- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by groberts＠mitre.org

Tony Duell originally asked this but the group may be interested. The MMD1 8080 trainer was based on a design by Jonathan Titus and Company (Tychon Inc.) and was apparently described in a series of articles in the May-July 1976 Radio Electronics, however it is also described in "The 8080a Bugbook", a Howard Sams book (ISBN 0-672-21447-4), 1977. Tony: the two ROM sockets are for 1702 ROMS. The very simple but efficient monitor, called KEX for "Keyboard Executive", easily fits in the 256 byte space of one of these, leaving ROM socket 1 for "expansion". I don't have access to the original articles on this unit but it was easy enough to reverse engineer the assembly listing of KEX, below. I'd give y'all instructions on using the monitor but that would take the fun out of reading the source listing! i've also stuck the HEX file at the end of the listing. have fun! - Glenn * KEX.ASM * * Keypad EXecutive * * This is a reverse engineered assembly listing * of the 8080 trainer ROM. For more information see * Radio Electronics May-July 1976 issues, also Chapter 2 * of "The 8080 Bugbook" * * Glenn Roberts 2/13/97 * RST1 SET 003010A RST2 SET 003020A RST3 SET 003030A RST4 SET 003040A RST5 SET 003050A RST6 SET 003060A STACK SET 004000A USERFWA SET 003000A * * Keypad equates * H.KEY EQU 10Q L.KEY EQU 11Q G.KEY EQU 12Q S.KEY EQU 13Q A.KEY EQU 15Q B.KEY EQU 16Q C.KEY EQU 17Q ORG 0 JMP START DS 5 JMP RST1 DS 5 JMP RST2 DS 5 JMP RST3 DS 5 JMP RST4 DS 5 JMP RST5 DS 5 JMP RST6 DS 5 * * Cold boot entry, load stack and memory pointer * START LXI SP,STACK LXI H,USERFWA MAIN MOV C,M ; C is value to be displayed MOV A,H ; Output High byte OUT 1 ; of memory counter to left LEDs MOV A,L ; and low byte of memory counter OUT 0 ; to center LEDs * * Loop to process keypad input * KPLOOP MOV A,C ; output the value of C to OUT 2 ; the rightmost LEDs L110 CALL RDKEY ; Read key from keypad CPI 8 ; Is it numeric octal? (0-7) JNC L134 ; no, test for others MOV B,A ; Temp save in B MOV A,C ; Get the current working byte RAL ; and move it left 3 bits RAL RAL ANI 11111000B ; then clear low 3 bits ORA B ; and insert temp value (B) there MOV C,A ; then move back to C JMP KPLOOP L134 CPI L.KEY ; Was key "L"? JNZ L345 ; no MOV L,C ; yes, move working byte to L JMP MAIN ; and go to top CPI H.KEY ; Was key "H"? JNZ L156 ; no MOV H,C ; yes, move working byte to H JMP MAIN ; and go to top L156 CPI S.KEY ; Was key "S" (step)? JNZ L170 ; no MOV M,C ; yes, move working byte to memory INX H ; increment memory pointer JMP MAIN ; and go to top L170 CPI G.KEY ; Was key "G" (go)? JNZ L110 ; no PCHL ; yes - load Program Counter from HL DS 65 ; filler * * Delay (debounce) * * This routine delays for a bit over 10ms. * Note cycle time is 1.5 microseconds * Total delay: 62 + (294 * 24) = 7,118 cycles * 7,118 * 1.5 = 10.677 ms. * DELAY PUSH PSW PUSH D LXI D,294 ; Number of times to loop DLY1 DCX D ; Decrement DE MOV A,D ; and test for DE = 0 ORA E JNZ DLY1 ; if not, keep looping POP D POP PSW RET * * Read a key from the keypad (with debouncing) * RDKEY IN 0 ; Read the keypad port ORA A ; set flags JM RDKEY ; no key depressed - loop CALL DELAY ; have key, debounce RDK1 IN 0 ; Re-read the key ORA A ; set flags JP RDK1 ; key still depressed - loop CALL DELAY ; key released, wait IN 0 ; Read once more ORA A ; set flags JP RDK1 L345 ANI 00001111B ; Only lower nibble of interest PUSH H MVI H,0 ; Set HL to point to table ADI #TABLE MOV L,A MOV A,M POP H RET * * Lookup table for keypad * TABLE DB 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 DB S.KEY DB 0 DB C.KEY DB G.KEY DB H.KEY DB L.KEY DB A.KEY DB B.KEY END START :10000000C33800BB3A32D63AC30803318022CD5EF2 :10001000C31003210842CD46C3180323CDEC3D1184 :10002000C320030842CD7041C32803AF328C3A325B :10003000C33003153B2108423100042100034E7CEC :10004000D3017DD30079D302CDCD00FE08D25C0070 :100050004779171717E6F8B04FC34500FE09C2E508 :100060000069C33E00FE08C26E0061C33E00FE0B85 :10007000C278007123C33E00FE0AC24800E93B116A :100080000142017B3BFF2B3A7B3BE601C178D1E18A :10009000CA263DFE3DC2103DCD7F3DDAE23B21DF69 :1000A0003ACD8734FE2CCC213E21DF3A11FB4101B1 :1000B0007B3BFF2B3A7B3BE601CAC03C21D53AF59E :1000C000D51126011B7AB3C2C400D1F1C9DB00B738 :1000D000FACD00CDBF00DB00B7F2D600CDBF00DB0C :1000E00000B7F2D600E60FE52600C6F06F7EE1C944 :1000F00000010203040506070B000F0A08090D0E94 :00003801C7

28 years, 2 months

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The PC's Soviet?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >I seem to recall reading somewhere (BYTE ~1985 ?) that Soviet made CPUs >(6502 clones?) were so poorly maid that they individually came with a >list of which instuctions worked and which didn't. Also seem to recall >an article on the soviet Apple ][ clone of the time (CPU on a large >daughterboard, pirated ROM, cost approx US $20,000) > >-Matt Pritchard >Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist >MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ All right, I have taken this for a while, but no more. This ignorance about Soviet technology and abilities is ridiculous. I think you people have kept your anti-communist opinions along with you IBM 704s. Although the USSR certainly had ridiculous administration, and its technology was not very modern, there were many advances by the soviet union, and it now has just as much technology as the US. Lastly, the US scored below Russia in third grade math tests. Also, a LOT of modern programmers are Russian. Most Russian immigrants I know deal with computers. When I was in first grade (1990), we were first led into our school's new computer room. It had a classroom of terminals (in plywood cases), and a punched card machine. My young mind could not discern any other details. I don't mean to be ridiculous, but please be a bit more careful, people! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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The PC's Soviet?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >> All right, I have taken this for a while, but no more. This ignorance >> about Soviet technology and abilities is ridiculous. I think you >> people have kept your anti-communist opinions along with you IBM >> 704s. >> >> Although the USSR certainly had ridiculous administration, and its >> technology was not very modern, there were many advances by the >> soviet union, and it now has just as much technology as the US. >> > >The soviets always had comparable technology, but were limited by >inefficient manufacturing and logistics. Those only exposed to western >design philosophy tend to belittle soviet engineers because of the >seemingly crude appearance of their equipment, but they had to meet >vastly different product requirements. Their export market was the >underdeveloped third world, no infrastructure at all. When your target >market is some place like Mongolia, Eritrea or South Yemen you have an >entirely different set of design parameters. There is no Radio Shack >down the corner, no parts store in town, no UPS delivery service. Even Why Radio Shack when you have BFI? I can just imagine a fried US made cell phone flying into a third-world bonfire...that sure would stink. Another reason why Russian products were build to last was, very simply, because if you trash your phone, you'd have to get on a two-month waiting list to get another one. > Jack Peacock > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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FW: Anyone want to trade with this fellow?

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found on Usenet. If you want to do some trading, contact him directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: psthomas(a)nyx.nyx.net (Patrick Thomas) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: Anyone trade sun->vax stuff? Date: 15 Apr 1998 04:03:42 GMT Organization: Nyx Public Access Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <892612952.112379(a)iris.nyx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: iris.nyx.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #5 X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a Free Public Access Internet Service: http://www.nyx.net Our AUP / Free Speech Policy are at http://www.nyx.net/policies/ Direct complaints to abuse(a)nyx.net X-Post-Path: iris.nyx.net!psthomas(a)nyx.nyx.net Path: blushng.jps.net!nntp.snfc21.pbi.net!news.pbi.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.124.0.31!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!quasar.dimensional.com!nyx.net!nyx!psthomas Hi again, all... Well, after some four years of absence, my curiousity has again been piqued. After having to divest myself of my collection of VAX hardware in my move to the west coast, I find myself interested to find a microvax or vaxstation again. Even (gasp) a VAXstation 2000, if nothing else. I have a bunch of Sun 3/60s, and even a an IPC, and possibly an HP 9000/400 that I'd be willing to part with, if anyone might be interested. Or I can always go with cash, for those less- enterprising types. :) I live in Portland, now, and will pick up anything in the portland/seattle areas. I also remember how cheap VAXstation 2000s were four years ago, and I would suspect they aren't old enough to be collectible quite yet. :) I'd be more interested in something like a vs3x00 or some such. -- Patrick -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 2 months

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S-100 tech Summary (was Re: This is new...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> a problem. The Northstar Horizon was good, VECTOR MZ, COMPUPRO and the <> was an oufit that made mostly boxes all well cooled. < <Integrand? One I'd kill for even now. They designed for cooling and still had an attractive box. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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S-100 tech Summary (was Re: This is new...)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> > Some of the better boxes had put some thought to air flow > and this was not > > a problem. The Northstar Horizon was good, VECTOR MZ, > COMPUPRO and there > > was an oufit that made mostly boxes all well cooled. > > Integrand? The Integrand was one of the best. I still have one of their big S-100 boxes, fans everywhere, monster transformer in the power supply, but somewhat dificult to use all the DB cutouts on the back. Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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S-100 tech Summary (was Re: This is new...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<signal lines. Every board required it's own regulation, which <could take 20% or more of the board space, as well as being a <nightmare to keep cool. If you see early pictures of loaded <IMSAIs, the cover was always off. This was a necessity, the <heat was too much with the cover on. I had to use a 16" fan to <keep mine running with 64KB of 2102 based static RAM (not 21L02s <BTW, they cost more than the fan did). Some of the batter boxes had put some thought to air flw and this was not a problem. The Northstar Horizon was good, VECTOR MZ, COMPUPRO and there was an oufit that made mostly boxes all well cooled. In the mid to late 70s it was either boxed systems like TRS-80, Apple or designer systems like S100 or SS50. SS50 was 6800 based 50 pin bus and tended to be a very different thinking. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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AT&T 6300 PSU Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 23:22, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Apr 14, 0:40, David Williams wrote: > > > You can see pictures of it on my web site on the AT&T 6300 page > > Having a text-only machine here, I can't see the pictures, alas... There's a lot of brown/grey corrosion on the top surface near the terminals, and not a lot else visible on the PSU itself, though it looks like there's some on the base of the computer case around the PSU. > > wipe off any excess WD40, though. > > I _hate_ WD40... It's far too easy to misuse and causes too many > problems. I prefer WD40 to machine oil for electricial connections, but I have to agree with Tony that it's very easy to misuse. It should be supplied in micro-syringes, not spray cans, IMNSHO. Or only available on prescription, perhaps. That's why I said to be sure to wipe off the excess. And WD40 should be kept away from moving metal parts. It's sometimes useful as a plastic anti-squeak lubricant, but definitely not for metals. I use CLP-BreakFree for that :-) > and light machine oil. Start with (UK) 600 grit, end with 1000 grit, at > least. I'd clean the screw terminals with dry 600 grit paper and then > contact cleaner. I've seen contact cleaner seriously misused too. Some types leave "a light film" behind -- if you use a little, once. I once had to fix a BBC Micro with faulty ROM sockets; the owner had repeatedly fed it contact cleaner until it was swimming in the stuff. ISTR cleaning most of it off with 1,1,1-TCE and then washing the board in Teepol (industrial grade/laboratory detergent) before it could be attacked with a soldering iron. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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The PC's Soviet?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK... I was talking to a Ukranian programmer, who told me that in 1968 the PC was invented, not far from where he worked in Ukrane. Now, that's 4 years before the microprocessor, but is it possible? And this guy might be dilusional, he's VERY communist, but then again, at base, so am I, but with a democratic twist. Anyway, what's the story behind this? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

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neat find

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi tony, you know where to get the amd assembler for this stuff ? cheers, emanuel ---------- > From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: neat find > Date: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 3:14 PM > > > > > today at goodwill I found a Advance Micro Device AM2900 Evaluation & > > Learning Kit in the it's box (very nice design on it) with one worksheet. > > the unit was only $5. > > The comment 'you lucky beggar' springs to mind !. > > > The AMD 2900 series of chips were essentially a build-it-yourself CPU. > The main ones were : > > The 2901 - a 4 bit ALU + registers. You could cascade these to give you as > many bits as you wanted (in multiples of 4). There was also a fast carry > generator, equivalent to the 74182. Was that the 2902? > > The 2903 was an enchanced 2901 AFAIK. I never used it. > > Then there were the 2909 and 2911 4-bit microcode sequencers. You > cascaded those as well to access whatever size control store you wanted. > Add a bit of jump logic, and write the microcode to control your CPU. > > For simpler designes there was the 2910 12 bit sequencer which couldn't > easily be extended (*). That would seqeunce a 4K control store, and had > some of the jump control logic built-in. > > I've done a bit with these chips, and was reading the data books earlier > today, actually. Great pity they're no longer made... > > (*) PERQ systems used a 2910 as the sequencer on the 4K PERQ CPU board. > The 16K CPU board also used a 2910 with a '2 bit kludge' to provide the > extra address lines. The pun on '2 bit' is intentional, and will be > understood by anybody who's ever written PERQ microcode... > > > > > > > -tony

28 years, 2 months

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360 clones (was RE: The PC's Soviet?)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>> Such innovation, but it ended up in vain efforts just cloning >> IBM mainframes >> and the like. Sound like a company you know? (Minus the vain). > >Several companies: RCA Spectra, XDS Sigma, Amdahl, Fujitsu, Hitachi ... > Jack "I love MS, MS loves me" Peacock You're right. I actually have nothing against MS, just it's current product line and a few of it's business practices. A good company shouldn't need to um... err.... ahh... lobby (that's it!) anyone. Tim "Who Care's About MS, except when you need to" Hotze

28 years, 2 months

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360 clones (was RE: The PC's Soviet?)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> Such innovation, but it ended up in vain efforts just cloning > IBM mainframes > and the like. Sound like a company you know? (Minus the vain). Several companies: RCA Spectra, XDS Sigma, Amdahl, Fujitsu, Hitachi ... Jack "I love MS, MS loves me" Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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The PC's Soviet?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Yes it is possible, if you play with the meaning of "PC". If you define >it to mean a small computer used by a single person, then a low end mini >computer becomes a PC. In which case we have to go all the way back to Yes, but it would have to fit in a space that people can have.. say... at home. >machines like the Bendix G-15 (late 50s ?). The USSR did not have >microprocessors before the US. And the US was not developing an atomic bomb during WWII. >That's easy to prove, because soviet >micros all used US designed instruction sets. How could they produce an >8080 compatible IC before it was released by Intel? A better question: How could Intel make a 8080 compatible machine before it was produced by the Soviets? ;-) Honestly, I think that Soviet computers are, on the whole, a sad story. Such innovation, but it ended up in vain efforts just cloning IBM mainframes and the like. Sound like a company you know? (Minus the vain). Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

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The PC's Soviet?

by peacock＠simconv.com

> OK... I was talking to a Ukranian programmer, who told me > that in 1968 the > PC was invented, not far from where he worked in Ukrane. > Now, that's 4 > years before the microprocessor, but is it possible? Yes it is possible, if you play with the meaning of "PC". If you define it to mean a small computer used by a single person, then a low end mini computer becomes a PC. In which case we have to go all the way back to machines like the Bendix G-15 (late 50s ?). The USSR did not have microprocessors before the US. That's easy to prove, because soviet micros all used US designed instruction sets. How could they produce an 8080 compatible IC before it was released by Intel? Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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This is new...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>It's easy to blame novice users and get rich quick spammers, but I can't >agree with you. I look on the 'Net as evolution in action. Right now >we have the feeding frenzy of spammers drowning us in unwanted email. >The easy, and wrong, solution is to force them to stop. The right way >is to make it uneconomical for them to send spam. How? I don't really >know, I just ignore it, sort of like background static noise on a >shortwave radio. In general, it is ignored. I know someone, who recently got online. They own a small company, and were offered 15,000 eMail addresses at .01 per person. That sounded like such a great deal! So, they sent the e-mail, and got 200 eMails that bounced, then in 3 months, had recieved 6 orderes for $5 and over 500 eMails about the bad business practices of spamming. They knew no better, but still... >But consider, what kind of response rate do spammers get? Now junk >snail mailers have to actually pay per piece, although at a reduced >rate. They have to make the junk mail attractive to readers so they can >get a high enough response rate to justify the mailing. Maybe we need >the same mechanism for mass commercial postings. In other words, the >ISP specifies in the terms of service that mass commercial mailings (aka >spam) are charged at the same mailing rates as the local post office, >something around 20 cents per item. Now you have a legal means to get >back if the ISP catches a spammer, because they are liable for the >contracted costs. Spam should be illegal. The commercialization of the Internet's what we needed for a long time: a worldwide information resource. Allowing people to profit by it (by ads, etc.) gives you more information available, and a wider user base. Even sci-fi writers didn't envision a global information resource like ours for another ten to twenty years. Let's face it: Until we go past the money-stage, for many things to become popular, they seemingly MUST be commercial.

28 years, 2 months

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S-100 tech Summary (was Re: This is new...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> S-100s started out with an Intel 8080, then Zilog Z80. That was <> pretty much the end of the 8-bit version, although there were < <Hmmm...this is sort of like the Creationist version of where S-100 came <from. Actually, a guy named Ed Roberts at a company called MITS that <built a computer called the Altair 8800 invented the S-100 bus. It's the of the form... In the beginning Ed created MITS and intel created the 8080 and it was ok,... :-) <> The response time compared quite favorably to contemporary low <> end DEC PDP-11s, and for a fraction of the cost. Actually the Alpha MicroSystems was a s100 box in the 1979-80 time frame that used the WD13 chipset (same as the LSI-11/pdp-11) with slightly different microcode and it did run with the same or slightly better performance than the LSI-11/03 it's contemporary. <> Another problem was the unregulated power supply. Unregulated <> +8 and +/-16VDC was run over the bus itself, right next to <> signal lines. Every board required it's own regulation, which <> could take 20% or more of the board space, as well as being a <> nightmare to keep cool. If you see early pictures of loaded <> IMSAIs, the cover was always off. This was a necessity, the <> heat was too much with the cover on. I had to use a 16" fan to <> keep mine running with 64KB of 2102 based static RAM (not 21L02s <> BTW, they cost more than the fan did). Typical of the earlier boxen. Their cooling path was poorly thought out at best and looking at them it's was obvious. Usually some fish paper in the right places did the trick. <> >As for laissez-faire, I never have believed in it. It makes society <> >too concerned about money. This is proven when complete crap hardware <> >is released now, and people don't care because it's good _financially An aside to this... some of the S100/SS50/trs80/apple... items from the various third parties were quite the garbage. Some fo the suppliers were patently ripoff artists where money was taken and nothing shipped. Reality check. PCs today can be purchased to do real work and expected to perform. Computers of the late '70s and into the early 80s were often useless as shipped if they worked and required a fair amount of acumen to configure, expand and *required* programming skills. The latter due to add hardware and even create applications to make them useful. For example to add a hard disk in 1980 (10mb DISCUS system was $3995.00) and that was the drive and a s100 card. The user would have to set the jumpers on the card for the correct IO ports to not conflict with their system. The system BIOS would have to be rewritten to add the hard disk and the system tracks on the floppies and the hard disks would have to be rewritten onto the media. This assumes you had the BIOS for your system and it was CP/M or similar... all others the bet was off. So to add a hard disk you needed a system that was up and running, sources, could read the sources supplied... I often had the problem of the NS* using hard sectored 5.25 and the supplied media was 8"!!! Also you had an assembler, editor, debugger and knew 8080/z80 assembler. When I went from a teltek controller to a different one... do it all over again as the new one was totally incompatable. Far cry from an IDE disk and setting the CMOS. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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S-100 tech Summary (was Re: This is new...)

by peacock＠simconv.com

>I am completely unfamiliar with S-100 systems, so could you please >explain... were S-100 technologically superior to PCs (i.e. IBM >PC 5150), or just aesthetically? As far as I know, they used an >older processor... S-100s started out with an Intel 8080, then Zilog Z80. That was pretty much the end of the 8-bit version, although there were several other variants (8085, NSC 800, Hitachi 64180, Signetics 2650, etc.). Hmm, I never recall seeing a 6502 or 6800 CPU board. Once the S-100 was standardized around the IEEE-696 specifications the good 16 bit systems started appearing. One of the earliest was the 8086 by Seattle Computer Labs (IIRC). Famous because it came with the ancestor of MS-DOS, which Microsoft later bought for their IBM PC deal. You might say all the PC software now in existence owes its existence to the S-100.... Anyway, there were quite a few 16-bit systems. Many 80286 variants, including a nice one by Macrotech, a dual Z80H/80286 CPU. There were several 68000s, TI 9900, National 32000, Zilog Z8000, and a variant on the Western Digital LSI-11 bit slice chipset called Alpha Micro. The AM ran its own multi-user operating system, very reminicent of RT-11 (there was a strong DEC influence there). Was the S-100 technically superior? Well, if you go by the IEEE-696 specifications then compared to either the XT or AT it was quite a bit better. Maximum memory was 16MB (24 bit address, 8 or 16 bit data path), 8 interrupt levels (open collector! which meant multiple boards could use the same IRQ), 16 DMA levels (still better than the 7 DMA levels on the current PC). Most 286 based systems ran up to 8Mhz reliably, some made it to 10 or 12 Mhz (compared to the original AT at 6Mhz). Even better, it was common practice to use static RAM memory on the better business systems. If that term doesn't sound familiar, cache memory on modern PCs is static RAM. The significance is that there were no wait states or lost cycles to refresh. Think of how fast your Pentium would run today if all 64MB of RAM was cache, not DRAM. S-100s were also very expandable. Motherboards usually had between 18 and 22 slots for full sized machines. You could put a lot of RAM, serial, and disk controllers in that many card slots. I built custom 286 based multi-user systems that supported 10 or more users running production business work. The response time compared quite favorably to contemporary low end DEC PDP-11s, and for a fraction of the cost. S-100s were also early adopters for much of the current crop of PC peripherals. Networking, using ARCnet at 2.5Mbps over coax. Digital Research supported network access to disk drives using CP/NET on top of MP/M II. No, it wasn't TCP/IP, but it still compares quite well to a basic Netware system. Disk drives, both the 5.25" floppy and the 5.25" hard drive showed up on S-100s before PCs. S-100s using MP/M II could support disk drives up to 512MB, long before MS fixed the 32MB barrier in the XT and AT. The S-100 did have some drawbacks, mostly from the weird control signals the CPU had to generate (anyone remember how difficult it was to simulate a PSYNC on a non-8080 processor?). It suffered terribly from early failures to standardize the bus. Many of the 8-bit systems had unsolvable compatibilty problems. (on the other hand, it did make for some extra pocket change for struggling college students who knew how to tune an S-100 to make everything work :) ) Another problem was the unregulated power supply. Unregulated +8 and +/-16VDC was run over the bus itself, right next to signal lines. Every board required it's own regulation, which could take 20% or more of the board space, as well as being a nightmare to keep cool. If you see early pictures of loaded IMSAIs, the cover was always off. This was a necessity, the heat was too much with the cover on. I had to use a 16" fan to keep mine running with 64KB of 2102 based static RAM (not 21L02s BTW, they cost more than the fan did). The single worst problem was the absolute lack of any hardware standardization beyond the 696 specs. There were no I/O addresses for anything. One manufacturer might use a WD 1791 floppy controller at port 7xH, another would use the NEC 765 floppy controller at address 9xH. There were no standardized BIOS ROMs either. Systems came with some basic boot ROM for one particular disk controller/serial interface, and that was it, everything else was supported by drivers in the machine specific version of the OS. A boot disk for an Altos wouldn't run on a North Star, not even close. For those who think it an evil that the world has standardized on the Wintel architecture for PCs, trust me, the other choice is far worse. >Was it just an issue of being used to them? Sure, but then if you wanted a good hardware oriented micro with lots of support from 3rd parties, in the mid 70s the S-100 was the only choice. You could get a board to do just about anything, tho you had to program it yourself. Nearly all boards came with schematics, if you didn't like the design or it wasn't quite compatible, you could cut traces and rewire to your own choosing. My own IMSAI is far from a standard out of the box model. >As for laissez-faire, I never have believed in it. It makes society >too concerned about money. This is proven when complete crap hardware >is released now, and people don't care because it's good _financially_ You don't like the profit motive? *gasp* That's, well, that's just plain un-american (understandable and excusable if you happen to be european tho). Jack "show me the money" Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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This is new...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<ISTR an article on alt.folklore.computers a year or so back, giving the n <the lawyer who sent the first officially-recorded unsolicited email spam. <he lost his account. I can't remember the details, so it might be hard t <(and I'm not sure of the details, but 5-6 years ago sounds about right). The landmark was right around the time I left DEC (1993). I'd been on the 'net via their gateways since before '87. I was greatly sadend when I the words went out the internet would permit commercial ops. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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This is new...

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: Wirehead Prime [mailto:wirehead@retrocomputing.com] > Not all of us ISPs are evil and unconcerned with the > Internet. I run a > good, solid business with a 95% customer retention rate > calculated over 4 > years. I don't do business with spammers or pornographers and have > written my contracts so that I can immediately terminate any customer > that violates Netiquette. I've been yelled at about that...that I'm > ... > Some of us who started in the early days of commercialization > wanted the > Internet to be like we were used to it being when we used it > from college > or businesses in the late 80s and early 90s. You can thank > CompuServe, > AOL, and hordes of know-nothing little ISPs with wads of cash to > substitute for business sense for the current situation. It's easy to blame novice users and get rich quick spammers, but I can't agree with you. I look on the 'Net as evolution in action. Right now we have the feeding frenzy of spammers drowning us in unwanted email. The easy, and wrong, solution is to force them to stop. The right way is to make it uneconomical for them to send spam. How? I don't really know, I just ignore it, sort of like background static noise on a shortwave radio. But consider, what kind of response rate do spammers get? Now junk snail mailers have to actually pay per piece, although at a reduced rate. They have to make the junk mail attractive to readers so they can get a high enough response rate to justify the mailing. Maybe we need the same mechanism for mass commercial postings. In other words, the ISP specifies in the terms of service that mass commercial mailings (aka spam) are charged at the same mailing rates as the local post office, something around 20 cents per item. Now you have a legal means to get back if the ISP catches a spammer, because they are liable for the contracted costs. And just to bring it back on topic...when consumer PCs came out (IBM, PET, Atari, Apple, etc.) those of us who built and used "real" micros (S-100s of course) lamented that fact that the microcomputer market was being overrun by large corporations bent on destroying the laissez-faire market of the mid 70s. Sound familiar? Jack "I use an IMSAI, not those toy computers" Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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Collecting Philosophy, was Re: Asshole

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 1:36, Tony Duell wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Isn't a DX11 an IBM channel interface? Originally a big cabinet with a lot > > of flip chips and lamps? I've seen two, working. > > That's right. > Where on earth did you see one of those? A few summers ago, Leeds University were getting rid of an Amdahl mainframe and supporting equipment, which included several PDP-11s and two DX11s. I managed to invite myself along with a couple of friends, one of whom acquired a complete working DX11 and one in bits, plus cables. I think there was a doc set as well. I got an 11/73 with a much smaller 3rd party Qbus version, which I've since passed on, as the same friend actually has a 360 which he's hoping to get going again. > I really must cable one of mine up again, re-read the printset, and > figure out what on earth to use it for... First find a System/360 :-) Then find a lot of space with a strong floor. Jim put his in a room which he'd prepared with a false floor. Unfortunately the materials supplier had provided the wrong grade of board, and apparently the main unit rolled in OK, but when it came to its proper position, there was a crunching sound, and the 360 settled a few inches as several of the castors punched through the floor panels. Jim wasn't too pleased (he did get it fixed, though). BTW, the little DX11-alike in the 11/73 was accompanied by a "Camtech Ethernet QBus Interface". It's a quad-high Q-bus board, with a 68000 and a 68450 (PGA types), a 68230, 68564, some memory, and the usual AMD ethernet chip set. There's a 20-pin header for the ether i/f, and two 26-pin ribbon cable connectors near a pile of 26LS30s and MC3486's, so I assume this is some sort of terminal concentrator or PAD (there's also a 2.4576MHz xtal, which implies standard 300/600/1200... baud rates). I was told the firmware didn't support TCP/IP, but some other protocol. Anybody know what that would be? Is it any use for anything? Can it be changed to use TCP/IP? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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AT MultiProt Comm Card

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I have an IBM AT Multiprotocol Communications Adapter, new, in the original carton, with the original vinyl booklet and 5.25" disk for sale. It's only missing the cable which can easily be made from two 25 pin d-sub connectors (1M, 1F) and a piece of cable. Anyone in the US want or need this? $10 which includes the postage. It goes to the big dumpster in the sky if no one lays claim to it by Friday the 10th. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 2 months

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ESDI hard drives

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Does anyone have an ESDI hard drive for a PS/2 Model 70? I have a 60, but want to replace it with a 120 (the other size the PS/2 came with; I don't want to risk having an incompatible hard drive). I don't know if others are compatible. However, this is a wide single ribbon connector. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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tractor feeders| Warning, DEC War Story...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<programmer would inadvertantly spool a "binary file" to a lineprinter.. W <had <an individual, in the Maynard (Ma. DEC), at one point in time, spool a jo <to <the printer that hung off the DECsystem 1090 (serious tractor feeds on th <unit!) that took a day and a half, and consumed 24 boxes of "greenbar" ( Likely an LP26 or lp14, serious chainsaw (a device than changes trees to useless pulp). <have known some of the participants, they used to reside on ML3-6... Sorr <if <I digressed too far off topic... Hahaha!!! YES! than one was infamous! Allison

28 years, 2 months

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neat find

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The AMD 2900 series of chips were essentially a build-it-yourself CPU. <The main ones were : I have about a dozen 2901s and 2911s, fun parts. Fair amount of work to make a system around them though. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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tractor feeders

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<It is an Epson LQ-500. It has a removable set of tractors, which <mounts on top. However, they mount on the output end. This means that <there must be paper in the tractors that is beyond the print head, <which means that about a sheet of paper must be wasted. Could someone <explain to me what is the idea behind this system? Serious answer... pulling is more reliable then pushing. Also if that thins is like my LQ5000 and the LQ570 it can be set up in push mode. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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tractor feeders

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Actually, my favorites are the ones where the tractors are right on the platen. No jams and no wasted paper. I once had an Epson MX-150 that jammed something awful. I got rid of that. An example of the former is the Okidata 120, which I used with my C-64. But to tell you the truth, I can't stand wasted paper almost as much as wasted hardware ;) >Most older dot-matrix printers had tractors after the platten/printhead. >Some of them, like my Sanders units have 2 sets of tractors, before and >after the platten. > >Yes, it does mean that you waste a sheet of paper when you finish >printing something - you have to do an extra formfeed. On the other hand, >I'm quite sure it saves a lot of paper due to the reduction in the number >of paper jams. A lot of 'push' type tractors seem to be great at mangling >paper... > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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This is new...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 12:04, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > ISTR an article on alt.folklore.computers a year or so back, giving the name > > of the lawyer who sent the first officially-recorded unsolicited email spam. > > I think you're talking about Canter and Siegel, right? While this > wasn't the "first" spam, Canter and Siegel's "GREEN CARD" postings > are among the best well-known, and in many ways the most irritating. > (Canter went on the talk-show circuit after the spam disaster to > promote his book which claimed to show others how to succeed in > internet marketing.) Thanks, Tim, that's what I was thinking of. And thanks to whoever dug out the posting (sorry no attribution, I hit "delete" a bit too quick). Seems my memory was close but not wholly accurate. How unusual :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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Collecting Philosophy

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 23:07, Tony Duell wrote: > Ouch!!!. Even my standard test for floor loading wouldn't have found that > (= Jump up and down hard. If the floor doesn't give way, put the machine > on it and jump up and down again. If it's still OK, it'll probably stay > that way). Jim now has the flooring from our Department's old machine room -- and now I know why those floor panels are so heavy :-) > > BTW, the little DX11-alike in the 11/73 was accompanied by a "Camtech > > Ethernet QBus Interface". > The only thing that reminds me of is the Camtech JNT PADs and iso-ether > PADs used in UK universities as part of the JANET network. I've not got > any, alas (I'd quite like one...), but I seem to remember that at least > the JNT pads were Z-80 based and had a synchronous serial port connection > to the outside world talking some kind of X25... We had several, but they all got cannibalised. They were indeed Z80-based, and had lots of SIOs, DARTs, and a few PIOs in them too. Neat cases as well. > I have no idea what it talked instead of TCP/IP, but it'll probably be > something that was common in the UK at the time. Any ideas? I can look > back through PERQ and Torch XXX manuals to see if anything leaps out.. I've no idea. I imagined that Camtech made other ethernet stuff, and if they could make such a good-looking QBus ethernet i/f I thought there must be more around. I've never found any, though, nor have I ever found anyone who could tell me much about long-gone Camtech (apart from JNT PADs). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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AT&T 6300 PSU Question

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I looked at the pictures, and double checked my Olivetti M24, recently obtained from Andrew Davie. They are the same machine. This one also has a dead power suppy but none of the corrosion. The fan works because it is mains powered, 240v in this case. Hans Olminkhof -----Original Message----- From: David Williams <dlw(a)trailingedge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 14 April 1998 15:40 Subject: AT&T 6300 PSU Question I went to power up my AT&T 6300, which hasn't been up for about 4 years, and noticed that the PSU fan was coming on but the drives and motherboard didn't seem to be getting power. I opened up the system and was surprised to find the power supply was corroding. Now I'm not a PSU expert by any means so this was unexpected. The upper motherboard appears to be ok but I haven't checked the lower motherboard yet. It appears I can pull the PSU out and replace it but I'm curious as to why it began corroding in the first place. You can see pictures of it on my web site on the AT&T 6300 page or at: http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/attpwr1.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/attpwr2.jpg

28 years, 2 months

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This is new...

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

[SNIP] >shortwave radio. Speaking of shortwave, imagine if the FCC authorize commerce on ham radio! Ugh... I am completely unfamiliar with S-100 systems, so could you please explain... were S-100 technologically superior to PCs (i.e. IBM PC 5150), or just aesthetically? As far as I know, they used an older processor... Was it just an issue of being used to them? As for laissez-faire, I never have believed in it. It makes society too concerned about money. This is proven when complete crap hardware is released now, and people don't care because it's good _financially_ >And just to bring it back on topic...when consumer PCs came out (IBM, >PET, Atari, Apple, etc.) those of us who built and used "real" micros >(S-100s of course) lamented that fact that the microcomputer market was >being overrun by large corporations bent on destroying the laissez-faire >market of the mid 70s. Sound familiar? > Jack "I use an IMSAI, not those toy computers" Peacock > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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tractor feeders

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have a minor problem with a dot matrix printer, and its feeder. It is an Epson LQ-500. It has a removable set of tractors, which mounts on top. However, they mount on the output end. This means that there must be paper in the tractors that is beyond the print head, which means that about a sheet of paper must be wasted. Could someone explain to me what is the idea behind this system? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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This is new...

by peacock＠simconv.com

> And to make matters even worse, it was a husband and wife lawyer team! Birds of a feather, um, make that vultures, flock together... Jack "birdbrain" Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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tractor feeders

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: Max Eskin [mailto:maxeskin@hotmail.com] > there must be paper in the tractors that is beyond the print head, > which means that about a sheet of paper must be wasted. Could someone > explain to me what is the idea behind this system? At one time nearly all tractor feed printers pulled instead of pushed. Demand documents (i.e. tear off right above the print head) was not a concern for most printers. Reports were printed in batches, then separated by operators. Also, the paper was less likely to jam if you pull it through the paper path, rather than try to push it through. Ever see a paper jam on a 1200LPM chain printer? The operator could spend a good 15-20 minutes clearing out bits of shredded paper. Computer time was more expensive than the paper, no one cared if a few pages got wasted for form feeds. Jack peacock

28 years, 2 months

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This is new...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 11:06, Allison J Parent wrote: > Try about 5-6 years and it was there before but you could get the offender > tossed before that. Also When AOL opened to the net it seemed to add to > the fray. ISTR an article on alt.folklore.computers a year or so back, giving the name of the lawyer who sent the first officially-recorded unsolicited email spam. IIRC he lost his account. I can't remember the details, so it might be hard to find (and I'm not sure of the details, but 5-6 years ago sounds about right). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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AT&T 6300 PSU Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 0:40, David Williams wrote: > Subject: AT&T 6300 PSU Question > I went to power up my AT&T 6300, which hasn't been up for about 4 > years, and noticed that the PSU fan was coming on but the drives and > motherboard didn't seem to be getting power. I opened up the system > and was surprised to find the power supply was corroding. > You can see pictures of it on my web site on the AT&T 6300 page Jason's comment about liquid sounds about right. It looks more like something was spilt onto it, than as if something self-destructed. Anyway, it's usually electrolytic capacitors that self-destruct in that way, and that normally happens when there's a voltage there. > Any ideas? Also, anyone have a spare PSU? I don't really want to go > buy another AT&T 6300 just for this but suspect the PSU won't be easy > to obtain otherwise. I'd attempt a repair, or at least some further investigation. The case looks pretty yucky but from the pictures, the physical damage might not be that great. I'd take it apart and attack the case with a wire brush or steel wool, and a very light touch of oil or WD40. The terminals don't look too bad at all, a little brushing (stiff toothbrush preferred, or a brass wire brush or fine steel wool) and a little WD40 should work wonders. Make sure you wipe off any excess WD40, though. Depending on how bad it is inside, it might be worth washing, but do make sure that (1) any capacitors are discharged before you get it wet, and (2) everything is *completely* dry before you try applying power! Again, a toothbrush is a useful tool. In many similar PSUs, the fan is driven from the 12V line. If that's the case here, it implies that at least part of the circuitry is working, which is very encouraging. Perhaps only the 5V line is dead. It's hard to suggest much more without more information, and without seeing the inside. If you do try anything, apart from the obvious precautions, be aware that there are some very high voltages inside switch mode PSUs, as high as 300V. Also, many PSUs won't operate correctly without a load on at least the 5V line; at best, they won't regulate properly, at worst, they can be damaged. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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neat find

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

today at goodwill I found a Advance Micro Device AM2900 Evaluation & Learning Kit in the it's box (very nice design on it) with one worksheet. the unit was only $5.

28 years, 2 months

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Oops

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Sorry about the extra public traffic (and this one too). I didn't look at the "reply to" on Charles' message. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 2 months

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Asshole---drop this too!

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-04-12 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :I think we all would expect all the :subscribers to this list (and the other lists as well) to conduct :themselves in a civilized and honourable way [...] rotflmao

28 years, 2 months

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Asshole

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-04-12 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :... I only hope that there is a "silent :majority" who does not speak but disapproves them and this is the :only reason that keeps me from leaving conmans and their helpers to :their destiny by leaving this list. please, since you clearly haven't found any, assume you are wrong and bugger off. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

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This is new...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

This is new. Just brought the uVAX up again. I sent ONE message to Usenet mentioning the address. I now made it to some luser's spam list! This is the new thing... The spam appears to be in Japanese? I guess this will be the first spammer I mail that can UNDERSTAND what they're being mailed! (A-CNH) The question is, just out of curiosity, when did Usenet deteriorate to the point that spamming started? Was it around the time AOL let people on Internet? :) (J/k!) -------

28 years, 2 months

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Cassette BASIC in IBM PCs

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

My PS/2 Model 70 is a 386, released around 1990. It is the most recent machine I have seen to have ROM BASIC, with IBM DOS 3.3's BASIC.EXE jumping just fine. > >Here's one I've never run into, oddly enough. IBM PCs 5150 throrugh 5170 >had the BASIC ROM and BASIC.EXE and BASICA.EXE included with PC-DOS through >4.0 just jump to the code on the ROM. > >Later models (PS/2s) still have the Cassette BASIC, but don't seem to be >able to run the PC-DOS BASICs. Did IBM break the BASIC ROM after the 5170 >model? > >-- >David Wollmann | >dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM >http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Cassette BASIC in IBM PCs

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Here's one I've never run into, oddly enough. IBM PCs 5150 throrugh 5170 had the BASIC ROM and BASIC.EXE and BASICA.EXE included with PC-DOS through 4.0 just jump to the code on the ROM. Later models (PS/2s) still have the Cassette BASIC, but don't seem to be able to run the PC-DOS BASICs. Did IBM break the BASIC ROM after the 5170 model? -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years, 2 months

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This is new...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<years. It happened shortly after NSF lifted the ban on commercial traffi <and the 'net became better known to the public. Sure enough, a bunch of <marketeers with more greed than brains saw Usenet as a vast new territor <instead of what it was intended to be. Try about 5-6 years and it was there before but you could get the offender tossed before that. Also When AOL opened to the net it seemed to add to the fray. <The spam started. It has been throttled back to a degree, thanks largel <to the efforts of the anti-spam crowd (consisting mainly of sysadmins), b I haven't seen it slow. I've just about stopped posting in newsgroups and stay away from many web pages where they appear to do address capture. I don't even write in maillists (alt.sys.PDP8 to name one) that echo to newsgroups for the same reason. I'm tired of getting junkmail from some_bimbo(a)earthlink.com that really isn't earthlink and is likely a man. Even with reducing presence and using munged address in most places I still get the crap. I can live with commercial but the sex for sale is unacceptable. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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AT&T 6300 PSU Question

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I don't have graphical internet access, so I can't see the pictures, but could it be that electrolyte spilled from one of the capactiors? Just an idea... > >On 14 Apr 98 at 1:57, jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca wrote: > >> Wow! Looks like something have exploded inside and left there, >> eating away those metals...or a cat had sprayed it or mouse have >> known to get inside via a open card slot and pee. And leave rice >> sized BM's inside. This kind of corrsion looks like much liquid have >> left in there, judging by the patterns of corrsion. Did something >> have dripped on that computer? High humidry is out, you have good >> metals anywhere else because I had some that was stored inside a >> closet with high humidry and came out heavily corroded clone power >> supply box. > >I thought about that but the system has been sealed fairly well since >I put it in my climate controlled storage space. Still, it does look >like something was spilt on it. No open slots or anything so I don't >know what could have gotten inside. > >I have another AT&T PSU I've been using to power the hard drive on my >Amiga 1000. I may find a new power supply for the hard drive and use >that one as a replacement for the corroded one. Still, it would be >nice to know if something was dumped inside or the PSU itself >released something. > >> BTW, what kind of camera and type of lens used you have used to take >> this pics? That's very close up work and very sharp. > >I used a Kodak DC210 digital camera I borrowed from work. It's an >$800 camera so I'd hope it would take decent pictures. :-) I'm using >it to redo most of the images on my web site. It's a great camera. >And those images were taken at it's lower resolution. > >----- >David Williams - Computer Packrat >dlw(a)trailingedge.com >http://www.trailingedge > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
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XPS 100 Question

by kkant＠tiger.hastings.esu9.k12.ne.us

I recently received a BULL XPS 100 mini frame from out local college with all the manuals and disks.. etc It is a unix box, and I was curious if anyone has had any experience with these things? And if they can point me in the right direction to get this thing to boot :> Thanx Kenny

28 years, 2 months

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:32 AM 4/11/98 PDT, you wrote: >Wait a second, ARE there private newsgroups on this topic? I thought >it was just an idea everyone proposed but never did... Not that I know of. If there are, they're not letting me in. (A good idea anyway, I suppose.) >>It has. It comes up every now and then on every mailing list. What >>usually happens is that those who want a newsgroup go off a create a >>newsgroup, and the ones who can't access or don't like newsgroups stick I was speaking of mailing lists in general. As in the Land Rover list, which after many such suggestions finally split into Series and Coil Sprung lists, and now also has a newsgroup. Sometimes it goes the other way; I suspect rec.equestrian was around long before the dressage list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Asshole

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:28 PM 4/12/98 +0000, you wrote: >> I promise that we CAN. I didn't say anything about willing to. However, >> should I come across one, you'll be the first to know. >> Tim D. Hotze >> >Is this a promise? >> > >> > I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE >> >> somewhere for you. But if you did, would you want to risk your own reputation by sending it to him? Goodness knows, it might not have the right serial number or something, and then you'd be branded a con man for life! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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[OFF TOPIC?] Fixed Freq Monitor Questions

by ecloud＠bigfoot.com

J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > OK, This is mildly on topic. My monitor is an HP 1097C, making > it at least 10 years old. However, I am using it with a modern PC, so > that's where the 'on topic' issue gets a little iffy. I'm sure there > are plenty of people here who can answer this question. A pointer to > a FAQ would be most welcome. Here's one interesting URL: http://rugmd0.chem.rug.nl/~everdij/hitachi.html I've seen others as well but that was the one I made a bookmark to. :-) > These old monitors are Fixed frequency, unlike our modern > monitors which multisync. The 1097C supports only a 78.125 khz > Horizontal Scan Rate and a 72hz Vertical Refresh Rate. Now a couple > of years ago I foolishly bought one of those cards by Mirage > (www.mirage-mmc.com) which is supposed to be a 'fixed freq video > card'. Actually, it's an OEM Diamond card, basically an S3/968 video > processor with an IBM 52x RAMDAC - ala Diamond Stealth VRAM. The > fixed Freq hacks are basically a resistor (and a jumper selection) to > drive sync over green, and a homebrew PROM to skew the VESA > frequencies for several video and text modes. Hmmm, interesting. Photon also makes fixed-freq. boards, and I was tempted to get one for an old SuperMac monitor I have. I also once attempted to fix a batch of Moniterm monitors that had various problems, and the one board I found to use with them in Windows was a Vermont Microsystems model that cost way too much to begin with, and is now no longer made. There was also no driver later than Windows 3.1, so my dad has it now since he still has a slow 486. Anyhow, I thought Photon's boards were probably better than Mirage's, I forget why. They are at www.photonweb.com I think, but I can't seem to get there at the moment. > It works, but Mirage hasn't been too helpful with getting a > variety of XFree86 modelines, even though they claim to support Linux Darn, shame on them. > and XFree86. They give out _one_ modeline for 1280 x 1024, which they Well at least it works eh? Can you at least upgrade the VRAM to get more colors, or did you want low-res for some other reason? > swiped from the XFree86 distribution in 'Monitors.txt'. For Windows > and Dos, they give out a video driver which seems to work just fine. > It will even display 320x200 full screen (Quake works great in DOS!), > and boots to a functional 80x24 col text mode. How the hell do they > do this? > > Here is how I'm calculating my video modes based in the > XFree86VideoModes HOWTO (found in every Redhat 5 distribution): You understood what they said, that your horizontal line includes enough "dots" to allow time for the gun to sweep back to the beginning of the next line? So to get 1280 dots across, you might need to allow 1350-1400ish dot-clock-periods per line (or maybe even more). (dots/sec) / (dots/line) = lines/sec = lines/frame * frames/sec For example: if you want 1024 lines, allow around 1150 total lines (to allow time to sweep back to top-left between frames); so 1150 lines/frame * 72 frames/sec = (x dots/sec) / (1350 dots/line) now solve for x to get the dot clock, and to double check the formula, make sure that all the units cancel out. x dots/sec = 1150 lines/frame * 72 frames/sec * 1350 dots/line yep, line / line * frame / frame * dots / sec = dots / sec and you need a dot clock of 111,780,000 dots/sec > > Dot Clock Per Second > Total Horizontal Pixels Per Line = -------------------------- > Horizontal Scanning Rate This is right, dots / line * line / sec = dots/sec > > Since my refresh rate must be at 72hz to sync with the HP1097C: > > Dot Clock > Refresh Rate = ------------------------------------------------- > Horizontal Frame Length * Vertical Frame Length frames / sec = (dots / sec) / (dots / line * lines / frame) = (dots / sec) / (dots / frame) = frames / sec yep > > So, it's really more constructive to think of this as how many > pixels _total_ do I need to display in order to get a 72 hz vertical > scan rate with any arbitrary dot clock? In this case I need > > Dot Clock > Total Pixels Per Frame (HFLxVFL) = ------------- > Refresh Rate You did algebra on above, correct > > Since I know my Horizontal Pixels Per Line, I can use this to > determine the number of vertical lines which will support a 72 hz > refresh rate.... hmmm, this is where things get sticky. We'll start > with a DCL of 10Mhz... Why? That is too slow a dot clock to be useful. You should work backwards - figure out what resolution you want, find the corresponding dot clock, pick the closest supported dot clock to the one you calculated, and then calculate forward again to figure out what resolution you can actually get. You can also play with the blanking intervals, because the monitor has a minimum time that it takes for the gun to scan back to the beginning of the next line (or next frame), but no maximum time. If your supported dot clock is a little too slow, you can waste the time in the blanking interval to keep a standard resolution, or else optimize the resolution to use up all the available time/line. But with a fixed frequency monitor, you must also keep the horizontal and vertical scan rates in "range" - however wide that happens to be. So really, with those two constraints plus your quantized available dot clocks, that's why "fixed frequency" also means "fixed resolution". If the monitor was designed for 1280 x 1024, the card must output about that many dots in each frame and at the correct frame rate. You could output half the dots per line, and also halve the dot clock, and halve all the other values (front porch, back porch, vertical blanking interval, etc.) but if you tried to also cut the vertical resolution in half, you'd violate the line rate constraint. So as you say below, line doubling makes a lot of sense; you could simulate 640 x 480 on a 1280 x 960 screen by halving the dot clock and line-doubling each line. Text mode can be simulated by custom programming on the graphics chip, so that it actually produces dot data at 640 x 480. Keep in mind the monitor will have "total bandwidth" limitations too - it might not be able to accept too fast a dot clock even if you don't exceed the horizontal scan rate or frame rate. <second message> > BTW: no one responded to this message, so I guess no one I'm sorry, I must have missed it. Normally that subject would catch my eye. :-) > knew the answer. I received a responce to a USENET post about > this and thought there might be some interest in the group. > The VGA spec supports 'doublescan' mode for low resolution > compatability with CGA apps. This essentially forces the card Cool, makes sense, I didn't know that was a standard. I used to have a DOS CGA simulator for the Hercules card, several years ago, that must have worked this way also; simulating 640 x 200 on a 720 x 400-something display. The displayable area was smaller too, so evidently they only used 640 of the available 720 dots across. It was very useful for playing old CGA games on my mono card anyhow. > to draw each horizontal line twice, thus doubling the refresh > rate (or your vertical resolution in half at the same refresh > rate) at any arbitrary horizontal scan rate. Well, some > chipsets (like the 968, Matrox Millenium, and most ATI > chipsets), allow for tripplescanning which does exactly what > one would expect... it scans each horizontal line three times > before skipping down to the next line, thus allowing one to > drop down to a third of the vertical resolution at the same > refresh rate (same horizontal rate always, of course). Hmmm, so 1024 / 3 = 341, 960 / 3 = 320, I don't see how that would be very useful since there aren't many (any?) modes that have vertical res. in the 320-340ish range. Maybe it could be stretched a little to get 640 x 400. Quad-scan would be useful for doing 320 x 200, or they could just be wasteful with memory and do 4 pixels in VRAM for every pixel and get 640 x 400 out of it. 800 x 600 would just be plain nasty. :-) > > OK. XFree86 and SVGAlib don't support tripplescan mode, but > they do support doublescan mode because it's part of the VGA > spec. Tripplescan is vendor specific, and so thus is enabled > in different ways for each chipset. I'm attempting to hack > svgalib to support tripplescan for the S3/968... waiting for XFree you mean, or svgalib? > the 968 docs to arrive so I can find the register and register > values to set for my adapter. The rest seems fairly easy, just > hack in parsing for 'tripplescan' on the modeline and such. > > Why does this matter to you? Well, if you have an Hitachi > HM-4119, HP1097C, or somesuch fixed freq monitor, getting it to > work under Linux is pretty easy once you know the trick. Why > buy a $1500 monitor when you've got a perfectly fine one > sitting on your VaxStation 3100? Well, for the purposes of > this list, why not just use the 3100 as the xterm... but that > defeats the purpose of this message. ;-) Yep, I've been wanting to do this for years. I did it briefly with that Vermont card (and kept the hercules card also, for text mode, because the Vermont card made no attempt to support any standard modes at all; it was really intended to be a secondary display for CAD) but couldn't do any newer Windows or X with it. It also had an interesting high-level proprietary command language for drawing the primitives; I got the impression from its sketchy docs that you could actually send textual commands to its I/O port and it would interpret them in real-time. That and being an ISA card made it kindof slow. And it only had enough VRAM to do 16 colors, and Vermont wanted an arm and a leg to upgrade to 256 colors. My SuperMac monitor worked fine with my ATI All-in-Wonder, but only in Windows 95, for which there is a nice driver that lets you tweak every parameter. Tweaking similarly might be possible, if harder, in X, but I haven't tried it yet. Unfortunately the Win95 ATI driver won't tell me the numbers to plug into X modelines; I wish it would, but there are just these arrow buttons on the screen to adjust position, size, etc. My experience has been, if you are in the ballpark and the monitor is behaving itself, you can tweak it a little bit to adjust size and position; but then all of a sudden it will just go bonkers, and to get back to where you were right before that, you have to overshoot and then edge your way back (not moving the mouse, because you can't see the on-screen button anymore!) So reproducing the same results with xvidtune's tricky interface would be difficult. Someday, maybe somebody will produce a video card with a video-scaling chip built-in, so that you can multiply dots by something other than a whole number. This is the sort of thing that's already being done for LCD video projectors, video digitizers that can put the image into an arbitrarily-sized window (like my All-in-Wonder), the digital HDTVs now being designed, and maybe even some of the better laptop displays. I don't see why if they can do it for TV input they can't do it on the output signal as well. As the dot clock asks for each output dot, the chip would just have to take into account the colors of the adjacent dots, and blend smoothly; so to avoid having to read VRAM at, say, 9x dot clock, it would have to have some fast registers to store the values of the adjacent dots temporarily, and it could then read VRAM at a mere 3x dot clock. Or, it could store 3 lines in its fast memory and read the line past the next one during each horizontal blanking interval. Maybe the need for fast VRAM is the limiting factor; no, because actually scanning at 1280 x 960 requires 4x the speed of scanning at 640 x 480, whereas simulating 640 x 480 at a dot clock to achieve 1280 x 960 only requires reading VRAM at 3x the rate. So I don't know why this hasn't been done. Maybe Photon does this, I'm not sure. I think I'm going to post this on a newsgroup or two and see if we get any better answers. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud(a)bigfoot.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \_____________________________________________________________

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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AE Z-80 for Apple ][e

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-13 22:57:15 EDT, you write: << naamato(a)merit.edu P.S. Is any of this stuff rare? >> no

28 years, 2 months

1
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neat find

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<today at goodwill I found a Advance Micro Device AM2900 Evaluation & <Learning Kit in the it's box (very nice design on it) with one worksheet <the unit was only $5. I must be looking in all the wrong places. That's only my list for SBCs, next time. Allison

28 years, 2 months

5
6
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Reliability of floppy drives

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality" drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

4
3
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Collecting Philosophy, was Re: Asshole

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 13, 23:19, Tony Duell wrote: > Seriously, I think you can justtify owning several of the same machine if > the machines have expansion slots (like the Apple ][ or the PDP11) and > you've got a lot of cards you want to play with. I'm pretty sure I've got > far too many unibus cards (even with DB11 bus repeaters) for a single > machine. And I wonder how useful 2 DX11's (I do mean DX11, not RX11) are > on the same machine. Isn't a DX11 an IBM channel interface? Originally a big cabinet with a lot of flip chips and lamps? I've seen two, working. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Model 1 mods (was Re: obnoxious subject header)

by bwit＠pobox.com

> Wasn't there a Dennis Kitz speedup mod published in an old > 80 Micro article? He wrote a _bunch_ of articles containing > useful mods to the model 1... really an amazing guy. I wonder > what happened to him. Dennis is alive and well and may be contacted at bathory(a)maltedmedia.com.

28 years, 2 months

1
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VAX 11/750 available

by sethm＠loomcom.com

Hello everyone, Just a quick "Rescue Needed" announcement. There is a VAX 11/750 available at WeirdStuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale, CA. Most of you Bay Area classic computer enthusiasts probably know where this place is. If not, visit http://www.weirdstuff.com/. The 11/750 doesn't have any paripherals, nor any disk, but it does appear to be fully populated with cards. Be the first one on your block to own a classic, proper VAX! Anyway, it's up for auction there. If I had infinite space and lots of time, I'd go get it myself, but I don't :) -Seth

28 years, 2 months

1
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Collecting Philosophy, was Re: Asshole

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Even if I had the room and time to pick up every machine that was headed for the dump, what can I do with several dozen PC clones? Same goes for other systems. It's interesting to have maybe a couple, but not the "8 PDP 11/34, 22 Atari ST, 15 Apple ][" I hear. >Well, not all of us have the time to work on every single system we get >our hands on. There are only so many hours in the day left over after >life stuff (ie. job, pets, family...) and this is just a side hobby for >me. My concern first is to at least get the computers to prevent them >from being disposed of and worry about getting them running later. > >> I collect for many reasons, amongst them : >> 1) The fun and mental challenge of restoring/repairing them. Fault >> finding can be interesting, you know > >I do it for the joy of being surrounded by such an ecclectic and expansive >collection of computers that span the innovation of two decades. When I >make enough money to relax for a couple months, I'll have fun restoring >and repairing them. > >> 2) Finding out what the machines I grew up dreaming of were really like. >> And the machines that came before them. I could never afford them when >> new, now I can play with them > >Same here. > >> 4) Tracing the history of certain features. To take a trivial example, >> IOBYTE at location 3 on CP/M can be traced back to the Intellec MCS8i. It >> was at location 3 on that machine (with the same format of 4 2-bit >> fields) as locations 0-2 were reserved for the reset jump instruction, so >> this was the first free RAM location. > >This is not only fun, but in my view, relevant. These are the sorts of >tidbits that, in my nerdy opion, would make a fascinating book: where all >the standards came from. > >> I won't claim I run all my 150+ machines all the time. I have a few that >> I run quite often (the PDP11/45, the PDP8/e, the PERQ 2, a TRS-80 M4, >> this PC/AT, etc). Others I only run from time to time when I need them. >> But I do try to have all my machines operational if at all possible. > >That's commendable, but there's not a lot of need on my end to have >everything running. There's a desire, but not a need. When my collection >goes on display, it will be desirable to have at least one of everything >in the collection working with usable software so that people studying the >artifact can get a better understanding of it. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 04/08/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<backplane. It's missing box/PSU and floppy, though, so it's not terribl <functional ATM. I'm sure someone has built something even smaller with <Falcon or similar. I've seen a 11/23, RQDX3, 512k ram, dlv11j(4 serial) and a mrv11 in a custom box using a RX50 and a 3.5"MFM 40meg disk that was quite small! The backplane was 6 dual slots. Smaller than than a PC minitower. Qbus PDP-11 systems can be quite small if non dec boxes are used. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, the PDT 11/150 ran quite well once they came out. I ran one fo <three years under RT11 with FB and multiterminal support. It's biggest <problem was comm overruns/underruns because the I/O was all handled by a <8080 (or was it an 8085). The 11/130 used DECtapes and the 11/110 was <downloaded. It used an 8085, and the manual stated the limits of the serial ports. However if the correct handshake was used it could run pretty fast. <The biggest problem with the PDT was the price, the fact it was not <easily expandable by third parties (no Qbus) and slow. Such was the ways of DEC at the time. Then again what would be added? <DEC repeated some of the same mistakes in the PC line in the 80's. (no <QBUS on the Pro, special i/o drivers, non-standard OS version). The pro used a better form factor than Qbus, otherwise it would have been huge. If you needed Q there was always the ba11 series boxen. POS on the other hand was strange. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<There was a small PDP-11 about the size of a MicroVax 2000. It was <called the PDT. It had an 11/03 CPU, 64KB, 8" floppy (RX01), and some It was about twice the size of the VS2000. I have one. As to static sensitivity mine is quite good and most I know of didn't have a heat problem. What I have encounterd was system with the fans replaced with quieter low volume fans that didn't do the job. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
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Donzelli

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Does anyone know William Donzelli's e-mail address? Donzelli, are you out there? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Asshole

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I am much more bothered by conmans (read my other reply here). I collect for >the historical inportance and for the history of design of old electronics and >for what they meant in the lives of millions of persons. I don't even care if >something is working or not. It is going to end up behing glass anyway. I I find you sick. Very sick. Keep computers functional, working, cosmetics should come second. I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE somewhere for you. >can't possibly USE the more than 140 historical computer I have in my YES YOU COULD. >collection and don't even switch them on. I don't collect them for making them >work but to display them and help to teach children and people about their >importance in the hsitory of humanity. The appearance is (nearly) everything >to me and so a mumeric keypad where it should not be is a GREAT bother to me. So what the hell are you bitching about? You got what you asked for, and now, it's not a great bother to you. So what the %$&( if it's got a numeric keypad? It's not a GREAT bother to you, but you've been a GREAT bother to Cord and everyone else on the list. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

8
10
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Do your homework!

by peacock＠simconv.com

> I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? There was a small PDP-11 about the size of a MicroVax 2000. It was called the PDT. It had an 11/03 CPU, 64KB, 8" floppy (RX01), and some serial ports. RT-11 was the only supported OS as the floppy took a special driver. It was a real lemon, we had a few, proved to be very unreliable as they would constantly overheat. They were also susceptible to static discharge on the case, so they didn't work too well in carpeted offices. Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Do your homework!

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2601 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980413/4d47124f/at…

28 years, 2 months

2
2
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Asshole

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> wrote: >I can't believe that all this is happening and that there are no honest people >in this list that are letting this happen withour saying anything. OK Enrico, you asked for it. I'm going to say something. The recollection I have of what happened (from reading the original flamefest on the list) is that you and Cord were swapping computers, with you expecting a TRS-80 with Level I BASIC. And that is what you got, only when you got it you found that it had a numeric keypad, unlike the original stock TRS-80. So...no, I don't understand what you're so upset about, except that you got something that didn't look like what you expected based on your preconceived notions of what a "TRS-80 with Level I BASIC" should look like. Well, as it happens I don't know whether Radio Shack ever took to manufacturing all Model 1 TRS-80s with numeric keypads after some date, or whether the numeric keypad was included with the Level II BASIC upgrade (don't think so, at least not always), or whether it was available without a Level II BASIC upgrade. So I'd have been surprised by that keypad too, but for all I know it could have come >from the factory like that or been upgraded by its original owner, who wanted to do lots of numeric data entry on a Level I BASIC system. Really I think there's a valuable lesson to be learned here, namely when trading in old computers it's a good idea to do some research and have some idea what the scope of possible configurations is, so that if you are buying you will have some idea what sort of questions to ask to find out just what the seller is selling. Or if you are selling, so you will have some idea of what you are selling. Don't count on the seller knowing what's important to you, or even where what he's got fits in that scope of configurations -- he may not. Even if he's another computer collector and/or familiar with that manufacturer's equipment, he may not know -- the sorts of questions I read (and even some of those I write) tell me that most of us have a lot to learn about these old machines, and none of us know everything about all of them. And even with all that in mind, expect some surprises! For example, a while back I bought a couple of HP 9825s from some guy in Southern California. Looking at the HP Calculator Museum web pages and some of my old HP test/measurement catalogs, I expected that one of them (the 9825B I think) would have a "computer" keyboard with full-travel keys. I didn't bother asking. Surprise, when it arrived both had the older clicky desktop-calculator keyboard of the 9825A. I pointed this out to the seller and he didn't know, though he has seen 9825s with the full-travel keys. Maybe it was an A that got field-upgraded to a B? We don't know, and I didn't really see any point in getting bent out of shape about it -- I got what I wanted, learned something, and now I have a good excuse to get another one! -Frank McConnell

28 years, 2 months

10
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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sorry, but this seems crazy to me. Was Ethernet invented in 1973? Was it 10MBps then? Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

7
6
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Do your homework!

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: >Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I think >I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? The Terak main unit is about 18" x 12" x 8" DxWxH, the disk drive is the same form but about 5 1/2" tall. I remember DEC's MiniMINC, a white 11/03-ish machine roughly the same size as the Terak setup. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Do your homework!

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 13, 0:06, Allison J Parent wrote: > <Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I thin > <I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? > > I have an 11/23, 256k ram, dlv11j and MRV11 in a ba11va shoebox. > The floppy (RX02) is about 4 times the volume of the CPU! General Robotics made a single 8" RX02-compatible floppy in a box barely bigger than the drive itself, complete with carrying handle. A company I once worked for had one for field servoids. AFAIR it was a standard SA800 50-pin interface to connect to their own dual-height RXV controller. I've got an 11/03 (M7270) with MXV11-A and a Baydel dual-height F311 (like an RXV11, but interfaces to SA800 drives) with a 4-slot dual-width (not quad) backplane. It's missing box/PSU and floppy, though, so it's not terribly functional ATM. I'm sure someone has built something even smaller with a Falcon or similar. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

1
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VCF 1.0 Photo Gallery now online

by dastar＠wco.com

The Photo Gallery is now open on the Vintage Computer Festival web page. Photos from the exhibit hall of VCF 1.0 as well as the photos of the unveiling of the prototype Sol 20 by Lee Felsenstein and Bob Marsh are on display. The pictures show what VCF 1.0 was like and give you an indicator of what to expect at VCF2. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 04/13/98]

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Reliability of floppy drives

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-12 19:13:50 EDT, you write: << Max Eskin wrote: > I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not > to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be > unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality" > drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? >> grrr, i hate 3.5 disks! they seem unreliable. i have software on old 5.25 disks that have lasted longer than data on 1.44 floppies. could it be the density of the data on the disk that makes them unreliable? just a guess. david

28 years, 2 months

3
2
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NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> I have a NOS SwTPc 6800 MP-A CPU board. This was the first SS-50 OK, I give up. What is the worls is NOS?

28 years, 2 months

4
3
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Modem for Apple ][gs?

by archive＠navix.net

Greets: I have a customer that is looking for a modem for his Apple ][gs. Admittadly, I don't know a whole lot about this area and some posts in the newsgroups haven't turned up much either. Anyway, I am wondering if some of you Apple experts could give me some more information on the types of modems available for the GS and any other pertinent information... such as, what type of interface is needed, software to use on the GS (terminal, etc.) and anything else you feel like throwing in. Also, I have several old Hayes 2400 baud external modems.... would these be compatible with the Apple ][gs? What else would I need to get this modem setup on that system? Any help in getting this guy set up would be appreciated. Sincerely, CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\|

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I thin <I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? I have an 11/23, 256k ram, dlv11j and MRV11 in a ba11va shoebox. that's a 11x13x4 inch box with 4 dual slots. I use it with a tu58 dectape in a box of the same size small and light system running rt11. Often the same box can be found with a 11/2, two MXV11 nultifunction cards and a RX02 controller. The floppy (RX02) is about 4 times the volume of the CPU! Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
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A%%****<---drop this too!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Please everyone, do not echo that nasty subject line. <IIRC, the Tandy modifications were the L2 basic board, 16K RAM, Numeric <keypad, and the lower case mod. All others were 3rd party. I could make a <slight case that 3rd party mods are slightly less original, but I'm not <going to press the point. I don't think Tandy ever offered a *2 speedup. The *2 speed up was not RS, however the concession was that machine modified with those in for repair would be serviced at normal rates if the mod was unrelated to the problem. If a new logic was required do to extensive damage the pricing was different (expensive). <They may well have offered various fixes to the cassette interface - I <don't know. They did! The best one was a little board with a 4040/4001 on it. <There were many 3rd party mods. I've seen a M1 with 48K RAM in the <keyboard unit. I've even seen one (much hacked) power up with a CASS? <prompt. Yes, it was running M3 BASIC. there were some rally nice mods too. Allison

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Wanted: Okimate 20 IBM interface

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Wanted: I have an Okidata Okimate 20 that presently has a Commodore "plug-n-print" interface in it and I'm in need of the IBM/Centronics "plug-n-print" interface for it. If someone has an IBM fitted Oki 20 but wants a Commodore interface (not likely) I'd like to evenly swap interfaces or if someone has just an interface for it for IBM I'd like to trade them something or buy it directly. Anyone? I need this for use with my portable PS/2 P70 when I go on jobs or such and need to print things of importance. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Collecting Philosophy, was @##****

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Hmmm... No flmes intended (and I hope we can agree to differ on this), Same here. Of the 25+ machines in my room all are operable at a moments notice some requiring being pluged in or a terminal plugged in. <but I really can't see the point in collecting non-working computers _and <keeping them that way_. Sure I get a lot of non-working machines, but the <first thing I do is attempt to find a technical manual or scheamatic and <repair them. Working machines are a lot more interesting. The case Same here. Though I do have some that while now are working and stored SBCs are less interesting to others. But a non-working system when aquired is always tested, fixed if possible then I decide if I care to have it in a location for easy use and access. If not I tend to pull it out and periodically run it to insure it stays operable. <I collect for many reasons, amongst them : < <1) The fun and mental challenge of restoring/repairing them. Fault <finding can be interesting, you know Same here, good mental exercise and what I learn can help others. <2) Finding out what the machines I grew up dreaming of were really like. <And the machines that came before them. I could never afford them when <new, now I can play with them Big time! Some were way out of my reach back when. <3) Doing things that you can't do on a modern machine. Many classics, <even minicomputers nd workstations are simple enough to understand <completely. It's fun to rewrite microcode. It's fun to trace data through <an ALU into the registers using a logic probe and 'scope. It's fun to <debug a floppy controller at gate level. And it's fun to boot a machine <from paper tape after toggling in the bootstrap from the panel I'll add that some of my older machines are working hardware in that they support a project or run software that I've not duplicated on the PC for performance or usability. <4) Tracing the history of certain features. To take a trivial example, <IOBYTE at location 3 on CP/M can be traced back to the Intellec MCS8i. It <was at location 3 on that machine (with the same format of 4 2-bit <fields) as locations 0-2 were reserved for the reset jump instruction, so <this was the first free RAM location. Or interfaces like SCSI when it was SASI. Or 8" floppies. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Reliability of floppy drives

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not <to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be <unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality" <drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? It's something your doing as I've found 3.5" media to be about as reliable as I can ask for meaning they are amoung the best. Then again I also have 20year old 8" media that's still in use. There is no such thing as industrial strength drives or media. Heat and dirt are the biggest killers. All my systems use sony or teac drive as they are a bit better constructed and were available. However I ahve a 19$ drive that has been in use for about five years and refuses to quit! Im not timid about blowing out the dust and cleaning vents either! Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Asshole <- Solution

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-12 15:33:58 EDT, you write: << It seems to me that there is a Historical solution for this problem, that I gather worked very well in the far distant past. Enrico has become SUCH a pain, and it seems like most of the traffic of late is a result of his insistence not to let this drop. While he may or may not have a valid problem, I no longer care, and based on the way he's acting I would suspect the problem is on his end. Because of all of this I'd like to propose a rather drastic solution >> I'm tired of hearing him whine like a little kindergartner. Welcome to my killfile, Enrico! *PLONK* Lets get back to topic!

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Mail filters

by djenner＠halcyon.com

Just another reminder that many email programs have killfiles and mail filters. Every time there is a spate of off-topic flaming or otherwise unnecessary verbage in this list, my list of mail filters grows a little longer. I now get almost no messages with profanity. It's also possible to filter out any individual who goes over the line in your estimation. I think this preferable to having additional "private lists". Of course, individuals can have correspondence with whomever they wish at any time, using personal mailing lists. Dave

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Please -- Knock it off!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

I'm only going to say this once. I will make no replies to this post outside of private E-mail, and I will accept no arguments from those involved in the current flame-war that even HINT at attempted justification for their cluttering of the list. I have changed receipt of CLASSICCMP to 'ack' (non-digest) on my end so that I may easily killfile/filter the entire childish flame-war polluting this list, which the perpetrators of seem unwilling to take to private E-mail as should have happened when the thing first lit up. I am tired of reading about who's right, who's wrong, who's a con-artist and who's not, and who's doing what to whom and for how much. I am here for one purpose; to share knowledge of old hardware and software, specifically DECish stuff. Others, I'm going to assume, are here for the purpose of sharing knowledge of the systems they have interest in. I do not believe that anyone is here to share a flame-war. If the flame-war traffic continues in the form of list postings, I will begin filtering by author rather than by subject thread. This could cause me to miss something I value, or to fail to respond to a question that I could answer, but at this point I feel that risk is justified. Read my typing. TAKE YOUR STUPID FLAME-WAR TO E-MAIL! PLEASE! Thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

PDP11 MMU / assembly language tutorial -- THANK YOU!

by maynard＠jmg.com

Folks, I'm still digesting all the responces from Allison, Tony, and Pete... but I wanted to thank you guys for satiating my curiosity. I'm clueless, but not thankless. :-) --jmg

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites, little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data intact. Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible? Feasable? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

7
8
0 0

Asshole<---drop this too!

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>First stop it. Second, if you didn't understand it I believe the comment >was sarcastic IE: we could find you a trs-80 case but since you've been >such a pain it has become highly unlikely. Kind of right. I was saying that if it was REALLY NEEDED and you couldn't ignore a row of 5x4 keys or so on your TRS-80, that there's probably someone who has either a spare case, or a will to trade their keypad-less TRS for yours. >There was no offer to supply one and there was no agreement save for you >trying to instigate one. Exactly. However, seeing as it will make a fellow collector happy, should I stumble across the model you mention, I'll tell you, and probably pay for half or more of the shipping. >A trs-80 with a keypad (one of the earliest options!) is historically >valid. Also historically valid was lower case mod, 2x processor speed up >and several different ones applied to the cassette read. This is an >athoritive statment as I was in the employ for TANDY from 1976 through >1979 and did consulting for another year after that. Exactly. For instance, I'm getting a A2+ from Jeff Kaneko. At first, I just knew that I was getting a II+. That was it. Since then, I've been deligeted to find that it's 64K, has a DA/AD converter, serial cards, a Pocket Rocket language card, etc. installed. I asked for an Apple II+. I'm getting one. Sometimes, it's better than what you wanted, sometimes it's worse, sometimes it's just different. >If you say you wanted the "first trs80" you should have specified one >that must have the 170069A PWB, and no mods/option installed. That >would have gotten you a 4k L1 machine in the first production series >(under serial number 20,000 or so). You would have had to clarify if >serial number greater than 0 or 1 was acceptable. Your lack of >knowledge of RADIO SHACK computers and how they were sold from >introduction is your loss. As well as your apparant lack of flexability, and poor eMail writing skills. In any case, let us "BAD PEOPLE" who "don't care if we've got a conman on our hands" be bad people with a conman on our hands and STOP BITCHING ABOUT IT!!! Listen, you didn't get what you wanted. You did get what you asked for. Cord's been on this list a LOT longer than you have. If we annoy you, then unsubscribe. END OF STORY. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

3
3
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available items for trade

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Available for trade: I have two computer memories hard disks of unknown origins. they are available as the processors on them are 6803s and 6522s in sockets and good for 6800 hacking. These are 1983-85 vintage. Also available for trade: Several copies of CP/M-80 2.2 manuals The programmers CP/M handbook (Osborne Associates, Andy Johnson-laird) -- next to cpm alteration guide a must have for bios design. -- mix of other DRI cpm manuals (sid, ddt, mac...), *star manauls (Wordstar, calcstar...), DbaseII and more. Roughly 33 boxes of 8" disks with CP/M CPMUG and SIGM volumes on them. This is a major cache of CPM software only exceeded by what on the WC cdrom. Two Visual 1050s, local only too heavy to ship monitor safely. These are CP/M-3 z80 systems with a 6502 doing the video (with graphics) in a pizza box case, two 5.25 floppies, provisions for hard disk and matching monitor and keyboard. I may be able to configure one 10mb hard disk. Disks and docs (including slipcase manuals) for them as well. Two 8" disks in cases(power supply) sa800s both working, to heavy to ship safely (opinion). One CCS 2200 s100 system (CCS cpu, discus controller, CCS floppy controller, CCS 4 port serial) and manuals. Circa 1980, shippable at high cost. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Asshole <- Solution

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Enrico has become SUCH a pain, and it seems like most of the traffic of <late is a result of his insistence not to let this drop. While he may o <may not have a valid problem, I no longer care, and based on the way he' <acting I would suspect the problem is on his end. Because of all of thi <I'd like to propose a rather drastic solution < <Shun Him! (in other words ignore him totally) This to me is a rehash of the dealing across the pond discussion from some 3-4 months ago. At the time I was one to say that shipping across the pond was more aggravation than it was worth even if there was profit in it. This is an example of why. Doing trades and shipping internationally are still enough of a annoyance >from my point of view to avoid them. Enrico's further galvanized me on that. Shipping is never as trivial as addressing a box and hoping it gets there and the cost is never trivial, at least to me. So when I do it I feel I should not be at risk doing it. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Asshole

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I promise that we CAN. I didn't say anything about willing to. However, should I come across one, you'll be the first to know. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, April 12, 1998 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Asshole >Is this a promise? > >enrico > >Hotze wrote: > I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE >> somewhere for you. > >> Tim D. Hotze > >-- >======================================================== >Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK >Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) >please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> >======================================================== > >

28 years, 2 months

3
4
0 0

NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> <> I have a NOS SwTPc 6800 MP-A CPU board. This was the first SS-50 <> <> OK, I give up. What is the worls is NOS? < <I think he means "New Old Stock". It's just lingo for something out of <production, but still in new, never-used condition. Makes more sense than Network Operating System NOS and 6800 in he same breath! ;-) Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Asshole<---drop this too!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> <You did not say CAN but you said COULD and that, in my bad understanding <the English language, is an offer. But I am not going to argue about that <I gladly accept your kind offer now. Thank you. Hoping to hear from you s Enrico, First stop it. Second, if you didn't understand it I believe the comment was sarcastic IE: we could find you a trs-80 case but since you've been such a pain it has become highly unlikely. There was no offer to supply one and there was no agreement save for you trying to instigate one. A trs-80 with a keypad (one of the earliest options!) is historically valid. Also historically valid was lower case mod, 2x processor speed up and several different ones applied to the cassette read. This is an athoritive statment as I was in the employ for TANDY from 1976 through 1979 and did consulting for another year after that. If you say you wanted the "first trs80" you should have specified one that must have the 170069A PWB, and no mods/option installed. That would have gotten you a 4k L1 machine in the first production series (under serial number 20,000 or so). You would have had to clarify if serial number greater than 0 or 1 was acceptable. Your lack of knowledge of RADIO SHACK computers and how they were sold from introduction is your loss. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Asshole

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-12 07:24:27 EDT, you write: << >Hotze wrote: > I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE >> somewhere for you. > >> Tim D. Hotze >> well, i have a model 1 with a keypad that i could take a hacksaw to... david

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

CP/M for free...

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Just wanted to let everyone know that Caldera, which now owns all Digital Research software, has made CP/M freely available! I discovered this by accident when I went to download OpenDOS. Check it out at: http://www.caldera.com/dos/html/legacyindex.html They have a link to an unofficial CP/M page with tons of other software. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 2 months

7
6
0 0

NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

>> From: "Jeff Kaneko" <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com >> >> Guys: >> >> Afer looking at a number of responses, Uncle Roger's position >> seems the most logical to me (besides, one other person suggested >> this also). I think I'll buy that parts to build this, and just keep >> it until needed. >> >> Building it won't be a priority, though. The MP-A wasn't exactly the >> best SS-50 CPU available. I have a NOS Thomas Instruments Super CPU, >> that I've wanted to build for years. Compared with other S-50 boards >> of that era, it had alot of cool features. I am working on getting a >> couple of scarce parts for its companion video board. >> >> Jeff From: Bill Yakowenko <yakowenk(a)cs.unc.edu> >One other thing, before soldering stuff onto that board, make a copy >of it. (Do photocopiers make decent prints of bare boards?) Once >a board has chips soldered onto it, it can be a pain to figure out >which things connect to what. Having a bare-board print could help >a lot in reverse-engineering the schematic (although I suspect there >are still MP-A schematics to be had out there). And who knows, you >might someday want to clone that board. > > Cheers, > Bill. There are not only schematics, but assembly instructions and a three color print showing the top traces in red, bottom traces in blue, and component placement in black. I picked an MP-Ab bare board and documentation at a hamfest a long time ago and never used it having gone with Percom's SBC/9 CPU board and Percom's Electric Window video board. If anybody absolutely needs copies of the docs, then I will see what I can do. Mike

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:06:32 +0300, "Hotze" <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> wrote: >>Yeah, but could such a thing be done on Linux/UNIX OS's? I'm guessing that {snip} I'm sure that Microsoft used NT for their implementation, but aren't there Un*x-based NNTP servers available?? I think that there is a post in today's digest about it. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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my objection to recent postings

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Sometimes advertising annoys me too. But when I think about it, maybe I'd rather have those ads than not. Someday maybe I'll get something I want from one of them if prices stay within reach. More recently, I've created a related dillemna of my own. I've been talking with a recycler, trying to convince him to offer whole boards or computers for sale, rather than just a few chips that he pulls from them. In doing so, I pointed out that an Altair sold for so much money recently. Of course, I also pointed out that that particular sale may have been a fluke, and he shouldn't necessarily expect that. The dillemna is this: these are exactly the kind of guys that will annoy me most. They have no inherent interest in preserving old machinery, and would have no remorse in melting down an Altair for twenty-three cents worth of metal. They will more than happy to behave as kidnappers, demanding ransom with rare artifacts at stake, happily driving prices up as high as they can. Of course, the obvious reply is about free-market economics, prices adjusting to meet demand, and all that. What I'm thinking is, maybe we should be glad that there is not yet a well-entrenched market for this old stuff, with guide-books establishing fair pricing and such. When that happens, scarcity will force all the old machines into the hands of rich know-nothing collectors, and out of the reach of the hackers who would cherish them for what they are. But how do we discourage that from happening, while at the same time trying to divert machinery from the acid-bath? The only argument that recyclers seem likely to listen to is about making money. But each time that argument gets used, it nudges us toward the day when all of our old computers lie decaying in display cabinets of the affluent, rather than living and working happily in our own basements. Ideas? Bill.

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s

by fauradon＠pclink.com

If you want it bad enough everything is possible. I do belive it is our duty to perform these tasks. An x1541 cable allows you to connect a commodore disk drive to a PC why not make it the other way around and use the PC as a disk drive "server" for the C64, VIC20 and C128? And that is only one thought. On a wall at Disney world or is that Epcot center (in the ) there is an inscription that says "If you can dream it, you can build it". The PC bus is so simple that even custom interface for the really wacky stuff can be built for a few $. I think Jameco still sells prototype boards for the ISA bus. Francois PS: I know this comes up regularly but... I'm changing ISPs What is the best way to deal with the address change? ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon -----Original Message----- From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 6:45 PM Subject: Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s > >WIREHEAD'S CRAZY THOUGHT FOR THE DAY > >Using old 386 and 486 computers and their parallel ports to replace >missing peripherals from true retrocomputing systems. Hmmm... > >I wonder if a 386, for example, with a properly programmed parallel port >could emulate...say...a disk drive with a particular interface that you >can't find anymore. > >Interesting thought? > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >

28 years, 2 months

5
6
0 0

BYTE Magazine Master Index?

by engine＠chac.org

At 01:51 4/12/98 -0500, Doug of Yowza wrote: >This was the only hit I got when looking for information about a portable >called the "Agilis System". Does anybody know if this system was actually >produced -- I can't find anything about it beyond the BYTE article (Aug >1989). If we're talking about the thing that was a bunch of wedge-shaped pieces that latched together, there were prototypes -- and I saw one -- but there were no production computers AFAIK. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I seem to remember early Ethernet interface VAX quad cards < being around 1.5Mbps... not sure if it was think ether, vampire < tap stuff... This would have been before ethernet was turned < into a 'standard.' One guy I know has one of these hanging < from his wall along with some physical core for a PDP 11/44. I < was too young to have used to implemented this stuff, so I < can't claim to have actually _used_ such hardware. 802.. eithernet was always 10mbit/s. The 1.5mhz stuff was arcnet. They are similar in that they are both bus topology using CSMA/CD arbitration. Eithernet was a colaboration of Digital Eguipment corp, Intel and Xerox and was in the '70s called DIX eithernet. Allison

28 years, 2 months

6
7
0 0

conman

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

This is NOT a private matter. I think it is my duty to warn others that there is a conman around. Regards enrico Russ Blakeman wrote: > Even though you live in the UK you're obviously not British, otherwise one small crack > at the buy would have been enough and you would have learned by your mistake. Isn't > this babbling enough already? Even if you got screwed, be a man and fac the fact that > from now on you need to be more careful. Drop the nasties and get onto enjoying your > computers. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ # 1714857 > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ========================================================

28 years, 2 months

7
6
0 0

DECMate

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Could someone tell me the URL of the PDP 8/DECmate archive? I keep losing it ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

One other thing, before soldering stuff onto that board, make a copy of it. (Do photocopiers make decent prints of bare boards?) Once a board has chips soldered onto it, it can be a pain to figure out which things connect to what. Having a bare-board print could help a lot in reverse-engineering the schematic (although I suspect there are still MP-A schematics to be had out there). And who knows, you might someday want to clone that board. Cheers, Bill. ] From: "Jeff Kaneko" <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com> ] ] Guys: ] ] Afer looking at a number of responses, Uncle Roger's position ] seems the most logical to me (besides, one other person suggested ] this also). I think I'll buy that parts to build this, and just keep ] it until needed. ] ] Building it won't be a priority, though. The MP-A wasn't exactly the ] best SS-50 CPU available. I have a NOS Thomas Instruments Super CPU, ] that I've wanted to build for years. Compared with other S-50 boards ] of that era, it had alot of cool features. I am working on getting a ] couple of scarce parts for its companion video board. ] ] Jeff

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

i387's

by afritz＠iname.com

I realize that this may not quite reach the 10year mark, but not many people deal with even this old of hardware. (Is there a group out there for "obsolete" yet non-yet-classic hardware?) I need to find somewhere to get many i387 chips. (I currently need about 15 to 20 of them.) Anyone know the best place to start looking? Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz(a)iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ----------

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 23:08, Tony Duell wrote: > > Some versions and OS vaiations allowed a 2KW IO space. I've run RT-11 > > that way. > > Yep, you're right. The standard on Unibus machines was for a 4kW I/O > space. I've seen PDP11/45's and PDP11/34's that were modified for 2kW I/O > space, and, indeed, undone the mods. Some Q-bus machines had 2kW I/O > space as standard, I think. The 11/03 is the most notable one with a 2KW I/O space, but that's a mod, not the standard. Quit commonly done, though, because it was only 16-bit address. > Didn't the 11/24 have an optional unibus map card (the KT24?) I've never > seen one - my 11/24 is a pretty minimal configuration. Yes, I've got one, and it is indeed 22-bit. The problem is, I only have the board set, not the backplane, front panel, etc. I have a spare backplane, and I once inrtended to rewire it and build a panel, but never found enough info (the second slot is wired to the first in a non-standard way, to accomodate the Unibus map connections). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

TRS-80 configs/formally flamefest

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well, as it happens I don't know whether Radio Shack ever took to <manufacturing all Model 1 TRS-80s with numeric keypads after some <date, or whether the numeric keypad was included with the Level II <BASIC upgrade (don't think so, at least not always), or whether it was <available without a Level II BASIC upgrade. So I'd have been <surprised by that keypad too, but for all I know it could have come <from the factory like that or been upgraded by its original owner, who <wanted to do lots of numeric data entry on a Level I BASIC system. Trs-80s early were level-1 basic and 4k ram. Later the ram, LII basic, and even the numeric keypad were offered as options or as factory models (often upgraded in the store!). Later ones had the keypad as standard and 16k as well becuase the 4k rams were actually getting scarce and the demand was for 16k. At any given point in the model one life where are variations in configurations such as three different circuit cards, at least three different keyboards and 5 different rom combinations! Also LII basic was not required to use either the keypad nor the 16k ram. For example L1 basic was either a two rom(or eprom) set or a single rom(eprom). The LII basic was initally a three roms set (eprom) on a seperate pigtail card but later ones used a two rom set that plugged into the base board with out the pigtail set. Also both basics were released using different vendors roms(erproms) that in some cases required a different dip header config or wire jumpers to use them. Even I who worked for tandy on the program was surpriced when I got a LII machine with a single peice extended keyboard (keyboard and numeric in one unit) that was apparently of late manufacture. It was however legit factory. Actually a rather pleasent surprize! Allison

28 years, 2 months

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The PDP11 (at least every PDP11 that I've used) addresses memory by <bytes. OK, a 16 bit word, like an instruction, does have to lie on at an <even address, but the 16 bit address that a program generates (before <translation by the MMU) addresses one of 64K _bytes_ True but, if the memory contained nothig but instructions and addresses 32KW is the limit. Only data or IO is addressed as bytes. This would seem a trivial item it makes a difference in terms of the total number of instructions in any given amount of ram. This is more important when applied to machines with I&D space where the byte addressability can be exploited for buffers and the like. <The I/O page (certainly on Unibus PDP11's) is 4 K _words_ long. Without <an MMU you have 28kW memory, 4kW I/O Some versions and OS vaiations allowed a 2KW IO space. I've run RT-11 that way. <Wit hthe MMU enabled you can have 64k Bytes (32 k Words) of memory mapped <in. In fact you generally don't map the I/O page into user processes, <since you don't want user processes accessing device registers. True but then people ahve to understand that the MMU design seperates user space from system space. <Even if you have the MMU it's a lot simpler if your program fits into 32 <kW (or 28kW if you want access to the I/O space). Otherwise you have to <do something like using a software interrupt to change the MMU to a <different mode. I tried to keep it simple. <Unless page K1-11 of my PDP11/44 printset is wrong, the PDP11/44 has 22 b <addressing. The PDP11/45 does, indeed, only have 18 bit, alas... With the exception of the 11/70 I thought most of the unibus machines were limited to 18bits, for some devices that can be a limit. My interaction with U-bus machines is limited to the 11/70 and a 11/34 all my PDP11 time is with Q-bus (11/03, falcon, 11/23, 11/23A, 11/23b, 11/73) which has sufficient enough variation to track. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Allison, this was private email, but I figure this may be OOPs, though I did check the header as classiccmp...? < like the 11/23 and 11/73 line should run this BSD variant as < well... what I want to know is, did the kernel fit into 64K in < one segment, or did they spread the kernel across segment < bounderies? If so, how? The kernel never fit in 64kb as the pdp11 is word addressed also the MMU operates on 4kb pages. Also the top 4kbytes are IO space. So the idea of the kernel fitting in 64k is not relevent. The real question was did it fit in the 11/44 or 45 who only had 256k (18bit addresses) space. The 11/23 and later Qbus machines were Q22 (4mb address space). The larger space means more available ram that can be used without resorting to swapping (or at least less frequently). Also PDP11s come in two other flavors, those with I&D space and those without. The 11/23 and 11/34 are those without. The 44, 45, 70, 73, 83 and others have I&D which means that Instructions and Data spaces can be seperate doubling the amount of memory available. Added to that is user and system space (memory protection between processes). So it's possible for a PDP11 to actaully address four distinct areas of memory that are non-overlapping and all 64k in size. Practical considerations limit it to less than that but it's nearly so and likely they would overlap as well. < I mean, I could see overlays (in the kernel... blech!), but I < don't remember the 11 supporting long long jumps... and address < value was 16 bits, period. Still, I was never great at 11 True of all segmented address machines. The larger 256k or 4mb space is broken into pages of which up to 8 are mapped into the 16bit address space. To do a long jump what is really done is the cpu remapped the needed page into logical space and does a 16bit jump to that page. The top 4 bits determine what page register is addressed and the contents of that register is appended to the lower 12 bit to form the larger address needed to manage a 4mb space. It takes 8 MMU registers and uses the content of the reg plus the 16bit address to form an address in physical space. < assembly. Could someone here give a good detailed account of < PDP-11 segment mapping support? Could my stack and register < values be retained and follow while moving from segment to < segment? And how the hell did you tell the memory manager you < wanted to pop to another segment, anyway? yes! A detailed discussion would wear out my fingers typing it. Sufficient that it was able to address more than 64k and while different than the 8088 or 286 in both cases the 16 bit address space was extended by argumenting the basic addressing and not extending the basic register set. I'm currently building a system using the z80 cousin called the z280 that can address 16mb of ram and the basic addressing is still 64k argumented by a MMU. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> I seem to remember early Ethernet interface VAX quad cards > being around 1.5Mbps... not sure if it was think ether, vampire > tap stuff... This would have been before ethernet was turned > into a 'standard.' One guy I know has one of these hanging That is a DMC-11. It was an early networking card before Ethernet. It was point to point, 4 wire coax, synchronous serial at something around 1.5Mbps. The DMC-11 had an onboard bit slice processor (might have been a Signetics 8X305, not sure) to handle the packet assembly/disassembly. BTW the KMC-11 was a generic DMC-11 that was user programmable, if you wanted to roll your own protocols. I used a pair of DMC-11s in 1977 to network two PDP-11/34s with an early version of DECnet. I don't recall that DEC had any multi-drop type network interface at that time, except maybe for X.25 PADs.

28 years, 2 months

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Alright, so what we have is the last 4KW used up for stack < space, register mapping, and IO mapping. I would guess the and also boot proms. Default boot on PDP11 is 173000Q. The first page is where all the vectors for the interrupts and traps are. < MMU... do I have it right? Even on a machine with a full < 22bits of address lines on the backplane, like an 11/73, the < CPU still only has a 16bit address space. The faq doesn't make < it terribly clear what happens if you want to open up any < arbitrary window. Think of the 4mb (q22) as linear physical space. At any time the CPU/MMU can allocate contigious or scattered blocks of that space as logical physical space. To do a "long jump" a local jump to a system space is done, memory management code is run and then a jump to the now available code (in logical space) is done. One of the background jobs would be to swap out old segments that are unused to make room for current processes and swap them back if the non current process should wake up. The cpu is always in logical 16bit space but the windows (multiple) can be moved around. An ascii graphic would show the CPU 16bit space as several blocks mapped to multiple blocks scattered in a larger space. The cpu literally never leaves the range of a 16bit space but instead trade out chunks of it for different ones out of an available pool. You never actually jump put of logical space only shuffle what physical memory is part of that space. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Asshole

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

who bloody cares?! people, deal with your own problems; I dont want to hear about them on the list. I have enough to deal with myself! david, back to deleting stupid messages <again> In a message dated 98-04-10 17:47:45 EDT, you write: << Without comment enrico Anonymous wrote: > > Are you a fucking idiot, Limey? Cut the damn crying on the mailing list or you might just open a message one day and have your whole machine become instantly erased...Not a threat, a promise. -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ========================================================

28 years, 2 months

3
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gcc for VAX VMS

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 10, 21:13, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: gcc for VAX VMS > This touches on yesterdays VS2000 discusion. Somehow I got lucky today and > found a pointer to a VAX version of gcc at > ftp://ftp.cco.caltech.edu/pub/rankin/ of course I'm still trying to find a > VAX VMS version of tar and gzip so I can install it. Take a look at http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/freeware/cd.html Near the bottom of the page you'll find the "Tools" section, which includes zip, unzip, gzip, and vmstar. Unzip, gunzip, and vms tar are also on Digital's ftp site. There's a pointer at http://www.digital.com/info/vms-freeware.html or ftp directly from ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/VMS/vmstar-vax.exe Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do something about my MicroVAX? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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weekend additions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

now, back to something on topic... picked up an unenhanced //e system for $10. a bit dirty from no use and a broken shift key, but powers up fine. came with 2 floppies, monchrome display which needs the contrast control cleaned and the ever popular system saver. this one has a hayes micromodem //e whereas the ][+ i got last week had a micromodem II. besides the way they connect to the phone line, are there any major differences? i presume both are still 300bps. david

28 years, 2 months

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 14:11, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > Alright, so what we have is the last 4KW used up for stack > space, register mapping, and IO mapping. I would guess the > first 4KW were used up by the boot prom and monitor, which > leaves about 12KW for an application jump table and > initialization, the rest for memory mapped windows to the > MMU... do I have it right? I'm not sure how you did the arithmetic :-) 4KW (8KB) is used for the "I/O Page" which *includes* the boot PROMs. Stack can be anywhere. > QUOTE: > 0 000 000 001 ddd ddd -- JMP JuMP > > Loads the destination address into the PC, thus effecting an > unconditional jump. > Why is the jump destination address only six bits long? > Jeesh, I hope I'm not asking the obvious.... Because the DDD DDD specifies a register (1 of 8) and address mode (1 of 8) to use. So, you'll often see something like JMP @#0173000, which is represented in two words 000137,173000. In this example, the address mode is 3 (auto-increment deferred, deferred = indirect) and the register to use is R7, which is the PC. So it means "jump to the address given in the word the PC points to". In other words, that's how you code an absolute jump. The reason for the auto-increment is that that mode is the general way of getting immediate data, and in the general case you do need to increment the PC after the read (think about MOV R0, @#0173000, opcode 010037,173000 which stores R0 in 173000). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yeah, but could such a thing be done on Linux/UNIX OS's? I'm guessing that you would need a NT server... and I don't like NT servers. I actually had a NT and Linux server running on the exact same machine, at different times. NT was harder to handle, and had more crashes just when I needed it most, with many requests. Also, I had to reboot it 8 times to get it set up with my video card, but not other cards, altogether, it took 16 reboots, compared to 1 with Linux. My NT 5.0 beta is showing some signs of hope, but I'll need a lot more before trusting NT with a hobby list as important as this one. Just my 0.02 Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini <rcini(a)email.msn.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 4:29 PM Subject: Re: Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Richard A. Cini wrote: > >> Anyway, as part of my Microsoft beta testing, I belong to a small >group >> of "elite" testers. Called ClubWin!, we have a private administrative >> newsgroup that requires a login name and password. Having a ClassicCmp >> newsgroup would provide a threaded conversation capability. We could also >> hang an e-mail gateway off of the news server to provide e-mail messages >for >> those who can't or want to use a newsgroup. > > >>>Give us more details, Richard. > > Well, since I wasn't the one who implemented the news server, I'm only >guessing as to its implementation. You can probably hang a NNTP (news) >server off of any Internet-accessible server. The news server has its own IP >address. Bill Whitson could create one off of the ClassicCmp server at >UofWA, or anyone else here with a free IP address and the approval of the >bosses. You could then also provide an e-mail gateway the news server so >that those who want the newsgroup activity by e-mail can get it. > > Authentication is either anonymous or login required. Each of us is >given a login name and password (like rcini and 12345678), which will be >required to logon. From there, your newsreader takes over. > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >============================================ > > > >

28 years, 2 months

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gcc for VAX VMS

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Pete, ---------- > From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: gcc for VAX VMS > Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 8:33 AM > > does DECUS do in other countries? There must be lots of peopel like us who > keep old 11s and VAXen running. probably they don't use VMS ... ;-)) but serious, i think they expanding this Hobbiist thing to other countries. one day .... cheers, emanuel

28 years, 2 months

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Wait a second, ARE there private newsgroups on this topic? I thought it was just an idea everyone proposed but never did... > >At 08:49 AM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Scanning today''s messages gave me an idea. I don't know if this has >>been discussed before, but I don't remember it being discussed. > >It has. It comes up every now and then on every mailing list. What >usually happens is that those who want a newsgroup go off a create a >newsgroup, and the ones who can't access or don't like newsgroups stick to >the e-mail list, and the real die-hards follow both, cross-posting stuff >all the time. > >> ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > ^ >I am not a number, I am a free man! > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 17:06, Hotze wrote: > Subject: Re: Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup > Yeah, but could such a thing be done on Linux/UNIX OS's? I'm guessing that > you would need a NT server... You can run the INN server under linux (or other UNIXes), and it supports authorisation. I'd expect that the real problem is finding the extra space to store the newsgroup files. At present, I don't think the list takes up much file space, since the postings aren't archived (AFAIK). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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gcc for VAX VMS

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Pete, ---------- > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: gcc for VAX VMS > Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 4:54 AM > > Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do > something about my MicroVAX? > have a look at: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register.html cheers, emanuel

28 years, 2 months

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gcc for VAX VMS

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 8:30, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > > Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do > > something about my MicroVAX? > > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register.html > P.S. You have to be a DECUS member for this, .... Thanks! I also see that it only covers a few countries -- not including the UK, where I am. I let my UK DECUS membership lapse, when they started charging considerable (at least, from a student's point of view) amounts of money for annual membership and vast amounts of money for software from the library. It's not like in the States, where there's a no-charge Basic Membership. What does DECUS do in other countries? There must be lots of peopel like us who keep old 11s and VAXen running. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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gcc for VAX VMS

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Pete, ---------- > From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: gcc for VAX VMS > Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 4:54 AM > > > Now, can someone remind me of the URL for VMS hobby licensing so I can do > something about my MicroVAX? please have a look at: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register.html cheers, emanuel P.S. You have to be a DECUS member for this, ....

28 years, 2 months

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:49:03 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Anyway, as part of my Microsoft beta testing, I belong to a small group > of "elite" testers. Called ClubWin!, we have a private administrative > newsgroup that requires a login name and password. Having a ClassicCmp > newsgroup would provide a threaded conversation capability. We could also > hang an e-mail gateway off of the news server to provide e-mail messages for > those who can't or want to use a newsgroup. >>Give us more details, Richard. Well, since I wasn't the one who implemented the news server, I'm only guessing as to its implementation. You can probably hang a NNTP (news) server off of any Internet-accessible server. The news server has its own IP address. Bill Whitson could create one off of the ClassicCmp server at UofWA, or anyone else here with a free IP address and the approval of the bosses. You could then also provide an e-mail gateway the news server so that those who want the newsgroup activity by e-mail can get it. Authentication is either anonymous or login required. Each of us is given a login name and password (like rcini and 12345678), which will be required to logon. From there, your newsreader takes over. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

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Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Classiccmp)

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:19 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: >>Even if everyone could agree on this it would last for about 1 week and >>then go back to status quo. I really don't mind the ads. They are not >>excessive, they are reaching a good market where there is a win-win (the >>seller gets some money and space back and the buyer gets first crack at >>cool stuff), and they are more on topic than the drivel that has been >>plaguing us for the last four weeks or so. Whether or not it would go back would depend on our level of commitment. I don't think that it is burdensome lately, because some are concentrating on slinging mud, but it would be nice to have them all in one place. Reference so to speak. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

1
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i387's

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I had looked in jameco's catalog before, and the prices seem rather high! $25 for a single mathco is outrageous. i remember they did/do sell system boards that arent necessarily state of the art for 2-3 times a "normal" price. do they still sell apple parts? mouser electronics (if still around) might have parts cheaper. In a message dated 98-04-11 06:13:39 EDT, you write: << >I realize that this may not quite reach the 10year mark, but not many >people deal with even this old of hardware. (Is there a group out there >for "obsolete" yet non-yet-classic hardware?) 10 years? Yes. The 80386 was designed in 1985, so the 387 couldn't be to much later than that. >I need to find somewhere to get many i387 chips. (I currently need about >15 to 20 of them.) Anyone know the best place to start looking? The EXACT place to look is Jameco, at http://www.jameco.com . In their newest catalog, they list the 80387 (unter Integrated circuts and then under Math Coprocessors), they have: (prices for the 10-99 range) 80387-33 $25.95 80387-40 $29.95 80387-16SX $34.95 """""""""20"" $39.95 """""""""25"" $44.95 I can give part #'s if you're interested. Hope this helps, Tim D. Hotze >>

28 years, 2 months

1
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i387's

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I realize that this may not quite reach the 10year mark, but not many >people deal with even this old of hardware. (Is there a group out there >for "obsolete" yet non-yet-classic hardware?) 10 years? Yes. The 80386 was designed in 1985, so the 387 couldn't be to much later than that. >I need to find somewhere to get many i387 chips. (I currently need about >15 to 20 of them.) Anyone know the best place to start looking? The EXACT place to look is Jameco, at http://www.jameco.com . In their newest catalog, they list the 80387 (unter Integrated circuts and then under Math Coprocessors), they have: (prices for the 10-99 range) 80387-33 $25.95 80387-40 $29.95 80387-16SX $34.95 """""""""20"" $39.95 """""""""25"" $44.95 I can give part #'s if you're interested. Hope this helps, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

1
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Asshole

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

Without comment enrico Anonymous wrote: > > Are you a fucking idiot, Limey? Cut the damn crying on the mailing list or you might just open a message one day and have your whole machine become instantly erased...Not a threat, a promise. -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ========================================================

28 years, 2 months

4
4
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Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:18 PM 4/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >>around and use the PC as a disk drive "server" for the C64, VIC20 and C128? >>And that is only one thought. > >I believe that's already been done. I know it's been done for 8-bit Atari's. (I've seen a 1200xl with built-in hard-drive, using a pentium with big HD and CD as a peripheral...) (Talk to Bob Wooley of the San Leandro Computer Club, San Leandro, CA.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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what is a Vax Station 2000?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> They are not CPU upgradable, but you can add expansion > memory out to 16MB, an 8 port async serial board (thats the big DB > connector that doesn't go anywhere) and a sync serial port. Sorry, the big DB that doesn't go anywhere is used to add another MFM hard disk. It contains the control and data signals for the second drive. I've not seen the 8-port option, but I believe it plugs in place of the color graphics board. > The SCSI port was only supported for the TKZ50 tape drive, an > old 95MB DLT type drive, although I think there was a 3rd party SCSI > disk driver from Trimarchi (now out of business). Gerhard Moeller (I believe that's his name) has hacked over the SCSI driver for the MicroVAX 3100 to bring it up on the 2000. I've used the driver under VMS 7.1 to speak to a tape drive (this gives me a nice little package to take on travel; a 2000 with an RD32 and a TZ30). Since it's a full-up SCSI port driver, it can be used to support anything VMS knows how to talk to; disks, tapes, etc. I've heard of one fellow who is using a 2000 to burn CDs. I suggest looking around on dejanews for discussion of Moeller's driver. > The VAXstation had a > graphics display for a non-standard monitor. All 2000s include a monochrome display built into the motherboard. It is also possible to add on a color display. Rumor has it that it is not impossible to use both displays simultaneously, but I've never tried it (my color monitors have died over the years). Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Telex 181-GP printer

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Nephew has acquired a Telex 181-GP dot matrix printer. I've looked on the net, and it looks like Telex is all but gone. Any idea where I might find documentation on this unit? I'm assuming it emulates a 5152, like almost every other DM made in the 80's. Kind of ironic, as we had a huge Telex facility here in Tulsa for years. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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Morrow Designs Pivot

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I recently acquired a Morrow Designs Pivot Model 2522 - Special, serial number 31-0001488. Both the model number and serial number are hand written on the manufacturer plate on the rear of this pc. It has dual 5 1/4 " floppy drives and 640k memory. The memory board is labelled Morrow Zenith.This is an interesting portable having a rom monitor for the built-in modem, what appears to be a built-in calculator (haven't been able to get the calculator button to do anything). Date can be changed in the monitor by pressing a button also. Boots MS-DOS fine. I read in Stan Veit's book that Zenith licensed this technology from Morrow. Does anyone have any further info on this unit or better yet a operation manual? Thanks- Marty Mintzell

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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Rabbit 286 ????

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Today I bought three portable PCs marked "Rabbit 286". They're about the size of a large lunch box and have a keyboard that fastens against one side. When you remove the keyboard it uncovers a gas plasma screen. There are slots for two 3.5 drives on the right hand side and a door on the left side. Opening the door exposes the back of several expansion card slots. There's a label on the bottom that says "Chicony Electronics Co.", "Model 286G-A", "Gas Plasma Display" and "640H x 400W Dots". One almost works, one is dead and the third one is somewhere in between. Does anyone know anything about these? I'm wondering if it's possible to put a small 386 or 486 mother board in these. Joe

28 years, 2 months

4
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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

That's exactly where I got it from. Now, I was just thinking that in 1973, that would be a huge space, the size (or larger) than hard drives! So you could transmit your entire hard drive in a second, barring server stuff and hard drive speed. It sounded strange to me. ;-) Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 1:06 AM Subject: Re: You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet) >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >> > Sorry, but this seems crazy to me. Was Ethernet invented in 1973? Was it >> > 10MBps then? >> >> I somehow doubt it! > >>From the tagline of Bob Metcalfe's regular column in Infoworld... > (this should explain all...) > >"Technology pundit Bob Metcalfe invented Ethernet in 1973 and founded 3Com >in 1979, and today he specializes in the Internet..." > >...and just in case that does not work for you, I have a copy of the >original joint specification document buried in the archives somewhere. >B^} > >-jim >--- >jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >

28 years, 2 months

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Dunno when the 8X305 came out. I've seen them, and got the data sheets, <but never used one. Well after the 2901! it's far more complex. It was preceded by the 8x300 and the 3x305 was somthing like 1979-81. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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eBay = Mkt Value? (was: my objection to recent postings)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:35 AM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >> As to whether prices on eBay represent what experienced, knowledgeable >> collectors will pay, that's another story. > >Exactly my point. I'd rather base valuations on what experienced, >knowledgeable collectors will pay. People who have a better idea of how My point too. There's a big difference in "market value" and "collector value". (Don't believe me, buy a "collectible" plate sometime, or coins >from a TV shopping channel.) Market value is what the average idiot will pay, at auction or elsewhere. Collector value is what an informed collector will pay, based on rarity, significance, etc. I've got books on disney, hot wheels/corgi/dinky/matchbox/etc., glassware, collectible board games, and so on (used to be in the business, kinda) and I am often amazed at what things sell for, at auction, at antique shows, in stores, as well as at garage sales, flea markets, and so on. Heck, Hake's is one of the biggest value setters in the US of pricing on Disney, politicals, advertising, and so on stuff, but still, a lot of collectors (me included) think their prices are inflated. Market value versus collector value. >> That's a tough call. Do you sell it to someone who will use it and >> appreciate it for what you paid for it, or do you put it on eBay so you can >> pay the property taxes? I haven't got an answer to that one yet. > >I do...sell it to me :) Ah, but... Say I'm a newbie to the group (and don't take this personally!), how do I know that if I sell you my //c LCD screen for $20, I won't see it listed on eBay next week with a starting bid of $400? And even though I know you wouldn't do that, I still not that easy. As an example, I've got two SE/30 motherboards, brand new, in the Apple Service boxes. I know some people here expressed interest in them, so I should probably offer them here, cheaply. The problem is, they're actually part of the Mac stuff allocated to my girlfriend's school. If I sold them on eBay, I might get enough to buy a complete, working IIci system to put into the classroom for the kids to use. What do I do? And even if they weren't going to the school, I wasn't able to take my dad and niece to Disneyland this year because I can't afford it. If I sold them on eBay, that would pay for part of a cheap trip to Dland. Like I said, tough call. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Classiccmp)

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Here's an idea... How about making Friday the "classifieds section" day? You know, like the local newspaper. Although classifieds appear in newspspers daily, it seems that one day has many more than the others. This would reduce the daily FS/T traffic, but still enable people to trade stuff. I see ClassicCmp as a great resource, not only for information not available elsewhere, but also for physical equipment and software which is obviously no longer made or supported by the manufacturer. I also think that those on this list should give (and be given) first crack at something that one of us has for sale. We all know eachother, have dealth with eachother previously, and for the most part, know that "the check is good." Trading should continue, but maybe it should be aggregated and done on one day. Maybe Monday's the right day...maybe Friday. I don't know. Just my $0.02. Happy Holidays to all. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

4
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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:49 AM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote: > Scanning today''s messages gave me an idea. I don't know if this has >been discussed before, but I don't remember it being discussed. It has. It comes up every now and then on every mailing list. What usually happens is that those who want a newsgroup go off a create a newsgroup, and the ones who can't access or don't like newsgroups stick to the e-mail list, and the real die-hards follow both, cross-posting stuff all the time. > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) ^ I am not a number, I am a free man! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > Actually, it's all discrete TTL chips (74S181 ALUs, 74161's for the > program counter, etc). The KMC11 and DMR11 (a later version That's right 'ls181, a crude bit slice ALU. I remember there was a way to download microcode directly, the RSX driver supported it. None of those cool 2900 series slices were around yet, maybe even the 8x305 was still on the drawing board. I still have the AMD 2901 design book, heavy going but it tells you everything you ever want to know about building a CPU from scratch. I don't suppose anyone has some kind of system built from 2901 bit slices? Roll your own microcoded instruction sets? Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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Subscribe

by POLARIS＠VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU

Hello - could you add me to the list? Thanks, Dave Forsyth

28 years, 2 months

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by maynard＠jmg.com

Allison, this was private email, but I figure this may be actually of interest to the group. There's nothing here personal, or insulting anyway... OK. So Allison says the HEX bus 11/44 ran a BSD variant with networking. I would guess a Q-BUS CPU with memory management like the 11/23 and 11/73 line should run this BSD variant as well... what I want to know is, did the kernel fit into 64K in one segment, or did they spread the kernel across segment bounderies? If so, how? I mean, I could see overlays (in the kernel... blech!), but I don't remember the 11 supporting long long jumps... and address value was 16 bits, period. Still, I was never great at 11 assembly. Could someone here give a good detailed account of PDP-11 segment mapping support? Could my stack and register values be retained and follow while moving from segment to segment? And how the hell did you tell the memory manager you wanted to pop to another segment, anyway? The curious want to know.... --jmg > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:40:32 -0400 > From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) > To: maynard(a)jmg.com > Subject: Re: You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet) > > > < I find it tough to believe that a BSD kernel with networking > < fit into the 64K memory segments of the PDP11... The copy of > < Venix I ran on my 11/23 didn't support networking and the > < kernel most _definately_ fit into only one segment. > > Venix didn't, but IP and friends was developed on PDP11s! It definately > fit and was run on 11/44s and the like so it would fit on an 11/23. That's > not to say there wasn't whole lto a swapping goin on. > > Allison > >

28 years, 2 months

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[OFF TOPIC?] Fixed Freq Monitor Questions

by maynard＠jmg.com

OK, This is mildly on topic. My monitor is an HP 1097C, making it at least 10 years old. However, I am using it with a modern PC, so that's where the 'on topic' issue gets a little iffy. I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can answer this question. A pointer to a FAQ would be most welcome. These old monitors are Fixed frequency, unlike our modern monitors which multisync. The 1097C supports only a 78.125 khz Horizontal Scan Rate and a 72hz Vertical Refresh Rate. Now a couple of years ago I foolishly bought one of those cards by Mirage (www.mirage-mmc.com) which is supposed to be a 'fixed freq video card'. Actually, it's an OEM Diamond card, basically an S3/968 video processor with an IBM 52x RAMDAC - ala Diamond Stealth VRAM. The fixed Freq hacks are basically a resistor (and a jumper selection) to drive sync over green, and a homebrew PROM to skew the VESA frequencies for several video and text modes. It works, but Mirage hasn't been too helpful with getting a variety of XFree86 modelines, even though they claim to support Linux and XFree86. They give out _one_ modeline for 1280 x 1024, which they swiped from the XFree86 distribution in 'Monitors.txt'. For Windows and Dos, they give out a video driver which seems to work just fine. It will even display 320x200 full screen (Quake works great in DOS!), and boots to a functional 80x24 col text mode. How the hell do they do this? Here is how I'm calculating my video modes based in the XFree86VideoModes HOWTO (found in every Redhat 5 distribution): Dot Clock Per Second Total Horizontal Pixels Per Line = -------------------------- Horizontal Scanning Rate Since my refresh rate must be at 72hz to sync with the HP1097C: Dot Clock Refresh Rate = ------------------------------------------------- Horizontal Frame Length * Vertical Frame Length So, it's really more constructive to think of this as how many pixels _total_ do I need to display in order to get a 72 hz vertical scan rate with any arbitrary dot clock? In this case I need Dot Clock Total Pixels Per Frame (HFLxVFL) = ------------- Refresh Rate Since I know my Horizontal Pixels Per Line, I can use this to determine the number of vertical lines which will support a 72 hz refresh rate.... hmmm, this is where things get sticky. We'll start with a DCL of 10Mhz... 10Mhz Dot Clock 128 Horizontal Pixels = ----------------------------- 78125 hz Vertical Scan Rate 10 Mhz Dot Clock 138888 Total Pixels = --------------------------- 72 hz Refresh Rate 138888.88 Pixels 1085 Vertical Lines Per Frame = ----------------------- 128 Horizontal Pixels Sheesh! A (total) screen resolution of 128H x 1085V? What about a 20 Mhz dot clock? Well, after graphing the results I quickly observed this: S | T C | o R R | 128H 256H 384H 512H 640H 1728H ** T E E | x x x x x x A E S | 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V 1085V L N | | DCL ----+------+-------+-------+-------+------- [...] ----+----- 10 20 30 40 50 135 (** Perfect for a usful screen resolution of 1280x1024) So, based on this, I cannot get small or talored screen resolutions unless I am willing to accept wide borders and strange resolutions. Yet my card works....It does _not_ display this behavior... so I suspect my thinking is to blame. Will someone please correct me? Apologies if you consider this post off topic... J. Maynard Gelinas

28 years, 2 months

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > > 802.. eithernet was always 10mbit/s. The 1.5mhz stuff was > arcnet. They > are similar in that they are both bus topology using CSMA/CD > arbitration. > Not quite. Arcnet was not a CSMA/CD but token passing, more in common with Token Ring rather than Ethernet. Arcnet used a bus, but a token was passed along to each node and that node sent a packet only when it got the token. Whenever a new node came online the rest of the nodes would reconfigure and start the token over again. Collisions only occured when new nodes came on line the first time. IIRC it was Datapoint that first came up with Arcnet for their multi-user terminals. For a small number of static nodes the Arcnet throughput was actually quite good. Whereas ethernet is probabilistic for access, token passing is deterministic in that you are guaranteed a slice of bandwidth to every node. At a minimum you always had roughly 1/n of available bandwidth, where n was the number of nodes. Arcnet degraded in a linear fashion as nodes were added, but Ethernet degradation can approach geometric rates, as anyone knows when they see that collision light on the UTP hub go on solid. Also, Arcnet was 2.5Mbps. The original version used coax (not Ethernet thinwire! I think it was RG-92?) into hubs, later versions went to twisted pair. There was a 20Mbps follow-up from SMC (the primary chip maker for Arcnet) but it never caught on. Arcnet was a common networking standard for S-100 systems in the early to mid 80s, using MP/M and CP/NET from Digital Research. I think it was one of the first network transports supported by NetWare too. Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sam, you have to understand that if people don't feel comfortable asking questions on this list, even if they are irrelevant, they won't ask anything at all. You can't intimidate people if you want them to deal with you. In response to the original question: the isolinear chips are supposed to be holographic memory, which is in the works, and will allow terabytes of storage in several cubic centimeters, just like on the Enterprise. The nanites have an advanced version of modern nanomachinery. I would think that .5 micron hard drives are easier in this case. As for the ancient storage, I think that was magnetic. Interestingly enough, the classic trek had almost nothing in the way of computers, though there were plenty of them out there in the '60s >"REALLY". > >Thanks in advance. > >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Hotze wrote: > >> Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they >> use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short >> and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can >> transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing >> that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold >> entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites, >> little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were >> microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon >> ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data >> intact. >> Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible? >> Feasable? >> Thanks, >> >> Tim D. Hotze >> >> > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 04/08/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Not to beat a dead horse, but I believe Tim's question was relevant. I read about optical storage using holography well over ten years ago but am unaware of its present use or status. This may not strictly qualify as classic computer subject matter but shouldn't we give a 12 year-old a break? Tim should be commended and encouraged for his interest in computer science and preservation, not hen-pecked over the fact that he related his question to a Star Trak episode. Keep asking questions Tim and don't let anybody intimidate you into silence. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?) Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 4/10/98 2:09 PM Star Trek is a television show. Do you really think that this question is appropriate? Two words... alt.startrek van >Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they >use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short >and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can >transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing >that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold >entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites, >little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were >microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon >ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data >intact. > Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible? >Feasable? > Thanks, > >Tim D. Hotze ......................................................................... @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ......................................................................... for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page(a)wired.com van(a)wired.com van(a)futuraworld.com pingpong(a)spy.net vanburnham(a)aol.com ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Apr10.140909.1767.36428; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:09:15 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id LAA18051; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:03:44 -0700 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id LAA63546 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:03:35 -0700 Received: from wired.com (get.wired.com [204.62.131.5]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id LAA04060 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:03:34 -0700 Received: from [206.221.206.170] (wrs.wired.com [206.221.206.170]) by wired.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15918 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:01:03 -0700 Message-Id: <v03110700b1540e831ecb(a)[206.221.206.170]> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:14:44 -0700 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Van Burnham <van(a)wired.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?) In-Reply-To: <001001bd64a0$934d3ee0$3167bcc1@hotze> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: van(a)pophost.wired.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 2 months

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eBay = Mkt Value? (was: my objection to recent postings)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:07 AM 4/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >I agree. Ebay is definitely NOT indicative of "actual market value". Its >all based on scarcity, and scarcity varies from area to area around the >country and the world. Someone thinking they got a great deal on a >complete C64 system for $25 got ripped off since I can pick up something >similar locally for less than $10. Well, "actual market value" is exactly what eBay is -- the value of an object (i.e., what it sells for) on the open market. Ya can't get much more open than eBay, what with it's internationalism. As to whether prices on eBay represent what experienced, knowledgeable collectors will pay, that's another story. And lastly, yes, values are determined in large part by scarcity. Here in San Francisco, a postcard with a picture of the Golden Gate Bridge will cost me 25 cents (or so). In New York, I'd probably have to pay a bit more for one, and still more if I were in, say, Ayr, Scotland. Here in the SF area, a lot of computers are readily available, and affordable. This is a very technically aware locale, and a lot of the people here were early-adopters of computer technology (unlike, say, parts of Pennsylvania that are primarily Amish.) So they'll be cheaper here than elsewhere. So people in PA can either pay higher prices there, buy over the net (including eBay), or hop a plane to SF. As a side note, it always makes me laugh when at antique shows when I see some item for sale for $15 that I know can be bought at Disneyland, brand new, for $3. But people pay those prices, because not everyone goes to DLand every year. >Ugh! Don't do that! Sell it to someone who would appreciate and >actually use it (like me! :) That's a tough call. Do you sell it to someone who will use it and appreciate it for what you paid for it, or do you put it on eBay so you can pay the property taxes? I haven't got an answer to that one yet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

3
2
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E & L MMD1 8080 trainer board

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1903 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980406/061087ac/at…

28 years, 2 months

2
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Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Well, it really depends. After asking my self, I said "No." Then, after contemplating it, and asking again, I have to say "Yes." First of all, it deals with the preservation of data, something that collecters must be knowledgable about, especially if they have origional/interesting software. -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 8:06 PM Subject: Re: Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?) > >This is a Star Trek question and has absolutely no place on this >discussion. > >When posting a message to ClassicCmp, ask yourself this question: "Does >this REALLY have ANYTHING to do with old computers?" After you answer it >to yourself, ask it again, but this time put extra emphasis on the word >"REALLY". > >Thanks in advance. > >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Hotze wrote: > >> Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they >> use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short >> and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can >> transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing >> that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold >> entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites, >> little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were >> microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon >> ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data >> intact. >> Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible? >> Feasable? >> Thanks, >> >> Tim D. Hotze >> >> > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 04/08/98] >

28 years, 2 months

1
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TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Amen, Sam. Enrico, please use discretion in these issues. Personal issues should stay between individuals, not aired on the list. Tell us about your classic computer collection. I'm eager to hear about it. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 4/8/98 3:22 PM A real gentle-man! enrico Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Enrico Tedeschi wrote: > > > You are demontrating AGAIN that you don't care about other people feelings and > > problems. You are NOT in charge of policing this mailgroup. If you don't want > > to see this sort messages anymore help me to fix my problem. > > I'm not going to help you do shit. This is YOUR problem. This is NOT the > problem of classiccmp! Therefore, DON'T POST YOUR PROBLEMS ON CLASSICCMP! > I don't post how much of an ass I think you are, so don't post your > personal crap either! And you'd better bet that when I do take over the > list, I'll make sure YOU are on the list of moderated members since you > have proven time and time again that you can't police yourself. So show > some restraint and respect and KEEP YOUR GARBAGE IN PRIVATE E-MAIL PLEASE! > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ======================================================== ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Apr08.152223.1767.36036; Wed, 08 Apr 1998 15:22:26 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id MAA28636; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:09:33 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id MAA24588 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:09:23 -0700 Received: from andromeda.ndirect.co.uk (andromeda.ndirect.co.uk [194.74.254.17]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id MAA27472 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:09:21 -0700 Received: from ndirect.co.uk (th-pm01-62.ndirect.co.uk [195.7.225.126]) by andromeda.ndirect.co.uk (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA31705 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:09:19 +0100 Message-Id: <352BD991.37692194(a)ndirect.co.uk> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 20:10:01 +0000 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980407113208.29252B-100000@shell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 2 months

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TI 99/4a

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I am pretty sure that the TI itself works. I plugged in a commodore 5-pin monitor cable. The video pinouts differ, I guess, but the audio worked. It beeped when I turned it on, and booped whenever I pressed a key. I checked the modulator box cable, and it's fine. Also, the box is getting power. Still, the little led on it does not light up, and ISDN (It Still Does Nothing). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

> >This is a Star Trek question and has absolutely no place on this >discussion. > <snip> > >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Hotze wrote: <snip> >> microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon >> ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data >> intact. I think 700,000 years old qualifies as being over the ten year mark :-) -- Kirk

28 years, 2 months

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Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I love the ads, anytime. I don't care how classic equipment is offered up just as long as it is being made available. I don't have any problem with commercialism either. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 4/10/98 12:50 PM On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Richard A. Cini wrote: > How about making Friday the "classifieds section" day? You know, like > the local newspaper. Although classifieds appear in newspspers daily, it > seems that one day has many more than the others. > > This would reduce the daily FS/T traffic, but still enable people to > trade stuff. I see ClassicCmp as a great resource, not only for information > not available elsewhere, but also for physical equipment and software which > is obviously no longer made or supported by the manufacturer. Even if everyone could agree on this it would last for about 1 week and then go back to status quo. I really don't mind the ads. They are not excessive, they are reaching a good market where there is a win-win (the seller gets some money and space back and the buyer gets first crack at cool stuff), and they are more on topic than the drivel that has been plaguing us for the last four weeks or so. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 04/08/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Apr10.125015.1767.36399; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:50:16 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id JAA12125; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:37 -0700 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA63678 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:28 -0700 Received: from shell.wco.com (root(a)shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id JAA26839 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:26 -0700 Received: from shell (dastar@shell [199.4.94.16]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id JAA14087 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980410094013.8124C-100000@shell> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Re.: How about a weekly FS/T list? (was Sale postings to Classiccmp) In-Reply-To: <005501bd6480$ddf42b40$6521a7cd@bothell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Sender: dastar@shell X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 2 months

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Scanning today''s messages gave me an idea. I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I don't remember it being discussed. It's sometimes hard to follow the list with all of the quoted-replies; maybe tracking deep-threaded messages is just not my strong suit :-) Anyway, as part of my Microsoft beta testing, I belong to a small group of "elite" testers. Called ClubWin!, we have a private administrative newsgroup that requires a login name and password. Having a ClassicCmp newsgroup would provide a threaded conversation capability. We could also hang an e-mail gateway off of the news server to provide e-mail messages for those who can't or want to use a newsgroup. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

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worldwide shipping of junk

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: >Very true. You euro-doods could make a killing on us stupid Americans if >you started auctioning off easy to find Sinclairs, Orics and Thompsons on >Ebay. The only obstacle to overcome would be shipping, but I'm sure a >little creative direct advertising towards us could overcome that concern. So what does it cost to send a standard shipping container from London to San Francisco on a slow boat? With a container a month, you could stock an esoteric used computer store, bi-directionally. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 2 months

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Burroughs B27?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Ten-plus years ago, I was given an opportunity to scrap a Burroughs machine of some kind. I don't think it was still running, and it was the size of a small refrigerator. I pulled the interesting chips and disassembled the open-air hard disk unit. It was covered in a clear sheet plastic frame, sealed with snaps or Velcro, and the 14" platters spun in the air like a turntable. I still have the two platters on the wall. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 2 months

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eBay transactions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-10 02:14:22 EDT, you write: << At 06:29 PM 4/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >> That might depend on whether you're selling or buying, Kai :-). A *very* valid comment. >> More seriously, has anyone here actually conducted a transaction >> through Ebay? Did the highest bidder actually make payment in >> a timely manner, if you were selling? >> just had a friend of mine email me to tell me he saw a mac128 go for $330 on ebay. idiots overbid themselves. ebay is a good indicator of old computer prices? i think not!

28 years, 2 months

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TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-04-08 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :You might if you had been had by someone in this list. If the man :is a con, I think I am doing a public service here trying to stop :him to strike again with somebody else. the email below was private. why did you post a public response? that is a breach of netiquette - which makes you look every bit as clueless as cord intimated. we'll ring you to complain in future. everyone else: apologies, but we felt we should point this out. :enrico :lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: :> On 1998-04-07 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard@zetnet. :>co.uk :Warning! You might get something different from what :>you have :bidded for. I did. :> keep your bitching private. nobody else gives a toss. :> -- :> Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you :>falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing :within her... :-- :======================================================== :Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK :Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) :please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> :======================================================== -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

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eBay transactions

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:29 PM 4/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >> That might depend on whether you're selling or buying, Kai :-). A *very* valid comment. >> More seriously, has anyone here actually conducted a transaction >> through Ebay? Did the highest bidder actually make payment in >> a timely manner, if you were selling? I have both bought and sold (mostly bought, though) through eBay. Mostly Classic Computers, Donald Duck stuff, and Miniature Land Rovers. Had one problem once, when the guy ignored me for a while, then eventually claimed to have previously sold the stuff I bid on. Never had a problem with a payment. Generally, stuff is well packaged, though one time, I bought a TI99/4A in the original box, and it arrived -- in the original box, covered with duct tape. I was heartbroken. I explained to the guy that I had been interested in the box as much as the computer, and he offered to refund my money. (I didn't take him up on the offer, just wanted to prevent it from happening to someone else.) For comparison, I once ordered a Donald Duck nutcracker (new) from the Disney catalog. The 6"x6"x12" nutcracker box came in a 2'x1'x3' box, with a few sheets of tissue paper, neatly folded on the bottom of the box. I was *not* happy. The feedback system on ebay seems to work pretty well, I think. I feel pretty comfortable buying and selling there. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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Test equipment - must sell soon

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Ive had this posted in the past but these are really getting in my way: *Tektronix 7612D programmable digitizer (scope w/o a screen) with two 7A16A plugins. No manuals or cables but it appears to be in terrific shape otherwise. $150 plus shipping or will consider trades. *Kontron KLA64 64 channel logic analyser - 2 complete units, cables, manuals, covers, software, etc. They also have an optional unit installed internally. Includes Axiom video printer. All items go as a package - $325 plus shipping. Sorry no trades and will not separate. Total weight about 160 lbs for everything. Can email detailed info to those interested. I bought these in an auction lot and the above pricing is what I have into them. I bought the auction lot to primarily obtain a digital oscilloscope for my shop but the above items are R&D oriented and realy have no use in my repair shop. Both are still supported by repair, calibration and parts outfits as well as the manufacturers. I have sources for the manual for the Tek 7612D and plugins as well so you don't need to be concerrned that you'll not be able to work it without a manual. The manuals for the Kontrons is very detailed and is from setup and use to parts and adjustment. I'm trying to be as discrete as possible about posting these and I'm sure some people are tired of seeing it come back up but there are new people to the list that may not know of them and possibly be interested. Please reply direct to me, not to the list. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 2 months

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what is a Vax Station 2000?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Cool. I have one of these (a uVAX2000) but the harddrive is going on i <(I think something is loose inside and rattling around). Maybe the power cord to the disk? <> They can take RX33(1.2mb) <> floppy and or any MFM drive like RD31(20mb st225), RD32(40mb st251), <> RD52(quantum D540 31mb), RD53 (micropolus1325 71mb) or RD54(maxtor 2990 <> 159mb). < < I have seveal MFM drives here, but what are the Seagate equivilents to <RD line? I have an ST-4051, ST-251, ST-277r-1, ST-4038 and one unknown o <(made by Mitsubishi, has at least 4 heads and 904 cylinders and the only <marking I see is TKS 56704). The st251 is an rd32. The rest I don't know. It can format drives too! the command is test70. < Finding information about the Seagates isn't hard (as Seagate has all t <information on their web site) but I'm curious as to the equivilents to t <RD line. I listed the rd#, the maufacturer and the model. < Do you know offhand if that comes with a development system (say, a C <compiler? Or even just headers?) VMS is fairly loaded, editors, MACRO32, BASIC, DCL(the command line language is as complex as some of the 8bit basics!), various language libraries (C, Fortran, Macro). DECwindows is part of the OS as is DECnet. Also DECwindows server, latserver and software to manage the system, accounts, networks. VMS as supplied is a complete working OS and environment and anything but minimal in the pieces supplied. I've done entire network projects using nothing but DCL scripts! The first software to download for VMS is CMUip (I think the cdrom has it) so that IP connections can managed). I'm sure there are suitable C compilers in the free/shareware domain. Most people have little knowledge of what VMS is. It's a multiuser, multitasking OS designed for robust applications with high security. What isn't mentioned is it's also a user enviornment, development system and a aplications platform all rolled into one. It also has the advantage of 20 years of development history with V7.1 being current but any version between 5.4 and 6.1 covered under the hobby license. I run 5.4 and 5.5 as it's as good as any and they are all good. An advantage for the non unix user is DCL is like DOS command lines to the user and most of the basic facilities are similar though richer featured. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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my objection to recent postings

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 4/8/98 9:48:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, marvin(a)rain.org writes: << Joe wrote: > The one thing that does piss me off is when people sell stuff on one of > the high cost services like E-bay but place ads for it here. But I must > admit that I've done it too. I would disagree with this as part of the continuing education in any collectable field is having some idea of what the market value is, and ebay certainly provides some guidance in that regard! >> Well, i'd be willing to argue that. i dont think i would consider ebay to set current market prices for anything. i have a friend who uses it, and he said it's great for the seller if one is selling anything quasi-rare or semi- unusual as the manic bidders want to outdo themselves and drive the prices way up. he said i should sell my apple //c lcd screen on ebay as he said one went for almost $400. besides, i have seen prices there fluctuate wildly anyway. david

28 years, 2 months

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CP/M

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> I'd like to find (or build) CP/M for my only S-100 box (you know, the one > with the Ithaca Audio CPU card). I have a BASIC boot disk for the > machine, and I believe I can read/write the 5.25" floppy from my PC > (via 22disk), but I have no idea what's involved in finding or building a > CBIOS for this box and where the boot sector on the floppy is. The documentation for CP/M 2.2 is online at the unofficial CP/M web site. See http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/download/manuals/cpm22/index.html. You are interested in Chapter 6 and most of the appendices. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 2 months

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Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

At 07:40 PM 4/9/98 -0500, you wrote: > >WIREHEAD'S CRAZY THOUGHT FOR THE DAY > >Using old 386 and 486 computers and their parallel ports to replace >missing peripherals from true retrocomputing systems. Hmmm... > >I wonder if a 386, for example, with a properly programmed parallel port >could emulate...say...a disk drive with a particular interface that you >can't find anymore. > >Interesting thought? > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead I'd bet you could do it pretty easily with a bare-bones Linux install (why compile any more than you need to?). In that case you'd have access to oodles and oodles of working source code for examples. I'm still dreaming about xfacing an old IBM punched card reader with a PC running Linux. If I can ever find one that's working and for which I can scrounge CE docs. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. \

28 years, 2 months

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what is a Vax Station 2000?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<(MicroVAX 2000). They are not CPU upgradable, but you can add expansion <memory out to 16MB, an 8 port async serial board (thats the big DB They max out at 14mb due to hardware mapping. As little as 4 meg is very useable and 8mb or more makes a fine system. <connector that doesn't go anywhere) and a sync serial port. Standard The DB25 is a coms port with handshaking and modem controls. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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TI99/4a

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Today, I found two things in the trash. One is a VCR that eats tapes. Please e-mail me privately if you know what to do about that. The other is a TI99/4A with all of the packaging, but without the main manual, and any cartridges it might have come with. I will still go back tomorrow and check to make sure I didn't leave anything. Anyway, do I HAVE to have a cartridge to power it up? When I turn it on with the enormous TV switchbox, the TV shows nothing but snow. I flip all of the switches, but none fix the problem. Also, the little light on the TV switchbox doesn't turn on. Suggestions? Also, was there a word processor or something for it? Could someone send me a cartridge or two? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>If you want it bad enough everything is possible. >I do belive it is our duty to perform these tasks. An x1541 cable allows you >to connect a commodore disk drive to a PC why not make it the other way >around and use the PC as a disk drive "server" for the C64, VIC20 and C128? >And that is only one thought. I believe that's already been done. -- Kirk

28 years, 2 months

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what is a Vax Station 2000?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Hi Soe, < I went to a thrift store today and found something called a VaxStation <2000. Does anyone know what it is? I *think* the model number on it is <1410F-A. It's a box about 12 x 12" and 10" thick and has a handle on th VS2000 aka baby vax. Nice machines using the first generation micorvax chip. They can be found with up to 14mb of ram but 6-12mb are typical and only 4meg needed to run VMS or Ultrix. They can take RX33(1.2mb) floppy and or any MFM drive like RD31(20mb st225), RD32(40mb st251), RD52(quantum D540 31mb), RD53 (micropolus1325 71mb) or RD54(maxtor 2990 159mb). There is a scsi bus but the rom boot only knows an oddball tk50 off that. The base machine did hires(1280x1024) video to a 19in mono monitor and there was color too. By shorting pins 8,9 of the db9 port you could connect a terminal instead. VMS is available via hobby license and is a very robust and sophisticated operating system and will fit on a single RD54 or can be made to fit in an RD53 without decwindows. There is a fair amount of free software for VMS as well. Also most have 10b2 eithernet unless someone robbed the lance card. I have three of them, I call them a half cubic foot vax. The taller ones have a base that addes expansion connectors for a like sized box that can hone another MFM disk, floppy or TK50 tape. Generally speaking I find them for free to maybe 15$ as they are on par with slower 386s meaning they run all the VAX software but it's only .9 vups. Despite that I've used one to serve several users and notes conferences (like a newsgroup). Their upside is that the power needs are only 160w at 110v and they are small. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Wirehead Update

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

And then CNN would show UN jeeps pulling dozens of PCs with shotgun holes from soggy trenches in rwanda... > > Or you could install linux on them and donate them to 3rd world > countries as mail/usenet uucp machines for individual > villages. This is a _useful_ and humane thing to do! > >--jmg > >> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:00:30 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Captain Napalm <spc(a)armigeron.com> >> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >> Subject: Re: Wirehead Update >> >> It was thus said that the Great Zane H. Healy once stated: >> > >> > >The other thing I need to do is find uses for the pile of 386 and 486 >> > >boxes in my garage. It's 6 feet wide and 4 feet tall, neatly stacked. >> >> Well, you could install Linux/Beowulf on them and get supercomputer >> performance, then rent space on them. Beowulf is clustering software for >> Linux developed at NASA and freely available. It's been used in several >> other labs with great results (from what I hear). >> >> Check out http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/beowulf/ for more information. >> >> > Of course the smartalick answer that came to mind was to turn them on end, >> > get some cement, and build a shed useing them instead of bricks :^) >> >> Of course there's always that. >> >> -spc (Or set up a massively parallel web server and rent space out on it) >> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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RK05 story -- was "Re: Wirehead Update"

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 9, 13:59, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > I head crashed an RK05 at DEC Princeton running RT11 on the finance 11/70 > during a PM once. The head hit a 1/4 inch bulge in the disk platter Many years ago I worked in a high school that had some PDP-8s, one of which had a pair of RK05s and a collection of packs of dubious heritage. One of the parents was a DEC engineer, and volunteered to service the drives and check the packs. Two he condemned, on the grounds that using them might well damage the drive, but one in particular apparently passed his inspection, except that it rattled when it was picked up. Since this was the system pack, he was asked about this. He re-affirmed that it was OK, but agreed to open it up for a look. Out fell a Number 8 1" long woodscrew... but the pack was still worked fine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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John Higginbotham? Anyone here know a John Higginbotham?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. Does anyone know what happened to him? Did he unsubscribe? I've tried to contact him privately, but with no luck. I didn't get an error message, however. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

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what is a Vax Station 2000?

by peacock＠simconv.com

A uVAX 2000 is a single board uVAX II with onboard peripherals. DEC sold them as workstations (VAXstation 2000) or as a small server (MicroVAX 2000). They are not CPU upgradable, but you can add expansion memory out to 16MB, an 8 port async serial board (thats the big DB connector that doesn't go anywhere) and a sync serial port. Standard was the MFM interface for a Micropolis 1325 (RD53) or Maxstor 2190 disk (RD54). The SCSI port was only supported for the TKZ50 tape drive, an old 95MB DLT type drive, although I think there was a 3rd party SCSI disk driver from Trimarchi (now out of business). The VAXstation had a graphics display for a non-standard monitor. Jack Peacock > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net] > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 1998 9:41 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: what is a Vax Station 2000? > > > I went to a trift store today and found something called a > VaxStation > 2000. Does anyone know what it is? I *think* the model > number on it is VS > 1410F-A. It's a box about 12 x 12" and 10" thick and has a > handle on the > front. It looks about like one of the small coolers that > holds a six pack > of your favorite refreshments. It has a bunch of connectors > on the back > includeing a BNC connector (LAN?) and SCSI connector and a > large DB style > connector with 4 rows of pin sockets. >

28 years, 2 months

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what is a Vax Station 2000?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I went to a trift store today and found something called a VaxStation 2000. Does anyone know what it is? I *think* the model number on it is VS 1410F-A. It's a box about 12 x 12" and 10" thick and has a handle on the front. It looks about like one of the small coolers that holds a six pack of your favorite refreshments. It has a bunch of connectors on the back includeing a BNC connector (LAN?) and SCSI connector and a large DB style connector with 4 rows of pin sockets.

28 years, 2 months

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Sale postings to classiccmp (RE: my objection to recent postings)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Since Bill is absent, I'll presume to speak for him and the rest of us founding members. You'll notice that the name of the list, same as its charter, is "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers", not "preservation" although that is something we are all concerned with. Webster's defines "collect" in this sense as "to collect objects", which implicitly requires their acquisition! Blatantly commercial advertisements are not allowed, but collector for-sale ads are explicitly part of this newsgroup and are welcomed. Not only that, but offering items on Ebay instead of on this list, opens them up to the speculative investor masses and creates much higher prices than trading among collectors would produce. Trust me, it's much better to have them advertised here than on Ebay. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Davie [SMTP:adavie@mad.scientist.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 6:11 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: my objection to recent postings > > I object to the use of the Classic Computer mailing list for advertising > for-sale items on an ongoing basis for profit. I consider the use of this > list in this way akin to dropping advertising leaflets in my mailbox, or > ringing me up and asking if I want to buy insurance. > Surely, the newsgroups and eBay, etc., are an appropriate place for > regular > sales? > A mailing list dealing with the preservation of classic computers is not. > Cheers > A

28 years, 2 months

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ForSale items on Classiccmp

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Andrew Davie scribed... >I object to the use of the Classic Computer mailing list for advertising >for-sale items on an ongoing basis for profit. I consider the use of this >list in this way akin to dropping advertising leaflets in my mailbox, or >ringing me up and asking if I want to buy insurance. I'm going to assume that you're referring to Russ Blakeman's posts (please forgive me if this is inaccurate), and possibly to the postings of 'classic' systems in need of rescuing. My take on this is that I'm sorry you feel that way. For my part, I'm darn glad to have someone posting to the list who seems to have a steady stream of older gear available, and pretty decent prices to boot. There's still plenty of good information to be had in the list. The few 'For Sale' postings I've seen from Russ and others (Jim Willing for another example) have, if anything, increased the value of CLASSICCMP for me. Also, as I recall, CLASSICCMP's charter allows for the posting of such blurbs as long as what's being advertised is computer-related and of 'Classic' (greater than ten years old) vintage. As for systems needing rescue, darn few people who post that they're getting rid of systems to comp.sys.dec or comp.sys.dec.micro even know this list exists. I will always forward such notes, if I happen to see them, over to the list server. I know that doing so has resulted in at least a couple of rescues that might otherwise have ended up with the scrappers. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

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my objection to recent postings

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Dang...I was at a local scrap yard (they bust things down and sell the di <materials) and there was an Altair faceplate (smashed up and unuseable) l <in the top of the bin of steel. I wonder if the person that "donated" it <scrapper knew what he or she had before they did this terrible Whats scarier is the altair with the excepion of the board and transformer was 90% aluminum, especially the front panel. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:54 AM 4/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >I have a NOS SwTPc 6800 MP-A CPU board. This was the first SS-50 [...] >Here's the wrinkle: It's an unbuilt, BARE board. Given the somewhat >historic nature of this article, what would you do? Build it as >originally designed (most of the parts are still available), or >leave the board blank, as is? As with the Mac someone asked about, my answer is leave it as is; you can always build it later. Sure, assemble all the parts while they're still available, but don't do it until necessary. P.S., I still need your new address. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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Sale postings to classiccmp (RE: my objection to recent postings)

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> wrote: >Not only that, but offering items on Ebay instead of on this list, opens >them up to the speculative investor masses and creates much higher prices >than trading among collectors would produce. Trust me, it's much better to >have them advertised here than on Ebay. Yes, absolutely. For the first 30 seconds, it seemed like online auctions would be a great way to pick up discontinued items at a good price, but the high quality of information and easy availability drove prices up. Good for sellers, bad for cheapskate buyers. I find the online "auctions" drive prices for conventional PC stuff exactly to the average retail price, or sometimes even above that. As I wrote on 2/23: >Regarding the three Altair machines that were recently posted >to the net auction at ebay.com - they went from $1525 to $2025. >Mind you, these weren't complete systems. The software, extra >drives, etc. were auctioned separately. I was in contact with the guy who sold these before he submitted them to ebay. For a moment, I thought I had a line on a good deal: a well-off surgeon / ham / computer junk had died and his family didn't know what to do with the multiple garages of stuff. For the computers, they turned to the one computer-head nephew, who was smart enough to know the value of the machines as well as how to get the highest price - which I wholeheartedly but sadly supported. :-) Van Burnham <van(a)wired.com> wrote: >van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com >production manager >wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united >states Oh, no. Now we know we're cool, if Wired is watching. :-) That'll do wonders for prices if we get on the "Wired/Tired" list. As for list fragmentation, I'm tempted to reconfigure my extranet news server to support a prototype handful of classic computer news groups, just to see what happens. Private news servers make so much more sense than mailing lists. How many people are on this mailing list? Greg Troutman <mor(a)crl.com> wrote: >Me too! After thousands of shipping transactions, I now discourage >would be shippers from using UPS and going with USPS. After thousands of UPS shipments, I say the opposite: the Sloth Office drives me crazy. They don't crush, they simple *lose*. Damage is most often a function of packaging materials. Don't re-use boxes unless they're in great shape. Be sure the box and packing materials match the mass and CG of the item inside. Yes, both UPS and USPS toss the box to the back of the truck and pile other boxes on top. Be prepared. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 2 months

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It's getting lame in here

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Come on guys, give it a rest. Half the postings in the last 30 hours or so have been some stupid argument about posting evil capitalist for sale ads on the list. Compare the total size of this drivel with the size of the ads. Talk about computers, OK? -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years, 2 months

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DEC RRD-40 CD-ROM

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Zane, ---------- > From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: DEC RRD-40 CD-ROM > Date: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 12:53 AM > > OK, I'm stumped. What are the switch setting for the 4-switch DIP switch > on the back of a RRD-40 drive? I managed to come up with a working > configuration, but how safe is SCSI address 0 under VMS? I know the > Hobbyist CD at least boots through the hardware search in Standalone backup > (didn't have time to install tonite). Also what's the 4th switch for? if you have only four of them, should be parity. on the RRD-42 you have five of them, the fifth switching the 512/2048 bytes mode. I'm not sure about the rrd40, but hope it helps... cheers, emanuel

28 years, 2 months

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Mindset PC & Fortune 32:16

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

First the Mindset PC... I just received 2 Mindset PCs, one in the original boxes. I plan on testing the one in the original boxes and then storing it away. The other I plan on using. Here is what I know about these so far. They were 80186 based. Base unit came with 64K RAM, 32K for programs and 32K for video and 32K of ROM. It included 2 ROM/NVRAM cartridge ports up front. The expansion unit plugged into the top of the base unit and raised the RAM to 256K and added 2 360K floppy drives. In place of slots, the system has 6 cartridge ports in the back, 3 in the base and 3 in the expansion unit. Things like RS-232 ports, parallel ports, etc came in cartridges which slid into these ports. It also included a mouse. It had enhanced graphic features (for the time) driven by some special chips I believe. Connections in the back provide for RGB, Composite and TV hook-ups as well as Audio connections. And a cool graphics program called Lumena which included some animation capabilities. I understand there was some sort of genlocking capability as well. It almost appears that this was the "Amiga" of the Intel world. I'll know more after I've had a chance to do more than unpack and power up the system. I would like to know if anyone else here has one of these or any info for them. I have the Disk Operating System Manual and the Mindset Operation Guide but no real hardware refs. I'd be interested in any info on the hardware itself or software, carts, etc. Now for the Fortune 32:16... I've had two different models of these for a while now but without the Fortune terminal. These are 68000 Unix based systems and it appears that you need special keys on the terminal to cleanly startup and shutdown the system. I have been travelling and need to look into this a little better. Anyway, if anyone has one of these terminals they would like to pass on or could find out what code sequence the special keys send so I could re-program my terminals I'd really appreciate it. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years, 2 months

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Diamond D5 Wordprocessor

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Hi, >>> One was donated to me a while ago after standing unused in a garage for >>> a few years - apparently it was working when it went into store. >>> However, nowadays if I put the system disk into the drive it seeks the >>> heads, spins a couple of times, then all goes silent. >> >>Start out by opening the case and reseating all the boards in the >>cardcage. I seem to recall that there's quite a few boards in there, >>using 43 way edge connectors. Then check the PSU outputs - a good place >>to do that is at the 8" drive DC connectors, as at least that pinout is >>standard. I seem to remember that the PSU outputs were good - at least everything was as it should be at the drive connectors. The machine's in storage about 200 miles away from me at the moment, so unfortunately I can't check (one day I will get a place with a bit of space!!!) I never stripped the machine down and rebuilt it though. >>BTW, if you don't have the key needed to open the back of the machine, >>either pick the lock (it's a trivial wafer tumbler one) or flip the >>machine sideways and unscrew the plates on the bottom. That will release >>the back cover. The rest of the case then comes off. Heh heh, yup - I remember doing exactly that... >>> There's no cursor or anything on the monitor, but having never seen the >>> machine working myself I don't know if it should display anything at all >>> before a successful boot completes. >> >>Have you got the monitor cabled up correctly? There's a 10 way (?) ribbon >>cable _and_ a mains lead to connect. The monitor is getting HT power to the tube OK, and from what I remember the ribbon cable would only plug in the back of the system unit one way round, so that should be ok. It bothers me that there's no cursor or anything on the screen, but I don't know if there should be - chances are good that what little ROM this machine has would contain just enough to boot from disk and nothing else. It's a shame that the disks I have aren't known to be good - I have 2 or 3 system disks but all of them give the same results - disk seeks and spins on power up and then all goes quiet. let me know when you get your Diamond running! :) cheers Jules

28 years, 2 months

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TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>And more importantly, personal e-mail should stay between individuals that >the e-mail is communicated to, and not made public without consent. This >posting of private messages to the mailing list that some people have >taken to doing is <snip>, and I swear the next time someone >does this I will go medieval on their <snip>. On this issue, I have to agree with Sam. I mean, personal issues are not what we're talking about here. This is the ClassicCmp mailing list, there's an entire alt.psychology section of Usenet. Use it for personal issues/problems. Also, private messages are PRIVATE. If they were meant for the group to read, then they should have been sent there in the first place. Only publisize messages when it's ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. >Have some fucken integrity. This is what I disagree with. We're all reasonable. Now, you're going to complain about all of us being toddlers, but before you do, think of this. There are impressionalbe children on this list, myself being one of them. If you have a problem, treat it like a gentleman. We're all civilized enough to let people have their say. Make opinions pleasant for everyone to read. There's no reason to resort to profanity to expres emotions, or, more often then not, not expressing them. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

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TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale

by peacock＠simconv.com

> > I am afraid most of it is based (obviously) on British and > European computers. > > Why 'obviously'? I'm also a UK collector, but I think I've > got more US > machines than UK/european ones. In fact, when you move towards bigger > iron (minis/workstations/mainframes) you almost certainly end > up with mainly > US machines. > I learn something new almost every day on this list...Today I learned that computers were actually made in Europe and not just in the U.S. Now if someone would just explain why anyone would want to collect a euro-computer? Jack "tongue planted firmly in his US-centric cheek" Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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atari parts needed

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I'm in need of a functioning power supply and a copy of ataridos 2.5 on 5.25 disk for a 65xe. private email with price, please. david

28 years, 2 months

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my objection to recent postings

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I object to the use of the Classic Computer mailing list for advertising for-sale items on an ongoing basis for profit. I consider the use of this list in this way akin to dropping advertising leaflets in my mailbox, or ringing me up and asking if I want to buy insurance. Surely, the newsgroups and eBay, etc., are an appropriate place for regular sales? A mailing list dealing with the preservation of classic computers is not. Cheers A

28 years, 2 months

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TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 17:23 08/04/98 -0700, Jack wrote: >I learn something new almost every day on this list...Today I learned >that computers were actually made in Europe and not just in the U.S. >Now if someone would just explain why anyone would want to collect a >euro-computer? > Jack "tongue planted firmly in his US-centric cheek" Peacock Hmm,"The tongue goes where the tooth hurts" Riccardo ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONES ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager(DTMF PHONES)=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key |4 help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 2 months

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Modifications (was Re: my objection to recent postings)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Van Burnham <van(a)wired.com> wrote: > ps...Upon reading the thread regarding the justification in > maintaining "modifications" made to a 128K Mac, I was reminded of a > nightmare I witnessed at a vids auction. It appears someone had > decided that it would be considerably more "state-of-the-art" to play > something new instead of a slow-ass game called Computer Space...and > proceeded to destroy the original board and monitor casing in order to > convert the sleek fiberglass metalflake cabinet to play Pac-Man > instead. I don't see why defacing a classic Mac (or "Frankentosh" as > they say) should be regarded as any less horriffic. Am I totally off > here? Anyone? No, you're just mostly off. The 128K Mac in question was one that had been upgraded with contemporary modifications during its useful service life, with the intention of making it do its thing, only better. It wasn't defaced, it was enhanced, with things that were designed for just that purpose, by someone using it for its intended purpose. And at its core it's the same 128K Mac. Gutting a 128K Mac to fit an SE/30's works inside would be stretching this notion of "enhancement" a bit more than I'm comfortable with, because so far as I know Mac users didn't do that sort of thing and that sure isn't what SE/30 works were designed for. (But I'm not a Mac guy and maybe someone did do this back then.) And if I knew of someone planning to do something like what you describe to a Computer Space machine today, well...I think that stretches this notion past the point of fatigue. I'd certainly encourage him away from such a course of action. What would I have done in, say, 1982 though? I don't know, I might have even helped do it, though I really don't think I'd have seen any point to it even then. Now, that said, the goals of collectors don't necessarily have much to do with the goals of the computer's contemporary users. Original unmodified 128K Macs will probably be of more interest to some, because they were The First Macintoshes (available for public sale, anyway), and being first does have a certain cachet. And the fact that many of their original users felt the need for such upgrades has made unmodified 128K Macs that much rarer today. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 2 months

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TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

A real gentle-man! enrico Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Enrico Tedeschi wrote: > > > You are demontrating AGAIN that you don't care about other people feelings and > > problems. You are NOT in charge of policing this mailgroup. If you don't want > > to see this sort messages anymore help me to fix my problem. > > I'm not going to help you do shit. This is YOUR problem. This is NOT the > problem of classiccmp! Therefore, DON'T POST YOUR PROBLEMS ON CLASSICCMP! > I don't post how much of an ass I think you are, so don't post your > personal crap either! And you'd better bet that when I do take over the > list, I'll make sure YOU are on the list of moderated members since you > have proven time and time again that you can't police yourself. So show > some restraint and respect and KEEP YOUR GARBAGE IN PRIVATE E-MAIL PLEASE! > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ========================================================

28 years, 2 months

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my objection to recent postings

by peacock＠simconv.com

Charles A. Davis wrote: > It's also pertinent _what_ is being offered for sale, Complete and > operational systems, will probably do great on one of the 'aution' > sites. Random repair pieces, odd boards, documentation, weird It seems to me if the "for sale" was restricted to 10 years or older there would be no place for spam related "hot PII price list" stuff. I have never received a single spam price list listing a uVAX I, an IMSAI chassis, or a big price break on 16KB static RAM boards. Keep the For Sale mail, but how about labeling it with the "FS:" prefix in the subject so those who object can filter it out? I for one watch for the occasional odd S-100 card, where else am I going to see that kind of stuff? Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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my objection to recent postings

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Russ and list I admit to a bad mail day. The bickering between Enrico and Cord, was another area where TWICE I wrote a reply to the list and successfully staid my hand. I thought some were using the list as a profit making exercise, and I apologise for this error. I would still like to see prices kept private and simply "contact me if you're interested", but of course that is a matter of personal preference. I think we can close this thread, no? A

28 years, 2 months

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Seriously off-topic, but worth sending... (FUNNY)

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I'm supposed to be playing with Windows NT Server now... (BLEAH!) But the hardware guys are playing around, and they won't build my server. They have all the parts. So, I started scrounging around myslef... Found a 486DX4/100, 16 meg or RAM, etc... But a proper case was nowhere to be found! So I got me a cardboard box and some masking tape... :) I showed the result to our upstream admin, and we was laughing so hard we has almost crying... It's SERVER IN A BOX! (If you can call it that...) My boss says it's OK as long as I power it off when I leave, so it doesn't catch fire. -------

28 years, 2 months

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Seriously off-topic, but worth sending... (FUNNY)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>> I'm supposed to be playing with Windows NT Server now... (BLEAH!) > You GOT it, Seagraves. Seriously. > > In Yuk factor, this NT really take the cake. Took my boss months to > learn and setup a NT server and 1,000's of reboots, each changes even > one requires reboot. And a one dead PC too and few cards blown > along with few boards that NT hates! I think I might able master > Linux with good docs in very significent shorter time with more > changes between fewer reboots. We're being migrated to Windows Not Tolerable tomorrow, here at Power Tech. Wish me luck, or pray for me to any god you think might answer... Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel. Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel. Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst; Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk PS I like the server in a box! Keep up the good work! P.

28 years, 2 months

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S/36 Books and equipment FS

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I have a GOB of manuals with software in 5.25" (and one 3.5") disks for an IBM System 36. Here's a list of what's involved... (D) denotes disks (N) notebook/looseleaf (W) wirebound (V) Vinyl Folder Small format books: 1) PC Support/36 technical reference, IBM SC21-9097-3 (N) 2) IBM System/36 Procedures and Commands Summary SC21-9024-2 (W) SC21-9024-5 (W) 3) Getting Started with System/36 PC, SC21-9267-0 by SRA (D) (V) Large format books: 1) 5364 System Unit Maint Info, System/36, SY31-9020-1 & 9027-0 (D) (N) 2) Preparing to Install Your System 5364, IBM S/36 PC, SC21-9084-0 (D) (N) Setting Up Your Computer 5364, IBM S/36 PC, SA21-9505-0 Guide To Optional Equipment 5364, IBM S/36 PC, GX21-9817-1 3) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC System Support Prgramming, Configuration & Sort ZC21-9148 (N) 4) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC Communications Features, Feature 6047, ZC21-9155 (N) (D) 5) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC System Support Programming, 5727-SS6 Messages, ZC21-9149 (N) 6) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC System Support Programming, 5727-SS6, Operating Security, ZC21-9147 (N) 7) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC Utilities, 5727-UT6, SDA/SEU/DFU, ZC21-9197 (N) 8) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC Utilities, 5727-UT6, WSU/Messages, ZC21-9198 9) Disk Set - IBM S/36 PC System Support Programming, 5727-SS6, Diskettes, ZC21-9150 (N)(D) (40 +) ALSO included: AST 5251/11 - IBM PC to System 34/36/38 Computer Communications outfit. New, unused, in the box. Includes PC and S/34/36/38 5.25 and 8" disks as well as the cable and interface unit for the PC. So there it is....The total weight of all the binders, pages, disks, disk holders, etc is roughly 50 lbs. The 5251/11 enhanced S34/36/38 set which is another 10 lbs. Can be packed in separate cartons or in one 60 lb box. One box is cheaper to ship, of course. How much? $100 plus shipping for ALL the books and 5251/11 outfit plus shipping. I've had a few serious inquiries but no definitive answer back and I need the space. I paid $90 for this stuff myself so I'm making a few bucks basically to cover my gas in running it to the shipping point and my material in packing them. I don't mind getting this stuff to redistribute to people that need it as I know this stuff is getting hard to find. Otherwise you know where it would go. First one to contact me and actually send a money order (after contact) gets them. I'll need your zip code to figure shipping fees when you contact me. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 2 months

1
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Diamond D5 Wordprocessor

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Hi All, Has anyone had any experience with a Diamond D5 wordprocessor? Has anyone even *heard* of such a beast? One was donated to me a while ago after standing unused in a garage for a few years - apparently it was working when it went into store. However, nowadays if I put the system disk into the drive it seeks the heads, spins a couple of times, then all goes silent. There's no cursor or anything on the monitor, but having never seen the machine working myself I don't know if it should display anything at all before a successful boot completes. Basically I'm after more information before I can seriously start thinking about getting this thing going. Obviously I don't even know if the system disks are still good, let alone what sort of hardware faults exist inside... thanks for *any* help with this thing!! cheers Jules

28 years, 2 months

2
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Dick Smith System 80 S-100 Expansion Connections

by Guerney＠uq.net.au

I have just bought an almost-new condition fully kitted out Dick Smith System 80 - this was an Australian-sold clone of the TRS-80. The system consists of a console with included tape player, an S-100 expansion box and two 200K 5.25" floppy drives. The receipt dated September 1982 was in one of the boxes (all original packing) along with all connectors. The expansion box contains an extra 32K RAM (total 48K) and connecting cables to the main system, the two drives (each one a separate stock item, one "Disk 0" and the other "Disk 1") and to a Centronics printer. Price asked in a charity shop was $10 each for the two big boxes and $5 each for the two drives. Not too bad, and you can't argue too much when the money is going to a good cause! But absolutely no documentation. The basic system works OK. What I want to know is how to connect up the expansion box to the main box and the drives. The connecting cables are standard flat multi-strand cable with the Pin 1 side marked in red. But which is Pin 1 at the connection blocks? I don't want to kill this beautifully clean unit by connecting it up backwards! If someone could tell me which end of each of the connection blocks on the back of the console, on the S-100 box and on the disk drives is the Pin 1 end, I would be grateful. Phil

28 years, 2 months

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TRS-80 Model 4 (128k) for sale

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

You might if you had been had by someone in this list. If the man is a con, I think I am doing a public service here trying to stop him to strike again with somebody else. Thank you enrico lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk wrote: > > On 1998-04-07 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk > :Warning! You might get something different from what you have > :bidded for. I did. > > keep your bitching private. nobody else gives a toss. > -- > Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling > you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ========================================================

28 years, 2 months

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System/36 in the Bronx: $100

by mor＠crl.com

This came off a web classifieds page: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM SYSTEM/36 MODEL 5360, $100/OBO, Used Description MIDRANGE COMPUTER FULLY FUNCTIONAL WITH 5225 MODEL 2 PRINTER For sale by private party (718) 863-9651 fma bronx, New York 10462 -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

28 years, 2 months

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DEC RRD-40 CD-ROM

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

OK, I'm stumped. What are the switch setting for the 4-switch DIP switch on the back of a RRD-40 drive? I managed to come up with a working configuration, but how safe is SCSI address 0 under VMS? I know the Hobbyist CD at least boots through the hardware search in Standalone backup (didn't have time to install tonite). Also what's the 4th switch for? Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 2 months

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(fwd) Obsolete computers looking for a home! (fwd)

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I would note that I have already claimed these items, about a week ago, but the Olivetti things are still available. Thanks, Sam, for the heads-up. Cheers A -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 3:55 PM Subject: (fwd) Obsolete computers looking for a home! (fwd) > >For you blokes down under. > > >Plus, I have a number of Olivetti M24, M28, & M280 systems >to get rid off, same deal.

28 years, 2 months

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(fwd) Obsolete computers looking for a home! (fwd)

by dastar＠wco.com

For you blokes down under. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: R.Alphey(a)forestry.unimelb.edu.au (Russell J. Alphey) Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,aus.computers Subject: Obsolete computers looking for a home! Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 05:34:46 GMT Organization: School of Forestry, University of Melbourne It's time to clean up the spare room... These computers are available, free to a good home. Note that they are all in Melbourne, Australia. Shipping at new owner's cost! :) 1. Labtam CP/M system, with 8086 processor board add-in. Single 8" drive, with built-in monitor. 2. Micromation multiuser CP/M system. Has 4 processor boards, plus serial terminals. 20 Mb hard drive, dual 8" drives, QIC-24 tape unit. 3. 2* ??? CP/M systems, monitors have WOODEN sides! Come with processor unit, plus 2 * DISCUS 8" drives. All systems come with boot disks. Plus, I have a number of Olivetti M24, M28, & M280 systems to get rid off, same deal. Contact me by email to arrange something. I'm not going to wait too long before "dumping" these machines... R. R.Alphey(a)forestry.unimelb.edu.au -- end of forwarded message -- -- Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 2 months

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Old Data

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:04 AM 4/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've held onto machines that I would've happily given away except for the >time involved to go through the stuff on the hard disk and clean it up. [...] >What the world needs is a painless one button backup-and-clean program. Or a belief that they can turn the machine over to a reputable collector/museum who will do it for them. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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Old Data

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:25 AM 4/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Except, that people may feel it's easier (and/or safer) to just destroy the >> machine than it is to try and make sure no one can read their data. What > >It's rarely done, most people aren't that superstitious of electronic machines. Perhaps not in the past, but now that the average village idiot is using quicken and tax programs... They may not have used Dad's imsai, but they don't know that his old tax returns aren't in that old box. >> I agree that people should be responsible for their own data, but I also >> feel that we, as collectors, need to hold ourselves to a higher standard, >> so that people will feel comfortable giving us their old machines. > >If they actually gave us the machines. Most times they're swapped or sold cheaply. Whether or not they give them for free or for $, they have to feel comfortable doing it, or they won't do it. >Bad similarity...no one is paying you for confidentiality. Okay, surely you know someone to whom you don't tell anything personal because you know it'll be all over the office/neighborhood/local news within the hour. If people don't believe they can turn over their computers without having to worry about their tax returns showing up on the internet, they won't do it. >> Most of the people here probably know how to wipe a hard drive so it can't >> be read. (My best guess is a low-level format, then fill it with worthless >> data? Good thing I have nothing to hide!) But the average AOL user >> doesn't. When Grandpa passes on, you don't want the grandkids trashing all >And many have had to use level 3 read/write data destruction if they've worked for >the government. If the goverment is required to insure a clean machine to the >point of even installing a new hard disk prior to public sale, why should the >average Joe be protected in his or her sloppy handling of their private matters. >If you get right down to it they risk public viewing just by installing anything >on the hard disk and connecting to the net. I'm not advocating responsibility for the user's sake. If you care about the neighbors seeing you nekkid, pull down the damn shades. The reason I advocate it is because I don't want my neighbors boarding up their windows because they don't know if pulling down the shades is enough. I don't want people trashing significant machines because they heard about someone who knew someone who had a friend who heard about someone who gave a computer to a collector, and then those quickcam pics of the wife au naturel (that he thought he deleted) ended up on the 'net. Whether or not its true, and whether or not someone has pics like that, doesn't matter. The technoidiots will trash machines rather than take any risks. Don't believe me? Ever heard of the Good Times virus? >Not more of the one, but a picture or two of each machine. I realize you're just >working on the site but a picture really makes the site interesting to those not >familiar with the machines. A prefect example is the dual drive on a Rainbow. How >many people can even grasp the thought of putting a floppy in right way in one >slot, upside down in the other? I'm working on that. I've got 6 rolls of film to go to Price Club this week. Then I have to scan them, edit/crop/resize them, build a list of the pics (with dimensions and captions), come up with some snappy text, look for some links, and dig up the specs of the machine so I can build the web page. Whew. Don't worry, I'll get there. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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Computer Garage - Virtual Garage Sale

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>qty. 1 - Compaq Deskpro 386/20e - $20.00 > >qty. 1 - Compaq Deskpro 433i - $30.00 OK... are either of these spoken for? Do you know the stats for these? How much RAM, HDD (if any) space, disk drives, etc, and does that include a monitor? (And, if you can find it, what is the video card, etc.) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

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S34 system

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well, I'm just thinking odd thoughts right now(specifically about <converting a CB radio I have to the 10m amateur band), but if you can If you need a hand I can help with that. <figure out all the output voltages that the computer uses, than it <shouldn't be too hard to either build several power supplies to handle th <large amounts of power it needs, or perhaps re-wind the main power <transformers(or just replace them with somethign that has the same output <Which brings me to another thought, what IS the output voltage of the pow <supply/transformer(s)? And of course, if the hard(and floppy) drive motor <need 220v, you can also look for replacement motors that run on 110v. <That's what I'm going to need to do for my Series/1. Not that trivial as the system has a fair amount of pwer sequencing and power good logic tied to the front panel and power system. besides where to you find a 110Vac to 5V@ 30+amps floating around. That and any fans and motors that may use 220v. THere is a lack of data on that and no way to power it to determine if thats is the case. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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PDP 11/53 help needed

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

This was on the Obsolete Computer helpline and I just knew someone here could write this person to help... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lucien stevens <lust(a)village.uunet.be> belgium - Tuesday, April 07, 1998 at 15:52:57 i have a dec pdp11/53 can someone tell me how to connect an ascii terminal or a pc with a terminal program to make the pdp11 work. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 2 months

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NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by peacock＠simconv.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: J. Maynard Gelinas [mailto:maynard@jmg.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 2:06 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: NOS Bare Boards: What to do? > > BTW: anyone remember a BYTE article on the SwTPC sometime in > '78 regarding a very eary voice recognition and voice synth system > connected to house controls? I seem to remember that the upshot of it > was that it didn't work well and the poor author wound up showing off > his undershorts because the system misrecognized a command and opened > up the garage door at an inopportune time.... Maybe it was a Kilobaud > issue???? I'm pretty hazy on this, but I remember it made a big > impression on me as a kid. Yes I remember the article (it was humor) because a friend asked if I could build the same thing for him. I think it was Popular Electronics, there were no tech details so I'm sure it wasn't BYTE or KILOBAUD. Anyway, I was skeptical that it was real so I told my friend to contact the author before I took any of his money. My friend contacted the author for details. The author admitted he had embellished the capabilities and the article was more fiction than fact, although theoretically possible to do at the time. Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

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S34 system

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I got to meet Max today and see the S34. Nice machine is fair condition. His problem is that it's wired for 208 and from what I could observe all the transformer primaries are limited to the 200V range (208/220/240). Can some one up on S34s confirm that? All the power comes from three feroresonant transformers (CVTs) which explains the 580v warning (across the resonating capacitor). It would seem the only way to power it off 117v line is tansformer of the 1000-2000va size. I suspect the smaller will work as this machine while complete is not "loaded". It's biggest disk is an internal 69mb 8" with what appears to be a DC spindle. Anyhow for power it expects a single phase 208 L-L connection so a auto transformer may do it. It's been a while since I've seens linear regulators or possibly low voltage switchers of this size. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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DEC 11/70...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > My favorite graph on the data sheet is "Number of pins remaining <> > vs. number of socket insertions". (Wasn't this originally published <> > in an April 1 issue of _Electronics_ in the 70's?) <> <> And the Vff .vs. Iff graph, complete with burn-out just after 6.3V.... < <I wonder what fraction of new EE graduates today would recognize the <significance of 6.3 VAC? or 12.6vac or historically 12.6,12.6,12.6,35,50 (all Vac). Allison

28 years, 2 months

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