlisper.mv.com > DavidBetz(a)aol.com > (603) 472-2389 >

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Bad Feelings...

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

>From: "e.tedeschi" <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Why? >Well, to get more specific, I have the (perhaps wrong) feeling that: > a) You are against collectors who collect for the historical importance > onyl and are not really worried if the item works or not (as long as all > the parts are in there and the thing can be made to work if and when > required). I have been ridiculized when I suggested this one way to go > about collecting. I have never felt that here, and I have several items in my collection in non-working order. Would I give up my P-500, MTU VMM board, or SuperPET if I never got them fixed? NO! I would hope to get them fixed but the important thing now is to get them, mainly because it is part of the 'collection' if they work, wonderful, if they don't they still has meaning. > b) You are against collectors who want ot take out bits and pieces from > the systems in order to show them separately (but retaining and perhaps > even ehibiting the "crippled" item). I have been refused help in thsi > respect when it became apparent I was going to do this. I think that may be personal views by individual collectors and not by the group in whole. Some feel that not having 'original parts' or add-ons is blasphmey. I can understand and appreciate where you come from, there are compnents of computers that are shear art as the disk controller in the apple II (from what I read the board was drawn 'not designed by computer' by Steve Wozniac.) I would be interested to learn more about it. There have been chips that have amazed me too. Everyone has their own intrest. The only reason you are perceiving otherwise is that those people are the ones that are posting more, from years of running an BBS as well as participating on the group, the more you post messages the more attention and notoriety you will receive. If you want to see something written about an interest of yours, sometimes you just have to sit down and write it yourself. > c) You are against helping "foreigners" (and therefore "different") > collectors to export "your" stuff perhaps in the wrong perception that > it will diminish the heritage of the country (yours). I have striken a > deal with one of the subscriber here and he disappeared in the distance > after a while (he did not answer anymore...) By the way does anybody > need British stuff? I would be glad to help you with it. I reply to what I know (some times I also replay to what I don't know and put my foot in the mouth in the process). If you see anyone post about Commodores or PETs more specifically, you can be sure within a day or so a response from me will follow (unless it is something I am totally in the dark about). Case in point, Exidy Sorceror, I purchased one and sent it to Sam Ismael, he is now looking for information, not very many people ever seen one, much less an ad for one, sometimes the best we can do is quiote from old magazine ads. :/ Also some of the sytems are regional and there may not be many people from that area who have seen that particular machine on this list... > Of course I have no proof of the above but from the short experience I > had here, I think that the problem exhists as opposed to the "openess" > of other American collecting groups like, for example, the radio > collecting community which has been VERY helpful with me and other > "foreigners" to buy and export stuff from the USA and CANADA (what about > the stuff you ARE importing from overseas then?). I have sent fellow users disks and cartridges through the mail to Europe, anything larger I could not afford the shipping. This depends on the individual. Sam was lucky to get me to shop the Sorcer as quick as I did, I myself lothe shipping things, especially heavy/bulky things. I think that again depends on the individual. > I think that if you think I am wrong the best way to demonstrate it, if > you care, is not with words but with facts. > Thank you for your interest > enrico You are very welcome and hope you keep with the list and help us all to work out this misunderstanding. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 9 months

18
52
0 0

Micro-Expander Model 1 S100 system

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Scott Ware <s-ware(a)nwu.edu> writes: > The main unit is a single piece about the size of a Processor Technology > Sol. I believe this may be a Big Clue. Isn't the Expander one of the things that Lee Felsenstein designed between Processor Technology and Osborne? I also seem to remember that it was primarily marketed in Europe. Good catch! -Frank McConnell

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Encryptor Board...

by MPritchard＠ensemble.net

> > Currently no one knows (or is saying they know) how to encrypt 7800 > > carts. > > > > Actually, I seem to recall that a guy in rec.games.video.classic has > figured it out, but there hasn't been any practical application of it > yet. But I haven't read r.g.v.c in a LONG time, so things may have > changed... > > I wish I could remember his name... he was one of the big cheese > techie > types in the newsgroup that was always hacking up weird stuff, so I > don't > doubt that he did it. > ------- > > My good friend, Bruce Tomlin, was the person who did that. > > -Mp

28 years, 9 months

6
5
0 0

Matchpoint?

by bcoakley＠teleport.com

Browsing a local thrift, I found a box containing a "Matchpoint" card. Apparently it's a PC card which allows you to read Apple disks, via an ISA card and some software. Has anyone ever used one? Is it worth finding a 5 1/4" drive for my PeeCee? Also, does anybody have a spare Apple 25-pin-to-19-pin drive cable? (Or are all those pins supposed to be broken?) Thanks, -- Ben Coakley CBEL: Xavier OH bcoakley(a)teleport.com http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Pet Serial Numbers

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

My PET 2001-8 is a 240V version and has serial number 1008669. There is also a hand texta number on the board itself 38658 ---------- > From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Pet Serial Numbers > Date: Wednesday, July 09, 1997 9:53 AM > > Just curious if anyone knows what the starting serial number was for the > Commodore Pets? So far, the following are the earliest Pets I have. I > believe these both came from the local university at one of their sales. > > Description Model Serial # > Commodore Pet Pet 2001-8 0035117 > Commodore Pet Pet 2001-8 0037625

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Panasonic Handhelds

by dastar＠crl.com

This is the last call. On Friday I will be forwarding the final count to Mike. For the benefit of those who haven't seen this yet (and for those asking for more information) here is a casual spec of the Panasonic HandHeld Computers that we are about to get a bunch of: This computer came out around 1984. It was a handheld unit which featured: 6502 processor 8K RAM (the "top-of-the-line" model) 3 slots for 8K program EPROM on-board Custom built tray to hold 10 additional 8K EPROMS Tray also housed both computer and printer to make one compact unit Printer is 40-column thermal (paper can still be found allegedly) Full "QWERTY" keyboard FORTH-like language in ROM called "SNAP" Measures 9" x 3.5" Some manuals available Bunch of MCM 68674 8K EPROMs with programs on them AC Adaptor Now on to the original message. Instructions follow for reserving one, two or many for yourself. Read on. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 10:52:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl4.crl.com> To: Classic Computer Discussion <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: Panasonic Handhelds PANASONIC HANDHELD UPDATE: This is the latest message from Mike who has the hundreds of Panasonic HandHeld computers. In case its not obvious what's going on, I put in an offer of $10 each for 50, $9 each for 100, $8 each for 150, etc. I don't have $2000 lying around with which to buy them all up. I have a plan, but first read what Mike had to say: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 10:39:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikeooo1(a)aol.com To: dastar(a)crl.com Subject: Re: EPROM Burners re: Classic Computers Dear Sam, I believe the total number of HHC's available will be about 400.Based on your offer I assume that for 150 of the units you would be willing to pay at the rate of $10 for the first 50,$9 for the next 50, $8 for the next 50 and $7 for the next 50 whcih would come to $1700 for 200 units.Would you be interested in 300 units for $2000 even?To make the offer even sweeter I'll throw in the memory expander trays with each unit.The cost for each tray alone was well over $100 when they were purchased,as well as a quantity of the MCM 68674 8K eprom chips that the programs were written on. As always Best Regards, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ END FORWARD So here's my plan...anyone and everyone who is interested, reply to ME (do not reply to classiccmp! People will hate you and want to drown your pets!) telling me how many you want. Do this soon. I will save all of your e-mails and then at the end of say, 10 days I will tally up the total and make Mike an offer. So again... Reply to ME only (dastar(a)crl.com) Tell me HOW MANY of the Panasonic HandHeld Computers you want. Do it SOON. You have about [2] days. Price will be NO MORE THAN $10 EACH. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Pet Serial Numbers

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

The Canonical List of Commodore Products doesn't go into serial number schemes... my 2001-8 is serial # 80684, no leading zeroes... could be a different numbering scheme entirely. Kai > ---------- > From: Marvin[SMTP:marvin@rain.org] > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 4:53 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Pet Serial Numbers > > Just curious if anyone knows what the starting serial number was for > the > Commodore Pets? So far, the following are the earliest Pets I have. > I > believe these both came from the local university at one of their > sales. > > Description Model Serial # > Commodore Pet Pet 2001-8 0035117 > Commodore Pet Pet 2001-8 0037625 >

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

FAQ Bonanza

by bill＠booster.bothell.washington.edu

============================================================================= DO NOT DISPOSE OF THIS PART OF THE FAQ. THIS IS THE PART THAT EXPLAINS HOW YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE. IT WILL TAKE ME MORE TIME TO DO THESE THINGS FOR YOU THAN IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO DO THEM YOURSELF ============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 1 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy Mail/Internet Basics FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.2 Last Update: 7/01/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu>. The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 1 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with the use of mailing lists and internet-specific tools. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://weber.u. washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.27 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as classiccmp.faq. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: New Sections: 2.1, 3.1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Mailing Lists ---------------- 1.1 Mailing List Basics 1.2 How to Talk to the Robot How to set to Digest How to Subscribe How to Unsubscribe 2. FTP ------ 2.1 FTP Basics 3. World Wide Web ----------------- 3.1 WWW Basics ============================================================================= 1.1 Mailing List Basics A mailing list is a simple device which takes an e-mail and redistributes it to a group of people. People can add and remove themselves from the distribution list by Subscribing and Unsubscribing. When you send a message to the list, it is first examined by the robot for key words that tell it to process an automatic funtion (like help, subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). If the message does not contain a keyword it is sent to the distribution list. 1.2 How to Talk to the Robot There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to use. To send a command to the list processor, write a message to listproc(a)u.washington.edu (Do NOT send the message to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu). In the body of the message (not the subject line, that is) write one of the following commands, then send the message. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. This is the default. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. I don't recommend this. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages rather than each as it is posted. With this option you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep a nice, tidy in-box. SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Subscribes you to the list. UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Removes you from the list. [][][][][][][][][][] 2.1 FTP Basics FTP is a protocol by which files can be transferred over the internet. You can use FTP to connect to a remote site and retrieve files. The commands you use with FTP depend on the software you use. In general you must make sure that you are in BINARY mode before transferring a program file or compressed files. The process of downloading a file is usually termed GET and the process of uploading a file is usually termed PUT. Your FTP program will require an address to connect to. For the ClassicCmp site that address is 140.142.225.27. You then may be asked to log in (unless your program assumes an anonymous login). When asked for a name, use anonymous. When asked for a password enter your internet e-mail address. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 WWW Basics The only complicated thing with the WWW is knowing what bells and whistles your web browser supports. You don't really need to know much other than the address for ClassicCmp. The web site is all text which means just about any web browser from the oldest Lynx to the newest Netscape or Microsoft browser should support it. The ClassicCmp site is http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html. =============================================================================

28 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

old 80286

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:30 AM 7/8/97 -0400, you wrote: ><< I have a LAPTOP 80286. Can I connect to INTERNET with it? > Does any Winsock exist? >there is a program out in the shareware world called nettamer which will let >you do mail and text only web browsing. i plan to use it on my ps2 model 30 There is also a program called "Arachne" which does graphical web browsing under DOS. (I use it when working on web pages under DOS -- far more efficient and faster than loading windoze and using a windows editor!) I believe it also works with some TCP/IP stack for DOS, but I've not really looked into that. P.S. the NetTamer home page is at <http://people.delphi.com/davidcolston/> and there's a whole passel of DOS Browser/etc. info at <http://www.concentric.net/~Cruzing/dosinet/dosinet.shtml>. Hope this helps! P.P.S. you can, of course, use a shell account with pine, tin, lynx, etc. with just about any computer that can hook up to a modem. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Encryptor Board...

by MPritchard＠ensemble.net

The 7800 is actually '83 or '84 developed. A small number were sold then, and the rest sat in warehouses for a couple years. seriously! -Mp > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Ismail [SMTP:dastar@crl.com] > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 1997 6:06 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Encryptor Board... > > On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote: > > > > the Encryptor, Jones Futura Corporation, Model ENC 100-1 > > > > California Computer Systems, Model 2832 [has this big, black 3"x3" > square > > > and 3/8" thick block of resin on it, have no idea what it's > hiding] > > NOTE: The description above is of two, separate cards. > > > I was reading in the Atari Game Systems FAQ that the 7800 carts are > > encrypted with a special encryption and only those encrypted games > get > > access to the 7800's advanced video resources (otherwise it just > gets > > 2600 resources)... This was a measure by Atari to make sure to get > a > > share of the profits from 3rd party game developers. There could be > a > > slight possibility this is an encryption unit for the 7800 game > > system... > > Hmmm. Interesting hypothesis. However, these boards are circa 1983, > while the 7800 is circa 1986 or something. > > I'll go repost a request for info on the atari newsgroups. > > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, > Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Encryptor Board...

by MPritchard＠ensemble.net

> I was reading in the Atari Game Systems FAQ that the 7800 carts are > encrypted with a special encryption and only those encrypted games get > access to the 7800's advanced video resources (otherwise it just gets > 2600 resources)... This was a measure by Atari to make sure to get a > share of the profits from 3rd party game developers. There could be a > slight possibility this is an encryption unit for the 7800 game > system... > > Currently no one knows (or is saying they know) how to encrypt 7800 > carts. > > Larry Anderson > > We've reverse enginnered the encryption. I forget the specifics: It > was some sort of Public + Private key deal. The key size was 120 > *bytes* Not all of a cartridge needs to be encrypted (as little as > 4K can be encrypted). Massive overkill for the time. No one has > reported finding the keys yet. Probably never will. > > -Mp

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

which month?

by MPritchard＠ensemble.net

The name of the book was something like that, I'll have to dig it up.. -Mp > -----Original Message----- > From: Cord Coslor [SMTP:coslor@pscosf.peru.edu] > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 1997 10:11 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: which month? > > What was the name of that book? Wasn't it something about a mouse? > Like, > To Catch a Mouse, Make a Noise Like A Cheese? > > Curious to know. > > Thanks, > > CORD > > //*=================================================================== > ==++ > || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, > NE || > || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu > 68421-0308 || > || Classic computer software and hardware collector > || > || Autograph collector > || > ++==================================================================== > =*// > > > On Sat, 28 Jun 1997, Matt Pritchard wrote: > > > I have a book about marketing, written by a Tandy VP which has a > large > > chapter on the birh of the TRS-80. He mentioned the day of the > first > > produced unit, (sept 15th I think) and game totals for the first > months > > or two (It seemed they only managed 3 computer a day for the first > week > > or two). > > -Mp > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: bwit(a)pobox.com [SMTP:bwit@pobox.com] > > > Sent: Friday, June 27, 1997 11:51 AM > > > To: 'classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu' > > > Subject: RE: which month? > > > > > > > > > IIRC the TRS-80 was introduced in September 1977. > > > > > > ---------- > > > From: e.tedeschi > > > Sent: Friday, June 27, 1997 7:39 AM > > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: which month? > > > > > > I wonder if anybody here has the *exact* months of introduction > > > of the > > > three first *real* home computers introduced in 1977: > > > > > > a) the Apple II > > > b) the Tandy TRS-80 > > > c) the Commodore Pet > > > > > > I need them for a book on collecting home computers I am > > > researching > > > for. > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > enrico > > > -- > > > ================================================================ > > > Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. > > > tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile > > > website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e..tedeschi> > > > ================================================================ > > > visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm> > > > > > > > >

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Banning People From the List

by bill＠booster.bothell.washington.edu

OK. I've been away this weekend for the funeral of my grandfather who passed away last week. I was thrilled to come back and find my mailbox filled with threads dealing with personal disputes (much was thankfully kept off the list). I cannot continue to run this list if I have to constantly mediate situations in which adults are acting childishly. Therefore I am instituting the 1 warning rule: If you post something insulting/immature/inflammatory and I receive a complaint you will receive a warning. If you then do so again within a months time I will eject you. Please do not follow up on this message to the list. If you need to follow up send me personal mail. If you have important comments regarding this rule that you feel I am censoring send me a copy of the message and I will make it available to list members. If you follow up to this to the list regarding its unfairness consider that your warning for this month. ---------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson - Classic Computers ListOp bill(a)booster.u.washinton.edu or bcw(a)u.washington.edu http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw PS. I _really_ did not want to have to do this.

28 years, 9 months

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old 80286

by clark_geisler＠nortel-nsm.com

IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu wrote: > I wrote: >> Sort of in the spirit of this list, I set up this configuration for >> Internet >> e-mail: >> >> - 8 MHz 80286 AT clone desktop >[[[ snip ]]] >> With this, we can do e-mail, and text-based internet stuff (I've got >> Windows telnet and ftp programs as well), but graphic web browsing >> is out (they all require a 386 or better). > >Have you taken a look at Arachne? I've not run it on anything but my >trusty office 486 yet, but it claims to be able to run on anything >PCish. Yes, I looked at, but didn't try out Arachne. It's documentation said you had to have a 386 to do graphical stuff. Might be a better text web browser than Nettamer, though. Clark.

28 years, 9 months

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old 80286

by clark_geisler＠nortel-nsm.com

Jordi Carceller (jordicr(a)eic.ictnet.es) wrote: >I have a LAPTOP 80286. Can I connect to INTERNET with it? > >Does any Winsock exist? > >Which is the best software for MAIL and WWW? (using a 286, of course) Sort of in the spirit of this list, I set up this configuration for Internet e-mail: - 8 MHz 80286 AT clone desktop - 4 Meg RAM (all the SIP sockets are filled) - 20 Meg Seagate ST-225 MFM hard disk (C) - 30 Meg Seagate ST-238R RLL hard disk (D) running from its own RLL controller stolen from an XT clone my brother-in-law tossed my way. I had a lot of fun getting it to work in the AT clone. - Trident super VGA video - DOS 6, Windows 3.1 (barely fits on C). - older Trumpet Winsock (version 2.something) - Eudora e-mail (was using version 1.44, now using Eudora Light version 3.01 which is slower, but has a feature I needed that 1.44 didn't have). - 2400 bps US Robotics Courier external modem (that I paid $700 for new in 1985!) With this, we can do e-mail, and text-based internet stuff (I've got Windows telnet and ftp programs as well), but graphic web browsing is out (they all require a 386 or better). I haven't found a text, Windows-based web browser. I've also used Nettamer. It is a DOS-based internet package. To run internet stuff in DOS, you usually need to put together several pieces of software: TCP/IP, PPP or SLIP dialler, packet drivers, etc. Nettamer does all this in one package and does e-mail, ftp, telnet, Usenet, and web browsing. Web browsing is basically text-only, but you can view graphics with an included viewer if you've got a VGA display. The version I tried (1.07) doesn't do frames or image-maps, and forms are a bit brutal. For example, I've used the Altavista search form with it, but I'd probably be pretty confused if I hadn't used the form in Netscape on another computer beforehand. You should be able to find Nettamer on Simtelnet and other software archives. So, you will probably want to use Nettamer instead of the Windows route unless: - you've got a decent amount of RAM (4 meg was quite a lot for a 286) - you've got enough hard disk space - you have to have a GUI. Right now, we just use the e-mail, when we absolutely have to have graphic web browsing, we'll buy a new Pentium machine. Or maybe I'll find a 386 motherboard for free... Hope this helps, Clark Geisler

28 years, 9 months

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old 80286

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Sort of in the spirit of this list, I set up this configuration for > Internet > e-mail: > > - 8 MHz 80286 AT clone desktop [[[ snip ]]] > With this, we can do e-mail, and text-based internet stuff (I've got > Windows telnet and ftp programs as well), but graphic web browsing > is out (they all require a 386 or better). Have you taken a look at Arachne? I've not run it on anything but my trusty office 486 yet, but it claims to be able to run on anything PCish. http://www.naf.cz/arachne/ It's also being distributed by Caldera as WebSpyder http://www.caldera.com/ Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 9 months

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Extra chip on M8186

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> The Floating Point socket will take either a KEF11-AA chip which > holds floating point microcode, or you can plug a FPF11 board in next > to the CPU and run the jumper cable to the socket. The FPF11 is > 5 to 6 times faster than a KEF11-AA (and was accordingly more expensive I have machines with both and the difference is noticeable even with fairly simple stuff. > I think a Commercial Instruction Set (CIS) microcode option may have be > available as well, but I've never seen it installed. I'd guess it > would've plugged into the "Spare" socket. My 11/23b(+) has the CIS and FPP board. The CIS goes into spare. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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Extra chip on M8186

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

I found a picture of another M8186 on the internet. It has one chip on it, the CPU (Dual chips on a single carrier). The other 3 sockets are blank. Mine has 2 chips. CPU BLANK BLANK CHIP. I don't have the M8186 in front of me, but does anyone know what the extra chip is for?

28 years, 9 months

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old 80286

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-08 09:35:55 EDT, you write: jordi carceller wrote: << I have a LAPTOP 80286. Can I connect to INTERNET with it? Does any Winsock exist? Which is the best software for MAIL and WWW? (using a 286, of course) Greetings, Jordi Carceller jordicr(a)eic.ictnet.es >> there is a program out in the shareware world called nettamer which will let you do mail and text only web browsing. i plan to use it on my ps2 model 30 just to say i did it. david

28 years, 9 months

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Extra chip on M8186

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> I found a picture of another M8186 on the internet. It has one chip on > it, the CPU (Dual chips on a single carrier). The other 3 sockets are > blank. Mine has 2 chips. CPU BLANK BLANK CHIP. I don't have the M818 > in front of me, but does anyone know what the extra chip is for? >FRom the edge of the board in toward the middle its MMU, spare, floatingpoint, data/control. A minimal board will have data/control double as that's the F11 cpu. It will only be a 16 bit address. The MMU is was nearly standard and gave 18/22 bit addressing. Floating point was in two forms FIS chip, Floatingpoint Instruction Set which were microcode for floating point instructions or the M8188 module that actually did floating point in hardware (2901s!). Other options are the CIS or Commercial instruction set (aka cobal instruction set) and there was writeable control store if you wanted to write custom microcode for things like bitblting or emulation. The 11/23 did not have I&D space like the later J-11 cpus. The liniage for chip-11s is LSI11/03 (kd11-f quad width), LSI-11/2 (dual width KD-11), LSI-11/23a (KDF-11A dual width), LSI11/23b(+) (KDF-11B quad width), Then J-11 series. Note while the books said the 11/23a (kdf-11a) was 18 bit I have found many will operate as 22 bit. The KDF-11b was 22 bit addressing. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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SMTP import error #-5

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

On 0 xxx 1980 MAILER-DAEMON(a)nwohio.nwohio.com wrote: > > here's the choice: My 486 or the PDP? > > Hey - I'll take that 486 8-) But it would be a LOT harder to get another PDP than another 486. > I don't think V7 would fit on a RX02 - maybe an RL02. What you probably > want is RT-11. Single user but with Foreground/Background tasking. Or > you could try TSX? which is a multi-user RT-11 kinda sort of 8-) I have > heard of but not seen one of these. Email me if you decide what you want. Hmm... There's an RX02 boot though. Maybe it could boot of seperate root/boot disks like Linux does? Of course, I can't build kernels as I have no source, so that goes in the can. Basically, anything multi-user would be cool, and TCP/IP would be a nice trick. BTW, which Unix was first to have TCP/IP?

28 years, 9 months

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SMTP import error #-5

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

On 0 xxx 1980 MAILER-DAEMON(a)nwohio.nwohio.com wrote: > [Another aside - you heard from Galesburg yet? Nothing on my end 8-( Once > we get you a case, you can just hide the 486 inside and tell *them* its a > terminal 8-) ] That was the idea.

28 years, 9 months

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Help with Convergent Technologies

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Oh and the floppy drives are f0, f1 etc. I think a question mark an the Command? prompt will give you more commands, What version of Ctos is it? ---------- > From: thedm <thedm(a)sunflower.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Help with Convergent Technologies > Date: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 5:33 AM > > Okay, [SyS][sys] is the first hard disk, then d1, d2 d3 etc > It was strictly an office automation machine, usually it came with Document > designer, Office spreadsheet and Bmail. When it boots, it has a bunch of > dots run across the screen, seems to me at this point it tells you the > software license. The licenses are, standalone, 5user, 10 user, 25 user and > 48 user. These machines had the networking built in. There are two RS422 > ports on the side, you can put 24 machines in a daisey chain on each side. > There is a surplus store here with buttloads of them and no one wants them > because they don't know what they are. These boxes are INtel based, but > propriatary as hell. There is a DOS emulator available or was. Unissys > currently owns this platform as of 1986, before then it was sperry, and > then your model convergent, allthough convergent still made alot of the > hardware under subcontract. If you ask me more specific questions I can > probably remember more. It's been 5 years since I even touched one. > > ---------- > > From: Ray Stricklin <kjaeros(a)u.washington.edu> > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > Subject: Re: Help with Convergent Technologies > > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 7:53 PM > > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, thedm wrote: > > > > > Is this a little square box cpu with a buss on the side? and ad ons > that > > > lock onto the side of it? If it is I used to administer a Convergent > > > network, it uses the BTOS/CTOS operating system and uses JCL for batch > > > programming. Its almost useless with out the native software and if I > > > recall our licenses where about 10,000 for a 48 user network. They do > make > > > a standalone version, but I'll be darned if i would ever know where to > find > > > it. > > > > That'd be the one. > > > > It has an OS installed; with the CPU I also picked up a QIC unit, 10 meg > > disk/floppy unit, a 'disk expansion' unit of unknown size (I'm short one > > power supply), and a GC-001 graphics unit, as well as boxes of QIC tapes > > and 360k floppies. The OS is installed along with lots of other stuff of > > unknown purpose on the hard disk/floppy box. It boots fine; I can play a > > little with it, but I really don't know what's there. > > > > I'm able to get file listings of [sys]<sys> which I'm assuming is the > hard > > disk. > > > > I wish there'd been an operator's manual in the lot.. > > > > ok > > -r

28 years, 9 months

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Help with Convergent Technologies

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Okay, [SyS][sys] is the first hard disk, then d1, d2 d3 etc It was strictly an office automation machine, usually it came with Document designer, Office spreadsheet and Bmail. When it boots, it has a bunch of dots run across the screen, seems to me at this point it tells you the software license. The licenses are, standalone, 5user, 10 user, 25 user and 48 user. These machines had the networking built in. There are two RS422 ports on the side, you can put 24 machines in a daisey chain on each side. There is a surplus store here with buttloads of them and no one wants them because they don't know what they are. These boxes are INtel based, but propriatary as hell. There is a DOS emulator available or was. Unissys currently owns this platform as of 1986, before then it was sperry, and then your model convergent, allthough convergent still made alot of the hardware under subcontract. If you ask me more specific questions I can probably remember more. It's been 5 years since I even touched one. ---------- > From: Ray Stricklin <kjaeros(a)u.washington.edu> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Help with Convergent Technologies > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 7:53 PM > > On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, thedm wrote: > > > Is this a little square box cpu with a buss on the side? and ad ons that > > lock onto the side of it? If it is I used to administer a Convergent > > network, it uses the BTOS/CTOS operating system and uses JCL for batch > > programming. Its almost useless with out the native software and if I > > recall our licenses where about 10,000 for a 48 user network. They do make > > a standalone version, but I'll be darned if i would ever know where to find > > it. > > That'd be the one. > > It has an OS installed; with the CPU I also picked up a QIC unit, 10 meg > disk/floppy unit, a 'disk expansion' unit of unknown size (I'm short one > power supply), and a GC-001 graphics unit, as well as boxes of QIC tapes > and 360k floppies. The OS is installed along with lots of other stuff of > unknown purpose on the hard disk/floppy box. It boots fine; I can play a > little with it, but I really don't know what's there. > > I'm able to get file listings of [sys]<sys> which I'm assuming is the hard > disk. > > I wish there'd been an operator's manual in the lot.. > > ok > -r

28 years, 9 months

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old 80286

by jordicr＠eic.ictnet.es

I have a LAPTOP 80286. Can I connect to INTERNET with it? Does any Winsock exist? Which is the best software for MAIL and WWW? (using a 286, of course) Greetings, Jordi Carceller jordicr(a)eic.ictnet.es

28 years, 9 months

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current HHC count

by dastar＠crl.com

Here is the current list I have of the Panasonic HHC buyout... Name Qty ----------------- --- Sam Ismail 4 Allison Parent 3 Jeff Hellige 2 Kelly Fergason 3 Gary Tucker 2 Roger Sinasohn 5 Ward Griffiths 3 Ben Coakley 1 Paul Coad 2 Jim Willing 3 Richard Cini 3 Hans Pufal 2 Doug Spence 3 John Ott 1 Bob Withers 2 Frank Peseckis 2 Roger Merchberger 3 (or up to 10! what a guy!) ursa(a)idir.net 4 Richard Schauer 2 Brian Stuart 3 Jeff Lodoen 1 Scott Ware 3 SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com 1 James Rice 3 Benedict Chong 2 Kirk Scott 2 Kirk (dynasoar) 2 Current Total: 66 If your name isn't on here, please e-mail me with how many you want. If your e-mail bounces, post your request publicly. If you want to add to your count, let me know. I will be sending the final total to Mike on Friday, so I will take requests up until sometime Friday when I fire off an e-mail to him. At that point I will try to cut a deal. I'm hoping for 100. Nobody will pay more than $10 per. If we get to 100 it should go down to $9 per. Remember...manuals, power supplies, ROM chips, custom RAM expander tray, some carrying cases. Features thermal printer, FORTH-like language in ROM, QWERTY keyboard. If you don't know what the hell I'm talking about, ask for details. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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IBM PC Radio 9075

by sinasohn＠crl.com

This weekend I picked up two IBM PC Radio laptops (numbered #9075). Anyone know anything about them? They came with no PS and the batteries are (of course) dead. They're nifty little machines, with a built-in ~adding-machine-sized printer, a connection for an antenna (at least, that's what it looks like) and a PCMCIA-ish slot. Any info would be greatly appreciated, as well as leads on finding a power supply or two. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 9 months

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PDP as a home computer - Acid Test. I LOST ALL MY STUFF!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> X-Sender: danjo@typhoon > I don't think V7 would fit on a RX02 - maybe an RL02. What you probabl the miniroot would. Rl02(10mb) is more like it. Also V7 requires I&D space so the cpu had better by 11/73 or higher. IF 11/23 then use V5 or V6. > want is RT-11. Single user but with Foreground/Background tasking. Or > you could try TSX? which is a multi-user RT-11 kinda sort of 8-) I have RSTS-11 multitasking/timesharing. Or RSX-11 real time multitasking. Myself RT-11FB is my favorite as it's compact and can run off a rx02 and fast. Allison

28 years, 9 months

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Apple & Commodore Stuff on Auction

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

Hello again. Time for the list of stuff. I have listed some items on a different auction than eBay AuctionWeb this time. It's a new auction so it's faster to search (less listings) and they do have a vintage computer category and a Non-PC/Mac software category. I'm still trying to reduce the pile (and get a little money for tuition next month) so everything sells for whatever the high bid is. Most of the power supplies/boards have been going for about $5 so far with a few exceptions. Remember to figure shipping in to what it's worth to you, I'm in Central CA. AuctionWeb: Mac II Logic Bd - NEW! Sealed From Factory! Bidding starts at: $5.00 Auction ends on: 07/13/97, 16:54:10 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=dcv57812 Apple IIc Power Supply NEW! Factory Bag/Box! Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 07/13/97, 17:15:38 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=fok750072 Apple II SCSI Card Current bid: $15.00 Auction ends on: 07/13/97, 17:25:49 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=uiy958 Auction Works: Commodore 1541 Drive in Orig Box Starts at $3 http://www.auctionworks.com/cgi-win/bid.exe?SITEID=WORKS+ACTION=VIEW+LOT=11… Apple 5.25 Disk Drive Brand New in Sealed Static Bag http://www.auctionworks.com/cgi-win/bid.exe?SITEID=WORKS+ACTION=VIEW+LOT=15… Apple IIC Computer http://www.auctionworks.com/cgi-win/bid.exe?SITEID=WORKS+ACTION=VIEW+LOT=11… Thanks for reading, Greg

28 years, 9 months

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Amiga32? What's this?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

> ---------- > From: Daniel A. > Seagraves[SMTP:dseagrav@bsdserver.tek-star.net] > I was reading some old videogame magazines for console games, and > found > an ad for something from Commodore called the Amiga32. It's a > nice-looking unit, with a CD-ROM on top. Anyone know what it is? > It's called a CD32. It's basically an Amiga 600 minus keyboard, in a one-piece unit similar to a PlayStation/Saturn. It was intended to compete with those entertainment consoles. Not a bad concept; there was a lot of Amiga game software available and it was simple to port to CD32 -- just remove any dependency on a full keyboard. Unfortunately it came along just before Commodore went under, and was never really marketed in the US. It was a decent success in Europe. > PS: There's some amiga in the junk-parts section of our place here. > I'm > gonna snag it given the first chance. But it has no disks or power > supply. There's a 3 1/2 in the side of it. All that's there is the > unit > itself. Would it be worth it? And would it need a bootdisk? > Sounds like an Amiga 500. You'd need a power supply and boot disk. The Amiga 500 power supply looks just like a Commodore 128 power supply, except the Amiga version has an on/off switch. It can use a TV as a monitor, but only in B&W. An RGB monitor is required for color. Amiga 500's go for surprisingly little money -- like $75 for a complete system -- so don't spend much on a PS. If it turns out to be dead, I need an internal floppy drive for mine... Kai

28 years, 9 months

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Help with Convergent Technologies

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Is this a little square box cpu with a buss on the side? and ad ons that lock onto the side of it? If it is I used to administer a Convergent network, it uses the BTOS/CTOS operating system and uses JCL for batch programming. Its almost useless with out the native software and if I recall our licenses where about 10,000 for a 48 user network. They do make a standalone version, but I'll be darned if i would ever know where to find it. ---------- > From: Ray Stricklin <kjaeros(a)u.washington.edu> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Help with Convergent Technologies > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 1:54 AM > > > I picked up a Convergent Technologies CP001/8 along with a tonne of > extra bits this weekend. It is an absolutely fascinating machine, but I > have no idea how to use it. /: > > Unfortunately, in all the extensive documentation I picked up (including > numerous schematics) there is not one operator's or user's guide, although > such are mentioned. The OS reference is, apparently, devoted to the > mechanicals: system calls, and so on. Useful, but not at the fledgeling > stage. (: > > If someone knows aught about this machine, I would sure love to hear what > you've got to tell. > > I also picked up a TI 99/4A and an Apple ][plus, which I shall require > some guidance with as well, as I cut my teeth on TRS-80 machines, and > didn't really even get into computers until I had moved up to a 386sx.. > > Thanks. > > ok > -r > >

28 years, 9 months

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SMTP import error #-5

by dastar＠crl.com

On 0 xxx 1980 MAILER-DAEMON(a)nwohio.nwohio.com wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I assume other people are having the same problem of this host spewing forth duplicate posts? Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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Aquarius USR()

by BROBSTONA＠wartburg.edu

When I first got my Mattel Aquarius some thirteen years ago, I remember going through the owner's manual, typing in all the programs and all that. The manual documented the USR() function as something to execute machine language, which was "beyond the scope of the manual." I looked for probably three years (until I got my Apple IIgs and lost interest) for info on "machine code." The only place I knew to look was the public library, which, of course, had nothing. Does anyone know more about this? I don't have my Aquarius where I'm living right now to play with, unfortunately. -- Andy Brobston brobstona(a)wartburg.edu ***NEW URL BELOW*** http://www.wartburg.edu/people/docs/personalPages/BrobstonA/home.html My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Wartburg College as a whole.

28 years, 9 months

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Help with Epson PX-8

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Hi all, I just acquired an Epson PX-8, minus documentation of course, and I need some help. Questions: - What is the RS-232 DIN plug pinout? Or better yet, a PX8-to-PC wiring diagram? (Digi-Key appears to have the plug, part # CP-2080-ND for $1.22 - 800-344-4539) - Can I connect a floppy drive to the 50-pin connector? If so, what specs does it expect? - I assume the SP OUT connector is for a speaker; what are the A/D IN and BRCD connectors for? - Anyone have a spare PX-8 keyboard protector shell they want to sell/trade? Any other info appreciated, thanks Kai

28 years, 9 months

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Panasonic HHC

by dastar＠crl.com

To anyone who's sent me e-mail to be put down on the list for an HHC, if your mail bounced then please post it publicly here on the discussion group, and everyone excuse these people in advance. My service provider seems to think customer service is a joke to be played on its customers. I'll be switching to a provider which can handle the mundane task of exchanging e-mail. Note to the wise: stay away from CRL Network Services. Everyone else, if your mail did not bounce, do not send another request. I have your request saved, I just did not respond to you. I will be compiling a list tonight and will post it so you know if your request has been received. Thanks. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 9 months

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Help with Epson PX-8

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <33C14531.5B31(a)xlisper.mv.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > - What is the RS-232 DIN plug pinout? > > 1 - GND > 2 - TxD > 3 - RxD > 4 - RTS > 5 - CTS > 6 - DSR > 7 - DTR > 8 - DCD That's certainly the HX20 pinout, and it's very sensibly arranged. Any DIN plug that will physically fit into the socket picks up a useful set of signals. A 3-pin plug picks up ground and both data signals 5-pin adds RTS and CTS 7-pin adds DTR and DSR and 8-pin adds DCD The later Epsons like my PX4 used a mini-DIN, alas, where you can't play tricks like this. > > -- > David Betz -tony

28 years, 9 months

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Yes, I shall burn in the fyres of Hades...

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Yes, I finally got the fever for the flavor of a Pringles -- Dooh! I mean, the fever to spark up my CP/M machine... despite everyone & their brother telling me to check the PSU first. Yea, Tar & feather me, and ride me out on a rail... but I saved the thing >from Mr. Junkman, and it cost me $1.00 at an auction... Figured there wasn't much to lose. Here's what I have: It is *not* a Heath/Zenith machine.... It states simply on the front: Heathkit Computer. No nuthin' else. On the back, I found the Serial# and the number: H-120-1. I'm assuming this is the model number. It has two floppy drives (one of which the garage door is broken on) a full keyboard (which works fine, but is slightly sticky...) and an internal green 11" diag. mono monitor. Something tickled in my brain about those floppies, so as I lumbered around in the dark in my newly-begun clean-ish basement (Eeeeek!) I found my old non-working Atari 810 disk drive... and the mechs looked almost exact! Would these happen to be the same mechanically, would anyone know? Also, as there was no paperwork for this, so even the most basic, rudimentary info on this unit would be helpful... such as: which drive is the boot drive? Top or bottom? When I sparked it up, everything seemed to work, the tube came to life, and greeted me with a finger pointing to the right in the upper-left corner... and stayed there. Every key sequence I tried resulted in a "Beep" except <CTRL><RESET> which, of course, reset the machine and re-greeted me with the finger. Does anyone out there know what I have, and could you tell me? ;^> BTW, I (of course) would be in the market for a set of boot disks for this beastie... Thanks one and all, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

28 years, 9 months

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HP71B

by Manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

No, I'm not Tony Duell...I'm Manney. I have the HP-41 emulator ROM, not the Assembler/FORTH ROM (the HP-41 emulator came with a different FORTH and some other stuff.) I have a lot of documentation -- assuming no copyright infringements, I'd be glad to do what I can. Tell me your needs. Since I don't live in the UK (wish I did...about 125 years ago), I can't 'elp you with the magazines...sorry. Manney 419-6630-700

28 years, 9 months

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MC-10 ???

by coslor＠pscosf.peru.edu

Does anyone have any old documentation, software, etc., etc., for the old Radio Shack TRS-80 MICRO Color Computer.... also known as the MC-10. I just aquired one with the power-supply, but nothing further. And, I am trying to locate more information on this little unit as well as software for it. Thanks, CORD COSLOR //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*//

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

HHC (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

More information on the HHCs as requested. I should've included this bit with the last message. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:40:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikeooo1(a)aol.com To: dastar(a)crl.com Subject: Re: HHC Sam, Yes they come with power supplies (internal batteries and AC adaptors).I have very few manuals however. Mike

28 years, 9 months

3
2
0 0

Help with Convergent Technologies

by kjaeros＠u.washington.edu

I picked up a Convergent Technologies CP001/8 along with a tonne of extra bits this weekend. It is an absolutely fascinating machine, but I have no idea how to use it. /: Unfortunately, in all the extensive documentation I picked up (including numerous schematics) there is not one operator's or user's guide, although such are mentioned. The OS reference is, apparently, devoted to the mechanicals: system calls, and so on. Useful, but not at the fledgeling stage. (: If someone knows aught about this machine, I would sure love to hear what you've got to tell. I also picked up a TI 99/4A and an Apple ][plus, which I shall require some guidance with as well, as I cut my teeth on TRS-80 machines, and didn't really even get into computers until I had moved up to a 386sx.. Thanks. ok -r

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Wanted: Old Amiga Genlocker

by more＠camlaw.rutgers.edu

If anyone has any old genlockers (preferably with some software) that will work on both/either an A600 and an A1000, please e-mail me! They (my amigas) are becoming paper weights and I'd like to put them to use as video titlers atleast. Thanks, Les more(a)crazy.rutgers.edu

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

CLASSICCMP Digest #101 BrainDeath

by ursa＠idir.net

*:On Sat, 5 Jul 1997 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote: *: CLASSICCMP Digest 104 *: 1) Re: CLASSICCMP digest 101 *: by ursa <ursa(a)idir.net> My apologies for this fubar. Pine's auto-upload grabbed CCML #101 instead of the intended message. Or So I *Thought* ... It seems the NUL bucket wasn't quite as empty as we've been led to believe... We caught the responsible ruffian who dared dilly-dally discoursive data mustering modemic mayhem & what not, et al, ad nauseum... Please find chained below, for your drubbing pleasure, the Rogue & Hacker - Quasi Goto: .,. __., ,";~`' / `\l/ _ `O ( ' `./ <. \ I l_ ---,- ) ) ,'\ ( (--------/ /--l ,\ \ o=== \ __/ ===o o'((( I `. \ /)))`o`o```I____I ________ `o_/ ''' `o' / ,, ; \ / o' (o....' l l `o-o-o-o-o-o-o-0======o l l `o-o-o "`"'\i/~"\l/"`""` ( We know what you're thinking ... "where did we ever find such an ) ( <obviously Mythical> ~attractive~ COBOL programmer?" All we can say ) ( is: "You've gotta sweep alotta dungeons before you smell the flowers.") He has been hiding in our NUL bucket (nasty habit), regurgitating when our electronic back was turned... Please throw only fresh vegetables, as he will only eat the rotten ones, sort of taking the edge off of the punishment thing... Thank you for your patience & understanding. Our barristers, Forth, Lisp, Rodney, Punch-Card, & Howl have assured us that should such happen again, certain rather uncomfortable "snips" *will* occur - and something or other concerning being eaten by a grue... RetroHexaDecimatically Yours, -=GF=- TagByPsychoTag: "Tornados are both Vortical & Harmizontal." -=GF=- (Remember you heard it here first - on Mental Roller Derby)...

28 years, 9 months

1
0
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Osborne Collectibles

by louiss＠gate.net

It appears my last post may have contained at least one ambiguity. In each case where the number of available items is more than one, the price is for EACH. For example, for the 2 boxed sets of original software, the price is $30 for each box. I apologize for any confusion. On Sun, 06 Jul 97 21:34:12 -0400, Louis Schulman wrote: > > OSBORNE 1 AND EXECUTIVE COLLECTIBLES > >Hi, > >I've decided to focus my collecting on Apple items. Therefore, I have some >Osborne collectibles I'd like to sell. I thought I'd give this group the >first shot, before going public. >etc. Louis

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Osborne Collectibles

by louiss＠gate.net

OSBORNE 1 AND EXECUTIVE COLLECTIBLES Hi, I've decided to focus my collecting on Apple items. Therefore, I have some Osborne collectibles I'd like to sell. I thought I'd give this group the first shot, before going public. All items are AS IS, subject to the descriptions given. Nothing is warranted, except that the items are as represented. Prices do not include shipping >from Tampa, Florida 1 Tan Case Osborne 1. Beautiful cosmetic condition. Has double-density upgrade. Startup screen displays with extra characters (zeros), and attempts to boot a disk result in boot errors..........$75 1 Osborne-103 "internal" modem with manual and software. Blue plastic, fits in pocket below left-hand disk drive. Missing ribbon jumper cable (should be simple to replace). Cosmetically excellent...$25 5 Osborne 1 "User's Reference Guides". There are a number of different versions and revisions. Original version in black plastic 3-ring binder from December,1981 with corrections(the corrections seem to pre-date the publication-I think they are misdated).......$25 Completely re-written version in black plastic 3-ring binder appears to be from around January, 1982.......$25 Blue spiral-bound version from February, 1982 in good condition..$20 Blue spiral bound version as above in fair condition with tabs added to pages...$10 Grey paper-back version that appears to have come with blue case Osbornes in very good condition....$20 1 Package of correspondence and documents from OCC including an updated section on SuperCalc (contained in the second black plastic manual), information on upgrades and software, and an introductory letter machine-signed by Adam Osborne....$10 1 MBasic manual, grey paper-back....$5 1 Osborne Field Service Manual published by Xerox for Osborne 1,1A and Executive. 245 pages in 3-ring binder plus appencices, schematics, and updates through February 1984. Very comprehensive and easy to use. Unfortunately missing first 42 pages on general Osborne 1 disassembly. However, it appears that this material was mostly the obvious things, and the comparable sections for the Executive are present. Very useful......$35 1 Osborne 1 Technical Manual by Osborne Computer, 1982. Complete photocopy of manual with schematics, appendice, etc. Approximately 250 pages. The schematics are foldouts, and photocopy may have been the original means of reproduction.......$35 2 Boxed sets of original Osborne software. Each Osborne labeled box contains the following original disks in original sleeves: CP/M System; CP/M Utility; CBasic/MBasic; SuperCalc; WordStar; Upgrade Diskette. Note that these are sold as collector's items- the data integrity is not warranted, in fact the contents of the disks are not warranted...$30 2 Double Density User's Manual with original Extended Utility Disk in original sleeve in blue plastic binder. Like new, data integrity not guaranteed.....$10 13 Original Osborne disks in Osborne sleeves. Some have user-applied labels. May or may not contain labeled software. Data integrity not guaranteed. Titles: Double Density WordStar(2); Diagnostic II Diskette One; Osborne Executive Exerciser Diskette; Executive Diagnostics(2); PC Files; CP/M System; CP/M Utility; SuperCalc; Extended Utility Disk; Single Density WordStar; Upgrade Diskette.....$3 each 1 XtraKey User Guide...$3 1 SuperGraphics 4.1. Original disk, manual and literature.....$10 1 "The Portable Companion", premiere issue, June/July 1982 published by Osborne Computer. 85 page full-color magazine, a true collectible. Color cover shows Afghan guerillas using an Osborne 1....$25 1 "A Guide to Products and Services for the Osborne Computers" by Spite Software, 1985. A 50 page guide to everything that was available... ...$10 1 Grey plastic cover from the back of an Osborne. These are often missing.. ...$5 Offers on multiple items or for everything are welcome. Please e-mail me at louiss(a)gate.net with any questions. Louis

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Sony CP/M machine?

by kmar＠lle.rochester.edu

At 02:21 PM 7/2/97 +0000, you wrote: >Sam Ismail wrote: >> >> I mentioned previously a discussion I had over dinner of some classic >> systems. One of the systems mentioned was a Sony CP/M machine from the >> very early 80s. Anyone know anything about this system? > >Well...from my Sony book they list in 1982 a "new desktop microcomputer >system, "SCM-70" and its peripherals for video as well as business >applications". > >Could this be it? > >enrico >================================================================ >Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. >tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile >website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> >================================================================ >visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm> > I was just given a Sony SMC-70 last weekend by a friend of my son's that is moving. The machine has 3.5" single-sided floppy disks, both black & white and RGB video outputs, an RS-232 interface, parallel interface, and a DB-25 connector labeled "external drives". It also has a "supercharger" unit with it that contains an 8086 processor. This "brick" plugs into the back of the SMC-70 using a centronics-type 50 pin cable. According ot the documentation, when this "supercharger" is plugged in, the Z-80 processor in the main unit handles all of the I/O functions and the 8086 becomes the default CPU. The system uses either CP/M (in Z-80 mode) or CM/M-86 (in 8086 mode). I have manuals and documentation for the machine, the Sony applications, and the CP/M and CP/M-86 operating systems, but the original system and applications diskettes were not passed along to the person I got the machine from by its original owner. Anybody have any idea where I could get at least the OS for this thing? It looks like a neat little machine. Kenneth L. Marshall Research Engineer, Optical Materials Laboratory for Laser Energetics University of Rochester 250 East River Road Rochester, NY 14623 Phone:(716)-275-8247 Fax: (716)-275-5960

28 years, 9 months

7
9
0 0

Composite output

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <199707061451.JAA22190(a)challenge.sunflower.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > Once I try it myself, sure. All I planned on doing was desoldering, or > patching onto the input of the RF modulator, {the 1.5x2in box that you plug > your tv into) to a composite RCA style connector. Hoping this will work. That's what I did (in most cases). The modulator typically has 3-5 connections. They are : Ground (connected to the 0v line of the computer) Power (typically +9V - +12V) Video Input (Composite - jsut what you want) Channel Select (in the US - connected to the Channel 3/Channel 4 switch) Audio Input Most modulators are standard parts, and you can get data on them (or at least a pinout. I'm unlikely to be much help here, since I'm in the UK, and our TV system is different). Anyway, you need to identify the video input. Either look at the modulator data sheet, the schematics of the computer or trace it out by hand (eliminate the ground and power pins, and look at what's left). I've just found the (USA) CoCo Technical manual. The modulator has 5 connections, including the case. It's a UM1285-8 (I suspect that this is used in other computers as well). Anyway, the connections are : Case - ground 1 (Nearest the RCA socket on the modulator) - Video Input 2 +12V power 3 Audio Input 4 Channel Select Now connect a piece of 75 Ohm video cable with the centre wire to the video input pin on the modulator and the braid to the 0V line. Connect the other end of that cable to the monitor. -tony

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Composite output

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Got a simple question. God I hope it's simple and does not turn out to be an advocacy question. Im planning my "museum" setup. I have alot of machines that were simply designed only to work on Color TV's. Is it possible to just tap the input's before they get to the RF modulator {built in} and use a composite monitor, of which I have dozens? Otherwise I've got to buy, scrounge, find, about 9 color tv's.

28 years, 9 months

5
4
0 0

Composite output

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Once I try it myself, sure. All I planned on doing was desoldering, or patching onto the input of the RF modulator, {the 1.5x2in box that you plug your tv into) to a composite RCA style connector. Hoping this will work. ---------- > From: dynasoar <dynasoar(a)mindspring.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Composite output > Date: Sunday, July 06, 1997 11:13 PM > > > > On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, A.R. Duell wrote: > > > > ... <snip> Is it > > > possible to just tap the input's before they get to the RF modulator {built > > > in} and use a composite monitor, of which I have dozens? <snip> ... > > > > In general, yes you can....<snip>.... > > -- > > -tony > > ard12(a)eng.cam.ac.uk > > This sounds like a real workable solution to the problem of finding > suitable displays for some of the old T.V. dependent machines. Would you > be willing to give really specific directions on how to do this? Something > a relative amateur with a few basic electronics skills could follow? > > Thanks, > > Kirk Scott > dynasoar(a)mindspring.com >

28 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

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