Yes, I'm back on JPS Internet! So far, so good. Still looking for a
replacement power supply OR maintenance print sets (read: schematics) for a
VaxSERVER 3100 (NOT A VAXSTATION -- VAXServer -- there is a difference) so
I can fix the power supply. Other than that, doing pretty good.
'The Traveling Technoid' will also be moving this month to its new home.
There may be a few days where it is inaccessible. I'll post the new
location here and on Infoseek.
Caveat emptor!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A
and the 8800B differ?
I would really like to know about all the differences
in the three.
Thanks very much,
BOB
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Here's my contribution. I must confess to not having read all the
previous ones - traffic on the list has been somewhat high and my boss
has been making noises about my spending so much time reading it :-( I
suppose I'll have to get TCP/IP on my IBM 6150 ...
My name is Philip Belben and I'm an electrical engineer by trade. I
work for PowerGen, one of the electricity generating companies formed
when the UK split up its electricity industry in 1990. I'm 30 years old
(31 next week) and still single. I live alone in a 3-bedroom house full
of computers and other electronic junk, located at Coalville, England.
My introduction to computers was when my school got a Commodore PET in
1979. Suitable pestering of my parents meant that I received a
secondhand, 8K PET for my 13th birthday in 1980. I then caught the
computing bug - I forced the school to let me take exams in computer
science even though they had no-one to teach it.
After leaving school at 18 I did a year with IBM (Marketing - UGH!)
before going to university.
At university in 1987 I met Tony Duell, who had just founded the P850
User Group to preserve old computers. I caught the collecting bug at
about that time, and I now have around 60 of the things.
Old computers is just one hobby among many, though. I also write music;
I play the organ at my local church (yes I am a Christian), and also
sing and play Piano and Bassoon; I have recently taken up photography.
I would add that my computers aren't the only thing that's old - my
camera is a Yashicaflex 635 (late 1960s?) that I bought for 6 UK pounds
(just under $10) at a charity auction. My car is a 1971 Marcos Mantis -
a British kit car of which about 32 were made and 14 are believed to
survive - which I bought two years ago because I wanted something
sportier than my 1965 Ford Anglia (I shall always regret getting rid of
the Anglia). I also have a 1948 Fordson (= UK brand name for Ford
commercial vehicles until 1950s) truck, useful for carting computers
around. When I get the truck back on the road, I intend to join the
Classic Computer Rescue Squad.
Since this is not strictly on topic, I'd better not say any more!
Philip.
<I have a three board set of Q-bus cards plus the boot ROM for a uVAX II,
<dated from 1987, which supposedly turns a VAX server into a workstation f
<DECWindows. I think it was called the GPX II kit? Anyway, the boards wo
<and I have the keyboard, dove bar mouse and cable, but no monitor. I
<believe this board set could drive several types of workstation monitors
<and was programmed for monitor type thru some of the wires in the kbd/mou
I have no clue on the rom as the microvax-II already could run decwindows.
DECwindows is a device and services under VMS. I would not mess with that
rom unless you fully identfy it and its use.
The monitors conformed to the boards not the other way round the cable
carried keyboard data mouse and RGB video for the monitor.
monitors were vr260, 290, 320.
<too? Any specs on it? Will it work in a VAX 3600?
Yes.
<Also, what versions of VMS support the GPX board? Is it still current (V
<I have a VMS 5.5 set of tapes that came with the uVAX, from the old days
<when the VMS license stayed with the CPU and DEC didn't hit you up for
<license transfers.
Most all from v4.2 and later. V5.5 would work well. FYI there is a free
license available for hobby use to US decus members.
Allison
<Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A
<and the 8800B differ?
<I would really like to know about all the differences
<in the three.
All three are 8080 and s100.
The 8800 and 8800a are esentially the same save for the A has most
of mods and improvements designed in. The number of mods are in the
dozens but include a powersupply large enough to be useful.
The 8800b is a radically redesigned front panel using proms and more
sequential logic rather that the flaky oneshots used in the earlier
version. There was a front pannel less version with a turnkey boot.
Track down the docs as it's far more to it than this outline.
Allison
On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:
> as the newest addition - a Vector 3 made by Vector Graphics Inc of California
> (I'm guessing by the 213 area code on the label). I also have older Tektronix
Russ, the Vector 3 was manufactured in Santa Barbara, California. Vector
Graphics is an interesting company, in that it was started by two
housewives in the late 70s. One of the ladies was Lore Harp. I forget
the name of the other.
I have two Vector 1's. There was also, of course, a Vector 2.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
FYI
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 05:26:24 -0500
From: shewless(a)bestweb.net
To: danjo(a)xnet.com
Subject: Wanting to sell...
I am wanting to sell a Color Computer 2. I have the basic unit, books to
it, the cassette player, the 5 1/4 floppy drive, the dot matrix printer and
all cables in great conditon. Please email me if you or anyone you know
would like to purchase it. Thanks, Ron Roberts
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BC
<IIRC the Z-80 stacks the PC after the it's been incremented. So it fills
Correct, been looking at to much C code lately.
<were only 7 bits of video RAM on that machine, so 00 displayed as 40 =
<'@'). That was a standard diagnostic test I think.
Yes!
Allison
I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no
docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came
with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this tape
drive, is it a 6250 bpi drive, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600
Q-Bus, and is it supported under VMS 5,6, or 7? Is there some kind of SCSI
adapter so I could connect it to an NT machine or an Alpha?
A longtime customer just showed up at my door with it in his pickup, asked
if I wanted it. It's clean and he says it was pulled from a running system,
but no details. It's in a nice DEC rack, like the kind VAX 3600s came in.
Is it treasure or trash?
Jack Peacock
There's a chart at the bottom of the page at:
http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MITSAltair8800.htm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Wood [SMTP:altair8800@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:13 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Altair 8800, 8800A, 8800B??
>
> Can someone educate me as to how the 8800, the 8800A
> and the 8800B differ?
> I would really like to know about all the differences
> in the three.
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> BOB
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I have a three board set of Q-bus cards plus the boot ROM for a uVAX II, all
dated from 1987, which supposedly turns a VAX server into a workstation for
DECWindows. I think it was called the GPX II kit? Anyway, the boards work,
and I have the keyboard, dove bar mouse and cable, but no monitor. I
believe this board set could drive several types of workstation monitors,
and was programmed for monitor type thru some of the wires in the kbd/mouse
cable. Does anyone know if it can run some PC type monitor? VGA, MDA, CGA,
multisynch VGA? I don't have any info on the connector pinouts, or the
types of monitors it supports. Is it mono only or does it support color
too? Any specs on it? Will it work in a VAX 3600?
Also, what versions of VMS support the GPX board? Is it still current (V7)?
I have a VMS 5.5 set of tapes that came with the uVAX, from the old days
when the VMS license stayed with the CPU and DEC didn't hit you up for
license transfers.
Thanx for any info you might have, Jack Peacock
Hi Sam,
Is this the circa 1980 Dos-ish machine from Canada? I'd be interested....is
it yours? I live just north of Orange County (Glendora) and I could go pick
it up.
Thanks,
Aaron
BTW, no pressure on that ATR8000, but did you trade it away? I'm only
asking again because there was a rumour of one on ebay that I'll bid on if
so....
At 09:34 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone in Orange County, California want a Victor 9000?
>
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
>
> Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>
>
<> That's a very good point. A TI-85 is a 6 MHz Z80,
I wonder what the odds of finding a ti-85 are and cost? They are hackable
>from what I gather.
Allison
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
>> I just acquired (5 minutes ago) a DEC TU80 open reel tape drive, but no
>> docs. There is a 3rd party Q-bus card (Distributed Logic Corp) that came
>> with it, cables seem to line up. Does anyone know anything about this
tape
>> drive
>
>Sure - it's a rebadged CDC Keystone, Pertec formatted interface.
Is that the same interface as a TS05? I have a TSV05 Q-bus controller, same
dual 50 pin cables.
>>, can it work in a MicroVAX II or VAX 3600
>> Q-Bus
>
>Sure. Is the card a DQ132?
It's a DQ152, rev A, dual wide Q-bus card, with 2 50 pin ribbon connectors.
It uses an 8097 controller CPU (part of the MCS-96 family if I recall
correctly), 14.745Mhz xtal (an odd speed, something Pertec related?), a
couple gate arrays (Q-Bus and Pertec interfaces?), an EPROM, and a 2063 type
static RAM. Circuit board has a 1986 copyright date
>*Do not* plug the Dilog card into a Q-bus if the board number begins with
>DU. That would be a Bad Thing.
Customer doesn't have any Unibus machines, I thought of that
The board has one jumper block, I assume for the CSR address. It's a single
in-line 10 pin header, with pins 2 and 3 jumpered together. Might someone
have the settings for this? If not I'll try the VMS newsgroup.
Does anyone have an extra ISA or MCA SCSI card? I have a pair of
80MB macintosh hard drives that I want to use...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
They are marked 2102A
Indeed... 8212
Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A
Now is a good time to ask the list for advice on what to do BEFORE applying
any power to this machine. I consider this one quite historical, and don't
want to any damage. What are the things I should check?
Cheers
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, March 05, 1998 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>> Datanumerics DL8A web page...
>> http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html
>
>Nice pictures. Are those white ceramic 2101's or 2102's in the back of
>the board? Are the 24-pin chips by the ribbon cable connectors Intel
>8212's, by any chance? And it's hard to tell from the pictures, but
>are the big chips near the RAM banks EPROM's or PROM's?
>
>A few people have remarked at the similarity of the front panel to the
>Altair, but that's hardly surprising: they're both just straightforward
>displays of the status signals available on the 8080A...
>
>Tim.
>
<garbage confined to the last two lines of the screen? (I'll have to go
<dig up my close-up screen shots photos). If so, this could mean a dead
<video ROM.
That would also be least likely as the device used is a mask programmed
component.
Sounds more like the cpu is starting up and then crashing either due to
soft bits in rom or more likely some dead ram(or the bus logic that)
connects the cpu to the ram and rom.
FYI: if the VDM1 (display board) is not accessed by the cpu or the cpu
runs amuck it's contents will be trash. If the cpu is getting nothing
or starts executing from a location where there is no memory the cpu
stacks itself to death and fills the screen (VDM1 is memory mapped).
The reason is an open bus (no memory addressed at all) = RST7 instruction
0ffh and it does a jump to 38h and starts executing from there and if
nothing answeres at that address the same thing repeats itself, each cycle
the return address is put on the stack and it fills memory with 00h, 38h.
Allison
On 1998-03-03 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:The PMOS one needs somewhat strange supplies (+5V and -7V from
:memory). I can probably find more data if you need it. I certainly
:have the SC/MP instruction set, etc.
we'd like that, please...
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com>
>They are marked 2102A
>Indeed... 8212
>Eproms or PROMS? They're marked C1702A
>
>Now is a good time to ask the list for advice on what to do BEFORE applying
>any power to this machine. I consider this one quite historical, and don't
>want to any damage. What are the things I should check?
>
>Cheers
>A
>
2102s are 1Kbit x 1 static RAMS, the memory of choice in the 70's, power
hungry but easy to design with. An Intel 8212 is an 8 bit latch (should be
a 24 pin DIP), commonly used on 8080 boards to latch some control signals.
1702s are 256 x 8 (2Kbit) EPROMs, a real pain to program, that's probably
where your boot code is.
Jack Peacock
Thanks for the the glimmer of hope. Count me in for an order. Any
assistance Lee can offer would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to get
this Sol up and running in as original condition as possible.
Marty Mintzell
email: marty(a)itgonline.com
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 4:40 PM
At 13:14 3/4/98 -0500, Marty wrote:
> Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying
> the > prompt....Anyway, if roms go wrong
> is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)?
Not at present, but Lee Felsenstein and I keep talking about burning some
new ones if we find a fab that would do a short enough run. Lee says
they'd be less than $50 each.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
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From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
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Thanks for the response Jim. I'll check this out tonight and email
results tomorrow morning. I don't recall a pattern but will look for
that tonight.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 2:56 PM
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
> Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying
> the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I
> haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong
> is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)?
Hmmm... gets me to thinking. Is there any pattern to this "garbage"?
(same characters repeated, etc.) The character display is read directly
out of the 1k of video ram (term used VERY loosely) in the system (static
ram, no refresh issues), and a bad RAM chip or dirty socket can often show
up like this.
This does assume that you are actually getting the SOLOS prompt (">"). If
what you are seeing on the display is a repeating pattern of a graphic and
a 9 (think that is close) which seems to flicker a bit, this would
indicate a problem with the 'Personality Module' or surrounding circuitry.
(ROM bad/missing, module bad/missing, etc...)
Also, is the image otherwise stable? (not rolling and such) If so, then
the bulk of the video sub-system is more or less ok.
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
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From: James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.131410.1767.85773(a)smtp.itgonline.com>
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While my Telebit modem issue was resolved by several nice
classiccomp mail list subscribers, here is the responce I recieved
>from the original manufacturers (actually, the new owners of the
original manufacturers). I have to say, here's how to build brand
loyalty....
--jmg
------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 18:15:23 +0100
From: Christoph Meyer <cerm(a)router.de>
To: maynard(a)jmg.com
Subject: Re: Telebit Zoom FAXModem
Sorry,
we don't support Telebit equipment any longer.
cerm
- --
TLK Kommunikationssysteme GmbH (http://www.router.de)
Christoph Meyer (mailto:cerm@router.de)
Geiststr. 68
48151 Muenster
Germany
Tel: +251/97 256 70
Fax: +251/97 256 79
------- End of forwarded message -------
Damn!
Thanks Sam. The video garbage is all over the screen, even overlaying
the > prompt (I'll have to fire this up tonight to double-check as I
haven't had at this machine for a few days). Anyway, if roms go wrong
is there a source for replacements (wishfull thinking)?
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 12:39 PM
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
> I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
> there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
> of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
> package) have failed thus far.
This sounds suspiciously similar to what the screen looked like when
Felsenstein & Marsh fired up the Sol-20 prototype at VCF 1.0. Is the
garbage confined to the last two lines of the screen? (I'll have to go
dig up my close-up screen shots photos). If so, this could mean a dead
video ROM.
Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
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From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
In-Reply-To: <1998Mar04.084954.1767.85660(a)smtp.itgonline.com>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
>It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they
>marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not
>very common over here.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
The Sorcerer was marketed in Australia by a nationwide group called "Dick
Smith Electronics" which was a pioneer in the home computer market here in
many ways. They also sold a TRS80 Model 1 clone called "Dick Smith System
80", the "Dick Smith VZ300" (and others in its family I think), and the
"Dick Smith Wizard". The latter is a strange machine in which the two
paddles, when placed in their slots in the console, make up the two halves
of a QWERTY membrane keyboard, with games providing slide-on overlays for
the paddles such that the game controls activate the membrane keys
underneath. I am not sure if these (other than the Sorcerer) were just
re-badged models from overseas, or commisioned by "tricky dick" (he
advertised a lot, became very rich, then became a sort of Richard Branson
adventurer and philanthropist, and he is actually now head of our civil
aviation authority, and some now want him as the first President of
Australia if we ever become a republic!)
I have here a data sheet for the Sorcerer from 1979 or 1980 in which the 8K
machine cost $A1295 and the 16K cost $1395. The only extras advertised then
were a cassette recorder for $A35 and the monitor for $A150.
>from Brisbane, Australia
Phil Guerney
Here's a stretch. If anybody has a Helios II disk drive available for
sale or trade I'd be eternally grateful. If Gary has any spare Persci
drives I would be grateful to get one of those also. I have recently
acquired a Sol-20 and have a NorthStar controller with a 5 1/4" floppy
drive (which I haven't got up and running yet).
I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
package) have failed thus far.
Thanks for any help or hints-
Marty Mintzell
email: marty(a)itgonline.com
<
< I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
< there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
< of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
< package) have failed thus far.
Before you mess with CPM and disks get the SOL running! The screen of
garbage is either a broken VDM-1 (video card) or the CPU is out to lunch
do to a memory problem or other system fault.
Pull the disk controller out and get to the minimum system and trouble
shoot from there.
Also the Native os for the northstar controller is NS*dos not cp/m it
is possible that the version of cpm can be configured for the NS*
controller but not the terminal IO used in the SOL so it would boot
and do nothing.
FYI: the most commonly replaced part is the CPU as it's is always
socketed. The least often failed part is the CPU!
If I were nearby I'd offer to help.
Allison
Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote:
> However they are compatable at the DOS level.
Be careful how you use those words. I'd say that about the HP 110 and
150. A program written using MS-DOS services only (vs. direct
hardware access or BIOS services) stands a good chance of running
across both, as well as the IBM PC.
-Frank McConnell
>80", the "Dick Smith VZ300" (and others in its family I think), and the
>"Dick Smith Wizard". The latter is a strange machine in which the two
>paddles, when placed in their slots in the console, make up the two halves
>of a QWERTY membrane keyboard, with games providing slide-on overlays for
>the paddles such that the game controls activate the membrane keys
>underneath
I have a page up for the Dick Smith Wizzard. It is, in fact, a
Creativision - and can be seen at the following URL...
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/creativision.html
My machine has the optional keyboard (improves the feel from dreadful to
absolutely dreadful but in 3d instead of 2d), and the docked casette module.
Cheers
A
PS: Is it just me, or are others getting mail failure notifications when
sending to the list?
Great information, thanks Scott, and thanks as well to Allison. I'll
check the archives for the keyboard mail.
Marty Mintzell
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 11:19 AM
On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
> I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
> there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
> of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
> package) have failed thus far.
Is the keyboard working properly? The Sol-20 keyboard is a capacitive
unit in which pressing a key pushes the insulated side of a piece of
one-size metallized Mylar film against plates on the printed circuit
board, changing the capacitance. These pieces of film are attached to the
key mechanism with foam. Over the course of time, this foam
disintegrates, the metal backing mysteriously disappears from the film,
and pieces become detached from the keys and rattle around inside the
keyboard wreaking havoc.
If you are having problems with the keyboard (or the garbage on your
screen looks like it could be the result of stuck keys), you may want to
check for this problem. The PC board is held to the keyboard assembly
with screws and is easily removed. After removing the keyboard assembly,
you can test the machine by using parts salvaged from another capacitive
keyboard (or even a piece of foil held behind thin plastic) to complete
the "key capacitors". There are instructions somewhere on the classiccmp
archive for rebuilding a Sol-20 keyboard using a PC-clone (Keytronics?)
capacitive keyboard as a donor. It's on my relatively long list of things
to do.
--
Scott Ware ware(a)xtal.pharm.nwu.edu
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From: Scott Ware <ware(a)xtal.pharm.nwu.edu>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
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Thanks Allison. As the VDM-1 is built-in I obviously can't pull it but
will check for a bad trace etc.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/4/98 9:53 AM
<
< I've got the Sol-20 up where I can see the monitor prompt '>' but
< there is garbage on the screen which I have yet been able to get rid
< of and attempts to load off a cpm diskette (that came with this
< package) have failed thus far.
Before you mess with CPM and disks get the SOL running! The screen of
garbage is either a broken VDM-1 (video card) or the CPU is out to lunch
do to a memory problem or other system fault.
Pull the disk controller out and get to the minimum system and trouble
shoot from there.
Also the Native os for the northstar controller is NS*dos not cp/m it
is possible that the version of cpm can be configured for the NS*
controller but not the terminal IO used in the SOL so it would boot
and do nothing.
FYI: the most commonly replaced part is the CPU as it's is always
socketed. The least often failed part is the CPU!
If I were nearby I'd offer to help.
Allison
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From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Helios II disk drive - Sol-20
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Could I get a copy of the tape or a transcription?
Marty Mintzell
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/3/98 9:51 PM
At 18:31 3/3/98 -0800, Marvin wrote:
>Sam still has the audio masters for the original Vintage Computer Fair where
>Lee Felsenstein and (drawing a blank), the former president of Processor
>Technology
Bob Marsh.
>I don't recall the date they went out of
>business (1981???)
May 14, 1979.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
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From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20
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Does anyone in Orange County, California want a Victor 9000?
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
Is a TI-8x or 92 a calculator or computer? I mean, a TI-92 uses a
68000 processor, has some 128k ram, and a full (if not full-sized)
keyboard. A friend of mine is making a multitasking shell for it.
>
>At 23:10 3/3/98 GMT, you wrote:
>>(now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired
>>bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair
>>that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser.
>
>Pointy-haired bosses do NOT carry HP48's. They carry TI Math Explorers
>that they pinch off the carpet of their eighth-grader's bedroom, and
don't
>know how to use. The Math Explorer was sitting forlorn on the kid's
carpet
>because the kid saved up, bought a second-hand TI-85, and is sitting in
the
>backyard smoking a joint and hacking ZSHELL on the TI.
>
>__________________________________________
>Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
> http://www.chac.org/index.html
>Computer History Association of California
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
It arrived 10 minutes ago.
I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
Cheers
A
Datanumerics DL8A web page...
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html
Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor
Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of
business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've
been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were
actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access
time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any
information.
Thanks-
Marty Mintzell
<I could see a use for that... By making a NanoPC (?) small enough, I cou
<a console for my uVAX 2000 that I could tape (or something?) to the top o
<machine - Then I'd truly have a portable VAX!
<Maybe if I do go make creative use of batteries... Ehehe... VAX LUGGABL
<(That'd be fun for the trips to Indy! They could be driving away, and I
<hack VAX in the backseat..)
<-------
Seems the hard way to go. Try this.
Remove the RD5x and replace with two 3.5" mfm drives. Install one scsi
drive (for more space). remove power supply replace with one that
provides +12/-12/+5 from a 12vdc source. Use a laptop for terminal.
An alternate to replacing the power supply is use 12vdc to 120ac(240w)
power converter.
An alternate replacement for the PC (somewhat retro too) is to find one of
the various terminal boards sold in the early to mid 80s, add a keyboard
and a 12v monitor, tada a terminal. Most of those boards were
small (5x9" or smaller).
If your are running an OS that can use the vs2k console... use lk201 and
a small monochrome monitor that can hack the scan rates.
most of the 3100 series is in the same power needs class and could easily
be put on the road as well.
Also the qbus vaxen could be hacked for mobile use (there was a version of
the ba213/4 box that used DC power!).
Vax on the roll. Your would not be the first, the YACHT America
(Americas cup racing) back around 88 or so had a vax on board!
Allison
Now, it's not working again. Sorry, this discussion seems to be pretty one-sided. ;-)
Sorry,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: List not working?
Ok, so the list is working. Sorry.... and remember, we're trained proffesionals. Don't try this at M$.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:57 PM
Subject: List not working?
Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error...
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
(Please contact me at photze(a)batelco.com.bh if you have more info)
Ok, so the list is working. Sorry.... and remember, we're trained proffesionals. Don't try this at M$.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 4:57 PM
Subject: List not working?
Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error...
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
(Please contact me at photze(a)batelco.com.bh if you have more info)
>Nice but what would CP/M (rememberthis is 8080/z80) do with 500mb? The
>whole of multimple archives fits on a single CDrom! CP/M systems did not
>suffer code bloat so smaller devices tend t fill very slowly. Something
>under 100mb is more resonable for my project.
Don't ask me!!! I didn't know waht CP/M was until a week ago. Funny story.
I've looked all over the Internet for stuff on my II+, but found II, IIc,
IIe, etc. stuff instead. Then, I look at my school library, and I find a
84/85 edition of a kind of "computer encyclopedia", and a book called "Apple
II User's Guide", which only covers the ][ and the ][+.
>????? What are they and approximate cost.
For the 80 MB version, it's soupossed to cost around $80. Be warned, these
are 1" chips that are soupossed to contain Windows 95/98 on them (with room
for expansion, etc.) It's like a hard disk on a chip. I've only heard
about them. The advantage is relatively low cost, but definately lower
power consumption and less space. I'm trying to build a machine myself.
Right now, I'm into hardware, software'll come later. I'm thinking an ELKS
machine, or such. Where the heck can I get hardware that isn't aimed for
10,000 units? Like 1 or 2? Using IDE, probably a 386/486 chip, and I'd
need graphics, etc. Can someone please help me?
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
Hi. I recieve posts from ClassicCmp, but when I try to send it, I get a "mailbag full" error...
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
(Please contact me at photze(a)batelco.com.bh if you have more info)
I'm trying to make a "semi-nano PC" myself...
><3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is
><a standard off-the-shelf laptop IDE drive. 1.8" drives are also
>I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok.
2.5" drives arn't hard to find. A while back, Data Probe
(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales(a)dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB
notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't listed
on their website, you'd have to ask them...
And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a
re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and 40
MB versions,with 80MB coming soon...
>>The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design).
Same here.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
<(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales(a)dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB
<notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't lis
Nice but what would CP/M (rememberthis is 8080/z80) do with 500mb? The
whole of multimple archives fits on a single CDrom! CP/M systems did not
suffer code bloat so smaller devices tend t fill very slowly. Something
under 100mb is more resonable for my project.
<And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a
<re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and
????? What are they and approximate cost.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Eve Guerney
Oops, Eve is my daughter! I must learn to make sure the message gets posted
>from the correct account on this machine
I may as well take the chance and add some real demography info.
I'm new to actually collecting old micros, but I have thought about if for a
while! I have my original VIC-20, C64, Amiga500 and now also a beautiful
mint condition TRS80 Model II and an Apple ][+ and a one owner Atari 800. I
got a Coco1 and a CoCo2 this week, consoles only, but I can't get anything
on the TV from them yet so they may be just rubbish.
I'm a mid-40's scientist working in the minerals business in Brisbane,
Australia. I DREAMED of owning a Sorcerer more than anything else in the
world when a postgraduate student (graduate student to you North Americans)
in 1978, then in 1979 a PET would have done me. Money shortage kept me from
actually owning a micro until the VIC-20 dropped to $A299 here in 1982. I
joined the local Commodore Users Group and stayed with them through the C64
and the Amiga days, even becoming President of the group for two years
through the last days of Commodore while our membership finished its
shrinkage from over 1000 (in the late 1980's) to less than 50 now.
Now I am just learning the best ways of picking up and looking after these
marvellous machines. Any other Australians who want to make themselves known
to me are welcome.
>from Phil Guerney
Brisbane, Australia.
I should be more careful what I say.
It's not a clone of an 8800b. I have no idea about the 8800a.
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote:
>
>> It arrived 10 minutes ago.
>> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
>> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
>> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
>
>OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix,
>I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans
>Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975):
> http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm
>
>Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing?
>
>-- Doug
>
>
OK... while we're on off topic, ;-) Is there any way that I could get my
hands on the individual componets for making a "nano PC", prefferably just a
small one?
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's
>>On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>>
>>> I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and
>some
>>> of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a
>>> company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the
>>> DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash
>>> harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for
>>> external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard
>>> all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.)
>>
>>Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there
>>are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC
>>with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM
>>PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's
>>(new?) credit-card computer, see:
>> http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html
>>
>>To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for
>>their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try:
>> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/
>>
>>-- Doug
>>
>>
>
Re: Sorcerers down Under.
There was a strong user group base down here in the late 70s and early 80s.
I remember having a real hard time deciding between a Sorcerer and an Atari
800. I eventually chose the Atari, with no regrets. But, I seem to
remember the Sorcerer as being fairly common.
Not easy to find now, but a lot of us down under collectors seem to have one
or two (or three, but I won't tease too much).
Cheers
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Demography?
>On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Lawrence Wilkinson wrote:
>
>> I'm a fairly recent arrival to this list. I'm 34, a New Zealander, and
>> I've lived in the UK for almost 4 years.
><...>
>>
>> I started doing various programming work on machines like TRS80 &
>> clones, Sorcerer, including quite a few BIOSes for CP/M, including one
> ^^^^^^^^
>It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they
>marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not
>very common over here.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
>
> Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>
>
Here's the response from Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert". A hint of
promise, I suppose.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:34:48 -0500
From: Qs <quiksand(a)tiac.net>
To: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
Subject: Re: Hello
I will visit your web page and keep you in mind, sometimes the historical
value of things do outweigh its scrap value.
Regards,
Jim Sciuto
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: quiksand(a)tiac.net <quiksand(a)tiac.net>
Cc: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 11:36 PM
Subject: Hello
>To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert"
> http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm
>
>I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group
>of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve
>some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you
>may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines
>you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value
>you may be extracting from their circuits.
>
>I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find
>the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not
>compelling.
>
>Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts
>of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of
>would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer
>Festival web page:
>
>http://www.siconic.com/vcf
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Sam Ismail
>Vintage Technology Cooperative
>http://www.siconic.com/vcf
>
tony duell:
:>have a feeling that eventually all obsolete computer equipment in
:>britain will gravitate to chez duell...
:I wish.... There are still machines I am looking for - PDP's other
:than the 8 or the 11, a straight-8, more P800 series stuff, etc,
:etc,etc. Oh, and somewhere to put them :-)
well, the schematics for the pdp6 are available, so at a pinch you could
always rebuild one. :>
:> on the other hand, it makes the electronics more difficult, as
:>suddenly you have to design a pll that will reliably lock to
:>about 10 different data rates, rather than just one, not to
:>mention making sure the
:Not that hard. You design it as a synthesiser, of course. Probably
:not that much worse (and similar in design) to the multi-speed
:motor controller.
probably. in fact, it might even be easier, because you don't have to
worry about controlling anything physical. on the other hand, since
you'd need a speed regulator in the disk drive anyway (and iwrc they
tend to be plls) you might as well give that a range of frequencies to
chew on and keep the data transfer stuff simple.
there are arguments either way - about the only thing we would say,
though, is that software is cheaper than hardware in scrap terms, and
whereas commodore was already huge, woz was on a leguminous budget.
:> controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in
:>software, the apple probably got it right - and let's face it,
:>certainly in later
:Being a hardware hacker, I've never liked the Apple approach to
:doing everything in software, alas...
ah, but we're a software hacker, so we just love it. :> besides, there's
a certain beauty in finding that you can do something with the bare
minimum of hardware.
:There were certainly non-compatible 386 machines - didn't Sequent
:make some? (multi-processor unix boxen..) No, I don't have one -
:yet!
yes, we believe so. there were other non-compatible 386 offerings too,
were there not - eg. sun 386s...? but then it's a lot easier to make a
non-compatible 386, given its somewhat multiplicitous architecture. just
ignore real mode in the design of the hardware and you're away...
protected mode on the 286, though, should have had more made of it. it
was a missed opportunity.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
My demographics:
I'm 33 and from Sydney, Australia. I'm a Taswegian by birth, and my first
intro to computers was a gift of a 4 function calculator from my mother when
I was 10. That particular unit (a CASIO) had a problem dividing by 0 - it
tried to!! The display patiently counted from 0 up to... well I never saw
it stop before the batteries gave out. I guess thats what started my prime
interest in computers - the quirky and unusual.
Mixed with a dollop of nostalgia (it's not what it used to be), and you have
me today - a collector of just about anything that calculates and isn't too
big (we're renting). So, slide rules, mechanical calculators, handheld
electronic calculators and recently some of the early home micros and game
machines. That's my collecting field. Our house blows a fuse when I turn
on the dishwasher and the washing machine; there's just no way I'm going to
have a mainframe running here for anything over a couple of milliseconds.
I'm a programmer by nature - having earned my stripes on the console
machines of the mid to late 80s (Nintendo and Super Nintendo, Commodore 64,
etc). Mainly 6502 stuff. I'm now programming what we call Interactive
Multipath Movies - real time rendered 3D movies with which you can interact
and see story changes as you interact. Its quite neat, actually - I just
bought shares in our company.
Anyway, my other passion is lost information. I find the search for missing
information - the gathering together of widely dislocated pieces - somewhat
enjoyable. Why, just today I tracked down the original owner of my Exidy
Sorcerer. I've been known to track down the owner of a slide rule deposited
in a junk store some 20 years ago. He was rather surprised to hear from a
guy from Australia - and unfortunately thought I was a kook!
Well, maybe I am :)
I'm married to a lovely American lady, and we have two rugrats. The kids
just love circular slide rules and my little girl (3yo) begs me to let her
clean my calculators. Which, of course, I do.
I invite you all to visit my web sites, devoted to various parts of my
collecting interests...
Museum of Soviet Calculators (currently a Yahoo! and Netscape Cool LInk)
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html
Slide Rule Trading Post
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/
Weird Computing Machines
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/
I have various other sites, but not related to computing. I'm hoping,
eventually, to move back to Tasmania - the place I grew up and the place my
heart longs for. Of course, my computers and calculators will move with me.
I'm sure the wife and kids will come too :)
My collection consists of the following, and lots of widgets I forget...
Wang calculator (interesting)
Altair 8800b
Kaypro II
Exidy Sorcerers
OSI Challenger
Atari 800
Commodore C64
KIM-1
BBC
Creativision
Soviet Calculators (about a dozen)
HP calculators (nearly, but not quite, the whole set)
Slide rules
and the prize....
a Thatcher Calculator.
I welcome all emails, but warn that due to the large amount of email my
sites generate I'm sometimes less than quick to respond!
Cheers
A
adavie(a)mad.scientist.com
I snarfed this ad off some classified ads web site. Maybe someone in
Southern Cal has a truck handy....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMPLETE network system, 1 mainframe, 7 stations,
fast & reliable, great for small business, sacrifice, $350
or trade for ?
(310) 822-4052
$350
--
mor(a)crl.com
http://www.crl.com/~mor/
I made some nice acquisitions to add to the old silicon heap today.
I found an ATR-8000 ($7). The ATR-8000 was an adjunct CP/M box for the
Atari 400/800/XL computers. To use it, you plugged a special cart into
the Atari which was really just a terminal program. The Atari then acted
as a terminal to the ATR-8000 (the connection from the ATR-8000 to the
Atari was via serial cable). The ATR-8000 had external connectors for
floppy drives (since you couldn't actually use the Atari drives on the
ATR) and a printer connector. The ATR-8000 could actually be used as a
stand-alone CP/M computer if you wanted to. You could just connect a
terminal and some disk drives to it and voila, instant CP/M machine.
Which is interesting to note because...
The next find was ANOTHER ATR-8000 (!) but this time with a TeleVideo 925
terminal and two half-height dual floppy drives attached to it.
Basically, an ATR-8000 in a stand-alone configuration! Cool. But this
was even a better deal...$5 for the whole lot.
My next nice find was an Intellec MDS chassis. The ship date on the back
shows 10/77 so I imagine it is a later model than what I've seen in
pictures. The front panel has 8 interrupt switches, and a momentary BOOT
switch and a RESET switch. There's also a HALT and RUN light. There were
two cards inside...one is a Monitor Module and the other is a wire-wrap
mess that I can't figure out. I also got a bare wire-wrap card. The
chassis was slightly beat up, as some parts of the face ridges were broken
off, so I talked the guy down to $10.
I got a Momenta pen-based computer. It's shaped like a wedge. I got it
in the box but it was in so-so shape. I got two battery packs but neither
is charged, and unfortunately I didn't get the charger or wall apadtor
with it. On the box it said "For technical service call 1-800-MOMENTA"
so I called but it rang and rang. A sort of good sign I guess. I'll try
during the week and see what I get. I'd be interested to know anything
that anyone possibly knows about this thing. Circa 1991. $15.
I found a real nice book: _Microcomputer Dictionary: (Second Edition)_ by
Charles J. Sippl (Howard Samms, 1981, ISBN: 0-672-21696-5). It has some
more excellent pictures of stuff I've never even heard of or seen before.
I'll be scanning these pictures in and posting them to the web page.
Of course it also has all sorts of definitions for computer terms and
such. $1.
Next find was a this kinky little Japanse 286 box, a Sharp MZ-6500 Model
50. All the markings were in Japanese (or is that more properly Kanji?).
It had a "100V" plug as well as a strange plug that I assume is for
outlets in Japan. It has two 3.5" floppies, an ST-125 HD, and a strange
motherboard layout. It was in superb shape. Not really a classic, but
cool looking. The guy wanted to get rid of it so I got it for $3.
Other finds: a DEC VT-100 terminal for $.50 (yes, cents), and a TI-99/4a
for laughs.
It was a good day.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
I've placed the requested view on the page...
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html
The motherboard is marked REV A
The serial # of the machine is 00029
I doubt there could have been many more of these made.
Enjoy!
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Troutman <mor(a)crl.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>Andrew Davie wrote:
>>
>> It arrived 10 minutes ago.
>> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
>> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
>> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
>
>She's purdy. How about a tight close-up on the data switches and status
>lights--I've got a fetish ;)
Altair in sheep's clothing? Not a chance! Wait till you see inside!
The motherboard is organised in ROWS of chips, something like A to F
And... it's stationed at the top (ie: roof) of the machine.
Amazing amazing. Its an 8080A by the way.
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote:
>
>> It arrived 10 minutes ago.
>> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
>> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
>> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
>
>OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix,
>I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans
>Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975):
> http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm
>
>Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing?
>
>-- Doug
>
>
Hi,
Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few
descriptions on the Web,
but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to find, etc? I have an
opportunity to get one
but don't know much about them.
Thanks...Win
wheagy(a)erols.com
Hi Andrew!
I have a lead for you - Acorn BBC books and software for sale in Vic, for
$5. phone (03) 9596-6454.
Also, if you are intersted, I know of three computers for sale which may
interest you. In Vic there is an Amstrad PCW 8512 - you probably know
them, but they are word processors with CP/M compatability, reasonably
common but they can be hard to come by. And in Adelaide there are two -
a faulty Apple Lisa 2/10 (bad HD, possibly repairable) for $150, and a HP
9835 desktop computer, with 9" drive, software and connectors for $50.
Any of these interest you? If you want the Lisa I'll have to get it
soon, but I do have the original OS somewhere which I can copy off for
you, and unprotect at least the system disk - however I can't do so (yet)
with the apps. No rush with the HP, though.
Adam.
OK... while we're on off topic, ;-) Is there any way that I could get my
hands on the individual componets for making a "nano PC", prefferably just a
small one?
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's
>On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>
>> I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and
some
>> of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a
>> company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the
>> DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash
>> harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for
>> external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard
>> all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.)
>
>Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there
>are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC
>with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM
>PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's
>(new?) credit-card computer, see:
> http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html
>
>To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for
>their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try:
> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/
>
>-- Doug
>
>
I'm trying to make a "semi-nano PC" myself...
><3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is
><a standard off-the-shelf laptop IDE drive. 1.8" drives are also
>I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok.
2.5" drives arn't hard to find. A while back, Data Probe
(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales(a)dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB
notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't listed
on their website, you'd have to ask them...
And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a
re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and 40
MB versions,with 80MB coming soon...
>The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design).
Same here.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
>I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the
'6300
>was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted
>below) is a prime example.
Is it possible to somehow slap a CGA or any standard monitor into
one of those?
>>Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO.
>
>The drives they used overall were not notably better or worse than most
of
>the time. They did make some poor choices at times on who to buy their
>drives from.
>
I will say that my only experience w/a 6300 was one that got to me
because of a dead hard drive. I ended up gutting and trashing it. I
hold old microchips in the fan housing. This was also my only experience
with a dead hard drive.
Was the thing designed for UNIX or was it just a plain "enhanced" PC
clone?
P.S. In OOP, can an object kill another object to inherit it?
>---
>jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
>The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
>Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they
>marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not
>very common over here.
They aren't common here, but in Adelaide (South Australia) we still have
a Sorcerer's User Group running. I suspect that it is entirely social,
but it is there. Because Dick Smith imported them so early, it was one
of (if not the) first complete microcomputer systems available here, and
even then Dick Smith had a fairly large chain of stores. This gave it a
major advantage over its rivals (aside from the fact that it is a pretty
good system in teh first place). I also know someone who took one with
him when he went to the Antartic for 12 months. :)
Dick Smith, as I believe Andrew mentioned, sold a number of computers
here. The Sorcerer was sold as a Sorcerer, but they also sold the TRS-80
clone he mentioned (the System 80), two Laser computers (the Dick Smith
VZ-200 and VZ-300), the Creativision (the Dick Smith Wizzard), a kit
computer (the Super 80), and an Apple II clone (the Dick Smith Cat). I
was told the System 80 was a rebadged Laser, but I don't remember if they
made TRS-80 clones, and can't find any evidence to prove that the System
80 wasn't DSE's own system. The Super 80 I believe was actually theirs,
but I don't have one to check, and the Cat I assume was a rebadged clone
- I have a lead on one, but I have to go collect it. :) The VZs and
Wizzard were simply rebadged.
After a while they just started importing PC clones like everone else. I
do remember they had the one luggable, which I imagine was CP/M based,
but I'd have to do some research to find out who's it was.
Adam.
On Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:53:07 -0500 (EST), J. Maynard Gelinas"
<jmg(a)iac.net> wrote:
>>Yeah, I think you would be better off netbooting the thing via
>>bootp rather than building a bootable tape. I have a couple 3/80's
>>here at home, and there are bunches of old 3/50's lying around at work
>>(the government owns them, they'll be there till the sun explodes).
>>The 3/50 didn't support CDROM's from the PROM as I remember, so you're
>>going to have to either make a bootable tape or netboot it. Do you
>>have another UNIX or Linux box and a LAN nearby?
I have a small Windows LAN at home, but no Unix boxes setup. I guess
that this weekend I'll be setting one up...
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 01:56:54 +0000, David Wollmann <dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com>
wrote:
>>I bet if I look in storage I still have a couple of parted-out S/23s
>>from which I could lift the ROM you need. Since I'm not much on the
>>electronics side of things (I'm just a poor board-swapper) give me the
>>numbers and a general idea of where it's located in the box and I'll see
>>if I have one. May take me a couple of weeks.
It is the "09" ROS. Here's the diagram that I got from Philip Belben:
** TOP VIEW OF PLANAR SEEN FROM THE REAR **
_______________________________________________
| ====== ====== <-- NOT FOUND ON |
| | 10 | | 11 | <-- SOME EARLY |
| =3=40= =3=60= <-- MACHINES |
| |
| ====== ====== |
| | 19 | | 0D | |
| =7=60= =1=60= |
| *********************** |
| =PATCH= ====== * PHYSICAL LOCATION * |
| | 18 | | 0C | * OF ROS MODULES * |
| =7=40== =1=40= * FOR EACH ERROR CODE * |
| *********************** |
| ====== ====== |
| | 17 | | 0B | -KEY- |
| =6=60= =0=60= ====== |
| | XX | |
| ====== ====== =Y=ZZ= |
| | 16 | | 0A | XX=POD ERROR CODE |
| =6=40= =0=40= Y=ROS PAGE VALUE |
| ZZ=HIGH ORDER BYTE OF |
| ====== ====== FIRST ADDRESS IN |
| | 15 | | 09 | ROS MODULE. |
| =5=60= =0=20= |
| ---(CABLE)-------------- |
| ====== ====== | ====== | |
| | 14 | | 02 | | | 09 | CO-PLANAR | |
| =5=40= =0=00= | =0=20= BOARD. | |
| | (FOUND ON | |
| ====== | ====== SOME EARLY | |
| | 13 | | | 10 | MACHINES.) | |
| =4=60= | =3=40= | |
| | | |
| ====== | ====== | |
| | 12 | | | 11 | | |
| =4=40= | =3=60= | |
| ------------------------ |
-----------------------------------------------
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
On 1998-03-03 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:As Joe said, HP classed a lot of things as 'calculators' to get
:round daft export rules...
:IIRC, officially the HP71B is a computer (QWERTY keyboard, Basic),
:but the HP48 is a calculator (alphabetical keyboard, RPL). They use
:virtually the same processor (Saturn), although the HP48 has a few
:more machine instructions.
cx ( <- hello, from firstborn)
it's possible that marketing could have something to do with that too.
we'd rather, and we suspect most engineers would rather, use the hp48 -
but since rpl fits in well with hp's use of rpn in its calculator range,
it probably fit better into the calculator family, and would have been
more targeted at the engineers who cut their teeth on its predecessors.
:> (or do their design engineers just design things they can hack
:>between meetings? ;> )
:You mean _during_ meetings, surely...
well, we meant between design meetings, when one would assume they'd all
be focused on designing the next piece of kit they could hack during
meetings with the pointy-haired bosses... ;>
(now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired
bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair
that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser.
we've heard about hp.)
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:45:17 -0500, John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)exit109.com>
wrote:
>>suppose the first question is... what OS is on the PC? If you were
>>running some unix variant (Linux or *BSD), then you could just netboot the
>>Sun and go from there.
I think what I'll probably too is trash the HD on an "experimental" 486
that I have and install either NetBSD or SCO OpenServer. From there, I
should be able to create a boot tape and an install tape, and then start the
install from the 3/50
>>Just a thought, your might want to join the Suns-At-Home mailing list
Thanks for the SAH list. I already belong. No specific ideas from anyone
there yet.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
doug:
:Intel themselves produced non-pc-compatible 286 machines (and
:others, of course). Do we have any hypercube hackers here?
oh, yes, we'd forgotten them... does anyone know where we can *get* one,
more to the point? :> but we meant things that were more like the sirius
1 in conception - desktop machines, but not stuck with the cruddy pc
architecture.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
On 1998-03-02 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:I bought several and am toying with making a few "ultra miniature"
:computer accessories ("matchbox" computers?)
off-topic, but...
the computer we would really love to use has a main box that's the size
of 2 3.5" floppy drives one atop the other, and standing on that is a
little 6" mono crt with a resolution of 384x256. the keyboard is about
the size of the keyboard on the cambridge z88. the processor is a
hitachi 6309 running in native mode, and the software is forth. and you
have to hold the thing when you put a disk in. needless to say, there's
no hard drive, but the floppy can fit 1800 screens on it, so that's no
problem.
of course, it was never made... but we'd love to see it.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
zane healy on ge635...
:IIRC they ran either GECOS (General Electric Comprehinsive Operating
:System), or the better known Multics. I believe they are also an
they ran gecos. the ge645 would support multics, but the 635 didn't have
the paging hardware. the multics faqs make great reading, btw.
http://www.best.com/thvv/ (from memory, might be wrong, might be ~thvv)
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
tony duell:
:Another thing worth grabbing are old data books. There are standard
:chips that are used in old computers - things like the 8271 disk
:controller, the AM2900 bit-slice chips, 4004's and 4040's, etc that
:don't appear in recent data books. A data sheet will help you to
:determine if a chip has failed, and how to make a replacement if it
:has. I'm trying to obtain all that I can.
before we were seriously interested in this stuff - or rather, since we
were designing 68000-based computers at the age of 12, between interests
- we had a whole stack of data sheets donated by a teacher's boyfriend
who worked for the uk distributors of sage before they became stride.
(what happened to them, btw?) it's a damned shame that when we were
about 16 we threw the whole lot out to regain some space in our bedroom.
if only we knew then... :< we'd give anything to have them back.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
max eskin...
:I have heard enough on this topic without understanding what it
:meant! What is the difference between vector and bitmapped graphics,
:and who was first to use each? Why are vector graphics
:stereotypically used in mainframes and bitmapped used in cheap
:weenie "home computers"?
dunno about first - but in vector graphics, you have a crt under direct
control of the computer, and you tell it to go to a point, switch the
beam on, go to another point, maybe switch the beam off, etc. etc. very
high resolution, but refresh speed is inversely proportional to the
number of lines on the display. in bitmapped graphics, you use a
conventional rasterised display (the horizontal lines) and a map of
bits which correspond to each line of the display and say whether the
beam is on or off at that point. unless you count williams tubes, vector
graphics came first, because you could use any old oscilloscope and
memory was precious. now memory is cheap enough to make bitmaps viable
in even the smallest computers, and monitors are readily available. the
price paid is blocky lines.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
< Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor
< Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of
< business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've
< been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were
< actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access
< time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any
< information.
crock!
PT like many of the time were susceptable to the volitile market and
over extended and went under. Good machine and the Persci drives were
very late in the program when they were nearly gone.
I think the SOL-20 was about 10,000 before the folded.
Allison
<One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but
<have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and wha
<disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available?
The micropolos and NorthStar controllers and matching drives were common.
Most any s100 floppy or hard disk system could be used if:
=The controller would work well with a 2mhz 8080 (some DD controllers
would not).
=the controller fit in the available slots (there were only a few)
=The controller didn't use too much power
=The drive had their own power supply
Allison
The North Star setup was pretty common on the SOL. I have CP/M set up for
the SOL with a North Star disk system. You'd need a North Star controller
board, and any standard external 5 1/4" drive.
Kai
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Rachor [SMTP:george@racsys.rt.rain.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 1:37 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20
>
> One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but
> have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and what
> disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available?
>
> George Rachor
>
> =========================================================
> George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com
> Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com
>
> On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
>
> > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor
> > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of
> > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've
> > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were
> > actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access
> > time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any
> > information.
> >
> > Thanks-
> >
> > Marty Mintzell
> >
> >
Some of the drives that I've seen actually have the connectors extending
out, as if they're on a seperate piece of equipment alltogether. Now,
anyone know about what type of power connector (small, like on a 1.44MB
floppy, large, like on normal HDDs, or non-standard?) Also, is there any
way to make a 44-pin connector into a 40-pin connector (for a standard
dekstop?) Also, I've gotten into the whole mini-PC idea. So, I want to
build one. The hard drive'll probably end up being a Kittyhawk, I'm
currently thinking an x86 CPU (as little power and size as possible. I know
that the AMD Elan 400 COULD work but I haven't seen them resold, and I'd
need drivers for the built in stuff, etc.) So, if anyone has any info on
this, I'd love for them to contact me personally. (If they could put
"Building a Mini-PC" or something in the subject, so I could know that it
wasn't a ClassicCmp post...)
TIA,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk <Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 4:17 PM
Subject: Re[2]: A possible (future) classic.
>Joe on Kittyhawk drives:
>
>> Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a
>> shame that HP quit building them.
>
>Gary pointed us at a web site:
>
>> http://www.allelec.com
>
>according to which they are 44-pin IDE the same as most laptop IDE
>drives. I'm not quite sure how that would fit in such a small drive,
>but...
>
>Philip.
>
<SurplusDirect (www.surplusdirect.com) had some 40mb PCMCIA hard drives o
<sale a while back. Brand new units, priced around $20-$40, can't recall
<exact price.
I don't have data on PCMCIA and removable is not a requirement. I will
look at them if I can find data on the interconnect as it's not going into
a PC.
Allison
<3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is
<a standard off-the-shelf laptop IDE drive. 1.8" drives are also
I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok.
<Are you looking for drives that are still produced in quantity? If not,
<the Kittyhawk 20MB drive would be a good one to get (at the website
<mentioned previously).
The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design).
Allison
The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other tha
<the Dauphin DTR-1 what used it. I don't think it's the smallest though.
<Does anybody remember the Syquest SQ1100? Removable hard disks about th
<size of a box of matches. They produced them for OEM eval, but I don't
<think they ever made it to the retail channel. I have about 100 of them
As someone building a smaller z280/cpm system I'm in the hunt for a
IDE hard disk with a form factor 3.5" or smaller. I may be able to use
PCMCIA but a forsee them as too expensive. The storage can be small as
10mb and anything over 60-80mb is gross overkill(I'll take bigger but I
really dont need it). My other requirements is known good and real
cheap.
Allison
I have acquired an old "kit" computer, circa 1977. The CPU has a trademark like a double script N, slanted to the right, with one superimposed on the other. Most of the other 10 or so smaller chips have the same mark.
Adjacent to this is the number 804 (the CPU ID?) Other numbers are ISP-8A, /500D and SC/MP.
It is the size and shape of a Z80 or 8085
Anyone have any idea what this is?
Thanks
Hans
PCMCIA drives are 2"W x 3 1/4"L x 3/8"H.
Note that the SyQuest media size doesn't really count because the rest of
the drive was in the PCMCIA card (heads, motor, electronics).
I have a DTR-1 also, BTW...
Kai
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Yowza [SMTP:yowza@yowza.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 9:51 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: A possible (future) classic.
>
> On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
>
> > The Kittyhawk is pretty small, and I don't know of any machine other
> than
> > the Dauphin DTR-1 what used it. I don't think it's the smallest though.
> > Does anybody remember the Syquest SQ1100? Removable hard disks about
> the
> > size of a box of matches. They produced them for OEM eval, but I don't
> > think they ever made it to the retail channel. I have about 100 of
> them.
>
> I just got off my lazy butt and actually compared the two drives side by
> side. They are both the same width, but the kittyhawk is considerable
> shorter in length and taller.
>
> SQ1100 media: 1.8" x 2.0" x 3/16"
> Kittyhawk: 1.8" x 1 5/8" x 3/8"
> PCMCIA-II drives would need to be 3/16" tall or under, I'd guess.
>
> (measurements done with a crude tape measure.)
>
> -- Doug
I finally got the various pieces together that I need to hopefully setup
a shoebox for my 3/50. I have a copy of NetBSD on CD-ROM, the shoebox, and
60mb tapes.
My question is this: what is the best way to setup the shoebox with
NetBSD? I thought about hooking the shoebox and a CD up to a PeeCee and
trying to create a bootable tape (I don't know if this is even possible), or
copying the 68k distribution to the hard disk. If you read the FAQ on the
CD, it almost sounds like you need a bootable system to be able to install
it.
Any thoughts??
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
Hi,
I have a Sun 2/120 (actually a Computervision manufactured clone) that I
don't have room for. Condition is unknown, but it does have keyboard,
mouse, monitor and a few spare multibus boards. It is big and heavy, so
collection from Cambridge UK is preferred but I would consider
delivering to a location not that far from me.
--
Kevan
Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/
> [S/34 3-Phase?]
> Naah, can't be. It doesn't have a 3-phase plug. It's a slightly smaller
> version of the round Hubbel plug (3 pins. 3-phase needs 4, right?) on my
> PDP-11 power boxes. Mine has power in the room still, I can power it up, but
You can do three phase on only three wires - most long distance power
lines are done that way - but that would be unearthed, and therefore not
recommended. If it is a 190/208V version rather than a 220/240V version
it is probably expecting two of the three phases plus ground.
> nobody knows a userid/password to IPL it...
> Is there some way around that?
Dunno. Passwords are only 4 letters IIRC so shouldn't be that difficult
to crack if you've got a terminal emulator card in a PC. I'm afraid a
quick glance through the pocket reference hasn't revealed anything
useful :-(
Philip.
> I did actually check this. It says 208. This is not awfully
> informative, AFAIK, because the voltage fluctuates +/- 5 or so anyway
> >Open the side opposite the CE panel, and look down by the 4 twinax
> connectors.
> >There shoud be a label saying what yours is wired for - Mine wants 204V
> AC.
Voltages like 204V and 208V mean it probably wants 3-phase. These are
the phase-to-phase voltages on three phase systems where the phase to
earth voltage is 117V and 120V respectively. It may only require two of
the three phases, in which case you might be able to convert...
The suggestion of using PC power supplies or similar is a good one but
you may need something a bit more powerful. You need to know how much
current it draws on each supply rail.
I seem to recall that someone on this list has a working S/34. Could
this person measure the current under various conditions? NB 5V rail
current could be 100A or more, so don't just stick a multimeter in
series with it! Use a proper shunt and millivoltmeter.
A while back, I mentioned that I have some system/34 pocket references
available to send to anyone with a s/34 who needs them. No-one has yet
replied that I've seen. Any takers? The OS pocket reference is very
thick (nearly 100 pages IIRC).
Philip.
PS Comparing the System/34 and the 8086 is not strictly fair - the 8086
appeared in laboratory tests in 1979 IIRC, while the S/34 was already on
sale in 1977 I think. Things did shrink _very_ fast at that period!
Also the S/34 has disks, - including my favourite floppy drive! - around
256K of memory, and other I/O that would have required several PC style
boxes full of support chips, drives etc. for the 8086 in the late '70s.
<I have acquired an old "kit" computer, circa 1977. The CPU has a =
<trademark like a double script N, slanted to the right, with one =
<superimposed on the other. Most of the other 10 or so smaller chips
<have = the same mark.
National Semiconductor.
<Adjacent to this is the number 804 (the CPU ID?) Other numbers are =
<ISP-8A, /500D and SC/MP.
there is a clue in the markings.
The part numebr is ISP-8A/500D, aka SC/MP. The (D) in the part number
says ceramic package. The part is implmented in an older P-channel MOS 3
voltage technology. A faster and single voltage Nmos version was about a
year later (ISP-8A/600).
<It is the size and shape of a Z80 or 8085
That means it has 40 pins.
<Anyone have any idea what this is?
That is the National Semiconductor SC/MP cpu on likely a evaluation kit
board. there were two versions one had a calculator like terminal and the
oter used rs232/tty interface to a terminal. The rom (5204) was a very
small 512byte monitor. It was a an interesting cpu though that version
was SLOW at 2-10uS per instruction.
I like to collect these(SBCs) as they are interesting though often not
very useful as implemented.
Allison
Joe on Kittyhawk drives:
> Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a
> shame that HP quit building them.
Gary pointed us at a web site:
> http://www.allelec.com
according to which they are 44-pin IDE the same as most laptop IDE
drives. I'm not quite sure how that would fit in such a small drive,
but...
Philip.
Would anybody with SOrcerer technical information, including user group
newsletters and just about any Sorcerer documentation please contact me
directly? I'm trying to restore a pretty neato homebrew setup here and sure
could use some tech specs.
Includes a 5M hard drive, twin Micropolis drives and about 100+ disks of
software, custom BIOS mods for HD and FD access.... the works.
Cheers
A
>>I have a canon SX320!!
>You didn't mention it in your list. I did get the right machine, didn't
>I? I have a shoe-box full of program listings for it, except they're in
>NZ and the thermal paper has probably faded to nothing by now.
Yes, I checked the number this morning.
My Canon SX320 was inadvertently left out of the list, along with...
Sinclair ZX-81
(I've just ordered three unbuilt kits of these - still available NEW
on the web, would you believe!!)
Sinclair ZX-80
Sinclair Spectrum
Tandy TRS-80 MC-10 (a whacking great 3581 bytes of program memory :)
Canon 1614P (a punched card reading programmable desktop)
A couple of Sorcerers
Atari 800
Compucolor II
Datanumerics DL8A
... I've forgotten what else I've forgotten.
>Do you actually use it? I really can't remember much about it other
>than that you programmed it like a calculator, one function per line,
>and that alphanumeric output like prompts needed one line for each
>character, so program listings tended to get rather long. Did it have a
>tape storage or cartridges or something for programs?
I have not switched this machine on, actually. It is very dusty and sitting
in my office at work. I will be happy to take a pic and place on a website
should anyone be interested. It had a strange sort of tape storage - sort
of like a little toaster oven at the top right of the machine.
Unfortunately, due to multiple moves, I no longer have the tapes for this
unit :(
Cheers
A
My name is Jack Peacock. I'm 42, based in Las Vegas (Nevada, not that other
place in New Mexico). I got started in computers way back in 1971, on a
Univac 1106, with fixed head and moving head FASTRAND drums. Back then the
programming medium of choice was punch cards (yes, I even learned how to
program 026 keypunches using drum cards), and if you were lucky a turn at
the ASR33 teletype. Does anyone still remember that "other" character set
besides Baudot, ASCII and EBCDIC? (Hint, 6 bit Univac character set,
started with an F)
I got started in the hardware side while working for Lockheed, building
environmental monitoring instruments (LIDARs, multi-spectral scanners, low
level radiation sample counters)). We needed a cheap data logger with some
intelligence that could run unattended for long periods of time, or in
aircraft. We had tried HP9830s (ever try flying one in a 2 seater
helicopter?), and looked at National IMP-16s and DG Novas, all too big or
expensive. Then one day a guy brought in the now famous issue of Popular
Electronics, with the Altair kit. We got one, put it together in the lab,
and promptly blew up the CPU board. In the early kits there was a tiny
defect, seems all the gold fingers on the CPU card were shorted together
with a hairline plating error on the card edge, almost too small to see.
Know what happens when you put -12 on the +5 line in an 8080? Pieces of it
almost hit the ceiling. From that point on, whenever we first turned on an
S-100 kit, the warning to everyone else was "Flame On" so they could duck.
MITS replaced the board (when 8080 CPUs were still $400 each) and the Altair
worked! We actually used it for one project, but it was quickly retired
when the IMSAI came out. We bought #17 from IMSAI in December 1975.
The IMSAI was very cheap compared to what the other engineering sections who
still used minis (DEC and DG) were doing in their projects. We outfitted
the IMSAI with a floppy, paper tape, and a VDM CRT display, and we used it
to write 8080 code for several years. The board that went into the
instruments was the single board 8080 eval kit Intel was selling at the time
(SDK-80?). Years later I found out some of the data loggers went more than
10 years in the field without repairs. Intel built good stuff even then.
Freshly overconfident from getting an IMSAI to run at work, I bought one
myself in 1977 after trying out my skills on a National SC/MP eval kit
first. It took a lot of work, and some assistance from the E.E.s at work,
but I got the IMSAI running. Virtually all my knowledge of digital
electronics came from wire wrapping proto boards for the S-100. In my
opinion, it was one of the best platforms for learning real-world electronic
design, especially when it's your own money that goes up in smoke when you
don't double-check the voltages first.
I program for a living these days, incredibly dull accounting applications
and tech support. I still have the S-100s, including that original IMSAI
(even have the CPU chip left from the SC/MP board). I don't have too much
opportunity these days to do electronics, but I keep a hand in designing
8051-based controller boards. Chances are you've seen one of the 8051
boards if you ever come to Las Vegas, they are inside some of the big casino
signs on the Strip.
The collection is modest:
my treasured IMSAI, complete with 22 slot board and front panel, lovingly
hand assembled, running CP/M 3 off a 5MB hard drive, Ithaca Z80B, 256KB RAM
(still used for production once in a while, it's not a museum piece yet)
The rest:
an IMSAI VDP, which I work on once in a while
several generic 8086 and 286 based S-100 boxes running Concurrent DOS
an original IBM AT, circa 1985, upgraded first to a 386 with a Jet adapter,
then to a Cyrix 486DR2 (the world's slowest 486, 8Mhz)
a MicroVax II (KA630) in a BA-23 pedestal, with an RD54 and 16MB, VMS 5.3
a Vax 3600 (KA650) in a BA-123 box (upgraded MV II), 24 MB, VMS 6.2
several generic 386 PC clones, recycled as controllers on router tables in a
machine shop for the moment
Yeah; I'm currently studying with two kids (3 and 1). Believe me... it
will be much much easier now rather than when you have other commitments.
Do it sooner rather than later :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Demography?
>R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote:
>
>> I'm 20 years old and am the sysadmin for Geoworks' (yes, that Geoworks)
>> Seattle design centre. I spent two years at uni but tired of the
>> academic attitude and puerile students so I dropped out to admin full
>> time. I may go back one day, but I can't forsee yet what day it'll be.
>
>With a chance of sounding like an old mother hen since I'm twice as old as
you
>and "been there" - DO go back and don't put it off too long. Anymore they
want
>janitors to have technical degrees in "custodial engineering". Once the
>kiddies get into the picture it's a really SOB to get to where you have the
>time and resources.
Sam Ismail wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:
>
> > Anyone know of a museum/collection site with info on this, or have info
> > on it themselves? I'd like to see what it is before I decide to gut it
> > for the drives or keep ot for my oddities collection.
>
> Do NOT gut this baby. It is truly a classic. I hope Marvin
> (marvin(a)raing.org) pipes up about this because he seems to be the resident
> Vector guru around here, but I haven't seen a post from him in a little
> while.
>
> Add this one to your collection.
>
> Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Hey me too on this one
--------------------------------------------------------------^^^^
Anyway I finally powered it up after jumpering the broken power toggle and it works
as far as the monitor powering and giving me video garbage. The hard drive is a
Seagate 5 mb and the floppy is a Tandon 720k belt drive. It appears to have a
printer port as well and only one open connection in the card cage. Although a
little dirty and dusty she's in beautiful shape needing a good repair and
replacement of the antiglare mesh.
If Marvin doesn't raise his ugly head (so to speak) I'll have to grab him by the
trackball and see what he has to say about it.
Add to my collection? I think not as the dining room is no longer a dining room,
it's a computer docking bay.
Thanks a bunch for the info...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean
any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some
systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2
286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something
32-bit
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
[tony duell]
:> "lart"?
:Lusr Attidute Readjustment Tool... What you want to use on the idiot
:who's just fed a banana through the card reader :-)
hehehe :> the only irritating thing about you, tony, is that everything
we say we want, you pop up and say you've got ;> we have a feeling that
eventually all obsolete computer equipment in britain will gravitate to
chez duell...
:I always thoguht the Commodore method of keeping the disk turning
:at the same speed and changing the data rate made more sense.
:Certainly seeking would be faster as you wouldn't have to wait for
:the disk speed to change and stabilise.
on the other hand, it makes the electronics more difficult, as suddenly
you have to design a pll that will reliably lock to about 10 different
data rates, rather than just one, not to mention making sure the
controller can handle it. to make it practical to decode in software,
the apple probably got it right - and let's face it, certainly in later
years commodore never really got the hang of the speed disks should run
at... also, it's worth bearing in mind that the mac had a very fine
grain of control over the speed of the disk drive originally, and could
bump it up a notch (out of 400 or so) if it was running a little on the
slow side. because the data decode was in software, that was feasible.
:> it wasn't a cheap design, but it was what the ibm should have
:>been if it *had* to use that particular architecture...
:Having looked at a number of non-PC 8088/8086 machines, I am
:convinced that _all_ of them are superior to the IBM PC...
not hard, given the design principles of the pc. on the other hand,
they're still hamstrung by the basic architecture of the thing.
were there any non-pc-compatible 286 machines produced? the original
apricot xen series springs to mind, but how good was that?
[daybreak]
:> hmm - so how much did you pay for it then...? :>
:\pounds 10.00 including 19" mono monitor, floppy drive and tape
:streamer, but missing the keyboard and mouse. You're right - I did
:buy it.
just call us psychic ;>
[tiger]
:Rumour was that the selling price for the CPU unit (The CPU was in
:the keyboard case - it looks a little like a BBC micro with
:multi-coloured function keys) would have been around \pounds 3000.
:No wonder they never sold any...
no wonder. a case of not only completely missing the market, but also
the point...
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
That's one of the things with PC's... they're all software-standard, but
hardware versatile. For 486's, there's the Pentium Overdrives that some
boards were equipped with (but Intel cut off the overdrives early), then
there's also about 50 differnet chips that actually plug into the ZIF
Socket, the fastest being the Evergreen one, which is based on a AMD K5 133,
and has equivelent performance to that of a Pentium 102MHz. For the Zeineth
PCs that the government bought in the 80's, the CPU was on a daughterboard,
so that you could upgrade that to a 386, but God help you try to find one of
those.
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 2:13 AM
Subject: 486 upgrade boards
>Does anyone have any upgrade board for PCs? I said 486, but I mean
>any such thing. This is part of a desire to find a way to salvage some
>systems. Does anyone have any MCA upgrade boards? There are some PS/2
>286 towers, which I would take if I could upgrade them to something
>32-bit
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Found in a box of stuff rescued (via a friend)..FWIW the box this
thing was in,
was IBM factory labeled... Board, measuring approx 6 in x 3 in. at the
top left is
a centronix female connector. About 3/4 in to the right, is what appears
to be a RCA
type phono jack. The part number on the board is 79F4761.. There appears
to be
two (memory?) sockets on it, one of which is empty, the other has a
label on it, that
reads as follows:
239X .STD
V0.86
92-2-27 23A7
Inscribed directly on the chip is:
-150DC
1506NOT
(copyright symbol) 1988 AMD
Can anybody clue me in on this thing?
AdvTHANKSance,
Will
To: Jim Sciuto, "Gold Recovery Expert"
http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm
I invite you to take the time to discover the wonderful efforts a group
of dedicated individuals around the globe are engaged in to preserve
some of the historically significant vintage computer equipment that you
may be scrapping for its precious metals. In some cases, the machines
you are melting down have more historic value than any monetary value
you may be extracting from their circuits.
I realize this is how you make your living, but I think you will find
the efforts of these computer preservations at least interesting, if not
compelling.
Any assistance you can afford us in preserving the more rare artifacts
of our computer heritage that you come in contact with or possesion of
would be much appreciated. I invite you to visit the Vintage Computer
Festival web page:
http://www.siconic.com/vcf
Sincerely,
Sam Ismail
Vintage Technology Cooperative
http://www.siconic.com/vcf
Greetings list-friends....
Though I mainly Lurk here, with your kind indulgence I would like to
add another fiber to the 'WRU' thread now extant, because it is so
fascinating seeing the "unity-in-diversity" theme alive and well.
I am 46 and currently chief engineer at one of the big LA movie
studios. It's an awful lot of fun with a little stress thrown in
>from time to time, just to keep me awake.
I have two inter-related Main Interests: music and electronics. I
began piano at 6, organ at 12, and in HS and college played also
various things with bows and strings. When I was 11, my father took
me to his work one saturday, and I was allowed *inside* the
glass-enclosed shrine where the newly installed GE 635 lived in all
it's glory. I was utterly hooked. I had to have one, right then, in
my room, mine all mine. It was the *smell* also, the warm
electronics, the smell of the tape, and the sound...
After college (BSEE) and the Draft, I worked at various
music-related tech jobs thru the 70's and early 80's, then did some
years as a systems analyst and data comm products manager for a Big
Phone Company. Got my fill of computer-programming; I'm a hardware
guy. Along the way I filed some patents, wrote a few papers and some
short stories, and recorded hours of often-forgettable music.
Then the movie business happened, and the rest is geography.
Currently I have six PDP-11 systems in various states of being and
about twenty or so micros and related items strewn all over the
house... my living room now looks like a circa-Seventies college
computing center. I also have a Pent-100 machine under W95, an AST
486/33 for fax and voice mail, and a Mac PPC and MAC SE in my home
studio... which brings up my other (sort-of related) collection,
vintage electronic instruments. I have many older keyboards and synth
modules, including a pretty big Moog and a few ARPS, etc. I have a
fantasy of running Music IV (or Csound) under Unix on the PDP 15 with
period DACs providing signals to the Moog.... a living early 70's
music research lab. Maybe the Minc-11.... naw, never mind.
I've held a Ham radio ticket for many years, and just now I'm
about two weeks away from getting a pilot's license, *if* the
examiner and the weather are co-incident and *if* I pass the damn
checkride... oops, off topic. sorry.
I share Tim Shoppa's concern for preservation of recorded media,
and I am very active in the restoration and preservation of the
record of our society before it is gone forever. This is the main
drive for my collection.... also I have, like Sam, many thousands of
books, and among them several dozen computer-related ones, from the
late forties on. It's very true: anyone can get hardware, but the
docs, well, there's another thing entirely.
I have a webpage, which I need badly to revise, but here is a view
of some of the collection: www.lightsound.org. Now I really *must*
get it brought up-to-date.. ;}
Okay: enough bandwidth for one evening. E-mail is welcome and
checked often.
Cheers
John
Well, here's my bio:
I am a 31-year-old banker in Syosset (Long Island), New York. Many of my
waking hours involve lending millions to near-bankrupt companies without a
clue. It's not sexy, but it's a job <g>. As expected, I worked at Radio
Shack from high school through college (I even got a 5-year service pin)
Anyway, I digress. I really began collecting old computers about three
years ago. It all started with the VIC-20 that I got when I was in junior
high school (my all-time favorite; I learned 6502 machine language on that
machine. Snif, snif. Sigh). From there, I added a Fat Mac that I owned in
college. Then, a PET 4032 system (a gift from my former junior high school
computer teacher), an IBM Datamaster (blown F8 ROM :-( Now a useless POS),
two Tandy Model 1's (one 4k, one 16k, with expansion chassis; works fine), a
complete Model 100 system (with DVI and monitor), and an original IBM PC
with expansion chassis. That was it for a long time. Then, I found this
group...
Well, I've loaded up on an Apple ][+, an Apple /// with a ProFile HD,
several more VIC-20's (spares if anyone needs parts), a C64, several other
CBM parts, a Compaq SLT/286 and dock (not really a classic, but free, all
25+ lbs of it), an original Atari 2600 in the box, a complete Apple //gs
system, a Mac SE/30, and a Northstar Horizon with many random boards (this
is my next fix-up project).
I also have some software that I've collected (not all originals,
though): DOS 1.1 through 6.22, Windoze 1.01, 2.0, 3.0, etc., VisiCalc,
Lotus, and others.
Then came my "drive and get it" phase, aka, the too big and heavy to
ship. I have a Sun 3/50 and shoebox (more on this later), a DEC uVax-I in a
BA23 case with several RD52 drives, and a complete PDP-11/34 system. This
was the best - a complete system, just as if the guy ordered it 20 years ago
with all manuals and enough spares to last a lifetime. I still don't have a
complete inventory of the spare parts, but the rack has 2 RK05 drives, the
CPU, and an expansion chassis. I just picked-up several RK05 disk packs with
the original RT-11 distribution on it. It came with several boxes of
documentation, and several binders that clip into a metal holder (like would
hold the OED dictionary).
My major focus from here on (because my wife has *suggested* that I have
enough computers) is fill-in stuff:
* Commodore software/hardware (cartridge slot expander, speech synth,
IEEE card, games)
* Apple game software/hardware (i.e., paddles and joysticks)
* Apple Lisa (not really fill-in, but I can always slip one by...)
* IMSAI 8080 (this one is pre-authorized by the "computer police")
* Copy-II-PC card
* PDP stuff for transferring files (maybe a paper tape reader/punch).
I'm also in the process of
getting an RX02 drive for my system.
* Embedded/SBC stuff (like a KIM-1 or SYM-1)
* Intel iAPX432 processor set
I also am looking for non-classic stuff along the lines of embedded-PC
stuff (x86 PC card on an ISA backplane, for example; for experimentation). I
also have a passing interest in robotics (I'm specing a Mars rover style
autonomous robot), gardening, and golf.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
[tony duell]
:> Looser Attitude Readjustment Tool. LART. Usually a big stick,
:>but can be anything handy that can inflict pain and suffering
:>upon loosers who don't know a calculator from a computer and
:>think Bill Gates is Good.
:Well, my calculator has a homebrew I2C interface on it, which I've
:used to control a robot arm,etc. I've written self-modifying RPL on
:it, and I've programmed it in its native (Saturn) machine code. I'm
:not sure I can tell a calculator from a computer...
erm... doesn't that beg the question - does hewlett-packard actually
know the difference between a calculator and a computer...?
(or do their design engineers just design things they can hack between
meetings? ;> )
-- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive
I have heard enough on this topic without understanding what it meant!
What is the difference between vector and bitmapped graphics, and who
was first to use each? Why are vector graphics stereotypically used
in mainframes and bitmapped used in cheap weenie "home computers"?
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