- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by rcini＠msn.com

Allison: >>the mod was to bring out ras* cas* and MUX* with terminating resistors at one or both ends. These signals went through the EI cable but timing was critical at best. the later EIs derived cas* and mux* off of ras* inside rather than pipe them over. Generally speaking the mod was one where if it was mostly working it MIGHT help, sometimes it made it worse. There was another mod after that called the buffered EI cable...not a good idea either. Fixing the EI was the solution.<< One of the two units that I have has the mod and the other doesn't. The one without came with the buffered EI cable, so what you said makes sense. Thanks for the info; now I can trace the mod on the new schematics. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 7 months

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Datamaster troubles

by rcini＠msn.com

Philip: Thanks for the error codes. I have no manuals for the Datamaster, so I'm flying blind. The code "09" is inverse-blinking, so there is a real problem. I'll try to pull the chips and re-seat them. The machine worked last summer and wasn't used since then, so I can't imagine the chip going like that. Thanks again for the help. I'll let you know what I find. My company has a UK office (Burdale-Holdings, a trade finance company). If I do need a new chip, maybe we could arrange it so that you could drop it off at our London office (if you're near it) and they could send it to me. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 09:05:06 BST From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Datamaster troubles Message-ID: <9706158689.AA868982856(a)compsci.powertech.co.uk> Rich Cini wrote: > Well, I'm reviving my Datamaster. Last year, it worked fine (I at least > could get into Basic). This year, I can't even get it to boot. I have no > manuals for the darned thing, so I have no idea what the numbers on the screen > during the POST mean. I have one reverse-highlighted number: "09" and I'm > assuming that this is a hardware failure code. As promised, I have hunted through my various IBM System/23 (Datamaster) manuals, and found the meanings of the POD (Power-on Diagnostics) error codes. Here is a summary: FF} 00} CPU Failure (!) 01} 02 Failure of first ROS module (Read Only Storage module, i.e. ROM chip) 03 Reserved. If this is highlighted, panic. 04 Failure in bottom 16k of storage, or of storage controller 05 CRT (presumably actually monitor) or DMA failure 06} CRT interface 07} 08 Page registers 09-} ROS failure. There follows a little diagram to tell you which chip 19 } to replace. Yes, the diagram in the manual is made of text, too. ** TOP VIEW OF PLANAR SEEN FROM THE REAR ** _______________________________________________ | ====== ====== <-- NOT FOUND ON | | | 10 | | 11 | <-- SOME EARLY | | =3=40= =3=60= <-- MACHINES | | | | ====== ====== | | | 19 | | 0D | | | =7=60= =1=60= | | *********************** | | =PATCH= ====== * PHYSICAL LOCATION * | | | 18 | | 0C | * OF ROS MODULES * | | =7=40== =1=40= * FOR EACH ERROR CODE * | | *********************** | | ====== ====== | | | 17 | | 0B | -KEY- | | =6=60= =0=60= ====== | | | XX | | | ====== ====== =Y=ZZ= | | | 16 | | 0A | XX=POD ERROR CODE | | =6=40= =0=40= Y=ROS PAGE VALUE | | ZZ=HIGH ORDER BYTE OF | | ====== ====== FIRST ADDRESS IN | | | 15 | | 09 | ROS MODULE. | | =5=60= =0=20= | | ---(CABLE)-------------- | | ====== ====== | ====== | | | | 14 | | 02 | | | 09 | CO-PLANAR | | | =5=40= =0=00= | =0=20= BOARD. | | | | (FOUND ON | | | ====== | ====== SOME EARLY | | | | 13 | | | 10 | MACHINES.) | | | =4=60= | =3=40= | | | | | | | ====== | ====== | | | | 12 | | | 11 | | | | =4=40= | =3=60= | | | ------------------------ | ----------------------------------------------- 1A-} ROS failure on feature card 26 } 27 ROS failure on 2nd printer card 28} ROS failure on feature card 29} 2A-} RAM failure. Table (which I shan't include) of how codes 30 } relate to different sizes of machine. 31 RAM page access failure 32 DMA page register failure 33 Interrupt controller failure 34 Timer interrupt failure 35 Keyboard error. If flashing, keyboard controller. If not flashing, you pressed a key at the wrong moment :-) 36 Printer failure 37 Printer not switched on 38 Diskette attachment failure 39 24 volt rail not reading 24 volts 3A-} belong to add-ons not to the system. I didn't bring the FE } relevant manual pages. General rules for interpretation: Flashing inverse video = fatal error. Non-flashing inverse video = error. Press the Error-reset key and let the machine finish booting. Then run the diagnostics dikette, I suppose. To summarise, it appears you have a dud ROM chip. I imagine the solution is to copy a ROM chip from another Datamaster. If necessary, I can arrange to copy mine, but I don't know off-hand what sort of chips they are. I would also suggest that, unless you too are in England, logistics of getting the chip to you might be hard... Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by manney＠nwohio.com

> Hello there, I run a fileserver that has 2 ST-225 20 meg drives, and 1 NEC > 420 meg IDE drive, this system runs 24/7, and has been running for 2 months > continuous now. My question is what is the life expectancy of these drives, > it is often said that the ST-225 series are not reliable, however they > continue to run strong. also these things run so hot that you can fry an egg > on it! :) Where is the heat localized? The logic board gets hot around the bearing (bushing), but the case itself shouldn't get hot. I'd be worried. I deal with a *lot* of old systems, and I don't see any more dead ST-225's than others. I always keep an ST-225 around, 'cause I *know* it'll go on #2 in the ROM drive table if I can't locate the listing in the BIOS.

28 years, 7 months

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PAM computer, Convergent?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->On the OUTSIDE, in their scrap yard, is where most of the computer ->stuff ends up. I once found a WICAT *and* an EXORCISOR II out ->there-- both filled with water. (Sob!). Heh, I would have used that to get them cheap. Then I'd take them home wash them out throughly and disassembled and dried them well. Generally water is not that damaging. Just done power them wet. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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While the cat's away...

by bw＠booster.bothell.washington.edu

;) Hi all. Due to a major computer disaster here at work I haven't been reading list mail and probably won't for a few more days. So, I'm not ignoring anyone and if anything is really important e-mail me directly (bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu). And, if anyone can tell me why 11 NT servers in a single domain would crash one at a time every 4 minutes and 20 seconds until the whole network is gone - please let me know ;). Bill

28 years, 7 months

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Computer Museums

by manney＠nwohio.com

> What should be on display considering: > 1) space limitation > 2) Mainframes, minis, micros > 3) What would most attract visitors > 4) What would most attract funding :) Three things which have changed radically over the years.are - 01 Power (including speed) - 10 Cost - 11 Display capabilities (on affordable systems, that is) You might want to consider comparing the above parameters system-by-system. Software has become less klunky over the years. Try having an ancient word processor running so people can see, say, the number of steps required to open a file. Don't forget output technology...compare an old daisy wheel to a laser, a superannuated 9 pin to a modern 24 pin, get a thermal printer, and a thinkjet (really raunchy output, but FAST). I'm collecting historically significant micros (such as the C64 -- they're cheap, so everyone got one.) If you can get the dirt on why, for example, CBM shot themselves in the foot, that would be interesting. Why aren't Apples more common, for example?

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 01:18 PM 7/15/97 +0000, you wrote: >simply too small try first: under the width of drive cage, seal the >grille holes on metal sheet and on case cover on right side, seal >that underside holes, all with a good tape. On that XT PSU, how much >airflow blowing out back, weak? Look for a replacement fan that does >better than this el cheapo fans. Try AT type case if you can, they >has bigger, powerful fan. Ok, I checked it out, and it appears that there already is a vinyl plastic glued to the front, with a 5160 sticker on it. I also put a cardboard cover in the empty bay, and this seems to work. the PSU is actually not IBM made, it is an aftermarket brand that has a strong fan in it, stronger than what I find on NEW Yackard Hells! <G> >XT case design especially in cooling department is bit goofy, blamed >by IBM for this ill. :) It continues to amaze me on just WHY whatever IBM made, as flawed as it is, the public jumped on it and supported it... look at winsucks 95..... >> there is good air flow, just they seem to run this >> hot. >More power to air flow is needed, see the tips.. >> I never ran these drives before and have no idea how hot they should >> be. as for power cycling, they get NONE. this system has been running for 2 >> months continous, without any powerdowns since they were installed, so for 2 >> months now, the thermal stability has (hopefully) stayed the same. >> thanx >Hey, no problem! >Jason D. >

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 09:34 AM 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >First off why bother withg the st225s? They are slow (st251s are >faster!) and their reliability is at best ok. FYI: st225s live far I would if I had a ST-251, but I got 4 ST-225's, and 2 of them are in use, and the other 2 are spares. they are slow, but they do work nicely. I also like the sound of old hardware, the new drives you can hardly hear them run, with these, you can hear them a mile away! :) The cooling fan on this machine is as loud as the hard disks, and moves lots of warm air.. >longer if they are cooled. If the fan isn't noisy it isn't moving enough >air past them, seriously! Also if they are in the smae box as all the >other hardware they raise the other components temperature lowering their it is in an XT case, which is huge, and has one slot free for air to move.. and my room is not air condidtioned, but the house is, but the cold never travels in here! <G> >life. Heat is not your friend, this is why computer rooms are air >conditioned an usuialy under 70 degrees F. > >Allison > >

28 years, 7 months

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New surplus outlet!

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

Denizens of the Bay Area, check this out! HMR Recycling (www.hmr-usa.com), when I had the opportunity to visit, reminded me greatly of one of the Surplus Warehouses of Olde. Reasonable prices, huge assortment to choose from, and 100,000 sq. feet of warehouse to peruse! Example: Nearly new-looking Tektronix 7844 dual-beam O-scope, with a pair each of 7B92A timebase and 7A26 vertical plugins, with cart: $400. Other examples: Emulex P3000 print server, $20. DEC RRD42 SCSI CD-ROM drive, $20. Exabyte EXB-8200 2.3 gig 8mm tape drive, $125. One of my finds there was a pair of DEC storage expansion cabinets at $45 each (bargained down from $50 since I bought both of them). They each contained a pair of DEC RZ57 drives (made by Micropolis, 1.0 gigs each, all SCSI). Heck of a deal! They get new stuff in literally every day. I went there twice on different days, and found some neat deals both times. 08:00-16:30, Monday-Friday only, minimum purchase $20.00, and you need to sign the visitor log and wear a visitor badge while looking around. Other than that, enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>>>jpero... Sorry if this is long but it is important to users of classic machines. <I gently disagree with this assertion that ST251 series is good than <ST225 series. I got too many dead ST251 series compared to ST225's <due to weaker structral design, pushed design by driving steppers too <hard byond 40ms average and not as rugged as ST225's. Can't say I disagree. You however confused my assertion of better performace in terms of access times, with reliability. Its faster and more storage for less power and heat than two st225s. I never said it was more reliable. My expereince is that the st251 is less tolerrent of heat but if cooled it seems to do as well as most st225s (n=10k+). An experience with a customer in Austrailia using both 225s and 251s proved it. FYI neither like heat! <goal set by designers. If one wants faster seeking time, go voice <coil! I am dreaming wishing that ST251 drive was fitted with voice <coil instead of stepper and better motor design...sigh. true, but there are voice coil dries out there that do not hold up well too. It's a design trade made by some companies thinking the mechanics will never outlive the electronics. Much of it is process quality and handling. Most bad drives I've seen were from warm enviornments or dropped in their life. <reliably. Whole problem was that design of this ST251 spindle motor <is ill-designed to begin with in my opinion: Trying to fit all the <coils and one bearing INSIDE that spindle results in weak axle that <gets bent easily due to this design and the bearings failure rate on <this one is high too. It has a problem with gyroscopc precession, this makes it very susceptable to small shocks when running. The bearing does not like sideloads either. I agree it could have been better thought out. generally going to the smaller 3.5" was actaully an improvement in reliability for disks as it took less power to spin it and also move the heads. With less mass in the media the motors, bearings and all could be more rigid for it's size. The lower heat made bearing life better and also helped dimesional stability. < Recently I pulled this ST225 out of dumpter and fixed up the XT with < this hd and LLF'ed it. Gave whole thing to poor guy to use vax at < college. Still works. Most 225s were not fails, just retired due to small space available. FYI you get better results if the disk is LLF'd in situ and well warmed up. I must have 6 st225s of them all good and solid. I use them but, when I need speed I try to use others (quantum q540 30mb is nice!). <I tore down all kinds of drives from old and 3 years old types for <post-failure analysis which gave pretty good info for me. Same here, mostly limited to: St506, st412, st225, st251, micropolus1325 and quantum Q540, Q2190s and a few other dec disks. I have an st238 that refuses to die! <Snip! Tales of positive things about cooling... <Actually, all drives old and new benefits from cooling and boards <likes the flowing cooling air. Very true, vacuuming the vents from time to time also is a good thing. The big advantage of the newer drives is they consume less power therfore produce less damaging heat enhancing reliability. <We have no choice as many do not have AC so they ran in warm air <but if you are careful, enough fans to make hurriance out of it and <put a fan or two on monitor as well. My 17" needs two otherwise the <HOT transistor will pop again. ARRGgghhh. Tell me! I run microvaxen, Q-bus PDP-11s and s100 systems and 20 years of experince (and reliability studies) has taught me 90F is a hard ceiling and to shutdown with fans running if it gets hotter. I know this from my days at DEC in the mill when my office system (11/23) was fried by an AC failure, the area hit 98f and the 11 went down for the count. I've been pulling the plug regularly this year as we've had a lot of warm here in MA. ;-) Even without AC, every effort to remove heat is good! Even if you can't lower the ambient, keeping the guts closer to it will help greatly. My s100 crate has two 5" 120cfm fans pushing air up through the cage and it runs stone cold. The original layout had an 80cfm fan in the PS section pulling the air around and the boards ran HOT. It makes a racket but compared the the 8" drive and considering it's 20 years old... it still runs. Even my ba123 microvax, I replaced the fans to blow up as someone put them in backwards for less noise. You fight convection and lose cooling efficiencty. Since I have few spares I prefer to keep it going and tolerate a slight increase in noise. This is something to watch for on older systems where things may have been replaced but with the wrong (underrated) items. One last item. MAKE BACKUPS OF EVERYTHING. make duplicate backups and test the backups for integrity. Disks fail, and the cheapest insurance is a boot and backup package that works when you replace/repair the offending drive. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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TRS-80 Model I EI question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I'm trying to track-down a mod that Tandy on the Expansion Interface. On o <of my early EIs (SN# 000352), there was a 6-pin DIN modification, which <someone at one time told me was to correct some erratic signal problems. the mod was to bring out ras* cas* and MUX* with terminating resistors at one or both ends. These signals went through the EI cable but timing was critical at best. the later EIs derived cas* and mux* off of ras* inside rather than pipe them over. Generally speaking the mod was one where if it was mostly working it MIGHT help, sometimes it made it worse. There was another mod after that called the buffered EI cable...not a good idea either. Fixing the EI was the solution. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 02:45 PM 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote: > >One last item. MAKE BACKUPS OF EVERYTHING. make duplicate backups and test >the backups for integrity. Disks fail, and the cheapest insurance is a boot >and backup package that works when you replace/repair the offending drive. > > >Allison > This is why I like the 20 and 40 meg drives, I can back up key elements of the OS and configs, and restore them easily. as for 3.5 being more reliable, they are not, as I bought a Conner CFS-850A 850 meg, and it worked nicely for a year, then one day I am greeted with this error: BOOT DISK FAILURE, SYSTEM HALTED. it suffered a head crash, it would spin up normally, and when the controller tested the head actuator upon startup, there was a time when the head would seek to a location on the disk, and GRIND to a halt. the drive never worked again... I lost 700 megs of stuff, half unreplaceable (my fault, but I have no tape drive). fortunately the drive did have a 3 year warrenty, and a replacement was shipped, a 1.2 gig seagate ST-31276A. and here is another question: Is this going to last me more than a year? If Seagate made good drives in the past, will this new one live up to this, or is this drive chock full of corner cutting?

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by manney＠nwohio.com

> Most 225s were not fails, just retired due to small space available. FYI > you get better results if the disk is LLF'd in situ and well warmed up. That's doubly true for RLL encoded ST-506/412 drives. These drives should be LLF'd from time to time anyway. Most HD controllers have a built-in LLF routine which you can access via DEBUG.

28 years, 7 months

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Computer Museums

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> What should be on display considering: > 1) space limitation > 2) Mainframes, minis, micros > 3) What would most attract visitors > 4) What would most attract funding :) I'm afraid number 3 and number 4 will turn you into The Boston Computer Museum. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 7 months

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Some Commie questions

by manney＠nwohio.com

C64 Porer supplies... I have a box full of C64 P/S's ...I sell them for $18 plus S/H, 60 day warranty. Got cables and manuals and lotsa software, too. I don't have any 128's. Anyone wanna get rid of one cheap? Trade a slightly used Panasonic HHP for one :> > >The next question would be, is it worth trying to repair a C64's power > >supply? I got two of them yesterday, both powersupplies are dead. It > >looks like the 5V line is shorted to ground. I did get a copy of the Old & > > if it is potted, NOPE. some are unpotted and can be fixed. > > >New style users manuals, and a copy of "Troubleshooting and Repairing your > >Commodore 64" yesterday (I love Powells Technical Books!) so I've got some > >documentation. It's been too many years since I worked as an Electrician, > >so my skill level is pretty low (wasn't very high to begin with, which is > >why I switched to computers). > > > > I have these manuals too and I must say that it leaves no tern left unstoned. >

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-15 13:32:57 EDT, you write: << IMHO the ST-4096 FH 80 MG was the most reliable of this era. I spent over 600.00 for this drive new and used it for more than 20 years, and ended up selling it to a business for 50.00 to replace their dead st-251. >> hmm, my experience is just the opposite with this drive. I had 6 out 7 fail in less than 6 months back in 1990. The 4096 was just hideous. Kelly

28 years, 7 months

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PC-jr PSU (again!)

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

I dug out the PC-jr Techref (in order to look up details on the joystick), and I also looked at the PSU diagrams (page B-23 in my edition). We had a thread on this about a month ago, mainly about the external transformer unit which I don't have. Now, the input connector is a 3-pin thing. The centre pin is connected to shield ground, and then via L3 and L4 on the system board to logic ground. It's thus a DC connection to the system ground. The outside 2 pins go through a filter to the AC terminals of a bridge rectifier (CR7 - CR10) and the output of this goes (via the power switch) to a 1500uF 25V capacitor (C13). The -ve side of this capacitor is also connected to system ground. Thus, IMHO it makes no sense at all for the transformer to be centre-tapped with the tap going to pin 2 on the connector. If it was, the winding would be paritially shorted out by the diodes in the bridge rectifier, which would cause a lot of damage. Also, since C13 is only rated at 25V, the maximum input rms voltage is 25/sqrt(2) volts, which is a lot less than 34V. I therefore still believe that it's a plain 17V transformer between the 2 outer pins on the connector. Incidentally, the +12V output comes from a standard linear regulator, the +5V output from a switching regulator (Z2 is the control IC, Q2 the chopper, and L1 the switching inductor). The -12V output is supplied by a secondary winding on L1, which is then rectifier and smoothed. It's always possible that IBM used several versions of the PSU card, but the schematic in my Techref seems to agree with the one in my machine. -tony

28 years, 7 months

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IBM 5161??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> Haven't found a IBM cassette recorder either but I did pick up an IBM > joystick (had IBM logo on it and the word "Joystick") plus it had a funky > square connector which looked like it goes to the PCjr. I've dug out the PC-jr Techref, and there's some info in it on the joystick.

28 years, 7 months

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IBM 5161??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> (MS-DOS machines) since about 1983 and I have yet to see one. Another > thing I've been looking for without success is an IBM Cassette recorder > for the IBM PC cassette interface. I've heard they really do exist. Now that's something I've never seen. One interesting point is that the pinout of the cassette socket on the PC (although not on the PC-jr) is the same as that on a Tandy Model 1/3/4/Coco/etc It is rumoured that IBM intended you to go down to the local Radio Shack and buy one of their recorders + cable. -tony >

28 years, 7 months

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antique computer blowout (fwd)

by kjaeros＠u.washington.edu

Somebody in the Berkeley area might want to answer this call to duty.. I'd be thrilled to get the Sun 1 clone, but it'd cost several hundred dollars to ship up here. ok -r ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 15 Jul 1997 07:39:46 GMT From: Paul Leondis <leondis(a)slip.net> Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.workstation Subject: antique computer blowout I'm looking to get rid of some stuff, let me know what you think: I've got a huge amount of old S-100 bus stuff, almost all of it with technical manuals and software on diskette, that was working the last i knew. Most is Godbout stuff, some Morrow, some Dual, etc. Lots of 8" floppy drives and diskettes. I have most of the processor boards that were released by Godbout, including 8088, 8086, Z80, 8080, 68000, and i even have some of the National Semiconductor 32000 series cpus on S-100 cards. I have all the stuff like CP/M 68K with the associated assemblers and linkers etc. I also have a complete working [?] Sun I clone: yes, that's right, the first SUN design was public domain (did you know that?? At least that's the way i understand it...) and a company called Forward Technology made clones of that design. It has a 68K cpu running in a multibus one chassis, and i have lots of peripherals for it, including 9-track tape drive and 1/4" tape drives and disk controllers for several interfaces. I've got all the relevent software, inc. V7 unix and a mess of compilers. I have the (at the time) very high res monochrome monitors that went with the system. It's a real wrench for me to let go of this stuff, if you were in this field 10 or 15 years ago you know what i paid for some of the stuff. But i'm tired of hoarding it all. So, i will take the best offer i can get for all of the stuff. My reserve bid is $0, that is i will give it away if that is the best offer. I will probably be most moved by someone that may actually get some pleasure out of the stuff and esp. someone that would want to take the whole lot. There is a free city dump day coming up in my part of town on July 19th, so i'd like to settle the stuff by then so i can dispose of whatever is left at that time. Paul Leondis leondis(a)slip.net 510-649-0993 phone Berkeley, CA

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by thedm＠sunflower.com

IMHO the ST-4096 FH 80 MG was the most reliable of this era. I spent over 600.00 for this drive new and used it for more than 20 years, and ended up selling it to a business for 50.00 to replace their dead st-251. ---------- > From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers > Date: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 7:59 AM > > Allison, > > I gently disagree with this assertion that ST251 series is good than > ST225 series. I got too many dead ST251 series compared to ST225's > due to weaker structral design, pushed design by driving steppers too > hard byond 40ms average and not as rugged as ST225's. > I noticed the relationship between higher stepping rate and > terrible high failure rate on many hard drives such as ST251's, > Miniscribes and early 40meg western digital drives compared to > very slow stepping rate on most drives did last long time byond its > goal set by designers. If one wants faster seeking time, go voice > coil! I am dreaming wishing that ST251 drive was fitted with voice > coil instead of stepper and better motor design...sigh. > > Those ST225, ST250 are really best consumer's drives and ST251 series > might be a mistake at cutting corners well as ST277, ST296 are same > design. > > I wished that segate designed ST251 case > more rugged and used internal spindle motor with bearings on outside > and one screw on top of cover to stablize the motor from top. Then > this ST251's would be possible to be expanded to 100 or 120 size > reliably. Whole problem was that design of this ST251 spindle motor > is ill-designed to begin with in my opinion: Trying to fit all the > coils and one bearing INSIDE that spindle results in weak axle that > gets bent easily due to this design and the bearings failure rate on > this one is high too. > > Recently I pulled this ST225 out of dumpter and fixed > up the XT with this hd and LLF'ed it. Gave whole thing to poor guy > to use vax at college. Still works. > > I tore down all kinds of drives from old and 3 years old types for > post-failure analysis which gave pretty good info for me. > > > ->X-Sender: cerebral(a)michianatoday.com > Snip! > > > First off why bother withg the st225s? They are slow (st251s are > Snip! Tales of positive things about cooling... > > If the fan isn't noisy it isn't moving enough > > air past them, seriously! > Actually, all drives old and new benefits from cooling and boards > likes the flowing cooling air. > > > Also if they are in the smae box as all the > > other hardware they raise the other components temperature lowering their > > life. Heat is not your friend, this is why computer rooms are air > > conditioned an usuialy under 70 degrees F. > We have no choice as many does not have AC so they ran in warm air > but if you are careful, enough fans to make hurriance out of it and > put a fan or two on monitor as well. My 17" needs two otherwise the > HOT transistor will pop again. ARRGgghhh. > > > Allison >

28 years, 7 months

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DEC machine?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<PC500 <RCD31 < <The PC500 seems to be a display with a 5.25 inch floppy drive and some <electronics. It is mounted on top of the RCD31 unit which is in a pizza <box style case. Is this some sort of PC clone or maybe a DecMate? It's called a Vaxmate. what it is is a PC/AT clone(sorta) with a 8mhz 286 and most had 2meg of ram, wd1003 HD controller, an st225(rd31) or st251(rd32) and a Lance eithernet interface. The floppy is RX33 (1.2mb). These are nice machines and were aimed at running as a diskless workstation to vaxen on eithenet using PCSA and later Pathworks networking. It will run dos3.3 and 5.0 that I know of. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Typo was intended to be 10, but it was still undauntingly reliable. ---------- > From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers > Date: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 8:34 AM > > > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:07:09 -0500 > > Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > > From: "Bill Girnius" <thedm(a)sunflower.com> > > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > Subject: Re: What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers > > X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > > IMHO the ST-4096 FH 80 MG was the most reliable of this era. I spent over > > 600.00 for this drive new and used it for more than 20 years, and ended up > > selling it to a business for 50.00 to replace their dead st-251. > > Had to ask! Are you kidding? :) None 5.25" hds came out til after > '82 when lot of hds bigger than 8" was king. !!!! 20 yr old > ST4096? Impossible! More like 8 or 9 years. > > Seagate started on this design after 1986. Is this one of yours > that only have one board on bottom with only platter cover painted > black? That is last generation of this design which is finally > reliable. Earlier ones had teething problem of all kinds, no > kidding. All the way back to early first linear voice coil of ST4025 > between 1985 through '88. I pick them up all the time are almost > always dead due to bearing failures. These drives are best left > running horizontal right side up. > > Jason D.

28 years, 7 months

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DEC machine?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> The PC500 seems to be a display with a 5.25 inch floppy drive and some > electronics. It is mounted on top of the RCD31 unit which is in a pizza > box style case. Is this some sort of PC clone or maybe a DecMate? No, I suspect it's a VAXmate. The VAXmate is a 286 PC clone with some special DECness (Ethernet, included software to do DECnet). Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu PS: Rumor has it that the VAXstation 2000 folks were really pissed that the name 'VAXmate' was already taken...

28 years, 7 months

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ActionMax

by dastar＠crl.com

Picked up an ActionMax system from the thrift store today. I got it nearly complete, which is rare. Only missing the power supply (common 9V) and the VCR cable. This is a game that you hook to your VCR. It has a light gun and some sort of red either sensor or light (don't know yet). It came with a fighter combat VCR tape that you play in the VCR and I assume you use the gun to shoot at stuff on the screen. I'm sure someone else knows more about it than me. I haven't hooked it up yet. But I won't be able to do anything with it until I get the VCR cable. Anyone know how to rig one up? I also finally found a C16 but it has a broken key in the upper row :( These things apparently aren't too common in these parts as this is the first one I've ever seen. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 7 months

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DEC machine?

by dbetz＠xlisper.mv.com

Does anyone know what the following Digital part numbers refer to? PC500 RCD31 The PC500 seems to be a display with a 5.25 inch floppy drive and some electronics. It is mounted on top of the RCD31 unit which is in a pizza box style case. Is this some sort of PC clone or maybe a DecMate? -- David Betz dbetz(a)xlisper.mv.com DavidBetz(a)aol.com (603) 472-2389

28 years, 7 months

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Altair Construction Manual

by rcini＠msn.com

Glenn: Thanks for the encouragement. It seems that at one time, one of us did try to contact TA to no avail. Should we try again?? I'd need to get the contact info >from the gent that tried it the first time, and I'll give it a second go-around. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking ---------- From: Glenn Roberts Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 10:23 AM To: Richard A. Cini, Jr. Cc: bcw(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Altair Construction Manual outstanding! i continue to applaud your efforts. i would think that all we need to proceed is a trail of evidence showing a "reasonable effort" to receive permission in this area. this can be a precedent-setting effort for publication of all kinds of useful historical information that might otherwise be lost forever. thanks again for blazing the trail! - glenn At 02:04 AM 7/13/97 UT, you wrote: >To all Altair fans... > > Well, my more-than-kind individual has provided me with the first of three >installments of the original Altair construction manual. He scanned all 102 >pages of the doc and made it into a PDF document -- almost 7mb in size. He is >also providing me with manuals for "the 88-4K, 88-ACR, and other stuff." I'm >not too familiar with all of the available options since the Altair was really >before my time, but it looks like the 4k memory board and other stuff. > > I'm not going to U/L the docs yet, first for size reasons, and second, until >we determine if we should try to contact Triumph-Adler... > >On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Jim Willing wrote: >>>So, it can be assumed that TA [Triumph-Adler of Germany] now >>owns all of >the rights to things MITS/Altair. I've tried to contact them >>on occasion on >related matters and have gotten no response of any >>kind to date. > >Anybody have any thoughts? >------------------------ >Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin Charter Member (6) > - MCPS Windows 95/Networking > > > +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts(a)mitre.org

28 years, 7 months

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book review

by enrico＠Brighton-UK.com

If you like the History of Personal Computers you might like to read my review of the Stan Veit book I just received from him. You will find it at: <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi/news/news73.htm> I know that the book has been published in 1993 but some of you (like me) might not have been aware of it till now. Stan has seen all the personal computer revolution from the inside as he opened the second computer store in the USA and the first on the East Coast (New York). Please forgive my spelling mistakes.... Thanks enrico -- ================================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> ================================================================ visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>

28 years, 7 months

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PAM computer, Convergent?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> wash them out throughly and disassembled and dried them well. Generally <> water is not that damaging. Just don't power them wet. < <I would remove anything high-voltage (front end of the power supply) and <BAKE them for quite some time (a day is nice). Water has a way of getting <into windings and comprimising the insulation (remember, in a transformer <the insulation is _thin_ - often paper and painted on varnish). This is a good point for the masses. I've done enough design(20+ years) so transformer design and the like are familiar to me. But then again I've cleaned boards in the dishwasher! Works great too. Also while In has I made a business of salvaging and repair marine gear that had been dunked in salt water which is very nasty to electronics. Part of the repair process was to very throughly wash out the unit in fresh water as no salt could be left (it's very hydroscopic) then repairing any damage if any. I've had marine equipment work better for this due to residual salt and dust accumulated being cleaned out! A good temp to bake at is just under 200f, it's slow but works and most plastics and semis are ok at this temp! Do monitor it though. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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Classic Video Games

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Sounds like Mattel Electronic Football. My friends and I were the reason they stopped letting us take to school! damn...that was ages ago. ---------- > From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Classic Video Games > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 5:34 PM > > One comment, > > Is the display looks like it was using same LED display, "hair thin" > segments under the plastic lens? > > Jason D. > > Uncle Roger, etc: > > > > In regard to your post about the old hand held football game... I > > certainly do remember that game. There were actually a couple of different > > companies or stores that sold them. Radio Shack did have one, but I > > believe it was the SAME one that was manufactured by Coleco, or a similar > > company. I know up until a few years ago I had one... I'll have to look > > around. Just the other day, I was in a thrift store in Nebraska City, NE > > and they had a pile of 'old' handhelds. I didn't have time to look through > > it close, though.... but I'm darn sure they did have a football game or > > two though. I'll go back and check it out for you, though. Oh, while were > > on the subject of old football games.... how about those darned magnetic > > full-field table football games they used to make?? Do they still exist? > > > > Until next time, > > > > CORD > > > > //*=====================================================================++ > > || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || > > || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || > > || Classic computer software and hardware collector || > > || Autograph collector || > > ++=====================================================================*// > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > > > > > At 02:03 PM 7/11/97 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Depends on your definition of "videogame" (coin-operated, home unit, > > > computer, commercial, etc.) One of these should fit what you're looking for: > > > > > > When I was in high school, there was a precursor to the Lynx/Gameboy/etc. > > > crowd that was a football game. There were little red LED's(?) to represent > > > players, and you had up, down, and run buttons to control the quarter back. > > > It was very simplistic; you basically just ran the quarterback until you got > > > a touchdown (but I think you could do a fieldgoal?) Anyway, I think Radio > > > Shack sold one, but it may have been someone else. > > > > > > Anyone else remember this? Know what it was called? Got one you'd part with? > > > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > > > > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > > > sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." > > > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > > > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > > > > > > > > > > > >

28 years, 7 months

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Datamaster troubles

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Rich Cini wrote: > Well, I'm reviving my Datamaster. Last year, it worked fine (I at least > could get into Basic). This year, I can't even get it to boot. I have no > manuals for the darned thing, so I have no idea what the numbers on the screen > during the POST mean. I have one reverse-highlighted number: "09" and I'm > assuming that this is a hardware failure code. As promised, I have hunted through my various IBM System/23 (Datamaster) manuals, and found the meanings of the POD (Power-on Diagnostics) error codes. Here is a summary: FF} 00} CPU Failure (!) 01} 02 Failure of first ROS module (Read Only Storage module, i.e. ROM chip) 03 Reserved. If this is highlighted, panic. 04 Failure in bottom 16k of storage, or of storage controller 05 CRT (presumably actually monitor) or DMA failure 06} CRT interface 07} 08 Page registers 09-} ROS failure. There follows a little diagram to tell you which chip 19 } to replace. Yes, the diagram in the manual is made of text, too. ** TOP VIEW OF PLANAR SEEN FROM THE REAR ** _______________________________________________ | ====== ====== <-- NOT FOUND ON | | | 10 | | 11 | <-- SOME EARLY | | =3=40= =3=60= <-- MACHINES | | | | ====== ====== | | | 19 | | 0D | | | =7=60= =1=60= | | *********************** | | =PATCH= ====== * PHYSICAL LOCATION * | | | 18 | | 0C | * OF ROS MODULES * | | =7=40== =1=40= * FOR EACH ERROR CODE * | | *********************** | | ====== ====== | | | 17 | | 0B | -KEY- | | =6=60= =0=60= ====== | | | XX | | | ====== ====== =Y=ZZ= | | | 16 | | 0A | XX=POD ERROR CODE | | =6=40= =0=40= Y=ROS PAGE VALUE | | ZZ=HIGH ORDER BYTE OF | | ====== ====== FIRST ADDRESS IN | | | 15 | | 09 | ROS MODULE. | | =5=60= =0=20= | | ---(CABLE)-------------- | | ====== ====== | ====== | | | | 14 | | 02 | | | 09 | CO-PLANAR | | | =5=40= =0=00= | =0=20= BOARD. | | | | (FOUND ON | | | ====== | ====== SOME EARLY | | | | 13 | | | 10 | MACHINES.) | | | =4=60= | =3=40= | | | | | | | ====== | ====== | | | | 12 | | | 11 | | | | =4=40= | =3=60= | | | ------------------------ | ----------------------------------------------- 1A-} ROS failure on feature card 26 } 27 ROS failure on 2nd printer card 28} ROS failure on feature card 29} 2A-} RAM failure. Table (which I shan't include) of how codes 30 } relate to different sizes of machine. 31 RAM page access failure 32 DMA page register failure 33 Interrupt controller failure 34 Timer interrupt failure 35 Keyboard error. If flashing, keyboard controller. If not flashing, you pressed a key at the wrong moment :-) 36 Printer failure 37 Printer not switched on 38 Diskette attachment failure 39 24 volt rail not reading 24 volts 3A-} belong to add-ons not to the system. I didn't bring the FE } relevant manual pages. General rules for interpretation: Flashing inverse video = fatal error. Non-flashing inverse video = error. Press the Error-reset key and let the machine finish booting. Then run the diagnostics dikette, I suppose. To summarise, it appears you have a dud ROM chip. I imagine the solution is to copy a ROM chip from another Datamaster. If necessary, I can arrange to copy mine, but I don't know off-hand what sort of chips they are. I would also suggest that, unless you too are in England, logistics of getting the chip to you might be hard... Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk

28 years, 7 months

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Some Commie questions

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >The C=128 does not need any kind of bootfloppy, it will start up in C=128 mode. if you type GO64, it reverts to a C=64 kernal.< You can also hold down the Commodore key (looks like "C=" in the lower lefthand corner) while you turn it on, and it will come up in 64 mode. > the 128 has RF output accessable from the RCA jack, a 5 pin DIN video connector that provides composite, or seperated video plus sound.< The 128 has an 8-pin DIN connector, as do the later 64s. A 5-pin cable will work, but for the best possible separated composite picture, an 8-pin cable will do better. >also there is a RGB 9 pin DSUB connector so you can use ANY CGA monitor for 80 col. for the 1702, you need a video cable(looks like you have this), and use the separated mode for sharper graphics.< The 1702 is composite only. Later Commodore monitors, like the 1902, were composite/RGB switchable. However, pin 7 of the 9-pin 128 video connector puts out a monochrome composite signal, which (with your own hacked cable) allows you to view the 128's 80-column signal (normally viewable only with an RGB monitor) on a composite monitor like the 1702. >Nope. unless you want to run CPM< Or GEOS, which is kinda like Windows. Some of the more advanced Commodore software (like the fax program) runs under GEOS. >>The next question would be, is it worth trying to repair a C64's power supply? I got two of them yesterday, both powersupplies are dead. It looks like the 5V line is shorted to ground. << >if it is potted, NOPE. some are unpotted and can be fixed.< The 64 power supply isn't going to do him much good on a 128; the power supplies have different connectors, and the 64 supplies aren't as strong as the 128 supplies. As to potted supplies, I have fixed one or two; some have fuses up close to the top of the gunk, and it is possible to scrape away enough of the gunk on each end to bypass the fuse if that is the problem. But as to whether it is worth the effort, I'd agree-- usually it isn't. I'm not sure what they pot it with, but starships could use it for deflector shields! Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 7 months

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C16

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by Sam: >I also finally found a C16 but it has a broken key in the upper row :( These things apparently aren't too common in these parts as this is the first one I've ever seen.< If the unit powers up, you're ahead of the game. The video chip, called the TED, is weak in those units, and probably 1 our of every two you'll find has a bad TED chip. By the way, the same TED is in the Plus/4, so if need by the chip can be swapped from unit to the other. All those C16s with bad TED chips means there are more than a few non-working units out there that could be a part donor for your keyboard. If fact, if you can't search around and find, drop me a note and I'm sure I can. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 7 months

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IEEE 488

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message from: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)crl.com> >Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Commodore PET's used IEEE-488 for disk drives, as well as lab stuff. I'm pretty sure I've got an IEEE-488 interface for the VIC-20 around somewhere. < Yep. Commodore used it on the full PET/CBM line for disk drives, printers, and whatever else you wanted to attach. That was one reason PETs were fairly popular in labs in those days-- easy to plug in test equipment. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

Opps, My name is TJ Plajer, and recently reinstalled the mailer and forgot to add a space for some reason..... <G> I did follow your tips, and the drives are in a XT case and there are no bezels for the drives. there is good air flow, just they seem to run this hot. I never ran these drives before and have no idea how hot they should be. as for power cycling, they get NONE. this system has been running for 2 months continous, without any powerdowns since they were installed, so for 2 months now, the thermal stability has (hopefully) stayed the same. thanx

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->X-Sender: cerebral(a)michianatoday.com ->Hello there, I run a fileserver that has 2 ST-225 20 meg drives, and 1 ->420 meg IDE drive, this system runs 24/7, and has been running for 2 mo ->continuous now. My question is what is the life expectancy of these dri ->it is often said that the ST-225 series are not reliable, however they ->continue to run strong. also these things run so hot that you can fry a First off why bother withg the st225s? They are slow (st251s are faster!) and their reliability is at best ok. FYI: st225s live far longer if they are cooled. If the fan isn't noisy it isn't moving enough air past them, seriously! Also if they are in the smae box as all the other hardware they raise the other components temperature lowering their life. Heat is not your friend, this is why computer rooms are air conditioned an usuialy under 70 degrees F. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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Computer Scrapyards (was: PAM computer, Convergent?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->I have seen many gems from DEC, mostly mid-1970s PDP-11s and early VAXe ->I have yet to see any 12, 18, or 36 bit stuff from them, however. The o there is a reason... PDP-8s were the most prolific and the production nubers were in teh low tens of thousands and many still serve. The 18bit stuff were few to start with and hard as hell to expand so they faded away. the 36bit stuff were also few but interesting. Still many made it to the bone yard for lack of takers years back. Some of the less common machines like the PDP/LINK-12s and PDP-15s were only made in the thousands. PDP-11/23s are however like flies but, one complete with software (or better diags) and clean are scarce. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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Some Commie questions

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 02:11 PM 7/13/97 -0800, you wrote: >My main question is on the C= 128, along with all the other stuff I picked >up, I got a Commodore 1702 monitor, and a couple 1541 drives. I've got the >drive attached, and the monitor hooked up via a RF cable (I guess that's >what it's called) through the front connection (This works for the Amiga >500 I also got yesterday). Anyway, I power the thing on, it "buzzes" the >drive like it's expecting to find something, and I don't get anything on >the display. The C=128 does not need any kind of bootfloppy, it will start up in C=128 mode. if you type GO64, it reverts to a C=64 kernal. and if you want to run CPM, then you need a CPM boot disk, however it is not required to run the machine. this is what I liked about the 128, 3 mahcines in 1! :) for your monitor, the 128 has RF output accessable from the RCA jack, a 5 pin DIN video connector that provides composite, or seperated video plus sound. also there is a RGB 9 pin DSUB connector so you can use ANY CGA monitor for 80 col. for the 1702, you need a video cable(looks like you have this), and use the separated mode for sharper graphics. the buzzing you hear is because you have connected the video out RCA jack to the audio in. You should have 5 phono plugs on the end of the video cable, and a din plug on the other. just experament with all the plugs till it works. the video plug colors usually (but not always) YELLOW - sound RED Video chroma WHITE video Luminace BLACK SOUND GRAY Composite video each manufacturer used different color chemes, and this might be wrong for other cables than mine. also the 1702 has a front panel switch that has 3 positions: 1- monochrome this just makes everything green used for composite video 2- Composite video this is just the standard video in, you can hook your VCR to it for a nice sharp TV!! 3- seperated - this uses seperate lines to feed the video, and this has the best quality >I remember that the C64's like the VIC-20 would drop you at the prompt even >if you had nothing attached, and didn't need any kind of boot floppies. Do >I need some kind of boot disk for this beast? Nope. unless you want to run CPM >I gather a CGA monitor will work, so I guess I should dig out one of the >old Mono-CGA monitors I've got in storage. shore will. > >The next question would be, is it worth trying to repair a C64's power >supply? I got two of them yesterday, both powersupplies are dead. It >looks like the 5V line is shorted to ground. I did get a copy of the Old & if it is potted, NOPE. some are unpotted and can be fixed. >New style users manuals, and a copy of "Troubleshooting and Repairing your >Commodore 64" yesterday (I love Powells Technical Books!) so I've got some >documentation. It's been too many years since I worked as an Electrician, >so my skill level is pretty low (wasn't very high to begin with, which is >why I switched to computers). > I have these manuals too and I must say that it leaves no tern left unstoned.

28 years, 7 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 113

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Some Commie questions > My main question is on the C= 128, along with all the other stuff I picked > up, I got a Commodore 1702 monitor (good composite/Split Composite monitor, ususally JVC or Toshiba Guts) > and a couple 1541 drives. I've got the > drive attached, and the monitor hooked up via a RF cable (I guess that's > what it's called) >through the front connection (This works for the Amiga 500 I also got yesterday). The jack on the front is RF output. > Anyway, I power the thing on, it "buzzes" the drive like it's expecting to find something, > and I don't get anything on the display. When a 128 boots up it will attempt to 'boot' whatever disk is in the drive. A boot disk isn't necessary unless you want to use the CP/M mode of the 128. To boot the 128 into 64 mode hold down the Commodore ket as you turn it on, release and you will be rewarded with a 64 bluescreen. Otherwise it will boot into 128 mode, either 40 or 80 columns depending how you have the 'columns' key locked. > I remember that the C64's like the VIC-20 would drop you at the prompt even > if you had nothing attached, and didn't need any kind of boot floppies. Do > I need some kind of boot disk for this beast? Only for CP/M.. It's a good version too! > I gather a CGA monitor will work, so I guess I should dig out one of the > old Mono-CGA monitors I've got in storage. Only in 80 column mode, the 128 has an RGBI port for that. If you have no color RGBI monitors you can always fasion a composite monochome cable by connecting to pin 7 (monochrome) and pin 1 or 2 (ground) to an RCA plug, that pin was designed for monochome composite output. The best (low cost) configuration is to have the 128 hooked up to the 1702, with the 40 column split/composite & audio plugged into the back and the monochrome 80 columns in the front. The quality of video using a proper (split composite) video cable in the back of the 1702 is excellent, I highly recommend it! > The next question would be, is it worth trying to repair a C64's power > supply? No. Unless you like chipping away Epoxy resin. > I got two of them yesterday, both powersupplies are dead. It > looks like the 5V line is shorted to ground. I did get a copy of the Old & > New style users manuals, and a copy of "Troubleshooting and Repairing your > Commodore 64" yesterday (I love Powells Technical Books!) so I've got some > documentation. It's been too many years since I worked as an Electrician, > so my skill level is pretty low (wasn't very high to begin with, which is > why I switched to computers). > Then there is the Amiga 500. About a month ago, I'd picked up a copy of > "Bards Tale" for the Amiga, so I know it works. Problem is I don't have a > copy of the two floppies that came with the computer originally (also got > the manual for this at Powells). I think I've got the Kickstart 1.2 ROMs > (it has a 1.2 on the screen when asking for the Workbench disk). That is Kickstart 1.2 allright. Kickstart 1.3 or later would be better because they have hard drive autoboot coding and 2.0+ is more compatible with recent Amiga software. I have the 1.2 Workbench and Extras Disk around here somewhere... :) > Where can > I get the disks? I don't suppose it's like the Apple IIgs software that > you can now download. The hard part would be getting it on the right format of floppy... > The second Amiga question would be, is it possible to hook up Apple IIgs, > or Macintosh 3 1/2" external floppy drive with a Amiga? I somehow doubt > it, but... Yes and no... Yes, there are plans for hooking up Macintosh 3.5" floppy drives to the Amiga, BUT, they are used only for the Macintosh Emulators for the Amiga (BTW the Amiga 500 can run a Mac Plus Emulator at just about speed.) > Thanks, > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | >-- Recap, I have the Amiga Disks and also have a split-composite cable to hook the 128 to the 1701 (for the best 40 column output). -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 7 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 09:35 PM 7/12/97 +0000, you wrote: >> >Yes, I was experimenting with lots of hds/models/brands which I got >some experience with them. If you have any questions about hds, >floppy drives, fire yours to me. :) > >Jason D. > Hello there, I run a fileserver that has 2 ST-225 20 meg drives, and 1 NEC 420 meg IDE drive, this system runs 24/7, and has been running for 2 months continuous now. My question is what is the life expectancy of these drives, it is often said that the ST-225 series are not reliable, however they continue to run strong. also these things run so hot that you can fry an egg on it! :)

28 years, 7 months

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IBM 5161??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.970714101129.4470B-100000(a)crl5.crl.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > I saw an interesting relic in the thrift store the other day...and IBM PC > "Expansion Chassis" (I believe that's what it was called). It was > basically an IBM PC case with two full height hard drives instead of > floppy drives. It's model number was 5161 (if I recall correctly). > Didn't bother with it, even though it is kinda unique. Ah yes, the 5161... It is/was a device for adding 6 more slots to a PC, PC/XT or Portable-PC (basically any of the 8-bit bus system). The 5161 itself was a PC/XT cabinet with an 8-slot passive backplane (OK, there was a 14.? MHz oscillator in there) and a standard PSU. There were a pair of cards (the 'extender' and the 'receiver') and a 62 pin cable that linked them. You put the extender into one slot of the 'host' system, the 'receiver' into the passive backplane, and linked them together. You could put I/O or memory cards (although not graphics cards AFAIK) into the remaining slots of the 5161. One problem with buying one of these second-hand is that the extender card (and often the cable) is almost always missing - it's been left in the host. And that card is difficult to find. Schematics, etc are in Volume one of the Options and Adapters TechRef. > Sam -tony

28 years, 7 months

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HP 9836, HP 86 ??

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:45 PM 7/13/97 GMT, you wrote: >GPIB = General-Purpose Interface Bus. Aka IEEE-488, and very similar to >HPIB (= Hewlett-Packard Interface bus). HP were the company who designed it, >but it turns up on all sorts of machines. It's *the* bus used for disk drives, tape drives, printers, etc. for classic (and, to a lesser extent, spectrum) HP 3000 minicomputers. Trust me, I've got a basement full of 'em. (Bought my 3000 to use -- it's what I do for a living.) Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Commodore PET's used IEEE-488 for disk drives, as well as lab stuff. I'm pretty sure I've got an IEEE-488 interface for the VIC-20 around somewhere. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 7 months

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Some Commie questions

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 02:11 PM 7/13/97 -0800, you wrote: >up, I got a Commodore 1702 monitor, and a couple 1541 drives. I've got the >drive attached, and the monitor hooked up via a RF cable (I guess that's >what it's called) through the front connection (This works for the Amiga The c1702 is a very nice monitor. On the back is (IIRC) RGB connectors (or composite? or something like that) but on the front is standard video and audio in. As in, TV. If you hook up a VCR (with a tuner or cable connection), you've got yourself a very nice TV. A few years back, I set up a VCR and 1702 combo on one of those hospital tables for my dad and he spent his time there watching movies (actually, videos of a local teen theatre group -- <http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/yptmtc/>). It makes for a very compact setup. I would love to find one or two for <$10 and use them for exactly that. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 7 months

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Classic Video Games

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 10:34 PM 7/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >Is the display looks like it was using same LED display, "hair thin" >segments under the plastic lens? That would fit with what I remember. If all the lights were lit up, it would look a lot like this: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Only a little closer, vertically. The lights really looked like little red hyphens. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 7 months

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Classic Video Games

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 09:24 PM 7/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >In regard to your post about the old hand held football game... I [...] >believe it was the SAME one that was manufactured by Coleco, or a similar I think the one I had was a Coleco or somebody like that, but I could be wrong. >around. Just the other day, I was in a thrift store in Nebraska City, NE >and they had a pile of 'old' handhelds. I didn't have time to look through >it close, though.... but I'm darn sure they did have a football game or >two though. I'll go back and check it out for you, though. Oh, while were That would be fantastic! I don't know what they sell for now, but I can't imagine it would be bank breaking. Thanks! >on the subject of old football games.... how about those darned magnetic >full-field table football games they used to make?? Do they still exist? I know what you mean, but I never had one. I doubt they still make them; Everyone plays Joe Blow Football '97 on the Super Nintendo nowadays. (My girlfriend's brother does anyway.) I can't even say I've seen one recently. The Musee Mechanique at the Cliff House here in San Francisco probably has one (and other, even older games too!) If you're ever in the City and like that sort of thing, definitely stop in. They have modern games as well as old stuff. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 7 months

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TRS-80 Model I EI question

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: I'm trying to track-down a mod that Tandy on the Expansion Interface. On one of my early EIs (SN# 000352), there was a 6-pin DIN modification, which someone at one time told me was to correct some erratic signal problems. So, I called Tandy and ordered the EI service manual, but it only applies to the "new" PCB version (units with SNs 035000 or greater). Does anyone have the schematics to the original one and can check pin functions?? Internally, the board is labelled "1700077-C", does not have the green conformal coating, and has the RAM chips right next to the power supply section. Mod 1 is on IC Z17 (LS157), pins 1 and 8 (GND) Mod 2 is on IC Z24 (LS32), pins 4 and 7 (GND) Mod 3 is on IC Z22 (LS367), pins 12 and 8 (GND) Matching the old ICs and pin numbers to the new schematics produces the following: Mod 1 is for the MMUX line, Mod 2 is for WR* and Mod 3 is for INT* Can anyone verify this? ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 7 months

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HHC

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by Sam: >I figure total shipping costs will be $4 for a single unit, $5 for a couple, etc. Not sure exactly. I realize the shipping costs may not be what some people bargained for so at this point I would ask that if you want to or need to back out, please do it soon. I am going to try and negotiate a lump sum for the total units that will hopefully bring the cost per unit to $7. That's what I'm shooting for.< I don't know why anyone in their right mind would back out. You said originally $10 per unit, and if the above figures work out, that would end up $12 for a single unit delivered; not bad at all. In fact, for the folks who asked for two, the above figures would product $19 delivered, CHEAPER than you originally said. Still, you're left doing an awful lot of packaging, etc. You might at least want to build in $1-$2 a unit "profit" just to compensate for all your time and effort. On 400 units, that would at least get you a few nice dinners! Please accept our thanks for all your work on this. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 7 months

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Modem Collection

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-14 11:38:57 EDT, you write: actually, i've heard that novation applecat modem was desired by the hacker/phone phreak crowd because of it's abilities. i think it could emulate the dialing tones and do dtmf to make free phone calls. anyone have any correct or detailed info about this? << >> I'm not doing it on purpose, but I find myself unable to let go of this >> Novation CAT modem that I dredged up a few years ago... > >Hmm; I just picked one of these up with an incomplete Apple ][plus system >that I haven't yet had time to muck with, short of cleaning it up a bit. >What's special about it? Absolutely nothing. It's a standard 300 baud modem. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu >> david

28 years, 7 months

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Western Digital Host Adaptors

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->I'm pretty sure that these aren't host adapters; I think they're ->controllers in the traditional SCSI sense. (i.e. you sandwich ->them between the SCSI bus and a MFM or ESDI drive.) -> ->> One is a WD-1000-05, one's a WD-1000-50, and a WD-1000-TB1. If ->> anyone has docs for these (or can tell me where to get them) I would ->> really appreciate it. Tim, They may be host adaptors depending on the suffix they can be host or SASI (pre-scsi). I know the 1002-05/hdo is host. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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(Fwd)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->Here's a real classic for ya. I'd have killed for a system like ->this one, but married life, no room, no time, blah blah blah . . . ->Anyone have a use for a ->Motorola 6800 Exorcisor ->System? This is a real I have the granmother to that the 6800D1 board. If it has a 6809 it's not as old as one with a 6800! Delopment systems are real collectable as they are fewer in numbers. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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GPIB in chemical labs (adding to Re: HP 9836, HP 86)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 23:45 13/07/97 GMT, you wrote: >>GPIB = General-Purpose Interface Bus. Aka IEEE-488, and very similar to >HPIB (= Hewlett-Packard Interface bus). HP were the company who designed it, >but it turns up on all sorts of machines. > >It's an 8-bit parallel interface using a 24 pin connector. 8 pins are ground, >8 are data, 3 are handshake, and 5 are bus control/management. It was >originally designed to link up lab equipment (DVMs, counters, digital 'scopes, But also for interfacing Analytical Instruments (Spectrophotometers, Gas Chromatography etc.) for chemical laboratory, where HP is still one of the most important developing company, and where GPIB is still used. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 7 months

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IBM 5161??

by dastar＠crl.com

I saw an interesting relic in the thrift store the other day...and IBM PC "Expansion Chassis" (I believe that's what it was called). It was basically an IBM PC case with two full height hard drives instead of floppy drives. It's model number was 5161 (if I recall correctly). Didn't bother with it, even though it is kinda unique. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 7 months

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PAM computer, Convergent?

by dastar＠crl.com

Ok, saw three things of interest today. First, I saw a set of boxes from some Scottish company. One was called the PAM computer and simply had some red LED displays on the front to display numbers. Another was FINANCIAL ANALYSER and another still was, oh, forgot. Weird. Anyone ever heard about these? They seemed to be boxes for doing calculations, or displaying results of formulas? Also saw and picked up this Convergent computer thingy. Pretty cool. It has modules that plug together. One is the PROCESSOR module, then there's the EXPANSION DISK module. The boxes which make up this "computer" fit together via this bus and then there's this lever you use to lock the boxes together. Seems I forgot to pickup the Processor module (paid for it but forgot to get it). I also saw some dumb terminals for this system at a thrift shop (they are gone now). Anyone have any info on this? Lastly, I saw this pretty awesome looking Morrow computer which seemed to be of a portable ilk. At first when I saw it from afar it looked like one of those phony props you see in furniture stores. When I got up close I realized it was an actual computer with this funky wide screen built in (it was about 4" high by 8" wide) and two floppy disks. The proprietor of the place I was at made me put it back because apparently it has all the store's financial records back a few years. I offered to copy all the data off for him and pay him good for it but he flat-out refused. Very frustrating. I plan on bugging him about it everytime I go back. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 7 months

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F8 chip was Video Brain

by allisonp＠world.std.com

:> Technology PMOS NMOS This is wrong. both are N-channel silicone gate NMOS. :> # of Instructions 69 70 What this doesn't tell is that the F8 had a very weak instruction set. doing something like xoring a byte was tedious to say the least. The 8080 instruction set was far more general. The F8 was aimed at the market that the 8048 and 8051 would later dominate, IE: single chip MPUs of general application. Also april '78 KILOBAUD had an article speculating on how to use a VB system as a cheap graphic peripheral. Allison

28 years, 7 months

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help with NCR 1203-6000?

by rws＠ais.net

I may have a chance to get a NCR Model 1203-6000 (it's about one step >from abandonment). It appears to work and run both CP/M-80 and MS-DOS. On the serial number sticker it lists its manufacturer as NCR GmbH- am I to assume this may mean it is of German origin? My questions are, has anybody heard of this machine? Does anyone have any info on it? Is it even a classic? Thanks, Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net

28 years, 7 months

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PAM computer, Convergent?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> writes: > Lastly, I saw this pretty awesome looking Morrow computer which seemed to > be of a portable ilk. At first when I saw it from afar it looked like > one of those phony props you see in furniture stores. When I got up > close I realized it was an actual computer with this funky wide screen > built in (it was about 4" high by 8" wide) and two floppy disks. A Morrow Pivot. Portable, battery-operated MS-DOS machine; I'm not sure how IBM-compatible it is. Made by Vadem in Milpitas, OEMd by Morrow as the Pivot, Zenith as something (think they sold a bunch to the IRS), Osborne as the Osborne 3. Keep your eyes open, there are others out there. I've seen one at Halted in Santa Clara but as usual for Halted they were asking a bogus price for it, something like $100. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 7 months

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Datamaster troubles

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Rich Cini wrote: > My Datamaster Troubles... > Well, I'm reviving my Datamaster. Last year, it worked fine (I at least > could get into Basic). This year, I can't even get it to boot. I have no > manuals for the darned thing, so I have no idea what the numbers on the screen > during the POST mean. I have one reverse-highlighted number: "09" and I'm > assuming that this is a hardware failure code. > I have the "Diagnostic" diskette, but since I think that the floppies are > not working (or the diskette is now bad), it's useless. I must admit, I haven't booted mine recently. It is just about visible under the pile of junk in that part of my computer room... I can, however, easily get at the manuals. The service manual is not much use, I'm afraid, but I can look up the diagnostic codes for you. I shall try and do this this evening, and post it tomorrow, but I can't promise anything. Philip.

28 years, 7 months

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He shoots! He Boots! Heath Lives!

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Whilst in a self-induced trance, Stacy C. Morang happened to blather: >On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: >> H-120-1. I'm assuming this is the model number. >It is. Uh... Update, folks! (and I gotta name this thing now... how about "Heather"... 8-) Get it?!? It boots! Did I mention that it came with one floppy disk stuck in the bottom drive? This floppy was a boot floppy! And it still works! Joy! ;-) >> Something tickled in my brain about those floppies, so as I lumbered around >> in the dark in my newly-begun clean-ish basement (Eeeeek!) I found my old >> non-working Atari 810 disk drive... and the mechs looked almost exact! >> Would these happen to be the same mechanically, would anyone know? > >Probably not, the Z (or H) used standard SA-455? 360K ibm pc style drives You're right, but they seem to format to only 320K (8 sectors/track, not 9) with the DOS I do have, which is listed in the stats of the machine I listed below... The broken drive *does* work! It's only the door that's broken, so I sacrificed my Atari 810 (which was dead anyway) and the garage door from it is exact! Yiippee! >Top, I think. (I have one, but I only got it for the Winchester drive >card). Whaddya did with the rest? A few spare parts might be nice (or a color tube, if yours had it... ;-) >That is the monitor rom, and certain keys should do something more >interesting, like > >C - color bars (if you have color video, otherwise b&w bars) >B - boot prompt, pressing the right combo of numbers and fkeys selects >the boot drive. > >D - dump memory I don't doubt your memory, but I think this is a (prolly earlier) version of the monitor rom... specs to follow. I fat-fingered *all* the keys on it, and here's what works: B -- boots. Accepts parameters of: 0, 1, 2, 3, and that tells it what floppy to boot from. Plain B assumes floppy 0, which is top. Thanks! All else beeps with invalid parameter, except "S", which appears to do nothing. Would this be boot from the serial port, perchance? V -- Version of the monitor rom, which is Version 1.02. Nothing else worked... >It will boot off of CP/M, MP/M, UCSD P-System, Concurrent CP/M, MS-DOS >and others. If you find a generic version 1 or maybe 2 ms-dos it might >boot, pc specific PC dos won't. This thing came with a Version 1 Dos... here's the specs of the boot: Z-DOS / MS-DOS BIOS Release 1.00 Version 1.02 Z-DOS / MS-DOS Release 1.00 Version 1.25 (C)Copyright 1982, Zenith Data Systems Z-DOS / MS-DOS Command Release 1.00 Version 1.19 >The machine has an 8088 and an 8085 processor, and uses the appropriate >one for the os in question. I've pulled 'er apart to fix the floppy, and to clean the keyboard & all. Sure enough, it has a NEC 8085A plastic, and an Intel 8088 like-eprom-whatever-you-call-it case. It presently has 128K RAM in it! Questions: 1. Whilst it's all apart, does anyone want me to snap pictures? I can... 2. How high can this rascal go in memory? I located 3 banks (9 each -- parity) of 64kx1 300ns DRAM, two of which are populated. Mathmatically, that works to: 128K RAM. The third bank is empty. Can I pop in 9 more chips without setting any jumpers/dipswitches? How about bigger DRAMS? (prolly not... but it's worth an ask!) Still, 192K is still pretty good for a machine from '82! (also, on the question of jumpers... anyone have a tech-like manual for this thing I could get a copy of... or at least a copy of the important pages?) 3. The video board which is based on the Motorola 68A45P video chip, presently has 64K onboard for *just* the green section of the board. This rascal can handle 192K Video Memory!!! Funky! ;^> (that is, if I'm reading the boards right.... but CHKDSK doesn't return the added video memory, so that'd seem correct.) Does the board support any form of graphics? I tried the standard basic commands (ZBasic was on the floppy) but it seemed only to work in text. For this thing having 2 Intel-based processors, I'm surprised with the amount of Motorola logic in this rascal! Prolly a 3rd of it is Moto, including the 74 series chips! All of the important support chips, like the video processor, the PIA's & UARTS, and all that jazz seem to be Moto. Well folks, I havta say: This is one *sweet* machine! :-) >I'm not sure what the licensing requirements are, however, I do have >several OS's for the machine - I'm sure something can be worked out. Did Heath/Zenith bundle an OS with the disk systems? If so, wouldn't I own a license to own a copy of the included OS, as I own the machine? I'm not sure how stuff like that works, especially on the old stuff. >You're welcome, pity I'm so far behind in the mail... >-stacy No prob... I'm behind as well, as you can plainly see! >So long, and keep your stick on the ice. Ohhh, brrrr! I hope yer' talkin' Hockey!!! ;^> Thanks again, and have a good weekend! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.

28 years, 7 months

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Western Digital Host Adaptors

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

>> I have a few WD-1000 host adaptors, and I need to get some >> information about them. Western Dig. is of not much help-- their web >> site dosen't carry docs from that far back. >> >> I used to have a chart delineating what controller card was what, but >> I've since lost it. There aren't PeeCee host adaptors; rather they >> are the same footprint as a 5.25' floppy drive (actually, one is >> bigger). > >I'm pretty sure that these aren't host adapters; I think they're >controllers in the traditional SCSI sense. (i.e. you sandwich >them between the SCSI bus and a MFM or ESDI drive.) Somewhere I have docs on the WD1002-05 which, IIRC, has a WD1000-compatible hardware interface. The exception is that the WD1000 supplies a WAIT signal and the WD1002 doesn't. "The WD1002-05 has been designed to interface to a Host processor via a parallel port or CPU bus configurations. The specific signals are compatible with the WD1000/WD1001 series of Winchester-only controller boards. With the inclusion of the WD1015, the previous WAIT signal is no longer necessary, but has been provided for compatability; status information is always available to the Host for monitoring command progress. When the Busy bit is set, no other status bits are valid." The host connector is a 40 pin connector. Of this, all even pins are grounds. The other pins are: 1 -15 : DAL0 through DAL7 respectively 17-21 : A0 through A2, respectively 23 : CS 25 : WE 27 : RE 29 : Pulled up on the WD1002; this is probably WAIT on the 1000. 31, 33: Not connected 35 : Interrupt request 37 : DMA request 39 : Reset I suspect the interrupt request, DMA request, and Reset ar all asserted high; the photocopied manual section I have doesn't make this clear. The WD1002 is programmed like an IDE controller with an 8-bit data register. I suspect the WD1000 is as well. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 7 months

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Bigger problem with VMS

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> As I have no username/password, I can't shut it down right! > How do I shut down VMS without losing the harddisk? > Can I just power it off? OK, a few things about VMS. To break into VMS, boot it /1 like this: >>> b/1 It will give you a SYSBOOT> prompt, at which time you tell it to use the console for the startup command file: SYSBOOT> set/start=opa0: SYSBOOT> continue Then it'll boot farther and give you a $ prompt. What I usually do here is this: $ spawn <<< spawning SYSTEM_1 message >> $ @sys$system:startup This executes the startup file. When the startup file exits, you get the $ prompt back. At that point, you can: $ spawn $ set def sys$system: $ mc authorize UAF> set system/password=whatever UAF> ^Z $ At this point, you can either shut the system down: $ @sys$system:shutdown [[[ you can punch return to all the questions ]]] and power cycle the system or just hit the power switch. Unlike Unix, VMS doesn't eat the disk if the power goes out unexpectedly; normally, you'll want to shut it down with the shutdown command, though (what happens if any files are open is that blocks allocated to those files are marked as allocated in the bitmap but not recorded as belonging to those files in the directory; if you just turn the power off, you'll essentially lose space on the mounted disks that have open files). The next time you boot, the system will remember that it wants to use the console as the startup command file, so you'll have to do the "conversational boot" again and set it back: >>> b/1 SYSBOOT> set/start=sys$system:startup.com SYSBOOT> continue Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 7 months

1
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HHC UPDATE

by josh＠netins.net

>dastar(a)crl.com could you bump my order down to two? Thanks! Josh M. Nutzman +----------------------------------------------+ |"Life is like a river, you go with the flow...| | but in the end you usually end up dammed." | | -The Red Green Show | +----------------------------------------------+

28 years, 7 months

1
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Modem Collection

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

>On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Roger Ivie wrote: > >> I'm not doing it on purpose, but I find myself unable to let go of this >> Novation CAT modem that I dredged up a few years ago... > >Hmm; I just picked one of these up with an incomplete Apple ][plus system >that I haven't yet had time to muck with, short of cleaning it up a bit. >What's special about it? Absolutely nothing. It's a standard 300 baud modem. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 7 months

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Modem Collection

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> > > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > > > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. > > > > I'm not doing it on purpose, but I find myself unable to let go of this > > Novation CAT modem that I dredged up a few years ago... > > Are you referring to the AppleCat? Nope, I'm referring to a plain old Novation CAT 300 baud acoustic coupled modem. I saved it from the trash heap a few years ago because I was going on travel somewhere that I knew A) I would have to do some remote access >from my hotel room and 2) the hotel room didn't have modular jacks. It was the only acoustic coupler I could find and worked great. I haven't had the heart to toss it out since. BTW, this would have been about '92 that I was using 300 baud modems from hotel rooms... Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 7 months

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(Fwd)

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

Here's a real classic for ya. I'd have killed for a system like this one, but married life, no room, no time, blah blah blah . . . Maybe someone out there wants this. Jeff ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Path: Supernews70!supernews.com!news.he.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwel l.syr.edu!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hookup!winternet.com!not-for-mail From: Jim Tousignant <jtous(a)pcpros.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.m6809 Subject: 6800 Exorciser System Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:39:30 -0500 Organization: Acme Lines: 7 Message-ID: <33C51042.42DB9891(a)pcpros.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin45.pcpros.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i586) Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.m6809:186 Anyone have a use for a Motorola 6800 Exorcisor System? This is a real antique - we're talkin dual 8" drives here, 6809 assembler, all kinds of add on cards.

28 years, 7 months

1
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IBM 5110

by HamiJohn＠aol.com

Hi, Had one at work in the late 70's/early 80's. What specifically would you like to know? John Hamilton hamijohn(a)aol.com

28 years, 7 months

1
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What exactly, is an IBM System 36?

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> I have the oportunity to aquire an IBM System 36 model 5364 with manuals > and operating disks, all in working condition. My question is, I have never > heard of this system (the 360/370, yes). What can I expect? The S/36 is a minicomputer from the early 1980s (?). It replaced the system/34, although I still had to work on one of the latter as a student in 1985-6. I don't think I have much documentation on the S/36, but I have some on the S/34, including an OCL (operation control language - rather like JCL) reference which might help you. The 5364 was a late S/36, the Desktop model. It comes in a box that looks remarkably like a PC/AT (the only external difference being the disk drive bays I think). Unfortunately its floppy drive is 5 1/4 inch, where all other S/36s at that date had 8 inch. Trivia information: The largest S/36, together with the S/34 and a word processing system of which I can no longer remember the number, all had the nicest floppy drive I have ever seen. It took twenty-three disks - three singly and two cassettes of ten each - on a moving carriage (tautology??). It moved the carriage until the appropriate disk was opposite the hole, then sucked it in and read/wrote it. Fast. :-) Philip.

28 years, 7 months

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History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Uncle Roger wrote: > (But I always was, and always will be, a Robotron man...) What!?!?! Do you mean the East German Robotron Elektronik, or is this another company with the same name? If the former, do you know what the Robotron 7022 is/was? I think it is a micro of early '80s vintage. I have a Robotron 7622 - a large (5U rack mount) box that appears to be the console for it (lamps and switches and four 7-segment hex digits). I am trying to reverse engineer but am having problems with Russian chip numbers. Sometime soon I shall make a longer posting on this subject... Philip.

28 years, 7 months

2
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Video Brain

by ccm＠sentex.net

>Sam Ismail wrote: > One of the >> systems he mentioned he had was a Video Brain. Apparently this is a >> video game system. I *think* I vaguely remember hearing about this >> system. At any rate I'm curious about it and was wondering if anybody >> knew what it was as we both had too much tequila for him to describe and >> for me to comprehend it. >Video brain was made by a firm called UMTECH, used a microprocessor >called F8 and had 1 to 4K of RAM memory. It was possible to store the >data on cassette and, you are right there, it had many plug-in >cartridges with games on them. It was sold mainly through departments >stores and specialty electronic stores (at least that is what "A >Collector's guide to personal computers" book has to say about it) > >enrico > >================================================================ >Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. >tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile >website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi> >================================================================ >visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm> > > > This is a case of two computers and one name. The Video Brain is also a desktop, CP/M microcomputer built in the early 1980's. It physically resembles an Applied Digital Data Systems ADDS 70 intelligent terminal with dual 5 1/4" floppies mounted beside the monitor. Now you must investigate further and tell us which one it is. Yours in good faith.

28 years, 7 months

4
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Classic Video Games

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:48 PM 7/11/97 -0600, you wrote: >I think that was RS. I had one of those too. Got pretty boring pretty >quick, cause you could fake down, go up three times and spaz on the >forward button for a guaranteed first down every time. (or was it a >guaranteed TD? I can't remember.) guaranteed TD. Yep, that's it. 8^) It may have been boring, but it was better than studying! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 7 months

2
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Some Commie questions

by george.lin＠documentum.com

Zane, Are you trying to connect the 1702 monitor to the C128 RF port? It won't work. The 1702 monitor should be connected to the C128 VIDEO port via a special cable. The VIDEO port outputs composite video signal. The RF port outputs VHS Channel 3 or 4 and is used for TV connection. George -- George Lin Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) Manager, Data/Voice Communi- Phone/Fax: 510-463-6800/6850 cation & End-User Computing http://www.documentum.com Email Fax mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy [SMTP:healyzh@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, July 13, 1997 3:11 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Some Commie questions Hi, I gather this rates as a classic at least :^) Been working on my Weekend haul, and having only ever had a Vic 20 (which sadly I gave away years ago), I'm somewhat out of my depth. My main question is on the C= 128, along with all the other stuff I picked up, I got a Commodore 1702 monitor, and a couple 1541 drives. I've got the drive attached, and the monitor hooked up via a RF cable (I guess that's what it's called) through the front connection (This works for the Amiga 500 I also got yesterday). Anyway, I power the thing on, it "buzzes" the drive like it's expecting to find something, and I don't get anything on the display. I remember that the C64's like the VIC-20 would drop you at the prompt even if you had nothing attached, and didn't need any kind of boot floppies. Do I need some kind of boot disk for this beast? I gather a CGA monitor will work, so I guess I should dig out one of the old Mono-CGA monitors I've got in storage. The next question would be, is it worth trying to repair a C64's power supply? I got two of them yesterday, both powersupplies are dead. It looks like the 5V line is shorted to ground. I did get a copy of the Old & New style users manuals, and a copy of "Troubleshooting and Repairing your Commodore 64" yesterday (I love Powells Technical Books!) so I've got some documentation. It's been too many years since I worked as an Electrician, so my skill level is pretty low (wasn't very high to begin with, which is why I switched to computers). Then there is the Amiga 500. About a month ago, I'd picked up a copy of "Bards Tale" for the Amiga, so I know it works. Problem is I don't have a copy of the two floppies that came with the computer originally (also got the manual for this at Powells). I think I've got the Kickstart 1.2 ROMs (it has a 1.2 on the screen when asking for the Workbench disk). Where can I get the disks? I don't suppose it's like the Apple IIgs software that you can now download. The second Amiga question would be, is it possible to hook up Apple IIgs, or Macintosh 3 1/2" external floppy drive with a Amiga? I somehow doubt it, but... Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

28 years, 7 months

2
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Video game machine/Computer With 6800 Processor

by MPritchard＠ensemble.net

> Does anyone remember this machine : > > it's a video game console (like the atari VCS) but which could sit on > a box which then converts it to a home computer. > > The machine ran on a 6800 and had built-in basic. > > It came out approx at the same time as the Atari 400/800 series > (78-79?) > > I remember seeing an ad on it and the heading of the ad was > "imagination machine". > > > Ben > > Ahh, the "APF Imagination Machine" I believe. Somewhere I have a > single cartridge for it. > > -Mp

28 years, 7 months

2
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Updates

by bill＠booster.bothell.washington.edu

Hi all. A lot of things have been significantly updated over the last few weeks. You may want to take a look. The web site (http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html) has been reworked somewhat. Brett's Classic Computer Encyclopedia (http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/index.html) has grown quite a bit but could use some images (hint, hint, guys) Isaac's Classic Computer Rescue site (http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html) is looking good. The Links Section of the web site has nearly doubled (although I know you guys have more that you could cough up ;) Same with the FAQs section (once again - send me more) and the ClassicCmp FAQ has been HTMLized for your ease of reading. The document archive is online (although most listings are still being held under review). The Big List of Classic Computers now contains sections for Prototype and Limited-Run computers and for computers which more info is needed on. The FTP site has been indexed and divided up into sections for various computers - not a whole lot is there, a few faqs, articles, and pictures. Feel free to send more ;) (ftp://140.142.225.27/pub/classiccmp) Bill ---------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson - Classic Computers ListOp bill(a)booster.u.washinton.edu or bcw(a)u.washington.edu http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw

28 years, 7 months

4
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HP 9836, HP 86 ??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> > The HP86 is basically an HP85 without the built-in monitor,tape drive, > > or printer, but with GPIB as standard. The 9121 is a single-sided version of > > the 9122 if that's any help. > > Ok, you've lost me on that one. What is the GPIB? GPIB = General-Purpose Interface Bus. Aka IEEE-488, and very similar to HPIB (= Hewlett-Packard Interface bus). HP were the company who designed it, but it turns up on all sorts of machines. It's an 8-bit parallel interface using a 24 pin connector. 8 pins are ground, 8 are data, 3 are handshake, and 5 are bus control/management. It was originally designed to link up lab equipment (DVMs, counters, digital 'scopes, etc), but HP use it as a general peripheral bus (disk drives, plotters, printers, etc) on some of their micros. Commodore used it for much the same purpose (although with looser timing requirements) on the PETs > David Williams - Computer Packrat -tony

28 years, 7 months

1
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HP 9836, HP 86 ??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> There are two flavors of HP 86, the 86A and the 86B. Thanks for the info - I've only used 86B's. > Re: the 9121: yep, single-sided Sony stiffy drives that hold about > 300KB I think. It's been too long and I have forgotten just about > everything except that the single-sided ones never seemed to hold > quite enough (this on HP 150s). Probalby 320 or 360K bytes (at least on the 150 - is the 9121 supported on the 150 - my manuals are silent on the subject...). It's 80 track single-sided, and thus the same size as a double-sided 40 track disk. > You know how 3.5" drives open the metal slider so they can get at the > medium? The very earliest drives didn't, and the stiffies didn't > spring-load the slider -- it was up to the user to slide the slider > before insertion into and after removal from the drive. I've also seen disks that open automatically, but stay open when ejected. You 'pinch' them to close them. They did not close automatically on ejection from any drive. > -Frank McConnell -tony

28 years, 7 months

1
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PDP performance question.

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> what is a PDP? choices 1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,11/780,11/750,11/730? Got something against the PDP12 and PDP15, then ? :-) [Sorry, couldn't resist it!] > Allison -tony

28 years, 7 months

1
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Extra stuff to go

by jeffh＠unix.aardvarkol.com

Ben, I recieved your money order in the mail, but due to my work schedule, it's likely I won't be able to try and ship the Model 4 until at least Tuesday. I'll let you knwo as soon as I ship. Thanks. Jeff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

28 years, 7 months

1
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Dead Thomson To7 -70

by strzecha＠kis.p.lodz.pl

Hi, Yesterday I recived Thomson To7-70 computer, which is totally dead. When it's working, on display there are only horizontal color lines, each of them has witdh of one character. Is ther anybody who can say me whots's bad. I suppose this can be demaged processor (it's incredibly hot after 2-3 minuters of working), but I am not sure. Thanks, Krzysztof Strzecha

28 years, 7 months

2
2
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PAM computer, Convergent?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com> writes: > Nope. I've got a Pivot. This was nothing like the Pivot. It was close > to the shape of an Osbourne and it was beige. It was close to the > dimensions of a tower case only it sits horizontally. You are right, that is not a Pivot. Unfortunately I am not sure what it is. > I got mine for free. Like I said, "bogus price". I didn't buy it. I didn't even inquire at the counter. IBM-compatibles (and I think these were fairly so) aren't real interesting to me even if George Morrow did let his name get put on 'em. (Though I do have one of the Osborne 3 flavor...a moment of weakness I guess.) BTW, speaking of Morrow stuff, I met a guy at the Foothill swap meet today who was selling a Micro Decision (claimed to be an MD-11 but two floppies, no hard disk) for $30. I'm not interested -- got two of 'em that I haven't touched for a while -- but thought someone here might be. Has software and manuals but I did not see the big stack of paper-bound manuals that I might expect; the seller said he got it >from an ex-Morrow employee and it may have been assembled from excess parts but is functional. Other stuff found at the Foothill swap: Sinclair ZX-80. Well, it's in pieces, but board, case top, case bottom, wall wart...yep, looks like they're all there. $5. First one I've seen in years so I snagged it. A couple of S-100 bits. Some HP employees were perturbed by the prices of quality S-100 gear and so set about designing their own, and it looks like they got to use HP's printed-circuit production facilities. Apparently I missed the chassis but got the junk box for another $5. Included are a pristine blank CPU board of their design, as well as a couple of S-100 bus terminators. S-100 bus terminators with the HP logo, whodathunkit? Part number on the board is 7373-60003, and the board comes with helpful instructions in the traces (no solder mask or silkscreen): TERMINATOR THE LAST BOARD I think there is a story here, and I want to know more of it than I got today. Convergent Tech Workslate, plus printer and serial/parallel box, condition uncertain. $26. Pricey but if I get it cleaned up and working it could make a nice desk toy at the office. What sort of power input do these things want? Xerox 820 board, socketed but ICs not plugged in. Another project that the owner lost interest in. $2. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 7 months

2
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What exactly, is an IBM System 36?

by spc＠armigeron.com

I have the oportunity to aquire an IBM System 36 model 5364 with manuals and operating disks, all in working condition. My question is, I have never heard of this system (the 360/370, yes). What can I expect? Secondly, from the same source, I can get a Compac Portable I XT with harddrive and memory upgrade, ethernet 3/comm and AST 5250 emulation (some mainframe terminal?), again all in working condition, but from what I hear, it's portable in the term that yes, you can lug the entire setup. Third, for anyone that is interested (you pay shipping, plus maybe a few extra bucks - whatever you think it's worth) the following are also available: 10M HD for an IBM 360 Monroe (possible) "bookkeeping machine" Underwood typewriter (manual) (unknown) manual adding machine I'll be hearing more about this stuff on Monday. -spc (Is getting more stuff than he knows what to do with ... )

28 years, 7 months

2
3
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IBM 5110

by strzecha＠kis.p.lodz.pl

Hi, I'm looking for information about IBM 5110 computer. Is there anybody who can help me ? Thanks Krzysztof Strzecha

28 years, 7 months

1
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HP 9836, HP 86 ??

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <199707122130.QAA02137(a)Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > I was just checking out a new store near me and saw an HP 9836. > Anyone know anything about this? It looked like a one piece setup > with a built-in monitor and 2 5 1/4" floppy drives and keyboard. It > was BIG. Can anyone tell me about it? I can't tell you much about it, although if it's the machine I am thinking of, the monitor is actually a separate box that locks in place. It's a 68000-based machine, and has GPIB as standard. SOme of them have a ROM board containing (I think) HP-basic, while others boot from floppy. > I also saw an HP 86 with lots of carts plugged into the rear and an > HP 9816 monitor and HP 9121 3 1/2" dual drive unit. I'm talking to > the guy about picking these up so if someone can give me some info on > them I'd appreciate it. The HP86 is basically an HP85 without the built-in monitor,tape drive, or printer, but with GPIB as standard. The 9121 is a single-sided version of the 9122 if that's any help. > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat -tony

28 years, 7 months

2
1
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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by manney＠nwohio.com

> %but that a 25 _year_ old minicomputer on the same desk was still > going strong. > > It really depends. No doubt minicomputer HD were reliable, but the > early MFM stuff for PCs were shitty to work with. Depends on the HDD. Some (such as the ST-225) were el cheapo products (cheap at the time, compared with more expensive ones -- I have a 1984 adv't, listing ST-225's at $400; ST-251 at $600!)...IBM's Xybec controllers were slow, tho' I don't know how reliable. Some ST-506/412 -- e.g., the ST-225 -- drives lacked autopark heads, thus inviting problems.

28 years, 7 months

6
6
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Fwd: TRS80 Hardware and Software

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

This advert appeared in an Australian newsgroup, obviously in error. It turns out the guy is in Milwaukee, WI. Perhaps some of you USA people are interested. Hans Olminkhof FOR SALE: Trs80/Tandy/Radio Shack Hardware & Software Make replies to: Rrotaru(a)execpc.com As of July 10, 1997 the following items are for sale and are open to any reasonalbe offer (either as a package or individual items). All items MUST go! So, don't wait too long to respond. All items are in working condition unless otherwise noted. You pay for shipping. HARDWARE: (2) Trs80 Model 4's (both need power supplies; 64K Non-Gate Array's) (2) Radio Shack Line Printer VIII's (with extra ribbons)...both work fine. (1) Tandy DT-1 Data Terminal (w/manual, tech manual, spare keyboard & parts) (2) Trs80 Model 1's (each w/ expansion interface, manuals & monitor) (1) Joystick for Model 1 (Big Five "Trisstick") (1) TC-8 cassette interface for Model 1 (with tapes!) (1) Radio Shack Line Printer II interface for Model 1 (1) Microtek MT-32 Printer/Memory module for Model 1 (1) Micro Mint 300 Baud Modem (for Model 1; w/ Comm80 cassette software) (1) Orchestra 90 Stereo Music Synthesizer (for Model 3/4 w/floppies & docs) (5) Single sided/Double density (180K) 5.25" floppy drives (orig. Tandy) (2) Tandy Color Computer 2's (Coco 2) (1) Direct connect modem (300 baud for Coco) (1) Tandy CM-2 Color Monitor (for Coco 3, but will do CGA on IBM-PC's!) SOFTWARE: TRS80 MODEL 1: Advanced Statistical Analysis (cassette) Level 1 Game Pack (cassette) Personal Finance (cassette) Cassette Comm (obvious) Temple of Apshai (cassette game) TRS80 MODEL 3: In Memory Information (cassette) Assembly Language Tutor (cassette - Model 1 & 3, two copies one is sealed) Trs80/Z80 Assembly Language Library (Model 1 & 3; floppies) Computer Graphics (Basic/utils/subroutines; floppy) Compiler Basic (Model 1 & 3; floppy) Series 1 Editor/Assembler Ver. 1.00 (floppy) Trsdos 6.02.00 (orig. disk & manual) Mail/File System Ver. 3.3 (Galactic Software; floppy) Find It Quick-Instant Software (Model 1 & 3; floppy) Mirco Courier Ver. 1.00.00 (floppy) Profile Ver. 3.4 (floppy) Micro Pilot Authoring System Ver. 1.00.00 (floppy) Computer Assisted Reading Development C.A.R.D. (floppy) Basic Course (cassette) Scripsit (text editor; cassette) Lots of cassette software...Mostly Model 3 stuff...some are orig. tapes TRS80 MODEL 4: Profile 4 Plus Ver. 1.00.03 (floppy) Disk Scripsit Ver. 1.00 (text editor; floppy) Target Planner Calc (spreadsheet; floppy) The Producer Ver. 4.0 (create basic programs using plain english; floppy) Deskmate ReportStar (word processing/report creator; CP/M software - Montizuma Micro) COLOR COMPUTER 2/3 (CoCo2 or 3): Mickey's Space Adventure (kid's game, sealed; floppy) Ghana Bwana (kid's game, 2 copies- 1 is sealed; floppy) Color Math (kid's math tutor, 2 copies- 1 is sealed; cassette) Rocky's Boots (kid's game; floppy) Flightsim I (for Coco 3; floppy) Dungeons of Daggorath (kid's game, cartridge) Personal Finance II (cartridge) Color Scripsit (text editor; cartridge) Spectaculator (spreadsheet program; cartridge) BasicOS9 (floppy) OS9 Profile (floppy) Castle of Tharoggao (game; cartridge) Rogue (Coco3; floppy) Kronis Rift (Lucasfilm game, Coco3; floppy) Chromacassette's (several with games and utils; cassettes) MANUALS AND DOCS: Oricle 80 (photo copies) Tandy Home Education Systems - Vidtex Basic Computer Games/More Basic Computer Games Series I Editor/Assembler Tandy Intelligent Modem DC-2212 (manual only- no modem) Profile III Plus (no disk) Super Scripsit (no disk) Trsdos Ver. 6.1.2 (manual only, no disk...copies available upon request) Dow Jones Information Service User Guide Business Mailing List Quick Quiz Lynn's Check Register System (photocopy) Disk Course (photocopy) Teacher Aid (photocopy) T-Bug - Z80 Monitor & Debugging Aid (photocopy) Micro Music (photocopy) Tape Payroll System (photocopy) Cross Reference Utility (photocopy) Host Term (photocopy) Show & Spell (photocopy) Statistical Analysis (photocopy) In Memory Information system (photocopy) BOOKS: Introduction to Trs80 Gaphics - Don Inman Trs80 Graphics - Don Inman Advanced Level II Basic - Don Inman/Bob Albrecht/Ramon Zamora) Using the Trs80 In Your Home - Charles D. Sternberg Trs80 Graphics for the Model 1 & Model 3 - David A. Kater/Susan J. Thomas Visicalc For Your Trs80 - Carol Klitzner/Matthew J. Plociak Jr Visicalc Applications - Robt. E. Williams/Bruce J. Taylor/Brian L. King Business Programming Applications - Wm. Barden (for Model 1/3/2/16) Introdcution to SuperScripsit Word Processing Tandy Source Book (software applications - Vol. 8) Business Programs for the Trs80 Model 1/3 - Charles D. Sternberg The Rest of 80 - 80Micro Magazine Publications 80Micro's Review Guide Trs80 Data File Programming Model 1/3 - Finkel/Brown Encyclopedia for the Trs80 Vol. 1-10 Understanding Digital Computers - Radio Shack Getting Started With Trs80 Basic (Model 1/3/4) - Radio Shack MAGAZINES: Trs80 Microcomputer News (1979-1986, some years complete, some not) 80 Micro (1981-1988; some years complete, some not) MISC IBM & COMPATIBLE STUFF: Model PC-130a 150 Watt switching power supply (new in box...never used) Atari SX212 External 1200 baud modem (For Atari and IBM; Hayes compatible!) Viva 2400 baud Internal Fax/Modem (fax is 9600 send/4800 receive) Telix VGA TTL mono monitor (must have TTL video card) Epson FX-80 printer (still prints ok, carriage needs cleaning) ====================================================================== ====== REPLY TO: Rrotaru(a)execpc.com ====================================================================== ======

28 years, 7 months

1
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HP 9836, HP 86 ??

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes: > The HP86 is basically an HP85 without the built-in monitor,tape drive, > or printer, but with GPIB as standard. The 9121 is a single-sided version of > the 9122 if that's any help. There are two flavors of HP 86, the 86A and the 86B. The 86A does not have the built-in GPIB (aka IEEE-488 aka HP-IB). Instead it has three connectors on the back. All three look the same, like Centronics printer connectors but maybe with screw-downs instead of ears. One is for a cable to a Centronics-ish printer. The other two are for cables to external 5.25" floppy drives. The 86B does away with all this and instead has an HP-IB connector. Re: the 9121: yep, single-sided Sony stiffy drives that hold about 300KB I think. It's been too long and I have forgotten just about everything except that the single-sided ones never seemed to hold quite enough (this on HP 150s). HP was an early adopter of the Sony 3.5" stiffies, back when it was not clear that the 3.5" format was going to be the winner from the several sub-5.25" media. You know how 3.5" drives open the metal slider so they can get at the medium? The very earliest drives didn't, and the stiffies didn't spring-load the slider -- it was up to the user to slide the slider before insertion into and after removal from the drive. For a while there were goes-either-way stiffies: slider spring-loaded so that they would close on eject from an auto-open drive, but also with a catch so you could slide the slider over to the left before insertion into a non-auto-open drive, then pinch the corner after removal to release the catch and let the spring pull the slider closed. That is why those stiffies have the legend "PINCH" near that corner. I don't know how pervasive these early drives were. The place where I worked at the time had a few 1983-dated pieces of equipment (a 9121, some 9133XVs) that were the auto-open variety. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 7 months

1
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Saturday Haul

by thedm＠sunflower.com

I need a 128 for my collection, care to part with one? ---------- > From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Saturday Haul > Date: Saturday, July 12, 1997 10:23 PM > > Today was one of those good days/bad days. I ended up with quite a few > machines I didn't have but ended up losing out on some stuff. The bad > news? I bought an 11/23 w/ HD and it somehow got separated from the > stuff I bought and I do not have it now. Second, that Spectragraphics > CAD workstation I have been telling people about had 6 Sony color > Trinitron monitors, all working, and they sold for $5 each. I am told > (after the fact) that they are worth about $500 each on the used > equipment market. > > Good news, I ended up with: > > Tandy 6000 HD w/docs and software > ATT PC7300 w/ some docs and software > Three Apple IIe computers w/ 4 floppy drives total > Apple IIc computer w/monitor, printer, software, manuals > Wang Computer model PC-XC3-2 (docs coming when they get found) > Two Commodore 128C computers > Non-Linear-Systems Kaypro II > Two IBM PC Keyboards > Six C64 game cartridges > Modem for C64 > Radio Shack Printer > 386 DX40 w/ 200 MB HD, 6 MB Ram > > Total outlay was about $30. Ham radio events can be a goldmine for old > computer stuff!

28 years, 7 months

1
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Altair Construction Manual

by rcini＠msn.com

To all Altair fans... Well, my more-than-kind individual has provided me with the first of three installments of the original Altair construction manual. He scanned all 102 pages of the doc and made it into a PDF document -- almost 7mb in size. He is also providing me with manuals for "the 88-4K, 88-ACR, and other stuff." I'm not too familiar with all of the available options since the Altair was really before my time, but it looks like the 4k memory board and other stuff. I'm not going to U/L the docs yet, first for size reasons, and second, until we determine if we should try to contact Triumph-Adler... On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Jim Willing wrote: >>So, it can be assumed that TA [Triumph-Adler of Germany] now >>owns all of the rights to things MITS/Altair. I've tried to contact them >>on occasion on related matters and have gotten no response of any >>kind to date. Anybody have any thoughts? ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 7 months

2
1
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PDP performance question.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> How is a PDP-11/23 compared to a 486SX/33? An 11/23 is slower than a 486 if it's running faster than 16mhz. but a 486 is running single user. > About how many percent is the PDP of the 486? what is a PDP? choices 1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,11/780,11/750,11/730? > About how many percent of the 486 is the VAX? Depending... first I've rarely seen a vax run a single user OS. A 486dx/33 compares to a 3100m38 if they are both running *nix. while the vax is slower in MIPs it is the ultimate CISC and can do more in fewer than a 486. It is also optimized for multitasking/timsharing something the 486 is not. Allison

28 years, 7 months

1
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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> It's a pity that a lot of the custom uProcessors were never really > publicly documented. That includes the ones found in the Sharp Basic > calculators. Some of the Sharp ones were documented - There are Technical reference/machine language manuals for (at least) the PC1500 and PC1350 families - I have both of them. Sharp service manuals (yes, they exist as well) contain schematics/pinouts but little (if any) machine code information. > Ben -tony >

28 years, 7 months

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We now own a VAX!

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-12 19:18:47 EDT, DA Seagraves put forth: you might want to post about it on comp.sys.dec newsgroup. i asked for some info there on my uVAX ][ i got recently, and got some really good info from the regulars there. there's a faq also, try ftp'ing to digital and look around. i know there's one there. << For $200 I got a VAX from a business that went under. It's a VAXserver 3100, with VMS 5.3 on it. I have no idea what to do with it, this is the first time I've ever seen VMS. I have a 50-user liscense. When I boot it up, it seems to wait forever for DECWindows to get DECnet or something... Someone please explain what this is and what it can do. Any help appreciated. This had an IP number, so it may be on the Internet if I can make it work... >> david

28 years, 7 months

1
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Classic Video Games

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-12 07:42:02 EDT, Sam Ismail writes: << If you've ever heard that one Fleetwood Mac song, you'll recognize the "tackle" sound in one part of the song where he sings "So digital" and then you hear "blrrrp blrrrp". >> actually, it's supertramp. =D david

28 years, 7 months

2
1
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Modem Collection

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. I'm not doing it on purpose, but I find myself unable to let go of this Novation CAT modem that I dredged up a few years ago... Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 7 months

4
3
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Panasonic HandHeld Update and FINAL COUNT!

by dastar＠crl.com

Ok Folks, here it is...the final count. Any last minute additions will be accomodated up until tonight so act soon. E-mail Name Qty ------------------------------ ----------------- --- dastar(a)crl.com Sam Ismail 4 allisonp(a)world.std.com Allison Parent 3 jeff(a)unix.aardvarkol.com Jeff Hellige 2 KFergason(a)aol.com Kelly Fergason 3 tuck6(a)ibm.net Gary Tucker 2 sinasohn(a)crl.com Roger Sinasohn 5 gram(a)cnct.com Ward Griffiths 3 bcoakley(a)teleport.com Ben Coakley 1 pcoad(a)crl.com Paul Coad 2 jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com Jim Willing 3 rcini(a)msn.com Richard Cini 3 hans1(a)filan00.grenoble.hp.com Hans Pufal 5 ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca Doug Spence 3 jott(a)maddog.ee.nd.edu John Ott 1 bwit(a)pobox.com Bob Withers 4 frank(a)5points.com Frank Peseckis 2 zmerch(a)northernway.net Roger Merchberger 3 ursa(a)idir.net ursa 4 rws(a)ais.net Richard Schauer 2 stuart(a)colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu Brian Stuart 3 jlodoen(a)mega.megamed.com Jeff Lodoen 1 s-ware(a)nwu.edu Scott Ware 3 SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com 1 jrice(a)texoma.net James Rice 3 bluesky6(a)netcom.com Benedict Chong 2 dynasoar(a)mindspring.com Kirk Scott 2 jolminkh(a)c2.telstra-mm.net.au Hans Olminkhof 2 mtapley(a)swri.edu Mark Tapley 1 scm(a)smorang.enm.maine.edu Stacy Morang 2 danjo(a)xnet.com Brett 2 haley(a)galstar.com Curtis Haley 1 george.lin(a)documentum.com George Lin 2 idavis(a)comland.com Isaac Davis 2 fmc(a)reanimators.org Frank McConnell 10 mpsayler(a)cs.utexas.edu Matthew Sayler 1 gpine(a)popmail.mcs.net Gerald Pine 2 kai(a)microsoft.com Kai Kaltenbach 2 jdgale(a)romulus.ncsc.mil Jeremiah Gale 1 tedbird(a)netcom.com Ted Birdsell 2 broswell(a)syssrc.com Bob Roswell 1 foxnhare(a)goldrush.com Larry Anderson 2 Current Total: 103 If you're not on here, better e-mail to me soon. If you tried e-mailing me and your message bounced, send it to the group discussion and you will be forgiven. If your e-mail address as shown is incorrect please send me your correct address. I also have gotten quite a bit of interest from my internet sale ad and as a result the price per each for all of you will likely be pushed down. If you don't know what the hell I'm blathering about, this is in regards to the Panasonic HandHeld computers (about 400) that we are making a deal on. It was a handheld unit which featured: 6502 processor 8K RAM (the "top-of-the-line" model) 3 slots for 8K program EPROM on-board 40-column thermal printer (paper can still be found allegedly) 26 character x 1 line display Full "QWERTY" keyboard FORTH-like language in ROM called "SNAP" Measures 9" x 3.5" These units also have: Custom built tray to hold 10 additional 8K EPROMS Tray also housed both computer and printer to make one compact unit Some MCM 68674 8K EPROMs with programs on them AC Adaptor Current price will be < $10 per unit! If you would like to reserve one (or two or three or ten), e-mail me. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 7 months

3
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Classic Video Games

by jeffh＠unix.aardvarkol.com

At 06:38 PM 7/11/97 -0700, you wrote: >When I was in high school, there was a precursor to the Lynx/Gameboy/etc. >crowd that was a football game. There were little red LED's(?) to represent >players, and you had up, down, and run buttons to control the quarter back. >It was very simplistic; you basically just ran the quarterback until you got >a touchdown (but I think you could do a fieldgoal?) Anyway, I think Radio >Shack sold one, but it may have been someone else. Yes, I remember these quite well...they made the most annoying 'blips' and 'beeps'! I don't recall who made them or what they were called, though I believe Coleco made something like it at one time. I remember they were really popular when I was in junior high, about 1979-80 or so and that the teachers must have had quite a collection of similar games the way they were always confiscating them! I also had a fairly neat blackjack handheld at about the same time. Jeff jeffh(a)unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

28 years, 7 months

2
1
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History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Neither - The first arcade videogame was Nutting & Associates Computer Space, designed by Nolan Bushnell in 1971, who later designed Pong (1972) with the profits, and founded Atari. The first home videogame was the Magnavox Odyssey 100, in 1972. The first ROM cartridge-based home video game title is co-owned by the Fairchild Channel F and the RCA Studio II, which were introduced simultaneously in 1976. The first vector graphic arcade game was Lunar Lander in 1979, followed by Asteroids later that year. The first (and only) vector graphic home video game was the GCE/Milton Bradley Vectrex in 1982. Kai > ---------- > From: PG Manney > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, July 11, 1997 6:59 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: "Bally Astrocade" > > Speaking of video games, I have 2 different sources which say that the > first video game was > > 1)Pong > 2) Asteroids. > > I personally believe asteroids, as the game (in my recollectopn, at > least) > used vector graphics, which should be faster and simpler than Pong's > raster > image. > > ...Or am I all wet? Anyone know? > > (Trivia -- What does "Pac" in Pac-man stand for? answer on request.) >

28 years, 7 months

9
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HHC

by dastar＠crl.com

A couple people have asked about shipping costs. I hadn't quite thought about it until last night. Everyone should be aware that they will be paying the shipping costs both to and from me (or whoever is a distributor). Here's the current plan: I will have all the units either sent to me or get some volunteers around the country to have a bunch of units sent to them. I am assuming Mike will not want to handle shipping to each person. I will ask but I seriously doubt it. So anyway, he's in Jersey and I'm in California, and shipping will be a maximum if all are sent to me. Therefore, I would like all the units with a west coast destination sent to me, all with a mid-west destination sent to ???, southwest destination sent to ???, east coast sent to ???, etc. From there they will be individually packed and shipped out. So therefore we get hit with double shipping charges. Shitty I know. I figure total shipping costs will be $4 for a single unit, $5 for a couple, etc. Not sure exactly. I realize the shipping costs may not be what some people bargained for so at this point I would ask that if you want to or need to back out, please do it soon. I am going to try and negotiate a lump sum for the total units that will hopefully bring the cost per unit to $7. That's what I'm shooting for. Stay tuned. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 7 months

1
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1975 PE Altair Article Scans

by rcini＠msn.com

Jim: >>Sadly it gets a bit more contorted than that... Ed Roberts sold MITS to >>Pertec (who proceeded to largely run it into the ground B^{ ), who was >>then purchased by Triumph-Adler of Germany. >>So, it can be assumed that TA now owns all of the rights to things >>MITS/Altair. I've tried to contact them on occasion on related matters >>and have gotten no response of any kind to date. Thanks for the history. One could probably claim that since the platform is no longer supported and that efforts to contact the rightful owner have failed, so long as we don't get "stupid" about it, we should be able to archive the docs...I hope. I'd hate to lose this important piece of information (although I will hold onto it and provide pages to members upon request). What a pain this copyright law is! Jim, re: the Hero 1000/2000 robots, where can I find Mobile Ed. Productions?? ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 7 months

2
1
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Classic Video Games

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Whilst in a self-induced trance, thedm (and others) happened to blather: >Sounds like Mattel Electronic Football. My friends and I were the reason >they stopped letting us take to school! damn...that was ages ago. [big snip] Coleco was mentioned... My brother had a Coleco back in the Jr / H.S. daze... which was pretty eazy to win. From what I remember, the LED's could be controlled with two brightness levels, the brighter ones were you, and the dimmer ones were the badguys. I stumbled across it about a year ago or so, while moving... Not sure if my brother or I ended up with it (---Still unpacking--- :-( ) but it still worked at last check. This is one of those things that I took apart as well... but it actually got back together and still worked! ;-) Trivia: On the Coleco, there was a 6-tone "good sound" -- touchdown, methinks. It went something like this (bad replica of staff to follow :) --------o-----o-- ----------------- -----o-----o----- ---o------------- -o--------------- Anyway, there was an episode of Hart to Hart (Robert Wagner & Stephanie Powers... remember?) that used those sounds for automatic door openers / security system at a millionaire/billionaires house... I remember hearing that, and saying so. No-one believed me until I went and got the game and started playing it... then the family was mad that I was making noise during the show! But at least I proved my point. ;^> Have fun, and get ready for my next post! See ya, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.

28 years, 7 months

2
1
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OOPS - Explorer 85 - Encyclopedia Entry

by danjo＠xnet.com

Well I forked it up! My ISP was working on an upgade and I was editing *someones* entry for the Explorer 85 on the Encyclopedia web page. Suddenly, when I saved it, Error - no free pace on device! So I thought Ok, I will just :q! OOPS it's gone! Now normally I save a copy for reference - pp back to pine - Error - OOps that's gone too! Who ever placed the page - huh - you want to email me the particulars and I will enter them??? BC

28 years, 7 months

1
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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> From: Brett <danjo(a)xnet.com> > Well, that's true. I always wondered why DEC couldn't sell PDP-11's - b > then with that lousy chip set and poor software 8-) I still get pissed > thinking about how DEC Marketing has messed up every attempt to get int > the *home* market! You're pissed! I lost my job with them because they couldn't make money >from a dimond mine! > You mean the the 7440 I have on the desk next to me? Never remembered the model number but likely, yes! > Not if you tell people about it! Drat you caught me. > You must have been - what - 8 years old 8-) Great story! I think we al I wish, I'm old enough. I finished college before the 8080 was introduced. > have one of those - where everybody kinda stares at you - wondering - > What the Hell is THAT? What are you doing with that - THING? Never happend to me. ;-) I get you have those, in there, and they all work? Allison

28 years, 7 months

2
1
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History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 11:58 AM 7/11/97 -0600, you wrote: >>playing a vector graphic arcade version of Space War when we were fresh >five buttons, 'rotate left', 'rotate right', 'thrust', 'fire', >'hyperspace'. The interesting thing was you didn't play against the Perhaps you're thinking of a later game wherein you could have two players at the same time with either separate ships, or linked ships. Sorta like asteroids in that you had to avoid/shoot various things on the screen. It had the rotate left/right buttons. There was another that used a rotating knob to control rotation; the story was it was a combat training simulation, but I can't remember the name. That was a fun one. (But I always was, and always will be, a Robotron man...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 7 months

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