- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <Intel MCS8i 8080 development system. Well, it was late in the day, my <money was running out, so I could only buy one of them. MCS8i, if it was 1972 it could only be 8008 powered as the 8080 was a few years later. Actually the MCS handle was copyrighted with the 4004. The 8008 was late 1971 and the 8080 a bit over a year later. <I picked the Intellec. And I am not sorry. Sure it's not going to make me <rich, but it is _beautiful_ inside. It came with all the manuals <(schematics and monitor source code), and contains the 8080 CPU board <(copyright 1972, which must make it a pretty early 8080 design), a couple <of 4K RAM boards, an EPROM board (1702's, of course) containing the <monitor, an I/O card, and the programmer for the 1702. The backplane bus <uses 100 pin 0.125" edge connectors, but the card has a differnt form <factor (and pinout) to S100 cards if it was the 100 pin cards (one connector it's the MCS) where the MDS was multibus with the two backplane connectors. I believe your off on the date by about two years as the 4004 was 70/71 and the 8008 was first of the 8bitters in late '71 and labeled the MCS-8 and the 8080 was the MCS-80 and the 8085 followed using the MCS-85. My references are the SIM08/mcs-8 user manual March 1973. I also I did design work with the 8008 chip in early '73. The 8080 was not available yet but the intel rep was saying "soon". It would be nearly 74 before soon arrived. On the up side yes they were constructed like minis, that was the standard of the time. Big rugged boxes that had to earn their keep. The MDS I have is partially gutted as someone pulled the power supplies out but the rest is intact and last I powered it it ran. FYI the CPU was not even branded in mine it has some odd penciled ES19-1 on the cpu(8080). I even have the correct Power One supplies to complete it( same vintage). In time they could be worth more as they are scarce(low volume production). <As regards historical interest, well, it has an IOBYTE at address 3, <divided into 4 2-bit fields that define the console, punch, reader and <list device - long before CP/M. And there's plenty more things like that. The first incantation of CPM was on an MDS-800 box and the sources for a typical bios in the cpm 1.4 and 2 manuals reflect that. IOBYTE is supported, The docs say it's implemented using the intel standard. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Free: Vax 11/750 computer

by sinasohn＠ricochet.nospam.net

I've got place to put it and no way to get it there. Maybe someone else does? In ba.market.computers, Graham Freeman <graham(a)step.mother.com> wrote: > FREE - You pick up - VAX 11/750 monster computer. Three units - >two the size of a full-size home refrigerator and another the size of an >economy clothes washer. Call or e-mail if you're interested. Units are >located in Davis, California. >Graham Freeman graham(a)madre.com >(530)753-0650 - voice (530)759-4184 - pager ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 5 months

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apollo computers?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

some guy i bought a mac video card from said he had something called an apollo workstation. he said it was a 68020/68030 with a 19 inch monitor, can run *nix, and would only want ~$50 for it. anyone heard of this machine or know anything about it? he said some local colleges used the machines for various duties but are obsolete now. david

28 years, 5 months

8
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Amiga 1000 (was:My Recent find)

by ejames＠newwave.net

At 04:48 AM 11/1/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Bruce James wrote: > >> and my latest find a Amiga 1000 with 1080 moniter and 512k memory >> anyone have more information on expansion of this computer?? > >I used an Amiga 1000 as my primary computer for six years. Beautiful >machine. The darling of my collection. :) Hi thanks Doug for the reply I am mostly looking for ways of adding more memory and a hard drive.. picked up a second 3 1/2 external drive and rs1200 modem. I need a good terminal program and Word Processer.. Also can you give me a hint on what software will work like most stuff for the a-500 or a-2000?? > I can pull out >my old manuals and magazines and see what I can dig up. Hopefully I >haven't made any errors above. :) > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca Again thanks Bruce James kb8kac tech plus ejames(a)newwave.net

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sure they would.... if the computer was better built then them, then it would break their head. If it was built worse than them, their head would only sustain minor damage!!! ---------- From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Classic Computer Rescue Squad Date: Saturday, November 08, 1997 3:18 AM At 23:18 11/7/97 +0000, you wrote: >I am conviced that a lot of people (probably not on this list) wouldn't >know a well-designed or well-built computer if it was dropped on them... Naturally not, they'd be too busy limping around howling. ____________________________________________________________ Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis!

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Now.... just for fun, try to get a modern PC, drop it on your toe (A sacrifice for science) and then watch it break into DOZENS of piece. Chip out of socket, RAM out of socket, motherboard out of case, power supply out of case, HDD crashed, disk drive not in a working condition, CD-ROM drive's laser swears that there's no disk in. They don't make 'em like they used to!!! ---------- From: Jeff Beoletto <jbeolett(a)ssi.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Classic Computer Rescue Squad Date: Saturday, November 08, 1997 6:28 PM On Sat, 8 Nov 1997, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > On Sat, 8 Nov 1997, Hotze wrote: > > > At 23:18 11/7/97 +0000, you wrote: > > >I am conviced that a lot of people (probably not on this list) wouldn't > > >know a well-designed or well-built computer if it was dropped on them... > > > > Naturally not, they'd be too busy limping around howling. > > > > I DID THAT! I DID THAT! I successfully managed to crush Jeff Beoletto's > (One of my friends) toes with > a PDP-11/44. We were trying to move it sideways. BTW, his foot healed up > quite well. And he wasn't limping around, he was curled up in a little > ball on the floor, cussing a blue streak :) A week ago we were moving the > RA81, and I almost did it again... > > > Seeing how it was me that Dan managed to drop it I can agree to the limping, and ironically enough it's the same foot that I had broken 3 times in the month before he crushed it. And just yesterday hauling a pc down to our storagge office on the 5th floor I tripped and fell down the steps and have just re-broken that very same ankle. Computers are hazerdous to your health. =+)

28 years, 5 months

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8-bit Atari's

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-11-01 22:50:14 EST, Zane Healy put forth: > I had a good day scrounging the junk stores, first chance I've had in about > two months to do any serious looking. Among the things I came up with > today were an Atari 400 and a Atari 800. No Power Supply for either > though, but then I'm used to that problem. The question is, what on earth > does it use for a PS? Can I just break out the old Atari 2600 and use it's > PS? on my ps for my atari 400 it says the output is 9v ac but im not sure if the plug is center positive or not. anyone have tapes for the 400? i have the "program recorder" but nothing to use in it. david

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> IE: altair was importnat because it was relatively cheap. < <And it spawned a bus architecture that begat the micro-computer <revolution. There is something to that but on closer inspection the SWTP, SouthWest Technical Products SS50 bus was far cheaper and much easier to interface to. The 100 pin connector was expensive and the redundant signals were/are a pain. It would take several years to sort out things like bus noise and compatability. No S100 was a bandwagon and the technology was not at issue as there were better busses and even at the current time of the altair. When IMSAI also did it nearly the same people sayw that as important enough that there were two systems with a similar bus that wasn't too bad to connect to. Now that is historically significant. When two companies compete using similar hardware or software that is when it takes significance as it just became an industry. As to spawning a revolution, no. That started when the machines became small enough and cheap enough to be attainable. I still remember in 1970 hanging out in highschool with the guys debating processor wordlength and actually developing on paper a possible sequencer for one. I could have had a CIM2000 in '72 (bout the size and performance of an 8e) for $2000! That was the price of a new ford pickup then! It was there I was in it. What it did was give us early computer hackers and engineers something useful without some of the teething cycles of homebrewery. It was also the industry cranking out components that had potential at attainable prices. I built my first logic design using a RAM (1101, 256x1) in late '71 and it was at $23 each. In a year the 2102 (1kx1) would be $16. Imagine a 1kx8 memory for $128!!! By 1974 that would be 4kx8 for under $100. This along with TTL prices dropping to pennies for a 7400 gate made assembling a pdp-8 or somesuch within reach, then the 8008 chip at $180 (over a weeks take home pay in 1972) made it come a bit closer. A year before the DEC 1974 Popular Electronics Altair article were the Radio Electronics articles for the Mark-8 a 8008 machine. So it wasn't a single event is as much the cumulations of many small events. We would get out of the basement/garage and started on the next level. Better said we stopped trying to build a machine and started doing things with it. It was an accelerator. There were many of accelerators. There would be many more, the z80 would be the next one. I also think the 16bit battles that started soon after would push the envelope some more, as did the 32bit systems. In the middle of the 8/16 battle graphics started to be seen and that pushed the CPUs harder and demanded more memory and left a huge vacuum for software. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Ehehe... We should build a computer from discrete components, just to <operate one. And connect it to the Internet. Of course, we'd never <finish in out lifetimes, and it would fill a room, but it would be awful <cool! It's been done and it didn't take lifetime or fill rooms. The machines were called LINC and they were built in 1964 time frame. Granted the internet part would take a bit longer. Over the years many home made machine not microprocessor based have been built. It is an undertaking but it's not anywhere near impossible. In reality using moden methods and current discrete parts a better and smaller machine could be built. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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This is great!

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

NS if this is true or not, but it's funny! The system programmer group writing TOPS-10 use to love fancy TECO programs and had a weekly contest for them. One guru working on FORTRAN compilers would read them carefully but never enter one. They thought he was just concentrating on compilers. Then one week he submitted a macro that did FORTRAN compilation, complete with optimization. The TECO program took days to run, but it worked. Apparently he had written a PDP-10 instruction set eumlator in TECO and fed the compiler into it!

28 years, 5 months

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VAXstation II tapes

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Hi, I seem to have a problem. I just got a VAXstation II, and it came with a whole box of TK50-K tapes. I've a bad feeling that these are blank tapes though, double bad since I'm suspecting that the system needs to be reloaded. I'll give a detailed writeup of the problems I'm having later on (I forgot to make notes when I had it powered up). The only identificaton on any of the tapes is a small white label with numbers on it. Some of the numbers on each tape are printed, others hand written. I've a bad feeling that these are simply backup tapes, in which case I don't know if they'll do me any good or not. The other possibility is that they are for something called "RS/1". If anyone can tell me what these are I'd appreciate it. Printed Hand Written ------- ------------------ 525810 5-0-0 41 525865 6-0-0 (a crossed out 96 with 117 under it) 525869 19-0-1 21 525871 10-1-0 23 525952 9-0-0 81 525959 1-0-0 70 525993 9-0-1 75 526044 23-2-0 57 Since I assume these aren't the VMS distribution tapes, does anyone know how I can get them? I'm aware of the Hobbiest License for OpenVMS, but I think it's to new of a version to run on my VAXstation II/RC. There is also the problem with the Hobbiest version of it comes on CD-ROM. All the OS manuals that I've got are for MicroVMS/VMS 4.4 Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 5 months

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BA23 termination.

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

Does the BA23 have a bus terminator in it or something? I just noticed that neither of these (11/73 or 11/83) have Qbus terminators.

28 years, 5 months

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DEC Rainbow

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

I just bought a DEC Rainbow, does anyone have any idea where I can get a boot disk for it? Thanks Charlie Fox

28 years, 5 months

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Auction - Apple Service Parts and a Modem

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

Hello, This is the last of the Apple service parts I have. They're on the auction at eBay so please bid there. Apple IIc Floppy Drive (New in Box!) Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 11/13/97, 15:08:00 PST http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1751182 Macintosh SE Main Logic Board (New in Box!) Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 11/13/97, 15:12:56 PST http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1751290 Apple Imagewriter II CPU Board (Orig Box!) Current bid: $1.00 Auction ends on: 11/13/97, 15:16:50 PST http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1751366 Mac II Power Supply (Orig Box!) Current bid: $5.50 Auction ends on: 11/13/97, 15:19:27 PST http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1751413 Laserwriter II DC Power Supply (Orig Box!) Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 11/13/97, 15:21:57 PST http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1751470 Apple Modem 1200 (1982, Original Box) Pic Bidding starts at: $3.00 Auction ends on: 11/14/97, 18:08:07 PST http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1787149

28 years, 5 months

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PC/AT reference

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:33 PM 11/6/97 -0500, you wrote: >I wonder how many non - PC compatibles have used Intel 8088 or 8086 chips. I >have heard of a machine called an "ACT Apricot", which is said to have had >voice recognition and a GUI. Could someone tell me about it and others? My >reasoning is that there are lots of neat things that could be done on an >8088, but not with a DOS system. One of the first computer jobs I had was running* a CompuPro 8/16 under MP/M-16(?). It was an S-100 box with 5 or so terminals. I forget what it originally had as a processor but we upgraded shortly after I arrived to a 80286/8085 dual processor CPU board. *Note: this system was so rock solid and self-sustaining that I'm grossly exagerating here. I wrote some programs, did some data entry, and turned it on/shut it down. Piece of cake. P.S., I stumbled across a site that might offer insight into this question. It's at <http://www.mygale.org/08/samurai/> and offers a listing of computers by microprocessor (as well as other ways). Only problem is it's in french. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 5 months

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Here's the QD21 Manual

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Daniel: Attached is the QD21 manual in a gzipped tar archive format. If you need ASCII I'll resend it. Kevin At 10:52 AM 97/11/08 -0600, you wrote: >On Sat, 8 Nov 1997, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > >> Yep, you need one. You can use a standard PC cable and ignore the twisted >> connector, or simply cut and resolder the twisted portion. This works for me. > >I already have a straight-through. > >> >> Here's the plan. Get the drive specs from the IBM web site (this will be >> tough, their sites are, in my experience, very hard to navigate), and grab >> a copy of the QD21 manual that explains each of the required parameters. >> There are copies available online, I can email it to you if necessary. >> > >Email would be good, I've tried looking for the manual but had no luck >finding it. > >> Boot your machine to the chevron prompt, then start up the QD21 firmware. >> Hopefully you'll have the "newer" menu driven version, if not then you'll >> have to set up some tables in memory as described in the manual. >> > >I do have the menus. I can get that far. > >> The QD21 has a "read disk parameters from device" setting, I'd try that >> first to see if it works for your drive. I've have mixed success with >> non-DEC drives on this one. If it works then you're away to the races, just >> format from the QD21 menus and then INIT DUxx from VMS or whatever's on >> your VAX. > >VAX? The QD21 is in a PDP-11/23+. > >> >> If not then you'll have to enter a bunch of parameters from the drive >> specs, plus some that you can calculate from the specs as stated in the >> manual. >> > >OK > >> The drive select jumper on the drive must generally be set to "drive select >> 2". If you're getting no response this may be the problem. The cable must >> not be of the twisted variety. Make sure your cable polarity is right, etc. >> etc. >> >> I have had success with IBM ESDI drives and the QD21, just keep fiddling >> and you'll get it going! > >That's the usual plan... > >> I hope this helps, > >If you really have the manual, it will! > > > >

28 years, 5 months

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Huh?!

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

At 00:02 08-11-97 PST, Tim Shoppa intoned (in response to Dan Seagraves): >I'm going to make a guess that you're talking about DEC RX33 (5.25" >half-height drives) or DEC RX50 drives (two 5.25" drives in a full-height >5.25" form factor) hooked to a RQDX3 controller. If you can specify >that you're talking about one or the other, you'll get more specific >answers :-) <snip> >A RQDX3 is incapable of formatting RX50 floppies, but it is capable <snip> Excuse me, but this does not make sense to me. I have an RX50 and RQDX3 in my MicroVAX II, and it is perfectly happy formatting RX50 floppies. How do you think I got that wonderful tape copying program onto the hard drive? ;-) For my part, Tim, I'd be very disappointed if you unsubscribed from the list. I value your insights very much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Ok, first of all I'm pretty amazed at the 3rd grade level of <> mentality being demonstrated by the whiners complaining about my <> "foul" language. Sam, it's not a big thing but there are a few women and I for one really don't like it. I'm no prude and there are time I can turn the air blue but I try to avoid it unless there is pain associated with it. < There's more to a machine that makes it historically important <than how many were sold or produced. Was the STRETCH important (a <half dozen or so)? How about the PDP-10 (under a thousand)? Mass <marketing is not the gauge of importance, especially in a social <context. Remember - the individuals who designed the machines that <_were_ mass marketed were brought up knowing about computers, and <those machines most certainly weren't mass-market devices. I for one see the imporant machine as those that influenced the direction of computing. This could be by putting computers where they werent before or by introducing/solidifying a concept. IE: altair was importnat because it was relatively cheap. IE: the PC was impostant be cause IBMs entry in to the market that was dominated by TRS-80, APPLE and friends somehow ligitemized destop sized computer to the masses. < Whether Novas are "wanted" is immaterial to the argument. Folks are <now virtually unaware of a piece of history, and an important one at <that. It's also a piece of history that's fast disappearing, which is <a rotten shame. That is the point! < Do multi-thousand dollar speculative prices on Altairs make them <more "historic" or "valuable" than a PDP-5 (predecessor of the -8)? <There's more to be calculated into a "value" than the current market <price, which all too frequently is out of line with reality. People miss the Mark-8 (8008 based) that preceeded it by nearly a year. < Nope. Nobody did. That's one of the reasons I have respect for <the man. He knows machines worth saving, and is willing to take the <time and (not incosiderable) effort to do so. Right! To make a point there are few machines with much value other than history. Those that collect are like archiologists, few will discover the missing link but the rest will flesh out history surrounding it. It's that history, the society, hackers, scientists that are important. <> If the majority of kids in America had a picture of a Nova tacked to <> their wall, the newspapers might have run a story on one. < < Do you know who I'm speaking of? Hint: he designed one of the early <mass-market computers that you prize so highly. What's missed is many Novas were used in places like malls to make T-shirts with pictures on them (at least in the northeast). They were there on the bottom shelf doing it. This was at a time when altair, Imsai and apples were the thing. The altair... I have one. My opinion of the design is simple, it can serve well as an example of how not to do it. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Hard drive jumper settings required.

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I'm not sure about the actual jumper settings, but if you have web access, I would check out http://www.computercraft.com for more info. They have everything from benchmarks to how to upgrade a 486. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Daniel A. Seagraves <dseagrav(a)bsdserver.tek-star.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Hard drive jumper settings required. Date: Monday, November 03, 1997 4:44 PM I'm going to attach this to the QD21, so I need to reset the jumpers. IBM 115MB ESDI drive, type 0669, sequence # 104040108 There are 6 DIP switched behind the drive terminator. I'm told I have to use a straight-through cable, so I went and got one. The drive does nothing. With a crossover cable (Where the pins are crossed, a normal PC cable) it went click-clunk, click-clunk, and did nothing. The drive is known good. (I pulled it from a PS/2 which we upgraded to a SCSI drive) If anyone works at Advanced Technology Services, the drive came from Cat origionally and has the ATS sticker "ATS-444862" Another barcode on top of the drive by the air inlet says "B1AF3092241"

28 years, 5 months

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Intergraph 250... KILLED!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I was at an auction last Saturday, and immediatly started to drool over <this beautiful piece of equipment. It was an Intergraph 250 (No, I have <never seen one before) and it look to be in excellent shape. It was about <top 7 feet wide, by about 3 feet deep, and 5 feet high, with a beautiful <blue and white finish. On one side, behind a large black panel, was four Sounds like a Intergraph/DEC 8650 or in that realm that was from the mid '80s. Intergraph would take DEC machines and add their stuff to it to make hopped up machines for their business applications. The drives were SMD and the controller was of Intergraph design. Nice machine and there are a bunch around in use. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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M8190 Console SLU

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

Is there a way to disable the M8190 console SLU so as to use another serial in it's place? The bulkhead adapter for the SLU has been cannabalized to fix another machine, and I want to get this one running. I have the DLV-11J that was in my 11/23, I plan to use it. Any ideas?

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> <Ever read, say, _Soul of a New Machine_? <> <> Good read, still have my copy! <> <Me too. But I've also got a hard-cover now! I was given mine when it was first releassed and is hard cover. <<This prompted me to dig up a Nov 81 copy of a mag called Datamation <whose feature article was a history of the Route 128 companies and a <companion piece "Rte128's new Wave Startups" which included Apollo, <Stratus, SOLV-vation, and the 'revamped"Charles River Data Systems.. <The push was on to 32bit and Data General was offering it"s <"brand-new" medium-priced supermini,the MV 6000 whose price was on Therein lies a peice of the story. From 79 to recent I and friends worked for companies involved in the 128 race. It's amazing how few are left and how different some are. < Another "cute" blurb, "CP/M-86 is the 16 bit version of the de facto <industry standard microcomputer operating system, CPM. Once a user <slips the 8-inch floppy containing CPM-86 into a (IBM) Displaywriter, <an entirely new world of data processing will open up on the typist's <desk." Sounds almost pornographic. ; ^ )) Call that a snapshot in time before the PC explosion. What I miss is hearing about Honeywell, RCA, Univac, Borroughs and Sperry to name a few here in the USA where it started. There are machines that were unique than and by standards now made by these companies. A example is the RCA machines from what little I know were patterned after the TX series of mit. I'd love to hear more. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Intergraph 250... KILLED!

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Sat, 08 Nov 1997 02:38:31 -0300, Mr. Richards made the following statements: > I have to tell you all about the sad fate of a beautiful machine. > [...] It was an Intergraph 250 [...] > I want to add to my misery by finding out exactly what it was, what > it's speed was, what it was comparable to. The brains of the machine were a MicroVAX II (KA630-AA). Disks were primarily Fujitsu 8" Winchester drives controlled by an Inter- graph proprietary controller called an "InterBus File Processor". A SCSI tape drive was standard on the 250, also of Fujitsu manufacture if I recall correctly. A nice enough little box, but hobbled for the hobbyist community by the proprietary controller for which no schematics of firmware listings will _ever_ be available from Intergraph. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 5 months

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CP/M for Osborne-1

by Anthony.Eros＠digital.com

I picked up an Osborne-1 last night, but no software. Is anyone willing to cut me a copy of some 5 1/4" CP/M operating system and utility disks? I'd gladly replace the disks supplied... Thanks in advance, -- Tony Eros Internet Consultant - Financial/Pharma Services Practice Digital Equipment Corporation

28 years, 5 months

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Space problems and Laser 128ex

by alanr＠morgan.ucs.mun.ca

I wondering if anyone had any info on the Laser 128ex. I lugged an EGA monitor to a friend of mine this week with the intentions of trading it for a couple of hard drives, as I really need to clear some space (two bedroom apartment, and I'm sleeping on a loveseat in the living room). Anyway, when I got down there, I noticed the Laser on a shelf. I have never heard of this machione before, so of course I had to have it right then and there :) It resembles an Apple//c in layout; CPU, keyboard and 5 1/4" floppy in one unit. As a bonus, the power supply I got with it also fits, my Apple//c. I also noticed that on the bottom, there is a switch for LCD screen. The similarities between this and the Apple makes me wonder if this wasn't some sort of copy. Does anyone have any ideas about this machine, specificaly I would like to know how to break into the BASIC. On the Apple, I press CRTL and reset, but this doesn't work on the Laser. I would appreciate any help. Thanks in advance... ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ----------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 5 months

2
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Computer collecting humor.

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Tim Hotze wrote: > Also, 88 (8088), 87 (487, 8087, etc.) and many other numbers. With macs, > there's a whole slew of numbers that I don't want to get into. Riccardo quoted Tony Duel as having written: > >Which reminds me. Which word lengths have been used by (binary) computers? > >Off the top of my head : > > > >4 (Intel 4004, etc) > >8 (Far too many to list) > >12 (PDP8, PDP12, etc) > ..omissis... > >What others? > > 9 (Texas 99/4, 990/10, TMS 9900) > 86 (Intel Docet again) I think some of you have misinterpreted Tony's question. He was asking about word lengths. I do not believe that the Texas 99 series had a word length of 9 bits (16 wasn't it?) The Intel 8088 was 8 bits, the 8086 16; the 80x87, as I recall, are 80 bits internally (another one for your list, Tony, if coprocessors count!) I believe that there are some CPU chips now with 64-bit internal buses. Any advance on 64? At the other end, do the processors in the AMT DAP count as 1-bit machines? Or are they bit-slices of a 32 bit machine? Or a 1024 bit machine? Philip.

28 years, 5 months

4
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Intergraph 250... KILLED!

by alanr＠morgan.ucs.mun.ca

I have to tell you all about the sad fate of a beautiful machine. I was at an auction last Saturday, and immediatly started to drool over this beautiful piece of equipment. It was an Intergraph 250 (No, I have never seen one before) and it look to be in excellent shape. It was about 6 top 7 feet wide, by about 3 feet deep, and 5 feet high, with a beautiful blue and white finish. On one side, behind a large black panel, was four large, rack mounted drives; 2 were 557mb, and the other 2 were 337mb. I believe the drives were old SCSI drives. On the other side, was a large reel tape backup system, and below that, the guts of the machine behind another black panel. Everything look to be there, and in working order. Now for the sad part. It went for $2.50 (Converted to US, that is like -$0.45 :) The person who bought it... some low, greasy guy with the name of his autobody shop on his greasy ball cap (no, I didn't bid on it, I have no place to put it) my friend asked him what he was going to do with it, and you could tell by looking at the guy that he couldn't wait to try out a new cutting saw on the thing, according to my friend (I was busy banging my head agianst the wall :< It is dead by now, and now I want to add to my misery by finding out exactly what it was, what it's speed was, what it was comparable to. Anybody out there know? ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ----------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 5 months

1
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STuff

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I'm interested in the 386's. ---------- From: Zeus334(a)aol.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: STuff Date: Saturday, November 08, 1997 4:36 AM >have a bunch of wyse 60 terminals, a couple of 386's, an old printer >and various boards etc. Anyone interested. >"Janet Paganelli" <info(a)msnyc.org> What's a wyse 60? What kind of boards do you have? Is it a dot matrix printer?

28 years, 5 months

1
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Old stuff

by Zeus334＠aol.com

In a certain supply room, there are in storage some computers of interest to me. There used to be some XTs and PCs, but they were given to a school. The stuff that's still there: A ton of printers, generally IBM dot-matrix A ton of manuals and books, including manuals to Quattro-Pro, the manuals to some of the IBM printers, etc. Also, books on C and pascal A few cartons of floppies, with the original disks to DOS 3.3, and a bunch of programs I have never heard of. About 15 IBM network cards. I can't tell what they are, but they are brown full- length eight bit things with round connectors on the back. An IBM System/74, with three terminals. I believe that the administration will part with all of these without much difficulty. I could personally use the first 4 items. The System/74 is about the size of a closet, and I doubt I would find much use for it (If only I had room...) I know nothing about it, and I would appreciate if you people would tell me what the heck a System/74 is. It has a big floppy drive (14" or 8") built in to the front panel, mounted on its side.....

28 years, 5 months

2
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Computer collecting humor.

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>> I have at home a memory bank from a CDC Cyber two-hundred-and-something >> (?) which is 18 bits wide. I had always assumed that this was 16 bits >> plus two parity but it doesn't fit into 60 bits either way. (Memory >> bank is huge quantities of 40ns and 45ns 64k x 1 static RAMs surface >> mounted on both sides of numerous daughter boards. Each daughter board >> is 64k x 18 and they stack four deep all over the "mother board" of the >> bank.) I always meant to use this in something, but somehow I never got >> around to it... > > That is perhaps from one of the Cyber 203/205/215 supercomputers. These > were HUGE vector machines, from the same period (and a rival of) the later > Cray-1s. They were 60 bit machines, so I am confused about the x18 > organization. Perhaps error checking was involved. This one was thrown out by the Technical University of {better not say where} in 1993. Not very old - date code on some of the memory chips is 1992. My friend, a student there, whom I visited in August of that year, had eight of these memory banks, eight megabytes each (64k x 2 bytes x four boards deep x sixteen stacks per bank). I swapped him a Keithley 417k electrometer (a very sensitive multimeter) for mine. He also threw in a card from the CPU, which I think I've mentioned here before. The technology is 100k series ECL so should have been faster than Cray 1. (The Cray 1 in the {museum of same town} was 10k series.)

28 years, 5 months

3
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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Absolutely true. I do hope that the "classiccmp" mailing list doesn't <go in the direction that Sam suggests, i.e. limiting discussion to <computers considered "collectible" in the popular press. Yes there are many machines that are quite interesting but aren't sexy by the LA times standard. I will not argue that altair, Imsai, Apple, tandy and IBM to name a few weren't povital. I may add that most of those names do not attract my attention as I know some of the backroads and alleys where I did application engineering and design work. Maybe that's why I have an intel Intellect MDS 8080 development system that is circa 1976 manufacture and of vastly superior construction than the altair. <That reminds me, Allison, I've got a couple of Motorola 6800 Exorcisor <boards that I promised to try to sneak in through US Customs for you... When they arrive I will be thankful. Allison

28 years, 5 months

4
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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Thu, 6 Nov 1997 14:03:12 -0800 (PST), we heard Mr. Ismail utter: > The Nova will never be featured in the newspapers because it is not a > socially significant computer. Two words, one of which is not printable, but the lead-in is "Bull". The Nova was one of the early minicomputers which came to be used by schools in the early '70s. The other one, and slightly earlier in origin, was the PDP-8. The pdp11 post-dates these by some time. The Nova was a seminal machine even if it was a "widened/en- hanced" PDP-8. One of the founders of Apple, who lots of those here hold in very high esteem, was captivated enough by the Nova to keep a picture of one tacked to his bedroom wall. (Kids, sheesh! :-) ) > In the great scheme of things, it is but one of many. So are lots of things, including many of the machines manu- factured in the last two decades. Like the TRS-80, the Apple II, the Commodore <whatever>, the ubiquitous PeeCee, and, yes, even the revered IMSAI. > Drop the rant already. Yes. Please do. There's more to life than microprocessors and tiny boxes. Of course, I may have been trolled here, but if that's the case I'll learn to deal with it. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 5 months

5
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STuff

by Zeus334＠aol.com

>have a bunch of wyse 60 terminals, a couple of 386's, an old printer >and various boards etc. Anyone interested. >"Janet Paganelli" <info(a)msnyc.org> What's a wyse 60? What kind of boards do you have? Is it a dot matrix printer?

28 years, 5 months

2
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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by engine＠chac.org

At 23:18 11/7/97 +0000, you wrote: >I am conviced that a lot of people (probably not on this list) wouldn't >know a well-designed or well-built computer if it was dropped on them... Naturally not, they'd be too busy limping around howling. ____________________________________________________________ Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis!

28 years, 5 months

1
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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by engine＠chac.org

At 23:13 11/7/97 +0000, you wrote: >A true story.... I was at a radio rally (hamfest) about 7 years ago, and >there was an Altair on sale, and alongside it....there was an >Intel MCS8i 8080 development system. Well, it was late in the day, my >money was running out, so I could only buy one of them. > >I picked the Intellec. And I am not sorry. Sure it's not going to make me >rich, but it is _beautiful_ inside. Damn, Tony, I always knew you had taste! __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 5 months

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imagewriter I available.

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

Ive got a non working imagewriter model I available for cost of shipping from NC if anyone wants it. i've the original box to ship it in, although the packing material is missing. printer is complete except for plastic top cover, and it gets power, but wont print. i think it's probably some logic component inside which has failed. i have a wide carriage model to keep anyway. interested? david

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by engine＠chac.org

At 21:00 11/6/97 -0500, you wrote: >Maybe that's why I have an intel Intellec MDS 8080 development system >that is circa 1976 manufacture and of vastly superior construction than >the Altair. Damn right, pop a case on an Intellec and you'll just sigh. They're like little minis inside. You know what else is just as nice the same way? The Tektronix boxes built around the LSI-11.... It's like having a '56 or '57 Mercedes. The whole world knows how sexy and pricey a 300SL is, be it the Gullwing or the roadster; but it takes a _real_ connoisseur to appreciate, even to recognize! the same year's 300SC. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 5 months

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RDWhatever floppies.

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

WHat kind of floppies does an RD-53 (? Is that it?) expect? I've dropped in 360s and 1.2Ms, but all it does when I tell it format is pull the head in and out, in and out, like bad sector error. It this like RX02s where they need some wierd format before they work? BTW, I tried imaging the harddisk already, but my XT doesn't like the drive for some reason. These are just standard MFM drives, right?

28 years, 5 months

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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Thu, 6 Nov 1997 19:10:21 -0500 (EST), Mr. Donzelli was heard to say: > [...] military electronics has always been way ahead of what the > industry [...] like spread spectrum communications (incidently, > invented by the most unlikely of people) [...] Thank you! My faith has been restored. How many can name the individual in question? Hint: The name appeared in a fairly recent "Invention & Technology" issue. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 5 months

2
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Hard Drive Bible

by manney＠nwohio.com

I 'd like to commend and thank Matt Pritchard for shipping the Hard Drive Bibles. I know he went to a lot of trouble to purchase, pack and ship several heavy volumes...and asked no profit for himself. If he ever needs a favor, I hope everyone will bend over backwards to help him! Thanks, Mr. Pritchard, manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sam, that was very uncalled for. Any problems that you have could have been solved in a gentlemanly manner, ceretainly witout resulting to this level of language! ---------- From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)northernway.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Classic Computer Rescue Squad Date: Friday, November 07, 1997 6:48 PM ;-) Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Sam Ismail said: >Now, when the f**k did I say that? [snip] >Otherwise, pull your head from out of your a**, Tim. [snip] Geez, Sam! Take a [Choose One] (Valium / Prozac), wouldya??? Tho Tim may have talked out of turn (I'm not judging either way), does it really warrant talk of this nature? And if it does, could you keep the _extreme_ profanity to private e-mail? I'm no saint myself, but others may become highly offended with this type of abusive crap... Just MHO, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch(a)northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within?

28 years, 5 months

2
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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by jfoust＠threedee.com

On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Of course, because DG Novae haven't been featured in the _LA Times_ > or the _Chicago Tribune_, nobody wants them. The instant they are > featured, all sorts of lusers will start crawling out and insisting > they *need* a Nova, price is no object, just like happened with my > Altair's, IMSAI's, and Apple I's. Oh, and Tim will be very sad on that day indeed, and in his generous nature will open up the warehouse to all those who've spotted his old post on this mailing list, and will not raise the price from "take them away" to $10,000 each. :-) - John

28 years, 5 months

2
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Software for Heathkit H-11/11a?

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

I had an Heathkit H-11a computer drop into my lap (somewhat literally) last night, and it got me to thinking... It's probably time to try to get one of these things running in its original configuration (vs. the Dec cards in the Heath chassis config.), so it looks like I need to track down some copies of the original Heath (mutated Dec) software for the thing... (i.e. HT-11, etc...) I've got most of the paper tapes for the H-11 so I think I'm ok there, and I've got a H-27 disk sub-system for the thing, so now I seek the software on disk. Anyone out there have spares or a functional unit that can replicate??? And... Does anyone remember the specific differences between the H-11 and H11a? (if any aside from the obvious addition of a third switch on the front panel?) (still seeking that elusive H-10 tho...) Thanks! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by engine＠chac.org

At 15:02 11/7/97 +0300, you wrote: >Yeah, I'm mostly interested in collecting micros, but I forget how big >minis are.... They vary. There are rack-mount minis, like an HP 2115 or some of the smaller DG's, that you can pick up singlehanded, although you won't love yourself for it. On the other end, our SDS 930 -- 14 racks, 5.5 tons probably counting spares and docs -- is just the size that some people, including me, call it a small mainframe, and some call it a mini. A PDP-1, to take another example, is absolutely a mini, but if you add a Fastrand (drum) and a goodly squad of tape drives, you have a fairly imposing computer. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I'd like a Nova, but I've so far not been courageous enough to think <seriously about moving one from Vancouver to Montreal. :) I'm embarressed to say that I live about 8 miles from DG and have had little contact with any of their machines. You don't see them here around fleas much either. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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PC/AT reference

by manney＠nwohio.com

I think I have one, but without the disks. Is this OK? -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> To: Manney <Manney> Date: Wednesday, November 05, 1997 7:22 AM Subject: PC/AT reference > Not yet a classic, but does anyone have a {spare} copy of the "Technical >Reference Personal Computer AT"? This is the tech ref guide for the original >IBM PC/AT, published by IBM (I'm guessing in a gray fabric binder). > > TIA! > >Rich Cini/WUGNET ><rcini(a)msn.com> > Charter ClubWin! Member > MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > > > > > >

28 years, 5 months

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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Yes, I suppose, but it also shows that the computers were not the real <cutting edge, The programming however was! The MMC had the disk completely wiped and even the timing tracks were gone. <like crypto and countermeasures gear. If it were the <absolute best, cutting edge technology, it would have been shredded <(literally - I have seen the end results). That's the point. The crypto and contermeasures stuff it was not the parts but the general designs that had to be hid. After all we didn't want it known how to encode or decode a cypher or jam a particular radar as everyone could do it. Often it was not so much the hardware but the underlying concepts. With computers the real advances were being made in the commercial and university spaces as that's the users that pushed for it or were experimenting with different approaches. If anything the military was the winner as they got to use it after the fact incorperating it into their systems. Generally the loss is that we didn't get to see how Purple or Enigma worked. But I do have a great article from the late 50s about how The radar display system was linked to the Sage system. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yeah, I'm mostly interested in collecting micros, but I forget how big minis are. But if anyone has anything, that would be great. And how much does a Nova weigh? A DG? The whole package? TIA, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Doug Spence <ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Classic Computer Rescue Squad Date: Friday, November 07, 1997 1:26 PM On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Not a problem. I can get you a Nova 4 CPU+chassis, a DG terminal, a > 6045 14" disk drive, controller, and pack, and a 9-track tape drive, > all hooked together and running DG RDOS. How much space would a system like this take, and what kind of power is required to feed it? :) > Of course, because DG Novae haven't been featured in the _LA Times_ > or the _Chicago Tribune_, nobody wants them. The instant they are > featured, all sorts of lusers will start crawling out and insisting > they *need* a Nova, price is no object, just like happened with my > Altair's, IMSAI's, and Apple I's. I'd like a Nova, but I've so far not been courageous enough to think seriously about moving one from Vancouver to Montreal. :) I know nothing about minis. My entire collection consists of (generally very common) micros, and I'd almost be afraid to let a mini in the house in case something goes wrong. (My conscience does not handle damaging classic computer equipment well.) > Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca

28 years, 5 months

1
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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The Minuteman missle computers were not the cutting edge and not very <secret. After all, they did end up on the surplus market without requiring <demil In 1971 is was nothing new but it's design was in the early 60s where is was state of the art. The fact that it declassified and sold as junk ten years later shows how fast things moved in that ten year span. As we moved forward in ten year spans we see different amount of technolical hops. Comparing the MMC to the PDP-8I shows that. The -8 was easily 1/4 the size and power and easily 10x faster. As to the use of computes for nav, that's likely the oldest use. The use I refer to was the targeting and tracking computer which relied on the navigation. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>Maybe that's why I have an intel Intellec MDS 8080 development system What's significant is it was one of several used by the terminals and printers engineering at DEC to develope the VT100! <little minis inside. You know what else is just as nice the same way? Th <Tektronix boxes built around the LSI-11.... I've seen a few of them but the LSI-11 itself wasn't built poorly either. I have a few Q-bus PDP-11s. That was the point of the multibus design used in the MDS. They defined and created a distinct bus that was robust. The MDS box was the start of that that line (multibus cards) as well. <It's like having a '56 or '57 Mercedes. The whole world knows how sexy an <pricey a 300SL is, be it the Gullwing or the roadster; but it takes a It may be but when it's a particular one with a known history then there is more to it. Allison

28 years, 5 months

1
0
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RSX-11M and a PDP-11/73

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

I got both. The 73 runs, but I have no idea what to do with RSX11M. Can anyone help me out? It may not be a full RSX system. It's version 4.1

28 years, 5 months

3
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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Are you saying that, 10 years ago, the military had machines that could car <out calculations with the speed of a Pentium II -300? (I hesitate to mentio <the Alpha 5-433, because I think the alpha project was originally funded b <the military) No! the military had the best available technology of the time and only for applications that needed it. However P-II or alpha level perfomance was hard to come by ten years ago as that was your BIG cray and CDC type machines. Actually much of military technology was super rugged and not always the most modern. The computer(s) for F16 fly by wire are not very exotic save for they are absolutely fault tolerent, after all an error there can kill the pilot and destroy the aircraft at the maximum or cause a mission abort at the minimum. I say this as in the 71-72 time frame I had a friend that was a computer hacker and was able to get the then surplus Minuteman missle computers. Compared to the PDP-8I we both knew it was terrible! All transistor, no core (it used a 65kw disk for all storage). It was a major programming challenge to make it do anything even though it was in pristine condition. My understanding is a similar computer was used in the Intruder fighter/bomber which was then the current military inventory. Allison Alpha was not funded by military or even military business which formed only a small part of total DIGITAL bisiness. Alpha was DEC trying to figure what they could do to out VAX their VAX. The basic design had to address three problems, bigger numbers, super huge memories and indexes than might fit in 32bits and a need for more speed than even the most scaled and piplined vax could deliver.

28 years, 5 months

2
1
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Franklin ACE

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

If anyone lives in the northern N.J. area and can help this person out, please contact him and copy me. > >I have a number of 5.25 disks that were created on a Franklin. They > >contain the memoirs of my late Uncle. The computer is no longer > >available. How can I access the information on these disks? >>I live in Wyckoff, NJ (Bergen County -about 15 miles from NY). I have >>not a clue what type of software was used. Can they be converted to >>Word, Wordperfect, or Prowrite? The subject of his message was ACE 2200. I have a working ACE 2200, and ACE Writer software, but I prefer not to have him risk his disks in the mail ("the truth and the first Altair are still out there"). This is one of the reasons I collect computers. Again if you can help him copy me too. The address is David Merdler <saxon12(a)bellatlantic.net> ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! =========================================

28 years, 5 months

1
0
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PC/AT reference

by Zeus334＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-11-05 11:54:09 EST, you write: << Speaking of reference manuals, does anyone have any information / insights into a Visual Technologies Commuter? Manf in 1984, it uses two Intel chips (8086 and 8088) with a plethora of RAM chips not to mention at least four program subroutines. The manufacturer seems to have disowned this particular unit since two people in their tech department have not heard of it. Thanks in advance Sam >> I wonder how many non - PC compatibles have used Intel 8088 or 8086 chips. I have heard of a machine called an "ACT Apricot", which is said to have had voice recognition and a GUI. Could someone tell me about it and others? My reasoning is that there are lots of neat things that could be done on an 8088, but not with a DOS system.

28 years, 5 months

1
0
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RSX-11M and a PDP-11/73

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

I got both, but I have no idea of what to do with RSX11M. Anyone care to help?

28 years, 5 months

1
0
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classic computer manuals

by Zeus334＠aol.com

I have the Commodore 64C manuals, and some disks. I also have the Commodore 64 Programmers' guide. I could probably get some manuals and disks for an Apple II, as well. I am not in the habit of shipping, though. __________________________________________________________ Original Message: Hi, I am a collector and classic enthusiast. I'm looking for copies of the original operating manuals for the following computers: Amiga 1000 Apple ][ plus Apple //e Apple //e Platinum Commodore 64 Apple DuoDisk Apple Disk II I also need original boot and os disks for these computers. If you have such materials, and they are in good-excellent condition, please email me at: mark(a)cyberlightstudios.com, and we can work out a price. I'd be very anxious to obtain these documents, particularly the Apple specific manuals. Thanks again, Mark

28 years, 5 months

1
0
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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by engine＠chac.org

At 12:40 11/6/97 -0800, you wrote: >....all sorts of lusers will start crawling out and insisting >they *need* a Nova, price is no object, just like happened with my >Altair's, IMSAI's, and Apple I's. Apple I's, like, _plural_?? __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 5 months

2
1
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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Does anyone have any systems that they could sell me? Anything... all I've got is an XT that dosn't work. ---------- From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Classic Computer Rescue Squad Date: Thursday, November 06, 1997 8:45 PM > > After signing up for the Classic Computer Rescue Squad, I started > > thinking, if a big old machine actually needed a rescue, what > > would we do? I mean, maybe we should collect info on how big > > these old things are, in terms of floor-space, tonnage, time to > > dismantle, and so on. My recommendation is to get a truck with a lift-gate, especially if you don't have real loading docks at each end of the journey. A substantial amount of time and effort is saved if you can simply move entire racks onto the truck rather than having to unwire all the boxes and remove them from each rack. A liftgate that can handle the two- or three-bay racks is even better. I've made many rescues without liftgates, and usually I regret it! Moving 5000+ lbs of stuff with only a heavy-duty applicance dolly and a ramp wears you out quite quickly! Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad <delurk>

by prp＠hf.intel.com

> From: Bill Yakowenko <yakowenk(a)cs.unc.edu> >... > After signing up for the Classic Computer Rescue Squad, I started > thinking, if a big old machine actually needed a rescue, what > would we do? I mean, maybe we should collect info on how big > these old things are, in terms of floor-space, tonnage, time to > dismantle, and so on. Then, when a rescue call comes in, we > could maybe decide if we can feasibly deal with it, and if anyone > actually wants the thing. If only three guys show up to dismantle > 200 tons of vacuum tubes, it isn't gonna happen on-schedule. And > it's one thing to keep a mini in a corner, but not all of us can > arrange space for, say, a 360. So there are legitimate (if sad) > reasons that we might have to pass up a find. There are a small number of serious collectors and at least one museum who will make space for a big machine, depending on what it is. Any vacuum tube machine and most discrete transistor machines are a no-brainer, someone will want them. They are extremely rare and will in essentially all cases have been dismantled already. More recent machines may or may not be worth saving. In all cases with a big installation make sure there will be a home for it before carrying through with a rescue. Except for a few enormous installations like SAGE or Harvest, all gone now, a large mainframe will consist of (or can be taken apart into) no more than 10 large units each of which should fit in a medium size freight elevator. (Cray's are an exception, the CPU won't come apart.) There will also be a larger number of smaller peripherals such as disk drives, tape drives, console, printer, maybe card machines. One or two people can disassemble and pack a modern (e.g. IBM 370 series) air cooled mainframe in one (long) day. Other cases could take longer but generally not more than a week. More people is not necessarily a good thing. Some machines will benefit from specialized help from the manufacturer or a rigger or specialty moving crew. Always save all the documentation and software you can get. Paul

28 years, 5 months

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by engine＠chac.org

At 17:44 11/5/97 -0800, you wrote: >Bill Yakowenko wrote: >> Hey all. I think its about time I de-lurk and introduce myself. >>.... >> We had a couple SwTPC 6800 systems in my high school way back when, >> and I'd love to see one again (or own one!). > >Hi Bill, welcome to the list! BTW, what is SSB stuff? I think of SSB as >Single-Side Band.... Smoke Signal Broadcasting, SS50-bus micros -- SS50 was like oversize Molex. I also wanted to say that, Bill, that was very elegant of you; I can't remember having seen a properly executed <delurk> in years. The Net today has no time for the little graces. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 5 months

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Hit the jackpot

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Hello to all Had a pretty slow week last week only a few finds will later in week. Today I got a box load of SYM-1's somewere betweeen 15 and 20 of them. I still have not unpacked all the goodies I got today. After I count them and look them over I will offer them for trade or sale. I also got something called a IVS TRUMPCARD 500 by Interactive Video System and have no idea what it is, any help out there ? A copy of Disk Manager MAC in the box with manuals for .07. Apple Writer II model M6000 for $5.35. Also a Shimndru RPR-G1 GC Processor whatever that is, anyone ?? A HP model 2D-2 & 2D-3 Series X-Y recorder service & operating manual. Over at the goodwill a Apple Scanner flatbed model A9M0337 for $45. A Zenith Supersports 286 laptop for $5 and a AMIGA 520 for .25. Well that's all for now have tons of things to test out and will list later. Oh yes found a Next Cube today but the guy pulled it, he had two of them with KB, Mono monitors and mice complete units were $20. I will be going back next week to see if he will let them go. John Keep Computing !!!

28 years, 5 months

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Sorry, I need to get this to PG Manney, there was

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

---------- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Sorry, I need to get this to PG Manney, there was Date: Sunday, November 02, 1997 7:56 AM >> I'm new at collecting classics. What is a VIC-20? > >The VIC-20 was Commodore's first computer...2K of RAM (I think), did sounds >and color TV screen stuff. >The VIC-20 was my only >computer from '82-'86 unfortunatly I gave it away in '90, and I finally got >one to replace it today! Congradulations on getting your VIC-20, and I would like to know about it's specs. >I believe TV's in Bahrain are PAL instead of NTSC, or maybe I'm thinking of the United Arab Emirates. Yes, here in Bahrain they are PAL, but I'm an American, born and bred, and I'm only living here for a few years, so it's a multisystem, so it can do NTSC, PAL or any other major standard. They're PAL pretty much everywhere >from the UK to China, then in Japan, it goes back to NTSC. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 5 months

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pong

by karmes＠kiva.net

I came across your email address when I was trying to find some information on pong. I was actually looking for what a current price maybe if you wanted to sell an Atari Pong home game. If you know where I may be able to find this informatin or you know it yourself, I would be very appreciative if you could share it with me. Thanks Kristi

28 years, 5 months

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Classic Computer Manuals

by mark＠cyberlightstudios.com

Hi, I am a collector and classic enthusiast. I'm looking for copies of the original operating manuals for the following computers: Amiga 1000 Apple ][ plus Apple //e Apple //e Platinum Commodore 64 Apple DuoDisk Apple Disk II I also need original boot and os disks for these computers. If you have such materials, and they are in good-excellent condition, please email me at: mark(a)cyberlightstudios.com, and we can work out a price. I'd be very anxious to obtain these documents, particularly the Apple specific manuals. Thanks again, Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------- If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first---Invent the Universe ---Dr. Carl E. Sagan

28 years, 5 months

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apollo computers?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:25 PM 11/5/97 -0500, SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: >some guy i bought a mac video card from said he had something called an >apollo workstation. he said it was a 68020/68030 with a 19 inch monitor, can >run *nix, and would only want ~$50 for it. anyone heard of this machine or Apollo made workstations similar to (in the eyes of an HP3000 guy) Sun workstations. They were bought by HP. They run X-windows, an adequate terminal emulator, and Mosaic. (I used one briefly during a stint at HP.) They might have Unix underneath, but I couldn't figure out how to do anything except connect to the 3000 and run Mosaic. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 5 months

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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by Zeus334＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-11-05 00:04:30 EST, you write: << Oh yeah??? Military electronics has ALWAYS been about ten years ahead of what we see. That stuff is generally demilitarized (shredded) when it is taken out of service. The really high end stuff - crypto and countermeasures - always is destroyed beyond recognition. True, the computers in the F-16s and such may be a few years behind, but then they do not need such power. Things that need to do signal analysis on incoming radar pulses on the fly, or decrypting very high speed bursts of data do. >> Are you saying that, 10 years ago, the military had machines that could carry out calculations with the speed of a Pentium II -300? (I hesitate to mention the Alpha 5-433, because I think the alpha project was originally funded by the military)

28 years, 5 months

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Core Memory

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Seeing how it's advertised as a 16 Meg module, it probably isn't <a particularly pretty example of core. In my opinion, the older <core styles - where the individual beads and wires are actually I'd be surprized, as that is huge for a core system. It's far to big for one plane. My guess is it's a 16k. Way back however EMC did corestore systems of disk sizes for rapid store/recall to replace things like swapping drums and rotating media systems. It would be fun to get something like that and have it working! Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Computer collecting humor.

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> > I have been told that the CDC Cyber 70/170-series used a 60-bit wordlength. > > Well, I am currently in a room full of 64 bitters (Alphas). Cray machines > as well... > > Many (all?) CDC machines are 60 bit machines. I have at home a memory bank from a CDC Cyber two-hundred-and-something (?) which is 18 bits wide. I had always assumed that this was 16 bits plus two parity but it doesn't fit into 60 bits either way. (Memory bank is huge quantities of 40ns and 45ns 64k x 1 static RAMs surface mounted on both sides of numerous daughter boards. Each daughter board is 64k x 18 and they stack four deep all over the "mother board" of the bank.) I always meant to use this in something, but somehow I never got around to it... Philip.

28 years, 5 months

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Computer collecting humor.

by prp＠hf.intel.com

Strange word sizes were used in very early machines and special purpose machines, especially early military computers. If you look hard enough you can probably find any size, especially in the range 8-40. Here are some examples off the top of my head, but I probably have some of them wrong: > 4 (Intel 4004, etc) > 8 (Far too many to list) > 12 (PDP8, PDP12, etc) > 16 (Again far too many to list) > 18 (PDP1, etc) 19 Bendix G15, depending how you count > 20 (PERQ 1, PERQ 2) 22 Packard Bell 250, depending how you count (otherwise 23-24) > 24 (PERQ 4) <- Also Datacraft/Harris > 32 (Yep, a lot of those) > 36 (PDP10, etc) <- including IBM 701 series, Univac 1100 series 40 IAS, SWAC <- Here's the justification for the joke! 48 Burroughs 5500 etc. 60 CDC 6600, Cyber series 64, 128 IBM Stretch You get even more if you include decimal machines. (Is it fair to list the 4004 above?) > -tony Paul

28 years, 5 months

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Two Items Found

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hello. My computer was broken, and I have the day off, so I spent it mostly calling company after company after company about classic computers. I've found the following: A Sharp "M-80" (Or some letter -80) with a built in display. Probably has an 8088 processor. Nothing except tape drive. Requested price: about $80 USD (In the local currency, so it's a little off) And also a Olvetti Pr-something, like Prosignia, or Pro something PC-1. Monitior looks like it's a 13 inch or so mono. Keyboard and CPU built in, with two 3.5" FDDs. I'm not sure if they're DS DD or DS HD. Does anyone have info on these? How much do you think that they'd go for? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 5 months

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PC/AT reference

by engine＠chac.org

At 08:06 11/5/97 -0500, you wrote: > Not yet a classic, but does anyone have a {spare} copy of the "Technical >Reference Personal Computer AT"? This is the tech ref guide for the original >IBM PC/AT, published by IBM (I'm guessing in a gray fabric binder). Actually, mine was maroon, although the slipcase was gray; and as for "Not yet a classic," the pub. date was of course 1984. You'd be welcome to mine if I still had it, but I don't....think.... I do. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 5 months

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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Stupidity Strikes Again!

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

While moving the 11/34 to a more lighted area, I broke the power switch off the back. Now it doesn't power on. I need a WHOLE NEW POWER SUPPLY! Damn! I hate myself sometimes! That was a Stupid, Stupid, Stupid Mistake!

28 years, 5 months

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Computer collecting humor.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<usually "a month late". Intel might have just bought it to stamp it out, <but my guess is they're aiming to do something with the RISC market, they <could be attempting to lower the Alpha's power down to H/PC levels and the What the hell. I used to work for DEC and DEC didn't sell ALPHA they sold the fab unit that does alpha. It's cheaper to have some other silicon foundry make the part to your spec. WD, intersil, AMD and Harris have over then years made parts for DEC that were designed by or for DEC. DEC plans to keep cranking the Alpha for bet your business systems than PCs have fallen short for. In the mean time I'm running a few old VAXen to remind me how much better an OS VMS (OK, OpenVMS) is. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Needed: rom for Model 100

by transit＠primenet.com

Hi folks. I picked up a Tandy Model 100 laptop computer from a local thrift store a few days ago, for about $9. So far so good, but it doesn't have any ROM's in it (both sockets on the bottom of the machine are empty) When I switch it on, then off , the "Low Battery" light flickers, but that's all (the LCD stays blank) So, are these ROMS (which I think I need) something I can still order from Tandy (without paying an arm and a leg)? Thanks in advance (Oh, and I saw, but didn't buy, an Amiga Joyboard . . .) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 5 months

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Change History

by Chwolka＠nt-gmbh.de

http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/changes.html -- Greetings from Fritz Chwolka / collecting old computers just for fun supporting the Unofficial CP/M Web Page look at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/ and my little collection at http://www.ac.cybercity.de/user/00136/ *-------------------------------------------------------* ! Internet: Chwolka(a)nt-gmbh.de ! ! fritz.chwolka(a)ac.cybercity.de ! ! ! ! some times Chwolka(a)t-online.de ! *=======================================================* ! ! ! If you have an old CP/M System don't throw it away. ! ! Try to find someone who give the system a new home. ! ! ! *-------------------------------------------------------*

28 years, 5 months

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Temple Univ. haul

by william＠ans.net

> I just passed on the optical mouse and some keyboards for the Sun's. Passing on the optical mice or keyboards (type 3 or 4) is no great shakes. However... Passing on Sun optical mouse pads for type 3 or 4 mice is a crime punishable by death. They are unique _two_ color pads (the horizontal stripes are a different color from the verticle ones) that Sun does not make anymore (contrary to Sun Direct's sales people, the pads they sell are for the normal type 5 mice). In short, the things are getting quite rare. > I will > be going back next Saturday to pick up some other things I will see if they > still have them. You will need a shoebox (has the HD) to really do anything > other then run the build in diagnostic. I get back to you You can boot the thing off a network - no local disk required. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 5 months

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Computer collecting humor.

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I remember when I wouldn't take a 286. I needed POWER. Like a SERVER. How 'bout a 486??? THAT WOULD LAST UNTIL THE 21st CENTURTY TOO!!! IT COULD RUN WINDOWS 3.1 with NO RAM ERRORS!!! And then when upgrading to Windows 95, I remember the guy there specifaclly falling down laughing, resulting in purchasing 16MB of RAM (Then at $10 a MB), to add to the 12 I had, along with a 486 DX/2 processor. I doubt that the 432 would actually take it. But I think that Intel aimed it at the wrong market. The Digital Alpha (Recently aquired by Intel, with it's RISC... yes, RISC technology) has had some success, with 600 MHz of power in a single chip and x86 "translation software" written by Digital. Also, there is a version of Windows NT 4.0 made ONLY for Alpha's, so the translation software is not used there. Microsoft writes programs like Internet Explorer for Alphas, but they're usually "a month late". Intel might have just bought it to stamp it out, but my guess is they're aiming to do something with the RISC market, they could be attempting to lower the Alpha's power down to H/PC levels and then WINDOWS CE. Maybe they'll take the 300 MHz version, that was avaible in 1995. If Apple can get 150 Mhz into a handheld, why can't Intel? But back to classics. Would the 432 be capible today if it were given a second chance? One last thing. I remember something about a huge warehouse filled with classics. Has anyone heard since? Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 5 months

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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Wrong. For a while (in the early 90's) I subscribed to a magazine called <Defense Electronics. The military had things like 50ns RAM available then <They are way ahead in many areas; they can afford to (or used to be able to <anyway) throw money at things, and they often got first dibs. fast parts... keep this in mind: Good, fast, cheap, pick any two. In 1982 NEC and Intel sold 1kx4 (2149), 4kx1(2147) and 16kx1(2167) these were static mos parts that were anywhere from 35ns to a slow 70ns. They were widely available and about 7-9x the cost of the 4116 16kx1 dram. The problem was that '83 brought 64kx1 parts that were as cheap as the 4116, faster than the 4116 but were about 270ns-Tcy/200ns-Tcas. When your building a system the 4164 (8 of them) used roughly 240ma. the same memory using the super fast 2167 (32of them) would eat a whopping 2.16 Amps! Speed costs! It would also produce more heat. In late '83 I built a system using a 8088/8mhz with 256k of 2167s besides being amazingly fast. However 128 of those 2167s tended to heat up the place and their cost was $768 compared to $128 for the fairly new 4164 and the $96 for the very new 41256. Also using the newest 256k part would fit 4mb of ram where 256k of static parts fit and still use less than half the power. By 1990 32kx8 static rams were in the sub 30ns region. Drams were fairly fast for page mode but their requirement to have the address stuffed in in two pieces will add time to the ability to access in exchange for power savings, pins and packing density. Dram was never as fast but usually their density was the win. For the current generation of 200mhz and faster systems cache is barely able to keep up. look at the cost of 16mb of dram compared to 512k of fast cache ram. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Query

by Aperiodic＠aol.com

Anybody have any information pertaining to a Visual Technologies unit # Visual 1083? I think its also called a "Commuter". Thanks in advance. Sam Uncler

28 years, 5 months

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Beginners Need Help

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:55 PM 11/3/97 +0300, you wrote: >more. But I need a basic list of systems that are 1. Easy To Find 2. >Important enough to draw attention. 1. Depends greatly on where you are. (TI & Tandy common as dirt in Texas, less common in, say, Bahrain.) 2. Depends greatly on the audience. (Common bloke: Apple I, Osborne 01, Altair, a couple others. Me: Atari Portfolio, Model 100, NEC Starlet, Outbound Laptop, etc.) I would seriously recommend checking around on the web for the various virtual museums out there. If you don't know where to start, try <http://www.chac.org/> and check out the list of links. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 5 months

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Computer collecting humor.

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:43:58 -0500 (EST), kstumpf(a)unusual.on.ca remarked: > How many computer collectors does it take to change a light bulb? > Forty. ^^^^^ Shouldn't that really be a power of two, or maybe some bizarre permutation of 12, 16, 18, or 36? And, of course, the punch line: > One to change the light bulb and thirty-nine to chat about how good > the old one was. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 5 months

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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I wouldn't be so sure about the military part... their MIS seems to either have gone to school and got a degree in dentistry or learned on the Eniac.... corporate will always be faster than military. There is no "secret operations" that deal with these areas of computers. But maybe a company like Microsoft or maybe IBM had someone design something faster..... we'll be at 15ns soon enough anyway. We've gone from 70ns in late 94 to only 45ns today, and SRAM has become so darn fast.... by the way, does anyone know about overclocking an 8088 (the 8mhz variety), by NEC, not Intel? Hope that this input helps, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Help Identifying RAM Chips Date: Monday, November 03, 1997 3:26 AM > I disagree with both of you. 300ns is more like the 70's to me. Even the > 1982 IBM PC XT had 200ns RAM. A year later adding a third to that figure > makes no since. But 300ns might be right; as I would KILL for 30ns RAM in > a Pentium 233!!!! Even the fastest EDO RAM (Slightly outdated, but still > recent) is at 50ns; so 30ns makes ZERO sense. > Correct, the number 1 is 64k and I bet that is for video use i think because: I have old machines like this designs usually uses big 24 dip static memory or dynamic 64k in 4 bits form maybe. 300 Could be static memory more likely than dynamic type which might be 8k x 8bit in a 24 or 26 pin fat package and mostly likely found in video section. Oh yeah, I'm very sure that was normal configuration for that CGA video type for that time in 1983's, that should have 2 of them to make 16k. Other last 3 chips, they're all 256k x 1bit at 150ns. Note! Change all 9 chips in a bank to keep reliablity which you might have experienced having problems suppose if you had just did one chip... 150ns could be 8mhz because 4.77mhz takes exactly 210ns per instruction in 8088 so IBM used 200ns chips. Oh, Tim, I would be surprised if military accidently released 15ns in early 1980's Oh no! :) NOT! The fastest current drams of any kind was 45ns and mostly used in video cards for no reason where 60ns would do well...static chips did not hit 30ns mark for nearly 7 years later, I think. Troll the hardware guy. > ---------- > From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Help Identifying RAM Chips > Date: Monday, November 03, 1997 5:35 AM > > > Your chip #1 is a 64k chip speed of 30ns, chips 2&3 are 256k at 150ns > speed. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Big nip to save bandwidth... Yes right, Tim.

28 years, 5 months

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Computer collecting humor.

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 10.36 04/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >Which reminds me. Which word lengths have been used by (binary) computers? >Off the top of my head : > >4 (Intel 4004, etc) >8 (Far too many to list) >12 (PDP8, PDP12, etc) ..omissis... >What others? 9 (Texas 99/4, 990/10, TMS 9900) 86 (Intel Docet again) Riccardo

28 years, 5 months

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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:13 PM 11/3/97 +0300, you wrote: >I wouldn't be so sure about the military part... their MIS seems to either >have gone to school and got a degree in dentistry or learned on the >Eniac.... corporate will always be faster than military. There is no >"secret operations" that deal with these areas of computers. But maybe a Wrong. For a while (in the early 90's) I subscribed to a magazine called Defense Electronics. The military had things like 50ns RAM available then. They are way ahead in many areas; they can afford to (or used to be able to, anyway) throw money at things, and they often got first dibs. I mean, if you had developed a spiffy new toilet seat, and were going to sell it for $50 each, but the military guys showed up and said "we'll buy 10,000 of them for $10,000 each, but you can't tell anyone about them", what would you do? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 5 months

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Spectrum case colour

by pjoules＠enterprise.net

e.tedeschi wrote: >Yes, the darker colour +2 is really a +2a which Amstrad decided to make >incompatible with the other Spectrum extensions. Is his why some (but not all) of my old spectrum 48k software will not load on this one? Regards Pete #include <std_disclaimer>

28 years, 5 months

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Darnit! UDA50 problem.

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> > > Absolutely. The wire in question is between pins CA1 and CB1 on the _same_ > > > slot - the slot the control cart of the UDA50 is in. It's a little loop of > > > wire, and is quite difficult to find the first time. > > > > Okay... I'll give it a shot! But if I foul up, I'm stuck - I don't have > > a wirewrap tool. > > You can always solder a jumper back in place. Oh, come on, Tony, _please!_ Individual socket pins from various types of connector (including D I think) fit quite well over these backplane pins. Crimp or solder a short length of wire to two of these and hey presto! A removable NPG jumper. NB take care that these don't stick out so far as to foul on the case... Philip.

28 years, 5 months

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Darnit! UDA50 problem.

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

I got the 34, and I just located a UDA50 for it, known working. Cost me $30. I plugged it in, and connected the RA81. It's cabled like this: +----+ +-----+ |1134| | RA81| +----+ +----|+ 1 /-----3/ | | |----**** | | +2+ Cable 1 is the cable from the UDA50. Cable 2 is a normal SDI cable Cable 3 is attached to the RA81 **** is a 4-port SDI bulkhead plug. I have the UDA going in port 1, the patch going from port 1 to port 3, and the RA on port 3. I boot RT11SJ from a RX02 (Because I don't have a DU bootstrap) and tell it "boot du0:" The machine sits there. If I look, 2 led's come on the 2nd (terminator side) uda board, the first 2 closest to the PS. They strobe normally when the machine starts. They stay that way. If I halt the CPU, the BUS ERR light comes on. Did I foul up the cabling, or is the UDA or drive toast, or what?

28 years, 5 months

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Computer collecting humor.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The Intel 8088 was 8 bits, the 8086 16; the 80x87, as I recall, are 80 <bits internally (another one for your list, Tony, if coprocessors Generally there are several parameters instruction word size, largest data word size, internal bus size and external bus size. Some are archtectually decided. The 8088 was 16 bit. What you have is instruction size (8bit!), register size(16bit) and databus size(8 or 16). the 8088 and 8086 are the identical processor save for the data bus is 8bits on the 8088 as small systems economy vs speed measure. The processor assembles the bytes as needed internally. Advanatage of an 8bit bus is cost and the expense of some speed. Motorola did that with the 6800x, it was internally 32bit, but available as 8/16 bit bus and sold as a 16 bit processor. <I believe that there are some CPU chips now with 64-bit internal buses. <Any advance on 64? Alpha early was external 64bit and later external 128bit but the register structure is 64bit. <At the other end, do the processors in the AMT DAP count as 1-bit <machines? Or are they bit-slices of a 32 bit machine? Or a 1024 bit <machine? Unknown here. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Computer collecting humor.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< 9 (Texas 99/4, 990/10, TMS 9900) the ti machines were all 16bit. < 86 (Intel Docet again) ???? Intel has done 2(bitslice), 4, 8, 16, and 32. 1bit Moto 14500 (actually 1bit data and 4 bit control word) 4bit ti1000, NEC uCOM4, NEC 75xx series, 4004, 4040 all had 4 bit data paths but the instruction words were 8bit! 22bit Perkin Elmur 60bit CDC 64bit DEC Alpha Allison

28 years, 5 months

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Apple _did_ release rights to 2nd party!

by coslor＠pscosf.peru.edu

In the past I have seen a _little_ discussion here about how some companies, such as Tandy (with their CoCo), and other companies should re-release their old 8-bit computers targeted towards the current kids community... similar to what v-tech does with their kids computers. I also heard a comment recently that said there is no way Apple computers would ever license someone else to produce their computers... I beleive the discussion was regarding the black case Apples. Anyway, I recently saw in Christmas Catalog that Tiger Computing is selling a computer, that takes cartridges only, for about $200. You hook it to your tv, and most of the available software is original Apple titles by MECC, a popular Apple educational software developer. It even says in the description that this little lap-top size unit is licensed from Apple, and based on Apple //e technology! Even more, you can buy a cheap 14.4 modem cartridge that allows internet access. Does anyone have one of these Tigers? Just curious. Also, still looking for a Laser 50 (Sam Ismail? Bill? etc., etc., and am curious for more information on my Laser 310 I just picked up. Maybe a trade straight across? Well, my $.02 worth, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*//

28 years, 5 months

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Computer collecting humor.

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Also, 88 (8088), 87 (487, 8087, etc.) and many other numbers. With macs, there's a whole slew of numbers that I don't want to get into. Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Riccardo Romagnoli <chemif(a)mbox.queen.it> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Computer collecting humor. Date: Tuesday, November 04, 1997 4:49 PM At 10.36 04/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >Which reminds me. Which word lengths have been used by (binary) computers? >Off the top of my head : > >4 (Intel 4004, etc) >8 (Far too many to list) >12 (PDP8, PDP12, etc) ..omissis... >What others? 9 (Texas 99/4, 990/10, TMS 9900) 86 (Intel Docet again) Riccardo

28 years, 5 months

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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I disagree with both of you. 300ns is more like the 70's to me. Even the 1982 IBM PC XT had 200ns RAM. A year later adding a third to that figure makes no since. But 300ns might be right; as I would KILL for 30ns RAM in a Pentium 233!!!! Even the fastest EDO RAM (Slightly outdated, but still recent) is at 50ns; so 30ns makes ZERO sense. ---------- From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Help Identifying RAM Chips Date: Monday, November 03, 1997 5:35 AM > Your chip #1 is a 64k chip speed of 30ns, chips 2&3 are 256k at 150ns speed. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I disagree with the 30ns figure; why the heck would a Compaq Portable from 1983 have 30ns RAM in it? 300ns seems far more likely, and is perfectly consistent with the numbering >from manufacturers of that era. > The last set of tell the the size and speed (64-3 and 256-15). John > >I have two original Compaq Portables, both of which are giving POST > >errors when they boot which indicate bad RAM. I have gone through a few > >... > >Chip #1: > >Hitachi > >1818-3006 > >Japan 8332U > >HM4864P-3 Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)

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Items for trade or sale

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

the following are for trade or sale by a guy here in St. Paul MN. PLEASE e-mail him directly at sloan003(a)maroon.tc.umn.edu Apples - IIc with case, monitor, power supply Platinum IIe with Duo drive, platinum monitor IIplus with amber monitor, 2 drives IIe with monitor, one drive KB's - 2 MAC Plus type, 2 MAC II type, 1 MAC 128 type Mice - 2 old type early MAC's MAC Plus computer Apple Imagewriter II printer 2 Conner 40meg HD 10 MAC SE manuals new in package Tons of new manuals for MAC's Apple II's and other Apple products(ask for list) Appletalk card new Mac II network card

28 years, 5 months

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Beginners Need Help

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

>Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 19:34:29 -0600 >To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >From: "John R. Keys Jr." <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> >Subject: Re: Beginners Need Help > >Pickup a copy of A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators by Dr. Thomas F. Haddock. It's a great book. John >At 05:55 PM 11/3/97 +0300, you wrote: >>Hello. I'm not so much a classic specialist as a computer specialist, as I >>love both old and new computers. I'm not a proffesional, but do know >>BASIC, DOS and all other kinds of stuff which the fast-moving stream of >>technology has left behind, unfortunately. But anyway, I didn't know jack >>about computers in the early 80's, other than what the average Joe knew: >>Keyboard, commands, annoying. But since '92, I've been learning more and >>more. But I need a basic list of systems that are 1. Easy To Find 2. >>Important enough to draw attention. >> Thanks, >> >> Tim D. Hotze >> >> >

28 years, 5 months

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Sorry, I need to get this to PG Manney, there was an error when I sent it direct....

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sorry it took so long. I tried mailing you, but there was an error. ---------- From: PG Manney <manney(a)nwohio.com> To: photze(a)batelco.com.bh Subject: Re: The link you sent Date: Thursday, October 30, 1997 6:01 PM >It's really comforting to know that some people have consionace. >Thanks. I'm trying to raise my children with consciences, too. We're >Christians, and we feel that treating people *right* is very important Those people will be the future leaders of our world. >I hope >that you're not in a hurry: A friend's giving me a new board, and they say >that it could take some time to get it, but as soon as I get it, they new >board will get shipped to you. Don't worry, I won't give it to anyone >else. I always need motherboards and drives (got any old IDE drives around?), because I buy and sell computers. We're out here in the wilds of Ohio (USA), where many people have older systems...I even sold a Commodore the other day! I have an old IDE drive, it's a Segate 41 MB. It says ST-251, then on a seperate sticker it says -1 right next to the first one. Serial number is 25534738. It's the large kind, like they had back in the early 80's. If you repair computers, I have a additional 486/SX 33 that I could throw in. >remember the XT being the first IBM, but I might be wrong. The IBM PC (model 5150, IIRC was the first PC...you can tell that one from the TX sinc the PC had a small funny keyboard (very small, oddly placed "Enter" key), 5 slots (the XT had 8) and a Cassette plug next to the keyboard one. Also, the case said "IBM Personal Computer" instead of "IBM Personal Computer XT". The motherboard was redesigned in the XT (the PC, for example, had 2 banks of DIP switches on the motherboard, instead of one). The XT counted out memory when it booted up, the PC just gave you a flashing cursor to stare at. Actually, the IBM 5100 was the first desktop computer. It had 8" drives, a dedicated printer and all that...it bombed, and IBM didn't try again until the PC. >Lessee...I have several Commodores, a couple of VIC-20's (one in original >box with original packaging, used once.), a couple of Apples... two or three >PC's and an XT (I think). It would be better to send *anything* but the >IBM's, because everything else is plastic-cased, and therefore lighter. >Still, you're the customer! I'm new at collecting classics. What is a VIC-20? And what model of Comodore, and Apple? I have a TV screen, I even have one in the guest bedroom that's used once in a blue moon. Didn't the older Apples up to the IIGS have attached monitors? (I remember a few Macs that had one later than that...) >The Post Office tells me that 44 lbs will cost $89 US to send to you. If you >have a TV screen, you can save on the cost of shipping a monitor for an >Apple/Commodore/anything else. (The IBM will work a TV screen with the right >card, but colors are funny). Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 5 months

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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

You are right it was a typo on my part. At 06:35 PM 11/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >> Your chip #1 is a 64k chip speed of 30ns, chips 2&3 are 256k at 150ns speed. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >I disagree with the 30ns figure; why the heck would a Compaq >Portable from 1983 have 30ns RAM in it? 300ns seems >far more likely, and is perfectly consistent with the numbering >from manufacturers of that era. > >> The last set of tell the the size and speed (64-3 and 256-15). John >> >I have two original Compaq Portables, both of which are giving POST >> >errors when they boot which indicate bad RAM. I have gone through a few >> >... >> >Chip #1: >> >Hitachi >> >1818-3006 >> >Japan 8332U >> >HM4864P-3 > >Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) > >

28 years, 5 months

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C-64

by Zeus334＠aol.com

Would anyone be interested in C-64 stuff and a bunch of tapes? I have a 1541 drive, and okidata printer, a bunch of famous programs (space rogue, LOGO, bank street writer, GEOS, F-14 Tomcat,etc.), a few joysticks, a Koala pad with software. 300 bps modem. No actual C-64.I don't want to ship this stuff, but I'll give it for free to anyone who picks it up in Boston, MA, USA. Also, I have some reel to reel tapes, some labelled ADES, NOVA controller, and other things. Most are dated 1980's, 1990's. I'll give them away too.

28 years, 5 months

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Space problems in the UK and US

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 05:44 AM 10/26/97 +0300, you wrote: >I have a similiar problem: Due to the large size of the XT style >motherboards, my desk devoted to classic computers isn't big enough. I can >fit the computer on, the monitor on the computer, and the keyboard on the >floor. When you try to type, it's not fun. (Type a command. Stop. Before Look into the monitor arms that let attach to your desk and support your monitor above the desk/computer. Many of them have a simple wire rack that pulls out in front to hold a keyboard. (Basically, it's just a square U of metal that slides in and out.) There are other advantages to this as well. If you're working on several computers that use the same type of monitor, you don't need to move the monitor to swap CPU's. Also, it lets you use the monitor-over-CPU set up for machines that aren't flat boxes (like a C64, atari 800 or SOL-20.) You can also swing it out of the way if you want to work on the computer. >PS- How do you post an origional message? Do you just send one to9 >classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu , or somewhere else? Yep. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 5 months

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Need Jumper Settings...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Okay, thanks, but I need to know jumper settings. There is a set of four jumpers accessable in the back when the graphics board is installed. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Need Jumper Settings... Date: Monday, November 03, 1997 2:27 PM "CHIPS" is Chip & Technologies. Well, Sounds like you gotten a great chipset type: it can emulate EGA driving any monitor TTL, CGA while in EGA. Very good. I think C&T first chipset was this kind that allowed low cost computers to happen. Then C&T did in 286 and 386 chipsets including cached types as well. Not too bad chipset for 286 but tends to be bit slower in 386 especially at higher mhz. Now C&T is focusing only on video chipsets for portable applications only mainly driving flat panels. Troll

28 years, 5 months

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Help Identifying RAM Chips

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<company like Microsoft or maybe IBM had someone design something <faster..... we'll be at 15ns soon enough anyway. We've gone from 70ns in <late 94 to only 45ns today, and SRAM has become so darn fast.... by the I've been in the technology for 20 years and 15 NS up until the 90s was bipolar or ECL territory and those technologies were not dense enough to yeild large memories or cheap. There were static mos/cmos parts that were fast but in the mid 80s 70ns was still very quick and 45ns was at the corner of the technology. <way, does anyone know about overclocking an 8088 (the 8mhz variety), by <NEC, not Intel? By how much? 10% is generally doable and depending on the mask and age of the part it may have been faster than marked. The problem is everything around the 8088 has to run faster and the eproms/rams are likely unable to keep up as 10mhz was state of the art for the time and even then wait states had to be inserted to keep things in sync. I'd recommend not trying as the amount to could get is not significant enough and you may cause other problems in the process. If sped is a must find an AT or 386. Even a 386sx/16 is at least 3-5x faster! Allison

28 years, 5 months

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