- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>> I used a TTY ASR-33 as a printer for my PET years ago. My memory is >> that if I left the receiver open circuit, i yammered away printing >> nulls; if I shorted out the loop it didn't. I interfaced it using one >> transistor - no power supply was necessary. >> >> +---------------------- >> | >> OUT b |/c >> -------/\/\/\/---------| NPN TTY >> |\e >> PET | >> -------------------------+---------------------- >> GND > > > For I've got a Kludge > And a good Kludge too ;-) > > Seriously, that works. I've done it myself a few times. But it's not the > official way to drive a teletype - the external device should source the > loop current. And I prefer to teach people the right way and let them > find out the kludges for themselves. Oh, yes. Absolutely. But I was disagreeing with your assertion that while 5V might do for the transmit loop, you'd "need" 12V for the receive loop. >> Note: I never interfaced the TTY transmitter - not even for reading >> paper tape (don't know why not) IIRC, one of the problems I had was the high resistance of the transmit loop - many kilohms, I think. It probably was mostly contact resistance and highly non-linear i.e. apparent resistance would be less at higher currents), but I wouldn't like to use only 5V. I'd suggest a reasonable sized decoupling capacitor to get rid of contact noise, too - say, up to 1 microfarad. > Err, because the ASR33 reader is horrible and mangles tapes? You have a > Trend, don't you? This was at least 4 years before I ever _saw_ any other paper tape stuff. Long before I got the Trend. Or even my little DSI box. (DSI = Data Specialties Inc. They made a 30cps reader/punch unit that was sold in the UK by a small company called Teleprinter Equipment Ltd. Never met either of them anywhere else.) Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> It interests me why some one wants a particular machine especially <> since you do not seem to know much about it. < <Well, I can't speak for the person you were replying to, but in my <case I'm often interested in machines I know little to nothing about <because I'm interested in learning about them. Although you can <learn a lot without one, it can help if you have one to explore. That is a good reason. The fear I have and have encountered is people lusting for an XZ21 and when they get it find they are totally in over their head to do programming or hardware troubleshooting often required. The NS* was a good machine but it was S100 and beyond some general things was not a pop in a board and play thing like PCs. I get real scared when some one asks me if a VGA monitor works with a Altair or did it require a XT style keyboard! Allison

28 years, 1 month

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I will say Amen to that, considering that I just mailed 9 boxes of MS-DOS 3.3 which were still shrinkwrapped and beign thrown away by my school. THat has to be $500 right there that could have been used on pencils. I won't complain about the fate the DOS 3.1 boxes met... > >> >> Personally, I believe the "computer literacy in schools is everything" >> movement is a result of inept teachers and a haywire NEA. > >Amen! > >> students should be introduced to computers (read: word >> processors/calculators) until the first year of high school after >> mastering basic reading, comprehension, writing and math skills. > > >The problem with introducing elementary and middle school kids to >computers so early is that they either a) know more than the lab admin, or >b) aren't allowed to use them in any constructive way. I'm only in the >tenth grade, but I've already seen seven new labs installed in area schools. >The school districts almost ALWAYS spend WAY too much on new computers, >mainly from the worst vendors, only to have to replace them when the >warranty runs out (with very little usage, BTW). The computers simply >aren't used until high school, when word processing/database, programming, >and other such courses are offered. Anything before is mainly a waste of >money. > >What about the 'net? I don't understand why people think that the >internet is such a great "tool" that will help schools. Just do a search >for "barbie" on Yahoo. Or, for that matter, try "video" or something >general. Especially considering that most schools don't use any >Internet blocking software.. > >It takes most people a long time to get used to using search engines in such a >way to get what they want. Most people in my school don't have any idea how to >use the 'net, and could care less. That is the general attitude at most >schools that I have been to. > >In other words, most of the money spent on computer equipment is a waste. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Netscape needs Classic Computer Help!

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

If you haven't seen the news yet, I found out thanks to http://slashdot.org , Microsoft is pulling one of their dirtiest stunts ever in their attempt to destroy Netscape. If anyone doesn't think Microsoft is evil this should convince them, unless they are niave enough to think Microsoft isn't behind this! In what would appear to be a result of their assimilation of Wang last month, Wang has announced a Lawsuit against Netscape for Patent infringement. Basically Wang is claiming to have "Save As..." patented?!?!?! For an explanation see http://www.mozilla.org/legal/wangsuit.html I also like the Graphic and comment at http://www.mozilla.org The problem is, Wang is sueing them for something that almost EVERY piece of software available does! Netscape needs examples of software that do the things in the patent prior to March 30th, 1983. See the below information. Wang might be able to use this to get a Court injunction to prevent Netscape from distributing Navigator?!?! A lot of the Free Software fanatics are seeing this as a direct attack against free software by Microsoft, since Netscape just released the Navigator source code. Zane Here is the portion of the statement that is the most important: ----------- Wang is asserting that a patent that it holds for a video text system is infringed by the Netscape browser. Netscape is vigorously defending the lawsuit. Wang contends the patent discloses the invention of: Saving web pages retrieved from a server using "Save As" (See Claim 23, 24), Bookmarks (Claims 20-22), Saving files with file extensions and then retrieving the pages and decoding the files based on the file extension (Claim 38). The patent was filed in 1984. We believe the patent is noninfringed, unenforceable, and invalid based on, among other things, prior art such as the Alto & Star computers from Xerox Parc, Terminal Emulators, connectivity software prevelant in the the early 80s such as CrossTalk, Unix symbolic links (ln -s), and various other "video text" systems like Telidon, Prestel, Mupid used in the late 70s, early 80s. It's easy to say "of course that's invalid", but what is required are specific references to prior art. If you know of additional prior art publications, software programs, books, or systems in existence --prior to March 30, 1983-- which disclose and/or describe the claimed elements send us a message. Send responses or questions to mozilla.org. Please include the following information: Name of the Publication or System Date of the Publication or Date System Was Publicly Known Features it Discloses Where Can the Publication or System Be Found (ie. university, reference library, company, contact person) ---------- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 1 month

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OS/2 Errors..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Qoo, Tim! >Wadda hell... If you say so. ;-) Anyway good to see you subscribed. >>OS/2 !! SYS01475 >>OS/2 !! SYS02027 >> >>So anyway, it freezes like that. This, BTW, is on a 2.1GB HDD, with no >>other OS'es currently installed. >It may be 2.1G that causes the problem - if it is used as single partition. >I heard that Warp3 isn't too well in handling big partitions. Try breaking >it into smaller pieces (<1G) Oh, yeah, that's why I gave specifically 2.1GB. So I'm going to have the boot manager, 120MB for Warp, 700 for Linux and the rest for Windows (remember, I need to run some Win32 apps, not by choice.) >hope that helps, >-andy Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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North Star Horizon

by staponski＠swpa.gov

Kai- I am interested in purchasing the North Star Horizon. I am not local and don't have a trade so would be a cash deal. Do you have any info about the machine such as amount of memory, type of floppy(ies), last known operating system, hard drive (if any), keyboard, monitor, and condition (working/nonworking). Thanks Randy Staponski

28 years, 1 month

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Oh, what a tangled web...

by mor＠crl.com

With the recent discussion on the MTPRO price guide, the ZX80 bashing, and a bit further back the Enrico Tedeschi flame festival, I found it quite amusing to run across the following entry at eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13957826 For those without a web browser, I'll just say that this is a book on Sinclair computer history, being auctioned by the author of the MTPRO price guide (who goes by the handle "ClassicComputing" at eBay). Most remarkable of all, the book was authored by a gentleman named Enrico Tedeschi. -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

28 years, 1 month

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Can we talk about computers at least?

by bill.sheehan＠stoneweb.com

I'd love to check out the MIT Flea Market. When and where is it? "J. Maynard Gelinas" <maynard(a)jmg.com> on 05/14/98 01:15:48 PM Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC) Subject: Re: Can we talk about computers at least? Well Agreed! Sorry I haven't been active in the list much... between work and a family illness I've been _busy_! BTW: Anyone planning on attending the MIT Flea market this Sunday? I doubt prices are going to be reasonable what with that $100 PDP-11/23 last month. --jmg > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> > Subject: Can we talk about computers at least? > > People. > > Could we move the discussion about the perceived woeful inadequacies of > the current state of public education to a more appropriate forum? Like > say a usenet group? Or a new mailing list? Basically anywhere but here, > where it really does not belong?

28 years, 1 month

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Can we talk about computers at least?

by dastar＠wco.com

People. Could we move the discussion about the perceived woeful inadequacies of the current state of public education to a more appropriate forum? Like say a usenet group? Or a new mailing list? Basically anywhere but here, where it really does not belong? Thanks in advance. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Classics in Chicago area?

by archive＠navix.net

This is for those of you in the Chicago area, and anyone else that might be able to help me. I am just writing to ask if some of you might be able to direct to some good classic computer sources in the Chicago, Illinois area. I am leaving for Chicago for the weekend, and will have some free time to browse thrift shops, etc. Any place that might have a good stock of old 8-bitters? Thanks, CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

28 years, 1 month

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OS/2 Errors..

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-14 05:40:03 EDT, you write: << Sorry, as it seems that I've become the maker of off-topic content, but now after I've installed OS/2 (first 6 disks) Warp 3, using FAT (High Performance File System didn't work), I get: OS/2 !! SYS01475 OS/2 !! SYS02027 >> if i remember correctly, that's the os2 version of: non system disk or disk error. you might have to remove the floppy from a: drive or do a sysinstx command to sys the hard drive. david

28 years, 1 month

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OS/2 Errors..

by andy＠topaz.kiev.ua

Qoo, Tim! At 12:38 14.05.98 +0300, you wrote: >after I've installed OS/2 (first 6 disks) Warp 3, using FAT (High >Performance File System didn't work), I get: Wadda hell... >OS/2 !! SYS01475 >OS/2 !! SYS02027 > >So anyway, it freezes like that. This, BTW, is on a 2.1GB HDD, with no >other OS'es currently installed. It may be 2.1G that causes the problem - if it is used as single partition. I heard that Warp3 isn't too well in handling big partitions. Try breaking it into smaller pieces (<1G) hope that helps, -andy

28 years, 1 month

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Hello - I'm a new reader /STUDENTS

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Despite my former comments I'd say computers do have a place in education as do television. I went through most of school as an avid non-writer, managed good grades despite it even in english so long as writing was not required. It was word processing or actually a simple editor and printer that open the door to writing, somehow made it less painful. It didn't help my bizzare grammer or spelling but at least I wrote. The catalyst was writing code and having to document it. Did computers help, yes. It wasn't pacman or clicking icons just using the tool for what it can do best. What was best was simply allowing me to bang down words and then peice them together in some sensible way. As to what computer to use, old! why old, no matter what they have new now it will be old it a few years when they have to apply it. It's better they understand so that the knowledge can be applied rather than keystrokes. Students would do better to learn VI and ED than the latest version of QARK or Word. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Everything about Apple ///

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>Seem to remember I had the same problem when I tried to find out info >about my /// a few years back... back then WAP had no web site, email or >anything that I could find, which made life difficult for those of us >stuck in the UK... hopefully things have progressed a little by now! > >(If you find a web address could you post it here please?) http://www.wap.org/ -- Kirk

28 years, 1 month

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3.5" Drive for Apple ???

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>I did pick up another Apple peripheral at the same time, which may offer a >clue. It's a Modem 1200, Model A9M0301. The "clue", assuming it came >from the same source, is the 8-pin mini-DIN connector. I don't know what >uses that kind of connection for the serial port. > The //gs and Macs do, maybe the later //c or //c+ >Did the Apple 3.5" Drive have a mechanical eject? Fully manual, I mean, >not just a push-button that tells the motorized ejection mechanism to wake >up. Very un-Mac-like. The manual eject was only on the drives designed for the // series. -- Kirk

28 years, 1 month

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Everything about Apple ///

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> [wap]... >>Thanks! We'll jump right over the the web pa....oh, you didn't post one. >>Ok then we'll just call the phone numbe...oops, you didn't give us that >>either. Ok, well I guess we'll just have to do it the hard way and write >>a letter to...hmmm, no physical address. :*) Seem to remember I had the same problem when I tried to find out info about my /// a few years back... back then WAP had no web site, email or anything that I could find, which made life difficult for those of us stuck in the UK... hopefully things have progressed a little by now! (If you find a web address could you post it here please?) cheers, Jules >

28 years, 1 month

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3.5" Drive for Apple ???

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Greetings, Last week, along with a boxload of other stuff, I picked up an external 3.5" floppy drive that apears to be intended for Apple machines. It's a DS800 from DataSpace Corporation. It physically plugs into my Apple //c, but I can't get the machine to recognize it. The drive makes a noise when I power up the computer, but that's all. Attempts to access S6, D2 or any other slot and drive combination doesn't get anywhere. It DOES respond to my Mac 512K, though. I plugged it into that machine and shoved a Mac-formatted disk in it, and an icon and open window popped up. I don't think the drive can be intended for the Mac, though, because it's got a MECHANICAL eject mechanism. In fact I was able to eject that Mac disk (write protected, thankfully ;) ) and the Mac didn't notice. Is there something I need to do to get my //c to recognize the drive? Or is it intended for use on a //gs? Or did this company make a line of dangerous Mac peripherals in an attempt to give the platform a bad name for an overabundance of disk corruptions? ;) Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca

28 years, 1 month

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OS/2 Errors..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sorry, as it seems that I've become the maker of off-topic content, but now after I've installed OS/2 (first 6 disks) Warp 3, using FAT (High Performance File System didn't work), I get: OS/2 !! SYS01475 OS/2 !! SYS02027 So anyway, it freezes like that. This, BTW, is on a 2.1GB HDD, with no other OS'es currently installed. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Ali Babas cave

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

I just spent Saturday morning in an Ali Babas cave of old computers ranging form a huge 6ft tall by 10 ft wide analogue computer through a few DEC machines (see below, and old ICT 1301, a Telefunken TR4 a burroughs 1800, a few French minicomputers and quite a number of unidentified systems. Included were lots of tape and disk drives, boxes of documentationa nd software. Just a dream come true! The collection belongs to ACONIT : "l'Association pour le Conservation de Informatique et Telematique" I guess that's pretty clear even to non french speakers. It has been accumulated over since 1985 and is currently stored in a warehouse in a town called Voiron near Grenoble. ACONIT has acquired larger and more convenient premisies in Grenoble itself and will be moving the collection there later this year and we plan on setting up workshops etc to restore as many of these systems as possible. Among the DEC machines I saw was a complete PDP-9. How rare are these? Anyways, if anyone is in the Grenoble region later on in the year drop me a line and I can provide a personally conducted guided tour of what we have. I'll keep you all informed of what we are doing as thngs develop. Regards, Hans B Pufal

28 years, 1 month

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:44 AM 5/13/98 -0400, you wrote: > > Personally, I believe the "computer literacy in schools is everything" > movement is a result of inept teachers and a haywire NEA. Here in the > Washington, D.C. area I have read reports of teachers pushing > 'invented' spelling as a method to avoid hurting the challenged > student's self esteem. Educators seem to think the student will Ummm... I don't doubt someone came up with this, but I doubt that it is widespread; If one teacher does it, the media pick it up and report it as if everyone was doing it, and of course the public loves to think that all teachers are idiots just goofing off until they can retire. I think it's jealousy over this (imaginary) summer vacation. Most teachers are extremely hard working, committed educators who put a lot of their own time and money into their classes. My girlfriend (admittedly, one of the most insane) arrives at school before 7am (everyday) and rarely leaves before 5pm. She spends her evenings and weekends doing schoolwork. She spends her summers planning the next year and building various curriculum. And she works with the other teachers all the time, so she's not alone. The problem is partially a lack of funding for schools and very a lack of adequate parenting. Rachel sent home some work for the kids to do with their parents one time; she got one back where the father had written (on both sides, in big, red letters) that his kid can't do such advanced work (they'd been doing it in class all week) and that "I AM NOT A TEACHER". With a father like that, it's a wonder that the kid knows how to go to the bathroom. There are other kids: one whose parents come to school at lunch time to take him to the bathroom and feed him his lunch (first grade, no kidding), and a kid who is almost completely blind, yet even after the social worker took him to the eye doctor (with her own money) still doesn't have glasses. Kids whose parents beat them, who are being raised by grandparents because their parents don't want them, kids who see people shot in real life, as well as on TV. And there are kids who are taught to hate because of skin color or religion, or whatever. Kids that are taught that the proper response to a disagreement is hit. Kids that are ignored at home, left on their own with a babysitter or nanny, or worse, to wander the neighborhood. Kids that are allowed, even encouraged, if it will shut them up, to watch stuff on telly that even *I* won't watch. Sure, there are bad teachers out there, just as there are bad mechanics, programmers, doctors, etc. But most of them work harder than probably anybody on this list, and probably for a lot less money. But parents don't even take responsibility for checking out the teachers. There are also different styles of teaching; you wouldn't drop your volvo off at a Land Rover mechanic, would you? But most parents don't bother to see (or ask) if a teacher's style is the best for their kids. Most parents pay more attention to whether or not their kids have brushed their teeth than whether or not they've done their homework. Don't put the blame on the teachers without putting it on the parents as well. > in software will correct them. What a cop out. I don't believe > students should be introduced to computers (read: word > processors/calculators) until the first year of high school after > mastering basic reading, comprehension, writing and math skills. Computers are a very valuable tool for teaching those very skills. To deny kids access to them is to slow them down. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>At 07:06 PM 5/13/98 +0300, you wrote: >>to learn anything in perticular, except for stuff pertaining to... anyway, I >>think that here's a good time to give students a choice to know what they're >>going to do. I, for instance, want to specilize in Computers. Spending >>time learning "Pre-Algebra" (Just spent 2 class periods making a protractor >>accurate to 90' from a piece of paper.) isn't helpful, at least not that > >Okay, so maybe you're a wiz in math/science, but you've got two >misspellings in there (pArticular and speciAlize) so perhaps you should be >concentrating on grammar/literature/etc? 8^) I'm not a wiz in math/science at all. That's the point. I'm not learning anything, and neither are the 14 or so people that I really know in the class. In a class where 2/3 isn't learning jack SHOULD tell the teacher something. >>>High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed >>>to find paying work. >> >>I say that some students should be given the oppertunity to do this in Jr. >>High. Not everyone, but some people. After all, by this time, you know if >>you're not going to be a chemist, programmer, or anything. > >Well, in Jr. High I was all set to be a private dick... er, detective. >Early high school, I was ready to head for Harvard Law School. Late high >school, the plan was U-Ill/Urbana-Champaign for under Grad Elect/Elect >Engineering, then MIT for grad school. During college (SF City College) I >was going to join the FBI. After dropping out of college, I wanted to be a >synthesist, or maybe an inventor. Now, I want to be a politician. > >So when is it you know what you want to be when you grow up? Computers. Entrepreneur. I'll start my own company developing software. I'd start out with simple stuff, such as an e-mail client, and grow. Another good thing to do (at least now) is to start a web page/Virtual Community. That's changed a single time since Kindergarten, where I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer, seeing as how I had zip experience with computers. My idea's been the same for 5 years now. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:59 PM 5/12/98 +0000, you wrote: >Apple and 8bitters of it's ilks that is found in K-12 has it's places >because these are what excels at teaching kids materials but in high >school level, we need to convert guys over to real things like >windows and 486 boxens, unix and like using word processing and >speadsheets, such yak yak..of most types not including 100% dumb M$ NONONONONONONONO!!! Word Processing and Spreadsheets, even 'net access can be taught just fine on 8-bit machines, or DOS-based PC's. The younger kids are the ones who can profit most from the non-textual interfaces that the newer machines can offer. To over-simplify: Older kids can read; they can learn to type commands. Younger kids can't read; they need pictures (icons). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Personally, I believe the "computer literacy in schools is everything" movement is a result of inept teachers and a haywire NEA. Here in the Washington, D.C. area I have read reports of teachers pushing 'invented' spelling as a method to avoid hurting the challenged student's self esteem. Educators seem to think the student will eventually learn to spell correctly later in life or that spell-checks in software will correct them. What a cop out. I don't believe students should be introduced to computers (read: word processors/calculators) until the first year of high school after mastering basic reading, comprehension, writing and math skills. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/12/98 9:47 PM When was this thing with "computer literacy in schools is everything" started? I like computers in schools, but I am tired of looking at proposed plans to replace 5 MORE classrooms with computer labs. Is this a classic thing? Would you in general say that computers have affected education (keeping the discussion OnT, of course). > >> snoball wrote: >> > >> > Hi, I am a teacher here at the local elementary school in Humble, TX. To be >> > honest, the computer department here at the school is rather pathetic, two >> > Apple //e's and an XT that was donated that I can't get to work. To be >> > frank, these kids are going into a world where they are illiterate in the >> > basic workings of a computer. I hate to sound desperate, but I have just >> > exausted all leads I know to take on the matter. I saw your ad and thought >> >> Don't panic. Here in New Jersey, the kids are all experts at >> Nintendo (and some of the brighter lights at hacking security), >> but damned few can actually read the manuals. Remember, the >> most important component of "computer literacy" is "literacy". >> If the kids can read, they can learn computers. If they can't, >> there's not much else worth teaching them except to pee on the >> side of the dumpster the cops aren't watching. (I may be a bit >> prejudiced on the side of reading over computers -- I only have >> fifty-odd computers, I've got [half bought new] several thousand >> books, mostly the science fiction I've loved since before the >> "New Math" was introduced to my grade school [after I'd had the >> benefit of learning the stuff that worked].) >> -- >> Ward Griffiths >> They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >> Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. >> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May12.214741.1767.41390; Tue, 12 May 1998 21:47:41 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id SAA20582; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:45:24 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id SAA10688 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:43:42 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f185.hotmail.com [207.82.251.74]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id SAA03234 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:43:41 -0700 Received: (qmail 23636 invoked by uid 0); 13 May 1998 01:43:38 -0000 Received: from 207.78.94.40 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:43:38 PDT Message-Id: <19980513014338.23635.qmail(a)hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:43:38 PDT Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION Content-Type: text/plain X-Originating-IP: [207.78.94.40] X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 1 month

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Hello - I'm a new reader /STUDENTS

by whayes＠snark.wizard.com

> Are there any students besides Derek on the list? > > I am a fourth year electrical engineering major here at > Oklahoma State. > > --Scott I'm a terminal student of the college of Hard Knocks.... Graduating when they pry my cold dead fingers from the keyboard. -- Bill #include <std.disclaimer.h> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | whayes(a)wizard.com | Powered by FreeBSD | finger for pgp public key. | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Key fingerprint = 54 AC A0 8E F0 B6 94 6B 93 6B 34 D7 EB 13 78 BC

28 years, 1 month

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Apple and 8bitters of it's ilks that is found in K-12 has it's places <because these are what excels at teaching kids materials but in high <school level, we need to convert guys over to real things like <windows and 486 boxens, unix and like using word processing and <speadsheets, such yak yak..of most types not including 100% dumb M$ <stuff. Let me compress that: Elementary school, how to learn. (language, reading, arithmetic) Intermeadiate school, how to find answers to questions and communicate them. High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed to find paying work. Computers are a part of life and M$ stuff is unfortunatly reality we live with every day. The unfortunate part is I meet kids at the grocer that play doom, surf the net and can't count change. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>At 03:28 AM 5/13/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote (more or less): > >Perhaps Someone should make a web site with reports of classic >system sale prices, in order to balance the tales of $500 PETs >with $5 PETs. Like anything else, so many other factors must >be considered: rarity, condition, history, etc. > >- John Actually, David Greelish (of "historically brewed" and the "classic computing society") is attempting just such an online price guide. His efforts so far can be seen on: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm >On Tue, 12 May 1998, The Adept wrote: > >> I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the >> following: >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13839197 >> >> I'll save the surprise for you who want to check it out (it's a >> Commodore Educator 64) > >Holy Crap! I should just sell my damn collection at the prices some of >these goons are paying. I could pay off all my bills AND put in that pool >I've always wanted, plus put a down payment on the Viper. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: >dastar(a)siconic.com >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] > yeah well a fool is born every 1 second dont they say? or was it a fool and thier money soon part......... man I could get that Cadilliac Ive always wanted if i sold my collection......

28 years, 1 month

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ASR33

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Hi All, I recently acquired an ASR33 and I'm in need of some assitance in order to be able to let it work against my Unix box. At the back of the powersupply there is a terminal strip with a number of lugs. Question is, which lugs to use, the unit is an UCC-6 (for private wire setups). Other problem is which voltage to use for the current loop to rs232, I have a converter, and uses 5 volt maximum, and do not know if that will work. If not, does someone then have a proper schematic? Thanks, Ed

28 years, 1 month

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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Well aside from the fact that we're _all_ students whether or not >we're matriculated somewhere -- Tim Hotze is around here someplace >and I'm pretty sure he's not officially in college yet. Far from it, unfortunaetly. BTW, just for other students, or ex-students on the list: Yesterday I had my science fair project: Linux Vs. Windows. Now, I had two or three problems: 1) Couldn't seem to "dumb it down" enough to get the judges to understand. 2) Presentation wasn't really "flashy", more like a scientific paper. 3) The paper was too "dumbed down" to actually say what I wanted it to say. I couldn't do what I wanted to so that it would make sense to the judges. >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I am. In 7th grade. Still think that jr. high school's a COMPLETE waste of time, especially for geeks (or people like me, who like to consider themselves geeks, but probably couldn't make it...), at our school. No UNIX, no programming, not even a 32 bit OS!!! (And that's even counting Windows!!!!) All I really can do is do what I want in Computers... (but with the software that they've got available, the most I can do is type a word doc. instead of write an e-mail... TONS of freedom there...) Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Daniel A. Seagraves <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 7:14 PM Subject: Re: Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS >[Any students?] > >I'm a high school student... >-------

28 years, 1 month

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:06 PM 5/13/98 +0300, you wrote: >to learn anything in perticular, except for stuff pertaining to... anyway, I >think that here's a good time to give students a choice to know what they're >going to do. I, for instance, want to specilize in Computers. Spending >time learning "Pre-Algebra" (Just spent 2 class periods making a protractor >accurate to 90' from a piece of paper.) isn't helpful, at least not that Okay, so maybe you're a wiz in math/science, but you've got two misspellings in there (pArticular and speciAlize) so perhaps you should be concentrating on grammar/literature/etc? 8^) >>High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed >>to find paying work. > >I say that some students should be given the oppertunity to do this in Jr. >High. Not everyone, but some people. After all, by this time, you know if >you're not going to be a chemist, programmer, or anything. Well, in Jr. High I was all set to be a private dick... er, detective. Early high school, I was ready to head for Harvard Law School. Late high school, the plan was U-Ill/Urbana-Champaign for under Grad Elect/Elect Engineering, then MIT for grad school. During college (SF City College) I was going to join the FBI. After dropping out of college, I wanted to be a synthesist, or maybe an inventor. Now, I want to be a politician. So when is it you know what you want to be when you grow up? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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Interesting c64 usage

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:41 AM 5/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >Did you ask if he added one too many zeros? Obviously the guy is heavy into >hallucenogenic drugs...The Commie itself is worth *maybe* $40 and the mixer is >worth maybe another $200 if your lucky. I have seen and done some things with >those obscure little breadboxes though that most people would never think >possible. Ummm... I don't dispute the commie value (perhaps a tad high?) but a 24-track (or was it 32?) 8-bus mixer with automation for $200? Tell me where -- I'll buy it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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EduComp Rant (OT, Was: RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:43 PM 5/12/98 PDT, you wrote: >When was this thing with "computer literacy in schools is everything" >started? I like computers in schools, but I am tired of looking at >proposed plans to replace 5 MORE classrooms with computer labs. Is >this a classic thing? Would you in general say that computers have >affected education (keeping the discussion OnT, of course). Well, I'm shooting from the hip here, but I do have some experience in this area. The idea of "computer labs" comes from IMO two things: 1) The idea of teaching "computers" as a separate subject and 2) the inability for schools to afford computers for every classroom. Looking at these in turn, "computers" as a subject in itself *may* have been a valid concept *at one time* (i.e., with some of the machines we deal with) but now is no longer an issue. Kids today have very little problem with the concepts involved in running a program (it's the same as sticking in a nintendo cartridge) or using a mouse (aka joystick) etc. Certainly, programming is a separate issue, but not everyone needs to learn C or Java or even Basic, just as not everyone needs to learn how to rebuild a transmission or tune a piano. As for schools not being able to afford computers, well heck, they can't even afford pencils and paper. I kid you not. Every fall, I get woken up at 7am to be first in line at Target when the Crayons/folders/pencil boxes/pencils/scissors/etc. go on sale (every week, it seems -- <groan>) so that my girlfriend can buy the supplies she wants for her classroom on sale *with her own money*. So, yes, most schools can't afford computers, in general, let alone enough for each classroom. So, what to do? Should they even bother? I think, based on Rachel's experiences, that the answer is a resounding *YES*, teachers should scrounge and steal and swindle as many computers as they can for their schools/classrooms. But not to teach "computers". They should be a tool, just like any other, to teach reading, math, science, comprehension, etc. And so I'll go against the grain and say it's more important in the lower grades (K-3 or so) to have computers available than in the upper grades. Upper grades, junior and high school especially, can do just as well with older machines as they can with the newer ones. PC-Write under DOS is an excellent solution for writing term papers or book reports, and will teach the concepts of word processing just as well as the latest version of MSWord. Qbasic, Cobol, and C/C++ for DOS are all just as good as their GUI counterparts for learning how to write a program; Once you understand the idea, switching to another language is a piece of cake. I write all my web pages in PC-Write (and I'm damn proud of some of them) and often use Arachne (DOS browser) to check them. Non-readers, however, can make better use of newer technology. Programs like the Playroom, Millie's Math House, and such really get the kids interested and having a good time; they don't realize (or care) that they're actually learning to read or count or what-have-you. This is the real value of computers in education. Mind you, older computers can be used here too, (the original version of the Playroom ran fine on a Mac Plus), but if you've got an old XT and a 486, give the upper grades the XT and the wee ones the 486. As to the craze for pushing computer literacy at the expense of general literacy, I think that older folks (30+) look at technology and how it was new to them, and how it is becoming so pervasive in our society, and they're scared. Scared that their kids will be as unprepared as they were. (What they don't understand, of course, is that that very pervasiveness will make kids take the technology in stride: My niece could work the VCR (play, ffwd, rwd, eject) at 1.5years; she's a wiz on the computer) Add to that the media and the politicians who love to play on the public's fears and work them into a frenzy to serve their own purposes and the corporate world who just want to sell more *stuff*... Computers have affected education, both for good and bad (like most anything.) They allow teachers to come up with fun worksheets that teach, quickly and easily; they can help kids that couldn't learn to read finally do it; they allow kids to work independantly at their own speed, allowing the teacher to work with the kids that need the most help. But, they also cause distractions, can be abused as babysitters by lesser teachers, and can displace funding and space for other, more needed supplies and equipment. Overall, the benefits of computers in the schools (as elsewhere, IMO) *FAR* outweigh the problems. Now the problem with older computers in the classrooms is not that they're not useful, it's that they're not adequately supported for the majority of non-computer-literate teachers. (Teachers know how to teach; they don't know how to do a low-level format on a CP/M hard drive.) So, all you folks on this list, who know what you're doing, call up your local schools and see if they have any [older] computers that they need help putting to use. > honest, the computer department here at the school is rather > pathetic, two Apple //e's and an XT that was donated that I > can't get to work. Apple //e's are fine for teaching BASIC programming and Word processing, and I know there are educational programs available for the younger kids, too. (Right Sam?) That XT should be repairable, and would make a great text-editing station or could be put to use in math classes running Lotus 1-2-3 or Excel. But, we've got a teacher who can't put them to use, but they don't have the skills/knowledge to do so. So, are there any collectors in/around Humble TX that can help out? P.S., I have my girlfriend working on a list of all the EduSoftware she has and what it's good at (and how good it is) to be put on a web page, so that someone who gets a computer for their classroom can see what software works and will run. (All her computers are Mac IIci or less (68030 or lower) (though we've got one IIci with an '040 board in it to go in, as soon as I get a chance to clean up the hard drive and such.)) >>> prejudiced on the side of reading over computers -- I only have >>> fifty-odd computers, I've got [half bought new] several thousand >>> books, mostly the science fiction I've loved since before the Well, I've only got about a 1000 books, and about 100 computers, but there's a lot more in the house (my folks had a whole wall of bookshelves put in when they bought the house). I too would say that if you can't read/write (communicate)/count, a computer's not going to do you much good in the long run -- it can't do that for you. (In fact, it will get you to do more of the above.) Anyway, sorry for the ultra-long rant... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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RSX-11 Disk Images anyone?

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi all, > The relevant documentation is "MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual", > AA-L619A-TK, and "Storage System Diagnostics And Utility Protocol", > AA-L620A-TK, which in turn are parts of the UDA50 Programmer's > Documentation Kit (QP-905-GZ). My copy is version 1.2, April 1982. anyone has this documents here, and don't need it anymore ? thanks, emanuel

28 years, 1 month

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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

OK, the other chips are: Hitachi HD74LS32P 367AP 240P 164P MB74LS00 138 TI J549X SN74LS541N The card has a weird logo: A large S, progressively narrowing toward the top. Could someone tell me about the actual drive? >They're probably TTL buffers/address decoding logic. Can you post the >numbers (which probably start 74LS) and we'll try to identify them and >guess likely functions. > >My guess is that this is some kind of custom parallel interface. Put the >8255 into Mode 2 and you've got a bidirectional data path on port A and >control lines on the other 2 ports. That's the most likely setup >(although it might be something totally different, like using one port >for input and another for output). > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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PS/2 30 architecture

by pjoules＠enterprise.net

I hope that this is marginally on topic - the technology is over 10 years old and it is about using an old machine even if the OS is brand new. I have a PS/2 Model 30 and am taking part in testing the ELKS port of Linux to the XT architecture. On the PS/2 ELKS cannot see any keystrokes, having booted OK. Does anyone (Tony?) have a techref for this machine and if so what is the difference between this and a 'normal' XT. I am thinking that perhaps the keyboard buffer may be at a different place in memory thus DOS, using the BIOS, can see it but we can't by looking directly at the hardware. TIA Pete

28 years, 1 month

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FW: DECStation 2100 help needed

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found this on Usenet. Can anyone help out? If so, please respond directly to the author of the message. Thanks. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Wed, 13 May 98 15:22:55 CST, in comp.unix.ultrix you wrote: >>From: Mike.Hoff(a)CRHA-Health.Ab.Ca (Mike Hoff) >>Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix >>Subject: Old DECstation >>Date: Wed, 13 May 98 15:22:55 CST >>Organization: Unorganized. >>Lines: 10 >>Distribution: world >>Message-ID: <This.644(a)Somewhere.COM> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: veena.cc.uregina.ca >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!ais.net!newsfeed.wli.net!news.he.net!news.pagesat.net!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!news.uregina.ca!(a)somewhere.com >> >> >>Sorry to bother you, but I'm not sure who to talk to (and Digital wasn't >>much help). I have an old Decstation 2100 dug out of the basement - is >>this worth anything? Any idea where this equipment could be taken for >>repairs and OS help? Any information you can give me would be >>appreciated. >> >>Please reply to Mike.Hoff(a)CRHA-Health.Ab.Ca directly as I do not have >>Usenet access from my office. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 1 month

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OS/2 Warp 3 Help... (Yes, off topic...)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK... remember that Arthur J. Carp fellow... well, I got a copy of Warp 3... 3.5" disks. (It's been a while...) Anyway, this is semi-on topic, as OS/2's a pretty good story, and older versions are classic. So here's the deal. I can get all the way to Disk 6, then I re-insert the Install diskette. Then, it asks me to reboot. I reboot, and it's not there. I also have Windows 95 on this system. So how do I: Get past that 2) Get to see the drive's contents (it's not the same C as FAT 32 sees it...) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Everything about Apple ///

by wp4wssam＠coqui.net

If you need anything or need any information about Apple /// (SARA) the best place is Washington Apple Pi. They are a group dedicated to all apple and mac hardware and software. Mr. Dave Ottalini is the historian and librarian for the apple ///. To get help from him or any other person ap WAP, you need to join the club.

28 years, 1 month

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terminal keyboards needed

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I just shipped the VT 100 and VT 220 that I had without keyboards. I gave them away for the shipping and a few people in the list had told me that they have extra keyboards for sale/trade/free (I don't remember) but the newe owner in New Hamster is looking for a keyboard for each one and if those people that have them could write me back (direct email) I can relay the message to him. Thanks guys and gals. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I have such a beast, it is a Model 1083 (I believe). Unfortunately I don't have any other information on it. It's rather heavy for such a slim luggable. Perhaps it is better described as a lugtop? Laptop on steroids? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/13/98 5:33 PM Anyone heard of such a beast. It's a rather large "laptop" with a scrunched lc d display. Has two half height 5 1/4 floppies. From the keyboard it looks like a pc clone, but it also has a db25 terminal out port on the back. TIA George ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May13.173305.1767.41575; Wed, 13 May 1998 17:33:05 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id OAA09395; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:30:45 -0700 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id OAA57722 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:24:01 -0700 Received: from smtp.kurico.com (smtp.kurico.com [38.247.97.200]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id OAA00449 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:23:59 -0700 Received: from icurrie (unverified [209.36.177.59]) by smtp.kurico.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id <B0000139126(a)smtp.kurico.com>; Wed, 13 May 1998 16:59:56 -0500 Message-Id: <B0000139126(a)smtp.kurico.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:22:11 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "George Currie" <g(a)kurico.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 1 month

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HP85A Stuff

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Greg Troutman <mor(a)crl.com> wrote: > I spent a little more time on this guy and have finally gotten the tape > drive to work--sorta. The rubbery roller in the center to the left of > the head is seriously corroded away (as if some anti-rubber solvent or > high heat came in contact with it) which makes it not work too well. The rubbery bits used on these drives seem to be going gooey, at least out here in the San Francisco Bay Area. It's also happening to the similar drives used in HP264x terminals. (Gotta get around to fixing that one on my desk....) > Now, questions: I have a ROM Drawer filled with six option ROMS like > Assembler, Input/Output, Mass Storage, etc. First, how do I implement > the physical link to the I/O devices? You need an I/O card of the appropriate type to plug into another one of those slots on back. HP-IB is fairly common and is what you would use to hook up disk drives. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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question - how to test DMA on peecees right way?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

If the floppy works, the DMA controller works. If you really want to exercise it, install a Sound Blaster. Kai -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca [mailto:jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca] Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 12:07 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: question - how to test DMA on peecees right way? Assuming I have basic stuff, working parts except for motherboard under test. How can I assure that chipset that contains DMA controllers is working as intended? software I have is very limited and only tests very basic functions like checkit, sysinfo etc. Remember I only have limited RAM (1mb) to play with. Thanks Jason D. email: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D.

28 years, 1 month

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Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US

by g＠kurico.com

Anyone heard of such a beast. It's a rather large "laptop" with a scrunched lcd display. Has two half height 5 1/4 floppies. From the keyboard it looks like a pc clone, but it also has a db25 terminal out port on the back. TIA George

28 years, 1 month

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More Kaypro problems

by homeline＠ezl.com

Hello, My my name is Cliff Boyer and I too have a Kaypro 10 problem. I think mine is in the power supply. I plug it in and turn it on and nothing happens. No lights, beeps, chirps, drives whirling. Nothing! I checked fuse on the back panel and it's OK. Is there a fuse on the P/S board located on the inside of the back panel? The machine was given to me, but I have no disks or manuals. However it is in excellent shape. I hope the hard drive is OK. If I cant get this machine going, I hope to get Anthony Clifton's QX-10 so I can see what a CP/M computer is like! Anyone have any thoughts? Cliff P.S. Hey Grant, If mine is not fixable, I may have a HD for you!

28 years, 1 month

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FW: VAX 6560 available at Rice University.

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Anyone interested, please contact Mr. Lin directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Wed, 13 May 1998 13:15:47 -0500, in comp.os.vms you wrote: >>From: Chihfang Lin <chihfang(a)pop.ruf.rice.edu> >>Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >>Subject: VAX 6560 for Sale >>Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:15:47 -0500 >>Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas >>Lines: 15 >>Message-ID: <3559E353.EC8AE818(a)pop.ruf.rice.edu> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: admsys-21.rice.edu >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) >>CC: chihfang(a)rice.edu, prscott(a)rice.edu >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.mv.net!newspump.wustl.edu!rice!not-for-mail >> >>Greetings: >> >>My department has put a surplus VAX 6560 / w SF200 for sale on Rice's >>Greetsheet. The individual bid period is from May 18 to noon of May 22. >>If you are interested, please check "http://dacnet.rice.edu/~gs/" or >>call me for details. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Chihfang Lin >>Sr. Systems Administrator >>Administrative Systems, Rice University >>(713) 285-5967 chihfang(a)rice.edu >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 1 month

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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Hmmmm....7th grade. I got my Atari 800xl in seventh grade. Not a single I built my own computer in 7th grade. Of corse, that was a PC... >computer in my school, and that was even in a rather large city >(Pasadena). We found a lot of other things to occupy us, though, like >finding creative ways to get over (and under) the 8 foot chain-link fence >around the school and over to taco bell or the Pac Man arcade. I spent all Early 80's? My art teacher says that lots of high school students were depressed.... >of my "home" time drinking Tang, programming my Ataris, and listening to >Black Sabbath. Funny thing is I got all A's and B's in my classes, with an Same here. >attendance ratio of about 2/3 and a homework ratio of about 1/4. Does that I wish I could do that!!!! I spend around 1/3-1/6 of my time working, the rest talking. I wish that I could do that little homework!!! Honestly, homework's the worst thing. If it were just "go to school, come home live your life" it would be so cool!!! >say anything about the quality of California's public education? I can >only imagine that it's even better now.... Yep. Now, the thing is that with my science fair project, none of the judges understood what I was talking about (Linux Vs. Windows), so a rather stupid project (bacteria growing in hot water) won. Anyone else have problems like this in Science Fair(s)??? It was way to technical, even though it was scaled down A LOT. I couldn't say what I wanted to say so that these people could still understand it... >Aaron Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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HP85A Stuff

by mor＠crl.com

I spent a little more time on this guy and have finally gotten the tape drive to work--sorta. The rubbery roller in the center to the left of the head is seriously corroded away (as if some anti-rubber solvent or high heat came in contact with it) which makes it not work too well. Cleaning it up as best I could, and then doing multiple retries, getting frequent READ or SEARCH errors, have allowed me to store and retrieve some simple programs. I guess I'll be opening this up and trying to replace that. Now, questions: I have a ROM Drawer filled with six option ROMS like Assembler, Input/Output, Mass Storage, etc. First, how do I implement the physical link to the I/O devices? There are zero physical port connections on this box...(?) Second, how do I access the ROM code from the BASIC prompt? I'm sure there's a lot of tricky stuff involved, making the manuals indispensible, but since I don't have them, any quick tips would be appreciated. -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

28 years, 1 month

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Stuff to trade for PDP!

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2042 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980513/08d491c0/at…

28 years, 1 month

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Elementary school, how to learn. (language, reading, arithmetic) Yes, but computers are an important part of that. They need to know how to use them at an early age; even if it's not in school. >Intermeadiate school, how to find answers to questions and communicate >them. I say this goes to Elementary. In Jr. High, where I am now, most people are either lazy, "special-need" or both. On top of that, they've got SEVERE hormonal problems... it's important to know that you can't count on anyone to learn anything in perticular, except for stuff pertaining to... anyway, I think that here's a good time to give students a choice to know what they're going to do. I, for instance, want to specilize in Computers. Spending time learning "Pre-Algebra" (Just spent 2 class periods making a protractor accurate to 90' from a piece of paper.) isn't helpful, at least not that much, espcecially when I could cover the entire book in a week or two. (But my math teacher wants it "BIGGER, BETTER, NICER, NEATER." And I was done in 5 mins. out of 100!!!!) >High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed >to find paying work. I say that some students should be given the oppertunity to do this in Jr. High. Not everyone, but some people. After all, by this time, you know if you're not going to be a chemist, programmer, or anything. >Computers are a part of life and M$ stuff is unfortunatly reality we live >with every day. The unfortunate part is I meet kids at the grocer that >play doom, surf the net and can't count change. Ease of use. It happens. ;-) But seriously, the math program here doesn't EVER cover basic math, just expects you to learn it. Now, I was fortunate, and learned how to do that before moving here. >Allison -Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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ASR33

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Tony Duell wrote: > I'm pretty sure the teletype is a passive device and expects the other > device to source the loop current. > > 5V should be enough for the transmitter loop (which is just switch > contacts), but I doubt if it would be enough for the receiver loop (more > like 12V or more here) I used a TTY ASR-33 as a printer for my PET years ago. My memory is that if I left the receiver open circuit, i yammered away printing nulls; if I shorted out the loop it didn't. I interfaced it using one transistor - no power supply was necessary. +---------------------- | OUT b |/c -------/\/\/\/---------| NPN TTY |\e PET | -------------------------+---------------------- GND Note: I never interfaced the TTY transmitter - not even for reading paper tape (don't know why not) Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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Grundy Newbrain Computer wont power up.

by Andy.Keeble＠Royal-London-ins.co.uk

> -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 7:15 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Grundy Newbrain Computer wont power up. > > > > > Can anyone help me bring an old British Computer back to life. > > > > Last night I bought a early 1980's Grundy Systems Newbrain "AD" > computer > > from an advert in the local newspaper. > > (See http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi/picts/newbrain.jpg) > > > > The machine is in good condition, with original manuals, cables, > psu, > > and even some software. > > > > Unfortunately it wont power up. > > I have the Newbrain schematics somewhere if that would be any help. > Unfortunately I don't have schematics for the PSU, but I think that's > a > pretty simple linear unit. [Keeble, Andy] I only had a quick look at it the previous night, but had a bit more in depth look last night. It does look like a PSU problem, and yes the PSU looks straghtforward enough. > > > > Turning on, the LED display flickers and goes blank (although the > manual > > Actually, it's a fluorescent anode display (see the other > thread...)... [Keeble, Andy] Indeed, I only saw a quick flash on power up, and presumed it was led. When I opened it up last night I got a better look. > > says it should do this, although I don't get a test pattern which I > > think I should) On the Television/video output I just get a white > > screen. > > > > Does anybody know if these machines suffered from any common faults? > > Check the PSU. The easiest way to do this is to check the 3 supply > lines > at the 4116 DRAM chips (+5V, +12V, -5V). If any are missing or > incorrect > then the machine won't power up. [Keeble, Andy] The PSU says something like +6v +12v and -13v. I found the +12v ok, but the other two outputs are showing +20v, so I guess its a voltage reg problem. (These are offload values). > Check the inter-board ribbon cables for broken wires (they're solid > core > and break easily). [Keeble, Andy] I will check that, but I suspect I may have already found the fault, due to the high readings from the psu, just hope it has damaged any chips in the machine? > Apart from that, if the PSU is OK, you're going to have to > troubleshoot > this one starting at the Z80 (what is it doing) and working through > the > logic. I don't know of any stock faults on these machines. [Keeble, Andy] I thought before spending hours, I would ask folks on the mailing list, just in case there were any common problems. I used to work in a computer shop in the early 80's and several makes of machines came in with the same fault. We didnt deal with Newbrain back then, so I didnt get any experience of them. If I get the PSU working, and find I need a schematic, would you be willing to scan a copy and email it, or photocopy and post it (I would pay any expenses). There seems to be little info about the Newbrain on the net, and I guess not that many still exist, so it seems a shame not to try and put some effort in trying to get this one working again. > -tony

28 years, 1 month

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Another strange z-80 / CP/M box...

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Ok, whilst on the subject of big old CP/M machines.. I've got an old Philips P3800 machine, in a grey cabinet about 1 metre deep, maybe 80cm high and 40cm wide. Tracking down any info on it has proved impossible so far; has anyone got one of these they could share information about, or know anything about them? It was damaged in a flood a few years ago, the switchmode PSU in it has failed and just gives a whining noise when power is applied - I seem to remember I tried loading the PSU without connecting it up to the system backplane or drives, so I think it really has failed rather than there being a short or anything within the system. The hard drive (I *think* it was a10MB Seagate full-height, sadly my entire collection is a couple of hundred miles away from me so I can't check!) controller board went with a bang when power was applied - can I simply swap in another board from an identical drive in the hope that this'll work, or are boards calibrated in some way to their respective motors? I tried this swapping with another identical drive and the drive span up ok, so maybe it would work... I don't know what state the data on the drive it in though. Other info needed: Tape drive - mine is missing, having been put in another machine years ago. Anyone know what sort it was, and will the system run without it? Cabling - what sort of terminal could be connected to the cables hanging out the back of the machine? Are they RS232 in which case a vt100 could be used? Was there the concept of a console, or would the machine silently boot? What was needed to boot the machine? Would it boot from hard drive, or was a floppy needed? (I have zero docs and disks for this thing sadly...) Phew! That'll do for now I guess! :*) cheers, Jules

28 years, 1 month

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Kaypro problems

by homeline＠ezl.com

> >3) The fuse is fine, but the PSU won't start up. This is suprisingly >common (I've had it twice in the last month). Most small SMPSUs run the >control circuitry off one of the transformer outputs, which leads to a >bootstrap problem (the PSU can't run without the control circuit, but the >control circuit can't work without the PSU running). The solution is a >small circuit to give the control circuit enough power to start. In a lot >of cases this takes the form of a high-value resistor chain from the HT+ >(400V DC) line to the chopper control circuitry. And for some reason this >resistor open-circuits. It's worth checking all high-value resistors on >the primary side. > >When you've inspected the fuse, get back to us and we'll attempt to talk >you through the PSU... > >-tony > > > Well, I checked the fuse on the P/S, and its OK. So what is the next step? Is this something I can take to a repair shop. I know of a TV & stero shop that has worked wonders on an old Pioneer amplifier of mine. A P/S should be of no problem for them. I would like to attemp to fix my self, but I just don't have that sort of time at the moment! Or can anybody recommend someone I can send it (the power supply only) to for repair? Cliff Boyer

28 years, 1 month

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question - how to test DMA on peecees right way?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Tony Duell wrote: >The first requirement is that you're mad. Now that you're foaming blue at the mouth, you could give the speech about how to use the keyboard interface chip to bring the 286 into real mode and back again... :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

When was this thing with "computer literacy in schools is everything" started? I like computers in schools, but I am tired of looking at proposed plans to replace 5 MORE classrooms with computer labs. Is this a classic thing? Would you in general say that computers have affected education (keeping the discussion OnT, of course). > >> snoball wrote: >> > >> > Hi, I am a teacher here at the local elementary school in Humble, TX. To be >> > honest, the computer department here at the school is rather pathetic, two >> > Apple //e's and an XT that was donated that I can't get to work. To be >> > frank, these kids are going into a world where they are illiterate in the >> > basic workings of a computer. I hate to sound desperate, but I have just >> > exausted all leads I know to take on the matter. I saw your ad and thought >> >> Don't panic. Here in New Jersey, the kids are all experts at >> Nintendo (and some of the brighter lights at hacking security), >> but damned few can actually read the manuals. Remember, the >> most important component of "computer literacy" is "literacy". >> If the kids can read, they can learn computers. If they can't, >> there's not much else worth teaching them except to pee on the >> side of the dumpster the cops aren't watching. (I may be a bit >> prejudiced on the side of reading over computers -- I only have >> fifty-odd computers, I've got [half bought new] several thousand >> books, mostly the science fiction I've loved since before the >> "New Math" was introduced to my grade school [after I'd had the >> benefit of learning the stuff that worked].) >> -- >> Ward Griffiths >> They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >> Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. >> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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rt-11 programming

by CHUCK92124＠aol.com

i am looking for an RT-11 guru to modify some software for a PDP-11 system running RT-11 V4 year 2000 problem please call chuck@ 619-292-0911

28 years, 1 month

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list archives?

by g＠kurico.com

Hi, I just joined this list a couple of weeks ago and it is great. Lot's of great information. I have two quick list related questions. First, is this list being archived somewhere. Just in the two weeks I've been on, it's obvious that there is a huge amount of informational wealth being disseminated. And as any collector of older computers knows, information is the most essential element of collecting (that and software on the proper media). Second, does anyone know of any other lists that focus specifically on collecting? TIA George

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>At 10:20 5/13/98 -0500, Russ wrote: >>....I don't see >>anyone paying up to $15000 for a 1977 Apple computer of any model. > >I have personally watched three Apple Ones sell for, respectively, $12,000, >$15,500, and $22,000. The high one was at the Computer Bowl a couple of >years ago, the other two were private collectors, and none was ours (the >one at Fry's). > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > and there's a hint that one sold for $50K in the Apple docs online at http://www.grin.net/~cturley/USA2WUG/FOUNDING.MEMBERS/HOME.PAGES/STEVE.W/A1 /The%20Index.Page.html can anyone confirm this price?

28 years, 1 month

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Interesting c64 usage

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Last weekend I was at a garage sale where I spotted a c64 with an interesting job. It was connected to a mixing board to provide automation. That is, the c64 was used to control the functions of the mixer so as to be able to repeast a setup exactly. Pretty neat, and I wouldn't have minded getting it (I've been lusting after 8-bus multichannel mixer for years) but I couldn't justify the $1300 the guy wanted for it. 8^( Came with an interface box, btw, that had the software in it (presumably in ROM) for the automation. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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Displays needed

by kyrrin＠jps.net

This is a long shot, but what the hey... I have a 10 or so year-old satellite clock that gets its time signals from the GOES birds. It works very well indeed, but some of the display elements are beginning to get dim. It uses seven-segment neon-discharge displays. The first group of three is the day of the year. The next three pairs are hours/mins/secs. The day of year and seconds are the ones that are going dim. Does anyone know of a source for replacement displays of this type? (Are these what Burroughs called 'Panaplex?') Also, Daniel Seagraves has discovered that his RSTS 10.1 tape is trashed. Does anyone else happen to have RSTS 10.x on 9-track that they'd be willing to loan long enough for me to do a bit-copy of it? Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

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OS/2 Warp 3 Help... (Yes, off topic...)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-13 09:10:41 EDT, you write: << OK... remember that Arthur J. Carp fellow... well, I got a copy of Warp 3... 3.5" disks. (It's been a while...) Anyway, this is semi-on topic, as OS/2's a pretty good story, and older versions are classic. So here's the deal. I can get all the way to Disk 6, then I re-insert the Install diskette. Then, it asks me to reboot. I reboot, and it's not there. I also have Windows 95 on this system. So how do I: Get past that 2) Get to see the drive's contents (it's not the same C as FAT 32 sees >> if youve got win95 on there, you'll need to setup boot manager. i have two machines in a triple boot setup; pcdos7-win3.1/win95/warp and win95/nt/warp message me privately if more details are needed. david

28 years, 1 month

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<controller identification. OEM'd WD100x's like those in the Kaypro and <Perkin-Elmer 7300/7350 Unix boxes do not have this feature (or <the debug program to use it). < <Bill <who owned a number of WD1001 and WD1002-HDO controllers. Err Bill, The kaypro had DDT (cpm debugger). ;) You are coorect in that the -HDO and SCSI version did not have the rom that the XT had to have to over come the limited bios in the machine that didn't know about the HD. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by adept＠mcs.com

I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the following: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13839197 I'll save the surprise for you who want to check it out (it's a Commodore Educator 64) Cheers, Dan

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 03:28 AM 5/13/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: > >On Tue, 12 May 1998, The Adept wrote: > >> I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the >> following: > >What's a Leinenkugel, and how much will you sell it to me for? Wisconsin beer, see <http://www.leinie.com/>. Good stuff for $5.20 a six-pack of bottles. Just to keep it on topic, it's not far from Cray Research in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. Cray's web site doesn't advertise a real tour but there's a virtual one. Leinie's has a real tour with free beer. And if you're touring, don't forget the pie at the Norske Nook in Osseo. >Is this the Commie holy grail or something? I've never seen an old >Commodore go for over $500 before. Perhaps Someone should make a web site with reports of classic system sale prices, in order to balance the tales of $500 PETs with $5 PETs. Like anything else, so many other factors must be considered: rarity, condition, history, etc. - John

28 years, 1 month

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Another EBay absurdity

by bill.sheehan＠stoneweb.com

"The value of a thing Is what that thing will bring." - Ancient Legal Maxim Seriously, note that the last two bidders have a zero experience rating, and the high bidder is from AOL. We won't know what the third bid was until after the auction, but he's the only bidder I'd take seriously. By the bye, I recently bought a DEC terminal from this seller, and found them to be both conscientious and professional. The Adept <adept(a)mcs.com> on 05/12/98 09:54:08 PM Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC) Subject: Another EBay absurdity I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the following: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13839197 I'll save the surprise for you who want to check it out (it's a Commodore Educator 64) Cheers, Dan

28 years, 1 month

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<c800:5) to make sure it contains a jmp instruction. Other locations <that I've seen include c800:6 and cc00:5. In an earlier mail the controller was moted as a WD1002HDO in a kaypro. That tells me mountains, one there is no ISA, NOT PC. The HDO is a host interface essentailly a gerneral interface like a PIO chip. Also the wd1002HDO has no boot or bios roms. The K10 is a z80 machine so c800:5 is not relevent as it's 16bit address. using VAX/VMS notation: $user1:> set device/flame_thrower/temp=plasma Most non-PC systems are _not_ PCs and applying PC part numbers, addresses methods, installation tools, device notation, buses, and dos operating system to the non PC results in confusion if not outright error. $user1:> set device/noflame Allison

28 years, 1 month

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strange z-80 / CP/M box

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Grant Zozman wrote: > Is the case white? > Is there a red power switch surrounded by black plastic at the lower > right corner on the front? > Do the drives close using levers which twist 90 > degrees? Is the keyboard also built into the case? > Does the screen blink off and on when the drives are being accessed? > Weighs as much as a pallette of bricks? > > If so, I believe you have a 5120 (or possibly a 5110). These were > produced around 1979-1980 just prior to the introduction of the PC. > They would run either BASIC or APL, and could be equipped with an > external disk drive module which was the size of a small filing > cabinet, rolled on casters, and housed two additional 8" drives. A > wide carriage dot matrix printer was also available. If I remember > correctly there are three connectors on the back of the case of the > computer in a triangular shape, with a threaded hole for a bolt in the > middle. This is where the printer & drive unit connected. > > You might want to look for a silver tag on the back of the machine; I > always thought IBM was pretty adament about putting a model number on > anything they produced, but I don't remember there being any tags on the > front of the machine I worked on years ago. > > Hope this helps! If you find out what you have, I would be > interested in knowing the final outcome; I have heard others refer to > a machine which fits this description as a "Datamaster", but have no > idea what would make it different from a 5110/5120. That mostly tallies with my memory of my Datamaster (which I haven't powered up in ages). Mine is a 5322, and calls itself System/23 I've never met the 5110 or 5120, I'm afraid. Word of warning: If you have a Datamaster and power it up without the printer it fails diagnostics. However, if you then press the Error Reset (or some such name) key, it goes on booting (into ROM BASIC) quite happily. But what's this in the subject line? IBM never made a Z80 CP/M box that I know of. The Datamaster had an 8085, but didn't run CPM AFAIK; the Displaywriter had an 8088 and ran CP/M86 as an option. (Displaywriter: Much more modern styling. Tilt and swivel screen, separate dual 8" disk unit, separate keyboard. Looked not unlike a PET 8032SK.) Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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HP terminal FS -one left

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Here's the last of the old and new terminal units I have - I have one remaining Hewlett Packard 700/44 with amber video. Has a current loop and rs-232 connector and comes with a like new keyboard. Works great, looks lke new. $15 plus shipping (22 lbs) or I may trade for a few odds-n-ends that equate to the cost. Of course the buyer pays the shipping unless a trade is worked out at an equivelant rate. Thanks to everyone for allowing me to put these up which also kept them out of the landfill. Many people out my way would have no idea what they are and they'd become dumpster filler if I hadn't found homes for items such asd the VT 100 and 131. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. This is semi-off topic, but I'm sure that if any replies are made, it'll eventually spin off to someone's tales of their PDP-8 in high school, or their first VIC-20... Anyway, as much as I can complain that I'm not getting a decent computer-education in school, I owe a lot to them. My first year here in Bahrain, I had just got my computer (a blasing fast 486 33!!!), running (what else) Windows 3.1 and DOS 6.22. I didn't know how to type, just use basic functions. I could get on CompuServe (at least in the US), etc. but not do anything "powerfull" I could launch CD-ROMS, install programs since I was 8, in 3rd grade. Then, in school that year, I learned to type. A significant 40WAM. (I thought this was miserrable, but now in typing, many 7th graders got like 19's, 25's...) Anyway, that gave me my basic computer skills. Now, in 6th grade, when I next did serious typing (4th grade was a mess, I skipped 5th grade), I found that my typing increased to 80WAM. (WPM??) Now, I find it's at 100-140. I owe all that to the school. Without learning how to type, I would never have gotten interested in e-mail, programming, computer science, CAD, grapics, number crunching, UN*X, or hardware stuff. Then, earlier on this year, I was asked to help make a computer couse for my grade at school. For the first couple weeks we wouldn't have a computer lab. So I did what I thought would work: Talked about the workings of a computer. Terms like OS, HDD, RAM, CPU, bus, HTML, web, modem, etc. Since then, I've been working to set up a browser-based Intranet. It's been a heck of a lot of fun, if not educatonal. Just my $0.02... Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by Marty＠itgonline.com

If all else fails you may want to try a low level format on the hard drive. Boot with a MS-Dos ver 2.10 or later, run debug. At the '_' prompt type in g=c800:5 which should access the controller rom and enable you to low level format (it is <crudely> menu driven). Your Tandon has 306 cylinders, 4 heads and 17 sectors per track. After the low level format procede with the high level partitioning and formatting. -Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/11/98 9:27 PM I recently added a Kaypro 10 to my collection, but it seems to have met with some rough handling in shipping. If anyone can shed some light on the problem described below, I would REALLY appreciate it (any Kaypro experts out there?) When I first fired it up, it booted from the hard drive right away. However, as soon as I tried to access the HD further, all I got were "Bad Sector" errors. Since then, the computer will no longer boot from the HD, and I can't access any information on it ( not a good sign :-( ). Using CP/M, I have tried to re-format the drive with no luck; all I get are "Verify Errors" as it tries to format. So much for the theory that the heads may have gotten knocked slightly out of alignment! Re-seating all connectors on the drive and controller didn't help either. I have pulled the drive from the computer and hooked it up outside the case. It does spin up to normal operating speed, and I can see the head stepper motor responding in a normal fashion when I attempt to access the drive (formatting, parking the heads, pulling a directory, etc.). None of the linkage to the heads seems damaged or broken; in fact the entire computer is in excellent shape and has not been abused. The hard drive activity light (which is controlled from the drive itself) also seems to respond normally. No untoward noises seem to come from the unit when it is operating, although I do hear some metallic "singing" during the last second or so just prior to the drive coming to a complete stop on power down. I'm not sure if this is just the brake mechanism, or if it is the heads against the platters (I do park the drive prior to powering off, though). Based on the above, I am assuming (wrongly so?) that the controller is probably working OK. It is a Western Digital WD1002-HDO. My hunch is that either the drive electronics or the drive itself have failed. Are there any other tests I should by trying? Am I correct to assume that it is the drive which has failed? The drive is a Tandon TM502 (10MB, MFM, 5 1/4" platters). If the drive cannot be salvaged, I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has a replacement drive, or knows of a source for same. I would like to keep the same make and model drive if possible, but an equivalent model would be fine too (as I'm sure Non Linear Systems used more than one make of drive in the Kaypro's). Any help is much appreciated! Grant Zozman gzozman(a)escape.ca ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May11.212743.1767.41196; Mon, 11 May 1998 21:27:44 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id SAA14261; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:22:23 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id SAA46526 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:22:15 -0700 Received: from wpg-01.escape.ca (root(a)wpg-01.escape.ca [198.163.232.254]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id SAA09739 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:22:13 -0700 Received: from escape.ca (ts2dl081.escape.ca [198.163.234.81]) by wpg-01.escape.ca (8.8.7/8.7.5) with ESMTP id UAA21249 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 11 May 1998 20:22:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3557A4D5.E8EC2CE3(a)escape.ca> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:24:38 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Grant Zozman <gzozman(a)escape.ca> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems References: <199805112323.TAA12647(a)mail.cgocable.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 1 month

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Hello - I'm a new reader

by dpeschel＠u.washington.edu

... and I wanted to introduce myself. I'm a student at the University of Washington; I subscribed to the list in hopes that there would be some local members. So far, I'm not sure. Some of your names are familiar from alt.folklore.computers but many are new. I'm a computer-science major. Most CS majors here don't seem to be very interested in old machines, unfortunately. They must be dazzled by all the Windows NT machines we have (which were given to us by Intel and don't work very well, thanks to overstressed/inept/inconstant administration). I'll probably read more than I post -- I don't have detailed experience with the popular machines, because I don't _have_ the popular machines, because I live in a dorm room. But I do have experience with the Apple ][, and a Kaypro which I'm resurrecting (thanks to Don Maslin and his awe-inspiring collection of CP/M disks) and some HP calculators and some emulators on my Macintosh. By "popular" I mean "popular with the readers of this list," not "popular with people in general." So... who's from Washington? And BTW, is there a working Web site/archive/FAQ for this group? I can't seem to connect to the bothell machine, even though it's part of my own school. Thanks, -- Derek

28 years, 1 month

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Amiga 600HD questions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Would you allow CP/M? BOCHS Unix emulator? Macintosh? I will say only one thing: don't try to go back - it will never be the same, and you will only be disappointed (yes, I know you're only kidding). I don't really use USENET because it's a pain... > >Hell, I was on the Usenet when it was just a partial feed from a >friend at Cal Tech to my little TRS-80 Model 16 two miles away >with its 15-Meg HD that could handle a month's worth of my partial >feed at a time (a full feed would have choked it in less than a >week -- if I could handle the bandwidth) at 1200 baud back in the >stone age (1986-7), when bang-path email could take a week or more >to turn around. Usenet was a bit surreal in those days of >_severely_ asynchronous communication (not the modems, just the >messages crossing paths). I loved it, and if the over-advertised >Internet keeps screwing up, 56Kbps modems (and 10-321 or whatever >the latest long distance cheap service is) would let us build a >better new Usenet than there used to be. And anybody who gave >the phone numbers to AOL, Hotmail, any such scum, or ever allowed >a binary file that wasn't uuencoded (and useful -- no hundred-part >fuzzy porn need apply) to go through would be flogged from all of >the L.sys or Systems files forever. Oh yeah, this would of course >be *nix based (Unix, Linux, Sunos, etc.) as the gods meant it to >be -- PCs are welcome only as terminal emulators if they're >hosting parasites such as Windows or MS-DOS. >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
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Amiga 600HD questions

by K.J.Whitehead＠massey.ac.nz

I have been given an Amiga 600HD. It seems to work but wont boot. Investigation showed that althought there was a harddrive there was no power going to it. Does the machine use standard IDE drives, if so where did it poer up from, there is no power socket adjacent to the IDE socket on the board. I suppose that a Y cable connected to the supply going to the floppy would work. Cheers Keith Whitehead +----------- Keith Whitehead -----------+ | Physics and Chemistry Depts | | Massey University | | Palmerston North | | New Zealand | | | | Ph +64 6 350-5074 Fax +64 6 354-0207 | +------------------------------------------+

28 years, 1 month

4
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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Well, if someone will send me the 486's, I'll build and test 'em...that's my main business. -- I'm very low on everything, though, so I need your components. manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire."

28 years, 1 month

1
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iMac update

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I'm sorry that this is OT, but I thought everyone should know that Apple has announced that upcoming laptops will NOT support SCSI or floppy drives (according to MSNBC). It's nice to know that now that Steve Jobs is back, Apple's gotten back to innovationg and changing stuff. I doubt the market cares, however. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
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FS: Panasonic JR-200U

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Anyone interested in one? Excellent condition (still with packaging) and manuals. manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire."

28 years, 1 month

1
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strange z-80 / CP/M box

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hmmm. Never heard of that but I don't think that's what he has. I had the impression that his drives are part of the main unit. Dammed shame your drives were scrapped out. I'd love to have one for my 5100. Joe At 08:49 PM 5/12/98 -0400, you wrote: >> It's not a 5100! They only had a single tape drive. > >No, IBM did have MASSIVE 8 inch drives for the 5100 (5108?). My system had >two of the small file cabinet sized things, but they were scrapped out. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > >

28 years, 1 month

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strange z-80 / CP/M box

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 02:22 PM 5/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I think we also acquired an IBM 5100. >This animal was without docs, but it boots to basic and has >a small mono screen and twin 8 inch drives. All the logic is >in one housing with the screen. I know someone was asking >around about such a computer recently. It's not a 5100! They only had a single tape drive. Joe

28 years, 1 month

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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

> Are there any students besides Derek on the list? Oh, what the heck. I'm a third-year Russian major at Grinnell College. And, just to keep this minimally on-topic, I have a minor Kaypro problem. My Kaypro 4 had one of its original floppy drives replaced with a half-height drive before I got it, leaving a gaping hole in the front. I wasn't thrilled about this even when the drive worked, but it's stopped working, so I want to get rid of it. Anybody have a source for full-height double-sided 5-1/4" floppy drives? Thanks, -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats

28 years, 1 month

5
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Commodore 128 cabling

by red＠bears.org

Hi. I picked up a C=128 with a pair of 1571 drives and a 1902 monitor at a thrift shop the other day. I'm a bit of a Commodore gumby---I only ever knew one guy who had one, and it was a C=64. I couldn't find any of the cables when I bought it. I actually did go back this morning and found a few of them, so I have a few questions. The 1902 monitor has 5- and 8-pin DIN connectors. The C=128 has 5- and 8-pin DIN connectors for video, along with a DE9f for 'RGBI'. The video cable I found has a 5-pin connection labelled 'Computer' and an 8-pin connection labelled 'Monitor'. This sounds pretty straightforward. So my question is, which jacks are used for what? Will I not be able to use 80 column mode with this cable? Should I wire a straight-through DIN-8 cable and use that instead of the one I have? What do I gain by using the RGBI connector? Would one of the Tandy RGB monitors work with it? The thrift has one, either a CM-3 or CM-5. I forget which. Also, I was unable to locate the power supply. I notice it has the same connection as my A500 supply, except the switch is on the CPU instead of the PS. Could I use the A500 supply on the C=128 until I can dig up a C=128 (or even C=64?) supply? ok r. PS; I'm still trying to find info on that TI-99/4A video cable. (:

28 years, 1 month

2
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Fun at lunch

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

My wife informed me today that she couldn't join me for lunch so I decided to take the time and spend it visiting a couple of thrifts here. Glad I did. I picked up a Commodore C64 (in the shorten C128 style case, sans power supply) just for the heck of it, it was only $0.80 along with a C2N Cassette drive and 2 Kraft KC3 PC/Apple 2 joysticks. Those are nice ones. But what really caught my eye was a small box in the back of the top shelf. It was a Radio Shack MC-10 Micro Color Computer, missing the power supply of course. I brought it back to the office and asked our sysadmin if he could load Office 98 on my new portable for me. He didn't know what to say. :-) Anyone have anything for the MC-10? Doc, software, etc. The other big find, to me anyway, was a book for $0.50, INTRODUCTION TO DEC SYSTEM-10: TIME-SHARING AND BATCH. This book is great! Now I just need a system to play with. More books and computers, that'll teach my wife to skip out on lunch. :-) ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years, 1 month

2
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More Kaypro problems

by scottk5＠ibm.net

Re: More Kaypro problems On Mon, 11 May 1998, Cliff Boyer wrote: > Hello, > > My my name is Cliff Boyer and I too have a Kaypro 10 problem. > Sounds a little like a 12-Step meeting....hello, my name is Kirk and I have a Xerox 16/8 problem..:-) I'm having the same sort of problem with my Xerox, with a Shugart 512 10MB HDD. I can put the drive on another MFM controller and it will initialize and format just fine with no errors, but on the WD controller in the Xerox under CPM it takes hours and hours to initialize and verify...then when I try to make partititons, CPM reports an error, that there is data on the disk, and dumps me back to the initialization routine. Could this possibly be the controller and is there any alternative to spending $75.00 to get another one? Kirk Scott scottk5(a)ibm.net

28 years, 1 month

2
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Forward: Free Sun386i in Chelmsford MA [gwr@mc.com: Free Sun 386i]

by maynard＠jmg.com

Saw this on the 'current-users' netbsd list and figured some folks here might be interested. I cannot vouge for this gentleman, though I know he is one of the Sun-3 port maintainers for NetBSD and strongly suspect he's a 'nice guy.' ;-) - - --jmg - - ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:29:00 -0400 From: "Gordon W. Ross" <gwr(a)mc.com> To: current-users(a)NetBSD.ORG Subject: Free Sun 386i Delivered-To: current-users(a)NetBSD.ORG Anyone want a free Sun386i? It's the bigger one (server) model /25 or something like that. I forget. Color tube. It works, and has SunOS 4.0.3 as I recall, and DOSmerge. Way too heavy to ship. You pick it up in Chelmsford, MA. Pass this along. It goes to the scrap yard in a week. Apologies for the noise... Gordon

28 years, 1 month

1
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UNIVAC Core Memory Cards (Screens) Available

by drfcline＠netw.com

Re: Loren's Everly's question on May 11th concerning IBM 1500. About 20 years ago, against my wife's admonitions, I bought an old IBM 1500. I paid a bunch of kids to open core memory modules so that I could find and mount a core board and a controller card on the wall. I have a friend, Jack Harper, on the list who asked for a core card, and said he thought there might be others of you interested in this unique piece of history. I have pictures of them on my website at: www.netw.com/~DrFCline/ For those of you interested have a look, and contact me if you wish. Foster

28 years, 1 month

3
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Calculator displays

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Gas discharge has the cathode suspended in the gas, and it is the gas <around it that glows, not the surface of the cathode. I have never seen <a blue one, but I imagine argon is more likely than mercury vapour <(which radiates mostly UV). Argon and mercury vapor are both UV emitters. Mercury vapor actually requires a heater to insure there is enough vapor. They have higher ignition voltages makeing them less suitable for semiconductor drive. Vacuum florescent was predominent with LEDs before LCDs displaced them. Vfs had low power, good brightness, suitable for multiplexing (nixies didn't) and operating voltages suitable for PMOS, CMOS and other semiconductor drives. The standard blue green VF would filter well to yellow, green or blue and with other phosphors red and a distinct deep blue were also done. The actual visible elemets of VF tubes could be a dot matrix, 7, 9 12, 15, 16 or more segments or even arbitrary shapes and complete words like "door open" or "overrange" as a single element. Nixie required far to much power for handheld and even the smallest were quite tall. There were variations of the nixie theme using bars but all of the high voltage needs remain and the classic neon orange color. Of the non crt display technologies I have that are in use and working: incandesent: Numitron 7segment flatface in my first freqcounter (1974). VF: alpha numeric with complete words, the loran used in my plane. VF: alpha dot matrix 40 char by 2 lines display system (C 1980) NIXIE: Yasu 355D 350mhz frequency counter. Nixie alpha: Burroughs 32 char selfscan as ascii right entry display. LED numeric: SR11 calc, various small frequency counters, DVMs and pannel meters. LED alpha: A display system using HP6508 15segment leds, 32 chars long. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
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Grundy Newbrain Computer wont power up.

by Andy.Keeble＠Royal-London-ins.co.uk

Can anyone help me bring an old British Computer back to life. Last night I bought a early 1980's Grundy Systems Newbrain "AD" computer >from an advert in the local newspaper. (See http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi/picts/newbrain.jpg) The machine is in good condition, with original manuals, cables, psu, and even some software. Unfortunately it wont power up. Turning on, the LED display flickers and goes blank (although the manual says it should do this, although I don't get a test pattern which I think I should) On the Television/video output I just get a white screen. Does anybody know if these machines suffered from any common faults? There doesn't seem to be much information in any of the newsgroups, and apart from brief descriptions on web based computer museums, there is very little information available about this strange little computer. Any help or information, would be much appreciated. Andy

28 years, 1 month

2
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Calculator displays

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Many thanks to all who replied about calculator displays. The general consensus seems to be that it was probably a Sharp EL9, an early and large hand-held calc (I'm sure it was larger than my hand, but never mind) from the early 1970s. To clear up a few misconceptions: It was not a Nixie tube machine. I have a nixie tube calc and a nixie tube voltmeter, so I know what those are. Apart from the trademark issues, I regard Nixie tubes as being ones in which you have an electrode for each _character_ rather than each segment. Usually digits, but as Tim pointed out, other symbols were available. It was not a starburst display. I have seen 14 segment and 16 segment versions, but these are still based on straight lines, not curves, and the numerals are still the good old 7-segment ugly ones. It was also not the display I have in my other digital voltmeter (Dynamco, I think) which has as digits a multilayer Perspex sandwich. Each perspex layer has a dot pattern for a character drilled in it; you light up a character by illuminating the edge of the appropriate perspex wafer, and total internal reflection confines the light to that wafer, thus lighting up the dot pattern of only the one character. Neat. I shall have a look at the website someone mentioned - thanks. But meanwhile, can someone who has a Sharp please e-mail me with a brief description of the segments of this 8-or-9-segment display and which ones light up for which digits. Many thanks. (A bit of background: Talking to my mother about watches, she said she never liked digital watches because she found 7-segment characters hard to read. I remembered this Sharp system and decided to try and find out a bit more. I wonder if it would be possible to revive it for LCDs and things - I still think it is much more readable than 7 seg.) Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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Curious

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Anyone had problems lately with the list setting you to POSTPONE? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

1
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Crosspost - Osborne help needed

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

If anyone on the list can help this guy, please email him directly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Dal Bianco <centenni(a)npiec.on.ca> Welland, ONT Canada - Tuesday, May 12, 1998 at 11:30:41 I have an Osborne Portable computer, Model OCC 1. I would like to get it up and running, but lack information on it such as operating system, start-up procedure and available memory. If anyone knows about this model of computer, please contact me. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

1
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PPP and seriel connection

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Now it is possible that the modems I had available then were different <from current ones, this was in 1993 and I was working with 1200 or 2400 <baud modems. No difference. DC on the line was used to sense off hook. It's possible to ignore the associated line status bit, standard software(dialers, terminal emulators" would likely look at it and indicate an error. Most modems use this to indicate a live line and not already in use. Carrier tone (dial tone) is the next level up to indicating a live line and dialing is possible. In any case if these are worked around one modem must be originate and the other answer so the signal sense is correct. While it could be handy and made for a real simple two wire interconnect it's slower than serial direct. <If you can give me references to documents describing modem and phone lin <electrical standards I would appreciate it. Not handy, I'm sure it's on the net. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< If all else fails you may want to try a low level format on the hard < drive. Boot with a MS-Dos ver 2.10 or later, run debug. At the '_' < prompt type in g=c800:5 which should access the controller rom and < enable you to low level format (it is <crudely> menu driven). Your < Tandon has 306 cylinders, 4 heads and 17 sectors per track. After the < low level format procede with the high level partitioning and < formatting. < Marty That would work if it were a dos box. It's a kaypro CP/M machine with hard disk via host adaptor. However, in all likelyhood there are bad sectors on the drive and a FORMAT of the drive may clear the errors. The problem is that you need the floppies with the disk utilities to do that and restore the OS back to the disk (never minding all the other stuff on it). Unlike dos when I say FORMAT I mean literally a low level format of the media. This unlike the dos initializing of the media to dos file system. Formattig the media will erase all the data and files so if you didn't backup, you loose. How do the bad sectors arise? Heat, age and centrifical force assuming there were no mechanical or electrical events to munge the media. The older ST506/412 and similar drives tended to need a low level format from time to time over their mechanical life. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
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Amiga 600HD questions

by jfoust＠threedee.com

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote: >If you have access to USENET the Amiga newsgroups are some of the best left >(man has USENET gone down hill since I first started using it). (Insert sound of crusty old man voice) "I was on the fricking net before they even called it the Internet!" >Just beware the euphoria is running extremally high with everyone waiting for >the big announcement from Amiga, Inc. at "World of Amiga" in London this >weekend. The hype is this announcement will change the face of computing, >PERIOD, and will feature some BIG names. (Insert sound of Monty Python "Black Knight" sketch, appropriate to Amigoids who hop around on one leg shouting "It's not dead yet.") - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

1
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What's an HP A900?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I found one in (probably) nonoperating condition. Just the CPU box, nothing else. What is it? -------

28 years, 1 month

1
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Calculator displays

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>>> By your later e-mail, you have that image form some website. Good, as it >>> would be almost impossible to make a reasonable ascii sketch of it. They >>> glow blue (what gas is that? argon?) and are viewed through a green filter. >> >> Is it a gas discharge or a fluorescent anode? The latter are often green/blue > > I think gas discharge, as they have the mesh anode that you referred to > in another message. Hmmm. I'm not convinced. IIRC, vacuum fluorescent displays have a hot wire cathode (thin, hard to spot) at the front, a mesh electrode near the back (anode?) and targets with greyish paint on them at the back. These targets usually glow blue-greenish when hit by electrons. But it is the paint that glows. Gas discharge has the cathode suspended in the gas, and it is the gas around it that glows, not the surface of the cathode. I have never seen a blue one, but I imagine argon is more likely than mercury vapour (which radiates mostly UV). Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>> It was also not the display I have in my other digital voltmeter >> (Dynamco, I think) which has as digits a multilayer Perspex sandwich. >> Each perspex layer has a dot pattern for a character drilled in it; you >> light up a character by illuminating the edge of the appropriate perspex >> wafer, and total internal reflection confines the light to that wafer, >> thus lighting up the dot pattern of only the one character. Neat. > > I've seem those used with a 2-colour (black, or illuminated red) > background for +ve or -ve results. Problem is, I can never remember if > red is +ve (as an engineer would use) or -ve (as an accountant would > use)... Actually, didn't Dynamco do that on some of their voltmeters? IIRC my Dynamco uses red for negative. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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question - how to test DMA on peecees right way?

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Hmm, did you say that you had checkit? I thought that did test the DMA controllers... maybe not, been a long time since I've used it... cheers Jules >

28 years, 1 month

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TRS80 Model I Equipment

by gkatz001＠umaryland.edu

Alas, I have accepted a job offer that will take my family and me across the country into a home smaller than one we are currently renting. The Wife says that the Classic Computer Collection is NOT travelling with us. To be fair, if it DID move, I would have to store the equipment in a garage or something equally undesirable. The following equipment is in need of rescue: 3 TRS80 Model I CPU's two have keypads, one does not all are LEVEL II, 16K two have R/S lowercase mods, one has a non-R/S lc mod 2 Expansion Interface's both have 32K of RAM neither have functioning RS232 boards one has a buffered cable and SD controller one has non-buffered cable and R/S DD controller a single R/S RS232 board with a blown line driver chip might still be with us 4 R/S Shugart or Tandon Diskette Drives Two are Drive 0 designates with terminating resistors Two are Drive 1,2,3? without terminating resistors 1 VOXBOX - screws missing but functional at last test 1 TRS80 Voice Synthesizer - barely functioning at last test 1 TRS80 Line Printer 7 Box of Cassette-based tapes Unfortunately, three TRS80 Model I Monitors got tossed accidentally in a prior move, so I don't have any of these. The computers are currently located in central New Jersey. I am hoping that there is a local collector who would be interested in providing these guys with a loving home. I am currently located in Baltimore, so I can't ship them easily. Please reply via EMAIL if you are interested in retrieving these pieces of computing history. -Gary Katz

28 years, 1 month

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VCF2 dates & venue

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:18 AM 5/11/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Its now official...the Second Annual Vintage Computer Festival will be >held on September 26-27 at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa >Clara, California. On a similar note, there's going to be a World of Atari show in Las Vegas in August. Kinda like MacWorld, only for Atari's. (And much, much, bigger. 8^) Anyway, sounds like a lot of fun; unfortunately I won't be able to make it. However, the guy from Sacto said that if WoA is successful, he'll think about doing another Sacramento Atari Expo... So go, make it a big success... P.S., Sam, I forgot to mention that I'll be happy to bring over anything in my collection (except the big Symbolics machines or the HP3000 8^) to put on display, and I'll be after a table too, I think, to unload some of the Mac stuff Rachel's not using at school. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

This card also has some RAM-like chips. IF one were to assume that those are buffers, could one say that this is just a customized parallel port card? >> single female socket,37 pin. It is labelled CD-IFI3, and has an NEC >> D8255AC-5 chip on it. It is a standard 8-bit ISA. Could someone tell > >It's not much help but I can tell you that an 8255 is a pretty dumb 24 >line parallel I/O chip. It has the interesting feature that any write to >the mode control register (even if it doesn't change it) sets all output >lines to logic 0. That can make life interesting... > > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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PDP-9 restoration

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

I have trawelled the net and checked my own library but can find very little of substance on the PDP-9. Doea anyone have information on this machine? How rare is it? Regards, Hans B Pufal

28 years, 1 month

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Great end to week

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well Saturday was apretty good end to the week for me and the museum. At goodwill I found a HeathKit Educational system ET100 Learning computer with kb and cable for casette recorder. Also had with it the assembly manual and a memorex tape with some sort of programs on it just reading the hand wriiten label. The bottom was signed by Jay H. Jarrett VP Product Development and the person who put it together and dated 11-26-83. At used/new dealer I got the following 5 ea Duo Dock stations with bad ps's HP 2392A terminal users manual Itermec penlight bar code reader Memories, Micro-processors, Consumer Circuits, Industrial by MOSTEK 1975. IBM 3151 ASCII display station models 11,31, and 41 guide to operations. TI Application Report TMS 9900 system Development manual 1976. Honeywell IPC627 minicop user manual Mostek The F8 Microprocessor Preliminary Databook March 1976. Signetic's Designing with Microcomputers 1976. TMS 1976 Capactive-touch keyboard Interface Circuit manual 1977. HP Laserjet IIP has jamming problem needs some work. A BCC black notebook by Northgate for $19.99 needs some work. A ZEOS hand held unit for parts $9 black case no screen. Other items not ready for 10 year rule but it was a pretty good haul for a slow day. Keep computing John

28 years, 1 month

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HP 150 stiffies

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > My vague recollection is that an "application master disk" is supposed > > to have a file that tells PAM about an application -- things like what > > I've got the format of the installation file for the master disk - it's > in one of the manuals for writing your own applications. But I have no > idea quite what the installation procedure does with that informaition. I think I remember knowing it at one time, at least well enough to fake it when I needed it once -- though whether that was through reverse engineering the file format or looking at a co-worker's ISV kit manual I can't recall. > What about doing a plain sector copy on a PC or something? The disk is a > standard double-density one so a PC controller should be able to read it. > Shouldn't be too hard to figure out what sectors are used and copy them over. Sydex has a shareware device driver that is supposed to let you use HP150 stiffies directly on a PC-compatible. I tried it a few months ago on a non-classic (hmm, 7 years to go) Toshiba notebook but it was not able to read the lone 150-formatted stiffy I had handy. Whether that is because of newfangled hardware, funky notebook hardware, inability of the software to handle single-sided stiffies, or bad vibes I don't know. I am able to read the disk in a 9114B on my Portable Plus though. Hmm, maybe I'll try DISKCOPY on it tonight and see if that gets me another stiffy that the 9114B can read. Cheap thrills. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have a CD-Rom unit here at my school that needs to be identified. We don't know where we got it, and have no docs. All we have is the external box, about 6" X 15" X 2". It is labelled "DATEXT CD-ROM DRIVE UNIT", and on the back says "MODEL DTX-10" and was made April 1986. It has a centronics plug on the back. The card that came with it has a single female socket,37 pin. It is labelled CD-IFI3, and has an NEC D8255AC-5 chip on it. It is a standard 8-bit ISA. Could someone tell me how useful this thing is, what drivers I need, background on it, etc? Thanks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Osborne Executive (fwd)

by rws＠ais.net

Hi all- I received this message, and I can't help as I don't have an Executive (just a 1). Can anybody offer any ideas? You can either reply to him, or to the group and I'll forward them to him. Thanks, Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:44:10 EDT From: JWMc33 <JWMc33(a)aol.com> To: rws(a)ais.net Subject: Osborne Executive I have three Osborne Executives, all of which give me fragmented type on the screen when I turn the computer on. A friend suggested that I need to change "the batteries." I can't find them. Can you help me? John McCormick

28 years, 1 month

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HP 150 stiffies

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote (after Doug): > > So, I'm simply trying to make a copy of my boot disk. It looks like I'm > > almost there. I can boot from the new disk, but PAM says I need to > > install some apps on the disk, and then she tells me to RTFM! I don't > > have the manual, so can somebody tell me how to install apps for PAM? > Touch 'Install Applic' (or press F1) > > Put the application master disk (I hope you have this...) into one of the > drives. Touch the appropriate label in the 'FROM' column on the screen. > Put the new disk in the other drive and touch that label in the 'TO' column. There's the rub, I think Doug is trying to copy a stiffy with installed applications and he wants the applications to be "installed" on the copy too. My vague recollection is that an "application master disk" is supposed to have a file that tells PAM about an application -- things like what files need to be copied for installation, what text to put in the application's block on the PAM screen, and what to run to when the user wants the application started. Installing the application gets the files copied and the other info stashed in some file (maybe a hidden one) that PAM keeps in the root directory of the boot volume. That latter file is probably what Doug needs to copy to his new boot disk. Of course it's been umpteen years since I last thought about this and so I don't remember the filenames. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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Id on Xerox workstation

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

Amongst the ACONIT collection (see previous message), I found a Xerox workstation. Its a desk side, brown tower case with a separte small box on top containing a 3.5" floppy drive. It has a large (21") screen and optical mouse. It is made up of 4 tall boards wth part numbers like 140K0xxxx where xxxx are digits. Can anyone id this system? Regards, Hans B Pufal

28 years, 1 month

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Saved my bacon...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

THis running pulls 15 amps. Mustv'e been a fluke. Now, back to trying this RSTS tape... SAVRES says it has no header, and I can't boot from it... -------

28 years, 1 month

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More PDP-11 tricks... (How many amps did you just say?)

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I've managed to blow some obscure breaker somewhere, so now the CD head gets to decide if I get to haul my PDP-11 elsewhere. I'm not allowed to turn it on for the rest of the week, or until I find out how many amps it pulls, pray to the goddess Apthrodite, offer burnt 95 CDs, etc... Anyway, I've produced the following: I have 2 BA-11 boxes plugged into a 861C power controller, a RA81, a RA92, and a 9-track drive rated at 2 amps. Also, a TU58. How many can this pull running, and how much does that *%%%#& RA81 pull when started? Note that the 2 BA boxes are on the 861C, everything else is in the wall. -------

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

I wrote: > I shall have a look at the website someone mentioned - thanks. > > But meanwhile, can someone who has a Sharp please e-mail me with a brief > description of the segments of this 8-or-9-segment display and which > ones light up for which digits. Amazingly, there is a good image of it on the website. My last request is therefore redundant. Thank you one and all. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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remove

by JayDee400＠aol.com

remove

28 years, 1 month

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VCF2 dates & venue

by dastar＠wco.com

Its now official...the Second Annual Vintage Computer Festival will be held on September 26-27 at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, California. Another speaker has been added...Ray Holt. He designed the JOLT computer and also was involved in the development of the KIM-1 and SYM-1. That would be interesting in itself if it wasn't for the history-changing revelation that Ray will be sharing with those who attend VCF2. More to come! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 1 month

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S100 speech boards

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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28 years, 1 month

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Schematics for Apple 1 anyone?

by dastar＠wco.com

I know this is (possibly) a long shot but does anyone have the schematics for the Apple 1? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/05/98]

28 years, 1 month

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HP 150 stiffies

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 10, 11:50, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: HP 150 stiffies > > I think the real contemporary stiffies for those early drives didn't > > have the spring to pull the door closed. But I've never actually seen > > I have a couple somewhere... From memory, there is a spring - you slide > the door open against the spring and it locks open. Then you insert the > disk into the drive. When you eject it you pinch the corner to release > the catch and the door springs closed. That's what mine are like, too. The drives in the Sony WP were the same as the Apricot ones, mentioned in another reply, and Sony and Apricot upgraded to double-sided at about the same time. I've got the tech and service manuals for those drives, too. The 26-pin connector has the same signals as a modern 34-pin (barring ones that wouldn't be relevant here) and you can certainly make a simple adaptor. However, the data rate in the Sony and old Apricot systems was twice the normal rate for double-density, and the drives spin at 600 rpm instead of 300 rpm, so you can't just swap for a modern drive without changing other things to (like the PLL and differentiator circuit, and the BIOS). > BTW, does anyone remember Steve Ciarcia's homebrew touchscreen articles > in Byte? I have the reprints somewhere, and it works in the same way as > the HP150 touchscreen - IR LED/detector pairs around the screen. I've got that reprint somewhere, too. "Let Your Fingers Do The Talking", Byte August 1978 and September 1978. A 16 x 16 grid of emitters/sensors. A box near the ned of the article says "An industrial grade alphanumeric terminal incorporating touch panel input is being manufactured. For information contact: General Digital Corp, 700 Burnside Av, East Hartford CT 06108". Another box says, "NOTE: Any one building a unit from these designs should be advised that they are covered by a number of patents by the University of Illinois and may not be sold for profit". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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HP 150 stiffies

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: > I've been finding parts of HP 150's for a few months now, and I finally > collected enough of them today for a complete system (including a new > in-the-box integral printer), but I'm short on stiffies. Anybody know a > source of stiffies? I have the 9121 drive, which I think is single-sided. They aren't special, any decent double-sided 720KB stiffies should be usable. At least that is what I used to do. Well, that is, unless you have one of the real early 9121s that doesn't open the door on the stiffy. That's why some of the older HP stiffies have "pinch" stamped in the corner -- for those drives, you're supposed to slide the door over to the left 'til it catches, then pinch where indicated to close it. I think the real contemporary stiffies for those early drives didn't have the spring to pull the door closed. But I've never actually seen one -- they didn't last very long, in fact by the time we got a loaner demo 150 at that PPOE (early-mid 1983) the diskette stiffy doors were fully automatic. > The HP 150's touchscreen is pretty cool. Is there a driver for it that > emulates a mouse? IIRC, this Mac-like box predates the Mac, doesn't it? Yes it does predate the Mac. Driver to emulate a mouse? I never heard of one. Applications that wanted to use the touchscreen were mostly expected to pretend they were talking to a terminal and read the escape sequences that get generated by the touchscreen (preferable). Fairly late in my HP150 experience (1985-1986 or so), I got hold of a couple of freeware TSRs that you could load to implement chunks of the PC ROM BIOS interface on the 150. I don't recall exactly what they did (video and datacomm, I think) but I did manage to get WordPerfect 4.1 to run on the 150 with their help. And I found copies of them on a 150 stiffy last month! Not the original distribution, but I think all the files are there. Time to figure out how to get 'em up on the net for y'all. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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Homebrew Computer Club Newsletter

by dastar＠wco.com

I was going through a box of stuff last night that I got several months ago from the same guy I got my first IMSAI from. He was around back in the day and used to attend all the Homebrew Computer Club meetings. Anyway, included in the box of magazines and brochures and such that he gave me was a folder with the Homebew Computer Club Newsletter from Vol.2 #1 (Jan. 1976) through Vol.2 #15 (Mar. 1977). This is sweet! I never knew that the HCC had a newsletter. Anyway, I haven't had a chance to go through them but there is some pretty wild stuff in them. The first issue I have has an "Open Letter to Hobbyists" from Bill Gates decrying the pirating of the Altair BASIC. The next issue has a response to Bill's letter chiding him for giving the software away in the first place and then complaining about piracy after the fact. Wild! I also found out I have Dr. Dobbs Journal of Computer Calisthenics and Orthodontia from Issue 1 on up through 1982. Sweet. I'll be reading through the Newsletters and will report any amazing revelations. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/05/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Bull/Convergent part ids

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

I picked up some unknown (to me) parts today for next to nothing. I would like to know what they are and if anyone wants these I can send them for the price of shipping. 2 externally identical modules, black plastic cases with 50 pin double row sockect connector. One is marked "Bull SA, type CMM1123 XVA M 7C 22940" the other "Convergent XM-003 AB for use with Ngen computers" and a sticker "1MB" I think these are 1Mb memory modules for Ngen computer? Then I have three apparently identical units. Metal boxes 10" x 3.5" x 1". There is a 120 pin connector of two rows of 60 pins. At one end is a 16 position thumbwheel switch, on one edge there are 8 LEDs in two block of 4 numbered 1-8. They all have Bull SA stickers with "Type CPF 1102" and "XVA K 22 06606" printed on them. Regards, Hans B Pufal

28 years, 1 month

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HP 150 stiffies

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

> >HP adopted 3.5" disks before they evolved into the disk used commonly >today, so newer disks aren't compatible. Of course, HP also used a >proprietary formatting scheme. > >-- Doug > Wronnngggg! They are compatible. I've been using regular commercial 3.5" disk in my HP 150, Integral and other HPs for years. You just have to format them in the HP machine to get the HP format. Almost all the HPs use different formats so you have to format them in the same type machine and drive that you're goint to use them in. FWIW all those floppy drives are made by Sony. I found a pretty good HP 150 FAQ. It's at "http://www.mdn.com/oksoftware/Computers/hp150faq.html". Joe

28 years, 1 month

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Off-topic help request

by dastar＠wco.com

Ok, how come when I'm using a windows95 based telnet client I get all sorts of wacky-assed errors when I'm using PINE, like "Folder closed due to access error" and "Folder reduced to 0 bytes" and "error this" and "error that". Basically stuff I never get when I'm using ProComm Plus. Why is this? Why is a bug-free telnet session such a chore under Windows? This is not just with the lame windows telnet either. I thought getting CRT would clear this up but it happens with that too. What's going on here? Any help would be greatly apprciated, especially in private e-mail. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/05/98]

28 years, 1 month

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HP 150 stiffies

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 9, 22:12, Frank McConnell wrote: > I think the real contemporary stiffies for those early drives didn't > have the spring to pull the door closed. But I've never actually seen > one -- they didn't last very long, in fact by the time we got a loaner > demo 150 at that PPOE (early-mid 1983) the diskette stiffy doors were > fully automatic. The first Apricot computers in the UK, and Sony wordprocessor systems, both used single-sided stiffies, with the catch for the shutter. They did have the spring, though. I've still got a few. The Sony systems used a proprietary format that I never had details of, but the Apricot used a variant of MS-DOS with 9 sectors per track, but only 70 tracks (315K/disk). The Apricot disks were a delicate shade of disgusting red, to match the colour of the company logo, but the Sony ones were the blue that became "standard". > > The HP 150's touchscreen is pretty cool. Is there a driver for it that > > emulates a mouse? IIRC, this Mac-like box predates the Mac, doesn't it? i had one for awhile, but missing the keyboard, so I gave it to someone else (who had a keyboard). Anybody got a system disk they could make an image of? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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Anyone interested in a CBM 8050 drive?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I got a line on two 8050 floppy drives for the PETs. I want one; would anyone be interested in the second one? Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separaator ==========>>>

28 years, 1 month

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Proposal: "Legacy" Open Products Partition

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>> Yes, we should have "levels" of experience. So that a Level 1 job could be > >Does this need to be done formally? I mean, when, for example, I bought >the service manual for my monitor, or the IBM techrefs, nobody bothered >to check I knew what I was doing with them. They just took my payment and >sent the manual. Not really formally, perhaps semi-formally. All pages would be rated, but we're not going to have an exam or anything. >While we need to be not responsible for how the information is used, I >think that should be the end of it. Yes, but just to give an aprox. guide. For instance, if someone wants to fix their old mono monitor, and they have a Level 2 hardware experience, they wouldn't want to read the Level 5 document, especially if they're busy, and don't want to spend too much time. It could also be used to give people a basic feeling of what they can-and cannot do. >Perhaps you could enlighten me. I know of only one way to fix a PCB - >look for obvious failures/shorts, power it up and start tracing signals >with a logic analyser. Is that the easy way or the hard way, and what is >the other way. That's the hard way. There are 2 easy ways that I know of: 1) Take it to a shop or 2) Get a new one. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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Support for obsolete products

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I understand the economic logic of no longer supporting products that aren't being sold (aren't making money) and that are deemed obsolete by being two generations behind today's products. But at that point, the company has decided that any ill will caused by this decision isn't worth the cost or aggravation of continued support. Certainly some companies turn over continued support to third parties - when the third party thinks there's some money in it. But what about a non-profit organization for products that absolutely no one wants to support? Just send them the docs and let them archive them. Companies donate old office equipment to good causes, why not old docs or source code? - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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Proposal: "Legacy" Open Products Partition

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>On the other hand, since DEC, HP and Tektronix have all helped me with >parts/docs for totally ancient machines, I am recomending those companies >to others. Exactly. This machine's a Compaq. Now, at the time, I solemnly thought that they were the best PC's available. Now, since then, I've had problems with the videocard, BIOS, busses, etc. When I contact their tech support, in general, they'll give me any solution that costs money, or charge me money for their time. >Be careful here. Ditto. >Some companies believe that they _are_ responsible for the information, >and any use to which it may be put. On several occasions I have been >refused a service manual because 'If you try to repair it and make a >mistake you could be killed' No amount of telling them that it's even >more dangerous to do the repair without the service manual worked. OK. So we'll need to say something like "No longer NEED be responsible for information." They need to share it, not give it. >It appears that there are too many lawyers who are there to put the blame >on somebody else when the customer makes a mistakes. I am not happy about >this, but.... > >Some companies will release 'safe' information (software sources, CPU >board schematics', but not 'dangerous' information (schematics of >monitors and PSUs, for example). I see. We'll need a disclaimer: "Anyinformation you recieve here could ultimately be harardous to your heatlh. DO NOT OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY WHILE READING A TECHNICAL DOCUMENT." (Last sentence lighthearted.) >If we do convince companies to release information, we'd need to have >some proper legal document which removed any responsibility from the >company. You use this info and hurt yourself - it's your fault. Yep. Does anyone know how the GPL was made???? >> 2) Central orginazation. Something like GNU, but less proffesional. It >> would contain all archives collected, as well as user-made enhancements, >> notes or other docs. (For example: Getting a ST 251 to work under > >You'd need to make it very clear which notes were 'official' and which >were 3rd party. Ditto. Also, we'd need to prioritize companies. Companies that were most likely to give us info first, and then less last. So that if we had 5 or 6 industry juggernauts giving us information, then possibly a company like Sharp just might. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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A little off-topic help needed...

by rax＠warbaby.com

Hi All - This is somewhat off-topic (maybe way-off-topic, depending on how you feel about Macs), but I've been trying to find some 30 pin, 8 or 16 meg simms for my girlfriend's Quadra 700. Anyone know of a source? R. -- Robert Arnold Managing Editor The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Creator and Eminence Grise Warbaby: The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. muahahahahaaaaa http://www.warbaby.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies.

28 years, 1 month

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ID some DEC parts...

by afritz＠iname.com

I'm not too familiar with the older DEC VAX hardware, but I've ended up with a MicroVAX 2000 and a few strange parts. H3104 -- 1 38-pin centronics on one side, 8 MMJs on the other (I'm guessing a terminal adapter of some sort) EE730 -- 1 DB9 and 1 DB15 on one side, 3 MMJs on the other. ( I don't have a clue what this is) BC16C -- a 25ft cable with a centronics on each end ( I'm guessing this connects the H3104 to the MV2k) What are these things? The middle item seems most puzzling to me. Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz(a)iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ----------

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>On Fri, 8 May 1998 Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk wrote: > >> The electronic one was interesting mainly for its display. It was >> fluorescent (greenish digits sealed in a long glass tube), but not >> 7-segment. Instead, there were (I think) nine segments, all of strange >> curly shapes, which made up digits much easier to read than the angular, >> blocky, 7-segment types. But I can no longer remember how these were >> arranged, nor even any details like the manufacturer of the calculator. >> >> Does anyone know of machines with such displays? > >Somebody was describing this same calculator to me yesterday. It was the >Sharp EL-8 and had a 9-segment display. > >> At what date were they made? > >Weren't these the first microprocessor-based calcs (4004) from around >1974? > The EL-8 was Sharp's original portable calculator from 1971 (in Japan in late 1970) and cost $345 back then (for your basic 4-function calculator!) The display is listed in my reference book as a flourescent -type tube display. I don't believe it used the 4004 chip - relatively few calculators actually did use the 4004. --Larry

28 years, 1 month

5
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Proposal: "Legacy" Open Products Partition

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>More seriously, we need something like 'This information is provided in >good faith, and is believed to be accurate. However, neither the original >manufacturer or <%group distributing it> can take any responsibility for >errors or omissions. Some of the procedures described in this documation >can be dangerous and should only be performed by suitably qualified >personnel' Yes, we should have "levels" of experience. So that a Level 1 job could be done with anyone that knows how to wield a screwdriver... (things such as adding RAM, a hard drive, or add-in card.), while a Level 5 should only be done with someone who's had lots of electronics experience. (Such as fixing a broken PCB or motherboard, the hard way). We could have tutorials to get a Level 1 to a Level 5, but it would still be their responsibility. >BTW, what _are_ the qualifications for computer repair? :-). My PERQ 1 >says 'Only qualified personnel should remove covers'. Nowhere does it >state what the qualifications are, so I assume I have them :-) Actually, I always thought that it was who ever could pay them enough money to become a "solution provider." Seriously, we should have the Levels as an internal rating system. I haven't seen such a system, but has one like this ever been used? (It's better to use a pre-existing system then to develop a new one, especially if the old one does what you want.) >-tony Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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HP Integral Re: the new Apple iMac

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote: > Not exactly, it has a built-in floppy drive that you can boot from, or > you can use an external drive on the HP-IB. >BUT< they also had an > optional ROM that contained an entire HP-UX system. HP called it a > software engineering ROM. From what i've been told they're extremely rare. > HP also made another ROM that contained a complete HP Technical BASIC in it. It doesn't boot from any kind of disks, as near as I can tell -- just auto-mounts them and hooks them into the RAM-resident filesystem. And it doesn't buffer writes, so it's safe to dismount stiffies with the eject button. And having looked at the HP-UX 5.x manuals, "entire HP-UX system" means "that subset supported on the IPC". It's pretty cut-down but usable in a single-user stand-alone non-networked (not even UUCP) PC sort of way. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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Floppiless (was: the new Apple iMac)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I kinda have to agree. My laptop has had a dead floppy drive for some ti <now; probably over 2 years. The only time I really miss it is a) when I <want to move data/pgms to a machine/person not "connected" or b) when I A handy way around that is to use intersvr and interlnk provided with dos 6.x. Those combined with a laplink serial or parallel cable can allow you to annex another systems drives for copies or installs. Using the parallel cable is faster. It's documented in the MSdos useres guide. I currently have a headless 386sx/25 with a few small hard disks, and two non 3.5" floppies and a CDrom that via parallel cable and the interlnk software serves and a sort of portable disk/cdrom/floppy to all my dos boxen. It's real handy for systems that only have a floppy or tiny hard disk. It saves having to have a network or anything more than a bootable disk with the programs on it (they are small!). Once running all of the disks on the server end are available as if they were connected locally. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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HP Integral Re: the new Apple iMac

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 01:35 PM 5/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 8 May 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > >> I learned from a friend who picked it up (for $3.10) at the swapmeet that >> HP made a lunchbox that had HP-UX all in ROM. No drives in the box. > >The Integral PC! Tell him I'll give him $10 for it :-) It is 68K-based >and has a small subset of HP-UX in ROM, but it really wants to boot from a >disk hanging off its HPIB bus. Not exactly, it has a built-in floppy drive that you can boot from, or you can use an external drive on the HP-IB. >BUT< they also had an optional ROM that contained an entire HP-UX system. HP called it a software engineering ROM. From what i've been told they're extremely rare. HP also made another ROM that contained a complete HP Technical BASIC in it. I just picked up my third IPC. One of mine has the Technical Basic Rom, one has the HP-UX ROM but the last one has both! :-) Joe

28 years, 1 month

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the new Apple iMac

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 8, 22:28, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > John Ruschmeyer wrote: > > I presume the system, like the Performas et al., will come with a > > bootable > > CD which can be used to restore the system to "factory" condition. > > And there went everything that was put on the disk after it left > the factory. Not necessarily, if it's done "right". Sun sparcstations and SGI workstations come with the O/S on bootable CD, and re-installing doesn't imply deleting all the other stuff that was added since the first factory install. The O/S and support software/datafiles can be added/replaced in modular fashion. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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Floppiless (was: the new Apple iMac)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:31 PM 5/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Actually, if I were to design a computer, I would consider not >> including a floppy drive, or at least making it so that it doesn't > >I totally agree. Any more, floppy disk drives are more a PITA than they >are useful. Creation is no longer the focus of home computing---the >browser took care of that issue. This means having removable, writeable >media is less of a priority. In the corporate setting, where computers are >still used primarily for creation and dissemination, you have LANs to >alleviate the need for such media. > >The floppy plays little role in modern computing. I kinda have to agree. My laptop has had a dead floppy drive for some time now; probably over 2 years. The only time I really miss it is a) when I want to move data/pgms to a machine/person not "connected" or b) when I want to install (floppy-only) software. The first is handled by the net, the second by getting software on CD (or swapping my HD into an identical machine with a good floppy.) Nowadays, data and programs are both so big as to make floppies unusuable. (Can you imagine backing up 1GB to floppy? 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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a few new finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

just a few new museum items: 1. TRS-80 model 100 portable manual 2. Zenith laptop model ZFL-184-01 3. Kaypro 16 20meg 1-5 1/4 FD 4. TI lowprofile KB 5. Corona model PC-21 6. Silicon Compilers D-Scan Graphic display model GR- 1104C missing kb 7. 2 Toshiba ext cd-roms 8. Sun shoebox 2 FD drives model SUNIPC-FPY2 one marked AT Compat the other PC compat 9. Beneath Apple ProDos by Don Worth and Pieter Lechner 10. 2 tech manuals for NeXT 1988 draft 11. Mac Performa 400 12. NeXT cube case 13. Apple Newton model 1000 with video tape and manuals 14. Sony ext scsi cdrom model CDU7205 15 8 ea Ti 99 game cartridges 16. Mac LCII needs HD 17. Many other non classic items waiting for their time

28 years, 1 month

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Help with AE

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I looking for the address , web site, phone number or any info to locate a company called AE or Applied Engineering, or AE Research Corp. I need some parts from them and manuals. Thanks in advance John

28 years, 1 month

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newbie question. digest?

by everly＠interpac.net

is there any way to get this list in digest form? also hello to sam ismail and uncle roger :-). thanks, Loren.

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Some years ago, when I was secondary school (grade|high school), someone donated two calculators which sat on a side table in the school computer room. One was a nice but not that rare wind-the-handle Facit. The other was more modern and electronic. The electronic one was interesting mainly for its display. It was fluorescent (greenish digits sealed in a long glass tube), but not 7-segment. Instead, there were (I think) nine segments, all of strange curly shapes, which made up digits much easier to read than the angular, blocky, 7-segment types. But I can no longer remember how these were arranged, nor even any details like the manufacturer of the calculator. Does anyone know of machines with such displays? At what date were they made? Did anyone ever do an LCD version of these, and if not, why not? And finally, what exactly were the segments and how did they fit together? I've tried to reconstruct the arrangement, but try as I might, I can't do it in fewer than twelve segments. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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the new Apple iMac

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<But I remember one computer from the early 80's (don't remember the name) <where the floppy was the computer -- a small SBC mounted on top of the <floppy, and that's all there was. AmproLB a complete z80, 64k, 2serial, printer port and SCSI on a board the size of a 5.25" floppy. I have one. I also have a SB180 that is faster with 4x the ram on a card half the size. Neither stepped around the problem by putting all of the base software on rom. The EPSON PX-8 did. I also did it for a s100 system years before that. With EPROMS, EEProms and Flash ram as dense as they are a 1.44mb floppy seems a lot of work. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Panasonic Senior Partner

by dastar＠wco.com

Well, I scored a Panasonic Senior Partner (IBM-compatible luggable) with a 20meg HD. No matter what the product, I always like what Panasonic manufactures. The design and (physical) user interface of stuff they make just works for me. Anyway, this one came complete with Rogue, Nethack and Mahjong installed. I just enjoyed a splendid game of Rogue which I haven't played in ages (made it to Level 8, Warrior with about 2500 gold). It also had some C code, some unix utils in C:\BIN and a file pertaining to Apollo workstations. Seems this machine used to be owned by a Unix hacker for sure. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/03/98]

28 years, 1 month

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the new Apple iMac

by peacock＠simconv.com

If this new Mac has no removeable media, what happens when the hard drive breaks? How do you re-install the OS? Off the net? Catch-22, OS isn't running, no TCP/IP stack. Off the USB? OK, then the boot ROM supports bootable media from the USB? I'm impressed, even PCs don't support that. And the removeable media of choice for the USB is? No wait, let me guess, a scanner...you load the OS by scanning in bar codes which contain the OS binaries. That would be, oh, about 100K pages to scan in? Or you just send the whole thing back to Apple, and if they have spares, and they are still in business, they send you back a nice new pre-installed disk, sans all the software and setup you had on it. Then you restore off the net, but uh oh, all you have is a 28.8Kb connection, and 400MB of backup. Good plan, system administrators will love this machine. No doubt corporate types will beat down Apple's door to buy it. Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

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Support for obsolete products

by jfoust＠threedee.com

John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)exit109.com> wrote: >One thing to remember here is that your logic is based on the premise >that the information still exists. Yes, of course. I wouldn't begin a quest of begging until I was sure the item existed. No Holy Grail searches for me. I think there are several categories of "lost": 1) it's somewhere in the vaults but we can't find it, 2) it's in the vaults but no I'm too busy to get it, 3) I can't get permission to get it out, 4) I've got it but I don't want to give it to you, 5) I can't give it you, 6) We'd have to pay a lawyer to say we can give it to you, etc. down through N) the company says they don't have it but an engineer we found on the net managed to save a copy. I'm more concerned about saving what we can, and getting official permission to do so, and being able to reproduce it in a more accessible fashion than it exists now. I can't do anything about things that don't exist. Tony Duell wrote: >Exactly. One problem that PERQ-fanatics have found is just who (out of >PERQ Logic Systems, Accent Systems, ICL, Varityper, etc) own what? And perhaps this can help the argument. If a company has completely lost or disregarded an asset that we can point out that they rightfully own, perhaps they'll be more friendly if we ask to take care of it for them. Buy-outs and acquisitions tend to prune away less valuable (but no less *interesting*) technologies. My Quest involves telling Lockheed-Martin that they own the Terak. Wish me luck. :-) Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> wrote: >"Inventory" tax means that for as long as you hold the merchandise, >you will continue to be taxed every bloody year unless you bite the >bullet and throw the stuff away. In my understanding of accounting, this "tax" doesn't exist. I think the previous writer doesn't understand why the bean counters want to get rid of inventory. There are certainly exceptions that rile the blood of small- and large-L libertarians, but in my experience in US small business, you are only taxed once. A B.C. wants to reduce inventory for other reasons - it's money tied up in junk that's not selling, not gaining interest, and isn't growing in value. When it comes time to dumpster it, it becomes a write-off loss and its original cost is probably taken as a deduction of some kind, which alone makes it valuable to the bottom line. So, the original poster's notion is correct - the complications of taxation tends to make companies dump old stuff. It's like property tax - it forces people to find a way for the land to generate at least that much cash, which discourages people from buying land and simply preserving it as-is. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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Zenith Z90

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Well I'll be darned! I read those post wondering what the diference was between a Z90 and a Zenith Z89 (Which is what I thought is what I had) just to finally discover that I don't have a Z89 at all. Better change that entry in the web site. Now I'm going to have to check all my machines and make sure I have all the model numbers right :) . Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >Z90). The Z90 was a Zenith Data Systems-branded machine which is Heath >factory-built. It had a bit different setup than the factory-built or kit >versions bought from Heath (the H-89). Don't quite know what those >differences were though, but the H-89 and Z-90 were still very similar.

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>On Fri, 8 May 1998, Larry Groebe wrote: > >> The EL-8 was Sharp's original portable calculator from 1971 (in Japan in >> late 1970) and cost $345 back then (for your basic 4-function >> calculator!) The display is listed in my reference book as a flourescent >> -type tube display. > >That sounds right. The guy I talked to mentioned that it was IC-based, >not micro-based. > >> I don't believe it used the 4004 chip - relatively few calculators >> actually did use the 4004. > >I think it was a deal between Busicom and Intel for a calculator chip that >produced the 4004 and started the microprocessor revolution, right? > >-- Doug True- although IIRC Busicom didn't actually use the 4004 as things worked out. There's a nice webpage devoted to the 4004 at: http://home1.gte.net/ccourson/4004.htm --Larry

28 years, 1 month

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Support for obsolete products

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:14 PM 5/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >Some of the folks at Motorola are also good about stuff like this. Many >times I have needed data sheets for some of their more obscure, long >obsolete chips, and they came thru with free photocopies from some ancient >databooks. I dunno how efficient it would be, but perhaps interested parties could volunteer to format and html-ize old databooks, etc. for companies. They wouldn't have to do any effort (except provide the source documents) but then they could post them on their web site and make them available to anyone. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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Vigilance and Vacuum Tubes (fwd)

by william＠ans.net

Found on another list... <snip> A talk on the SAGE System (1956-63) will be given at Moffett Field on Tuesday evening May 19, 5:30-7 PM. SAGE was Semi-Automatic Ground Environment, embodied as 22 monster computers (250 tons) each with 49,000 vacuum tubes consuming 3 megawatts of power. Parts of the last SAGE system, decommissioned in 1982, will be behind the speakers. For details, see www.computerhistory.org/sage. <snip> William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> The electronic one was interesting mainly for its display. It was <> fluorescent (greenish digits sealed in a long glass tube), but not <> 7-segment. Instead, there were (I think) nine segments, all of strange <> curly shapes, which made up digits much easier to read than the angular <> blocky, 7-segment types. But I can no longer remember how these were <> arranged, nor even any details like the manufacturer of the calculator < <These are called "Nixie Tubes". But don't ask me much more about it. I <just know what they're called. I have at least one nixie-tube calculato Not Nixie tubes as they were exactly 12 "segments" 0-9 and a decimal point on either side. Their color was neon orange from the gas use to fill them. They were glow discharge rather than fluoresent typically bluish green. VF diplays were also available in red, yellow, blue, green and white or combinations. Both technologies are from the "magic eye" tubes and neon lamps of 30years+ prior. The biggest difference between nixie from a calculator standpoint was nixies needed about a 60-80 volt swing to ignite/quench at low current where VF displays were typically 10-30v. I have a 40x2x(7x5) dot matrix character display bottle (VF) and several 7 segment claculator displays also VF in raw form. Nixies, my Yasu 355D frequency counter uses them (purchased new in 1974!) still works. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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No wait... I got another tape to boot...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I found a 3rd tape that boots OK. Seems the first 2 that I thought were good might not be! Sorry for being a pest. -------

28 years, 1 month

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OOps, I halt a 10, not 20/

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

-------

28 years, 1 month

1
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RSTS isn't done with me yet...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

WHen trying to boot MS0:, from INIT 8.0-07, it halts at 20. I boot 8.0 off the DU0:, say BO MS0:, the tape shuffles back and forth awhile, and it stops at 20. What's that mean? -------

28 years, 1 month

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Calculator displays

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Nixies are also not a generic term; it's trademarked by, I believe, <Honeywell. When other manufacturers made similar displays (sometimes <incadescent, even) they were called "Numerons", "Numatrons", "Decatrons" <and various other terms. Quite often these displays were more dissimila <than similar, to tell you the truth (there were probably patent issues <involved in addition to trademark issues.) Yes patent issues and different drive methods. The decatron or Numatrons I forget which had 10 pins around the permimiter that would glow ehn active and there was a steering electrode to force a "shift up" or "shift down". They took advantage of the hysterisys of Neon gas displays (turns on at higher voltages than turn off. There was also a dot matrix display by burroughs "self scan" I have a 32 char version. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Classic prices at eBay...

by mor＠crl.com

Man things over on eBay are getting hairy. A Sol-20 and IMSAI 8080 recently went for over $600 ea. And the Sol-20 may not have sold because the seller's "reserve price" was not even met... Currently there is a MITS Altair 680 at $1,825 and an Apple Lisa at $500, both with over 2 days to go until the deadline. Oh well, it's back to the old thrift and scrounge circuit for me. -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/

28 years, 1 month

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TS04 bootstrap?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Does anyone have the TS04 bootstrap? -------

28 years, 1 month

1
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Another good week for museum

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well it's be a good week but a little costly. Here's a short list; 1. The Sound Source by Disney lets have sound without a sound card hooks to printer port. 2. My second Mac Portable with case and manual, it works too! 3. Apple flat bed scanner model A9M0337 4. Zeos 386sx/20 powers up fine 5. 3M Whisper Writer 1000 teleprinter model 1482A 6. Hickok model 3301 digital multimeter 7. Heathkit utility voltmeter model 1M-17 042 8. Mac IIcx case with motherboard only had 8 1 meg simms in it (was free) 9. Fluke 901A Micro-system troubleshooter with manuals, service guides, newsletter and the following test PODs Fluke Z80/aa, Fluke 8085, Fluke 68000, Fluke 9900, Fluke 6800, Fluke 6809/6809E,Fluke 8086, Fluke 8080 10. HP colorpro model 74445A has power brick, manuals, color pins 11. Several packs of Fluke Instrument Accessory parts 12. Dr. Dobb's Essential Hypertalk Handbook 13. Computer Device miniterm 14. Monroe Beta 326 Scientist with manual and case, tape unit with power supply 15. Commodore PC-10III with KB and mouse 16. Tandy 1000 17 Commodore 128D 18. AGI 1700C 386sx/16 not tested yet 19. NEC multisync II not tested yet 20. Tandy 1000TL/3 model 25-1603 21. Tandy 1000HX manual 22. IBM PS/2 model 60 23. PB Legend I model PB686 24. TI99/4A in box 25. Commodore mouse 1351 26. Tandy RGB monitor CM-5 Well that's the short list there were alot more items and books but that's for anohter day. Keep Computing John

28 years, 1 month

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Support for obsolete products

by jfoust＠threedee.com

"Jeff Kaneko" <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com> >You know, this idea makes sense. But have a feeling that most >product managers (the guys most in the position to make these >decisions) are so far removed from the product, so intimidated by >the almighty 'Company Policy (tm)', (not to mention hair being way, >way too pointy) that even this will not get consideration. Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: >Well, I'm sure we all think that would be a Good Thing, but just try >convincing companies of that. OK, help me brainstorm arguments to persuade companies to release obsolete information. Certainly pointy-haired managers (does the cartoon "Dilbert" cross the pond?) will opt for the simple safe solution of "don't let anything out of the office, or out of our control". And there's the question of money to be made. As soon as someone seems interested in old technology, they'll believe there's still some money to be made. Then there's the question of the cost and trouble of drafting or approving any legal document to make the transaction official. Why spend money on giving away products? - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

8
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Low-end Unix (was: TI99: Anyone reading this with a TI-99/4A?)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:12 PM 5/3/98 -0400, you wrote: ><To my knowledge no flavor of unix runs on anything less than a 32-bit ><processor. There's a unix-workalike for the C-64/128, but that's not > >Your knowledge is limited. Unix was started and lived for years on >PDP-11s (a 16 bit machine) in the form of V5, V6, V7 and 2.9BSD and >2.11BSD. I may add it was on other machines like the Interdatas. I have heard tell (from a very reliable source) of a version of Unix written for the Radio Shack Model 100 (8085, 32K max). (And no, it's not available, and yes, he's tried to get the company that did it to release it.) I thought someone had said that CP/M was based on Unix? Or was that one of the PDP opsys? >I find the idea of not less than 32bits, 200mhz cpus and large memory >being a must to be patently retrorevisionist to the history of what was >done before those things were available. Yep. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

4
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TRS80 manual

by RTSJackson＠aol.com

I am trying to locate a manual for a TRS 80 model 100 or 102. Can you help? A photo-copy will do nicely. Thank you for your help. I'm located in Jackson, Mississippi. Steven Froehlich

28 years, 1 month

2
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Fwd: 75 lbs of DEC Ultrix manual for free

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Found on comp.sys.dec - if interested please reply to the originator - webdolphin(a)my-dejanews.com This amounts to around 20-25 three ring binders, and is good information on Unix operations, processes, and commands even if you don't have Ultrix. Mike ------------------------------------------------------ Subject: 75 lbs of DEC Ultrix manual for free From: webdolphin(a)my-dejanews.com Date: Thu, May 7, 1998 15:59 EDT Message-id: <6it0a3$gki$1(a)nnrp1.dejanews.com> Hi all, Anyone interested in a complete set of Digital Ultrix manuals dating from 1990/1991? I am assuming they are complete, given a lot of them are still shrinkwrapped. Email me with your physical address with a Fedex or UPS account number if you want the stuff. Otherwise the box is going into the dumpster come next Thursday. Allister

28 years, 1 month

1
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the new Apple iMac

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, if I were to design a computer, I would consider not <including a floppy drive, or at least making it so that it doesn't <depend on it. I have six VAX computers and NONE have floppies. Why, becuase even 1.44mb floppies make sense in that environment. Since they have tapes and are networked together floppy is of little use. With the size of applications and all a writeable CDrom or a ZIP disk makes more sense than floppy. Further, I'm working on a z280 design and am seriously considering no floppy. Why? Eats power and space for intermittent use at best. I'd rather use a utility I wrote years ago to transfer files via serial port (back when no two machines had the same format or size floppy). I even intend to put the whole OS and then some in EEprom as it's cheaper and faster that floppy or hard disk. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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the new Apple iMac

by dastar＠wco.com

Anyone see the new Apple iMac unveiled today? I like it. Instant classic. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/03/98]

28 years, 1 month

5
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(Same Apple Here?) Re: the new Apple iMac

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. It just occured to me: Apple is known (with the ][) to have pioneered low cost floppy drives. They're the ones that made it a good alternitive to tape. But still, I agree, floppies arn't really an important part today, other than a remembrance of the past. (Has anyone seen those "Download warehouses" wherer you download software?) Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 3:34 AM Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac >I don't know if I'd characterize the Sony 400K as "totally blameless", since >the floppy drives in all of my other old systems (both 5.25" and 3.5") have >about a 5% dead-on-acquire rate, while the Mac 128s I find are maybe 75% in >the dead floppy department. The 800K drives were much more reliable. The >big 400K chassis has lots of lubricant on it which after 10 years or so >turns into a rubber cement consistency and gums up the works. There's >nothing to do but to hit the whole thing with TV Tuner cleaner and re-lube >it. Pain in the butt, if you ask me. > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kip Crosby [mailto:engine@chac.org] >Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 4:47 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac > > >At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >>One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) > >Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which >worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been >the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring >the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of >evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with. > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California >

28 years, 1 month

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Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> <Now contrast this with an analog filter, which performs a singular <function based on the laws of physics. No instructions, no codes, no <processing unit. Therein lies the distinction. The explanations of physics is based on the core of mathmatics. That's one way to look at it. Consider it from the perspective of a mathmatics view. Signal goes in FNC(x) is performed on it and signal comes out. FNC(x) can be performed using a DSP or analog circuits >from the outside of the black box dos it make much difference how? Computing is a process of calculation. Analogue functions perform calculation vastly different than the digital forms it does not negate the calculation performed. If this wasn't true digial signal processing would not be possible. I still have the Popular Electronics article that simulates the bounce of a ball in analogue form using opamps while displaying it graphically on a scope. Yes the ball would even flatten at the bottom of the bounce. Years later I would write a program to do the same, the mathmatics were unchanged as where the physics. The analogue form was faster at showing how small changes had an effect, it could be real time. The digital form allowed me to express those as floatingpoint numbers. Even on a PDP11 at the time, it would never approach real time. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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the new Apple iMac

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I don't know if I'd characterize the Sony 400K as "totally blameless", since the floppy drives in all of my other old systems (both 5.25" and 3.5") have about a 5% dead-on-acquire rate, while the Mac 128s I find are maybe 75% in the dead floppy department. The 800K drives were much more reliable. The big 400K chassis has lots of lubricant on it which after 10 years or so turns into a rubber cement consistency and gums up the works. There's nothing to do but to hit the whole thing with TV Tuner cleaner and re-lube it. Pain in the butt, if you ask me. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Kip Crosby [mailto:engine@chac.org] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 4:47 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 1 month

1
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the new Apple iMac (last words?)

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>If this new Mac has no removeable media, what happens when the hard >drive breaks? How do you re-install the OS? No doubt you'll re-install the OS from the built-in CD-ROM drive, as all Apple machines already do now. > >Good plan, system administrators will love this machine. No doubt >corporate types will beat down Apple's door to buy it. Quite clearly, this machine is not designed as a Corporate machine. One look at the physical design alone is enough to establish that this is for home use. Apple continues to sell quite traditionally designed machines for THAT market segment. ---- And now that we've all hashed and re-hashed the merits of this day-old computer, can we return to discussing our 10-year old classics? Let's all agree to meet and re-evaluate the iMac in 2008.

28 years, 1 month

1
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Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Non electronic digital _computers_ are a lot rarer. If we decide that a <computer has to have a sequence of operations and some kind of <conditional branching, I can't think of any at the moment. Mechanical <sequencers, based normally on camshafts are common, of course. You kidding, air logic has been around for years and frequently used in atmospheres or other considerations that would prohibit using electronic or electically power controls. The basic elements such as switchs valves and oneshots all exist and can be combined into digital functions. I know I demonstrated a system where several inputs (switches) had to be true before a sequenced action using two bistable elements and a oneshot. It's not fast but fun to watch! <Are you thinking of 'Digital circuits are built from analogue parts' ? Not a valid concept. both OR and AND gates can be done using totally non amplifying devices (diodes). It was Vonda that postulated that digital was analogue with a precision of two states, true and false. The realm of analogue is one of infinite precision but possibly of limited accuracy. The digital realm is one of limited precision and absolute accuracy. <As a practical point for this list, if just about all (analogue) circuits <are analogue computers, then they are on-topic here :-). No I don't As a final thought, analogue circuits often perform complex functions. This very aspect and the realization that precision and accuracy are very differnt commodities are why some fuction are easy to do using an analogue approach and can be very difficult to do digitally. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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the new Apple iMac

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I can imagine a floppy disk stealing his college thesis. Pretty likely, actually. AFAIK, though, NO NeXT has shipped with floppies, but rather with MOs, which are pretty annoying because of the many formats and price per disk. Actually, if I were to design a computer, I would consider not including a floppy drive, or at least making it so that it doesn't depend on it. Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges >personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his sister? >Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own? > >Whatever grievous harm a floppy drive has done to him in the past, >it must have been quite bad for him to hold a grudge this long. > >> Tom > >-Seth > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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the new Apple iMac

by engine＠chac.org

At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 1 month

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the new Apple iMac

by peacock＠simconv.com

Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges >personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his sister? >Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own? One word....Twiggy Anyone who ever used a twiggy floppy drive would swear off floppies forever. Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

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terminal keyboards needed

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Well I found agood home for the otherwise in my way terminals and the new owner is in need of a keyboard for the VT 100 and the VT 220. A few people wrote me in the past but I'm not sure who it was but if you email me direct I can relay your message to this person in New Hamster and he can contact you about them. He is getting working units for the cost of shipping and I imagine he has some collection intent for them -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

2
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the new Apple iMac

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges >personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his sister? >Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own? > >Whatever grievous harm a floppy drive has done to him in the past, >it must have been quite bad for him to hold a grudge this long. One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) Kai

28 years, 1 month

1
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Whilt I sill have use of this camera, any requests?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I finished posting those pictures. http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Does anyone want a picture of anything special in there? -------

28 years, 1 month

2
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the new Apple iMac

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| -----Original Message----- | From: David Wollmann [mailto:dwollmann@ibmhelp.com] | Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 1:40 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: the new Apple iMac | | is/will there be a USB Zip drive? Nope. Kind of off the classic subject but... USB is for sound, keyboards, pointing devices, joysticks, single-user printers, and low-bandwidth video such as webcam/lowres videoconferencing/frame capture. USB is a low-speed bus that is already overwhelmed with all of these duties without dropping a very high bandwidth storage device on there as well. The last thing you want is for your mouse to get choppy when you print, for example. The "high speed" version of USB is only 1.5MBps and Dolby Digital AC-3 DVD audio can take half of that alone. We are strongly evangelizing against anyone doing fast storage devices for USB. IEEE1394/Firewire is the connection of choice for full motion video/editing, storage devices, workgroup printers, etc. Kai

28 years, 1 month

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Proposal: "Legacy" Open Products Partition

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK.. this is very quick, but basically, I want to outline the following points for making a way for old, no longer profitable hardware/software to make it available: Reasons To Change 1) Public relations. People who think that you're giving away info on products that your company made will have a profound effect on anyone involved. 2) No longer responsible for the information. You don't have to archive old data anymore, meaning that you can make information lean and clean. Support for old products can come from those who now hold the information. 3) Recieve credit for work. You (the company giving information) will get credit for your work, meaning that if someone thinks that Product A Rev. 1.x has innovation, then Product B 8.x will, too. Also, it means that you significantly increase your user base without costly advertising/marketing campaigns. Now, here's what I propose needs to happen to get this done: 1) Liscense agreement. This would be similiar to the GPL (in the fact that it's free, but does not bar anyone from profiting by information.) 2) Central orginazation. Something like GNU, but less proffesional. It would contain all archives collected, as well as user-made enhancements, notes or other docs. (For example: Getting a ST 251 to work under Linux/Windows) Then for support, tech. support reps. could reffer ceretain products to the orginiaztion and not waste any more time. This would prove to save companies time and money, especially if it saves training. 3) Petition would need to be made of lots of people (Founding members) willing to support this idea, weather through time, money, or just a name giving support. For the liscense agreement, we need to be as flexible as possible to get as much information as possible. So we'd have levels, where any information could be used for commercial purposes (building new drives based on information), where it could be used for referance (for instance fixing a drive), or for "small" commercial purposes. (For example, Fredrick's XT Part Shop could build new Seagate MFM drives/re-sell modified copies of PC-DOS 1.x, whereas Maxtor couldn't.) So, this is just a basic list, and I want it to get improved, then when we're sure we know what we want, finilize it, legalize it, put it on the web, and propose to hardware/software manufactuers. Just my 0.02 (with interests, no doubt.) Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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the new Apple iMac

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>Anyone see the new Apple iMac unveiled today? I like it. Instant >classic. Has me excited. Beautiful design, fast G3 processor, really cheap...But does it have a SCSI port? A floppy drive? Those are two things I can't make do without. Tom

28 years, 1 month

4
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Data General's AOS operating system and its MP/OS operating syste m

by jconklin＠leydig.com

I am searching for a source of manuals and any related documentation for Data General's Advanced Operating System (AOS) and for its MP/OS operating system. The AOS ran on DGs Eclipse minicomputer. The MP/OS ran on DGs microprocessor-based MicoNova. Someone suggested you may be able to help. Can you? John Conklin (312) 616-5600

28 years, 1 month

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Zenith Z90

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2150 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980505/f571bb36/at…

28 years, 1 month

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Prototype Apple //c found

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > Was "TERI" the codename for the Apple //c? Moby. At least that's what I get from this book I got turned onto: _AppleDesign: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group_, by Paul Kunkel, photos by Rick English, ISBN 1-888001-25-9, published by Graphis, 1997. Mini-review: |<00|_ pictures of computers and concept models and other things. Emphasis is on industrial design, not technology. The text is marred by typos and an overall feeling that the author thinks Apple and those responsible are just too cool for words. Maybe they are. Or maybe it's just that I've had enough of dealing with PC-contemptibles with funny disk-drive rails and the like that I'm not real tolerant of k00l kasewerk any more. They sure are pretty pictures, though.... -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

2
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Support for obsolete products

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I would also recommend that if you come across a company that helps with old systems like the story about the tape drive, be sure to let the company know their help is appreciated. hopefully that will still give them an incentive to continue to offer help. david

28 years, 1 month

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Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<altering the computer (machine) is that there is a definite distinction <between the circuitry to drive the logic unit (CPU) and the circuitry <which defines the stored program (code). So while a masked ROM cannot b <altered, you can swap out the ROM with a new ROM with a completely <different set of instructions, while the rest of the circuitry which <executes the code remains unmodified. Apply that to the 8048 or other single chip mcu. <digital computers and not analogue. I think the murky area being argued <here is strictly pertaining to analog computers since it is indeed a <series of filters and amplifiers combined to manipulate analog signals. <digital computer is something quite different, and I think quite easy to <define. Thats the point. Many exceedingly simple looking analogue systems perform what would take a fairly complex digital system to simulate.

28 years, 1 month

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[Again!] New toy! Digital camera! Wanna see my pile?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Second try, doesn't look like the first one made it through. School bought a digital camera, and I get to play with it... I'll be posting pictures of my 11/44 Pile (GALAXIA) at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Go take a look! -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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Microsoft BASIC 80 non-disclosure agreement

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:14 PM 5/5/98 +0100, you wrote: >When I call Tech Support I will have made some attempts to check the >obvious, gather evidence, and solve the problem. In particular : > >I'll have checked the 'bleeding obvious' - that it's plugged in, that I >am running the program I think I am running, etc Ah, but you are (especially for mainstream stuff) reasonably rare. The average I-bought-my-computer-at-circuit-city-and-got-a-free-hair-dryer idiot has done none of that. Most likely, he's tripped over the power cord and unplugged it, or tried to install a pirated game that had a virus and his hd is toast or... Which does, I agree, present a problem for those of us who *do* know what we're doing. There's nothing I hate more than having some nitwit read the manual to me. (Unless, of course, I'm calling because I don't have the manual.) Dunno if there's a solution. I try to find a knowledgeable support person for software/hardware I use a lot and make sure they know who I am and that I'm not a git. >I'll be sitting in front of my machine with a 'scope, logic analyser, >software debugger, etc at the ready "you're out there, man, like f***ing pluto." 8^) >IBM are better than most, at least for providing parts/manuals. They may >claim that a machine never existed (IBM UK told be there was 'no such >thing as a PC-jr'), but they can often find all sorts of things given a >part number or forms number. IBM does seem to be pretty good. I requested info about a couple of "PC-Radio's" I picked up, and got back a lot of info (albeit badly formatted. 8^) >Sending in bug reports (and even better, fixes) for ancient products is >great fun :-). I would think calling would be better still. 8^) >> And DON'T COPY ANY SOFTWARE. I don't even care if it was made by a >> criminal, it gives you no right to do the same. Yep. Fastest way to put a company out of business is to steal their product. Hmmm... Anyone want a copy of Microsoft Office? 8^) (JUST KIDDING!!!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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New toy! Digital camera! Let's take pictures of my pile...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

School bought a digital camera, and I get to play with it! I'll be posting pictures at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav until about 2:35 PM. (When school's out.) Go ahead and take a look! -------

28 years, 1 month

1
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What's an Emulex TC12?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Just dug one out of the board pile. What is it? Is it a 9-track controller? (Please, oh please...) -------

28 years, 1 month

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Do we belong on list?

by nhdirect＠tiac.net

Should our service be on your list? I have included a write up that we publish to selected newsgroups. Would our service be of interest to your members. David nhdirect(a)tiac.net New Hampshire Computer Flea Market ?Bring unwanted computer items to sell, and/or buy at bargain prices? Someone is looking for the computer hardware and software that you no longer use. Sell those items at the Computer Flea Market on Sunday May 10 from 9 AM to 2 PM, at Daniels Hall, Rt 4, Nottingham, NH. This is an excellent opportunity to turn your unwanted computer hardware & software, MAC or PC, games, etc., into cash, or purchase at bargain prices. Also just come to swap ideas with other local computer users. Free admission to those folks coming to look and possibly buy, and $5.00 admission for those bringing items to sell. Join us at the flea market on the 2nd Sunday of every month. Food & drink are available. Dealers are also welcome ($20.00 table charge, electricity included). Dealers should reserve display space by e-mailing nhdirect(a)tiac.net or calling 603 942-8525. Visit the Computer Flea Market web page at: http://www.tiac.net/users/nhdirect/flea.html Sponsored by S&D Associates

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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What's an Emulex TC12?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 19:07, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Subject: Re: What's an Emulex TC12? And I sent an unsigned repy. Normal sig has now been restored :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Low-end Unix (was: TI99: Anyone reading this with a TI-99/4A?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I have heard tell (from a very reliable source) of a version of Unix <written for the Radio Shack Model 100 (8085, 32K max). (And no, it's no <available, and yes, he's tried to get the company that did it to release Call me skeptical, 8085 is far less code efficient that z80. <I thought someone had said that CP/M was based on Unix? Or was that on <of the PDP opsys? CP/M was based on OS/8 and RT-11, it is very un-unix. DEC Ultrix-11 and Ultrix-32 are both unix based on BSD versions. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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the new Apple iMac

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I disagree. Apple, at least to me, represents that innovation can live in today's computer industry, and that being different makes you ahead, not behind of the crowd. (And yes, I thought that BEFORE Apple's current marketing campaign.) Looks cool, but I want more information, and, as most people go, they'll need reasons to want a $1.3K over a $600-$800 PC. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 11:10 AM Subject: Re: the new Apple iMac >At 12:26 AM 07-05-98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >> >>Anyone see the new Apple iMac unveiled today? I like it. Instant >>classic. > >The best comment so far at work was that after its useful life it would be >much easier to convert into a fishbowl. Just turn upside down and fill :-) > >Does look cool, but I'd like to touch one before committing one way or the >other. In my scheme of things, MacOS is about fourth or fifth choice. > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au > Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 >1999 > La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

28 years, 1 month

1
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Here's 2 morde boards to ID...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 19:25, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Anyway, what are the: > EMULEX SC03 It's a QBus controller for SMD drives. It will support two physical drives, making them emulate two (or more, if necessary) logical DEC drives. We need to know the suffix (SC03/A, SC03/B, SC03/C) as there are at least three versions, emulating different drives. I have an SC03 which emulates RM03s, but there's an MSCP version as well. I've got the manual for this one, too. > Dilog CQ2010 QBus communications controller of some sort. I don't know the details on this one, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

1
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[Try 3!] New toy! Digital camera. Wanna see my pile?

by root＠linux.epchs.k12.il.us

Try #3, I can't seem to mail out from toad... School got a new digital camera, and I get to play with it. I've posted pictures of my 11/44 (GALAXIA) [My Pile] up at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Enjoy! Now, can I borrow this sucker for a weekend...

28 years, 1 month

1
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Here's 2 morde boards to ID...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Wow, the lag is terrible! (FTping something...) Anyway, what are the: EMULEX SC03 Dilog CQ2010 -------

28 years, 1 month

1
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What's an Emulex TC12?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 13:06, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Subject: What's an Emulex TC12? > Just dug one out of the board pile. > What is it? > Is it a 9-track controller? (Please, oh please...) I think so; I expect it's the Unibus equivalent of my QBus TC02. I've got the manual if you need to ask about it.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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Microsoft BASIC 80 non-disclosure agreement

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Oh, I'll be gentle with them, and polite, at least to start with. But >when _I'm_ paying for the call (often at a premium rate), or even worse >am paying for so-called tech support, I expect a little more than a >person who treats me like somebody who can't even read. In other words I >expect _technical_ support on the product that they supplied me with. Exactly. I also expect if the technical support is not via phone (IE from e-mail, web based, etc.) to get a timely answer. With my old soundcard, it was 3 months, by which time I'd gotten so fed up I'd figured it out anyway. Now I use a real Sound Blaster AWE 64. I like the cool sound. >> Have you ever gotten a response? > >Other than the obvious 'we don't support that any more' or 'A bug in a 20 >year product, you must be mad to expect us to do anything about it', no, >not really. Well, yeah, but if you're lucky and get the right people... Or if you say that it had a "lifetime warranty." Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

3
3
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Serendipity

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I was at the scrap yard yesterday, picking up some aluminum blocks to play with on my new CNC milling machine, and decided to take a stroll out where they occasionally dump old mainframe parts. It's just this huge mud lot about 2 blocks square, with big mounds of twisted metal, wire, cable, crushed cars, and all kinds of other junk, with a bunch of bits of electronics thrown in more or less at random. I wasn't in the mood for a lot of climbing, so I just poked around the edges. I found a board about 18" square sitting on top of a barrel. When I picked it up, it was *way* too heavy for the size. Flipped it over and saw another, smaller board screwed to the bottom. It was marked "DataRAM". I thought "Oh no - surely not. It can't be core memory! But it's so *heavy*! What is it?" I took it along. I also found an old controller module of some kind with an RCA 1802 and support chips on it; now maybe I can finally build a real Elf. Anyway, they sell everything by the pound, and the two pieces cost me about $2. Brought it home, removed all the screws around the edge, pulled off the smaller board, and guess what? Acres of core! Tiny little ones, too - I haven't seen that much core, but the other small piece I have has cores with a center hole about the size of a pencil lead. These were so small they looked like grains of sand, or salt. Had to use a 12x magnifier to see them clearly. By my count, there are about 100 per inch in both directions, and it's about 8"x10", with a few gaps here and there, so this gives... ummm... (square root of 7, carry the 9...) uh... something under 800k-bits or so? Does this sound right? Anyway, I was pretty pumped. I may go back and do some serious climbing and burrowing this weekend... -Bill Richman bill_r(a)inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

28 years, 1 month

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FW: PDP-11/73 in NJ available

by kyrrin＠jps.net

I have no clue what this guy considers a 'serious' offer. Maybe someone on the list can 'offer' to haul it away...? ;-) Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On 04 May 1998 01:49:25 GMT, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote: >>From: rmweiss(a)aol.com (RMWeiss) >>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 >>Subject: pdp11/73 for sale-fully functioning >>Lines: 6 >>Message-ID: <1998050401492500.VAA29644(a)ladder01.news.aol.com> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com >>X-Admin: news(a)aol.com >>Date: 04 May 1998 01:49:25 GMT >>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >> >>located in New Jersey, very recently retired system. stand alone case, 1meg >>mem,160 meg Fujitsu drive, tape backup, peripherals, etc. Please address any >>serious offers and questions to Ronny at RMWeiss(a)aol.com or call (800) 526-3192 >>M-F 9-5 EDT. >>Thanks for your interest. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 1 month

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FW: FREE PDP-11/84's -- in Scotland!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Here's a twist. Anyone in or near Scotland care to take a stab at this rescue? Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Wed, 6 May 1998 22:34:19 +0100, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote: >>From: Ian A McDonald <iam(a)st-andrews.ac.uk> >>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 >>Subject: PDP-11/84's going free >>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:34:19 +0100 >>Organization: St. Andrews University >>Lines: 23 >>Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980506223042.10932A-100000@maths> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: maths.st-and.ac.uk >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >>NNTP-Posting-User: iam >>X-Sender: iam(a)st-andrews.ac.uk >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!st-and!maths!iam >> >>St. Andrews, Fife, Scotland >> >>2 off pdp-11/84 2mb >>Processors fine, >>disks dead, >> >>free to anyone who cares enough to save them from the skip. >>I know little about their internals, but we've been ordered to skip them. >>I'm hoping for a good home for them. >>Unfortunately, it's a buyer collect deal, but we're asking no money. >> >>-- >>Ian >> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Oh, God is playing marbles, >>With His Planets and his Stars, 1084 New Hall, >>Creating havoc through my life, St Andrews, >>With his influence on Mars ... Fife, >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 1 month

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The PC's Soviet?

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 03:56 29/04/98 -0400, you wrote: >Believe it or not, I think there *was* a "Lemon" Apple clone. My father >and I still occasionally joke about it. And we didn't get it from BYTE. True! Here in Italy there was a manufacturer that called theyr Apple clones "LEMON". ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONES ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager(DTMF PHONES)=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key |4 help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 1 month

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RSX-11 Disk Images anyone?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<be interested. Will they be SYSGEN-able? That's one thing I miss in <the RT-11 image that came with the emulator. But I'm not going to look <a gift horse in the mouth. Rt-11 does not require sysgening like RSX or RSTS So just the binaries of the standard monitors (SJ, FB, XM and BJ) and the standard drivers is all that's needed to use it effectively. RT-11 really only requires the disk used to boot to have the boot blocks installed (copy/boot) and it will run on all PDP11s and most all disks. Known disks supported in v5 were the all the RXnn drives regardless of controller (rx01/2/3/50/33) all the RD drives, RK drives, pro350(DW/DZ), TU58 tape(bootable and useable as system device) and most of the mag tapes. V5 includes a ramdisk called VM that can even be booted assuming you have plenty of ram. An 11/23 with 1meg ram running RT11FB will have plenty of space in VM (about 1900 blocks) for a useful system. I know as I run it on 11/03, 11/23, 11/73 using RL02, RD5x, RX50, RX33, rx02, TU58 and VM:. A useable system fits on any 256k(497 blocks) dual device (tu58 or RX01). A rx50(800blocks) system is fairly roomy. Any hard disk is fast and plenty of room even small 5meg(10,000 blocks) RD50s. The full V5 kit minus .mac files fits in about 4-5000 blocks. Removing the unused drivers and other misc files really cuts this down. A block is 512bytes. I didn't mention but RT-11 is NOT a memory hog and even a PDP-11 with 16kw can run a useful system. Being a low fat OS it is also very fast permitting even slow PDP-11 processors a chance to look good. It's basic commands look just like PC dos. An emulated V4 system should be useable to do PDP-11 program development and run standard monitors. the minimum hardware needed is any PDP11 (even the falcon card!) 16kw ram, mass storage (floppy or hard disk) and at least one DL serial line (console). The boot an even be toggled by hand. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Allison quoted me as having written: > <What's that got to do with it? Diodes are analogue parts - the output > <(current) is a continuous function of the input (voltage), not a > <discrete one (to me the difference between an analogue and a digital > > Yes, but they don't (generally) amplify. I think you may be confusing my remark with Tony's. I remarked that "all circuits are amplifiers" meaning that the general circuit can be modelled as taking an input, applying some sort of gain, and producing an output. A gross oversimplification, but I wasn't talking about the active/passive issue (gain>1 => active, etc.) Tony made a slightly different remark, "Digital circuits are built with analogue parts". Unlike mine, this is not an oversimplification, it is absolutely true. And has nothing to do with amplifiers. You can build a digital circuit element with diodes; they are analogue parts, and they don't amplify. Clear now? > <component). In fact, Allison, you were saying only a few days ago that > <you don't need any amplification to make an analogue _computer_ (with > <which I agree - although some of your examples I wouldn't call > <computers). > > I still hold that amplification is a factor in the equation that an analog > function may contain but it is not required. I never (intensionally) disputed this! > This is an analogue function, take a shot at the equation it solves. I couldn't quite read your diagram, I'm afraid. Was it series capacitor followed by shunt diode? Looks like it refers the input to the lowest value it (the input) ever takes, rather than to ground or a fixed reference. > <For non-electronic digital computers, where do Facit mechanical > <calculators lie? I have one (which is driven by an electric motor but > > Computers, mechanical, fixed program. Roughly what I thought. I wasn't sure whether people would class it as a computer, but I think it is no less of one than a 4-function pocket calculator. [pneumatics] > You've not seen a modern production line that uses air logic. I've worked No. I've seen some of the components in catalogues, though, and wondered if they'd be of use in organ building, though! > on one that was used to produce pharaceuticals that were in flamable bases > (ethanol). There was some fairly complex logic in that system. Working Sounds fun! > with it is like designing with relays. I can imagine. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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RSTS/E v8.0-07 filesystem limitations.

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Is there a limit to how big a RSTS filesystem can be? I'm told 8.0-07 doesn't support RA92s. But the fact that INIT knows what it is tells me otherwise. All I have to do is find the CMP instruction stopping me from formatting this disk and off we go. The question is, is the RSTS filesystem used in 8.0-07 able to handle a drive this size? Is there some filesystem-induced wall I'm about to walk into? -------

28 years, 1 month

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Prototype Apple //c found

by dastar＠wco.com

Of course everything I've dragged home in the last few months simply pales in comparison to the prototype Apple //c I brought home today. I was on my way back to work in the early afternoon and was trying to decide if I should stop at my favorite thrift store on the way which would put me in traffic, or if I should cut across the hills to get back quicker. I thought to myself that there may just be something at the thrift store that would make the trip worth it, so the thoughts of finding something cool won over my need to get back to the office. This is one case where I'm glad I let my irrational urges get the best of me. The first thing I saw when I got to the electronics section was an Apple //c, and I thought to myself, "Hmmm...do I want another //c?" (since I have like 3 already). But when I picked it up I noticed something strange about it. The case was smooth instead of having the normal texture. I flipped it over and noticed there was a small green sticker on the bottom instead of the normal grey one with the Apple //c wording and part numbers, etc. The sticker read "Apple Computer Inc., PCSD MFG, 3087 North First Street, San Jose, CA 95134" then the words "Prototype" and "Test Equipment" with check boxes next to each. "Prototype" was checked off. Of course phrases like "holy shit" went through my head. The label also had a serial number of "P1160" and at the bottom was "WARNING: PROPRIETARY PRODUCT". Now this was too cool for words to describe (<--- isn't that deliciously nerdy?) When I got home I opened it up along with a regular production //c and started comparing the motherboards of the two. There were several minor differences. Some silkscreen lettering was different and there were a couple minor component changes, but nothing significant and for the most part the board layout was identical. I pulled out the power supply on the prototype and the production model which unveiled the following: Prototype Production --------- ---------- TERI MAIN LOGIC MAIN LOGIC 820-0115-0 820-0115-C (c) 1983 APPLE COMPUTER APPLE COMPUTER (c) 1983 Was "TERI" the codename for the Apple //c? A couple other interesting differences: on the prototype, there was a small board with the labeling "Apple Computer Network SKA156-00" in the place near the serial port where on the production model is a simple transistor pack. The "network" board simply has transistors on it. Also, at location C19 on the proto is a 74LS161 whereas on the production there is a 1.8432 Mhz crystal. On the proto, the CHAR GEN EPROM is socketed and the system ROM is an EPROM with a sticker which has "v1.0 5/19 5F85" written on it. Lastly, for the motherboard product number (all Apple components have a product number in the form of xxx-xxxx-x) the proto had 6xx-xxxx-whereas the production has 612-0128-E. Oh yeah, the proto had a spider living in the connector of the power supply. Spiders find the stupidest places to spin their web. What the hell did he expect to come crawling through there!? I was just going to flick him off into the room but if my wife found him a couple days from now she would've fainted, so I did away with the poor little sucker. R.I.P. Here's where you envious types shoot yourself: I paid $2.98 for it. :) I've found some of the best stuff in thrift stores, but this beats all. It will be proudly displayed right next to my prototype Apple //gs at the next Vintage Computer Festival. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/03/98]

28 years, 1 month

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