- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by sethm＠loomcom.com

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28 years, 2 months

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<none>

by manney＠nwohio.com

Don't forget to try re-inking if you can't find one. manney > Does any one know what type of printer ribbon can fit onto an original adam > (Colecovision)printer (ginerec one I thought Was a deablo hytype but it wont > fit. > And where to get one from I live in Castlegar, British Columbia Canada. > > Thanx for your help > > Chris >

28 years, 2 months

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Nostalgia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have to comment on a few things that have recently been posted here. One is the addition of 37 books to a vintage library. How many books do you people have? One would need a bill gates-type house to store all of these old computers and books! I live in an apartment, and envy people who can- I am trying to sort out a few tens of manuals! Incidentally, I have finally gotten permission to take old stuff from a supply room in my school. I picked up Ventura Publisher 1.0, DOS 3.3 (I had an un-shrinkwrapping ceremony for that), and the PC XT manuals. And, there is lots more stuff. Harvard Graphics, printer manuals, that System/34 I mention every few weeks... What was the first publishing program anyway? Also, how many different home/small office computers have been made, do you suppose? Now, it's just Intel and Mac :( Lastly, I wanted to know if there was any place where I could actually sit down at an old machine and play with it for half an hour, just to get the feel for it. P.S. How big was the IBM 370? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Who's in PDX?

by rexstout＠ptld.uswest.net

Alright, this may be a REALLY stupid idea, but it sounds like fun. First, how many people on the list are in Portland, OR? Sure seems like there are a lot. Second, who in PDX would be interested in seeing a new classic computers users group? Not a dozen groups of C64 and TI-99 fans, but a UG for ALL of the old computers, wether it be an old mainframe/minicomputer or a funny looking micro. Well? What do you think? Would it be worth it? That's all for now, from my strange mind... But be careful, I might pounce at any time! :-> -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek

28 years, 2 months

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Sun 3/50 and Shoebox

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Richard A. Cini" <rcini(a)email.msn.com> wrote: > I don't have a Sun keyboard or mouse, so what are the > terminal-equivalent keys for L1? Oh. Never mind L1-A (or stop-A on newer keyboards), just press the break key. > I've tried the "b sd(0,0,0)" command from the montior in DIAG mode, but > it complains that the device is not present. I don't have a SCSI terminator > on the end of the chain, so that may be an issue (the shoebox did not come > with one; I ordered one :-)). Yep, it does want to see one. Something that you may want to look out for: some Suns (including the 3/50 and 3/60 I think) do not supply termination power on the bus. And some of these short the termination power line on the bus to ground, which can lead to fireworks of one sort or another if another device on the bus is trying to supply termination power over the bus to an external terminator. So you may want to do something like open that disk/tape box up, declare one device to be "on the end" of the SCSI bus, install the appropriate termination resistors on that device, and get that device to provide termination power to its resistors but not to the bus. Confused yet? Good. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 2 months

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VCF gets media coverage

by dastar＠wco.com

I'm pretty proud of this so I thought I'd share it with the group. I hope nobody minds.

28 years, 2 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 318

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> Subject: More books for the library >I added another 37 volumes to my vintage computer library yesterday. >By far the most valuable from a historical standpoint is the book >_Computer Power for the Small Business_ from 1979....[snip] Some of those books are pretty good, years ago I passed by many of them but nowadays they deserve a second look. >It contains information on systems we know much of, such as the Atari's, >Apple, PETs, Radio Shack, etc. But it also has blurbs on systems that >I've not seen mentioned anywhere else (at least not in a way that is >looking back on these systems with a historical perspective) like the RCA >Cosmac VIP, the Sol-20, Exidy Sorcerer, Heathkit H-8 and H-11, Intecolor >8031. >The best part is the descriptions of systems I've never knew about before. >Has anyone ever heard of an Outpost computer? Its a fully integrated >package with keyboard, display and 5.25" drive, but its almost three feet >wide, with the two 5.25" drive bays to the side of the display! How about >the PeCos One from APF Electronics. Is that the "imagination machine?" Never saw one, the production run must have been short-lived. > I have a pong machine made by APF but >who would've thought they once made computers? How about The Renaissance >Machine (aka Compucolor II)? I saw it in a computer store in 1980, I recall it was pricy, nice display, real crisp for the time, no hint of any decent games whatsoever... [snip] >Here's an interesting tidbit. Apparently Data General made a line of >computers dubbed "The Digital Group". According to this entry in the >table, they were systems based on the Z-80, 8080A, 9080A, 6800 and 6502 >processors; they had 2K of main memory; they used cassettes for storage. >Can anyone verify this? Really cool cases, seen lots of pictures, no actual unit though... 001010111010100100100101001001011011001001011001101011010100101110100100100011 Speaking of old publications, does anyone remember the the album (12" record) titled something like the "First Philidelphia Computer Music Festival" it was distributed by Creative Computing, had music for a variety of sources including some astounding stuff from Bell Labs and the like (a computer sythesized Daisy tune, cathedral organ sethesis of Fuge in D minor, etc.) as well as more contemporary for the time computer stuff (Cosmac ELF three-voice tunes, etc.) All of it was pretty extraordinary given the time it was recorded, to some it may seem old compared to today's 'sythesisers on a card'... 001010111010100100100101001001011011001001011001101011010100101110100100100011 From: "Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> Subject: Nostalgia >I have to comment on a few things that have recently been posted here. >One is the addition of 37 books to a vintage library. How many books >do you people have? One would need a bill gates-type house to store all >of these old computers and books! I live in an apartment, and envy >people who can- I am trying to sort out a few tens of manuals! It is not always the quantity but the quality too... I also live in an apartment and have to be somewhat selective of what I get... Many of my books are in storage... Maybe when I lin the Lottery I can buy a museum for it all... >What was the first publishing program anyway? For micros, I would have to say the original Print Shop by Broderbund Software, it was a landmark achievement in my books... Wow graphics, text with free-form design! I didn't say it was the best but one of the first most popular publishing program for home use... >Also, how many different home/small office computers have >been made, do you suppose? Now, it's just Intel and Mac :( Untrue Amiga is still in production (Gateway 2000 now owns em). I am sure there are others, you limit yourself by saying that... There are hundreds of brands/models... >Lastly, I wanted to know if there was any place where I could actually >sit down at an old machine and play with it for half an hour, just to >get the feel for it. P.S. How big was the IBM 370? Well where do you live? Maybe someone on this list lives nearby... Heck I'd be tickled to have someone come over and look at my machines while I fill their ear for an hour or so... Other than that there is shows like the Vintage Computer Festival. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 2 months

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No subject

by chrish＠knet.kootenay.net

Does any one know what type of printer ribbon can fit onto an original adam (Colecovision)printer (ginerec one I thought Was a deablo hytype but it wont fit. And where to get one from I live in Castlegar, British Columbia Canada. Thanx for your help Chris

28 years, 2 months

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ProFile interface/cable needed

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On : Fri, 6 Feb 1998 18:10:59 -0800 , Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> wrote: >>Well, you need a ProFile interface card :) >>That's going to be hard to come by. If you are an extremely persuasive >>person, you may be able to get one from Sun Remarketing (www.sunrem.com), >>but you'll have to talk 'em into it. Hmmm. I've heard of these guys before, but never contacted them. Thanks for the lead. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

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slipping sticks

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Gemmary tell me they're out of ES500 rules :( Pity, they were a bargain at that price. So, your next stop could be The Slide Rule Universe. The site is a bit hard to navigate through, but in the forsale section you'll find new Picketts and other rules - prices a bit higher... but if you need one you need one http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/swap.html Cheers Andrew Davie -----Original Message----- From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, February 07, 1998 3:50 AM Subject: Re: Re[2]: slipping sticks >At 16:04 2/6/98 GMT, you wrote: >>> PS: Brand new Pickett ES500 rules (quite nice model) can be had for US$25 >>[snip] >>....I've never heard of the Gemmary - can you give >>a bit more info? > >How about: > >The Gemmary >Box 2560 >Fallbrook CA 92088 USA >+1 760 728-3321 voice >+1 760 728-3322 fax >rcb(a)gemmary.com mail >www.gemmary.com/rcb/ website > >They sometimes have Curtas too but not for $25! >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > >

28 years, 2 months

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More books for the library

by dastar＠wco.com

I added another 37 volumes to my vintage computer library yesterday. By far the most valuable from a historical standpoint is the book _Computer Power for the Small Business_ from 1979. It is a buyer's guide for microcomputers of the mid- to late -0's era. Talk about a treasure. This book has pictures and decriptions of many computers I've never even heard of. It contains information on systems we know much of, such as the Atari's, Apple, PETs, Radio Shack, etc. But it also has blurbs on systems that I've not seen mentioned anywhere else (at least not in a way that is looking back on these systems with a historical perspective) like the RCA Cosmac VIP, the Sol-20, Exidy Sorcerer, Heathkit H-8 and H-11, Intecolor 8031. The best part is the descriptions of systems I've never knew about before. Has anyone ever heard of an Outpost computer? Its a fully integrated package with keyboard, display and 5.25" drive, but its almost three feet wide, with the two 5.25" drive bays to the side of the display! How about the PeCos One from APF Electronics. I have a pong machine made by APF but who would've thought they once made computers? How about The Renaissance Machine (aka Compucolor II)? There's also mention of the Teal SHC-8000, which is sort of like a pet with display, keyboard and cassette player in one unit. It then has a listing with about 40 different system descriptions, including CPU, memory, external storage, input (ie. keyboard, lightpen), output (ie. display, printer) and basic cost. There's also the company address which is extremely valuable for research. Here's an interesting tidbit. Apparently Data General made a line of computers dubbed "The Digital Group". According to this entry in the table, they were systems based on the Z-80, 8080A, 9080A, 6800 and 6502 processors; they had 2K of main memory; they used cassettes for storage. Can anyone verify this? I also got another similar book entitled _The Peter McWilliams Personal Computer Buying Guide_ circa 1985. I haven't had a chance to go through it in much detail but it is basically more nice descriptions of early- to mid-80's computers, again some of which I've never heard of. I'll do a review later. In my travels I also picked up a Victor 800 electric adding machine. I don't collect adding machines and only rare grab them for specific reasons. In this case, this is the same Victor as the Victor 9000 computer. I knew right away because the 'o' in the "Victor" emblem was that striped-circle that is telling of a Victor product (plus it had a Scott's Valley, CA address on the back). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 2 months

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CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> How much is there on the 3270pc? I have absolutely NO documentation and > I'd like to have some refs. I have half a dozen to a dozen pages, I think. Email me privately at Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk with your snail-mail address and I'll post you a photocopy - I don't think there can be any objection to this (can there?) It is only marketing stuff, but it is not completely clueless (unlike modern equivalents!) Philip.

28 years, 2 months

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Nostalgia

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 05:43 PM 2/6/98 PST, you wrote: >been made, do you suppose? Now, it's just Intel and Mac :( And AMD, Cyrix, Centaur, Alpha... -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

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Just a thought, Y2K Situation | Classiccomp to rescue?

by wpe＠interserv.com

Hi, Just a thought, but, this group has a handle on the "heritage systems" that are still in use..... Lott'a COBOL etc floating around... Could we, as individuals, or as a group, help work this situation? Could be a lot of employment out there, not to mention a "save the world" type thing... I apologize if this is off-topic, or out of line.... Will

28 years, 2 months

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IBM 5155 Portable Personal Computer Available

by dastar＠wco.com

I ran across an IBM Portable Personal Computer (Model 5155) today in a thrift store sans keyboard ("sans" = "without" for the English language purists). The price was $50. I'd be happy to buy it and ship it to someone who would want this. I don't know if it works, but I believe I may be able to test it. I imagine shipping would be about $25 to the farthest corners of the country (I'm in California, 94588), more for out of the country of course. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 2 months

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PC/AT Config programs

by mallison＠konnections.com

Steve, and all, Its in here: ftp://204.146.167.81/pub/pccbbs/refdisks should be atdg207.* look in the gen_text directory for allfiles.txt for a list of all the bbs stuff. -Mike Allison Steve Przepiora wrote: > > Hi, does anyone have the setup utility for the IBM AT BIOS? > > Thanks, > > Steve Przepiora > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Name: vcard.vcf > Part 1.2 Type: text/x-vcard > Encoding: 7bit > Description: Card for Stephen Przepiora

28 years, 2 months

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Sun 3/50 and Shoebox

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: I got a no-name "shoebox" drive for my Sun 3/50M workstation. It has a Maxtor 300mb SCSI hard drive and what appears to be a 60mb DC600 tape drive. After reading the Sun FAQ, I'm left clueless on how to get it to boot >from the hard drive. The workstation that I got appears to have been a remote-boot type, because it looks for an Internet address at startup. Dirst off, how do I change the default boot device? Second, what are the appropriate SCSI device IDs for the hard drive and tape drive? Right now, they are set for tape:6, drive:4 (I remember from somewhere that the Suns look for a drive on ID=6). Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

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Dec/Vaxstn 3100, and source in SF

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>>Anyway, the place I saw them is called HMR Global Recycling. They >> >> 5 Mac Mice $6.00 ea > >This reminds me... can any of you recommentd a good mailorder place where I >can find a couple of inexpensive Mac ADB keyboards and ADB mice (2 each)? Hmmm... Perhaps I could pick up some for you next time I'm there? What are you willing to pay for keyboards? Say, anyone in the Bay Area wanna get together there sometime? I work from home (generally) MWF, and can be somewhat flexible about my time. Lemme know... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 2 months

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3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted

by mallison＠konnections.com

If you have any 3270pc stuff laying around, I'm still in the market for documents, software, parts, pieces or systems. Lemme know. Or, if anyone is in Cleaveland and might be willing to go to the Lewis Research Center to pick up items and send them to us, lemme know. There's a beer in it somewhere.... -Mike

28 years, 2 months

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Real hackers

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:54 AM 2/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >Heheh. So true, unfortunately. The other extreme is the >fat-pud-who-eats-while-he's-hacking stereotype and then the Ever see "Cloak and Dagger"? Y'know the fat-pud-who-eats-while-he's-hacking character who gets killed? I got into a couple of fights because people said that that was me... P.S., I think real hacking is basically just a strong sense of curiosity, coupled with a need for adventure. A lot of people go rock climbing or skydiving or skiing or what-have-you to get their adrenalin flowing, and some get that same rush from getting a tricky program working (Like that web page generator I wrote a couple weeks ago) or from getting a circuit up and running. I think innovation comes not necessarily from a desire to innovate, but >from running out of challenges that have been done before. The first time you write a "hello world" program, it's great. But pretty soon, that, and G.P.A. average programs and Tetris-clones get to be old hat, and hackers start looking for new challenges, only there's nothing left they can say "hey that's neat, I think I'll try and do something like that" and they have to find something like "Hmmm... what if I used that thing to make doing this thing easier..." and voila, you've got Visicalc or whatever. P.P.S. warezloosers are just liquor store robbers in disquise. Doesn't take much intelligence to copy MSWord on to a CD or upload it to an FTP site. P.P.P.S. For them what was interested in my web page generator, I'm working on documenting it and will put it up on the web Real Soon Now. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 2 months

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IBM Archive

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:55 PM 2/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Anyone know where there's a good IBM program and/or doc archive that >goes back beyond last month? Really into the 80's Looking for original >PC stuff... IBM has one -- internally. I was just e-mailed some good info on the IBM 9075 PC Radio's I have in response to form I filled out on their web site. (Sorry, I don't know where...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 2 months

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Panasonic 32k toy computer

by mallison＠konnections.com

I've had my eye on a little toy Panasonic, improved sinclair clone. Anyone know what's inside? It's silver with a nice keypad, letters with basic functions, tape port, tv port, etc. and 32k Can't remember the name off hand. Just wanted to know before a spend the whole 6 dollars. (yeah, I'm becoming a bit of a baby). But I coould pull down the Apple ][ + with a Z80 card.... I'm leaning towards the Z80.... but it's twice the price : -} -Mike

28 years, 2 months

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Card sorter question

by harlen＠erols.com

Are there still usable punch card sorting machines out there? Do you know where any are? TIA.

28 years, 2 months

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ProFile interface/cable needed

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Well, you need a ProFile interface card :) That's going to be hard to come by. If you are an extremely persuasive person, you may be able to get one from Sun Remarketing (www.sunrem.com), but you'll have to talk 'em into it. The cable is simply a DB25-DB25 straight through. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard A. Cini [SMTP:rcini@email.msn.com] > Sent: Friday, February 06, 1998 5:41 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: ProFile interface/cable needed > > I just got a ProFile /// hard drive off of eBay. What is the interface > card > that I need for it? > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > ============================================ > > > >

28 years, 2 months

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ProFile interface/cable needed

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I just got a ProFile /// hard drive off of eBay. What is the interface card that I need for it? Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

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Dec/Vaxstn 3100, and source in SF

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Is there a difference between a DecStation 3100 and a VaxStation 3100? I saw some of each today at one of my favorite money pits (escaped for under $200 today!). Are they Vaxen or something else? I'm not too interested (I'm an HP 3000 guy). Anyway, the place I saw them is called HMR Global Recycling. They basically take a *HUGE* warehouse full of old PC's and Macs and ship them overseas everyday. But they also sell some stuff to the average joe. It's mostly as-is, especially for the odder stuff. They have the DEC stuff, plus some Sparc stuff, misc. Apple (mostly mac) stuff, and the occassional wierd thing. Sometimes they have good prices, and sometimes they don't; it depends on who you talk to and how they're feeling. You go in, look around for what you want, then find someone to tell you how much they want for it. There is no set pricing, or anything, they seem to make it up as you go. They're open to negotiation; I am generally able to talk them down a bit. Anyway, today I picked up: 4 DB25-Cen50 SCSI Cables (HP) $2.50 ea 5 Mac Mice $6.00 ea 10 Mac Appletalk kits MIB $2.50 ea 4 250MB 3.5" SCSI HD's $17.50 ea 1 6 HH drive ext SCSI case $20.00 1 HP 9114 disk drive $10.00 and the best of the bunch... 1 GRiD Compass 1101 $15.00 Anyway they have a web page (not much, last time I checked) at <http://www.hmr-usa.com/>, and they're located on 23rd St., just East of 3rd, near Army (or Ceasar Chavez for the tourists.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 2 months

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Real hackers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>> The name hacker has been dragged through the mud for far too long. <>> There's almost no real record of the 1st and 2nd generation hacks. (1 <>> were the hacks at MIT. 2nd were those at Berkeley and elsewhere, who <>> adjusted the Hacker Ethic to allow for making money. 3rd are the <>> present-day warez loosers. [They're here for refrence. Technically, Being one of the first generation hackers... Some of my better hacks was blueboxing and using it to call MITS about hardware bugs. The college dorm pay phone that always gave money back (the trick was truly hiding the diodes used so TPC didn't find them easily). Running a VLF (160khz) site, using FM on CB in the early 70s when it wasn't full of "breaker breaker". Though the three 12v car batteries used to power the 26v line on G's minuteman missle computer in the early '70s was pretty crufty. Sending 4800 baud data through a repeater while a principle engineer from RCA was telling us it couldn't be done. It can be handy not knowing you can't. ;) Sometimes it was as silly as putting a speaker to the link lamp of a PDP-8 front pannel and coding music. By the early '80s hacking was going to disrepute as the tech wars style came in. Early hacking was serious doing it on zer0 budget, the technically difficult with bailing wire or the subtle application of brute force. Most of all hacking was doing it with minimum docs and piecing the picture from it's smoke signals. that was hacking as I knew it. the last remnents I see todat is people talking about getting an old PDP-8 or 10 and using a modern IDE disk so they can power it up and run it affordably. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

I forget who wrote half of this, but here goes: > Isn't PGA Pin-Grid-Array? (It's probably wrong, but hay....) [...] > You sure this isn't PGA? PGA = Professional Graphics Adapter, as Kip Crosby so rightly pointed out. When I was at IBM this was called PGC (C = Controller). FWIW, the PGC was three circuit boards bolted together, the two outer ones going into adjacent slots of an XT motherboard. It had an 8088 as graphics coprocessor, and did 640 x 480 x loads of colours. But back to the original question, > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two > coupled long cards to run the video... > > -Mike No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are likely to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't know the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. Unfortunately, AFAIK, it only did 8 colours. The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at emulating the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it that went in the slots either side in the motherboard. 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not as a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for it...) 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points Addressable modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the top lefthand corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced the capability somewhat as well. It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. Pity. Later IBM released the 5370 series machines. These included the 3270PC/G and the 3270PC/GX. These had full graphics capability, the G on a monitor the same size as the 5272 (but with I think more colours); the GX had a graphics coprocessor (5378) in a box the size of a PS/2 model 30 and a 19 inch monitor (5379) with lots of pixels (1280 x 1024 I think, but could have been only 1024 x 768) and I don't know how many colours (but might have been 64). But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one of PS and APA, alas. Hope this helps Philip.

28 years, 2 months

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Slipsticks and calculators and a clock

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<At 11:34 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: <>Texas Instruments was naming some of their calculators "SR" (for Slide <>Rule) up until the mid-80's, at least. My first one was the SR-10...the <>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 (8bigit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Slipping sticks

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Well, since we're on this subject... how can I resist once more mentioning... Slide Rule Trading Post http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ On my site you will find a link to JavaSlide on the main menu. That's a JAVA slide rule I wrote some while back, so you can reminisc even if you can't find your old faithful. Its quite good, actually. There's a society called the Oughtred society, with around 400+ members. Each devoted to their slide rule collection. I know of some people with 700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. Cheers Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 4:22 AM Subject: Re: Slipping sticks > ><At 19:20 2/3/98 -0500, PG wrote: ><>"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here ha ><>his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? > >I have my 10" white aluminum pickett handy and grab it when a quick >"good to three places" answer will do. I also use a E6B which is a >circular aircraft slide rule for time, speed, distance, fuel use and >wind correction. That one is in the plane as I'm absolutely certain >it works as the calculator version of the E6B allways seems to need a >new battery. > >Allison > >

28 years, 2 months

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PS/1 How Much?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

there are many models of ps1 computers, that its hard to say. the first 2011/2121/2123 were of proprietary nature, and later ps1 types were just standard 486 pc types. later models had power management and suspend functions like laptops do. if its a 2011 or 2121 type make sure the monitor works, since the cpu gets it power from there. In a message dated 2/4/98 2:44:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, photze(a)batelco.com.bh writes: << I don't know if he was willing to GIVE IT TO ME. Anyway, what's a "garden variety" PS/1? What are un-garden variety PS/1's? >If it's a garden-variety PS/1, strictly he should pay you to take it, but >you can be a nice guy and let him give it to you. After all, that way it's >off his hands. >>

28 years, 2 months

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Mid-Atlantic Antique Computer Club

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Thanks to all who responded to my request to form an east coast antique computer club. I've enjoyed corresponding to you all and will stay in touch. Would still like to meet more old computer enthusiasts. Marty Mintzell 5635 Heming Avenue Springfield, Virginia 22151 703-569-2380 marty(a)itgonline.com

28 years, 2 months

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slipping sticks

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Aluminium galls too bad to use with aluminium against aluminium. and it I used to used a aircraft silicone lube on mine and cleaned it periodically. Otherwise it would bind annoyingly. <been a lot of slide rules made of it. My MB_4 and EB-6 aircraft navigati <slide rules are both built of it. My dad had an old (K&E ?) rule that's <also aluminium. I may add that it depends on the alloy too. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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slipping sticks

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK, well, about to enter high school, I've got this to say: 13 is for 7th-8th grade, so it's 14 minimum for high school. There are, of course, exceptions, like in Kansas and Florida they enter school a year older, etc. Actually, here, in 7th grade, we've got 2 14 and one 15 year old(s). And, people ARE much smarter, but they didn't learn anything in school, if they're like me. (Sam alert...) ;-) Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Kaneko <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 8:38 PM Subject: Re: slipping sticks > >>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a > >>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt > >>loop. ... > > Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? > > Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high > school"? > The age range for highschool in the US is 13 - 19 (approx). You usually enter around 13 or 14, and finish four years later (older but in general, not much wiser). 8-P Present company exepted, of course . . . . Jeff

28 years, 2 months

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slipping sticks

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a >>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt >>loop. ... Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high school"? At school slide rules were the only permitted calculating machines in maths classes up to age 16 in my day (academic year 1982-83) (requirement was dropped a couple of years later). I went through a series of cheap plastic ones and ended up with an expensive plastic one - I asked the local stationers for a replacement cursor and they sold me this really nice slide rule for the same price (one pound) just to get rid of it! This too has lost its cursor, tho' I believe I still have the rule somewhere. More recently I bought a decent wooden one for a similar price at a car boot sale - still in box with plate glass cursor. I also have a special purpose cardboard one with two slides that is meant to calculate the flow of water through pipes of various sizes, materials and gradients. >>700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. Wow! On a 7 foot rule you should be able to get four sig. figs without too much interpolation anywhere along the length. Or are the markings too coarse for that? Philip.

28 years, 2 months

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VMS distribution?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

If only there was a mechanism to persuade companies to allow such hobby use of archaic software. It would be great if there was a standard document, perhaps similar to that OpenVMS license, that would eliminate the guilt from violating someone's copyright. "What's the harm" isn't good enough for me. To me, preservation of the rights of the old software is almost as important as the software itself. But it's not easy. It may be impossible. You can get an old system from a dumpster and if you're lucky you find floppies and the manuals. Take an example from one of my pet projects, the Terak computer. Terak was sold to CalComp, and CalComp was bought (or was always owned) by McDonnell-Douglas. The last anyone saw of the Terak assets was a semi driving from Scottsdale to New Hampshire. This Herculean task now consists of finding someone within MD who has the time and the good will to care, and who's been around long enough to know what the heck I'm asking for. Then I've got to persuade them to give me the right to, oh, copy some fifteen-year-old floppies for someone without a legit copy, or to write an emulator that uses the code and allow others to get a copy. I've long heard that some varieties of dark-side hacking involve Social Engineering that can open a door or shoulder-surf a password, but I doubt it's powerful enough magic to persuade a defense contractor to sign a paper to give you something for nothing. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 2 months

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Places not to put a soldering iron...

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

My Mac Portable has 2MB RAM, 1MB soldered on and 1MB on an expansion board. This board has room for more chips, which, if added, would make the board a total of 3MB. The problem is that the board has chips on both sides, so that the little legs stay on the surface, instead of going through. Can I technically solder on the chips by myself, or is it unrealistic? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

About how much would it cost? (Assuming you can get them...) -------

28 years, 2 months

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VMS distribution?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<If only there was a mechanism to persuade companies to allow such hobby <use of archaic software. It would be great if there was a standard OpenVMS archaic? It's a current product and definatly a high end OS and it includs DECnet networking. Unlike DOS VMS is richly packaged with tools, utilities, libraries, editors, VMSmail, DCL command line language, macro32 and DECwindows client and server. <document, perhaps similar to that OpenVMS license, that would eliminate <the guilt from violating someone's copyright. "What's the harm" isn't Keep in mind while they grant a hobby license it's for 1 full version level behind. DEC policy was sofware that old is unsupported but the copyright is still valid. Still V5.4->v6.1 systems are still good for production work. There are still systems in production use still running them. Often the problem with "abandoned" software is finding the oner of record or who it is. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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slipping sticks

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? No idea, here in the lat 60s and early 70s they were one step better than plastic but not as expensive as the bamboo or mahogany ones. <Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high <school"? approx 15-18 years. <At school slide rules were the only permitted calculating machines in <maths classes up to age 16 in my day (academic year 1982-83) In the late 60s and early 70s slide rules were permitted where the calculated value was part of the answer for geometry, trig and calculus 90% of a given problem was the work and 10% the actual numeric result. In the technical (EE world) it'was expected you knew how to run a slipstick and answers were expected to be accurate to three places plus correct exponent. I was the first one to bring an electronic (pocket almost) calc but I still kept a 7" stick for quick trig functions. <boot sale - still in box with plate glass cursor. I also have a special <purpose cardboard one with two slides that is meant to calculate the <flow of water through pipes of various sizes, materials and gradients. I still have a few special ones including a plasticized paperboard one for coil spring design. The 15" I have is good to 5 places on the left and 4 on the right for basic finctions, trig and logs were good to 4 and 3 places. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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slipping sticks

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

-----Original Message----- From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk <Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, February 07, 1998 2:09 AM Subject: Re: slipping sticks >>>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a >>>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt >>>loop. ... > >Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? Almost ALL Pickett Slide Rules are aluminium. [snip/snip] >>>700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. > >Wow! On a 7 foot rule you should be able to get four sig. figs without >too much interpolation anywhere along the length. Or are the markings >too coarse for that? The 7' rule is simply a blown up version of a 12" rule. Everything 7 times bigger. Sure, you can estimate a bit better, but you wouldn't really want to try to calculate with this thing. Its massive!! PS: Brand new Pickett ES500 rules (quite nice model) can be had for US$25 at the Gemmary. Tell them I sent you ;) Cheers Andrew

28 years, 2 months

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slipping sticks

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Andrew, > PS: Brand new Pickett ES500 rules (quite nice model) can be had for US$25 at > the Gemmary. Who? Where? Seriously, I've never heard of the Gemmary - can you give a bit more info? $25 is reasonable for a nice slide rule, I agree. Philip.

28 years, 2 months

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VMS distribution?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> My friend (and I, for that matter), would never condone software piracy, > in all seriousness. However (again, hypothetically speaking of course) > my friend would have a lot of trouble understanding how posessing and > running an old, obsoleted version of VMS would bring harm to anybody or to > any organization. He might also be very disappointed that there were no > available inexpensive hobbyist licenses available, which, if one existed, > he would certainly jump at and support with his own hard earned money, > quite happily. If your hypothetical friend lives hypothetically in the United State of hypothetical America, he might, hypothetically, spend some time searching http://www.dejanews.com/ for the original hypothetical hobbyist VMS license announcement, which would (hypothetically) include a URL pointing at a place to obtain a hypothetical CD-ROM distribution. Your hypothetical friend would then, hypothetically, be reduced to finding someone willing to copy said hypothetical distribution files to hypothetically blank TK50s (hypothetically, some extra work would have to be done to build a hypothetically bootable standalone backup tape as well). I'd supply the URL, but I don't have it handy and I don't recall it offhand. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 2 months

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Dec/Vaxstn 3100, and source in SF

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Is there a difference between a DecStation 3100 and a VaxStation 3100? <saw some of each today at one of my favorite money pits (escaped for unde <$200 today!). Are they Vaxen or something else? I'm not too interested <(I'm an HP 3000 guy). DECstations is MIPS (R4000 I think) cpu and VAXstation is VAX powered. What do they get for the oddball SCSI-68 to SCSI-50 cable Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Tape Backup Software ?'s

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> wrote: >Does anyone know of a MS-DOS (pretend it's a 10yr+ old version) compatible >backup program that can handle a SCSI DAT drive? I have *not* been able to >find one. If you know of one, would you know where to find a copy now? I use a circa 1992 "ASPITAPE.SYS" driver I got from Compuserve to drive SCSI DAT and Exabyte under MS-DOS. I even had a 'tar' that worked with it. I'll find them and send to you in e-mail if you like. It was made by Greg Shenaut. In the docs his e-mail address is listed as marva4!gks1!greg(a)ucdavis.EDU . Now there's a blast from the past, if you want to keep this thread on topic and explain e-mail in the Old Days.

28 years, 3 months

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VMS distribution?

by sethm＠loomcom.com

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28 years, 3 months

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VMS distribution?

by sethm＠loomcom.com

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28 years, 3 months

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Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<You're in high school right? Is there any chance that when you graduate <you'll want to come out to California to work for me? I don't know if yo Hi, I'm interested... ;) Around MA they want a PHD to hack stuff like that now. Right Now I'm hacking a DEC vt180 z80/cpm card to run stand alone (without the vt100 case and power), Z280 design and a PC keyboard to ascii translator (8749 or 8742) to fit my needs for the z280 system. Fortunatly it's not a dead skill. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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VMS distribution?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Here's a completely hypothetical situation for you: Here I'll make it simpler. Your can get (US residents currently) For free a decus basic membership, then get a VMS hobbiest license. Now, for a modest $30 you can get a CDrom with VMS versions 5.4 though V6.1 on CDrom for hobbiest use. (Current is either 7.1 or 7.2). So if you happen to find an old vaxen with VMS and a valid key it's likely cool. If you need a key for said beast you know where to get it(www.decus.org). The CDrom would be read/bootable on a vax (VMSfile system) so a RRD40/RRD50 or scsi compatable CDrom for a VAX is needed. now if you didn't have said CDrom drive but had the disk someone with a vax can cut a tape from it or just give you the savesets for any version from 5.4 through 6.1 and you would use the DECUS provided hobbiest license key. <Would anyone care to venture a hypothetical answer? :) Was the above hypothetical enough. <Also -- no longer speaking hypothetically! -- let's say that I (myself) <wanted to get a distribution of NetBSD on TK50 tapes. Is there anyone <in the group who could send it to me, in exchange for fresh virgin blank <TK50 tapes? Unfortunately I have no way of writing the available TK50 <images to tape myself, or I would. Check with the crowd on the PORT-VAX list. (check the NetBSD web page for help). Allison

28 years, 3 months

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VMS distribution?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

> My friend (and I, for that matter), would never condone software piracy, > in all seriousness. However (again, hypothetically speaking of course) > my friend would have a lot of trouble understanding how posessing and > running an old, obsoleted version of VMS would bring harm to anybody or to > any organization. He might also be very disappointed that there were no > available inexpensive hobbyist licenses available, which, if one existed, > he would certainly jump at and support with his own hard earned money, > quite happily. So, you and your friend might want to webulate over to http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html for starters. Hope this helps. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

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Slipsticks (was: Re: greetings)

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

> I still have my circular slide rule from high school and even use it on > occassion. I won't say when I got it but it was before HP released the -35 Well, I learned the slipstick in '68.

28 years, 3 months

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Slipsticks and calculators and a clock

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

> $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? > > Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 > (8bigit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. What was the model number? I got my SR-10 in '74, my first year of college. Still have it, somewhere. manney

28 years, 3 months

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IBM Archive

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Well, this one's not really good at all, but try http://www.can.ibm.com . -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison <mallison(a)konnections.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 2:53 AM Subject: IBM Archive >Anyone know where there's a good IBM program and/or doc archive that >goes back beyond last month? Really into the 80's Looking for original >PC stuff... > >Thanks, > >-Mike

28 years, 3 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 316/ programming eproms

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<2708 (looks like 12 volts according to a spec sheet in one of my <books.) 2708 is three voltage for operation (+5, +12, -5) programming is for programming CS/ must be 12.0v and program pulse is 26v <2716 25 volts 27c16 12.5 TI2532 25v differing pinout and programming spec. <2732 25 volts <2732A 21 volts <2732B 12.5 volts <2764 21 volts <27C64 21 volts <2764A 12.5 volts Later ones are generally 12.5v. Some require different Vcc when programming as well. Also the part numbers given do not always match given vendors for a stated programming voltage Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Tape Backup Software ?'s

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Does anyone know of a MS-DOS (pretend it's a 10yr+ old version) compatible backup program that can handle a SCSI DAT drive? I have *not* been able to find one. If you know of one, would you know where to find a copy now? Failing that, how about a windoze 3.11 program? Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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Slipsticks (was: Re: greetings)

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

> Forgive me, but I've sinned... :) > I had a circular slide rule, but I never learned to use it. > It's buried somewhere in my collection of junk, I think... > I'll go look for it tonight. Anyone have directions for it's une anywhere? If you can't find them, e-mail me and I'll tell you how. It's just like a straight one, but wrapped, with 2 cursors. Clear? <g> manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 3 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 316

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: Bill Yakowenko <yakowenk(a)cs.unc.edu> Subject: EPROM programming voltages >Can anyone point me to an on-line reference showing the necessary >voltages for programming various EPROMs? I'm especially interested >in the oldies-but-goodies: 2708, 2716, 2732, and 2764's. In >particular, it seems some of them want 25v while others want only >21v, and I suspect that even the same chip number from different >manufacturers may want different voltages. 2708 (looks like 12 volts according to a spec sheet in one of my books.) 2716 25 volts 2732 25 volts 2732A 21 volts 2732B 12.5 volts 2764 21 volts 27C64 21 volts 2764A 12.5 volts Source: EPROM Programmers Handbook for the C64 and C128 by CSM Software. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 3 months

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Does anyone know what power supply the Hanimex Pencil II uses?

by scott＠isd.canberra.edu.au

I have recently bought a second-hand Pencil II computer. This machine was made in the mid-eighties by Soundic Electronics. I have heard it was distributed my Hanimex, although there's no indication of this on the computer itself. Its microprocessor is an NEC Z80 clone, and it appears to have 16Kb RAM. The case is light grey and black, with dark grey alphanumeric keys and light grey cursor and function keys. Its BASIC comes on a cartridge which is inserted in a slot in the top right-hand corner of the unit. You can see a picture of it at http://www.insset.u-picardie.fr/museum/english/pages_museum/hanimex.htm (the only mention of the machine I've found on the Web). Unfortunately I do not have a power supply or any documentation for it. Could anyone tell me what the pinouts for its power supply are (the power socket is a four-pin DIN socket)? Thanks in advance. Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |"Sometimes the need to mess with their heads| |Information Services Division| outweighs the millstone of humiliation." | | University of Canberra |__________Fox_Mulder_"The_X-Files:_Squeeze"_| | scott(a)isd.canberra.edu.au |http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/home.html |

28 years, 3 months

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Slipsticks and calculators and a clock

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

: ><>My first one was the SR-10...the ><>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? Allison wrote >Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 >(8digit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. Kip wrote: >But that WAS the SR-10. I was reading through this quarter's issue of the International Calculator Collector. (The cover story is about the 30th anniversary of the world's first "pocket" calculator- TI's "Cal-Tech" prototype) They print an excerpt from Electronics magazine dated July 3,1972 that said that TI was test marketing their first calculator - The Datamath in Dallas and Houston, selling for 149.99. Another excerpt from a TI press release dated September 21,1972 states "A line of three new calculators introduced today marks the formal entry of Texas Instruments into the electronic calculator market. The three new calculators are the TI-2500 portable calculator and the TI-3000 and TI-3500 desk models." According to TI's calculator history page (Check out http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/calchist.htm) the TI-2500 DataMath came out in 1972. And the SR-10 came out in 1973. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum =========================================

28 years, 3 months

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IBM Archive

by mallison＠konnections.com

Anyone know where there's a good IBM program and/or doc archive that goes back beyond last month? Really into the 80's Looking for original PC stuff... Thanks, -Mike

28 years, 3 months

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9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts

by cfandt＠servtech.com

At 09:48 05-02-98 -0500, William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wrote: >> Sounds about right. 11A at 230V is 2.5 kVA, which will do 1.8kW at 0.7 power >> factor (typical for a rectified mains power supply) with ease. >> >>> Still dumped alotta heat! :-) We got cheap electricity in this town.$0.036 >>> per KWH vs. about $0.08 or more per KWH outside of the area. >> >> Even $0.08 is less than we pay (typically $0.11). But we can get dual >> tariff systems which charge us the same peak rate and less than half >> that off-peak for heating etc. But I digress. > >This sounds like a perfect time to get on my soapbox concerning big >computers and electricity! > >Lets say you have this wonderful IBM mainframe and wish to use it. When >you add up all of the DASDs, maybe a terminal or two, perhaps you end up >with a 3 kW system. Now run that value thru your electric bill. I think >that you will find that a night of hacking on your system will cost less >than a ticket to a movie! Certainly more _fun_ than some of the films that have been released for sure! The wife will not agree though. But if one of us had a large old S/360 or S/370 in our basements, the power consumption would financially kill us (because of the water chillers for cooling, current consumption of older technology electronics, etc.) I'd love to even _see_ a large S/360 and all its utilities. > >And I must admit that I am suprised that the CPU sucks so much. I suppose >if some of the memory was taken out, it would be quite a bit less. My >Sun-4/280 draws a hell of a bunch, but it has 32 megs of 41256 DRAMS, >each one sucking a little bit. Just removing 24 megs from it drops the >power consumption greatly. Only one 8 Meg board installed. Maximum, IIRC, was 16 Mb storage. DASD was probably used as workstation storage. Philip, can you confirm any of this >from your sales literature? If you're interested, William, I can give you the lineup of PC board modules in the CPU which I briefly talked about earlier in the thread. - Chris -- -- ======================================================= Christian Fandt Phone: +716-661-1832 -Office ACU-RITE INC. +716-488-1722 -Home One Precision Way Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax Jamestown, New York 14701-9699 USA email: cfandt(a)servtech.com

28 years, 3 months

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9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

I had a trip down memory lane yesterday - I cleared a path to the filing cabinet and got out my old IBM glossy leaflets. As well as things like "IBM 3090 - the Base for Growth into the Nineties" I found a couple of things on the 9370 series. I also found some stuff on PC graphics platforms and 3270PCs (of which more in my next). > At 12:30 03-02-98 -0500, William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wrote: >> >>Just because the sticker says 30 amps does not mean it will draw that >>much! In general, those ratings are worst case (a fully blown system), and >>includes some safety factor (as well as some surge). > > Oh I already knew that, William. A 30A breaker works out fine to handle the > six 9332 DASD units (IBM's accronym for these type of hard disks for some > of you other observers), 9345 tape drive, rack power controllers and the > 9370-60 CPU. Ah. A 9375. Despite my joke and William's response, a 9375 model 60 has the highest power consumption of any in my catalogue, at 1.8kW - enough to heat a room, if not a house. (FWIW DASD = Direct Access Storage Device) If you are interested in operating systems, those listed for the model 60 were: VM/SP VSE/SP IX/370 (The AIX you were asking about) MVS (which won't run on the 9373 (model 20) or model 40.) There were also integrated packages carrying their own environment based on VM, which was then called VM/IS > Can't recall exactly, but total draw was about 11 to 12 amps or so when I Sounds about right. 11A at 230V is 2.5 kVA, which will do 1.8kW at 0.7 power factor (typical for a rectified mains power supply) with ease. Still dumped alotta heat! :-) We got cheap electricity in this town. $0.036 per KWH vs. about $0.08 or more per KWH outside of the area. Even $0.08 is less than we pay (typically $0.11). But we can get dual tariff systems which charge us the same peak rate and less than half that off-peak for heating etc. But I digress. Can't wait to work more with the system later this year if the wife has no additional remodeling in the new house for me to do :-( Have fun! Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> At 13:15 13-01-98 -0500, William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wrote: > >>> Me too! But I think a 4381, say or even a 9370, would be easier to work >>> on. >> >>Getting a 9370 should not be a problem - they are dogs that really were >>not sucessful. I have seen quite a few in the scrap yards (none suitable >>for taking, however). > > I'll agree it's no problem. I got the old 9370 from my company setting at > home. Paid an official $1 to act as a transfer of ownership. It's just > barely a classic now. Obsolete as heck -not too long after we paid $200k+ > for it in '86/'87. Lot of Tylenol used to sooth aching back muscles when I > dragged it home piece-by-piece. (Should have seen the wife look at me...) Strange how people in different (geographical) areas find different machines. In the [year + 2 vacations] I worked for IBM, I never saw a 9370 at all. It was released at about that time - I grabbed some marketing leaflets which I believe I still have - and I thought it looked an interesting system, but I never saw one :-( > It's a dog, but nevertheless, something important in the line of S/370 > lineage which I literally rescued from the dumpster. > > Notably, it is said to be the first actual production unit sold. Don't > exactly recall complete serial number, but it probably is first since it is > something like xxx0001. Will get back to the list later with SN, etc. if > anybody interested in confirming this. Fun if true. Do find out! > I need OS books (VSE, I think) and help in bringing her completely up. > Xerox, I believe, kept the OS manuals since they did all the software > maintenace under contract. IBM did hardware maintenance, of course. We used > the Xerox Business Management System (XBMS) product to run our company. Have > virtually all other hardware books and most periferal books safely at home. > > Heard that AIX could run on the 9370 under (I think) VM or something. Any > AIX and VM OS's around that I could scrounge for this iron?? I'll have a look in my marketing bumf and see what IBM were offering. Alas, I have little of a technical nature. I'd think a 9370 ought to run Phoenix/MVT at least. Do any of our Cambridge (UK) contingent want to have a go? > Have tried to bring it up at home but, apparently, lack of certain > periferals it expects to see hung off the terminal ports causes the IPL to > quit before OS completely loads. Need a guru or present-day user to help > figure this out. You know, that sort of thing _might_ be in the marketing stuff (as in, a complete system need consist only of...) since the main selling point was the small size and no need of special machine room. > Any of you folks willing to help me with this project later in the year??? Yes, but not physically, since I am unlikely to get to travel to the States again in the near future! That said, I do have a voucher to spend with Continental Airlines sometime... > Wife and I just bought another house and will not be settled until > summertime or later. I'm making provisions during my rewiring of the house > to include a 30A double-pole breaker since the 9370 takes 230V, single > phase. Will duct the air coming out of the CPU to heat the house instead of > using the furnace (just kidding, but there's quite a few BTUs dumped outta > the thing and could keep the house above freezing in the winter at least.) 30A at 230V is around 7kW - running continuously, that could keep a small house quite warm. (Typical electrical domestic heating installation in UK, four storage heaters rated at between 2kW and 4kW each, heat up for 7 hours at night, release heat slowly during day - equivalent of 3 to 4 kW continuously) Will tell the list anything more on this machine if any interest. Yes please. Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

The only piece of useful information about the 3270PC displays I could find yesterday was the resolution - 720 x 512 x 8 for the small graphics display, which I am now fairly convinced was a 5272. I don't know the scanning rates I'm afraid. Larry, you can get text on it with only one of the 3270PC display cards, which will indeed work in an XT. I'm curious that 720 x 512 (or 800 x 512) was so uncommon - it seems a logical (-ish) step up from 640 x 400. I was going to go on at length here about the PGC (PGA) and its display, since the marketing leaflet surprisingly gives a lot of info, right down to the connector pinout. But Tony got there first. Philip. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Assuming that all this is right (and I have no way of knowing as I'm using the 3270pc), I bet you could find VGA, EGA or CGA cards which could run a 3270 mode or a 5272 mode if told. It's a question of knowing what to ask and the software or firmware knowing. Someone had to be dumb enough to include it. Otherwise, what do you want for the 5272 $$? -Mike Lawrence Walker wrote: > > On 3 Feb 98 at 17:22, Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk wrote: > > snip > > > > > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > > > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > > > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > > > > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two > > > coupled long cards to run the video... > > > > > > -Mike > > > > No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are likely > > to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) > > > > The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't know > > the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. Unfortunately, AFAIK, > > it only did 8 colours. > > > > The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at emulating > > the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it that went in > > the slots either side in the motherboard. > > > > 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols > > option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not as > > a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for it...) > > > > 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points Addressable > > modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the top lefthand > > corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced the capability > > somewhat as well. > > > > It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. Pity. > > > snip > > > But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one of PS > > and APA, alas. > > > > Hope this helps > > > > Philip. > > > I've had a 5272 -23 monitor stashed for some time. Was never able to > get it working on an XT trying various standard cards and drivers, > altho it did display jumbled-up color lines so I figured it must be > the driver. IBM wouldn't/couldn't offer me any help. > From the above, it appears that I would need a 3270pc display card > and one of two add-on cards. If I was fortunate enough to find these > would it work on an XT ? > > Also I pulled an IBM DM12n501 monitor out of a dumpster. No > power cord , just a 15 pin female connector . I surmise it's some > sort of dumb terminal. So before I dump it any idea on what it is ? > > ciao larry > lwalkerN0spaM(a)interlog.com

28 years, 3 months

2
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CP/M conversion

by jfoust＠threedee.com

>Does anyone know of a conversion utiliy which will convert files from a >CP/M machine to Mac format? There is someone here willing to part with his >Kaypro 4 but needs to convert his old files first. No one's mentioned the problem that you'll also need to convert the *data* once you've moved the *files*. Which word processor created the files, and which contemporary word processor do you hope to use them in? You may need to revive the original machine or something similar in order to re-save the documents in ASCII. Conversion programs might be available, but that might cost $$$. Of course, you'll need to run 22Disk on a PC equipped with both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 floppies, then move the files to a 3 1/2 PC disk, and the Mac can read them as-is. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 3 months

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slipping sticks

by mtapley＠swri.edu

>"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here has >his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? > >manney Yo! Right here in my desk drawer. Used this one through High School (graduated 1980). The teachers cut me some slack on the 3rd digit from time to time. >No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a >magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt >loop. ... >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org Oooh, a pretty one. That's just like my "home system". >I also use a E6B ... That one is in the plane as I'm absolutely certain >it works as the calculator version of the E6B allways seems to need a >new battery. > >Allison Right - and it's fast, and the readout is visible in any lighting condition in the cockpit (if you can't read an E6B, navigation is *not* your main problem!) and you can drop it about as far as you want and it'll be OK. I have never used an electronic E6B, for all those reasons. > I know of some people with >700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. > >Cheers >Andrew Wow...I didn't think this thread would lead to massive array parallel processing *or* supercomputing...but you never know! ;-) - Mark

28 years, 3 months

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greetings

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

>the eminent slipsticker Andrew Davie wrote: <Snip> "Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here has his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? manney

28 years, 3 months

6
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DSK file format

by archive＠navix.net

Nickolas & everyone else on this thread: Again, I _really_ disagree with this tip. It shouldn't make any difference as to the name. I renamed the files to .dsk and it really didn't make any difference at all, for me anyway. Just wanted to reiterate that myself and many, many other users have not had this problem either. My $.02 CORD COSLOR Nickolas Marentes wrote: > Thanks Paul! I will add this tip onto my Web Page. Could solve many > people's problems. > > > I had some problems using the wonderful files I downloaded from > > Nickolas' web page as well, initially. I was downloading the file under > > MS-DOS, then renaming from *.zip to *.dsk, then porting it to the CoCo > > using the emulator. Couldn't get it to dshrink in any format (ASCII > > thru binary). > > > > Then it occurred to me that by renaming the file in MS-DOS, I was > > slightly changing the contents (the first few bytes of the file, I > > imagine), thus making it unuseable. The solution was to port it over > > with the .ZIP extension as a binary executable, then rename it under > > CoCo BASIC. Worked like a charm. -- _________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net | | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | |-----------------------------------------| | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421-0308 | | (402) 872- 3272 | |_________________________________________|

28 years, 3 months

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How much do 8" Floppies hold?

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Ward (and others) wrote: > > I keep an 8" floppy disk in the front of my store to amaze people ("Just > > fold it twice and stick it in your drive...it holds a lot!") > > > > Just how much do (did?) they hold? (I'm sure there were different data > > densities...just a range is all I want!) > > If I recall, when IBM first invented the things, they held right about > 128k, single sided, single density. By the time I first dealt with them > in the TRS-80 Model 2, they were packing 512k on a single-sided disk. > Later, the Model 16/6000 Xenix systems were packing 1.25M on a double > sided disk. Shortly after that, the format died in favor of 5.25HD. Fair summary, except that I'd have said 'the format lives on in 5.25" HD' - IBM introduced the HD 5.25 inch diskettes to behave as much as possible like 8 inch ones, even though that meant different magnetic properties of the oxide from conventional 5.25". And IBM had enough clout that this displaced the existing 80 track formats right out of the market. IBM PCs that have HD drives have an 8 inch disk controller controlling them. So in summary, an 8 inch disk holds as much as a 5.25 inch one, although older formats held less... Now, does anyone know how much a 14 inch floppy held? (it was 14, wasn't it?) For that matter, who else has ever seen one? We had a drive at IBM which was bigger than the PC it plugged into. The disk (I only ever saw the one!) was in a white card envelope instead of the conventional black plastic one, and the slot where the head went in was along one of the diagonals, but otherwise I remember blank-all about it. Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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Development, round II

by jfoust＠threedee.com

"Andrew Davie" <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com> wrote: >Well, since we're on this subject... how can I resist once more >mentioning... Slide Rule Trading Post Well, a fellow winner of the "Geek Site Of The Day" Award. I mention your site on my site, the Terak Museum, which won on October 16, 1996. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 3 months

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Altair 8800b + drive alignment

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Acrobat PDF versions of the Shugart SA800/801 Diskette Storage Drive Maintenance Manual can be found online at: <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~itda/frames.html> This is the page of the Internet Techincal Documentation Archive, a project with the admirable aim of securing official permissions to scan and post the documentation of archaic computer equipment. They have some Terak documents online, but not much else. If you can think of other documents that might be able to be posted in this fashion, please drop them a note! They'll do the work. You'll have to send the scans or paper to Edinburgh, though. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 3 months

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Change that URL... (pdp8a CPU picture)

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

You will have to append a / to that... (So it becomes http://209.174.127.164/pdp8/ ) Sorry... -------

28 years, 3 months

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Ehehe... I've scanned my KK8-A board! Pictures online!

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I mean, a paper is flat, and a board is (mostly) flat too, so why wouldn't I be able to scan it? Answer is, I can. It works fine. The only bug is the board is bigger than the scanner... I'll be retryin throughout the day, you can see the pictures at http://209.174.127.164/pdp8 Tell me what you think! Oh, and I wouldn't try this with anything with EPROMs on it... :) -------

28 years, 3 months

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Xenix OS

by mallison＠konnections.com

>From the Microsoft Museum 1980 Microsoft Announces XENIX OS Microsoft announces Microsoft XENIX OS, a portable operating system for 16-bit microprocessors. It is an interactive, multi-user, multi-tasking system that will run on Intel 8086, Zilog Z8000, Motorola M68000, and DEC PDP-11 series. All of Microsoft's existing system software (COBOL, PASCAL, BASIC and DBMS) will be adapted to run under the XENIX system, and all existing software written for UNIX OS will be compatible as well. ? 1998 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

28 years, 3 months

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DG's computer museum

by mallison＠konnections.com

Data General has a neat "museum" of influentional systems. Find the personal computer section at: http://www.dg.com/about/html/microprocessors.html Here's the machines they feature (with pictures) MITS' Altair 8800 (1974) Apple II (1977) Tandy TRS-80 (1977) Osborne 1 (1981) IBM PC (1981) Compaq Transportable (1982) IBM PCjr (1983) Data General's DG/One (1984) Sun 3/50 workstation (1986) Data General's AViiON AV 9500 SMP server (1989) -Mike

28 years, 3 months

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Stuff, while we're at it...

by manney＠nwohio.com

Thanks. I'm in Ohio, 44857 As I understand it, you have a complete system, with a (fuzzy?) monitor? Is there a HDD, or is that the bernoulli? Is there software? Thanks, manney(a)nwohio.com ---------- > From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: Stuff, while we're at it... > Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 9:51 PM > > Manny: > > Sorry I haven't responded, I've been in Vegas since friday am. > > The MAC stuff is yours, if you desire. The only exception is the 5mb > bernouli which was spoken for (but not yet taken) if that works out it's > gone. I do have another 20MB bernouli, but I need the enclosure, you > can have the drive though, if you like. > > Lemme know you're address and I'll check the shipping and send you back > a total for your decision. > > Thanks, > > Mike Allison > > PG Manney wrote: > > > > I'd be interested in the Mac stuff > > > > manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 3 months

2
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EPROM programming voltages

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Can anyone point me to an on-line reference showing the necessary voltages for programming various EPROMs? I'm especially interested in the oldies-but-goodies: 2708, 2716, 2732, and 2764's. In particular, it seems some of them want 25v while others want only 21v, and I suspect that even the same chip number from different manufacturers may want different voltages. Thanks, Bill.

28 years, 3 months

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Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0))

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>Now that you've said that -- how about a Centronics-type connector, with >the female end on the end of the monitor cable, and the male end recessed >into the card bracket, where it would just be another feature connector of >sorts? This exact combination, when used for parallel printers or external >SCSI, is almost indestructible. One problem with that is that the average centronics connector is wider (thicker?) than the standard PC slot allows for. I believe this may be true of Mac slots as well. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 3 months

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ALERT: Free tri-density tape drive needs rescue!

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Those of you who have been dreaming of your own Kennedy 9400, take a look at this... -=-=- <snip> -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!WCG!news.oru.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.mathworks.com!mvb.saic.com!info-pdp11 From: Dan Lanciani <ddl(a)deas.harvard.edu> Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 Subject: Kennedy 9400 tape drive available Message-ID: <199802040522.AAA06277(a)endor.das.harvard.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:22:34 -0500 (EST) Organization: Info-Pdp11<==>Vmsnet.Pdp-11 Gateway X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List Lines: 11 Xref: Supernews70 vmsnet.pdp-11:9192 I have a Kennedy 9400 drive here (Gloucester, MA) for the taking. This is a tri-density upright unit with formatted Pertec interface. It worked the last time I used it, but, as I look at it now, it appears that the backup battery on the CPU board has failed. It would likely be necessary to run through the calibration procedure after replacing the battery. (I recall doing the calibration before, so it must be in the manual. These drives have an RS232 port to control the diagnostics.) I also have an extra drive (with mechanical problems) for spare parts; they should probably go together. Dan Lanciani ddl(a)harvard.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 3 months

1
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PS/1 How Much?

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

> Not quite (at least for PS/2's). PS/2 models with a number lower than > 50 (ie, mods 25, 30, 35, 40) have an ISA (or is it EISA?) bus. 25 and 30 are ISA, anyway.

28 years, 3 months

1
0
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Slipping sticks

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

> Am I the only person > to have been brought up with a Keuffel & Esser ivory covered mahogany > rule? Also, what was the name of the manufacturer who made a bamboo core > rule? K&E made a bamboo one, too. (At least mine looks like bamboo -- it certainly isn't mahogany). I was told that bamboo has a low coefficient of linear expansion, which is why they used it. manney

28 years, 3 months

1
0
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Slipping sticks

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

> >Slide Rule Trading Post > >http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ > > > >On my site you will find a link to JavaSlide on the main menu. That's a > >JAVA slide rule I wrote some while back, so you can reminisc even if you > >can't find your old faithful. Its quite good, actually. It is -- vary well done! There are still people interested in them...I didn't know there were so many slipsticks around! (btw, I bought about 10 at an auction awhile back...still have a few left, sans cursors. Anyone want one?) manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 3 months

1
0
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Microsoft OSes

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare to a cheap version of UNIX? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

7
8
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Microsoft OSes

by bwit＠pobox.com

>The divergence from OS/2 and windows3.x was also influenced by MS getting >Cutler an OS heavy that created DEC RSX-11 and early VMS incantations. >the idea of NT was clean sheet 32bit OS with multitasking, multiprocessing >and inherant networking all of which were glueons for windows. OS/2 was >a different path from NT with a different base designer. It is interesting that many of the error messages in the pre V3.1 beta releases referred to OS/2. Maybe it was an almost clean room. bw

28 years, 3 months

1
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PS/1 How Much?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 2/4/98 5:38:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, mallison(a)konnections.com writes: << PS/2 = MCA PS/1 = EISA Agreed?? -Mike >> nope. ps/2=some ISA and mostly MCA ps/1=ISA

28 years, 3 months

1
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Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<example, certainly is. I'm not saying we don't need 15 pins; I say we ne <15 THICKER pins, and since this connector is typically the only connecto <on the back of a VGA adapter, there's plenty of room. Par of the resoning was that it should have a connector that is not like any other. if it were a standard db9 or db15 you'd have people plugging into the serial port screaming it don't work. It's bad enough that you have people that will force things no matter what. Allison

28 years, 3 months

6
7
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Microsoft OSes

by bwit＠pobox.com

>First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? Yes. >Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare >to a cheap version of UNIX? No, the first Windows NT was V3.1 which matched the current shipping version of Windows at that time. IMHO it was not even close to any reasonable version of Unix but was/is much easier to configure. Regards, Bob

28 years, 3 months

1
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Microsoft OSes

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<NT prior to 3.x was called MS LAN Manager, and didn't compare particularl <well to anything. NT prior to NT wasn't. NT was a divergent design that is non dos filesystem. LANMAN is the networking component of WFW3.11. The divergence from OS/2 and windows3.x was also influenced by MS getting Cutler an OS heavy that created DEC RSX-11 and early VMS incantations. the idea of NT was clean sheet 32bit OS with multitasking, multiprocessing and inherant networking all of which were glueons for windows. OS/2 was a different path from NT with a different base designer. In reality NT is not a stand alone OS as it requires windows as the user interface wher OS/2 it was a add on. Also the roots for OS/2 go back further and it was the DOS replacement with all the things that DOS still does not have. Allison

28 years, 3 months

1
0
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Microsoft OSes

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Kip Crosby [SMTP:engine@chac.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 2:16 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Microsoft OSes > > NT prior to 3.x was called MS LAN Manager, and didn't compare particularly > well to anything. > Hmm, couple of misconceptions there. First off, LAN Manager was a network product, not an operating system. LanMan Server ran on top of OS/2 1.x, and LanMan clients were available for MS-DOS and OS/2. LAN Manager 1.x was an OEM product and was not sold by Microsoft. It was available as 3Com 3+Open, IBM LAN Server, etc. LAN Manager 1.x was a first generation product, but LAN Manager 2.x performed well and was the first network product to capture significant market share away from NetWare, where many others had previously failed. LAN Manager 2.x was also the first network server sold directly by Microsoft. Kai

28 years, 3 months

1
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NEWS FLASH! BILL GATES HIT IN FACE WITH PIE!

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

See http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9802/04/belgium.gates.ap They even have video! This is, by FAR the best thing to happen this week! Make that this MONTH! or this YEAR! -------

28 years, 3 months

1
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Microsoft OSes, contd.

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Ok, if Xenix runs on PCs, does anyone have a copy they could send me? (Piracy won't work, I want the manuals as well) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

2
1
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Interesting. Test 0 on uVAX 3100

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I type test 0 and it says it's booting from PRA0, then gives me some display I don't know what to do with. What's this for? -------

28 years, 3 months

1
0
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Microsoft OSes

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? Yes, 286 and above as I recall. Introduced August 1984. Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? In a sense, this was OS/2. OS/2 1.x was a cooperative venture between Microsoft and IBM, with the majority of the OS/2 core designed by MS architect Gordon Letwin (ref: the 80s book _Inside OS/2_ by Letwin, MS Press). The first version of Windows NT, 3.1, arose from a difference of opinion between Microsoft and IBM over the future of advanced operating systems; a difference of opinion created by the huge unanticipated success of Windows 3.0. After the Win3.0 release, IBM and Microsoft development paths diverged, with IBM focusing on OS/2 2.x, and Microsoft on Windows 3.x. Both continued work on their 3.0 releases of advanced operating systems, which became OS/2 Warp and Windows NT respectively. Kai My opinions not Microsoft's, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: Max Eskin [SMTP:maxeskin@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 1:02 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Microsoft OSes > > First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? > Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare > to a cheap version of UNIX? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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Altair 8800b + drive alignment

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The manual/documentation I have gives a procedure you can follow (manuall <flipping the switches all the way) which is a self-test. Following the <procedure you can check if your 8800b is working correctly. Using this <procedure I tracked down several problems (loose wires to fron panel) bu <still have the address light problem. < <I'll track down the procedure and explain further, if there is any intere Having done that (owner of a 8800 early, early one) I know it well. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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How much do 8" Floppies hold?

by manney＠nwohio.nwohio.com

I keep an 8" floppy disk in the front of my store to amaze people ("Just fold it twice and stick it in your drive...it holds a lot!") Just how much do (did?) they hold? (I'm sure there were different data densities...just a range is all I want!) manney

28 years, 3 months

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Slipping sticks

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Sun Hemmi, of course. >With all of this dialogue about slide rules, I am appalled to note that >Pickett & Eckell is the only brand name mentioned. Am I the only person >to have been brought up with a Keuffel & Esser ivory covered mahogany >rule? Also, what was the name of the manufacturer who made a bamboo core >rule? > - don

28 years, 3 months

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Slipping sticks

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<At 19:20 2/3/98 -0500, PG wrote: <>"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here ha <>his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? I have my 10" white aluminum pickett handy and grab it when a quick "good to three places" answer will do. I also use a E6B which is a circular aircraft slide rule for time, speed, distance, fuel use and wind correction. That one is in the plane as I'm absolutely certain it works as the calculator version of the E6B allways seems to need a new battery. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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PS/1 How Much?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. There's this guy, in Bahrain, who's got a PS/1 386 2MB RAM, that's been "sitting in his closet." Now, he wants to know what it would be worth. I want to know what it'd be worth, too. (There's going to be arguements.... I'm sure.) Anyway, condition is currently unknown, but assumed in working condition.

28 years, 3 months

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PS/1 How Much?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Dollars, please. C'mon, I'm not THAT far away. (PS-The guy's here now... might be handy.) -----Original Message----- From: John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 10:12 PM Subject: Re: PS/1 How Much? >At 09:21 PM 2/4/98 +0300, you wrote: >>Hi. There's this guy, in Bahrain, who's got a PS/1 386 2MB RAM, that's been >>"sitting in his closet." Now, he wants to know what it would be worth. I >>want to know what it'd be worth, too. (There's going to be arguements.... > >Shekels or dollars? :) > >- John Higginbotham >- limbo.netpath.net >

28 years, 3 months

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