<>landfills. Badly yellowed board and plastic, crumbling at a touch,
<>all traces gone, thin parts eaten away, thick layer rust covering
<>seized up drives, riddled with rustout holes in cases, blackened
<>glass. Hard and darkened as soapstone that once was solder joints.
<>Mass of green strings with bits of faded colored platic material
Actually there are people that have looked into landfills that are in the
100-200 years old range and they have found things in an amazing state of
preservation. Some cases there were newspapers in the middle of the stack
that were as fresh as printed in appearance. Yet in another layer old
papers were completely composted. I'd suspect that old technology would
be found the same way, some just oxidized piles and others completly
intact.
Allison
> Roger Ivie wrote:
> >
> > >It'll be nice when Caldera follows up on their promise to release the
> > >source code for CP/M and DR-DOS (now OpenDOS). _That_ will definitely
> > >have some results on-topic for this mailing list.
> http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/
>
> My ISP's nameserver can't track that down. And I tried filling it in as
> "utah" as well, knowing the approximate geography of Caldera.
This is the unofficial CP/M site; it's not run by Caldera, but by someone
who was willing to argue with Caldera long enough to get permission to put
the stuff up. It's being hosted by a machine at University of Texas at
Arlington: UTA.
Here's what my machine gives me when i nslookup cdl.uta.edu:
Name: dave.uta.edu
Address: 129.107.2.554
Aliases: cdl.uta.edu
> I'd post
> that private, but now that I _know_ that the OpenDOS kernel source is at
> the caldera.com site (and is only marginally within our charter), the
> CP/M source location becomes crucial to maintaining my self-respect in
> this forum. Or something like that.
IIRC, the CP/M 2.2 sources are available _somewhere_ on the caldera site,
but they're password protected and you have to find the right form to submit
to get the password, etc.
The unofficial site includes source to CP/M 2.2, 3.0, and 68K...
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
Out of curiosity has anyone else with web pages dealing with classic
computers been contacted by someone that wants to dispose of your
collection as scrap? Talk about insulting!
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
>>Ummm... RedHat, Caldera, and Debian can all use RPMS. Packages that
>> aren't RPMed are usually .tar.gz or .tgz and can be installed by RTFMing.
>Thanks, just wondering... :) But when I use the program to manage
>all s/w much like the win95's feature, will this kind still work?
I don't know about the others, but pre-install Debian has a program that
lets you choose filesystem types. There are also options on dselect.
(Debian's version of RPM. It's a lot simplier, but still more powerful than
NT will be for sometime to come.)
Tim D. Hotze
> they go to landfill. You see, at our local landfills there is a company
> called Revolve that has scavenging rights, and rescues all this stuff.
> I've picked up a Tandy CoCo 3 with box, manuals and some software, a
> Commodore 64 with Datasette, music keyboard overlay, manuals, software and
> box, a Commodore 128, a Commodore 1541-II and 1571 floppy drive,a BBC Model
> B with floppy drive, an Atari 1024STfm with monitor, a Amstrad CPC464 with
> monitor and an Apple IIe with disk drive, all for about $5 to $10 each.
> All of them except the Atari ST worked fine at first switch-on (the ST
> still doesn't work - I suspect a memory fault). I also managed to pick
> up four Vectrex cartridges for $2. It's now got to the point that
> people often drop their stuff off directly at Revolve rather than
> dumping it at the landfill (especially now the local government has
> instituted a fee to dump stuff at the landfill).
>
> Of course, the only problem is that since all the stuff is stored outside
> you have to get to it before the rain hits...
You lucky beggar! I wish there was something like that around here
(central England)!
Rain is not as bad as many people think. The water is (fairly) pure,
and things often only need drying. When I upgraded my Commodore 8296 to
an 8296D, the parts came from a machine in the skip at work - some of
them I had to dig out of the snow...
Philip.
Sure. I've seen 486/33DX systems with 4MB of RAM and Windows 3.1 go for
around $275. So 386's don't sell for that... but still... and you could
sell high-end 486's for much more than that. Heck, AMD even made the X5, a
586 compatible processor for 486/DX4 motherboards that works at 133MHz.
Those go for around $500.
-----Original Message-----
From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca <jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: I don't believe this ****
> That's TERRIBLE. I mean 486 parts can even get SOLD AS-IS for a decent
sum
> of money. The whole system goes for a couple hundred. So if they're
going
> to scrap 'em.... but anyway, lots of schools, non-profit orginazations,
etc.
> would love to have decent 386's, and 486's would be better. Sure, you
can't
> play Quake on 'em, but a 386 was designed with 10 years of x86 software in
> mind.
Yepper! I would beat up that one because of several things also
real nice to donate those to schools, etc and including me looking
for some parts to fix some other items. AS IS at that price? No
way!
Jason D.
Oops... well, scratch that. but the Romans DID conquer, the Eqyptians DID
kill, the Sumerians did a few things, and the Greeks... well, let's just say
that they didn't really mind war. OK?
-----Original Message-----
From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: I don't believe this ****
>
>
>> And, as history has proven, it is easy to destroy, as the Romans,
>> Egyptians, Sumerians, and Greeks did, but it is so hard to CREATE and
>> PRESERVE. That's why we must try to save these things. Eventually, when
>
>Uhhhhhhh....hmmmmmmm...never mind, it'd be off topic.
>
>Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
>
classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subj: Re: UNIX questions?
Barry Peterson wrote:
!On Sun, 4 Jan 98 01:17:06 PST, you said:
!
!<snip>
!
!>A web page discussing flavors and ports
!>at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/BSD-info/BSD.html seems to be inaccesible
!>at this time.=20
!
!I just checked it; it's there.
Thanks for the reminder, I can see it now too.
Bruce Lane had a question about netbooting BSD on a DEC 3100 MIPs machine.
I thought that I had squirreled away some info on it - but it turns out
to be pertinent to VAX not MIPs. If it is of any use to anyone herein
was the posting to the linux-vax list from this past Oct 6:
!=================== begin include 8< =======================
Sender: linux-vax(a)ise.canberra.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
From: Brian Chase <brianc(a)carpediem.com>
To: pvhp(a)forte.com
Subject: VAXstation Netboot HOWTO Update.
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Linux Vax Port List
I've made some minor content modifications to the VAXstation Netboot
HOWTO. More are on the way as hopefully the IRIX, Solaris, and NeXTSTEP
sections are completed.
I've reworked the HOWTO using the Linux Documentation Project's
SGML-tools. So now the HOWTO comes in a slighly different plain text
flavor and a super-nifty HTML version.
http://www.carpediem.com/~brianc/projects/vaxen/VAXstation-netboot-HOWTOhttp://www.carpediem.com/~brianc/projects/vaxen/VAXstation-netboot-HOWTO.ht…
-brian.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian D. Chase Systems Coordinator brian.chase(a)carpediem.com
-- Compression, Inc. - 13765 Alton Pkwy, Suite B - Irvine, CA 92618, USA --
!====================== end include ========================
Peter Prymmer
>It'll be nice when Caldera follows up on their promise to release the
>source code for CP/M and DR-DOS (now OpenDOS). _That_ will definitely
>have some results on-topic for this mailing list.
http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
At 21:25 5/01/98 -0600, Anthony Clifton wrote:
>
>> Anything other than 486+
>> get's melted down for scrap? I'm sorry, but that includes A LOT of systems
>> that there are a lot of people that would love to have them.
>
>You guys know that I agree with your sentiment 100%. That said, I'd
>rather see the systems melted down for scrap (assuming it's a reasonably
>efficient and environmentally safe process) than to see them go into a
>landfill. I can't imagine how many beautiful systems are rusting away
>under 3 million tons of garbage someplace. I don't want to see them
>scrapped either, mind you, but given the choice....
Actually, here in Canberra (which is the capital of Australia, *not* Sydney
or Melbourne (off topic, but one of my pet peeves, sorry)), I'd much prefer
they go to landfill. You see, at our local landfills there is a company
called Revolve that has scavenging rights, and rescues all this stuff.
I've picked up a Tandy CoCo 3 with box, manuals and some software, a
Commodore 64 with Datasette, music keyboard overlay, manuals, software and
box, a Commodore 128, a Commodore 1541-II and 1571 floppy drive,a BBC Model
B with floppy drive, an Atari 1024STfm with monitor, a Amstrad CPC464 with
monitor and an Apple IIe with disk drive, all for about $5 to $10 each.
All of them except the Atari ST worked fine at first switch-on (the ST
still doesn't work - I suspect a memory fault). I also managed to pick up
four Vectrex cartridges for $2. It's now got to the point that people
often drop their stuff off directly at Revolve rather than dumping it at
the landfill (especially now the local government has instituted a fee to
dump stuff at the landfill).
Of course, the only problem is that since all the stuff is stored outside
you have to get to it before the rain hits...
Regards,
| Scott McLauchlan |"Sometimes the need to mess with their heads|
|Information Services Division| outweighs the millstone of humiliation." |
| University of Canberra |__________Fox_Mulder_"The_X-Files:_Squeeze"_|
| scott(a)isd.canberra.edu.au |http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/home.html |
On the subject of scrapping systems, I found too late that an IBM Convertible
had gone to the trash. I didn't get to use it, and I only now found the
original notepad-address book-etc. program on the IBM ftp site. I once had a
computer store in the neighborhood that threw away dozens of machines (empty
PC cases, mostly) each day. That moved away :( I often am forced to leave
machines where they are, just because I can't have dozens of 386's and 286's
in my apartment, but it's a shame. If they were lighter, I would give them to
people. Now, I have a relative in NJ who says that his company throws away
486s. So much for affirmative action. One last thing. I keep seeing people
mention how they get dozens of CoCos for free, find them in shops for $5,
etc. Look, I have never even SEEN a CoCo, and I live in Boston, MA, where I
thought there were lots of computers. I would love to run an enhanced CoCo.
The worst thing is, back when that computer store was still here, I didn't
know what to take. Maybe they were throwing away PDP-11s and Alphas and
Crays, I will never know.
classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subj: Re: UNIX questions?
Tony Duell wrote:
>Ob classic-computer-OS. I agree with some other messages on this list - a
>Linux/minix port to the PDP11 would be very nice. The PDP11 is just about
>unique in that it's a popular classic computer with _no_ freely
>distributable OS (in fact, unless you have the license transferred, you
>can't even legally run what it was running before you got it). Now that
>CP/M is jsut about free for home use, as is LDOS (for the TRS-80), OS8,
>Linux, Minix (for educational use), etc, it appears that the PDP11 is the
>machine that's left out of all this.
I am not sure if things were different for the DEC OSes for the PDP-11
but for VMS (VAX & AXP) one can legally run the OS and attendant utilities
(DECnet & the DCL shell) with transfer of ownership. To be legal you
have to purchase new license PAKs and/or new distributions for any of the
layered products which includes all the interesting compilers, DBses etc.
BTW to Bruce Lane regarding BSDs: A web page discussing flavors and ports
at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/BSD-info/BSD.html seems to be inaccesible
at this time.
For money you could try Ultrix as in:
http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/DECinfo/.2/SPD/26.40.32.txt
- and I thought digital was no longer selling ultrix products (?)
Peter Prymmer
does anyone need some old Bernoulli 8in 20MB Flexible Disk Cartridges?
I got about 45 of them, plus a cleaning kit. The company was gonna toss
'em.
Let me know if you are interested.
Kelly
KFergason(a)aol.com
At 12:05 PM 1/3/98 -0800, Lynn & Mike wrote:
>> Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie,
>> that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die.
>
>Yup, that's what I used to think. I felt sorry for all those poor
[...]
>have an open mind, all we can do is try) -- will become His followers.
This is *definitely* not the list for this nonsense.
(Still, I'll note that if you believe that stuff, you shouldn't believe in
computers, let alone use them. If you want to continue this off-list, feel
free to drop me a private note.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
The biggest chunk of my collection are games that I no longer have boxes
for, etc. Let alone original disks or license agreements. Heck, I think
even most of the companies are out of business by now. Anyone remember
Datasoft? Epyx?
At 06:39 AM 1/6/98 +0300, you wrote:
>OK... I've got a Cyrix 200, so give me your games. ;-) (Implying that you
>give me the listences, without them "installed" on any other machine) Or,
>if you've got some sharware....
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
OK... I've got a Cyrix 200, so give me your games. ;-) (Implying that you
give me the listences, without them "installed" on any other machine) Or,
if you've got some sharware....
-----Original Message-----
From: John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: operating systems
>At 08:48 AM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>Two, that today's computers run old software too quickly - that doesn't
>>sound like archaic software to me, if it's running directly on today's
>>machines and OSes.
>
>Try loading up Buck Rogers and the Planet of Zoom! on a Cyrix 200 and see
>how well it plays. Same goes for Frogger. :) They run blindingly fast,
>making them utterly worthless unless you use one of those slowdown utils,
>but most of those only run right on 486s.
>
> Three, that ancient games don't "hurt" today's
>>software market. Doing what?
>
>Doing what? Being available for "free" (illegally) out there for people to
>get to them. The fact that people are still playing them doesn't affect
>today's game market at all. It's a whole different ballpark out there these
>days.
>
>>so ... so, you say they should give up on them? A tenth of something is
>>still something.
>
>But repackaging the games and shipping them would up the price to at least
>$10.00 a piece, and you would have to come up with a cheap way to make sure
>the games ran at original speed on all systems, another few bucks for R&D
>right there, so you'll probably end up spending $50.00 for a compilation CD
>with maybe 10 games on it, and nothing else. (Can you say "Roberta Williams
>Sierra Compilation"?)
>
>Why not release the games as shareware, with no set ammount defined? People
>could pay what the game is worth to them. I think Maxis did that with the
>original SimCity.
>
>>Don't get me wrong and think I'm just flaming you... I agree, I wish
>
>Oh, not at all. I expected alot more flak from people when I started this
>thread, but was suprised at how well the members of the list are taking it.
>(so far)
>
>
>- John Higginbotham
>- limbo.netpath.net
>
First off, this goes for husbands too, since I'm sure there are women on
this list (but I don't pay much attention to irrelevancies like that).
At 07:01 PM 1/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>No no no. My wife, who is not at all into computers (still seems to pick
>up stuff fast and I don't have to tell her how to do something more than
>once usually), LOVES my hobby of collecting computers.
[...]
>Plus, she knows I won't give her a hard time about collecting Barbies,
>books and pets...because she's so understanding about my hobby.
Here's a tip: even cheaper than finding an SO with a hobby (I know what
Barbies and books can go for!) find a *good*, dedicated teacher.
You'll have evenings and weekends all to yourself while he/she does
homework, does lesson plans, etc. Of course, there are downsides -- like
getting up at 6am to drive her to school to drop off the 12page substitute
teacher plans she stayed up all night doing (and to do an hours' worth of
work) when she's too sick too go to school. 8^)
Of course, if you want understanding *and* free time, find a teacher who
collects something. That gets expensive though. (Donald Duck stuff can be
even more expensive than Barbies, and there's more of it!)
8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 11:52 PM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>some of the configuration tools) that you will be using an HP terminal
>that supports block mode, which (approximately) lets the application
Different commands from vt100 block mode of course. Most terminal emulators
*don't* include HP terminal emulation. (I've got Walker Richer & Quinn's
Reflections, so who cares. Though, there was a program back in the late
80's for the Atari ST that featured HP emulation; wish I'd bought a copy then!)
>> What is the shell like?
>
>The MPE command interpreter...well, I can't speak for the MPE/iX CI.
>I haven't used it enough.
MPE/iX (newer version for the new CPU models) is pretty much the same as
good old MPE, but with some of the extensions MPEX thought up tacked on.
>Well, you get EDIT/3000, which is a line-oriented editor that is
>suitable for use on all manner of terminals, even the printing ones.
Actually, EDIT/3000 isn't suitable for much at all. 8^) Much like MS-DOS's
EDLIN.
>(e.g. Robelle's QEDIT, which lots of 3000 folks swear by).
Some of us actually say our daily prayers to the Robelle Gods.
Probably my favorite aspect of MPE is file equations. You can define a name
and point it to just about anything, adding on a lot of control and options
and stuff. For example, you could say:
File Fred = Barney07.bed.rock;rec=-80,,f,ascii;disc=10000
which would mean that whenever you referenced fred (or *fred sometimes) the
computer would actually use the file Barney07 in the Bed group of the Rock
account (the file structure is a little wierd) and it would have an 80-byte,
fixed length, ASCII (not binary) record and a limit of 10000 records in the
file.
You can also point to printers:
File laser;dev=141,1,3
which would mean that "laser" would refer to the device on port 141, have an
output priority of 1 (very low) and have 3 copies. (Note: I may have my
syntax a little fouled up; that's why I use the online help a lot.)
You can even reference yourself:
File Me=$StdList;rec=-132,,f,ascii;nocctl
which means Me is my stdlist (my screen) which has a 132 byte record
(fixed-length, ascii) and doesn't use carriage control.
Of course, if you're feeling really non-productive, you can do:
File Output = $null
8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 09:51 PM 1/2/98 PST, you wrote:
>I am brimming with curiosity about the MPE OS: What is it like?
>
Frank is probably better off answering this than I, but...
MPE is a great OS. Been around since the mid-70's, I believe. The HP3000
series of computers is (I think) somewhat comparable to the DEC PDP series.
Two things you simply shouldn't be without on a 3000: Qedit and MPEX. Qedit
is an incredible editor while MPEX extends the capabilities of the OS.
Lots of third party support, very popular in the business side of things
(accounting depts., etc.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 10:45 PM 1/2/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> >get all those pretty colors... (Thank goodness *somebody*'s coloring all
>> >those boring old black and white movies! 8^)
>>
>Oh, coloring those b/w shows and movies ruined it because quality and
>appearance looked offish to me. The original NTSC b/w is what is
>original format designed for TV's in old days and it looked better
Just for the record... That was a *joke* about colorizing movies! It
should be illegal, punishable by drawing & quarterign. Movies made in b&w
(well, good ones, anyway) made use of the b&w; colorizing kills a lot of
what the director worked so hard for.
Just did't want anyone thinking I actually *liked* colorized movies... 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
<1. 386 or 486 box with AMI (American Megatrends) BIOS. I've had some
Exactly a AMI 386 is what I have.
<2. RAM is relatively unimportant BUT if you do not have more than 4 me
<you will need to go through a procedure to turn on your swap space BEFO
<running the install or it will crash and die.
8meg of ram
<3. Do NOT try doing the Linux running out of an MS-DOS directory on yo
<first install. I've NEVER done this nor do I suspect it's that pleasan
Not being done.
<4. Use IDE hard drives until you know enough about doing installs. Th
<you can use SCSI more effectively.
I was given today a 420meg IDE drive to replace the EDSI unit I had.
<5. If your BIOS can deal with the drive, Linux can too...with CERTAIN
<exceptions...on some BIOSs you're given the choice of using Normal, Lar
<or LBA for block addressing. Sometimes you have to try different
<settings to get a Linux install to go. Linux may complain if it thinks
<the drive has more than 1024 cylinders but the complaint can,
<essentially, be ignored these days. This is experience speaking.
826/16/63 vanilla even to dos!
<6. Be prepared to turn off caches...internal and external in the BIOS.
<Sometimes, especially on newer kernels like Slackware 3.0, you can't ge
<the boot floppy to go because it'll crash out and give you stack dump
<type information. Try turning off first the external cache and then th
<internal cache if that doesn't work. Not all caches are created equal
I'm not getting stackdumps. I'm getting all mannor of boot errors
related to the filesystem mountability or RW/RO status.
<7. Create TWO partitions with fdisk...the sequence looks like this...
I have one bootable 389mb linux and the other 16mb swap.
<8. If it's formatting the partitions and freaks out complaining that i
<can't write inodes or superblocks and gives you a long list of these
<complaints...and you have a drive over 2 gigs in size try creating 3
<partitions...the first two of equal size totalling most of the drive an
<the last being your swap. Or try a different block addressibility type
<in the BIOS.
Not a problem I get fully through the setup.
<9. There are usually different boot disk types...IDE only, IDE/SCSI,
<SCSI only. Make sure you use the IDE only. It's the easiest.
IDE is all I have other than floppy.
<10. If you want to install off cdrom and the install won't recognize t
<drive...wait for the boot prompt when you boot up and type install
<hdX=cdrom where X is a,b,c or d which correspond to what you're used to
<as Drive C:, D:, E: or F: If it's an IDE-ATAPI type CD-ROM, it should
CDrom is not installed, if it were it's a phillips cm205 (unsupported)
and not IDE-atapi. the CDrom is in another box (486powered) and the
floppies were made from there.
<Finally, if someone REALLY REALLY wants to load Linux on a system and i
<willing to follow my instructions, be patient with me, realize that I
<have a family to support and will send me some trinket in return (S-100
<cards, Shugart SA-400 drives, etc all work) AND are willing to call ME
<long-distance I can probably help you out. Email is probably easier.
Humm sa400? I may have one in the pile fairly unused.
The problem is nothing works as advertized for a vanilla install.
This box is as vanilla as they come.
AMI 386DX/33, 128k cache, 8mb ram, connor 420mb IDE, 3.5" 1.44 floppy,
serial mouse on com1: modem at com2:, DECPA(DE100) NI, TRIDENT 512k
SVGA. Runs dos/win3.1 real well(just to prove the hardware works).
It's taken a year to scrounge up all the parts to create this system.
Allison
The idea of using linux as a free OS on aging 386 boxen or as a platform
for getting a unix running on older classic platforms has merit.
There is one little bug... I've never seen a running linux box nor
have I been successful in getting one going. After loading 75 floppies
becuase the CDrom I have is not supported I'm more than annoyed and
have not found a resource to assist beyond suggesting I'd be better
off running microspooge. The latter is insulting and demeaning. On
the other hand if someone can prove that working slakware v3.0 really
exists I can be swayed.
Allison
That's TERRIBLE. I mean 486 parts can even get SOLD AS-IS for a decent sum
of money. The whole system goes for a couple hundred. So if they're going
to scrap 'em.... but anyway, lots of schools, non-profit orginazations, etc.
would love to have decent 386's, and 486's would be better. Sure, you can't
play Quake on 'em, but a 386 was designed with 10 years of x86 software in
mind.
And, as history has proven, it is easy to destroy, as the Romans,
Egyptians, Sumerians, and Greeks did, but it is so hard to CREATE and
PRESERVE. That's why we must try to save these things. Eventually, when
your or my XT is one of the last 60-75, we probably won't be alive, but the
future genereations will love seeing a working one.
Well, there's my $0.02 on this.
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: I don't believe this ****
>>At 07:43 AM 1/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>>Out of curiosity has anyone else with web pages dealing with classic
>>>computers been contacted by someone that wants to dispose of your
>>>collection as scrap? Talk about insulting!
>>>
>>> Zane
>>
>> No, but sounds like a good candidate for a mail bombing! I suppose he
>>wants you to ship it to him at your expense, right?
>
>I wouldn't doubt it. Here is what she had to say, with my original answer,
>I guess I should have added that I was also trying to save them from
>individuals like she was talking about.
>
>Initially I just thought she was fronting for someone that dealt in classic
>computers, so her reply REALLY PISSED ME OFF! Anything other than 486+
>get's melted down for scrap? I'm sorry, but that includes A LOT of systems
>that there are a lot of people that would love to have them. Besides
>considering the fact that some of the systems I've got, like the Atari
>TT030 go for several hundred dollars.
>
>>Hi, Zane.
>>
>>> >Seems u have a lot of equipment, any surplus that you might give away?
I
>>> >could get a good price for u, if you are interested.
>>>
>>> Um, No. It's a hobby, and an attempt to preserve a part of our history
>>> that is steadily finding it's way into our landfills.
>>
>>My local dealer supply old comps or household appliance to iron, alloy
>>or plastic mills. They melt them down and supply these to manufacturers.
>>
>>It's recycling.
>>
>>486-and-above systems get refurbished...
>>
>>Regards,
>>Crystal.
>
>
>| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
>| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
>| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
>| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
>| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
>| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
>
>
Just curoius...where does one purchase new filters for DEC RK05 drives?
I have three new ones, so I'm not in any immediate need. But, I'd just like
to establish a source.
Also, since I don't have the maintenance manual yet, what's the hours in
service between filter changes?
FYI...I contacted Dialight, the manufacturer of the LED replacement
lamps for the RK05 drives. The lamps are still manufactured, but they're a
"custom" part. Minimum order of each color is 90 at $2.47 each. If anyone is
interested, let me know. The sales rep at Dialight is researching the specs
on it since she is not familiar with what makes the part custom.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Last week-end, I got an original Atari 2600
brown console, in the original box. Haven't tried it yet...
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
At 04:51 PM 1/5/98 EST, you wrote:
>I'm sorry, but if people say it's ok to pirate old games, even more people
>than now will start to say, "Well, this game is not that new", and pirate IT.
>Now, I have nothing against software piracy on a simple basis: either I get
>the program for free, and the compay loses 50 bucks, or I don't get the
>program at all, which means that the company is still 50 bucks short.
However,
>my 14.4 modem helps me keep my morals straight :)
I guess we should just take this on a case by case basis. Most home pirates
never get caught. The "software cops" always go after the bigtime
distributors, people who make the copies and distribute them to others. I
don't think it really matters, because people are gonna do what they want
to do no matter what (Like me).
>How many people do you suppose would buy the original frogger? Even for $5?
>Even if someone put a rack of frogger diskettes for free out in CompUSA or
>something, how many would take it?
I sure as heck would. I never pass up on anything free. I would also pay $5
for the original Frogger if I had an XT or 286 sitting at home.
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
Didnt ESDI come out when the IBM PS/2 announced?
In a message dated 98-01-05 21:31:57 EST, you write:
<<
> MFM (early 80's?)
Very early 80's, I think, for the ST-506.
> RLL (late 80's?)
I tend to think of this as a minor variation of MFM, myself :-)
> SCSI (late 70's?)
The first official-type "SCSI specification" was proposed by an
ANSI committee in 1984. It was almost backwards-compatible with SASI
(Shugart Associates System|Storage Interface) which had been kicking
around since 1978 or 1979.
> ESDI (?)
Mid-80's
> IDE
aka "ATA", clostely related to the announcement of the IBM AT... which would
put it around 1985 or shortly afterwards? This wasn't really a new standard;
the IDE bus interface looks exactly like a WD1002 hooked up to a MFM drive!
> any others?
The SA4000 and SA1000 interfaces date from the late 70's.
And let's not forget the granddaddy of them all, SMD! (CDC, 1975 or so?)
And SMD's immediate descendant, the MASSBUS...
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
>>
> At 08:48 AM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >Two, that today's computers run old software too quickly - that doesn't
> >sound like archaic software to me, if it's running directly on today's
> >machines and OSes.
>
> Try loading up Buck Rogers and the Planet of Zoom! on a Cyrix 200 and see
> how well it plays. Same goes for Frogger. :) They run blindingly fast,
> making them utterly worthless unless you use one of those slowdown utils,
> but most of those only run right on 486s.
There is a PC-based game I got on a shareware CD that came with my Pentium-75
called "Galactic Food Fight". It is blindingly fast as well. It's shareware,
so if anyone wants a copy....
> Three, that ancient games don't "hurt" today's
> >software market. Doing what?
>
> Doing what? Being available for "free" (illegally) out there for people to
> get to them. The fact that people are still playing them doesn't affect
> today's game market at all. It's a whole different ballpark out there these
> days.
I'm sorry, but if people say it's ok to pirate old games, even more people
than now will start to say, "Well, this game is not that new", and pirate IT.
Now, I have nothing against software piracy on a simple basis: either I get
the program for free, and the compay loses 50 bucks, or I don't get the
program at all, which means that the company is still 50 bucks short. However,
my 14.4 modem helps me keep my morals straight :)
> >so ... so, you say they should give up on them? A tenth of something is
> >still something.
>
> But repackaging the games and shipping them would up the price to at least
> $10.00 a piece, and you would have to come up with a cheap way to make sure
> the games ran at original speed on all systems, another few bucks for R&D
> right there, so you'll probably end up spending $50.00 for a compilation CD
> with maybe 10 games on it, and nothing else. (Can you say "Roberta Williams
> Sierra Compilation"?)
>
> Why not release the games as shareware, with no set ammount defined? People
> could pay what the game is worth to them. I think Maxis did that with the
> original SimCity.
How many people do you suppose would buy the original frogger? Even for $5?
Even if someone put a rack of frogger diskettes for free out in CompUSA or
something, how many would take it?
> >Don't get me wrong and think I'm just flaming you... I agree, I wish
>
> Oh, not at all. I expected alot more flak from people when I started this
> thread, but was suprised at how well the members of the list are taking it.
> (so far)
>
>
> - John Higginbotham
>- limbo.netpath.net
>
BTW, where is that Linux emulator page?
-----Original Message-----
From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: I don't believe this ****
>
>
>> Out of curiosity has anyone else with web pages dealing with classic
>> computers been contacted by someone that wants to dispose of your
>> collection as scrap? Talk about insulting!
>
>I've never had anyone contact me. If they did, I'd ask them if I could
>buy some of their old computers by the pound. =-)
>
>Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
>
This time it is an "HM-6100 Pocket Reference Card" from Harris
Semiconductor. It is a simple one sheet affair (folded improperly,
unfortunately), describing Harris's implementation of the one chip PDP-8.
As with other offers, interested parties should give me a reason why they
need the thing, and I will shoot it out (postage is basically nothing) to
the winner. No "first come first serve" here.
Also as with other offers, I can be bribed with some equally small bit of
computer paper from the mini and mainframe world.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
Just wanted to let you all know I have a few odd and ends up on e-bay
right. An old TRS-80 stringy floppy drive, some TRS-80 manuals, etc. Just
check for the seller coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu for the complete listing of
what's up there now. The stringy floppy drive comes with 11 floppy
'wafers' and the auction on that will end tonight!
Just wanted to let you all know -- for whateevr it's worth?? :-)
CORD
##############################################################################
# Cord G. Coslor -- P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE #
# (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 #
# Classic computer software and hardware collector #
# Autograph collector #
##############################################################################
#The##/ ___ /#/ ___ /##/ ___ /#/ /##/ /#/_ __/#/ /#/ /#/ _____##
#####/ /##/ /#/ /##/ /##/ /##/__/#/ /##/ /###/ /###/ /#/ /#/ /#######
####/ ___ /#/ _ __/##/ /#######/ ___ /###/ /###/ /#/ /#/ _____/###
###/ /##/ /#/ /#\ \###/ /##/ /#/ /##/ /###/ /###/ /#/ /#/ /#########
##/__/##/__/#/_/###\_\#/________/#/__/##/__/#/______/#/_______/#/________/####
##############################################################################
John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote:
>At 11:20 AM 1/4/98 -0600, John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote:
>>of people out there who like to play old computer games, but you think
>>the software owners shouldn't be free to sell to that market because
>>there's no gain in productivity or increase in "harm"? What about
>>learning or enjoyment?
>
>If you can find any message where I said that, I'd be happy to argue
>against it, but I don't think I would type that in so many words. Software
>companies SHOULD be able to sell these old games, but they can never expect
>to get the original price out of them.
It was the text in surrounding by <rant> in your January 4 message:
><rant>
>Which brings up an interesting point: Why do the self appointed software
>cops go after software archives of "abandonware" that most of today's
>computers usually run too fast anyway? Do these ancient games really hurt
>todays software market? Anything 10 years old or older should be
>freeware/public domain as far as games are concerned. They don't increase
>productivity, and the collectors of these old games aren't doing any harm
>are they?
></rant>
I'll restate what you said, as I saw it. One, there are self-appointed
software cops - you mean people who defend copyright, even of old software?
Two, that today's computers run old software too quickly - that doesn't
sound like archaic software to me, if it's running directly on today's
machines and OSes. Three, that ancient games don't "hurt" today's
software market. Doing what? Four, you say the ten-year-rule "should"
apply to games, making them (who sez?) be PD/freeware. Five, that games
don't increase productivity and that "collecting" them (pirating them?)
doesn't cause harm. And in your reply, you say that even if the developers
sell their old games, they shouldn't expect to get the old retail price,
so ... so, you say they should give up on them? A tenth of something is
still something.
My point is that people want to play games as much as use anything
else when it comes to old software. They want to recreate their
experience of years ago. Emulation and re-creation can be very handy!
I'm surprised there aren't non-MS products that streamline the gotcha's
out of running DOS, Windows 1.0, 2.0, 3.x software under Win95/NT.
Or maybe there is and I haven't heard of it. I'd love to get a copy
of Brief that wouldn't hog so much CPU in DOS emulation under WinNT.
I'm still running my 1986 copy. Is that archaic?
Don't get me wrong and think I'm just flaming you... I agree, I wish
there was a better mechanism that authors of extinct software could
use to allow new life for their old software. Sort of a national park
or conservatory for old software would be nifty. If it resulted in
payments back to the registered authors, I bet it could work. You'd
need to find volunteers altruistic enough to donate their efforts in
order to be able to send other people checks. The checks might be small
or non-existent - perhaps the authors understand that the price charged
would just fund the charity set up to distribute the software. It would
be a strange sort of charity, sort of like the Old Actor's Home, except the
charity cases might be Time-Warner or the programmer who was a millionaire
at 15 with his Commodore 64 games, who's now pushing 30 and running his own
200+ person company. In terms of effort, the hard part will be tracking
down the proper owners of all that old software.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
Joe wrote:
> I don't remember who asked for the part number for the HP 85 printer drive
> belt but I finally dug out my service manual and found the numbers. There
> are two belts in the printer. One drives the carriage and is PN 1500-0529.
> The other drives the paper advance and is PN 1500-0572. If one is bad you
> should go ahead and replace both. During the week you can call HP's
> automated ordering line at 1-800-227-8164 and order them if they're still
> available. Let me know if these are still available and what they cost. If
> you can't get them, let me know and I'll open up one of my 85s and measure
> the belts and to to match them up with something from Small Parts Inc or
> one of the other companies.
Thanks, Joe. Someone posted HP part numbers a while back, and my
colleague is going to try the HP order line in this country first.
Meanwhile, I have extracted the belts from my own HP-85 and measured
them - FWIW they are 175T80 and 78T80 (according to the markings on the
belts) - 0.080 inch tooth spacing, 78 teeth for the paper feed and 175
teeth for the print head.
My colleague says that if he manages to buy some new ones, he will get
me a spare set as well...
Philip.
> Once you find software on-line - One of the real bummers is that the
> 8032 does not have an RS-232 port for easy communication (read: file
> transfer via null-modem) nor is the 8050 drive compatible with any other
> Commodore disk drive (like the 4040/2031 is compatible with the 1541 thus
> making it easy to get software to a 4040 by doing a null-modem to a 64
> and writing with a 1541).
I thought the 8050 was compatible with the 1571. Am I mistaken? I know
it's not compatible with the 8252 (or whatever it's called - the double
sided 8050 that's also built into the 8296D) which is silly and v.
annoying.
> Though I am not saying it is impossible; the PET does have a parallel
> user port which is VERY easy to program. With a bit of coding knowledge
> a few parts and soldering you could whip up a PET-to-Whatever connector
> and the appropriate software for transferring files.
Absolutely. I have a couple of amusing tales about this.
In 1983-84, a friend, M J Richards, and I (aged 15 and 16 respectively
at the time) developed an adventure game for the BBC micro. But we
started by typing in all the text on an 8032, followed by compression
and encryption. We then wanted to squirt this module across to the
Beeb. Alas, MJR's Beeb only had OS version 0.10, which didn't support
input on the serial port. Also alas, the 8032SK uses IEEE-488 (GPIB)
style connectors for the user port and we didn't have any. In the end,
we used the cassette motor output on the PET and the analogue input on
the BBC. Data rate was 30 baud as I recall!
Later we wanted to produce a full program listing from a disassembler
program on the BBC. By then, 8032 had returned to Dad's office, and the
only printer we had left was a Teletype ASR33. Alas again! The BBC
serial port didn't support 110 baud. PET to the rescue again - I had an
old ROM 8K machine. A few wires and a transistor later, I had an
interface - PET received data at 4800 baud on one pin of the user port
and transmitted it (via the transistor) to the Teletype on another pin.
Finally, we wanted to port the software to other machines. Acorn
Electron port was easy - it actually runs on the BBC micro if you try
hard enough - but Commodore 64 port was more difficult. I cannot
remember if I had upgraded my PET to 32K by then - I think probably not
- but we somehow got it across the same 4800 baud link and onto tape,
whence it was loaded onto a 64.
On my list of things to do now is finish the PET port of the game...
I'd be interested to hear from anyone who actually played the game - it
was licensed to a software house called Alligata who sold it as "Xanadu
Cottage" - about 400 copies were sold, I think (BBC model B only).
Also, if anyone wants a copy for their BBC B / Electron / C= 64, please
get in touch. There are still slight bugs in the tape routines for
saved positions, afaik, but otherwise it runs well.
Finally, who would like to see / play / beta-test a PET version? And
what model(s) of PET do you have?
Terms for software distribution will be shareware - if you want to pay
for the game, a suitable donation to a charity caring for Hodgkins'
Disease (of which MJR later died) is requested.
Philip.
At 12:08 AM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Send me a private email if you want to do this. I've left this public
>because I thought it might be of use to others.
>
>Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
>
No! Leave it public. I'm curious about Linux and I'm following this.
It's better than the day time soap operas!
Joe
>
Well, if anyone wants it I can ship my FreeBSD 2.2.5 CD which I got a part
of a misorder. Because I got it for free, I'll charge whatever shipping
costs. Actually, I just am finishing installing my first Linux (Unix too!)
system on my 200MHz "Demon" (for Linux), but I need to contact the tech
support guies because they orginazied the CD so @%^# poorly. It's Debian,
and the install was slicker than ANY other OS that I've installed, from
billg's DOS 2.0 to Windows 95. Also, I feel like I've got the POWER
pre-installed, not something that you need to spend about 5 or 6 months
looking for. Plus my Debian package came with browsers, server software
(Apache included, along with the Cern servers, NCSA servers, etc.), and
almost any X-Window look you can imagine, from the NeXT style to Mac to Win
95. Well, if I ever get to an area of the planet with unlimited access time
measured in items smaller than tens of thousands of bucks for a modem, I
think that I'll see what I can do.
Well, contact me if you want FreeBSD (anyone),
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Linux???? is it real
>>PS: Sheesh the FreeBSD people are always jumping around saying, "Can't
>>get Linux to work? Try FreeBSD!"
>>
>>Linux only has a few stable kernels and Slackware uses them.
>
>Heh, you know my answer for the BSD people, which BSD? Let's see; FreeBSD,
>OpenBSD, NetBSD, 386BSD, BSD/OS, BSD Lite, I don't know what else is there.
>Personally I've got a Hard Drive with OPENSTEP, that's the only BSD system
>I'm currently running. At least Linux development is pretty much
>controlled chaos, BSD on the other had seems to be to simply be chaos.
>Yes, I know that there are quite a few different Linux distributions, but
>they all run the same kernal and to a great extent the same software.
>
>Linux has two types of kernals, production and development. If you want
>stable use production, if you want "Bleeding Edge" use development. My
>Linux fileserver has been running for over 15 months with the same software
>install, without a crash.
>
>Seriously the question you need to ask yourself when deciding which to use
>is if you want a UNIX System V based system, or a BSD 4.3/4.4 based system.
>If you want SysV go with Linux, if you want BSD then chose your poison,
>personally I'd recommend FreeBSD for the Intel architecture, OpenBSD for
>anything else.
>
>Realistically the two are basically the same, on the topic of documentation
>is about the only real difference. You can find a ton of books specific to
>Linux, as far as I know the only BSD 4.4 specific books are the Berkley
>docs that Linux printed.
>
>I find OpenBSD of intrest because it's purpose is to be multiplatform,
>however, I think the total USENET traffic for it is less than
>comp.os.linux.announce
>
>I've got to agree with the comment that Linux is great for running
>emulators. I'm still looking for a PDP-11 of my own, but in the mean time
>I can play with the PDP-11 emulator under Linux and run stuff like RT-11 or
>Version 5 UNIX.
>
> Zane
>
>
>| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
>| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
>| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
>| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
>| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
>| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
>
>
Let's start the new year off with an interesting one, eh?
Since it seems that there are as many people out there looking for Altairs
as are looking for PDP-8's, and the original PDP-8 ('straight' 8) is the
one major model of the line that seems to keep eluding me, I'm offering the
following:
---
One electronically restored and functional MITS Altair 8800 (the original,
not the later 'a' or 'b' series), 16k of static memory, MITS serial card,
complete documentation set, and a set of MITS (Microsoft) Altair BASIC
paper tapes (4k, 8k, 12k version) and other paper tape based utilities.
(NOTE: memory is non-MITS, docs may be mix of original and reprints)
In trade for:
One Digital Equipment Corporpation PDP-8 (original, not later 'i', 'e',
etc... series), with 4k or more of core, and serial (teletype) control.
Any additional options welcome. Desktop configuration desired, but
rackmount configuration perfectly acceptable. Documentation and
engineering prints desired as is any original software (diags, languages,
etc.), but lack of same does not disqualify. Functional unit desired, but
non-functional units will be considered as long as they are complete (all
cards, modules, etc.) and have no unusual physical damage.
Shipping/delivery arrangements for both units to be discussed separately.
Location of unit may be a consideration. (my location: Beaverton Oregon)
Any takers?
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
Saw these things in a second-hand store in Las Vegas the other day:
Coleco Adam
Franklin Ace 1200
Lanier <somethingorother>
(it had two 5.25" floppy drives, two LEDs, and two
rocker switches on its front panel)
CoCo 2
Although I was awfully tempted, I ended up deciding they wouldn't fit
in my luggage, so they are probably still there, at the "Faith Lutheran"
thrift store, at 707 N. Rancho.
Let the race begin!
Bill.
At 10:56 PM 1/4/98, you wrote:
>>Wives?
>
> OK to have more than one of those too, just not at the same time!
Unless you live in Utah...
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
> Let me recount what has been discussed over the past 36 hours:
> Linux vs Windows (My fault, sorry!)
> Why dogs lick their balls
> Atheism
> What makes a good marriage
> Copyrights
You forgot pot roasts
>
> Now, I will try to get us back on track. Is there a GeoWrite-like program
for
> something besides C-64, which is where I saw it, with fonts and stuff
> displaying on screen as I type? PC-XT would be nice
Yes. I have Geoworks with no manual, but a third party "how to" book.
E-mail me privately.
manney(a)nwohio.com
I'm looking for some information on a Laser 128. I've had one for several
months now, and have known that it was an Apple clone. Unfortunatly it has
a mouse, but no Power Supply. However, a couple days ago I got a second
one, this time with no mouse, but it has the Power Supply and an external
floppy drive and monitor cable.
So I just plugged it into one of my little Apple IIc monitors since one was
handy, and I'm happy to say it works. Even boots DOS 3.3 (will it run
ProDOS?).
One slight problem, the keyboard makes no sense, when I hit a key,
something else comes up. Is this because I don't have their version of the
OS, or is there a problem with the computer, or what? Any ideas?
While I'm at it, will the little IIc green monitors display anything other
than 40 columns? Looking at the manuals it looks like I should be able to
get my IIc to display 80 columns on it, but I've not been able to. IIRC I
have been able to get my Franklin Ace 1200 to run CP/M on one in 80
columns. I'm aware of the 40/80 column button on the IIc, but I've tried
two different IIc's with no luck.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
Let me recount what has been discussed over the past 36 hours:
Linux vs Windows (My fault, sorry!)
Why dogs lick their balls
Atheism
What makes a good marriage
Copyrights
Now, I will try to get us back on track. Is there a GeoWrite-like program for
something besides C-64, which is where I saw it, with fonts and stuff
displaying on screen as I type? PC-XT would be nice
> >Well, frogger is a good example of why not. I see they're bringing it
out
> >again.
>
> Okay, so you own a new computer, maybe a P200 mmx and you have this old
copy
> of frogger, from your XT days... If this old copy gets out on the
internet
> or elsewhere, is it going to affect sales of the new Frogger version?
Well, I meant...Frogger is an axample of why "they" don't just throw game
concepts out the window. Frogger seems to have been resurrected. You're
right -- the new one is different, and most young users would prefer the
new version (I LIKED the old one, though! Anyone have Frogger for the PC
for sale?)
Hullo;
I'm trying to finish restoring my Apollo DN5500, but I can't seem to track
down the parts I need. Maybe somebody here can help...
I need the following for sure:
Apollo P/N 012600-01 -- 760 MB ESDI disk (Maxtor XT-8760E)
011778 -- 60 MB SCSI QIC drive (Archive 2060S)
SR10.3.5 or 10.4 tapeset (not the 10.4.1 RAI
like I've got already).
These would also be useful but are not needed:
Apollo P/N 12173 -- 8 plane 1280x1024 video board
7550 -- 3 button DOMAIN mouse
If you could help me out, I'd appreciate it greatly. This Apollo has been
sitting around half-working for too long.
Oh, and on an unrelated tangent, I could also use a Mac SE/30 motherboard,
which has similarly eluded me. (:
Thanks.
ok
-r
--
r e d @ b e a r s . o r g
=============================
[ urs longa | vita brevis ]
<If you download the latest elks kernel source - 0.0.67 at the moment bu
<0.0.68 is due out anytime, along with elkscmd.tar.gz you will have an
<almost complete Linux subset for the 8086 with which you can then work.
<The acronym ELKS is 'Embeddable Linux Kernel Subset' but the project is
That's interesting but linux on a 386 is still frustrating me to the
max!
Allison
At 11:20 AM 1/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>of people out there who like to play old computer games, but you think
>the software owners shouldn't be free to sell to that market because
>there's no gain in productivity or increase in "harm"? What about
>learning or enjoyment?
If you can find any message where I said that, I'd be happy to argue
against it, but I don't think I would type that in so many words. Software
companies SHOULD be able to sell these old games, but they can never expect
to get the original price out of them.
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
> One of the problems with using a RS printer on a PC is that the RS units
> all (most?) add a linefeed in the printer firmware. If you do not know
> the escape sequence to disable it everything comes out doublespaced. And
> not all of their escape sequences were the same.
> - don
I've never had a problem with that...they usually print the info on the
back. My problem is the the early DMP dot matrix series (before 134, I
think) will not respond to many PC parallel ports. I've heard that Radio
Schlock has a cable to fix that, but they said no.
Anyway, these early DMP's respond to most modern motherboards. Don't know
why.
manney
> >Well, frogger is a good example of why not. I see they're bringing it
out
> >again.
>
> I played a demo of the new Frogger on my Playstation, it's NOTHING like
the
> original! Give me the original any day, it was all on the screen at one
> time!
>
> Zane
I don't mean that the new one is better, just that it doesn't seem to have
died. I loved the original one, too (on an Atari 400, as I recall.)
manney
<V7 and BSD ran fine on the PDP-11. All it will take to port ELKS will
<be somebody with access to PDP-11 hardware, a working Linux system, an
<too much time on their hands. To quote a movie from twenty years back
I have the 11/23 or 11/73 to pick from (with 30meg of disk).
I have a pdp11 C compiler (decus C) running under RT-11.
I can copy elks sources to the 11
ELKS is only an embedded kernel. Oops.
UZI unix is for z80 and could be ported too (it's in C save for
LL-drivers).
Allison
John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote:
>Which brings up an interesting point: Why do the self appointed software
>cops go after software archives of "abandonware" that most of today's
>computers usually run too fast anyway? Do these ancient games really hurt
>todays software market? Anything 10 years old or older should be
>freeware/public domain as far as games are concerned. They don't increase
>productivity, and the collectors of these old games aren't doing any harm
>are they?
So let me get this straight: on one hand, you're saying there's a bunch
of people out there who like to play old computer games, but you think
the software owners shouldn't be free to sell to that market because
there's no gain in productivity or increase in "harm"? What about
learning or enjoyment?
I think this list proves there is some small level of demand for old
stuff... and certainly game makers like Microsoft and Atari have done
well by selling relatively inexpensive pre-made collections of
either the exact old games or updated emulations. I'm stunned by
the amount of software that has been collected and redistributed
(largely illegally) for the very good software-based emulators
for old computers. Many of these emulators have become commercial
products, again proving there's a bit of profit left in old software.
On the other hand, I agree with some of your sentiment - it would be
nice if there was a more formalized, established and accepted method
that antique computer collectors could secure the rights to redistribute
software that the owners have in fact abandoned.
For example, I've tried to track down the rights to the Terak computer,
as described on my web page. Terak was sold to CalComp, then a Sanders
company, which was later assimilated by Lockheed-Martin. Try to wind
your way through that bureaucracy to find the long-time employee who
*might* be able to track down those assets - if you could convince
them of the good intent of your interest, and that they should take
time out of their day to help you.
Similarly, I tried to clarify the rights to UCSD Pascal's p-code system.
The UCSD licensing agency has stated that the license is non-exclusive,
but in reality they have only one licensee, Cabot Systems in the UK,
who are actively trying to sell the P-System as an alternative to Java
for set-top boxes and embedded applications. Ken Bowles, author of a
well-known early book on Pascal and one of the original designers of
the P-System, believes that at least the early versions should be
public domain because they were developed by the university with
government funds, or something like that.
You can see the problem: as soon as you *ask* about the obscure software
and claim there's hundreds of people interested in using it, someone
sees dollar signs and doesn't want to simply give it away. Non-profit
collectors feel they're a "good cause" and that they'd take really
good care of the stuff, but there are collectors and publishers out
there who do seek to make a profit.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
Yeah, BTW, how old are the RS/6K's?
-----Original Message-----
From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: UNIX questions?
>Olminkhof wrote:
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com>
>> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>> Date: Sunday, 4 January 1998 11:46
>> Subject: Re: UNIX questions?
>>
>> >It'll be nice when Caldera follows up on their promise to release the
>> >source code for CP/M and DR-DOS (now OpenDOS). _That_ will definitely
>> >have some results on-topic for this mailing list.
>>Ward Griffiths
>>
>> They already HAVE released the source code for OpenDOS. While it is far
>> beyond me to do anything with it, I found it very well commented and
>> interesting. I was amazed at the number of "fixes" for specific hardware.
>
>You're right -- they _have_. It wasn't there a couple of weeks ago
>when I was printing out all of the manuals (which are the best that
>I've ever seen outside of the Linux Documentation Project -- they make
>the manuals that used to come with MS-DOS look like crap). Well, that
>takes care of my lunch hour Monday while I dump it from the T-1 to a
>Zip disk. Have to remember to grab a sandwich at Blimpy's at Newark
>Penn Station in the morning.
>
>Yes, I know a Zip disk has a lot more space than will be needed -- but
>for some reason I've taken to isolating my archives to avoid confusion.
>All of my material from Tim Mann's TRS-80 site is on one, all of my
>AT&T Unix PC material is on another, and so on for the Color Computer,
>the ST, the Mod 100 etc. Eventually, I'll wind up burning a couple of
>CDs -- since somebody was kind enough to find an excuse for one at work.
>Pity that it's attached to an NT box, since I'd prefer to use proper
>Unix filenames -- but maybe I can sucker^H^H^H^H^H^Htalk my boss into
>letting me hook it up to one of my RS/6000s for a couple of hours.
>--
>Ward Griffiths
>Dylan: How many years must some people exist,
> before they're allowed to be free?
>WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed",
> they'll never be free.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, 4 January 1998 11:46
Subject: Re: UNIX questions?
>It'll be nice when Caldera follows up on their promise to release the
>source code for CP/M and DR-DOS (now OpenDOS). _That_ will definitely
>have some results on-topic for this mailing list.
>--
>Ward Griffiths
They already HAVE released the source code for OpenDOS. While it is far
beyond me to do anything with it, I found it very well commented and
interesting. I was amazed at the number of "fixes" for specific hardware.
>From: "Cliff Gregory" <cgregory(a)lrbcg.com>
>Subject: CBM 8032
>Anyone have a source for manuals/software for a CBM 8032 /8050 floppy >drive?
>Cliff Gregory
>cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
First try might be the PET archives at:
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/
After that I can offer you this:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/petfaq.htmlhttp://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/diskbasics.htmlhttp://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/loadingbasics.html
Lastly check out the Commodore information on Jim Brain's Commodore site
(Caboom), which includes a PET www message SIG:
http://www.jbrain.com/caboom/
================================
Once you find software on-line - One of the real bummers is that the
8032 does not have an RS-232 port for easy communication (read: file
transfer via null-modem) nor is the 8050 drive compatible with any other
Commodore disk drive (like the 4040/2031 is compatible with the 1541
thus making it easy to get software to a 4040 by doing a null-modem to a
64 and writing with a 1541).
Though I am not saying it is impossible; the PET does have a parallel
user port which is VERY easy to program. With a bit of coding knowledge
a few parts and soldering you could whip up a PET-to-Whatever connector
and the appropriate software for transferring files.
Larry Anderson
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/
Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
I note that you *N*X users mention recompiling the kernel. Is that
something peculiar to the UNIX/LINUX world? Is it done by the average user?
I presume (from "context clues", as my fourth grade son's homework puts it)
that it provides a smaller/faster/more crashproof installation.
I've always run CP/M and Bill's M$-DO$ and have no experience with UNIX.
Should I -- I fix boxen and run online and graphics apps; I don't program
much anymore -- play with UNIX? What would I get out of it?
manney
At 06:01 PM 1/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Should I -- I fix boxen and run online and graphics apps; I don't program
>much anymore -- play with UNIX? What would I get out of it?
Headaches one day, major breakthroughs the next, a trip to the crazy house a
few weeks later... I'm a user, and I can honestly say I can quit any time I
want!
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
Awhile back there was talk here about getting the documentation for the
classic machines as while as the machines themself. I picked up a IBM
Guide to Operations manual 6025113 Dated 1981,1982 and listed as the First
Edition. In the back was a clear plastic bag with a casette tape for
Diagnostic's number 6081562 version 1.02 new and unopened. The book cost
me 50 cents at the Goodwill. Also got a AMIGA monitor I believe a 1080 for
$15 at Goodwill. I also won the bid on a very large bo full of computers,
parts, TV's, microwaves, and other items for 35.00 will list later after I
sort it all out. Keep computing !!! John
> Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie,
> that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die.
Yup, that's what I used to think. I felt sorry for all those poor
misguided fools, Christians. (Didn't occur to me that some of them
were very bright, and very skeptical, and had spent years studying
to seek truth, & only then became Christians.)
And then one day, I was forced to examine my 'beliefs', & was a
little surprised to see that they were assumptions only. Bummer.
So I had to check it out for myself. Sure is a ton of info out
there, some good, some not, but anyway I was finally able to go
1%, & God went the other 99.
So I now believe that anyone who diligently tries to disprove the
teachings of Jesus, or seeks truth or whatever terminology you can
live with -- with any kind of open mind at all (none of us can truly
have an open mind, all we can do is try) -- will become His followers.
Go and do likewise. Don't be chicken.......
Regards,
---mikey
I am the owner of a Kaypro 10 computer kindly left to me by a deceased
friend, unfortunately I have no manual which restricts my use of the
computer. can you help me please?
Dave
Actually, the ELKS webpage mentions that it should be technically possible and
not-too-difficult to port ELKS to PDP-11
In a message dated 98-01-03 01:08:46 EST, you write:
<< > >This argument is going to piss off Bill Whitson when he next checks in.
> >Linux is _not_ within the scopy of this mailing list. And I recall an
>
> Well, Linux does run on 10+ year old systems, so on that basis this might
> be an OK subject. For example, my Amiga 2000's are over ten years old I
> believe, and with the proper accelerator they can run Linux. In fact with
> it's merits (yes, I know I'm one of those argueing).
>
> >item in the FAQ that this _not_ the right place for dicksize wars
> >between proponents of different systems -- the "advocacy" newsgroups
> >supply corrals for that gunfight.
>
> This on the otherhand is definitly not a correct topic for the mailing
> list, and yes, I think this fact is mentioned in the FAQ.
Well, I'm not sure that Wind-blows is really an appropriate topic either
but I see people talking about it all the time.
I doubt it will 'piss' Bill off since we're talking about how Linux can
be used to 'resurrect' ancient and obsolete hardware like 386sx's and so
on. Although it's not Altairs, I think it is in the spirit of what we're
all about.
Heck, every day I wonder why there isn't a Linux PDP-11 port. =-)
Wirehead - Anthony Clifton >>
Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote:
> Yeap, it plugs into the socket under the panel on the back. I have one
> Tech BASIC ROM, also have TWO! System Engineering ROMs (Unix in a ROM) and
> even have a Service ROM. I also have Tech BASIC on disk. Now you just need
> to find an Integral!
Very cool! Where did you find those ROMs?
I have an Integral, but it's ROM just has the HP-UX kernel and PAM --
just enough to boot and run things. So I have /usr/bin (Unix
utilities, C compiler, &c) on a 9134 for when I actually want to do
something with it.
Back when they were new I looked at buying one, and that seemed to be
how you were expected to do things: if you actually wanted to wrangle
code in C you needed the hard disk. Kind of made me wonder why they
made it portable. Also I could never get a straight answer on whether
the HP terminal windows were capable of block-mode (like I needed to
talk to the 3000).
> BTW I found a HP 7912 at a surplus store. It's about 18" wide and 2 foot
> deep and three foot tall. I *think* it's a 600+ Meg hard drive with a
> built-in tape drive. Do you know for sure? I need a couple of external
> hard drives if you know where I can find one. I'd rather have something
> like a 9133, 7959 etc instead of a monster like the 7912!
7912...I'm rusty on these, but it's nowhere near 600MB. I'm thinking
more like 60 or 130MB.
-Frank McConnell
Gee, and I thought this was a classic computer mailing list. silly me...
In a message dated 98-01-03 15:42:53 EST, somebody went WAY off topic and
said:
<< Um, I'm not sure what you just said, but:
a) I'm sure this has nothing to do with old computers, unless God stands for
Graphic Output Device :)
b)I think you mean that if one tries to disprove Jesus, they automatically
God's followers, but,once again, I'm not sure
Original Message:
<< > Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie,
> that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die.
Yup, that's what I used to think. I felt sorry for all those poor
misguided fools, Christians. (Didn't occur to me that some of them
were very bright, and very skeptical, and had spent years studying
to seek truth, & only then became Christians.)
And then one day, I was forced to examine my 'beliefs', & was a
little surprised to see that they were assumptions only. Bummer.
So I had to check it out for myself. Sure is a ton of info out
there, some good, some not, but anyway I was finally able to go
1%, & God went the other 99.
So I now believe that anyone who diligently tries to disprove the
teachings of Jesus, or seeks truth or whatever terminology you can
live with -- with any kind of open mind at all (none of us can truly
have an open mind, all we can do is try) -- will become His followers.
Go and do likewise. Don't be chicken.......
Regards,
---mikey >>
>>
I don't know RS stuff all that well. I'm assuming yours is a parallel
printer.
> >I was wondering if I can connect my DMP-100 to a PC through the parallel
> >port in the back and if I need a special cable ? According to the
manual,
> >this port was made for TRS-80 only. It doesn't talk about PC in the
manual.
Many radio Schlock printers will work with some PC's and not others. I get
the best luck with the newer motherboards (486/Pentium).
> >If someone was able to connect it to a PC, please let me know how and
which
> >driver did you use in Windows?
Use the "Generic" driver
> >
> >I was wondering if someone has a spare cable to connect this printer to
a
> >TRS-80 COCO II or III (using the DIN connector) to giveaway ? If not,
which
> >part number
> >do I need to order from Radio Shack ?
Weren't the COCO's serial? If the DMP-100's parallel, she won't work.
btw, I do have several RS "edge card" parallel cables (a la Tandy 1000) if
anyone wants.
Given the recent prices mentioned for Lisas and Apples, maybe I should ask
$100 each for 'em!
manney(a)nwohio.com
At 12:37 PM 1/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>> >> A LINC!!???!?!?!
>> >
>> >Wirehead - Anthony Clifton
>> >
>> >PS: Notice I haven't WHERE I'm getting the stuff from. I'll just keep
>> >THAT little secret until they're safely in my basement. ;-D
>> >
>> >
>> That's even better, that way it will be all packed and ready. Just tell
>> us where your basement is :-)
>>
>Well you'd have to get past The Attack Cats of Lurking Evil, The Pet Rats
>of Flailing Vengence and The Death Bunny. After that you'd have to
>navigate the basement without having a giant bookshelf or computer topple
>over on you, crushing you. After that you'd have to carry the equipment
>upstairs avoiding the Doorknob of Bruised Hips, The Furniture of Hunger
>that feeds on unwary shins and finally Steps Into The Abyss at the front
>porch which never seem to be where you remembered them. =-)
No problem. Sounds just like my house only we have Killer Parakeets as
well!
>
>Indiana Jones and the Computer Room of Doom
>
>Wirehead - Anthony Clifton
>
>
> As an example at home my primary machine is a Macintosh, I know that my
> Pentium running Linux is more stable, and runs a better OS. But I am far
> more productive on my Macintosh, and the Applications that I want to run
>are available on the Mac.
Which IS what I meant at the beginning that started this whole little
discussion! Linux is trying to compete with Windows 95 and MacOS, but is not
designed around getting documents typed, and stuff like that, so the average
user would be awfully unproductive, and the "power user" would spend years
tweaking their shell script and recompiling the kernel to run vi perfectly,
which can't even do fonts!
i picked this machine up for free: here's what i got.
the H89A in good condition. possible power problem. clean, and in great
cosmetic shape. even got the original dust cover for it!
external 5.25 floppy drive.
about 50 disks with cpm, wordstar, dbase, and several other apps.
the best part is the extensive documentation. i have *ALL* the construction
manuals,schematics, bios listings, software reference guides, and original
disks in their packaging. even had some 8 inch cpm disks included!
the person that gave me this machine wants to join the list. if someone can
email me directly with what i need to tell him to subscribe, let me know
please.
david
> a)I am curious to know what that sed command line _was_
cat filename | sed s/"text to replace"/"replacement text"/g > outfile
You can also do
sed s/"text to replace"/"replacement text"/g < infile > outfile
In my case it was under 40 characters to replace every instance of 1995 with
1997 in a 25mb file.
> b)I appreciate Linux's usefulness for networks (I did mention TCP/IP stacks,
> remember :), but I see no use in it for anything else. i.e. stuff like word
> processing. Since that is the most common computer function today, I would
> think Linux would have some utility for it, but all there is is stuff like vi
> and EMACS. Why can't Linux folks settle with some MS Word-style program?
>
First, I don't consider word processing to be a meaningful test of an OS's
usefulness. Word processing is probably the most wasteful way ever
invented to use personal computers. Sure it's easy but I can word
process just as quickly and easily on my old Mac SE as I can on a new 95
box.
Second, there are applications...I believe WordPerfect is available for
Linux as well as many other WSIWYG programs. I don't use them on my
Linux box because I prefer to have it do useful things.
Third, I think you need to pick up a copy of Linux Journal as it has
listings for commercial software etc.
Fourth, let's not underestimate the value of what you call 'TCP/IP Stack'
operations. We're not talking about a replacement for Trumpet Winsock
here...we're talking about being able to do EVERYTHING that thousands of
dollars worth of commercial software can do, do it better and
FASTER...for FREE. The financial value of that alone is incalculable
when you realize how much of the Internet simply would not have been
implemented had it not been for Linux (and other free unix-based OSs).
> But wait! I DID try installing a small text editor to run under X. It needed
> MOTIF, but said it would run with LessTIF. So, I copy over LessTIF and it
> doesn't compile. Neither does the little notepad program, for that matter.
All of this software you mention, or equivalents, is readily available on
sunsite.unc.edu or other Linux archives in binary form.
> That was the end of my last try at Linux, a few months ago. I have a Slackware
> Linux CD with Kernels up to 1.3.12. I now have T-1 access, though, so if you
> can suggest a system which COULD BE A VIABLE REPLACEMENT FOR MacOS OR WINDOWS,
Linux isn't a replacement for MacOS or Windows...it goes FAR BEYOND the
capabilities of either. Certainly you can use it for word processing,
using the WordPerfect etc mentioned above, but Linux boxes are serious
business machines that can represent thousands of dollars in revenues to
a business that uses it.
It's like saying a Cray could never be useful because you can't run
Microsoft Word on it. I don't think it's reasonable to make Word the
be-all end-all basis for judging a machine.
Keep in mind that there's a trade-off between flexibility and
ease-of-use. Linux will never be as easy to install as Windows 95. It
isn't intended for that purpose. It's far too powerful and flexible for
that and assumes that the user wants to go beyond mere word processing.
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
> Which brings up an interesting point: Why do the self appointed software
> cops go after software archives of "abandonware" that most of today's
> computers usually run too fast anyway? Do these ancient games really hurt
> todays software market? Anything 10 years old or older should be
> freeware/public domain as far as games are concerned. They don't increase
> productivity, and the collectors of these old games aren't doing any harm
> are they?
Well, frogger is a good example of why not. I see they're bringing it out
again.
Copyrights are what? 37 years? As someone who produces intellectual
property (Photos and -- occasionally -- software), I appreciate copyright
protection.
Can't tell you why the self appointed software cops go after 'em...maybe
because they're easy?
manney
Normally I wouldn't do something like this, but I suspect I'm not the only
one that will find this of interest. I'm posting some of the data because
the web page is almost impossibly slow!
Well looking for new Amiga web pages I found a most interesting Web page
about the "Catweasel Advanced Floppy Controller". It can be found at
http://www.rat.de/apd/catweasl.htm basically there are two flavors, one for
a standard IBM PC, and one for the Amiga. Since it's primarily for use
with the Amiga the Amiga version is more advanced, but even the PC version
is most interesting.
I've seen these for sale by some of the Amiga companies, but I didn't
realise the wide variety of formats supported. Now I'm seriously thinking
about getting one for my PC and one for my Amiga!
Zane
Here is a list of the formats the Web page lists.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Catweasel uses standard 3.5inch and 5.25 inch floppy drives and reads
the following formats:
These File-systems are supported:
- CBM 1541 (DOS 2A)
- CBM 1571 (DOS 2A), single-sided & double-sided
- Amiga OFS
- Amiga OFS localised
- Amiga FFS
- Amiga FFS localised
- PC FAT12
- PC FAT16
- PC VFAT12
- PC VFAT16
via disk-image file (and therefore also sector by sector)
- CBM 1541, 5.25" single-sided 170 KB
- CBM 1571, 5.25" single-sided 170 KB
- CBM 1571, 5.25" double-sided 341 KB
- CBM 1581, 3.5" double-sided 800 KB
- Amiga, 3.5", double-sided 880 KB
- Amiga, 3.5", double-sided 1760 KB
- Amiga, 5.25", double-sided 880 KB
- Amiga, 5.25", double-sided 1760 KB
- Atari ST, 3.5", double-sided 720 KB
- Atari ST, 3.5", double-sided 800 KB
- Atari ST, 3.5", double-sided 1440 KB
- IBM PC, 3.5", double-sided 720 KB
- IBM PC, 3.5", double-sided 1440 KB
- IBM PC, 5.25", double-sided 360 KB
- IBM PC, 5.25", double-sided 720 KB
- IBM PC, 5.25", double-sided 800 KB
- IBM PC, 5.25", double-sided 1200 KB
- Catweasel-Extra, 3.5", double-sided 1160 KB
- Catweasel-Extra, 3.5", double-sided 2380 KB
- Apple Macintosh, 3.5", single-sided 400 KB
- Apple Macintosh, 3.5", double-sided 720 KB
- Apple Macintosh, 3.5", double-sided 800 KB
- Apple Macintosh, 3.5", double-sided 1440 KB
- Apple IIe, 5.25", single-sided 140 KB
(sector access only) Sinclair QL
(soon:) Atari 800XL (amiga catweasel can, read-only in the moment)
(not yet) Armstrad 3" (please send us a drive and some floppies)
(not yet) 8 inch Floppy (please send us a drive and floppies)
(not yet) Any other Shugart floppy (please send us a drive and floppies)
Currently only the Amiga version can write (most of them) to disk. The
PC-ISA Catweasel will be able to write in the future... only a software
update
is needed!! It won't be too long now! The software for the PC-ISA Version
can handle 4 controllers (8 Floppy Drives!) and uses no DMA and no
IRQ!
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
> While we're on the subject, I'll throw in my gripe. Why can't we
copy
> old computer manuals? Most of the computers and software are worthless
> with the manuals. HP and the other companies gave up all
> sales/support/service of these things years ago, why should they care if
> we copy manuals that they don't sell any more?
I'll agree there. Manuals' copyrights should expire after the software is
no longer supported.
manney
> Actually, It took a few minutes for works even to start up! We were
editing
> one-page documents. The Leading Edge Model D I have had two experiences
with.
> In one case it was ENIAC-speed (clock? oh, yeah, it's 3:30!) and the
other it
> was 286-speed.
It should _fly_ on a 286. Were you running off the world's slowest HDD?
(Actually, this is probably moot. As I understand you, the compooter isn't
around anymore?) Anyway, mine's pretty quick.
> This works 2.0 is best example of user interface without interrupting
> your train of thought and look as you go...And no playing games of
> guessing buried in GUI menus, waiting for fancy features to load in
> on demand.
...except that it doesn't work _exactly_ as the Win keystrokes do (I don't
remember just what).
> And keep that hands on that keyboard is BIG plus
> especially without fuction keys and mouse.
Yeah, I like that, too. The only time I use a mouse (mostly) is in drawing
programs and #@$#%$ MS Schedule Plus, with which I have to use the mouse to
dial a number. Stupid!
> And another good example
> was News Xpress had same user interface but the next version totally
> lost it, using windows crap. :( That is one another big reason I'm
> looking at linux ongoing basis.
I have MSW 2 on my laptop, as I'm developing a spreadsheet app for a
customer (old church with a non-Windows 386). It's legal to load multiple
versions if you own the program.
manney
At the risk of asking a loaded question...
Thanks to Jim Willing, I've become the proud(?) owner of my first
DECStation 3100. As a RISC box, I'm given to understand it will only run
Ultrix and NetBSD (is there a Linux port for it?)
With that in mind... does anyone happen to have:
* An Ultrix 4.3/RISC or higher CD that they can loan me long enough to
install?
* Suggestions for where to obtain NetBSD on bootable CD-ROM?
* A guide for creating a bootable CD-ROM using NetBSD files downloaded
>from the 'net? (I have a Yamaha CD writer).
Thanks in advance. Thanks again to Jim. ;-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net)
http://www.wizards.net/technoid
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
<From: Zeus334 <Zeus334(a)aol.com>
<Actually, the ELKS webpage mentions that it should be technically possi
<not-too-difficult to port ELKS to PDP-11
Doable but understand that ELKS is Embedded Linux Kernal System, the
embedded part is the idea that some custom apps need and executave and
the embeddable kernel is it. It's not a full linux.
< Heck, every day I wonder why there isn't a Linux PDP-11 port. =-)
Me too.
Allison
In a message dated 97-12-31 17:40:13 EST, you write:
<< > (the XT came with a 10MB, but the XT's lasted so long that I found mine
with
> a 42, another reason that you can't run Linux, it requires 40MB minimum)
and
> So, Linux isn't possible, DOS isn't what you want, so get OS/2 or
Errrr...not to quibble...but the primary restriction on using Linux is the
processor and the RAM not so much the hard drive. You can run a usable
linux system on a 386 with 4mb of RAM and 20mb of drive space. I know
because I ran a small FTP/web server on one...if I powered it up, it'd
still run and do ok...can't handle many simultaneous users and swaps
itself to death if you don't reboot it every morning but that's easy
with crond.
You can't do ALOT of software development mind you...but you can have
full networking utilities...even run Lynx for web stuff...and write
shell scripts and editors and do all kinds of useful things.
Wirehead - Anthony Clifton
>>
Er....one question here. I've tried Linux many times, as well as Minix. From
all of my attempts, I have come to the following conclusion: Linux is not for
doing USEFUL things. The express purpose of Linux is to provide something for
people to recompile. After all, you HAVEN'T seen people doing something on
Linux besides recompiling the kernel and configuring TCP/IP stacks, HAVE YOU?
Most of the tandy printers where serial. Does the DMP have a DIN cable, a
D cable or a Centronics cable. Most had a serial DIN cable and you would
have to make a custom cable that went from a PC"s serial port to the DIN on
the printer. If it's a D connector you should be able to use a straight
through serial cable. Getting it to talk, will be the next interesting
part. Im not sure how they communicated, but you might be able to get at
least text out of it. Let me know how it comes out.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Deschamps <erdesch(a)HEMPSEED.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list COCO <COCO(a)PUCC.BITNET>
Date: Friday, January 02, 1998 4:45 PM
Subject: Radio Shack TRS-80 DMP 100 Printer info needed.
>I was wondering if I can connect my DMP-100 to a PC through the parallel
>port in the back and if I need a special cable ? According to the manual,
>this port was made for TRS-80 only. It doesn't talk about PC in the manual.
>If someone was able to connect it to a PC, please let me know how and which
>driver did you use in Windows?
>
>I was wondering if someone has a spare cable to connect this printer to a
>TRS-80 COCO II or III (using the DIN connector) to giveaway ? If not, which
>part number
>do I need to order from Radio Shack ?
>
>Many thanks!!!
>
Um, I'm not sure what you just said, but:
a) I'm sure this has nothing to do with old computers, unless God stands for
Graphic Output Device :)
b)I think you mean that if one tries to disprove Jesus, they automatically
God's followers, but,once again, I'm not sure
Original Message:
<< > Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie,
> that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die.
Yup, that's what I used to think. I felt sorry for all those poor
misguided fools, Christians. (Didn't occur to me that some of them
were very bright, and very skeptical, and had spent years studying
to seek truth, & only then became Christians.)
And then one day, I was forced to examine my 'beliefs', & was a
little surprised to see that they were assumptions only. Bummer.
So I had to check it out for myself. Sure is a ton of info out
there, some good, some not, but anyway I was finally able to go
1%, & God went the other 99.
So I now believe that anyone who diligently tries to disprove the
teachings of Jesus, or seeks truth or whatever terminology you can
live with -- with any kind of open mind at all (none of us can truly
have an open mind, all we can do is try) -- will become His followers.
Go and do likewise. Don't be chicken.......
Regards,
---mikey >>
At 01:06 AM 1/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>> A LINC!!???!?!?!
>>
>
>Wirehead - Anthony Clifton
>
>PS: Notice I haven't WHERE I'm getting the stuff from. I'll just keep
>THAT little secret until they're safely in my basement. ;-D
>
>
That's even better, that way it will be all packed and ready. Just tell
us where your basement is :-)
At 10:01 AM 1/3/98, you wrote:
> While we're on the subject, I'll throw in my gripe. Why can't we copy
>old computer manuals? Most of the computers and software are worthless
>with the manuals. HP and the other companies gave up all
>sales/support/service of these things years ago, why should they care if
>we copy manuals that they don't sell any more?
They care because they can keep a xerox copy of those manuals around to sell
to us for the unholy figure of $35-$50 if someone ever actually asks them
for one. (Not naming names, but one company that does this rhymes with Sandy.)
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
I am just starting to use this 1985 Z80 computer and wonder if
anyone else has one. It has a built in 3" (not 3.5") drive.
Its the last of the Sinclair computers. It also runs CP/M 3.0.
I'd be interested if anyone knows about a UK company called
Spectre Communications that made a plug in RS232 board and
comunication package for it.
Don Walterman
Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote (after me):
> >Every once in a while I see a flavor of 9000/200 that is built into or
> >around an HP 2382 terminal housing: small, beige skin, brown bezel around
> >9" monochrome CRT.
>
> That sounds more like the 9000 216 aka 9816. Look at
> "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/hp9816.jpg" and see if that looks like
> what you're thinking of.
Yep, that is what I was thinking of.
> This was a box about the size of a 9133 disk
> drive and had 8? expansion slots in the back and no attached monitor or
> keybaord. it said 9000 217 on the front top corner.
Hmm. I'm going to have to pull my old /320 out to look at it, but
that was about the same cross-section, only deeper than the 9133. The
CPU plugs into the bottom slot (and has a special connector), then
there are several DIO slots above it.
> BTW Do you know where I can get a keyboard for a 9816? Do you know if any
> of the other keyboards will work on it? I have a bunch of HP-HIL keyboards
> and they use that same style connector. I'm not sure if it's the same size
> or number of contacts though. I do know that the 9816 keyboard has one
> latch on top and the HIL keybaord has two latchs, one on each side.
The 9816 keyboard in your picture looks something like the
small/standard 2382 keyboard, except the 2382 keyboard has wider
function keys across the top row (typical HP terminal) and doesn't
have the knob.
The 2382 keyboard had a similar modular connector and was not HP-HIL.
I don't think I'd chance it. You might want to ask on
comp.sys.hp.{hardware,misc} and see if anyone there knows.
[Integral PC]
> I have heard it called a 9807, ONCE. It's also shown as a 9807 in the
> '87 catalog. The IPC is one of my favorites! I have two of them and lots
> of software. If you run across any IPCs or accessories or software, I'M
> INTERESTED!
Yep, they are fun boxes. Unfortunately the only spare bit I have for one
right now is a 256KB RAM card.
Hmm, what would I like to find? Technical BASIC. I gather it installs into
the ROM cartridge in the back of the machine. Mine just seems to have the
System V version of HP-UX for the IPC.
-Frank McConnell
At 01:11 AM 1/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>And none of those ganes were ever as good as the "Big-5" series on
>the old TRS-80's with their monochrome 128x48 "graphics". The Linux
>fight is over, it's time for an arcade-game dicksize war. (And I've
>never been good at arcade games).
The best to me back then weren't the arcade games. I mean you have to admit
it's a little hard to conceptualize something in a 128x48 grid. Nope, the
games that did it for me back then were the text parsing adventure games
(infocom, etc.) Although there were some games that never die, and I still
play (Anyone remember Space War?) and of course Combat on the Atari 2600.
I've got a CD full of abandonware games that I have slowly put together from
websites that seem to go down as fast as they come up. There are ancient
games on that CD that I have never played.
<rant>
Which brings up an interesting point: Why do the self appointed software
cops go after software archives of "abandonware" that most of today's
computers usually run too fast anyway? Do these ancient games really hurt
todays software market? Anything 10 years old or older should be
freeware/public domain as far as games are concerned. They don't increase
productivity, and the collectors of these old games aren't doing any harm
are they?
</rant>
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
I don't remember who asked for the part number for the HP 85 printer drive
belt but I finally dug out my service manual and found the numbers. There
are two belts in the printer. One drives the carriage and is PN 1500-0529.
The other drives the paper advance and is PN 1500-0572. If one is bad you
should go ahead and replace both. During the week you can call HP's
automated ordering line at 1-800-227-8164 and order them if they're still
available. Let me know if these are still available and what they cost. If
you can't get them, let me know and I'll open up one of my 85s and measure
the belts and to to match them up with something from Small Parts Inc or
one of the other companies.
Joe
At 02:48 PM 1/2/98 -0600, you wrote:
>get all those pretty colors... (Thank goodness *somebody*'s coloring all
>those boring old black and white movies! 8^)
They used to do that with older games that were originally in 4-color CGA,
going back and redoing them in VGA 256 color. Just a few though. Space Quest
springs to mind...
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
pvhp(a)forte.com (Peter Prymmer) wrote:
> I am brimming with curiosity about the MPE OS: What is it like?
ObAdvocacy: <BIFF> K00L3R THAN L1NUX!!!! </BIFF>
It's stable like a rock, and doesn't need a lot of maintenance. You
want a system that can stay up for a year? Choose MPE.
> Having tried to glean some info from the HP web site I can only
> surmise that the target market is mid to large businesses and
> might be comparable to IBM AS/400 or Mainframe type computing
> environments. Am I right?
Yep, pretty much. Historically, 3000s have been aimed at
transaction-processing environments. There have been efforts to push
3000s into office automation roles but they really didn't stick, both
because PCs got cheap and because 3000s (particularly the classics)
really didn't do interactive character terminal I/O very well.
> If that is the case I am curious: does MPE run with ASCII or EBCDIC
> character sets?
ASCII. But there's some presumption (in many applications, including
some of the configuration tools) that you will be using an HP terminal
that supports block mode, which (approximately) lets the application
use the terminal's memory as a buffer for a form, so that the user
can do his editing in the terminal then transmit the completed form
to the 3000 in a fast block transfer.
> Does MPE support a UNIX like environment - even as an option?
If you're running MPE/iX, yes. :RUN SH.HPBIN.SYS and you will get a $
prompt.
> What is the shell like?
The MPE command interpreter...well, I can't speak for the MPE/iX CI.
I haven't used it enough.
The classic MPE CI is not really like a Unix shell -- there are a
bunch of internal commands that look like they do their own filename
globbing depending on whether they handle filesets or not, there
aren't really pipes (instead there are "message files" which are
sort of record-structured FIFOs with disc-file backing store).
> What is the C compiler like?
For MPE/iX, it's available and seems to be a somewhat modern C compiler
for PA-RISC 1.0. GCC has also been ported to MPE/iX.
At Wollongong, we used a third-party C compiler that sometimes made me
wish SPL supported structure/record declarations. It was a slow compiler,
and it had a really conservative approach to addressing modes...though
I managed to find ways around some of its conservatism.
> Editors?
Well, you get EDIT/3000, which is a line-oriented editor that is
suitable for use on all manner of terminals, even the printing ones.
I believe someone ported MicroEMACS to MPE/iX a while back, and you
definitely get vi with it. There are also several third-party
editors, some in the Interex contributed software library (e.g. QUAD,
which includes a pseudo-screen editing mode) and some commercial
(e.g. Robelle's QEDIT, which lots of 3000 folks swear by).
> How long has it been on the market?
25 years.
-Frank McConnell
At 07:13 PM 1/2/98, you wrote:
> Did you see the ad on there for the KayPro 4 on there for $10,000 !
>Honest! I'm not making this up! Gee, my Altair must be worth millions!
>I wish!
Some yahoo on www.haggle.com had an Apple Lisa listed for $15,000.00. People
collect these old machines, but not for the money, for the nostalgia mostly.
At least that's how it is in my case, although I do use some of my machines
on a daily basis. (Mostly for playing my collection of ancient games that
just seem to run like greased electrons on my Cyrix 200 system. :)
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu, fmc(a)reanimators.org
Subj: Re: Frank Knows his stuff was Re: What is this HP 9000/220?
Frank McConnell wrote:
>I've been doing stuff with HPs for over 20 years now (mostly with
>3000s and HP PCs), and some of it stuck. But I've never worked with
>Series 200s so don't know that much about them, just what I've picked
>up here and there. And I still think I have a lot to learn.
>
>Why do I know about Series 500s? In 1989 I took a job at a little
>company called The Wollongong Group, supporting a product for the HP
>3000 called WIN/TCP for MPE/V. Little did I know, they also had a
>product for the HP 9000 Series 500s called, straightforwardly enough,
>WIN/TCP for HP 9000 Series 500. They expected me to support that too
>-- after all it's all HP stuff, it's all weird/how different can it
>be? (yep, that's how they thought) -- so I did.
<snip>
>-Frank McConnell "I want my MPE" (w/apologies to Dire Straits)
> <fmc(a)reanimators.org>
I am brimming with curiosity about the MPE OS: What is it like?
Having tried to glean some info from the HP web site I can only
surmise that the target market is mid to large businesses and
might be comparable to IBM AS/400 or Mainframe type computing
environments. Am I right? If that is the case I am curious: does
MPE run with ASCII or EBCDIC character sets? Does MPE support a
UNIX like environment - even as an option? What is the shell like?
What is the C compiler like? Editors? In short - what is MPE like?
How long has it been on the market?
Sorry, but I have never personally known anyone/anyplace that runs
MPE, until I came across a UC campus with a web site that several
MPE freeware packages available. However, from that (as well as
any possible newsgroups) it is difficult to determine what the OS
is like for the user/admin/programmer and I would appreciate some
info.
Thanks very much to anyone who can respond.
Peter Prymmer
> I mentioned a while ago that I saw a copy of Apple II visicalc. Well, I
> finally got it. It has all the stuff, and is a 1981 copy. I was wondering
if
> there was a PC version or port for DOS?
Sure was. -- I've got one (no manuals, tho'). I messed with it a
little...works sorta like early Lotus.
IIRC, there was one for the PCjr, too.
manney(a)nwohio.com
In a message dated 98-01-02 17:36:09 EST, you write:
<< Why do I know about Series 500s? In 1989 I took a job at a little
company called The Wollongong Group, supporting a product for the HP
3000 called WIN/TCP for MPE/V. Little did I know, they also had a
product for the HP 9000 Series 500s called, straightforwardly enough,
WIN/TCP for HP 9000 Series 500. They expected me to support that too
-- after all it's all HP stuff, it's all weird/how different can it
be? (yep, that's how they thought) -- so I did.
>>
Oh cool. from 89-92, I managed 2 500's, a 540 and a 560. I don't remember
the exact differences between the two. but, they were great. we had the
wollongong software on them.
my favorite was the 400 Mb had disk that looked and sounded like a dishwasher.
Kelly
At 03:32 PM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Here is one that I got today from someone offering "Rare Apple Computers
and Hardware". Seems that the prices are about as far disconnected from
reality as his web page. It's there, but has no content other than a splash
screen.
>Apple Macintosh 512K - 200.00
I feel so stupid... I sold a Mac 512ke for $40 about 3 months ago. Man, I
better go update my prices... I'm sitting on a fortune!!!!
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
Two quick questions:
1. What is a disk substitution for a DEC RX-50 diskette?
2. How can you get a DECmate terminal working as a regular "dumb"
terminal in stead of a word processor?
TIA!
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
In a message dated 98-01-02 20:03:36 EST, you write:
<<
> Right. And if you ran MS Works 2.0 for DOS on an XT, which was
unfortunately
> what had to be done for a while with me, it would show characters maybe a
> second after they are type, especially on a Leading Edge Model D, which
was
> first priority to replace among the 8 XTs that were slowly being phased
out.
I've used MSW on XT's (even a PC), and I don't remember its being all that
slow. What were you doing? Editing War & Peace?
> MS-DOS edit or Windows Write works very much faster. (Don't get me wrong
here,
> I love the Leading Edge Model D, it's just so damn slow)
I think they're pretty quick (faster than the IBM XT, anyway!)
>>
Actually, It took a few minutes for works even to start up! We were editing
one-page documents. The Leading Edge Model D I have had two experiences with.
In one case it was ENIAC-speed (clock? oh, yeah, it's 3:30!) and the other it
was 286-speed.
Another thing: I saw a copy of Lotus 123 for the Rainbow 100. Anyone want
that?
In a message dated 98-01-02 19:06:16 EST, you write:
<< Actually I think VisiCalc WAS the early version of Lotus 123. I don't
remember all the names but VisiCalc was originally developed by some guy as
a school project. One of the other students liked it and bought the rights
to it for something like $100 and formed Lotus Developement Corp (I think
that's the right name). It was first marketed as VisiCalc and was
virtually unchanged from the original project software except for being
ported to different systems. Later the name was changed to Lotus 123 and
the product was further developed. Another case of the inventor ending up
sweeping floors and a promoter becoming rich with someone else's idea.
(Tesla >> George Westinghouse) (Henry >> Oliver Winchester) etc etc. >>
Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote:
> Frank knows his HPs! I know the 200 series pretty well but he's got all
> of them down pat.
I've been doing stuff with HPs for over 20 years now (mostly with
3000s and HP PCs), and some of it stuck. But I've never worked with
Series 200s so don't know that much about them, just what I've picked
up here and there. And I still think I have a lot to learn.
Why do I know about Series 500s? In 1989 I took a job at a little
company called The Wollongong Group, supporting a product for the HP
3000 called WIN/TCP for MPE/V. Little did I know, they also had a
product for the HP 9000 Series 500s called, straightforwardly enough,
WIN/TCP for HP 9000 Series 500. They expected me to support that too
-- after all it's all HP stuff, it's all weird/how different can it
be? (yep, that's how they thought) -- so I did.
Somewhere along the way I decided I wanted a windowing environment
that could handle HP terminal emulation on my desk, and after fooling
around a bit with PCs I saw some guy up in Berkeley trying to be rid
of a 9000 Series 320. So I bought it, and it was good. That sat
there 'til early 1994 when I got retreaded into a Windows device
driver kind of guy. Now I guess it's part of my collection -- it sits
in the storage closet.
> FWIW the 9000 Vectra series computers (or some of them anyway) used
> 80286 CPUs and were MS-DOS compatable.
9000 Vectra? My recollection of the Vectra family is that it's all
IBM-compatibles (well, mostly, I remember the earliest Vectras and
they were about 99% if you allowed for the HP-isms that snuck in, like
the HP-HIL interface for the keyboard and mouse, the HP keyboard with
the f1-f8 keys across the top, and the funky HP Multimode MDA/CGA
display adapter) and never was a part of the 9000 family.
Though I think I remember something about a coprocessor card (set?) you
could stick in ISA slot(s) to run Rocky Mountain BASIC. Of course HP
would have sold that in/for Vectra boxes.
> NOW My turn. Does anyone know exactly what a 9000 217 model is? I found
> one but I've neverheard of it before and it's not in any of my catalogs.
Every once in a while I see a flavor of 9000/200 that is built into or
around an HP 2382 terminal housing: small, beige skin, brown bezel around
9" monochrome CRT. I think some of the ones I've seen were hooked up
to 91[23]x disk drives, and can't remember whether the processor was in
a similarly-sized box or in the terminal. Could that be it?
I think the HP Integral PC was also the HP 9000/207 though I don't know
if it was ever sold under that name.
-Frank McConnell "I want my MPE" (w/apologies to Dire Straits)
<fmc(a)reanimators.org>
<> > second after they are type, especially on a Leading Edge Model D, w
I have a Leading Edge model D here in active use. Nice machine and
locked (no turbo) to 4.77mhz. Mine has had a hard disk controller
added and a souped up floppy controller to do 1.44 3.5". That and a V20
it's stock and runs well.
Save fpr I'm using it for other things I've had Win3.0 running on it
and it's not that bad considering.
Currently it has Wordperfect works on it and it's very useful for text
work.
Allison
At 11:38 PM 12/31/97, you wrote:
>You should have read the ad. It says "WANTED TO BUY AN IMSAI COMPUTER WITH
>OR WITH OUT MANUALS. ALSO ALTAIRS, PROLOG, KIMS, SBC-80-10 BY INTEL YEARS
>1975-1982 DECS, JUPER-II BY WAVE MATE. I WILL PAY UP TO 200+ FOR CSOME
I should have actually read the ad. I'm *really* sorry to have wasted
everone's time with this.
>Classifieds2000 is a waste of time IMO.
I'm beginning to think so too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
I think that MAI produced an accounting system "solution" for businesses
consisting of a multi-user computer system and proprietary accounting
software.
I remember running into them occasionally during field audits of some of
our clients.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
In a message dated 98-01-02 16:38:35 EST, you write:
<< >When I first ran winders it was on a 386/16 with 4mb of ram
> it seemed fast enough to do a lot of useful work.
>
>
> Allison
Well, yeah. But, that was when a Winders program came on a couple of
floppies, before the code -- and graphics -- bloat. A program, then, did
less and had less junk (toolbars and suchlike).
Still, some things _have_ improved in speed. My Corel Draw 3 on my laptop
handles text in a rather leisurely fashion, wheras Corel Draw 7 is quite
snappy.
manney(a)nwohio.com >>
Right. And if you ran MS Works 2.0 for DOS on an XT, which was unfortunately
what had to be done for a while with me, it would show characters maybe a
second after they are type, especially on a Leading Edge Model D, which was
first priority to replace among the 8 XTs that were slowly being phased out.
MS-DOS edit or Windows Write works very much faster. (Don't get me wrong here,
I love the Leading Edge Model D, it's just so damn slow)
> True story.
>
> When my sone was about 5, he had very interesting taste in TV shows. It
> went something like this:
>
> - If it is animated, watch it.
We all love Windows 95 :)
> - If it is live-action in color, change the channel.
We all love Windows 95 :)
> - If it is live-action in B&W, watch it for a while to see if it's funny.
Not that strange. Remember that Charlie Chaplin, The Three Stooges, and MS-DOS
1.0 are the three all-time comedy classics!
>
> Roger Ivie
> ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
> (Thank goodness *somebody*'s coloring all
> those boring old black and white movies! 8^)
True story.
When my sone was about 5, he had very interesting taste in TV shows. It
went something like this:
- If it is animated, watch it.
- If it is live-action in color, change the channel.
- If it is live-action in B&W, watch it for a while to see if it's funny.
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
At 07:40 PM 1/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Yeah. EGA is pretty much the same as standard VGA (where windows is
>concerned). The colors (to me) look alot richer and more vibrant on an EGA.
>Maybe they just ditched the CGA/Herc drivers then.
3.1 (and 3.11?) had support for Hercules Mono. Which, iirc, wasn't such a
bad standard at 720xsomething (better than std VGA?) Of course, you didn't
get all those pretty colors... (Thank goodness *somebody*'s coloring all
those boring old black and white movies! 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 12:21 PM 1/1/98 -0800, you wrote:
>If you're talking about the GEM I think you're talking about. Wasn't it
>licensed from Digital Research? GEM is also the basis for the 16 & 32-bit
>Atari's. I just can't remember at this point if the PC version ran on DOS,
>or if it required CP/M to run.
GEM is DR's product, and it did (does) run on the Atari ST & Falcon. Ran on
the PC over DOS, iirc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
> Right. And if you ran MS Works 2.0 for DOS on an XT, which was
unfortunately
> what had to be done for a while with me, it would show characters maybe a
> second after they are type, especially on a Leading Edge Model D, which
was
> first priority to replace among the 8 XTs that were slowly being phased
out.
I've used MSW on XT's (even a PC), and I don't remember its being all that
slow. What were you doing? Editing War & Peace?
> MS-DOS edit or Windows Write works very much faster. (Don't get me wrong
here,
> I love the Leading Edge Model D, it's just so damn slow)
I think they're pretty quick (faster than the IBM XT, anyway!)
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> HP 9000's are PA-RISC based UNIX workstations running HP-UX.
Um, no. Well, if you buy a new one you will get a PA-RISC CPU but
that is not historically true. You need to look at the series number
to figure out what the CPU is:
500 - FOCUS (HP-proprietary 32-bit stack machine)
200 - 680[01]0
300 - 680[1234]0 (I think the 310 was the only 68010-based series 300)
800 - PA-RISC
400 - 68040
700 - PA-RISC
I think these days there is also a Series 600 that is PA-RISC and
a "T500" that is PA-RISC.
Some of these also have HP 9xxx numbers besides the "9000 Series xxx"
designation. If you go back and look at how they were originally
sold, the "HP 9000" was briefly just the FOCUS-based systems, which
eventually became the HP 9000 Series 520, 530, 540, and 550, and I
think I have seen references to the 9000 Series 520 as the "HP 9020".
The HP 9000 Series 226 and 236 were originally sold as the HP 9826 and
HP 9836; I believe there was some sort of upgrade involved for the
9836 that made it capable of running HP-UX (in addition to the
original BASIC, Pascal, and HPL).
-Frank McConnell
>When I first ran winders it was on a 386/16 with 4mb of ram
> it seemed fast enough to do a lot of useful work.
>
>
> Allison
Well, yeah. But, that was when a Winders program came on a couple of
floppies, before the code -- and graphics -- bloat. A program, then, did
less and had less junk (toolbars and suchlike).
Still, some things _have_ improved in speed. My Corel Draw 3 on my laptop
handles text in a rather leisurely fashion, wheras Corel Draw 7 is quite
snappy.
manney(a)nwohio.com
I dug up a few more 1984 catalogs, and would like to find out about some stuff
in them (I think I have a destination for the catalogs themselves, so don't
ask me about buying them)
One is a Misco 1985 catalog, which is just general office stuff. Not much in
that.
The other is an Advanced Computer Products (19)84/85. This one has some
computers that I have never seen before. If anyone has a clue about them...
*A $500 NEC PC-8200, a very small 16K thing
*A $1400 Sanyo MBC 1150 Z-80 based thing
*An Epson PX-8 portable for $995
*A macintosh ad saying that it is a 32-bit computer. What gives?
*A Sanyo 25" color monitor for $719
*$45 parallel cables
*Rockwell International AIM65, looks more like a huge desktop calculator
Well, I think that I will learn it and use it a bit first. I will say when I
am done with the tutorial :) How much would people pay for it, anyway? It is
in almost perfect condition, with the reference card, and all that.
In a message dated 98-01-02 13:07:22 EST, you write:
<< Are you still interested in selling Visicalc for the Apple II and the other
stuff? I'm interested.
Sincerely,
Tom
>I mentioned a while ago that I saw a copy of Apple II visicalc. Well, I
>finally got it. It has all the stuff, and is a 1981 copy. I was wondering if
>there was a PC version or port for DOS?
>>
I have finally gone through most of this...
VAX/VMS manuals (Boy, do I need those!)
A lot of PDP-11 diagnostics on punched paper tape (I have a mylar pt reader,
will that do for reading these?)
XXDP on 9-track tape. A DOS/BATCH distrib tape and some manuals.
Loads of RSTS/E manuals and sales stuff. DEC catalogs.
Copies of RSTS PROFESSIONAL magazine. (!)
Some very detailed PDP-8 manuals (As in they include schematics)
The PDP-8 User's Guide
User's Guide to the DECsystem-10. The PDP-10 refrence manual.
The latter has some wonderful panel pictures, I'll scan those...
Some other 10 miscellaneous.
Manuals and a bootdisk for my Rainbow! Now all I need's they keyboard an monitor...
According to the disk it's CP/M 8.0
A few scratch magtapes and RX02. Some TK50 cartridges.
A card reader/punch for Unibus.
More as I go through it...
Oh yea! There's a VAX/VMS magtape distribution in here, version 4.6
-------
Are you still interested in selling Visicalc for the Apple II and the other
stuff? I'm interested.
Sincerely,
Tom
>I mentioned a while ago that I saw a copy of Apple II visicalc. Well, I
>finally got it. It has all the stuff, and is a 1981 copy. I was wondering if
>there was a PC version or port for DOS?
I'm sure it was ported to many platforms. I have a copy (1982) made for the
Atari 800XL. Even still has the original price sticker on the box, $179.95
(wow).
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Cgregory <Cgregory>
Date: Friday, January 02, 1998 1:35 PM
Subject: Visicalc
>
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>I mentioned a while ago that I saw a copy of Apple II visicalc. Well, I
>finally got it. It has all the stuff, and is a 1981 copy. I was wondering
if
>there was a PC version or port for DOS?
>
I mentioned a while ago that I saw a copy of Apple II visicalc. Well, I
finally got it. It has all the stuff, and is a 1981 copy. I was wondering if
there was a PC version or port for DOS?
I have 3 of these units now, I had no idea they were so common. But I am
interested in purchaseing all your software/carts.
-----Original Message-----
From: SouthPork <SouthPork(a)aol.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, January 02, 1998 9:20 AM
Subject: PC Jr. owner
>I have two PC Jr. that I no longer use, but refuse to just throw away.
Also, I
>have 15+ orig software probrams for the jr. Can you put me in contact with
>others who might want some for the stuff. I collect Macintohs Classic's and
>would like to trade. If you want I can sent a list of the software and
>equipment I have.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tom
>-- SouthPork(a)aol.com
>
On 1998-01-02 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to scottk5(a)ibm.net
>Kirk,
>I have one sitting in my dining room! It's one of the HP 9000 200
>series computers (9826 aka 9000 216, 9836 aka 9000 236, 9000/220,
>etc).
(Much really helpful information snipped here...)
Video: Yeap, typical HP, it uses a
>non-standard video output. I doubt you'll find a monitor that will
>work on it except the proper HP one. If you send me the part
>number from the video card I'll tell you which monitors will work
>with it.
There are two video output cards; a 98204A, marked composite video; and
a 98627A, marked color output. The only monitor I have with RGB and sync
BNC ports is a 19" Taxan 980, wonder if that will work?
More about HP-IB: There sould be a connector for an
>external HP-IB bus on the back. It will probably be on the same
>card as the keyboard connection. It will look like a Centronics
>connector (the same type as a parallel printer uses) except it will
>only use 24 pins.
Yes, it's there, but is the keyboard connector the RG-45 looking one? There
is also another BNC connector on the same card.
>If you decide to get rid of it, I'd like to have it.
Thanks a lot for the info, and if I start to think I'm in way over my
head with this thing I'll give you first dibs on it. Now I'm wondering
what my friend Rick did with the rest of it?!?!?!?
Thanks again,
Kirk Scott
scottk5(a)ibm.net
Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive
I have two PC Jr. that I no longer use, but refuse to just throw away. Also, I
have 15+ orig software probrams for the jr. Can you put me in contact with
others who might want some for the stuff. I collect Macintohs Classic's and
would like to trade. If you want I can sent a list of the software and
equipment I have.
Thanks,
Tom
-- SouthPork(a)aol.com
<> I haven't personally tried it, but a Japanese company had some XT clo
<> laptops (OK, luggables) which ran Windows 3.x (Maybe it was 3.0, or
<> 3.1, there's not to awful much of a difference in my mind).
3.0 still had support for 808x(xt class) machines. I know as it have
3.0.
3.1 besides enhancements and structureal improvements dropped support
for 8086 though it runs on 286 and above.
<
<Any Windows 3.x is going to be *very* slow on an XT. There is (IMHO)
<tremendous difference between 3.0 and 3.1 not just the maintenance
3.1 would be slow as it will not start. ;-) 3.0 however is a bit slow
anything like a fast disk or turboXT does help greatly. I'm have 3.0
running on a turboXT with a V20 and a IDE(with adaptor) disk and it's
quite useable and the speed difference from a st251 to a 40meg 3.5" IDE
drive is substantial especially when windows has to swap.
<CGA, Hercules or MDA, I can't recall off the top of my head if it even
<supported EGA but I think it did.
3.0 supports all, so does 3.1.
I happen to run 3.1 on the 486dx/50 and 3.0 on the V20(8088) 10mhz
turboXT clone. They are similar in look and feel and within memory
limitations runs the same set of apps. Some however, cannot run on the
V20 as there isn't enough memory or the code requires 286/386 minimum.
Allison
Read http://www.netaction.org/articles/freesoft.html for a discussion of
the importance of free software such as Linux to the infrastructure of the
net.
Free software and open standards drive creativity and foster a
collaborative approach that benefits all.
The fastest way to fix bugs in new software is to release the source code
to the community. Hmmm, funny MS hasn't done this with Win 95 or NT...
Lots of folks got their first computing experience in the PC era, and being
victims of media and advertising hype decry free software as substandard.
The opposite is true. When substandard software has all the hype and the
gigabucks behind it, it unfortunately develops a market force that is all
but impossible to stop. Where's Beta rather than VHS these days anyway?
Kevin
---
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
A friend of mine dumped a small, meant-to-be-rack-mounted box that is
marked as a Hewlett Packard 9000 220, (model 9920-A). It has several cards
inside including a composite video car, a color output card, and one
meant for the keyboard. I tried to find out something about it but haven't
gotten very far, there were a few references to the auxiliary cards in
articles posted on comp.sys.hp.hardware. It appears to be a 286 workstation
maybe, and will boot, but I can't make out the prompts, since it won't sync
on the only composite monitor I have with BNC input.
Can anyone shed some light on this thing and what cann be done with it?
Kirk Scott
scottk5(a)ibm.net
Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive
>Uh, PC's can do _anything_? Kewl. Set up an IBM PC with 64K RAM, 1 35-track
>SSDD Floppy drive, run a multi-user, multi-tasking operating system on it,
>and still have enough RAM/Floppy room left over to actually do something
>*useful*. Lemme know when it's done. My CoCo in the next room is set up to
>do just that.
I'm calling anything that's smaller than a mini a PC.
>Oh, and BTW: I can do *everything* you listed above on my Atari 1040STf...
>albeit not as quickly as my Cyrix box (but there *is* a reason why I
>overclocked it!! ;-) but anything possible on today's Pentium machines can
>be done right now by machines at least 10 years old... sometimes better!
Yep. By the way, what's the best way to overclock a Cyrix?
>>No, it won't. But that doesn't mean that it can't get easy. (Or just not
>>hard) Linux will be here for awhile, and so we've got to live withit.
>
>Linux isn't hard. My first install with _no_ Linux experience took just
>over an hour to install... and when I was done, (with only the initial
>kernal boot) it was useful. My latest Win95 install took me almost 6 hours
>to get it working somewhat -- ButtPlug-n-play chose the wrong Ethernet
>cards -- but after 3 reboots the wrong drivers (I tried putting in the
>right drivers -- NT doesn't even mind being helped along, but 95 whacked
>the right ones and reinstalled the wrong ones) started working marginally.
>Two more reboots to get the SCSI card working with the scanner, A reboot to
>get the screen at the correct resolution / color depth, and 2 more reboots
>after software installs that required it.
You made a couple mistakes... there arn't MS salesmen here, so don't say
PLUG AND PLAY, it's Plug & Pray. What version of Linux is that?
>Granted, Linux isn't an ooey-gooey with pretty pictures, and as such one
>might require 1/2 a brain to use it -- my personal opinion -- good. Keep
>all the idio-er-users with a brainless box...
Yes, but ease of use is important to some.
><Tangent>
>"Uh, my daughter just downloaded our entire computer onto a disk. How do I
>get it back and boot it?"
Duh.....
>Not to sound like a shit-fer-brains, but my holiday is better spent talking
>to you guys & gals than spending 6 hours on the phone talking to a lady who
>specifically told me "I don't want to learn anything about my new computer
>-- I just want to get on the Internet." -- My boss specifically forbade me
>to answer those types of calls anyway ('cause I usually like to be helpful
>to newbies) and I don't get my regular work done.
Tell 'em what I do: (The other day, I e-mailed a friend who was new to the
'Net, then they replied via e-mail and asked what my e-mail address was.)
Then refer them to the convinetly located Online Help, made by someone who
had a little to much of whatever they had an overstock of at the bar and now
have a shortage of, then designed the manual, found on all MS-OSes.
>Yep, Win95 is the NOS for her! (NOS stands for Non-Operating System). But I
>digress...
Well, it would help if she actually thought. I mean, don't you guies
include a manual, like my ISP, that specifically tells you WHERE TO CLICK
AND WHEN? ;-)
></Tangent>
>
>Sorry for the rambling, Have yourselves a joyous and prosperous '98, and
>keep those geezers computing!!!! :-)
We will.... and don't foget, that means that there are less than 365 days
for Windows 98 to be late again. ;-) BTW, does anyone have a spare 14.4
modem? (For x86, preferably NOT a Winmodem)
Tim D. Hotze
I have acquired a system marked "MAI Basic Four Information System", Model 4105, Tustin California. It's not working.
CPU is a Z80 and it has 2 5 1/4" floppy drives. It's sort of sleek looking and the keyboard clips to the front, but there's no way it could be described a luggable. There are no handles and its much heavier than an Osborne 1 or Compaq.
Does anyone have any background on this?
A side note:
Anyone looking for info/downloads of different OS'es might
want to take a look at: http://www.cs.arizona.edu/people/bridges/oses.html
They have a rather exhaustive list of some real odd-balls...
Les
<FWIW, I've got a DEC PDT-11 (Haven't touched it in years, due to space
PDT11/110 or 130 or 150?
My PDT-11/130 has 32kw ram and runs basic just fine. the 16kw one will
as well if I run rt-11SJ monitor.
Allison
<The way I remember it is this way:
I didn't have to remember I just reach over and pushed the mouse around
on both boxen.
FYI the diskset(1.44mb media) I have for 3.1 was had in early 1992 and
later sets had different mixes of drivers. the number of drivers
depended on time and diskset(type of media).
Same was true for 3.0 disks as mine were 720k 3.5" (more room that the
360k floppy set.)
<that, or I had some screwed up install disks). I figure they were thin
<"Who'd want to install 3.1/3.11 on something so slow???"
Someone that needs compatability to some level. Slow is a relitive
thing. When I first ran winders it was on a 386/16 with 4mb of ram
it seemed fast enough to do a lot of useful work.
Allison
Yeah. EGA is pretty much the same as standard VGA (where windows is
concerned). The colors (to me) look alot richer and more vibrant on an EGA.
Maybe they just ditched the CGA/Herc drivers then.
At 06:40 PM 1/1/98 EST, you wrote:
>actually, the drivers are present for ega on 3.1 version. just run
>\windows\setup and change to ega. i tried it just for kicks one time, and
>didnt notice much difference except for the splash screen. dialog boxes and
>program manager looked almost identical.
>
>david
>
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
[[[ snip ]]]
> The XT came with a 4.77MHz 8088, but it's not
> hard to find a 8MHz version.
OK so far...
[[[ snip ]]]
> you can run Windows, up to 3.1. You can also run OS/2 (earlier
> versions) and many of the smaller OSes made during the early 80's.
I'll have to reserve judgement on Win 3.1 as I've never tried to run it on
an 8088 (I thought Microsoft dropped support for the mode required by the
8088 in Win3.1, though), but OS/2 is right out. It's entire reason for
being is to run on the 286, so an XT won't cut it.
In addition to Xenix, CP/M-86, Minix, and a variety of Forths, there are
other Unix clones (Venix, for exmaple), the UCSD P-system, and MP/M-86 (if you
can find it!). I don't know offhand whether Concurrent CP/M-86 requires a
286, but I do not believe it does.
> > yes, minix would work, but i dont think it's free.
The lastest version of Minix _is_ free for personal use.
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
Happy New Year to All
Yesterday I picked up a few more item including this short list, a Sanyo
model DM8012CX monitor that works; a LaserWriter II $15; two Kodak Diconix
150 Plus printers for free; LattisNet Model 102 power module and four model
505 transceivers for $15; Mac IIsi shell for free; and few other items.
Messages to the those of you that asked about a few things, yes the HP is a
model 9114; I will be trading or selling some of the travelmates; I will be
getting the Mac KB for the person that asked on Friday I hope. That's it
for now Keep Computing. John
In a message dated 98-01-01 18:07:53 EST, you write:
<< CGA, EGA, and Herc are supported by 3.0 and below, but if you want to run
them on 3.1/3.11, you need to download the drivers from microsoft. (Either
that, or I had some screwed up install disks). I figure they were think
"Who'd want to install 3.1/3.11 on something so slow???"
>>
actually, the drivers are present for ega on 3.1 version. just run
\windows\setup and change to ega. i tried it just for kicks one time, and
didnt notice much difference except for the splash screen. dialog boxes and
program manager looked almost identical.
david
groberts(a)mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) wrote:
> i have recently been given an old Zenith laptop model ZFL-181-92. batteries
> discharged or dead. no power supply. i would like information if anyone
> can help me on what type of power supply to use. the label on the bottom
> of the systems says: DC 12 V, Plug-in power supply Model 150-272.
Sorry, I don't know the power-supply polarity, but maybe this will give
you another thing to look for.
I am thinking that HP badge-engineered this model of Zenith as the
Vectra Portable CS. The place I worked at the time bought two or
three of them to replace a couple of HP 110s that were three or four
years old and becoming a data-interchange hassle (different stiffy
format, had to get the 9114A and hook it up, Lotus 1A on the 110
vs. 2.x on the desktops (HP Vectra and Vectra ES), those sorts of
things). My admittedly dim memories of those fit with the pop-up dual
720KB stiffy drive, and I think there was also a bar graph LCD "fuel
gauge" to tell you how much oomph was left in the battery.
As I recall it was very IBM-compatible, but then just about anything
was compared to the 110s.
-Frank McConnell
At 02:39 PM 1/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
><CGA, Hercules or MDA, I can't recall off the top of my head if it even
><supported EGA but I think it did.
>
>3.0 supports all, so does 3.1.
The way I remember it is this way:
CGA, EGA, and Herc are supported by 3.0 and below, but if you want to run
them on 3.1/3.11, you need to download the drivers from microsoft. (Either
that, or I had some screwed up install disks). I figure they were think
"Who'd want to install 3.1/3.11 on something so slow???"
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
>I'll have to reserve judgement on Win 3.1 as I've never tried to run it on
>an 8088 (I thought Microsoft dropped support for the mode required by the
>8088 in Win3.1, though), but OS/2 is right out. It's entire reason for
>being is to run on the 286, so an XT won't cut it.
I haven't personally tried it, but a Japanese company had some XT clone
laptops (OK, luggables) which ran Windows 3.x (Maybe it was 3.0, or 3.1,
there's not to awful much of a difference in my mind).
>In addition to Xenix, CP/M-86, Minix, and a variety of Forths, there are
>other Unix clones (Venix, for exmaple), the UCSD P-system, and MP/M-86 (if
you
>can find it!). I don't know offhand whether Concurrent CP/M-86 requires a
>286, but I do not believe it does.
Yes, but someone somehow (maybe they just upgraded the motherboard) used
OS/2 on their XT. (Well, it had an XT case)
Want to see how much people can laugh without getting knocked out/dying?
Call IBM tech support on it.
Tim D. Hotze
>First, I don't consider word processing to be a meaningful test of an
>OS'susefulness. Word processing is probably the most wasteful >way ever
invented to use personal computers. Sure it's easy but I >can word process
just as quickly and easily on my old Mac SE as I >can on a new 95 box.
It IS NOT a test of usefulness, but still, it's one of the reasons that has
made PC computing popular. Besides, there ARE WORD PROCESSORS AVAIBLE FOR
LINUX! Just because billg won't make a word processor for a x86 OS that
isn't his doesn't mean that the OS isn't useful.
>Second, there are applications...I believe WordPerfect is available for
>Linux as well as many other WSIWYG programs. I don't use them on my
>Linux box because I prefer to have it do useful things.
Yep. Visit their site, and you can download a trial. Also, you can
download a beta for the Java version.
>Third, I think you need to pick up a copy of Linux Journal as it has
>listings for commercial software etc.
Where can I get one of those?
>Fourth, let's not underestimate the value of what you call 'TCP/IP Stack'
>operations. We're not talking about a replacement for Trumpet Winsock
>here...we're talking about being able to do EVERYTHING that thousands of
>dollars worth of commercial software can do, do it better and
>FASTER...for FREE. The financial value of that alone is incalculable
>when you realize how much of the Internet simply would not have been
>implemented had it not been for Linux (and other free unix-based OSs).
It IS an advanced system. That's what happens when you get 500 expert
programmers together working cooperatively as their hobby.
>> That was the end of my last try at Linux, a few months ago. I have a
Slackware
>> Linux CD with Kernels up to 1.3.12. I now have T-1 access, though, so if
you
>> can suggest a system which COULD BE A VIABLE REPLACEMENT FOR MacOS OR
WINDOWS,
Try OS/2 Warp. But there arn't too many commercial apps. I guess that it's
most useful to preven hacking, as no one owns a copy. ;-)
>Linux isn't a replacement for MacOS or Windows...it goes FAR BEYOND the
>capabilities of either. Certainly you can use it for word processing,
>using the WordPerfect etc mentioned above, but Linux boxes are serious
>business machines that can represent thousands of dollars in revenues to
>a business that uses it.
Exactly. PC's also became popular because they could do ANYTHING. But my
uses and yours probably are different. I use word processing, (I can type
faster than I handwrite), but I also use e-mail, the 'Net, my browser, 3D
software, and many other things.
>It's like saying a Cray could never be useful because you can't run
Microsoft Word on >it. I don't think it's reasonable to make Word the
be-all end-all basis for judging a >machine.
Exactly. It's one example of a word processor. It's not a standard, just
another popular app. If you're going to measue word processing, just look
at what the avaible editors CAN DO.
>Keep in mind that there's a trade-off between flexibility and
>ease-of-use. Linux will never be as easy to install as Windows 95. It
>isn't intended for that purpose. It's far too powerful and flexible for
>that and assumes that the user wants to go beyond mere word processing.
No, it won't. But that doesn't mean that it can't get easy. (Or just not
hard) Linux will be here for awhile, and so we've got to live withit.
For those of you who would like an account on an honest-to-God
PDP10'ish system...
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
Path:
Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!newsfeed2.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.eerie.fr!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news
From: xkladmin(a)paulallen.com (XKLeTen Admin)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.sys.dec
Subject: XKL (PDP10) Site Announcement
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:55:47 GMT
Organization: XKLeTen
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <34a85fd3.3481181(a)nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: xkladmin(a)paulallen.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: stl-wa16-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Dec 29 6:56:58 PM PST 1997
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235
Xref: Supernews70 alt.sys.pdp8:1899 alt.sys.pdp10:3974 alt.sys.pdp11:2924
comp.sys.dec:58635
Dear Fellow PDP-10 Enthusiast,
Over the past 25 years, it's been challenging for all of us to find a
place to run our PDP-10 software. At the same time, there hasn't
been a library of PDP-10 software that is well taken care of, and
made easily available to the interested public.
I would like to offer a solution. I have invested in a TOAD-1
machine running the PDP-10 architecture, and would like to make
its capabilities available. The TOAD is manufactured
by XKL Systems Corporation, and is a completely new hardware
implementation of Digital's 36-bit PDP-10 architecture, not an
emulator running on another platform. This machine I've purchased
will be a repository for PDP10 public domain software, including the
collection of the DEC-10 and DEC-20 DECUS tapes.
By making access accounts available to an initial limited group, we
hope to learn of any issue areas with our new program. Through an
account you can set up with us, you can access this library, and run
programs you may not have seen for years. You may also submit your
own programs for storage, and for use by fellow advocates. These
programs may be submitted via FTP, email or 9-track tapes. Once you
have an account established you could access XKLeTen via telnet.
Anyone may download the libraries of software through anonymous
FTP from XKLeTen.paulallen.com.
The machine, named XKLeTen, is configured as follows:
TOAD-1, 36-bit computing system
TOPS-20 system software
32 MW memory board
4 mm DDS tape drive
9 track tape drive
8 gigabyte disk
I encourage any of you who are interested to contact us to set up an
account. To be considered for an account, please submit the
following information to XKLadmin(a)paulallen.com:
Full name
Email address
Interest or purpose in this project (short summary)
Desired account name
If you have any questions about XKLeTen, or how to execute the
anonymous FTP, please contact us via the same email address.
Bill Gates and I used PDP10s to develop much of Microsoft's early
software. I hope many of you take advantage of this new opportunity
to keep alive some of your old memories.
Paul G. Allen
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
>> >I'll have to reserve judgement on Win 3.1 as I've never tried to run it on
>> >an 8088 (I thought Microsoft dropped support for the mode required by the
>> >8088 in Win3.1, though), but OS/2 is right out. It's entire reason for
>> >being is to run on the 286, so an XT won't cut it.
>>
>> Now if you want to see something really fly, load up Windows 1.03 or 2.0
on
>> it. Those'll run like lightning on any x86 with 512k or more. I have 1.03
>> running off a DD 3.5" floppy on a GRiDCASE 3 laptop (XT class, no HD, Gas
>> Plasma CGA, 512k, DOS in ROM)
>
> Yes, Win 2.0 was quick; code bloat in those days wasn't merely the
> inconvienience it is today-- back then it was FATAL! We had a small,
> minimalist programming ethic back then.
>
> > >In addition to Xenix, CP/M-86, Minix, and a variety of Forths, there are
>> >other Unix clones (Venix, for exmaple), the UCSD P-system, and MP/M-86
(if
>> you
>> >can find it!). I don't know offhand whether Concurrent CP/M-86 requires a
>> >286, but I do not believe it does.
>
>I have a copy of Concurrent. The version I have will ONLY run on a
>PC or XT! Hell, I don't think it even supports hard disks! (But I
>can check).
>
>>
>> Anyone know of a free source for x86 CP/M? or forth? Am I missing
>> something? Isn't forth a language, not an OS?
>>
>>
>> - John Higginbotham
>> - limbo.netpath.net
>>
>
>
> Jeff
Well, would someone dare offend the MS EULA and send me one of:
a)Windows 1.x/2.x
b)Concurrent CP/M
c)Xenix
d)Forth
Finally something that I KNOW about! The XT won't use Linux, that's only
for 386 & higher processors. The XT came with a 4.77MHz 8088, but it's not
hard to find a 8MHz version. You've got to consider that you've ususally
got less than 512K of workable RAM. Depending on what kind of HDD you have
(the XT came with a 10MB, but the XT's lasted so long that I found mine with
a 42, another reason that you can't run Linux, it requires 40MB minimum) and
monitor (the XT came with a mono, but many have CGA EGA and I've even found
a VGA) you can run Windows, up to 3.1. You can also run OS/2 (earlier
versions) and many of the smaller OSes made during the early 80's. Software
is EASY to find for 'em, they'll run most of the software I've seen that was
made up to 88-89 or so. Many of the programs that are found on the
"Ultimate Collections of xxxx Shareware", or stuff like that, mostly old DOS
programs will run on the XT.
So, Linux isn't possible, DOS isn't what you want, so get OS/2 or
Windows. Also, try to use the best monitor that you can find, as they can
pretty much run what a 286 can. Try to find as much RAM as possible.
Hope that this helps,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: SUPRDAVE <SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: operating systems
>In a message dated 97-12-31 10:36:45 EST, you write:
>
><< K, let's say I have a stock IBM PC XT. What can I put on it except DOS?
> >>
> yes, minix would work, but i dont think it's free. there's something
called
>ELKS which is under development, but you need to have a working linux box
or
>similar to download the images and create them for use on the xt. seems
that
>720k drives on the xt were recommended as well. for more info, goto
>www.uk.linux.org (i think)
>
>david
Classifieds 2000 (http://www.classifieds2000.com/) has a thing to
automatically let you know when new listings are added. I've signed up for
anything in the "old computers" category, and got this t'other day:
>Greetings from Classifieds2000,
>
>Cool Notify found the following items meeting your search criteria:
[...]
> IMSAI 1978 - DESK TOP, $200, Used
> Eve: (530) 877-5368 Mail: sugar-ii(a)webtv.net
[...]
>To view the complete ads, go to:
>
> http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/Search.exe?358502+29-DEC-97
Hope someone can afford to give it a good home!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
Have a look at: http://www.linux.org.uk/ELKS-Home/index.html
----------
From: Zeus334[SMTP:Zeus334@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 5:32 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: operating systems
In a message dated 97-12-31 17:40:13 EST, you write:
<< > (the XT came with a 10MB, but the XT's lasted so long that I found mine
with
> a 42, another reason that you can't run Linux, it requires 40MB minimum)
and
> So, Linux isn't possible, DOS isn't what you want, so get OS/2 or
Errrr...not to quibble...but the primary restriction on using Linux is the
processor and the RAM not so much the hard drive. You can run a usable
linux system on a 386 with 4mb of RAM and 20mb of drive space. I know
because I ran a small FTP/web server on one...if I powered it up, it'd
still run and do ok...can't handle many simultaneous users and swaps
itself to death if you don't reboot it every morning but that's easy
with crond.
You can't do ALOT of software development mind you...but you can have
full networking utilities...even run Lynx for web stuff...and write
shell scripts and editors and do all kinds of useful things.
Wirehead - Anthony Clifton
>>
Er....one question here. I've tried Linux many times, as well as Minix. From
all of my attempts, I have come to the following conclusion: Linux is not for
doing USEFUL things. The express purpose of Linux is to provide something for
people to recompile. After all, you HAVEN'T seen people doing something on
Linux besides recompiling the kernel and configuring TCP/IP stacks, HAVE YOU?
On Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:02:06 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell
<ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>OK... Assuming all your hardware is working and at the standard addresses
>>t will be, unless somebody has messed about with it), try the following.
{...snip...}
Wow, this thing works great! Faster than I expected. Thanks for the
help!
On Tue, 30 Dec 97 09:23:28 GMT Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk wrote:
>>Rich, you don't say what flavour of PDP-11 you've got, but I have vague
>>mories of a '44. Certainly your description of behaviour sounds like
>>the '44 console program (which runs on an Intel microprocessor somewhere
>>in there.
Phil, it's an 11/34a. Booting works by issuing a "DK" at the $ prompt.
The front keypad controller is an Intel 8008.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
There were (still are) a lot of cartridges for the PCjr. Many of the
games came on these cartridges so that Junior's internal memory could be
taken advantage of. Also second parties came out with "quick boot"
cartridges that would speedup the booting process. There was one called
"jr Video" and also one that had another BIOS on it for a hard drive set
up. The BASIC cartridges are still in demand.
Does this help anyone ot there??
Louie Levy
Eugene PCjr Club Newsletter Editor
www.efn.org/~pcjrclub
I was given some DEC manuals and have no use for them. They're all new in
the shrink wrap and if anyone wants them they can have them for the cost of
postage from Florida. Here's a list: Network Communications- DECnet_DOS
Getting Started, Network Communications- DECnet_DOS User's Guide, Network
Communications- DECnet_DOS Release Notes, Network Communications-
DECnet_DOS Installation Guide, Network Communications- DECnet_DOS
Programmer's REference Manual. I don't know if there is any software in
the packs but it doesn't look like it.
Joe
>At 02:10 PM 12/31/97, you wrote:
>
>> Yes, it's a language but like IBM APL it has (is ?) it's on evironment
>>and OS. Both require a IBM with the ROM BASIC.
>
>That's out then. I want something truly bizarre to run on my GRiDCASE 3.
Many years ago I bought a single-user copy of CCS MUMPS. It will run on an
XT (it even used to work just fine on my DEC Rainbow), but runs under
MS-DOS, so it's not _really_ an operating system (unless you want to grant
Windows operating system status).
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
> Anyone know of a free source for x86 CP/M?
http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/
> or forth?
ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth is a large archive of Forth stuff. The home
for fig is http://www.forth.org/
> Am I missing
> something? Isn't forth a language, not an OS?
Sure, throw _that_ in my face!
I'm aware of a company locally that used to run all their accounting on a
multiuser BASIC whose name escapes me. They were using an AT at the time; I
don't know whether that particular BASIC would run on an XT.
When you get to things like multiuser Forths and multiuser BASICs, it's hard
to say where the language stops and the OS begins...
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
someone posted to a local newsgroup about a non working apple //e for $10.
here's what i got...
apple //e in original box. not working, im told; boots to garbage on screen.
it's a late model //e, but just before the enhanced version, so it has that
nice keyboard feel i like. A1 cosmetic condition.
duodisk in original box with cable. also in A1 condition except the drive
latches are dirty from dirty fingers.
mono monitor in original box. this is the one with the manual tilt screen and
the video cable. A1 condition, of course.
all manuals that ever would have shipped with this machine, in perfect
condition of course. also got all the promotional items that went with it,
including the apple stickers in their never opened bag.
~100 flippy disks of various apps, including some commercial ones.
aps ext 80 col card in original box
suprmod box, (no suprmod though). i also got manuals and papers with some of
the apps as well. everything was dutifully packed up and looks to be seldom
used. all in all, a perfect one for the collection! i noticed the shipping
boxes say "the PERSONAL computer" lol.
i have lots of spare apple chips so i'm wondering where do i start with the
//e problem? no beep either but garbage on screen. chips were reseated
already.
david.
FYI,
>
>Joe,
>Do you remember I once told you that IBM carries parts WELL past the date
>of marketing withdrawal.?? There is an 800 number to call to get prices
>AND parts identifaction. There is a FEE for the parts identification but
>the price quote and availability info is free. Write this # down..you may
>need it some day. 800-388-7080.
>If you call it and select parts pricing for PN 2305616 you will find that
>it has been assigned a new PN 2462593 and it costs $18.75. You can also
>order directly through this number. This does NOT work for PC parts (only
>real machines!!). Pick a part number off of your 5100 and see if it is
>still in the sysem (probably not)
>John
>P.S. there is an ex IBM'r in north Jersey who formed his own company to do
>nothing but repair series/1's years ago. His name was Al Horton and his
>company was called....are you ready for this.....Series/1. I don't have
>his # but your friend can try the phonebook.
>
Joe
In a message dated 97-12-31 10:36:45 EST, you write:
<< K, let's say I have a stock IBM PC XT. What can I put on it except DOS?
>>
yes, minix would work, but i dont think it's free. there's something called
ELKS which is under development, but you need to have a working linux box or
similar to download the images and create them for use on the xt. seems that
720k drives on the xt were recommended as well. for more info, goto
www.uk.linux.org (i think)
david
I've been working with an H-89 that was given to me a few months ago,
trying to make backups of the HDOS boot disk, both for myself and for
Don Maslin, Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives. I've
gone through the manuals and followed the instructions for copying the
HDOS system perhaps 20 times, but with only one working copy to show
for it. I had 4 blanks from Don, as well as another 4 of my own that
I tried. The media tests available in HDOS seem to indicate
everything is okay; in fact, I've used one of the same disks that
failed with HDOS to make a copy of NorthStar CP/M on my IMSAI since
then. The steps I've gone through are to INIT the diskette, then
SYSGEN *.* to copy the system files and utilities. According to the
manual, this is supposed to produce an exact copy of the boot disk.
It appears to work, in that it asks me to swap disks 5 or 6 times
(when I try doing a single drive copy), and it accesses both drives
repeatedly (when using a two-drive copy). After it has been at this a
while, it prints the message "20 files copied" and asks me to insert a
bootable diskette to reboot from. If I go back to the original boot
disk, it boots. With any of my copies (except one, which I thought I
made exactly the same way as the others), the system gives the normal
"H:" prompt, to which I respond "B" for "boot"; it spins the disk and
then hangs. Normally, if the disk is bootable, it says "Action?
(Boot)" and boots if you hit Return. Out of all these attempts, I've
actually gotten one bootable disk. I've tried bulk-erasing the disks
and starting over, thinking that perhaps that would help, but with the
same results. I'm out of ideas... Can anyone offer any suggestions?
I'm out of ideas...
-Bill Richman
bill_r(a)inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun.
Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it."
-www.paranoia.com
Been on the road the last few weeks but picked up a few items along the
way. In Houston I got a A20000 KB for 4.95 they wanted too much for the
monitor and computer; picked Mac KB for 2.99; commodore 128D complete 1.00;
VTEK Braille Display unit; Mac color display M1212 15.00 works; HP 45711B
notebook with HP 9118 3.5 ext unit, and HP thinkjet model 2225B all for
5.00; back here in the TwinCities (MN) I got Toshiba T1200 for trade; a
Epson Equity LT Q150A for trade; Toshiba T1100 Plus not working for 15.00;
Lisa 2 for 5.00; a Cari portable power unit for the Apple IIc for 3.00;
Epyx Monster Maze cartridge; Atari 3-D Tic-Tac-Toe cartridge; Zenith
ZWL-183-93 laptop free; 13 TI travelmate 2000 notebooks $5 each non
working; various books and manuals and different brands of mice (Mac, PC,
Next, etc). It's been a good holiday for shopping. Keep Computing !!!
Happy New Year to ALL.
Greetings;
Decided to fire up yet another previously unchecked box in the collection,
and after the normal preliminaries cranked it up, and found that it boots
to Xenix v3.0b. And of course, with the usual problems... No docs, and no
passwords...
Tried some of the more common openings, with no success so far... And I've
watched the boot process, and don't see any opportunity to abort to 'single
user' mode... Suggestions???
I can abort the boot all together, and end up at the following screen:
ALTOS COMPUTER SYSTEMS - 586
Monitor Version V1.1
Press any key to interrupt boot
Enter [1] to boot from Hard Disk
Enter [2] to boot from Floppy Disk
Enter [3] to enter Monitor
Booting from the hard disk takes me back to Xenix, I have no floppies so
that one is out for the moment, and going to the 'monitor' gets me this:
Enter option: 3
< A, B, D, G, I, K, L, M, O, R, S, X >
Anyone have any insights as to what these commands are? (don't want to
stumble onto a HD init by accident)
When Xenix boots, it indicates that the machine has 840k of RAM, but says
little else. I'm not even sure right at the moment what processor is in
it. (not dug that far under the panels)
Anyone familiar with this particular machine, and/or this variant of Xenix
that might be able to provide some insights? Any thoughts would be
appreciated!
Thanks!
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
alt.folklore.computers)
OK, I have a few small(1/2 ton...) problems...
I broke my floppy drive! What size belt(IBM PN 2305616) does the 4965
drive use? And what material is the front cover? Seems that the cover for
the floppy drive uses molded tabs instead of those nice metal snaps. Has
anyone ever tried adding those snaps? I might do that... But meanwhile, I
either need a replacement cover or glue it together. Would normal
superglue work? OK, on to the floppy drive... Seems that after 15-20
years, floppy drives(among other things) like to break down. This time the
belt was rather brittle, and it snapped when I tried to remove it. I'm
expecting the same thing when I dig around in the hard drives.
OK, on to the next question... I have a total of five hard drives(one 4963
and four 4967), and one of the 4967's was setup as the primary IPL drive.
Problem is I don't know which one it is and have no way of figuring that
out(at least until I get everything else running right). I have two
floppies labeled as IPL... There is a set of two disks, the first says
"EDL Compile System, Insert in Drive 1 and IPL" and the other says "EDL
Compile System, Insert in Drive 2". What exactly are they? And the other
disk just says "IPL" with nothing else on the label. And then there is the
possibility that they are blank disks...
BTW, I'm working on a page for my Series/1 on my Tripod web site, it
should be up by the end of the week(assuming I can find my QuickCam by
then).
TIA
-JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.htmlhttp://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/
> > Anyway, I hooked a terminal up to it and lo-and-behold, a prompt. Now, I've
> > never owned a PDP-11, so be gentile, here. How do I get it to run a command
> > shell? I have installed two RK05 drives, the 0: drive has a {supposedly
> > good} RT-11. Upon boot, I get the following on the terminal:
> >
> > 000000 170002 170002 165360
> > $
> >
> > I'm assuming that the "$" prompt is the monitor prompt. It seems to only
> > accept two-letter commands before performing an auto-carriage-return. The
> > "165360" is also on the front panel display.
>
> OK... Assuming all your hardware is working and at the standard addresses
> (it will be, unless somebody has messed about with it), try the following.
>
> 1) Turn on the machine, drives, terminal
> 2) Put a good boot pack in drive 0. Flip the load/run switch on the drive
> to run. The disk should start spinning, and after a minute or so the
> heads should load. The READY and ONCYL lamps should light. Keep a finger on
> the load/run switch and an ear to the drive. If you get unpleasant noises
> when the heads load, suggesting a partial headcrash (the sound has been
> described as a cat being fed backwards through a lawnmower!), then flip to
> LOAD at once and your heads may still be useable.
> 3) Type DK <CR> (or DK0 <CR>). It MUST be in upper case. The RD and WR
> lamps on the drive should flash a bit, and the machine will boot. If it
> doesn't do anything, then either you don't have the RK05 boot ROM in
> the system, or you have some hardware problem.
Rich, you don't say what flavour of PDP-11 you've got, but I have vague
memories of a '44. Certainly your description of behaviour sounds like
the '44 console program (which runs on an Intel microprocessor somewhere
in there.
If this is the case, I think Tony's description may be incomplete. The
'44 has a lever switch on the front panel marked something like HALT -
RUN - BOOT. You can try booting by toggling this to the BOOT position
and releasing it. Otherwise leave it in the RUN position and type:
B DK0
I suppose I'd better check this in the manual when I get home tonight -
If I'm wrong, Tony will never let me live it down...
Philip.
<Err, 'PDP11' covers a whole lot of machines from something like an SBC2
<in a BA11-V (about the size off 2 modern notebooks stacked on top of ea
<other) to a PDP11/70 in a number of 6' racks. There's no 'average'
<machine IMHO
No to mention the PDT series and PRO350/380 series also a s100 board by
marinechip systems.
<There's a whole lot of OS's. Among them are :
<RT11 (single user, a little like CP/M)
RT-11 had four monitors, SJ/single job, FB/forground background,
XM/extended memory and a BM/batch monitor. Later versions (v5.5 or so)
have networking hooks for DECnet, lat and other services.
I run RT-11 on a:
BDV-11 (11/23A)
BA11S (11/23B)
BA11N (J11)
PDT11/130
Mongo (a dual by 12 slot rack with 11/23A, 1mb ram, DLV11j,
BDV11b rom(boot), H780 power)
<RSX-11 (many varients - the forerunner of VMS in many ways)
RSX-11 was the forerunner of VMS. It's realtime capable, multitasking
and can support timsharing as well. DECnet was supported for either
DDCMP or Eithernet networking.
POS
POS was a single user version of RSX-11 with a GUI interface for the
PRO300 series. It supported a Phone management system, large
format videodisk and DECnet via serial or Eithernet.
<DOS-11 (one user at a time, single tasking?)
<Tripos (Cambidge University's locally-written portable OS)
<Fuzzball (An OS with TCP/IP networking, using many utilities from RT11
<TSX-11 (multi-user OS built on top of RT11)
<Unix (certainly v5, v6, v7 and some BSD's ran on PDP11's)
V7 was supported on the MicroPDP-11 using the J11 (has I&D space) cpu.
<Xenix ? (I've heard rumours of a PDP11 port)
There was also Venix (I have that on a pro350).
<UCSD p-system
Learned Pascal using that on an H-11 varient.
<RSTS/E (never used it, so can't say what it's like)
Resource sharing, timesharing looks like rsx, rt or basic depending on
the monitor running. I have RSTS on DU0: of my system and RT-11 on DU1:
Later versions of RSTS support DECnet networking.
<XXDP+ (diagnostic OS)
Realllllly slooowwww.
Also CTS-300/rt-11 Commercial operating system supporting DIbol which
was a sorta cobol.
DSM-11 a database system with MUMPS as the language
There as CAPS a cassette OS for the TU60 dectape.
Micropower Pascal (host is RT) target is OS less and can be what ever
the applications is.
<There were also some stand-alone programs that didn't need an OS,
<including an assembler and Basic from DEC (which loaded from paper tape
<FIG-forth, a couple of other Forths, etc.
IOX, not an OS but an IO excutive for building custom systems.
Allison
Loads more docs from Knox! Vax/PDP stuff, and some PDP-8 printsets.
I also saw DEC SYSTEM-TEN on some books. A CP/M diskset (Not sure what for), a few magtapes, and some module.
What's an M840? I thought is was the CR04 card, am I wrong?
I have't looked thru it all yet, more later.
.
-------
On Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:19:59 -0800 (PST), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Richard A. Cini wrote:
>> Anyway, I hooked a terminal up to it and lo-and-behold, a prompt. Now,
I've
>> never owned a PDP-11, so be gentile, here. How do I get it to run a
command
>What's wrong with being Jewish in this situation? Are they any less
>capable of helping you with your PDP-11?
>The JDL will certainly hear about this! :)
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
Maybe I'm just slow, but I don't get it...Oh, DOOOOH! I get it now. You
know, I never run spell-checkers on my e-mail, Maybe I should start! Jewish
PDP-11 responses are welcome! :)
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
Hi -- perhaps you can help me! I am looking for a working Mattel
Electronic Football game. Do you have any advice for me?
I'm sending this from work, but would appreciate it if you could respond
to my home e-mail -- farrell7(a)swbell.net
Thanks and happy new year!
Well, the electrician came today to upgrade my service to 200A, and laughed
when I told him that the thing that prompted me was that I got this "large,
old computer." He couldn't believe that a "residential" computer draws 30A
startup and 15A running. The sound of it amazes me, too.
Anyway, I hooked a terminal up to it and lo-and-behold, a prompt. Now, I've
never owned a PDP-11, so be gentile, here. How do I get it to run a command
shell? I have installed two RK05 drives, the 0: drive has a {supposedly
good} RT-11. Upon boot, I get the following on the terminal:
000000 170002 170002 165360
$
I'm assuming that the "$" prompt is the monitor prompt. It seems to only
accept two-letter commands before performing an auto-carriage-return. The
"165360" is also on the front panel display.
Any clues would be appreciated. I'd like to get this thing running by
the time I get back to work on 1/5. Happy New Year to all!
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
I've used wd40 as a solvent for adhesive residue on both case plastic with
so-so results, and on the clear plastic LCD protective cover on a TRS-80
model 100 with great results. Didn't scratch the plastic one bit.
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
It seems the PDP-11 is the favorite machine on this group... I have never seen
one, so could someone tell me a few things.
a)Year
b)original price for average package
c)does it have an OS? What is it like?
d)what can the thing do?
In a message dated 97-12-29 20:03:49 EST, you write:
<< Well, the electrician came today to upgrade my service to 200A, and laughed
when I told him that the thing that prompted me was that I got this "large,
old computer." He couldn't believe that a "residential" computer draws 30A
startup and 15A running. The sound of it amazes me, too.
Anyway, I hooked a terminal up to it and lo-and-behold, a prompt. Now, I've
never owned a PDP-11, so be gentile, here. How do I get it to run a command
shell? I have installed two RK05 drives, the 0: drive has a {supposedly
good} RT-11. Upon boot, I get the following on the terminal:
000000 170002 170002 165360
$
I'm assuming that the "$" prompt is the monitor prompt. It seems to only
accept two-letter commands before performing an auto-carriage-return. The
"165360" is also on the front panel display.
Any clues would be appreciated. I'd like to get this thing running by
the time I get back to work on 1/5. Happy New Year to all!
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================ >>
Found this on Usenet. Those interested, please contact the original
message author directly.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11
Path:
Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.new-york.net!news.decus.org!eisner!kaplow_r
From: kaplow_r(a)eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow)
Subject: FREE to a good home: RSX and PDP-11 documentation
Reply-To: robert_kaplow(a)hccompare.com
Lines: 18
Organization: DECUServe
Message-ID: <1997Dec29.132403.1@eisner>
X-Trace: news.decus.org 883419907 29876 KAPLOW_R [192.67.173.2]
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: eisner.decus.org
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:24:03 GMT
Xref: Supernews70 vmsnet.pdp-11:9073
While cleaning up piles of boxes over the holidays, I've unearthed a bunch
of PDP-11 documentation. Most of it is RSX stuff from the 80s, but I've
also got two copies of the 1978 RSX-11M System Logic Manual. Some of the
materials are from various training classes I took during my career with
Digital.
Also uncovered are assorted DECUS publications from the 80s.
As a certified pack rat, I hate to throw this stuff away, so I'm offering
it to anyone who will pay the postage from the Chicago area to wherever in
the world you are.
If you're interested in any or all of this stash, send me e-mail before
January 9th. I'll see what I can do about inventorying the 10 cubic feet
of assorted binders between now and then.
Bob Kaplow
16 bit Paleontologist - emeritus
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
What are you looking for ? I have books and manuals for many items.
At 01:08 PM 12/29/97 -0600, you wrote:
>I'm looking for something on-line that provides a description of PC
>computer components. Any suggestions?
>
>Please e-mail to: rdseaman(a)flash.net
>Thanks
>
>
i have recently been given an old Zenith laptop model ZFL-181-92. batteries
discharged or dead. no power supply. i would like information if anyone
can help me on what type of power supply to use. the label on the bottom
of the systems says: DC 12 V, Plug-in power supply Model 150-272.
i'm hoping someone out there has one of these puppies and can tell me the
power rating and polarity spec's (the power jack is not marked as to which
pole is positive). i haven't cracked the case open yet but am interested
in more information on this system if anyone can educate me. i think this
is an old 8088-based box? it has no hard drive but does have dual ("pop
up") 3-1/2" drives (someone has written "720" on them so they're presumably
720 k drives). i wonder if this will run a generic DOS?
any help appreciated. tx.
- glenn
+=========================================================+
| Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA
| Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer
| groberts(a)mitre.org
I find that has alot to do with the amount of certain resins in the
plastics. It's hard to keep a controlled mix on those injection molders
sometimes... I speak from experience. :)
At 04:32 PM 12/21/97 -0600, you wrote:
>I was also lucky enough to find an Adam complete in box a few months
>back. Mine, unfortunately, seems to have gotten "sunburned"
>(yellowed). The strange thing is, some of the keys on the keyboard are
>perfectly white, some are slightly yellowed, and some are very badly
>yellowed (spacebar especially). What is the condition of your
>keyboards?
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
I just had the most wonderful bit of luck, and have been offered the
Kaypro II, 4 and 10 in the one hit, for almost nothing. Anyway, the
person offering them was curious (and now so am I) regarding the
existance of the Kaypro 16. Was there indeed such a system, and how sis
it differ from the others? And did Kaypro make anything else?
Thanks heaps,
Adam.
Hello.
Someone wanted a the Vitrual Turing machine earlier. I've got both .zip (for Win) and .tar (for Unix) formats, 87K a piece. Please contact me if you're still interested.
Sorry that it took so long,
Tim D. Hotze
Gang -
I've saved 2 Apollo 3500's from the dumpster
at work. Unfortunately, I know nothing about
Domain OS, nor was I able to save the books,
software or tapes.
I did however save the complete units,
including the 14" color monitors, keyboards
and 1 of the mice. The one unit I've opened
up is configured with 24M ram, and the
340MB ESDI drive.
Since there seems to be no good port of
any other operating system, I'm looking for
a good home for them. I take best offers
for the next couple of weeks with one
caveat - you must come to St. Louis to pick
them up. I am not in a good position to
freight ship these units, and don't have the
time to build a suitable crate/pallet.
Please reply by email, since I don't get to
read the digest as quick as I would like.
Thanks!
| Allen Underdown - wbrco(a)valuenet.net |
| Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, |
| homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! |
| http://web.cybercon.com/wurmborn |
Got another one. This fellow's selling AT&T systems. Contact him
directly if interested.
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
Path:
Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail
From: YVBZ58A(a)prodigy.com (Eric Timm)
Newsgroups: misc.industry.electronics.marketplace
Subject: AT&T 3B2 computers
Date: 27 Dec 1997 11:08:45 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY
Lines: 4
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <682njt$1qak$2(a)newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>
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Anyone interested in AT&T 3B2 computers? I have a model 310 and a model
400 for sale. Monitors, keyboards, and cables are included. E-mail me at
YVBZ58A(a)prodigy.com for more info.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
Many months ago, I saw an old tower at a thrift store for $20. I did not take
it, and now wonder what I missed.
It was a tall tower case, kind of like a PS/2. I think it was a WYSE. It had
two LED displays, one said something like 8, the other ".2". There was a 51/4"
floppy drive, and I could see an MFM -like hard drive through the half-open
case, mounted at the very top. It worked, but all it had on the grey sheet
metal back was a power connector, four 15-pin terminal ports and 4 ethernet-
like connectors.
What did I miss?
Any of our UK folks interested in this? If so, please contact the
original author directly.
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
Path:
Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.he.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!falstaf.demon.co.uk!robin
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: For Sale uVAX 3400
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:17:14 +0000
Organization: Ruff'n Ready
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4Op+yKAqWNp0Ew2c(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaf.demon.co.uk
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Dear All,
I offered this a few weeks ago but didn't get any replies. Appologies
if someone did answer but it didn't get through :-(.
I have a uVAX 3400 that works ok but I don't want any more. If anybody
is interested ten get back to me and we'll haggle, no reasonable offer
refused. Buyer collects it'll go very cheap to a good home.
The system is in GLoucestershire outside stow on the wold.
REgards
Robin
Robin Birch robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
M1ASU Old computers and radios always welcome
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf wrote:
>
> >Sam Ismail wrote:
> > One of the
> >> systems he mentioned he had was a Video Brain. Apparently this is a
> >> video game system. I *think* I vaguely remember hearing about this
> >> system. At any rate I'm curious about it and was wondering if anybody
> >> knew what it was as we both had too much tequila for him to describe and
> >> for me to comprehend it.
> >Video brain was made by a firm called UMTECH, used a microprocessor
> >called F8 and had 1 to 4K of RAM memory. It was possible to store the
> >data on cassette and, you are right there, it had many plug-in
> >cartridges with games on them. It was sold mainly through departments
> >stores and specialty electronic stores (at least that is what "A
> >Collector's guide to personal computers" book has to say about it)
> >I remeber reading a little blurb about Video Brain in the April 1981
Creative Computing. Essentially, by that time the company had gone out
of business. . .
Hello,
I have in my posession a Video Brain home Computer, It is in mint
condition, however I cannot find anything on the internet about it.
I see listings on some of the collectors web sites but no pictires or
even anyone that has one in their posession.
Can you help me find information on this apperently rare home computer.
Thank you for your input..
Phil Clayton
I have just been offered a pile of PC/Xt stuff, along with a couple of
things I wanted. If anyone is interested in old cards, MFM hard drives
and the like, and are in Sydney, I could pass on the email address of the
person making the offer - he wants a bit of money for it all, but not too
much - I just already have more XTs than I want. :)
Adam.
We just received the donation of an NEC APC, (built in monitor, two 8"
floppy drives, MSDOS 2.11) for our museum collection. It works, but
naturally no documentation. Can anyone give me information on the pin-outs
for the com port and printer port? (Both look like Centronics connectors)
Best wishes to everyone, and thanks for all the help you have provided
over the year.
Charlie Fox
Hi
I am the owner of a Kaypro 10 computer kindly left to me by a deceased
friend, unfortunately I have no manual which restricts my use of the
computer. Can you help me with this predicament please?
Please reply to: e-mail JJCN.Garrett(a)btinternet.com
tel: 0181 667 1349 (England)
With details of cost and postage charges etc.
Hello.... I've found a PS/2 with a 386SX 20 processor, etc. but it has no
battery. The person that has it says that "he doesn't have a battery, and
damage is expected." does anyone have a spare that they could trade or sell?
About how long does a battery last, how much time, and what kind of damage
is likely? (I'm thinking LCD-screen)
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
OK, for those of you that have been waiting for an opportunity to get
a VS2000, here it is -- if you happen to be near the New York area. ;-)
Please reply TO THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR, not to me. I'm just forwarding
what I found on Usenet.
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
Path:
Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.156.128.20!news1.best.com!nntp2.ba.best.com!best.com_SPAMBLOCK!edel
From: Nathan Keir Edel <edel(a)best.com_SPAMBLOCK>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: VS2000: Free in NYC
Date: 26 Dec 1997 05:19:19 GMT
Organization: Forte Systems, Inc.
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <67veon$sek$1(a)nntp2.ba.best.com>
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Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:58593
Vaxstation 2000
Configuration questionable. Booted when I put it into storage.
Running some version of VMS. HD/RAM?
Some cables. Probably not all of them. Keyboard if I can find it. Big
(19")
greyscale monitor too. No manuals.
Also an AT&T 3b2/310, if anyone wants it.
Both 100% FREE in Queens (near #7 line) NYC, if you pick them up.
Not interested in shipping them or cash offers. If nobody picks them up by
1/31, they go in the trash. First come, first served.
If interested, email edel(a)best.com BEFORE 1/2 or
Nathan.K.Edel(a)dartmouth.edu
after 1/3
--
Nathan Keir Edel "In this world of delusion, #6: Which side are you on?
edel(a)best.com never turn your back on a #2: That would be telling.
friend..." -- Iron Maiden -- The Prisoner
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
Hello, all:
I got a Kodak digital camera for Christmas, and I was suprised at the
quality of the pictures. But, I anticipate lousy battery life from repeated
downloading, picture taking, etc.
The docs say that I can use a Mac Powerbook 140/170 AC adapter to power
it. Does anyone have a spare that they can sell me?
TIA!
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
<that a PC drive could eat its children before 360k became standard. I
<don't know enough about head technology, though I assume that the head
It's littly to do heads ot specific systems. *ALL* drive before the
3.5" sony standard were capable of the dasterdly deed.
Reason, the line known as write enable not. This is an active
low(ground) line and when power went you had the head in contact,
some power and a command to write a logical transistion at that point...
BANZAI!!! Some systems were better in they would lock out write commands
if power were failing (assuming both used the same power.). My NS* has
such a mod and it's allowed me to avoid early bit disks! It's fairly
trivial to put in a system where the drive and all run off the same
power supply/switch. The TRS-80 and like systems were prone due to each
being seperately powered. FYI the safest was powering off the drive
first.
FYI: for a while I was using 360k drive on non-PC and the risk was
always there, unless hardware prevented it external to the drive.
The 3.5" drives put power fail on the drive avoiding all the pain.
Allison
> I recall a warning about the datadrives or the Adam in general: don't
> turn on the Adam with a datatape in the drive, the drive will send out a
> pulse that may damage data stored on the part of the tape next to the
> write head (some said up to a few feet away, I don't know about
> that...:/ )
I remember my heathkit (H-89) had a similar warning about starting up with
a disk in the drive.
> How do you get in the cmos on a Grid 1660????
>
> Some body brought it to me and said it could not find A drive and when I
looked it had 5 drives A.C.D.F.H. And when I got rid of H drive it took
the Operating files with it. now I got disk error and I want to get into
cmos to see if I can format the drive and start from scratch.
When all else fails I use an old (Packard Bell!) 286 setup program that
seems to work most of the time. Won't work on nonstandard HDD tables,
though.
manney
> <I remember my heathkit (H-89) had a similar warning about starting up w
> <a disk in the drive.
>
> This is generally true for most everything but 3.5" floppy disks,
> TU58 dectape and harddisks(there are exceptions).
How 'bout CD-ROM's? <g>
Don't DARE plug that drive into a //c!!! I did it once (not with my own ones
:) and it fried the //c, leaving the drive intact (I think).
Original:
>seen one quite like this. it's a bit smaller than the apple 3.5 drive, and
>doesnt have the stripes molded in and does not have an eject button either,
>only the hole to push a paper clip wire in. can this drive be used on a //c
or
>similar?
As far as I know the 800k Apple drive you have described can only be used
on a Mac Plus or better. Or a modified 512k. I really doubt that it will
work with a //c. I could be wrong...
<> I recall a warning about the datadrives or the Adam in general: don
<> turn on the Adam with a datatape in the drive, the drive will send ou
<> pulse that may damage data stored on the part of the tape next to th
<> write head (some said up to a few feet away, I don't know about
<> that...:/ )
<
<I remember my heathkit (H-89) had a similar warning about starting up w
<a disk in the drive.
This is generally true for most everything but 3.5" floppy disks,
TU58 dectape and harddisks(there are exceptions).
Allison
At 05:39 PM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm looking at picking up an Olivetti M10, but I don't know too much about
>this one. I'm told that it has neither a floppy nor a hard drive. Can
>someone enlighten me, or at least point me in right direction for more
>information?
If I'm not mistaken (and I might be) the M10 is one of the family that
includes the RS model 100, NEC 8201a, a Kyocera (I forget the model #, but K
made 'em all) and one or two others.
No floppy, what's a hard drive?, but eminently useful and probably one of
the rarer machines in the family. iirc, it had a pop-up screen, which none
of the others had.
Actually, it's an evil piece of garbage, and you should send it to me right
away. Don't hesitate, your life could be at stake! 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
Adam wrote:
> Someone near Sydney just offered me a pile of stuff, mostly old pc/xt bits.
> But in amongst it all was a Commodore 8296-d and a Sharp 1700. I imagine
> the Sharp is one of the plamtop models they produced, rather than the more
> laptop style Sharp PC-5000 - is this the case? And the Commodore I guess
> to be an 8286 with a typing mistake, and thus merely a MS-DOS clone. COuld
> someone please confirm this for me?
No, 8296 is a very late PET. I have three of them, but one lacks a
keyboard. Good old PET 8000 series architecture, although I'm told some
have a later version of BASIC. 128k of memory, but I think you can only
get at 96k + screen.
The 8296-D was the built in disk drive model. Twin floppies, DSQD, on
the GPIB internally. Uses a later version of the Commodore DOS software
than I have docs for :-( (Commodore disk drives all had a CPU in the
drive unit that ran a system they called DOS and communicated with the
system unit over the GPIB or the later VIC/64 interface)
My advice to you: GRAB IT!!!!!!!
Philip.
PS I once found an 8296D in the skip at work. I asked to buy it and was
told officially no, not safe, PSU is playing up but unofficially I could
grab a few parts if need be. I did and upgraded my (then only) 8296 to
the D spec. It cost me _more_ to do the upgrade than it would have to
repair the original machine. I was not pleased...
Someone near Sydney just offered me a pile of stuff, mostly old pc/xt bits.
But in amongst it all was a Commodore 8296-d and a Sharp 1700. I imagine
the Sharp is one of the plamtop models they produced, rather than the more
laptop style Sharp PC-5000 - is this the case? And the Commodore I guess
to be an 8286 with a typing mistake, and thus merely a MS-DOS clone. COuld
someone please confirm this for me?
Thanks heaps,
Adam.
At 08:20 PM 12/23/97 -0800, you wrote:
>As far as I know the 800k Apple drive you have described can only be used
>on a Mac Plus or better. Or a modified 512k. I really doubt that it will
>work with a //c. I could be wrong...
I had my Apple 800k running on my 512k, which started out as a 128k.
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
I picked up two macs today for $15 total.
the first one is a mac 512 and the second is a mac+ 1meg. both are missing
their mouses but they do work just fine. I also got two external 800k
floppies. One is called mirror magnum 800, but doesnt recognize a working
floppy. the second one is called an apple external 800 drive, but i've never
seen one quite like this. it's a bit smaller than the apple 3.5 drive, and
doesnt have the stripes molded in and does not have an eject button either,
only the hole to push a paper clip wire in. can this drive be used on a //c or
similar? current plans for these macs will be to take the best parts of two
512k macs and make one good one with the remainder going to my brother for a
macquarium project. <!> I already own a platinum colour se and this one i just
got is a 1meg beige colour se. is there any significant differences between
these two se models?
david
At 04:55 PM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>How do you get in the cmos on a Grid 1660????
>
>Some body brought it to me and said it could not find A drive and when I
looked it had 5 drives A.C.D.F.H. And when I got rid of H drive it took the
Operating files with it. now I got disk error and I want to get into cmos to
see if I can format the drive and start from scratch.
Hold in the "F" key while booting. You'll then be able to boot off a disk in
drive A.
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
I'm looking at picking up an Olivetti M10, but I don't know too much about
this one. I'm told that it has neither a floppy nor a hard drive. Can
someone enlighten me, or at least point me in right direction for more
information?
Thanks,
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
> PG Manney wrote:
>
> > Small belts are available -- there's a company in NJ (Winifred M. Berg)
> > that specializes in small stuff. I can dig up the address for you if
you
> > want.
>
> Yes please! Although ordering all the way from the US is a last
resort...
>
> Philip.
http://www.wmberg.com/ or 516-599-5010
(800-232-BERG in the US)
manney(a)nwohio.com
> Thanks for letting us know! Yes, Christmas is on everyone's minds
> right now but more importantly, HAVE FUN AT IT especially at
> christmas day!
Sorta like the little kid who got the "Our Father" prayer slightly wrong
..."Forgive us our Christmasses..." he prayed.
Christmas is hectic for me, 'cause I run a store.
manney
How do you get in the cmos on a Grid 1660????
Some body brought it to me and said it could not find A drive and when I looked it had 5 drives A.C.D.F.H. And when I got rid of H drive it took the Operating files with it. now I got disk error and I want to get into cmos to see if I can format the drive and start from scratch.
<My VAX is working! And it talks TCP/IP!
<DNS is out, but I can send mail (by telnetting to port 25 of the mailse
WHat OS, what IP software?
What kind of vax? An ever curious vax user.
Allison
I saw one of those at the UW-Madison surplus sale a few weeks ago,
at a similar price, but passed it up. It looked like an A/D box of
some kind, I too saw the apple logo and wondered if it wasn't for
the Apple II era - Isaac Newton, get it? I definitely saw A/D converter
chips in there, maybe they were on the expansion cards. No CPU necessary,
it could be driven by TTL logic if it was just spitting data.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
Many thanks to all who responded with advice, part numbers etc. I have
passed the part numbers on to my colleague - I shall try Don Maslin's
suggestions for a web search next.
Joe Rigdon (?) wrote:
> I have access to a HP-85 repair manual. I can get the HP part number for
> the belts, but I doubt they're available anymore. I have a couple of -85s.
> I'll open them up and see what size belt they take. I probably won't be
> able to do either one until next week.
I think I have an 85 as well - in fact I know I do (somewhere) - I must
look and see what state the belts are in, and if I can measure them...
If not some measurements off yours would be very useful.
PG Manney wrote:
> Small belts are available -- there's a company in NJ (Winifred M. Berg)
> that specializes in small stuff. I can dig up the address for you if you
> want.
Yes please! Although ordering all the way from the US is a last resort...
Philip.
At 06:14 PM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote:
> The Adam did have some expansion beyond the second datadrive you could
>get a disk drive controller to hook in an external drive.
You could even go with an IDE hard disk and 2400 baud modem if you could
find them.
>pulse that may damage data stored on the part of the tape next to the
>write head (some said up to a few feet away, I don't know about
>that...:/ )
That part is totally true. It was aggravating trying to remember to take the
tapes out. I ended up ruining 1 or 2 that way.
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net