- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by kyrrin＠jps.net

And that request is: Would Sam, Wirehead Prime, and 'Joe' PLEASE move your mass argument to private E-mail? You can bash each other all you want over there. If the noise level doesn't drop soon, I may fade away as well. Gad, Usenet is less noisy at the moment... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple - PC

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

the trackstar was made years ago in the late 1980s. in fact, radio shack used to have it in the catalog for sale! you might want to check out ebay.com as they did have some of these cards for ~$20 about two months ago. it's a full length isa card that you plug a standard disk ][ into. dont know about video though. supposedly they were quite compatible and one could run just about anything on that card. david, CONTINUING to delete 99+44/100% of ccmp posts... In a message dated 98-03-19 08:05:04 EST, you write: << Just out of curiorisity, were these made by Diamond Multimedia, the ones that now make the modems, video cards, DVD drives, etc.? What are the chances of finding one? Around how much would they cost? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze ><> > There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: ><> [snip] ><> and... > >How about the DIAMOND TRACKSTAR128, basically it put an applle in the >ISA bus and allowed apple and non apple disks. Looking at the manual >transfers to the PC side of the world are possible as well as running >APPLE software. > >Allison >>

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple - PC

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Is there a way to transfer files from an Apple II to a PC? I have a //c. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

OK, Time to make an attempt at ending this...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Hmm... I see one party causing the problem... *clickity click* One copy, Ami-chan no hatsukoi, check mqueue, give it time... Ah, darn, stopped in the queue. "sendmail -q"... we have a flakey link here... OK. Sam won't be reading email for a while... BTW, That's *NOT* a mail bomb. He asked for it. I've been ^Qing thru all that crap all morning, and I'm sick of it. He wasted a lot of my time, so I'll waste a few of his. Besides, it's only about... *clicky click* 39 meg. -------

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

More of Sam's Rantings Re: Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd)

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi Everyone, Well Sam's not going to let it drop. I have not replied to the last three of his messages in order to try and let this die down but he's determined to continue try a prevoke a response. Now he apparently thinks that it's inappropriate to post anything about the operation of this list (unless he posts it, of course). But I won't bother to responde to his rantings. I'll just post it here and you can use your own judgement. Joe At 04:13 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote: > >You are seriously off-topic (again). For your possible enlightenment, >here is a FREE copy of the FAQ: > > >1.1 What is ClassicCmp? > >It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center >on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place >for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions >dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are >often better handled in private e-mail. > >1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? > >Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it >seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. > >1.3 What is a Classic Computer? > >_Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. >This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to >work OK, so I've kept it. > >1.4 Who runs this thing? > >That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw(a)u.washington.edu. > >1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? > >Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond >to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still >probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of >mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd >user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the >messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get >back to you eventually. > >1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. > >I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show >me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large >as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously >there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see >a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing >anyway. > >1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? > >The daily load varies widely from about 10 messages to over 100. Average >seems to be about 44 messages a day. There are times where the message >load peaks for as much as a week. > >[][][][][][][][][] > >2.1 What can I talk about? > >Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many >people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might >want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a >good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before >posting. > >2.2 Can I talk about PCs? > >Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be >aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC >newsgroups. > >2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes > with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? > >There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for >micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". > >2.4 Can I post advertisements? > >Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, >use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not >you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there >are members of this list in a number of different countries. > >2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? > >Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, >would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on >usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their >machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that >they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to >find yourself a computer. > >2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. > >Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't >have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic >electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz >with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking >questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check >the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking >out!" exactly means. > >2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? > >It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive >section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). > >2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! > (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) > >Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop >any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. > >2.9 Can I post trophy lists? > >Ahem. Er... I'm not going to go to the extent of banning this practise >but it is considered bad manners. Don't whine to me because I used to be >guilty of this and curbed myself ;). Post lists of newly acquired goods >if you actually need info on them, not just to show off. > >2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? > >Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of >people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now >that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. > > >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I have tried to drop this arguement with Sam but he insists on >> perpetuating it. It may be embarrassing to read this stuff but it should be >> kept public since it does concern the operation of this list. Sam is now >> complaining that this tread is off topic for this list, but he convenently >> forgets that he is the one that started it! In his latest tirade, Sam has >> accused me of using this list for profit (I wish!). I should note that >> selling items on the list is permitted according to the FAQs, and yes I >> have probably made a grand total of $50 in the last six months (net not >> profit). Anthony is right, Sam seems to be interested in nothing more than >> harassing others and tearing down this list. >> >> What I would like to know is who appointed Sam to police this list? >> >> Joe >> >> At 05:59 PM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >> > >> > >> >Again I warned you. I was responding publicly to a public posting by the >> >OWNER AND MODERATOR of the mailing list, Sam. You are so out of line >> >here that I can't believe anymore that your purpose on the mailing list >> >is to do anything other than to harass others. >> > >> >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >> > >> >PS: And I'm not going to allow you to do this privately...even if it >> >does annoy the group because I think everyone needs to see what kind of >> >person you really are and how petty and small-minded your little games >> >are becoming. I think this has bearing on any project that you undertake >> >and the extent to which others should participate in it. >> > >> > ---------- Forwarded message >> >---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:03:04 -0800 (PST) >> >From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> >> >To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> >> >Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... >> > >> > >> >Again, you are in violation of Section 1.1 of the FAQ which reads: >> > >> > >> >1.1 What is ClassicCmp? >> > >> >It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center >> >on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place >> >for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions >> >dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are >> >often better handled in private e-mail. >> > >> >Please post only on-topic messages in the future. Your cooperation would >> >be greatly valued by all. >> > >> >Have a nice day! >> > >> >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Personally I think the list is great and have noticed NO difficulties >> >> whatsoever in its administration. >> >> >> >> I would hate to see it pass into the hands of someone who clearly does >> >> not have the best interests of others in mind but merely wishes to >> >> control it for the purposes of ego inflation. >> >> >> >> I think the list is wonderful Bill and, aside from one person who is >> >> clearly incapable of behaving in a rational and courteous manner, should >> >> remain precisely as it is. >> >> >> >> That's my two cents worth... >> >> >> >> Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >> >> >> >> > If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else >> >> > would like to take over with their own listserv, it would >> >> > be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. >> >> > If you can live with the current level of administration, >> >> > I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >Sam Alternate e-mail: >> dastar(a)siconic.com >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, >> Jackass >> > >> > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 >> > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! >> > >> > >> >> > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > >

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Finding machines (was: Question for the Faq)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>perhaps the original requestor was thinking more in terms of >geographical areas...? sure, thrift stores, but which are your personal >favourites? etc. That would be telling. ;) But seriously, specific locations don't do much good unless you know what general area you're dealing with. (I can offer some advice for San Francisco, but I rarely leave the City, and when I do, I'm generally more interested in finding a) miniature land rovers, b) donald duck stuff, c) good food, d) good beer (not necessarily in that order.)) For San Francisco, though, the places I go are: HMR - interesting stuff, fascinating place, but know what stuff is worth. Thriftcenter (in Belmont?) - on El Camino, just south of Morrison's, the teacher store (Holly exit? off 101?) (This is the place I go when rachel says "I need more sentence strips; I'll only be 10 minutes." I know I've got an hour, and she's spend more than I will.) Nifty-Thrifty - Across from the cow palace. Lots of refurbed PC's, older PC cases, occassionally some good stuff. (Passed up a bunch of Osborne 1's for $10 each, just before I started collecting. <kick> <kick> <kick>) All the surplus places in the Valley -- Weird Stuff, Haltek, Halted, Action, etc. That's about it, except the little thrift shop by my house that never has anything. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Apple - PC

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

There's another option. For those who have access to the web, check out: http://www.sequential.com/cross.htm . But, to me, the price is a tad high. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 3:37 PM Subject: RE: Apple - PC > ><> > There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: ><> [snip] ><> and... > >How about the DIAMOND TRACKSTAR128, basically it put an applle in the >ISA bus and allowed apple and non apple disks. Looking at the manual >transfers to the PC side of the world are possible as well as running >APPLE software. > >Allison >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple - PC

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Just out of curiorisity, were these made by Diamond Multimedia, the ones that now make the modems, video cards, DVD drives, etc.? What are the chances of finding one? Around how much would they cost? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze ><> > There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: ><> [snip] ><> and... > >How about the DIAMOND TRACKSTAR128, basically it put an applle in the >ISA bus and allowed apple and non apple disks. Looking at the manual >transfers to the PC side of the world are possible as well as running >APPLE software. > >Allison >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple - PC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: <> [snip] <> and... How about the DIAMOND TRACKSTAR128, basically it put an applle in the ISA bus and allowed apple and non apple disks. Looking at the manual transfers to the PC side of the world are possible as well as running APPLE software. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

VT320 help.

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

I use a VT320 a lot, so when I found one in a thrift store this week for $2, I decided to pick it up. Unfortunately, it's not in perfect health. If I plug it in without a keyboard, I get (predictably) a "Keyboard not present" error. If I plug it in with a keyboard attached, I get a screenful of garbage (the same character in a recognizable pattern, but garbage nonetheless). Bad keyboard? Wrong keyboard cable? Dead terminal? Ideas for further testing? Next prject: make it talk to my Linux box. Thanks, -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

a manual for the northstar advantage

by disio＠milenium.com

i would know if you have a hardware manual, or where i can find one. if don't, do you know which is the meaning of: load system 00000010 hardware failure I think it's a bios failure, if so where i can find one. thanks in advance. Disio(a)milenium.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

.LZ compression??

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1205 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/c6309875/at…

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...)

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Talking about disks for the Mattel Aquarius... Tony wrote... >on one edge. On the 3.5" disk the shutter can be easily opened >accidentally, and more importantly it can spring apart on the inside >edge. [snip/snip] OK, the floppies I have are NOT as described in Tony's last letter. These here disks are 77mm square, and do NOT have a shutter protecting the surface of the disk. I am sure the shutter is not missing; I have 10 disks all the same. From the circular midsection with a rectangular opening all the way to the edge, the access area on this disk looks like a large keyhole. Yet, the style is similar to a standard 3.5" floppy A side-note; these disks are advertised at having 144K unformatted capacity. Those interested can see the disks and drive at... http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius/aqdisk.jpg http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius/floppy.jpg I understand the drive is top-opening, like a CD-player, but I've yet to confirm this. I wonder if anybody knows of any other drives with this mechanism (floppies only!!) Cheers A

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Apple - PC

by zmerch＠northernway.net

;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Kai Kaltenbach typed: >There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: [snip] >2. Obtain an "Apple II-on-an-ISA-card" device (rare, no longer manufactured, >various brand names) Tho I'm not much of an Apple person (unless someone would like to send me a G3 for free... ;-) there is a place on the web that has some "Diamond Trackstar //e" boards for sale -- for $19 each (plus shipping, I believe). Dunno if that's a good price or not (or if the nomenclature is totally correct -- again, apologies for not being an Apple Nut -- CoCoNut is more my style) but it seems they have (at least) several... For the Webulators: http://www.ahhz.com/ Hope that helps someone... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Ooops... this Ultrix...

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Sorry, I should have clarified. I have Ultrix 4.3 for both VAXen and RISC. Based on the responses I've gotten so far, it'll end up being built around BSD 4.2-4.3, yes? I'm asking because I'll be book-shopping before too much longer, and I've had my eye on the O'Reilly books 'Unix in a Nutshell' and 'Essential System Administration.' Both seem to strike a balance between SCO and BSD. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Apology, Info, Etc...

by bcw＠u.washington.edu

Hi all. It's come to my attention that there's some discussion on classiccmp regarding the administration of the list. I'll get back to those that have contacted me asap. I haven't read the list in months and only do basic addition and removal of addresses at this point. My work and personal lives have made it impossible to be any more active with classiccmp. I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. I will continue to do basic list maintenance as much as I'm available. Please don't count on me for anything at this point. I think classiccmp is great and I'm glad to have done the initial arrangements, but I don't even know when I'll have the time to just read it again. If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else would like to take over with their own listserv, it would be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. If you can live with the current level of administration, I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. Sorry to have let you guys hang - I've been meaning to make a post of this nature for some time and it never made it high enough up the priorities list. -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw(a)u.washington.edu Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275

28 years, 2 months

10
13
0 0

New to List

by DiesIrrae＠aol.com

Hello, I am new to the list and despite all this nonsencse about some guy named Sam, I am looking forward to gaining knowledge from this list. I currently own an Atari 400, 800, and Mac Plus. Really all I am here for is listening in and to ask a few questions when they arrive to my brain. Later, -Enrique!

28 years, 2 months

4
3
0 0

Apple - PC

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

There is no way to read Apple II disks in a PC. Your options are: 1. Serial transfer 2. Obtain an "Apple II-on-an-ISA-card" device (rare, no longer manufactured, various brand names) 3. If you have access to a Mac, and have a 3 1/2" drive on the Apple II, you can transfer the disk files to ProDOS format and read them via the Macintosh, then either write them to PC format with a Mac SuperDrive, or read the Mac disks on the PC with the various utilities available. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Max Eskin [SMTP:maxeskin@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 4:32 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Apple - PC > > Is there a way to transfer files from an Apple II to a PC? I have a > //c. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...)

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

andrew davie was :Talking about disks for the Mattel Aquarius... yep, they're quick disks. and they probably belong in the same bucket as sinclair's microdrive and phi mag's floopy tape (anyone else remember this one?) - nice tries that just couldn't keep up, either in cost, capacity or genericity. if only our ql's microdrives still worked... they're a lovely little storage mechanism to look at. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

4
4
0 0

Question for the Faq - If there is one.

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: >This may as well be the official location since the "official" location is >inaccessible. I hereby declare Doug's address above the new official web >address since nobody else will. I'll also volunteer to host a copy of the FAQ web page(s). I'll even help edit, write or update it - but you weren't asking for a new maintainer, were you? >B) It doesn't get sent out to new subscribers >C) People ignore it There's a few ways to handle this: send out a subscribe/unsubscribe/FAQ post every month, or put a short .signature on the digest or on every message, for a day once every couple weeks. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Robots again

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

I just finished watching that Discovery program on Robots and was wondering if anyone involved in the list has previously/is currently working in that field Also, does anyone know how much of an influence the use of computer systems by all of those AI reasearches in the late 70's/early 80's had on system designs? I'd be interested to hear any opinions/anecdotes/etc on this stuff. Aaron

28 years, 2 months

9
10
0 0

Epson HX-20 picture online

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I have placed a piccie of my HX-20, for your viewing pleasure, at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/hx20/hx20.jpg Please note the unit shown is sitting in a nifty snaplock carrybox from EPSON, has the expansion unit connected on the left. The leaflet shown lists the unit at $1487. This is in the days when $1AUS = US$1.09. I'm very open to trades on this unit. I'm looking for cartridges from the video console machines, and the machines themselves. Cheers A

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Keep me out of it.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I do not _want_ the job, I am simply willing to do it. I <would _prefer_ Allison or Tim Shoppa, as I think they have better First and formost, don't suck me into this. The list. It's charter is simple. Occasional digressions and ratholes can be interesting. Posturing and fighting is boring. Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Finding machines (was: Question for the Faq)

by DiesIrrae＠aol.com

Speaking of finding systems. Today I found an Atari 800 (a few keys missing) at a thrift store for 50 cents. -Enrique!

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

[bcw@u.washington.edu: Re: Apology, Info, Etc...]

by jmg＠iac.net

Folks I just received this in private email from Bill Whitson. I rarely break rules of privacy like this, but the information here affects _so_ many people. Depending on what happens I may unsubscribe from this list. I want everyone to know that I've learned some wonderful things here and feel I've 'met' some amazing players in the high technology arena. May we meet again! Take Care, J. Maynard Gelinas ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:03:57 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: Bill Whitson <bcw(a)u.washington.edu> To: "J. Maynard Gelinas" <jmg(a)iac.net> Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... Hi. I'm currently working with Sam Ismail on this. He may have the capability to run the whole listserv. I'm sure he will bring the list up to date as soon as he knows. Thanks for the offer. Depending on what happens with Sam, I may take you up on it. - -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw(a)u.washington.edu Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: jmg-> OK, jmg-> I've received significant help from list members here in the jmg->past, and _really_ don't want to see it disappear. I understand how jmg->family pressures make the sustained effort of mail list maintenance jmg->sometimes an impossibility (Hey, I ran a BBS for four years in the jmg->80's like most of us here). So, I offer to take on list management jmg->_if necessary_. I'm perfectly happy to share these responsibilities jmg->with other members as well. In fact, if a whole bunch of other people jmg->chime up and want to take on the task, I'll _gladly_ bow out! ;-) jmg-> jmg-> But I'd rather take on the headache of being the list jmg->maintainer than see classiccmp die out from bickering and off topic jmg->posts because of ineffective list maintenance. Bill, you started a jmg->wonderful thing, but I think, at least right now, we need heavier jmg->moderation. jmg-> jmg-> There are a few other folks I'd rather see in the drivers seat jmg->before me. Tim Shoppa and Allison, for example, would both make jmg->better choices than I (and if you guys want it, I'm outta your way). jmg->However, this is _an_ offer; currently no one else seems to have jmg->chimed up. jmg-> jmg-> I can arrange to have a Majordomo or Listproc list manager in jmg->place at one of several hosts if necessary, but I think it would be to jmg->everyone's benefit if the 'classiccmp' address remained the same. I jmg->hope I haven't overstepped my bounds here... jmg-> jmg->Respectfully, jmg->J. Maynard Gelinas jmg-> jmg-> jmg->> Hi all. jmg->> jmg->> It's come to my attention that there's some discussion on jmg->> classiccmp regarding the administration of the list. I'll jmg->> get back to those that have contacted me asap. I haven't jmg->> read the list in months and only do basic addition and jmg->> removal of addresses at this point. My work and personal jmg->> lives have made it impossible to be any more active with jmg->> classiccmp. jmg->> jmg->> I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever jmg->> means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. jmg->> jmg->> I will continue to do basic list maintenance as much jmg->> as I'm available. jmg->> jmg->> Please don't count on me for anything at this point. I jmg->> think classiccmp is great and I'm glad to have done the jmg->> initial arrangements, but I don't even know when I'll jmg->> have the time to just read it again. jmg->> jmg->> If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else jmg->> would like to take over with their own listserv, it would jmg->> be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. jmg->> If you can live with the current level of administration, jmg->> I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. jmg->> jmg->> Sorry to have let you guys hang - I've been meaning to jmg->> make a post of this nature for some time and it never jmg->> made it high enough up the priorities list. jmg->> jmg->> -------------------------------------------------------- jmg->> Bill Whitson bcw(a)u.washington.edu jmg->> Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 jmg->> University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 jmg->> jmg->> jmg->> jmg-> ------- End of forwarded message -------

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Maybe list division? Re: [bcw@u.washington.edu: Re: Apology, Info, Etc...]

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. Instead of killing the current classiccmp, we could just take some parts of it off. For instance, we could make a "classiccmpmarket" list for buying/selling classics. Just a thought, Tim D. Hotze > > Folks I just received this in private email from Bill >Whitson. I rarely break rules of privacy like this, but the >information here affects _so_ many people. Depending on what happens >I may unsubscribe from this list. I want everyone to know that I've >learned some wonderful things here and feel I've 'met' some amazing >players in the high technology arena. May we meet again! > >Take Care, >J. Maynard Gelinas > > >------- Start of forwarded message ------- >Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:03:57 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) >From: Bill Whitson <bcw(a)u.washington.edu> >To: "J. Maynard Gelinas" <jmg(a)iac.net> >Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... > >Hi. > >I'm currently working with Sam Ismail on this. He may have >the capability to run the whole listserv. I'm sure he will >bring the list up to date as soon as he knows. > >Thanks for the offer. Depending on what happens with Sam, >I may take you up on it. > >- -------------------------------------------------------- >Bill Whitson bcw(a)u.washington.edu >Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 >University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 > > >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > >jmg-> OK, >jmg-> I've received significant help from list members here in the >jmg->past, and _really_ don't want to see it disappear. I understand how >jmg->family pressures make the sustained effort of mail list maintenance >jmg->sometimes an impossibility (Hey, I ran a BBS for four years in the >jmg->80's like most of us here). So, I offer to take on list management >jmg->_if necessary_. I'm perfectly happy to share these responsibilities >jmg->with other members as well. In fact, if a whole bunch of other people >jmg->chime up and want to take on the task, I'll _gladly_ bow out! ;-) >jmg-> >jmg-> But I'd rather take on the headache of being the list >jmg->maintainer than see classiccmp die out from bickering and off topic >jmg->posts because of ineffective list maintenance. Bill, you started a >jmg->wonderful thing, but I think, at least right now, we need heavier >jmg->moderation. >jmg-> >jmg-> There are a few other folks I'd rather see in the drivers seat >jmg->before me. Tim Shoppa and Allison, for example, would both make >jmg->better choices than I (and if you guys want it, I'm outta your way). >jmg->However, this is _an_ offer; currently no one else seems to have >jmg->chimed up. >jmg-> >jmg-> I can arrange to have a Majordomo or Listproc list manager in >jmg->place at one of several hosts if necessary, but I think it would be to >jmg->everyone's benefit if the 'classiccmp' address remained the same. I >jmg->hope I haven't overstepped my bounds here... >jmg-> >jmg->Respectfully, >jmg->J. Maynard Gelinas >jmg-> >jmg-> >jmg->> Hi all. >jmg->> >jmg->> It's come to my attention that there's some discussion on >jmg->> classiccmp regarding the administration of the list. I'll >jmg->> get back to those that have contacted me asap. I haven't >jmg->> read the list in months and only do basic addition and >jmg->> removal of addresses at this point. My work and personal >jmg->> lives have made it impossible to be any more active with >jmg->> classiccmp. >jmg->> >jmg->> I encourage you to organize as you desire, by whatever >jmg->> means you can agree on if you haven't already done so. >jmg->> >jmg->> I will continue to do basic list maintenance as much >jmg->> as I'm available. >jmg->> >jmg->> Please don't count on me for anything at this point. I >jmg->> think classiccmp is great and I'm glad to have done the >jmg->> initial arrangements, but I don't even know when I'll >jmg->> have the time to just read it again. >jmg->> >jmg->> If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else >jmg->> would like to take over with their own listserv, it would >jmg->> be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. >jmg->> If you can live with the current level of administration, >jmg->> I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. >jmg->> >jmg->> Sorry to have let you guys hang - I've been meaning to >jmg->> make a post of this nature for some time and it never >jmg->> made it high enough up the priorities list. >jmg->> >jmg->> -------------------------------------------------------- >jmg->> Bill Whitson bcw(a)u.washington.edu >jmg->> Network Administrator (425) 352-5209 >jmg->> University of Washington - Bothell Help Desk: 2-5275 >jmg->> >jmg->> >jmg->> >jmg-> >------- End of forwarded message -------

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple - PC

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-03-18 21:39:17 EST, you write: << 4. Wasn't there something called a Central Point Option Card (or something like that?) that allowed a person to install an Apple drive in a PC? ttyl srw >> the only thing i'm familiar with is the central point copy option board which let a pc do a bit copy of any disk, write protected, ibm format or not. i have two, one is an earlier version i think, but i've never gotten around to setting it up yet. david

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

RGB monitor

by jstorm＠RFPP.com

Sorry, I don't have the answer. I have a 12" RGB monitor that works with a IIGS but when I plug it into my Mac IIsi, I get nothing. Please let me know if you find out where you can get technical info on Apple monitors. Thanks, jstorm

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Apology, Info, Etc...

by mark＠cyberlightstudios.com

Same here....how do I unsubscribe? I've forgotten, now...can anyone give me the address? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 6:52 PM Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... >Well, I have had it with this group. I am going to ignore any messages I >get for a while - later I will check back and if it does not improve, I am >out for good. > >Now I see why a lot of people I know are not on this list. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net >

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

[bcw@u.washington.edu: Re: Apology, Info, Etc...]

by jmg＠iac.net

Sigh. You're right, I got your mail before my reply came through and I jumped to a conclusion without enough facts. Still, fuck you. I don't like you. I _am_ outta here now. J. Maynard Gelinas > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:52:43 -0800 (PST) > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> > To: maynard(a)jmg.com > Subject: Re: [bcw(a)u.washington.edu: Re: Apology, Info, Etc...] > > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > > > Whatever dude. I'm outta here. You're obviously abusing your > > power right now by intercepting the mail. You intend to shape > > opionion by censorship. This is far more unethical than my making > > public a personal email message. > > WHAT!? You posted your message publicly in ClassicCmp. Did you expect me > to ingore it or something? > > > Fuck you. > > Get a clue. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Robots again

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

>before I was born) -- the age of cybernetics! Whatever happened to the >age of the personal robot, and why do we still have manual vacuum >cleaners? Because they're sexier when they bend over? Cheers A

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Robots again

by adam＠merlin.net.au

I work in AI from the philosophical side, so I might be able to help here. >I just caught the end of that special. I didn't realize that interest in AI >had expired. Not at all. But there were some problems with teh aims and the possible realisations. Specifically, the dream of making a computer that could converse, as per the very foolish Turing Test, has appeared to be further away than ever. The original dream ran up against the sheer complexity of the problem, and the way in which the architecture that was being employed - basically there was a brute strength attitude, which was not successful. What is needed now is a new direction, which is being provided in a number of different areas - most notably from Daniel Dennett's COG. The one of the big problems was what is know as the Frame Problem of AI. It's not fitting to explain it here, but in essence the problem is that it takes time to catalogue the things which are not relevant, as well as those which are. Thus a computere faced with a problem would have to spend most of it's time working out what is irrelevant - severly limiting it's ability to solve anything. There are a lot of other problems, such as the distinction betweem implicit and explicit memory, but the upshot is that the old methods failed, and the new are still being developed. >Was there just no demand for AI, or has the market just taken the useful >aspects and abandoned the remainder? Isn't the Neural Net technology being >used in various pattern recognition applications (i.e. OCR) descended from >the AI research of the the 70's and 80's? The useful bits are being employed widly - fuzzy logic in toasters, expert systems all over teh place, OCR stuff, the military make extensive use of neural nets in the development of new missile technologies, etc. It has neither been given up, nor proven useless - it's just that we aren't going to be passing the Turing test for a while yet and, even if we do, it will prove nothing. Adam.

28 years, 2 months

4
4
0 0

Robots again

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>> Perhaps a real computer historian can chime in here, but I vaguely recall >> that there was considerable experimentation and debate early in the >> development of electronic computers along the lines of analog vs. digital, >> von neumann vs non-von, analogies to electronic brains, etc. > What do you mean by Von Neumann? I see that as a self-replicating mechanism... > >I have here a book from the Philips Technical Library called 'Practical >Robot Circuits' published in 1960. The first half of this book contains >the design for a robot 'dog' using essentially an analogue control system >(mostly amplifiers and comparators) to process the signals from various >sensors (photocells, microphones, thermistors, etc). The outputs of the What can this "dog" do? Does it have any kind of interesting abilities? > >BTW, the electronic side of the device uses valves (vacuum tubes). > >The second half of the book describes a tic-tac-toe machine, again using >valves. This one is entirely digital AFAIK. Why does EVERYONE love Tic-Tac-Toe so much? Bill Gates made a program, this book has a machine.... [snip] AFAIK, the Soviet Union, before it broke apart, put a lot of time into analog and mechanical machines, anything but pure IC logic, anyway. This was partly because they(we) didn't have the technology to make reliable VLSI ICs on a large scale, but mostly that the weird non- or semi-digital machines can handle a lot more beating and EM interference. > >I seem to recall that A.K. Dewdeny (That's not the right spelling...) >wrote about 'analogue gadgets' in Scientific American at some point. The >basic point IIRC was that analogue systems are good at providing fast >_approximate_ solutions to certain problems. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

4
3
0 0

Looking for a Q-Bus card

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Seth, ---------- > From: Seth J. Morabito <sethm(a)loomcom.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Looking for a Q-Bus card > Date: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 5:12 PM > I've just acquired a MicroVAX 3800 (KA655-AA CPU), with various extra > bits and pieces. I know this is not _technically_ classic, but it > almost is... and heck, any QBus equipment feels pretty classic to me :) Lucky ... > > It has the factory-installed KFQSA-SA DSSI controller card in it, but > what I'd really like to do is put SCSI into this poor dear, as DSSI > drives are getting harder to come by. > > I've got a quick question for everyone first. Can a KZQSA-SF (SCSI) > and a KFQSA-SA (DSSI) controller live peacefully together on the same > Q-BUS, or must I dump one to use the other? No problem ... > > If I can use both, does anyone have a KZQSA-SF card they'd be willing to > give, trade, or sell to me? I Thats not so easy ... Most people want to keep their SCSI q-bus cards ... but you could easily buy a new one ... (appr. 800-1400 $) :-(( > -Seth

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:18 PM 3/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >So... on that note. I am in need of some old removable SyQuest disks for >an SQ555 drive. (the 44mb variety) Anybody know where I might find some? >The local 'puter store still sells them for $40 a pop! Take a look on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/); I see them there occasionally for reasonable prices. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Mac hi-res monitor

by A_Finney＠wfi-inc.com

Aw, damn. Sorry again guys, this was for private E.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

FAQ and the re-mailer

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:46 AM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >Would it be a) desirable, b) possible to have the remailer append a very >short text to each outgoing message with "Read the faq: <FAQ URL>"?

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Mac hi-res monitor

by A_Finney＠wfi-inc.com

Do you still need this thing? At 10:56 AM 2/11/98 EST, you wrote: >yes! i need one! glad to pay shipping to nc. is it available? > >david > > >In a message dated 98-02-10 15:25:34 EST, you write: > ><< Does anyone need a Mac mono monitor? Model number MO400, circa 1987. Best > offer takes it, no matter how pathetic. Recipient either pays shipping or > picks it up in the LA area (it's not heavy at all, I can't imagine that ups > ground would be more than a few bucks on this thing). >> > >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd)

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

And again, here is the message forwarded to the group. You have the power to stop this Sam....all you have to do is stop harassing me. I am acting in a completely defensive manner which means the balls in YOUR court here. We can go on like this until we're both removed from the list. And if I alone am removed then I can only hope that someone else will step up to this particular plate. At this point it's just a matter of which of us gets bored with this game first. But I think everyone can see that I'm between a rock and a hard place here. I can't give in because I said I wouldn't. My hands are tied. But you have an opportunity to be the big man here and stop harassing me. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:10:35 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... Once again, you've posted an off-topic message to the mailing list. Here is the FAQ, once again, in the hopes that this time you will choose to abide by it rather than flout it out of selfishness. 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Pro Anarchia (with apologies to Cicero)

by peacock＠simconv.com

>> My vote is to avoid this whole mess by having people respect the >> guidelines of the existing definition. Inspirational flash....how about everyone else on the list vote by filtering out the off topic stuff. We don't need no stinkin' rules. After all, the early microcomputer days were pure anarchy anyway. Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd)

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

And again, here is a mildly edited version of your harassment for the entire group to see. I may be foolish for standing up to you but you're more foolish than me for proving correct everything that I've said about you. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:57:32 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd) Again, for your information, here is the FAQ which outlines what is acceptable for discussion on ClassicCmp: 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Sam's Instructions in Private Email (fwd)

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

And you are again harassing me because your interpretation of the FAQ in this case is inconsistent with reality. And don't think I don't know what you're trying to do...you're trying to force ME to waste bandwidth publicly to make it appear that *I'M* the problem and not you. Anybody with half a brain can see right through your ploy here, Sam. I've read it and I'm NOT off-topic as this discussion and similar ones relate to the operation of the group and that is not forbidden in the FAQ. You want to play this game then I can play FOREVER. As I said, I won't back down from you. EVER. I will construct auto-responders if necessary but here's the deal: I let you have the last word in December thinking that you'd leave people alone but you're obviously too much of a bully for that. So this time, rather than bury my head in the sand [and let me make this abundantly clear] I WILL NOT BACK DOWN FROM YOU. I will NEVER give into your bullying. You can stop this and you should since YOU are the aggressor not me. I am acting from a defensive posture and I think everyone can see that. And, although I'm sure many find this game annoying, I'm certain that even those who would have criticized me earlier for standing up to you realize precisely what you are and no longer blame me for not backing down. And just so this is clear. I would prefer that Bill remove us BOTH from the mailing list permanently than permit you to have your wicked way with the group. But make no mistake...YOU ARE THE AGGRESSOR Sam. But if it takes Bill removing us both from the list forever, then I would consider that a SMALL price to pay to rid the mailing list of your vile insults and the pestilence of your malicious intentions. You are clearly suffering from mental illness and I feel sorry for you but I cannot permit you to abuse me, harass me or send me what amounts to unsolicited email spam without making the entire mailing list aware of it. Why do I do this? Because you've stated yourself you want to take over the mailing list (which I said was your goal all along) I think your behavior has GREAT bearing on your ability to actually moderate a group without it becoming a fiasco. To everyone that this annoys, I am truly sorry. I didn't want it to come to this. But I clearly have no choice but to continue standing against Sam. If you want to solve this particular problem then please and BY ALL MEANS suggest that Bill remove BOTH me and Sam from the list...Sam because he is an aggressor and me because I'm no longer in a position where I can back down. And I think that solution would satisfy everyone's sense of fairness. And remove us BOTH forever. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:43:08 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> Subject: Re: Sam's Instructions in Private Email (fwd) You have again posted an off-topic message. I will again send you the relevant portions of the FAQ. Please print a copy out and paste it to your wall where you can see it at all times. 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd)

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi Everyone, I have tried to drop this arguement with Sam but he insists on perpetuating it. It may be embarrassing to read this stuff but it should be kept public since it does concern the operation of this list. Sam is now complaining that this tread is off topic for this list, but he convenently forgets that he is the one that started it! In his latest tirade, Sam has accused me of using this list for profit (I wish!). I should note that selling items on the list is permitted according to the FAQs, and yes I have probably made a grand total of $50 in the last six months (net not profit). Anthony is right, Sam seems to be interested in nothing more than harassing others and tearing down this list. What I would like to know is who appointed Sam to police this list? Joe At 05:59 PM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote: > > >Again I warned you. I was responding publicly to a public posting by the >OWNER AND MODERATOR of the mailing list, Sam. You are so out of line >here that I can't believe anymore that your purpose on the mailing list >is to do anything other than to harass others. > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > >PS: And I'm not going to allow you to do this privately...even if it >does annoy the group because I think everyone needs to see what kind of >person you really are and how petty and small-minded your little games >are becoming. I think this has bearing on any project that you undertake >and the extent to which others should participate in it. > > ---------- Forwarded message >---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:03:04 -0800 (PST) >From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> >To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> >Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... > > >Again, you are in violation of Section 1.1 of the FAQ which reads: > > >1.1 What is ClassicCmp? > >It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center >on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place >for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions >dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are >often better handled in private e-mail. > >Please post only on-topic messages in the future. Your cooperation would >be greatly valued by all. > >Have a nice day! > >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > >> >> Personally I think the list is great and have noticed NO difficulties >> whatsoever in its administration. >> >> I would hate to see it pass into the hands of someone who clearly does >> not have the best interests of others in mind but merely wishes to >> control it for the purposes of ego inflation. >> >> I think the list is wonderful Bill and, aside from one person who is >> clearly incapable of behaving in a rational and courteous manner, should >> remain precisely as it is. >> >> That's my two cents worth... >> >> Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >> >> > If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else >> > would like to take over with their own listserv, it would >> > be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. >> > If you can live with the current level of administration, >> > I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. >> >> > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Looking for a Q-Bus card

by peacock＠simconv.com

>I've got a quick question for everyone first. Can a KZQSA-SF (SCSI) >and a KFQSA-SA (DSSI) controller live peacefully together on the same >Q-BUS, or must I dump one to use the other? > Pretty sure you can use both, however, if I recall the KZQSA VMS driver only supports cd-rom and tape drives, not SCSI disk drives. What you probably need is a 3rd party Q-Bus SCSI disk controller that emulates an MSCP type controller card, looks like a RQDX3. Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Looking for a Q-Bus card

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 841 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980318/c132fb01/at…

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...)

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-17 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :[Compact Floppy Disks] :> those'll be the things amstrad used ad nauseam, yep? you can post :Yes. Also used on the Tatung Einstein (now that's a machine I've :not seen mentioned lately), the Oric and probably others that I've :forgotten. oh, the einsteins were cute. :> similar hardware to the memotech, from your description - including that regrettable decision to use the tms9918 for the display. those things are just not *good*... :At one time you could get 3" disks drives for about \pounds 30.00 :in the UK (when all other drives were over \pounds 100.00). I :bought one and put it as a second drive on my CoCo system - the :extra storage was very useful when running OS-9, and it didn't :matter that the disks weren't standard. unfortunately, the cost of other drives (and of disks) plummeted in the uk and the cost of the disks for the 3" remained high. that's probably what killed them, that and the proprietary nature of them (they may not have been intended as proprietary, but they seem to have ended up that way). and we can well believe that they were superior in quality. compared with the modern 3.5" disk, most things are... :Actually the design of the disk is vastly superior to the 3.5" one. :The metal shutter on the 3" disk is inside the case and is opened :by a slider on one edge. On the 3.5" disk the shutter can be easily :opened accidentally, and more importantly it can spring apart on :the inside edge. we've travelled that road... :One thing that people didn't like about the 3" disks was that they :were flippies - you turned them over to read the second side - at :least on most Amstrad machines. But there are real 2-head 3" drives :- I have some, along with the manual. not the one that was the second disk on a pcw8512. that was 80-track double-sided. what people *really* didn't like about them was paying 3 quid for a disk when they could see 3.5" disks around for 3 quid for a box. that'd annoy us, and amstrad weren't really clued up to it. :A TI 9927 (I think - the PAL version of the 9918) video chip + 16K :video memory *shakes head again* -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd)

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

Again I warned you. I was responding publicly to a public posting by the OWNER AND MODERATOR of the mailing list, Sam. You are so out of line here that I can't believe anymore that your purpose on the mailing list is to do anything other than to harass others. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead PS: And I'm not going to allow you to do this privately...even if it does annoy the group because I think everyone needs to see what kind of person you really are and how petty and small-minded your little games are becoming. I think this has bearing on any project that you undertake and the extent to which others should participate in it. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:03:04 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... Again, you are in violation of Section 1.1 of the FAQ which reads: 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. Please post only on-topic messages in the future. Your cooperation would be greatly valued by all. Have a nice day! On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > > Personally I think the list is great and have noticed NO difficulties > whatsoever in its administration. > > I would hate to see it pass into the hands of someone who clearly does > not have the best interests of others in mind but merely wishes to > control it for the purposes of ego inflation. > > I think the list is wonderful Bill and, aside from one person who is > clearly incapable of behaving in a rational and courteous manner, should > remain precisely as it is. > > That's my two cents worth... > > Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > > > If current arrangements are unworkable and someone else > > would like to take over with their own listserv, it would > > be simple to just transfer the subscription list, I think. > > If you can live with the current level of administration, > > I have no problem continuing to host the listserv. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Symbolics 3650..

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-18 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :[Symbolics 3650] :Was that the LISPMs that lived at MIT? CONS and CADR? does anyone have either tech info, or a URL where we can get such info? (what strikes us as amusing is that stallman conceived the idea behind GNU when "ripping off" symbolics software to keep lisp machines in business. ;> is any of the source he generated whilst doing this publicly available?) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

RGB monitor

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-03-18 16:57:56 EST, you write: << Sorry, I don't have the answer. I have a 12" RGB monitor that works with a IIGS but when I plug it into my Mac IIsi, I get nothing. Please let me know if you find out where you can get technical info on Apple monitors. Thanks, jstorm >> i've tried the same thing and get the same results. i have found out there are analogue and digital RGB monitors, but i do not know the difference between the two. can anyone direct us back on topic and explain the difference?

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Irreverence to irrelevance

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

sam ismail: :Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, :drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. :^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :This is not your crusade, Anthony. no but you have made it yours. you seem to be in the process of perpetuating a holy war all on your lonesome here. please desist. surely, if you have a problem with the posts of individuals, you would be better advised to take it up with them on an individual basis? we have a much longer email winging its way to you privately, but we feel that this should be said in public. it's off-topic, but so be it. and to respond to the only on-topic post we've seen from you so far tonight: no, we don't know why mits used 8800 over 8080, unless it was the simple fear of being sued for copyright violation. that question wasn't settled for a while afterward. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Finding machines (was: Question for the Faq)

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-18 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :At 12:48 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote: :>be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old :>equipment? :In no particular order: :Friends and Family (and the companies they work for) :Thrift shops :Garage Sales :Dumpsters :Surplus dealers :Internet (this list, especially) :hamfests/swapmeets/fleamarkets :classified ads :typewriter/office equipment repair businesses perhaps the original requestor was thinking more in terms of geographical areas...? sure, thrift stores, but which are your personal favourites? etc. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Sam's Instructions in Private Email (fwd)

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

Don't say I didn't warn you Sam. I do not see in the FAQ that discussions relating to the operation of the mailing list are off-topic... especially when such discussions are started by you suggesting that the list should die and be replaced by a list under your control. I do see that *BILL WHITSON* is the operator of the mailing list and not you. I am glad to see, at least in THIS particular message, you've discontinued using foul language. Please not, however, in general you post more foul language than I do supposedly off-topic messages. Perhaps you will continue to reduce your use of foul language and add to that the elimination of your harassment of me, insults directed at the mailing list and the discontinuation of your self-appointed police activities. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:23:53 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> Subject: Re: Sam's Instructions in Private Email Once again, you are egregiously off-topic. Once again, allow me to quote the FAQ so that perhaps you will begin to understand that the message you posted is not acceptable discussion material. 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw(a)u.washington.edu. 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. > I gave you fair warning that I would post your private emails and, if > they do not discontinue IMMEDIATELY, I will do so in every case so that > others can see that you are simply a bully and nothing more.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Classiccmp FAQ - PLEASE READ IT ASAP

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, I'd say we needn't be ashamed of our personalities, this IS a social, not business, list. Does anyone know how many people are on this list? > Let's keep on topic and keep personalities off the list and private. > Abide by section 2.8 and all of us will benefit. > > Marty Mintzell > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Fortune Systems 32:16 & The Trailing Edge

by dlw＠neosoft.com

Before everyone runs off... I just picked up two Fortune Systems' computers. A Fortune 32:16 SX and a Fortune 32:16 XP. These were 68K based Unix systems but I only have the base units. The XP system should have a monitor and keyboard that plug into it but those are missing. As usual with many old systems, these also came without doc and software. I helped the previous owner as much as I could with these (which was not very much) and he was able to get one up and logged in but that was about it. Does anyone out there have any info on these; specs, doc, software or a monitor and keyboard for the XP? Also, I've set up a server and registered my own domain; trailingedge.com. As this is my own hardware, connection and domain, I intend to run web and ftp services here with as many links to other classic computing sites, info and whatever files I can receive permission to place here. I hope to cover as many systems as I can add space for. So far I've only begun to move my old web pages from my ISP over to the new server but plan to update the site as I go along. I'd be happy to hear what people would like to find there or services people would like to see. You can email me at my old address dlw(a)neosoft.com or my new one dlw(a)trailingedge.com. The new web site is http://www.trailingedge.com of course. Sorry but the site isn't currently very "text friendly", (though I did view it with the current version of lynx from a Unix shell without too much trouble) but that will be changing shortly too. Thanks for your time. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com || dlw(a)neosoft.com http://www.trailingedge.com || http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

RGB monitor

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Go to Aple's web site, apple.com, and search in the tech support TIL (technical information library). You'll find everything you need and more... Marty Mintzell email:marty@itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RGB monitor Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/18/98 5:02 PM Sorry, I don't have the answer. I have a 12" RGB monitor that works with a IIGS but when I plug it into my Mac IIsi, I get nothing. Please let me know if you find out where you can get technical info on Apple monitors. Thanks, jstorm ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar18.170233.1767.32722; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:02:34 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id NAA15182; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:56:59 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id NAA24642 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:56:49 -0800 Received: from mdmserver.rfpp ([12.3.100.67]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id NAA16485 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:56:43 -0800 Received: by MDMSERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <GTNW4XV5>; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:03:15 -0500 Message-Id: <50975206F0B1D111A69E00609715143F01CEBE@MDMSERVER> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:03:13 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Storm, John" <jstorm(a)RFPP.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: RGB monitor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-To: "'classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu'" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

PN2400SA

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >This is a Practical Peripherals 2400SA, right? Little white plastic >modem with a sloped front with modem-blinkenlights? Yep >I think this is the kind of modem that taught me that when they label >one jack "line" and the other jack "phone" they may mean it. When I >got it wrong the modem behaved as above: it would go off-hook and dial >but not connect. > >Except that they didn't label the jacks on the modem, you had to look >in the manual if you wanted to know which was which. But there's only >two ways to do it, so put the cable that goes to the wall jack in the >*other* modem jack and see if that makes it work. If it isn't plugged in correctly, I think it says "NO DIALTONE", but I will check ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Irreverence to irrelevance

by jfoust＠threedee.com

A good mailing list / BBS / forum / whatever has a benevolent dictator. A moderator. Someone who rules with a light hand, and who has the time and good nature to police unruly threads. A simple solution is to reject the person's message, but this requires human intervention. It's usually pretty easy to shift these mail lists from automatic to moderated, but then there's a posting delay as the moderator approves messages... and I think it's too much to ask for someone to volunteer 10+ hours a week to trim and approve postings. I've always thought a much more sensible approach is the private news server. It allows pruning of unruly threads, either by the reader (ignoring off-topic subjects) or by a B.D. who trims away junk messages. It allows auto-archiving. It doesn't clog mail routes and mail boxes. You can read it with any Usenet news reader, just point to someone else's server. It would be easy to split into .hardware, .software, .culture sub-groups. Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> wrote: >2. Who's fault is it that you've apparently never learned to use a >delete key? Uhm, so why did you decide it was useful to include a quoted copy of Sam's post? Excess bytes vex me more than swear words, but almost as much as conspiracy theories. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 2 months

6
8
0 0

Irreverence to irrelevance

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

a)This is itself off-topic b)One needs to have some kind of knowledge and ability just to join the list >Well Sam - you know me 8-) I will reserve judgement for the moment. >Most of what you said - I agree with - How you said it - well... PS I hope the new list will be accessible via a classic computer > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Microsoft&Windows

by david＠hookham.force9.co.uk

From: Charles E. Fox <foxvideo(a)wincom.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: 16 March 1998 22:51 Subject: Microsoft&Windows > At the risk of getting incinerated, I would like to put in my two bits on >the great MS debate. > You fellows tend to resemble a lot of Grand Prix drivers running down >Fords and Chevvies. What it comes right down to is that there are a whole >bunch of people who are doing useful things with computers who would not be >if they had to depend on the equipment and software that was available >before PC's, Mac's, MS-Dos and Windows. > I saw the same thing with the introduction of self threading 16mm >projectors about twenty five years ago. The National Film Board of Canada >banned them because they chewed up film, but they made it possible for >thousands of teachers to use film in their classes. > Someday possibly we can run our modern computers with an operating system >that comes on one single sided floppy, but until then lets appreciate what >we have. Hey, we've already had that - it was called DOS (albeit versions prior to about 5.0) ;-p ------------------------------------------------- - ICQ: 9761376 page 9761376(a)pager.mirabilis.com - - http://wwp.mirabilis.com/9761376 - ------------------------------------------------- It is much easier to suggest solutions when you know nothing about the problem

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Manchester Mark I

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/CCS/ssem/ssemhome.htm We're coming up to the 50th anniversary of the first program run on the world's very first stored program computer, the Manchester Mark I. I've visited this page a bit, and its quite fascinating. They are running a competitiion for the best program written on this machine by the end of the month - emulators available. With just 6 instruction types, and just 32 words of memory (each instruction takes 16 bits of the 32 bits), no add, no bit shift, and rudimentary branching, you will be sorely pressed for space. But that's just what classic computing is all about. The winner gets to run their program on the reconstructed MkI that will be debuting in a few months. I toyed around with a packer that would let the unused bits of memory hold additional instructions, but found it damn difficult to do in 32 bytes and still end up with more than I started with!!!! The biggest killer for me was no add, no and or xor, and no bit shift! I recommend a visit. Cheers A

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Robots again

by jthiemann＠castleton.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk [SMTP:lisard@zetnet.co.uk] > Sent: March 18, 1998 15:19 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Robots again > <snippage all over the place> > however, we'd urge you to take a look at some other object oriented > languages. smalltalk, common lisp, self, oberon, etc. *much* nicer. > and > then grab a forth and roll your own :> > I have done some lisp, (in (mostly Emacs)), so I'm a bit confused about you grouping Common Lisp with object oriented languages... could you elaborate? I am somewhat amused by your mention of forth. I maintain that HP managed to create a good implementation of an object oriented Forth - RPL. (Maybe they should have called it FORTH 1 +) (Objoke: there is now an object oriented COBOL. It's called ADD 1 TO COBOL GIVING COBOL (yes, before you flame me there are better ways to increment a variable but I've luckily never had the displeasure of having to use COBOL. (ObCC: but I _do_ have a COBOL interpreter for my C= SuperPET - but I only fired it up once to see if the disk was OK. I also have APL which is _way_ cool.))) > :I'be not tried VB, and almost zero Java, but I had to use Ada for > :three years. > > oh, someone else. we had to do that, thanks to bradford university's > oh > so wonderful degree course. and to think that the oxonians were > moaning > about modula-2... > I remember the hilarious (mis)feature of Moduala-2's "dual-tasking"... This was the language we had to use for "Intro to Operating Systems"... <shudder> > ada is a disgusting language, not because it is verbose or hard to > program, but because it introduces another language - and a vast one > at > that - without giving anything *new*; it doesn't give value for money. > size without content. > The going joke is that somwhere inside Ada is a wonderful, small, efficient language screaming to get out... anyone remember who wrote this? -------------------------------------------- Joachim Thiemann DSP Coder, Castleton Network Systems I doubt therefore I might be.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

VAXstation $55/OBO

by jpero＠cgo.wave.ca

Thanks for this tidbit, Allison. I started searching but I turned up nothing at digital's website show nothing about 4000VLC thin pizza box. The Oscillator chip says 100mhz. Only have one internal Qbus slot that is taken by that "dumb" video VRAM RAMDAC / sound / keyboard i/o daughterboard and one internal SCSI port driven by NCR 53C94 chipset. The needs: BIG help is to get info and what is options can be used with this boards? I would love to use it but problem is locating one monitor, s/w, keyboard and bit of help to work with that thing. :) > <Finally now i have that name to 3 motherboards I have of that kind! > <Thank you! :) How good are these boards for and how powerful > <compared to other vaxstation? > > 8vups or better depending on model. No slug. > > Vt320 was available in amber, green, P-white. Whoops looks like mangled formatted and I missed it! I liked them but I have VT420 already. Nicer one 14" at 70HZ. Whew! > > Good price but I think shipping may be understated. Maybe... possible. Jason D. > > Allison > > > email: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Toobs!

by william＠ans.net

I now have sitting on my desk six modules from an IBM 700 series mainframe, destined for the Mill at RCS/RI. Of course, six modules does not make a computer, but I think we should at least try them out, just to see how badly they perform. Does anyone here have information on these things (pointing my finger at Mr. Pierce)? The things are not on circuit boards, so they could be traced out, but I really do not want to that. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Does a DHV11 emulate a DH11?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

DHV11 is the Q-bus 8-port MUX. M3107. Does that emulate a DH11? -------

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Question for the Faq - If there is o

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I've never bothered to go into pawn shops for anything because even the most worthless junk is way overpriced. for example, one place had two IBM 5155 machines and wanted $179 each! i bought my two for $10 each, and one was upgraded with a hard drive and expanded to 640k. i've had better luck at thrift stores and primarily at radio rallies, of which one is coming up next month. those are the best places to find old interesting stuff, computers or not. david << What kind of stores are you hitting that you are having such luck? Today - I stopped into a local pawn shop - a rare place in the suburbs - and picked up an Atari 520ST and an Atari SF354 disk drive sans cables and power supplies. My first pawn shop find. I passed on a IIgs they had, but I was tempted. What I'm really looking for is a IIe. Mike >>

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Robots again

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

lawrence wilkinson: :But a digital computer can represent rational numbers exactly as you :have (e.g. Smalltalk has a rational data type which behaves just :like any other number) but irrational numbers cause problems. But :then can an analogue machine represent irrational numbers exactly? probably not, but even if it could, how would you measure it to verify..? the strength of analogue is that it can vary smoothly, so the errors are different in character. sometimes digital is preferable. sometimes analogue is. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :>Am I to understand that you don't like SNOBOL? :^) :What exactly is SNOBOL? The library here has two books on it, I :have looked at both and couldn't really figure much out. as perl is to c, so snobol is to fortran. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Robots again

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :Very interesting. Please elaborate. My reasons for disliking OOP :stems from the fact that a Windows app in C++ is much harder to :understand than one in plain non-oop code. Who started oop anyway? simula was the first oo language, and it was pretty good (except that nobody using it realised what they had :> ). the xerox parc team who developed smalltalk did the real ground-breaking work on object orientation, and anything they wrote (alan kay, adele goldberg are two names to look out for) is worth reading. microsoft have never understood object orientation. and because of this, they have killed it (seen COM? ugh). it's a very powerful technique, and you don't necessarily need an oo language to use it. windows was written in c, designed to be called from c, and not object-oriented in the least. no wonder things are harder to use from c++. and mfc only makes things worse. take a look at nextstep sometime, if you can, to see a better approach. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Robots again

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

spc: :Well, that's because on the VAX (to bring classic computers into :this) had an ENQUEUE and DEQUEUE (I think those are the mnemonics) :instructions which handled double linked lists (of which queues and :stacks can be built out of). *sigh* never mind. did anyone ever use the polynomial evaluators, too? :Why the need for PALcode to do that on the Alpha is a bit odd - all :you really need is an instruction that does an atomic "test and :set" to ensure atomicity (hmmm, it could be that instruction they :added, although it seems strange because DEC Unix supports multiple :CPUs and you NEED that for multiple CPUs). test and set can ensure serialisation, but not atomicity. if the os isn't counting what other processors are accessing its memory, it needs atomicity because the serialisation won't be listened to. however, doubly linked lists are one of a class of things that can be tackled with a two-word compare and swap instruction (as on the 680x0) - see the synthesis description for actual algorithms, url unknown, sorry - which makes them atomic. we'll dig out the pages and post the algorithms if you wish (if they aren't too self-referential). -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

What's with the raw HTML?

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-17 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :>> make sure you set the "send mail as text only" property somewhere :>> obscure in the settings. :>Doesn't that shut down HTML for ALL mail though? You'd think a :>person could specify what type messages (easily) to each person :>individually instead of as a whole.-- :You CAN. The IE bashing is ill-informed. It's a great product. :However, in specific response to the above, you simply select that :mail is responded to in the format it was sent. Quite simple and :obvious. we road-tested it extensively for work. it isn't a great product, it's an adequate product, and every version has its own little collection of bugs. ill-informed? not when the company's future is riding on it. we'll have to go to ie4 eventually, and it's better than ie3.02, but it is far >from great. (however, we'll qualify that. if you use xml, it is great, since it's the only xml browser readily available. other than that...? use netscape instead, it may not be in bed with your desktop but hell, ain't that a benefit...? :> ) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Robots again

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :> I HATE object oriented stuff. Hate it, hate it, hate it. At least :>in C++, Java, and Visual Basic, which have been my only expoures :>to it. we disagree. there are several flavors (sic) of object-oriented programming, and whilst some of them are the invention of a sick and twisted mind (c++), some of them are just damn fine coffee... ;> visual basic isn't OO, don't be confused. and strongly typed OO systems should probably not be used for anything small or prototypical. however, we'd urge you to take a look at some other object oriented languages. smalltalk, common lisp, self, oberon, etc. *much* nicer. and then grab a forth and roll your own :> :I'be not tried VB, and almost zero Java, but I had to use Ada for :three years. oh, someone else. we had to do that, thanks to bradford university's oh so wonderful degree course. and to think that the oxonians were moaning about modula-2... we've used vb and java reasonably extensively. both are far too typed. vb doesn't even have inheritance, which renders it pretty much useless. :Ada 95 has a lot of OO features (though you needn't :use it that way). It is my most unfavourite language. Some of us :have described Ada as a read-only language (cf. C as a write-only :language). not even that. it takes up too much space, and the preferred format places variable names in capitals, rendering them almost entirely unreadable. and the OO features are only a glorified type-extension mechanism - oberon's idea, but done by committee in ada95. ada is a disgusting language, not because it is verbose or hard to program, but because it introduces another language - and a vast one at that - without giving anything *new*; it doesn't give value for money. size without content. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Robots again

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

max eskin: :a)If you think about it, a neuron in the brain is very much like an :AND gate or a transistor. It has multiple inputs and needs a certain :amount of electricty across them for its single output to go high. erm, yes, but neurons have to also "learn" what inputs should lead to one state in their outputs. they can also connect inputs and outputs as necessary, though we doubt they can reconnect. and that's assuming that the universe is entirely deterministic and humans have no souls. we're atheist, but we aren't willing to go there to stay. :b)I heard that people are working on computers with transistors so :small, they would be affected by quantum laws, and thus be analog transistors are, and always have been, analogue. look inside an old amp if you doubt this. even mosfets are analogue (they apparently have distortion characteristics more similar to valves when used in audio applications - can anyone confirm, express preferences, etc?) - the switching properties are a handy side-effect. quantum effects make transistors unreliable, not [more] analogue. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

What's with the raw HTML?

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :> make sure you set the "send mail as text only" property somewhere :> obscure in the settings. :Doesn't that shut down HTML for ALL mail though? You'd think a :person could specify what type messages (easily) to each person :individually instead of as a whole. you would, wouldn't you...? *sigh* we used ie4 for all of 2 weeks, and during that time killing html mail entirely was what we wanted. you can, though, turn it on again for individual *mails* in the properties for that mail, whilst you compose it. what you can't do is set it at any grain 'twixt the twain. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

More: Irreverence to irrelevance

by fmc＠reanimators.org

David Wollmann <dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com> wrote: > Why not steer those who can do nntp to alt.folklore.computers? a.f.c > carries discussions on all aspects of computer history, including many of > the topics discussed here. Seconded. I can think of a few recent threads that might make more sense in a.f.c (or maybe even comp.arch) than here. Oh all right, I'll be openly opinionated: host names, AI, rational numbers, and digital vs. analog computing. My opinions only, if you want to flame me for 'em do it privately. Lest y'all think I'm suggesting exiling some threads to the Usenet/alt-net ghetto: I read a.f.c too, and sometimes browse comp.arch, and would be more inclined to participate in those threads in a.f.c because I do find them interesting or amusing, I'm just not sure they're appropriate for this list. The MIME/HTML vs. plain text e-mail thread is meta-discussion, and its existence makes me wonder whether the FAQ should include a Q&A on list e-mail etiquette, or more properly things to do to get your message read by more people (post as plain text, trim quoted text, format for display on an 80-column terminal screen). For that matter, should the FAQ include references to a.f.c and other Usenet resources? > Before flaming folk for ignoring the FAQ, make it readily available. Stick > the FAQ URL at the bottom of every re-mailed message to act as a constant > reminder. How about a periodic repost of the FAQ, or parts thereof? Some folks can do e-mail but can't webulate. And having said all these things about the FAQ, I'm willing to do some work on it, like writing updated entries and/or making regular reposts happen. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

The SWTPC 6800 Repair Quest Continues

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> <> If the problem is fast sneaky pulses, how do I detect this? What's the <> easiest way and, barring that, what's the most effective way even if it <> difficult? <> <> Anthony Clifton - Wirehead Cheat, lift (bend) the D input pin so it's not in the socket and pull it up to +5v through a resistor (1k-or most anything). lacking that let it float unconnected and see what the output does. Guarentees a logic one in and Q=1 out. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Question for the Faq - If there is o

by szewczykm＠hcgi.com

What kind of stores are you hitting that you are having such luck? Today - I stopped into a local pawn shop - a rare place in the suburbs - and picked up an Atari 520ST and an Atari SF354 disk drive sans cables and power supplies. My first pawn shop find. I passed on a IIgs they had, but I was tempted. What I'm really looking for is a IIe. Mike -----Original Message----- From: rigdonj(a)intellistar.net [mailto:MIME @INTERNET {rigdonj(a)intellistar.net}] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 7:18 AM To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Question for the Faq - If there is one. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Mike, I'm in the central Florida area and I've had darned good luck here. In the last couple of months I have acquired; Altair 8800a, IBM 5100, 2 AT&T 3B2s, AT&T 3B1, 2 Tandy 6000s, a bunch of HPs, and two Commodore Pets, etc. I pass up Compaq and KayPro luggables, Timexs, NCRs, and stuff like that *EVERY* day. Even passed up a DEC last week. If you get down this way, I'll give you a tour of some good places to hit. Joe At 12:48 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote: > >If there's no FAQ there probably should be one. I'd start one myself but >I'm no where near qualified to do so. > >Anyhow, here's something that I'm sure has been asked and probably will >be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old >equipment? > >Thanks - Mike > >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Archive Corp FT60 Adapter Board Jumper Settings

by dar617＠idirect.com

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Irreverence to irrelevance

by dastar＠wco.com

This message is directed to those individuals who care that this mailing list has slowly degraded into a usenet newsgroup. The rest of you can continue to be unconcerned and skip this message. Its obvious that this mailing list needs an overhaul. Any attempts to steer it back to its proper course of discussion have been either ridiculed or ignored. Again, this goes back to my argument a few weeks back when the noise was at its loudest, which is that it all boils down to common courtesy and respect. In my normal life, I make it a point to break the rules and live against convention. I can do that without disturbing the rest of my fellow humans because the impact of my actions doesn't reach very far. Plus I don't flout convention just to flout convention, thereby inconveniencing others. However, in this tight-knit community where the slightest ripple builds into a wave and then a tsunami, it is not appropriate to continually transcend the intended use of this forum for one's own personal amusement. When you're in close quarters, you don't fart unless you're an asshole. The quality of the PEOPLE on this mailing list has declined considerably. It used to be that Bill screened participants before they were allowed to join, thereby filtering out the potential riff raff. The community we used to have, although semi-exclusive, did produce some excellent discussion material. However, now that Bill has fallen off the face of the earth and just about anyone with half a brain can join, a good majority of the discussion at times is off-topic and boorish. The worst case is the one-line reply to the hundred line quoted message. It used to be fun to read about classic computers. Now its pretty lame reading about [insert off-topic shit here]. I think the best approach to this would be to let this stupid mailing list die out and start an alternate forum. So I'm going to do just that. I'm beginning work on a web BBS which will have multiple topic areas. It will be semi-moderated and any inkling of off-topic blather will be expunged promptly. Better yet, I may even decide to turn it into a classic BBS running on a classic system (I can resurrect the never finished BBS software I was writing on my Apple //e). That way, those interested in joining will have to take some effort to do so, which will eliminate the casual turd. I'll let interested parties know when this is completed and ready for beta. Please e-mail me (need I add "privately"?) with any tips or suggestions you may have. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Your criticisms will be answered with fantasticly cruel insults and derision. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 2 months

5
9
0 0

More: Irreverence to irrelevance

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

I would think that constructive suggestions would accomplish much more than flame bait like calling folk "turds". Suggestions: Why not steer those who can do nntp to alt.folklore.computers? a.f.c carries discussions on all aspects of computer history, including many of the topics discussed here. Before flaming folk for ignoring the FAQ, make it readily available. Stick the FAQ URL at the bottom of every re-mailed message to act as a constant reminder. Experienced users tend to ignore belligerent posts rather then respond to them and waste time with pointless arguments. A gentle reminder to read the FAQ will often suffice. Finally: moderate, or get off the pot. Have you ever been a member of a committee without a chairman? Can you say: slugfest? -- David Wollmann dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

A House Divided Against itself...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Don't forget the above phrase. It CAN'T stand. Make no mistake. Sam, you've made some mistakes. LETS NOT LOSE ANY MEMBERS OVER THIS. IT'S IMPORTANT, AT LEAST TO ME. I KNOW THAT I'VE BEEN PART OF THE PROBLEM, BUT I WANT TO BE A GREATER PART OF THE SOLUTION. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

FAQ and the re-mailer

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Would it be a) desirable, b) possible to have the remailer append a very short text to each outgoing message with "Read the faq: <FAQ URL>"? This is what Red Hat do with their lists, and it's quite handy. Sure some people ignore it, but it's always there to refer people to--it's in every message in the list and most folk can just cut 'n paste the URL or double-click it to refer the FAQ. -- David Wollmann dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Irreverence to irrelevance

by jthiemann＠castleton.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: John Foust [SMTP:jfoust@threedee.com] > Sent: March 18, 1998 10:23 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance > > I've always thought a much more sensible approach is the private > news server. It allows pruning of unruly threads, either by the > reader (ignoring off-topic subjects) or by a B.D. who trims > away junk messages. It allows auto-archiving. It doesn't clog > mail routes and mail boxes. You can read it with any Usenet news > reader, > just point to someone else's server. It would be easy to split > into .hardware, .software, .culture sub-groups. > A private news server is a Bad Thing for those of us sitting at work with a firewall inbetween ourselves and the net. I do not think I will have much success convincing the firewall admins to allow news traffic to go through. -------------------------------------------- Joachim Thiemann DSP Coder, Castleton Network Systems I doubt therefore I might be.

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

DG/UX for AViiON AV-400 system?

by rkneusel＠post.its.mcw.edu

My brother recently purchased a Data General AViiON AV-400 machine at an auction ($20) It is in a tower case and has 16 MB RAM, 320 MB SCSI hard drive. He was told by someone at DG that it runs at 20 MHz using a Motorola 88000 processor. He was able to get the machine to talk to a PC connected to the com port and it works and comes up with DG/UX Bootstrap version 4.3 error, logical partition not found (or similar wording) Does this mean: (a) the SCSI drive is bad (b) the OS has been deleted And, if (b) how would he get a version of DG/UX or is there another flavor of Unix that would run on the machine? There is very little on the net about these beasts. Any help appreciated! - Ron Kneusel rkneusel(a)mcw.edu

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Altair 8800...why not 8080?

by dastar＠wco.com

How come MITS used 8800 for the Altair and not 8080? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

PN2400SA

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > No, that's not the problem. I can hear the other end howling away > on the modem's speaker, but the modem doesn't recognize it for some > reason. I want this thing to work so I could replace my 1200. This is a Practical Peripherals 2400SA, right? Little white plastic modem with a sloped front with modem-blinkenlights? I think this is the kind of modem that taught me that when they label one jack "line" and the other jack "phone" they may mean it. When I got it wrong the modem behaved as above: it would go off-hook and dial but not connect. Except that they didn't label the jacks on the modem, you had to look in the manual if you wanted to know which was which. But there's only two ways to do it, so put the cable that goes to the wall jack in the *other* modem jack and see if that makes it work. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

handy URLs

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

Now, back to on-topicness... for those of you that collect IBM family one machines, i've found an interesting place with pics, info, and other related links. web over to WWW.CAN.IBM.COM/HELPWARE/VINTAGE.HTML david

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Classiccmp FAQ > PLEASE READ IT ASAP

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Kudos to Doug Youza for the Classiccmp FAQ at www.yowza.com/classiccmp/faq.txt I downloaded this and read it last night. If you care about this List and have any consideration for those of us who want to talk vintage computer only, PLEASE READ THE FAQ, especially section 2.8 (check your personal drivel at the door). I'm a newcomer to the Classiccmp List and have found that with all the off topic (I hope I haven't been guilty of this, I've certainly tried to be on topic) postings the List is somewhat like a cow pasture, you need to watch where you step. I wade through countless inane, insipid and irrelevant postings. Why? Let's keep on topic and keep personalities off the list and private. Abide by section 2.8 and all of us will benefit. Marty Mintzell

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

AT&T Unix PC 7300....

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

I found one for sale with OS and extras, can anyone give me some feedback on it? Maybe what a fair price would be? Thanks, Aaron

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Question for the Faq - If there is one.

by szewczykm＠hcgi.com

If there's no FAQ there probably should be one. I'd start one myself but I'm no where near qualified to do so. Anyhow, here's something that I'm sure has been asked and probably will be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old equipment? Thanks - Mike

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by peacock＠simconv.com

>MS bashing in a MODERN context is off-topic, yes, but saying how >BASIC for the Altair was bloated certainly is the best of both worlds >IMHO. But to go even further back, was there any IBM-bashing before >the 80's? a 4KB paper tape Basic for the Altair was bloated? Compared to what, the 2KB Tiny Basic Dr. Dobbs was pushing? At least you got paper tape for the Altair, the Dr. Dobbs version you had to type in from very small print in the magazine. And most important, Bill's 4K Basic worked, did anyone ever get the IMSAI paper tape Basic to work? (We gave up and threw ours away after several futile tries) IBM bashing before PCs? As an old Univac/CDC type I can swear (with fingers crossed behind back) we never said a single bad word about OS/360 or the blazing speed of a 360/20, and we always envied the S/3ers their MFCU and the cute little 96 col. cards. Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

15
21
0 0

Robots again

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: ] To be fair, analog computers can do things digital computers can't. For ] example, a digital computer can only approximate 1.0/3.0 whereas an ] analog box has no trouble with this. Certain ops would also be much Actually, you've got that backwards. Contained in your message above is a totally accurate digital representation of 1/3. Oh, there it is again, at the end of that sentence. It is an analog measure of this that would lack precision. OBCC: Is there any such thing as a stored-program analog computer? I guess Babbage's analytic engine would fit that category, but all of the other analog "computers" that I've heard of (not many) just performed some fixed calculation. In my book, a stored program with sequence-control makes the difference between a computer and a calculator, manufacturer's labelling notwithstanding. Bill.

28 years, 2 months

6
7
0 0

Chunk-o-FAQ

by fmc＠reanimators.org

The other day someone re-posted section 2.8 of the FAQ and I thought it might be a good idea to repost sections 1 and 2 in their entirety, as they address what the list is about and what sorts of traffic are appropriate. I didn't write this. Bill Whitson did, and posted it to the list in early July 1977 (thanks, Bill). All I did was snarf it from http://www.heydon.org/kevan/classiccmp/1997-07/msg00028.html (thanks, Kevan). I have no comment on this. I am merely posting it for the benefit of those who haven't seen it before, and those who have, but (like me) didn't have a copy handy and need a refresher to figure out just what is irritating some folks so. -Frank McConnell --- begin included text --- 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. 1.3 What is a Classic Computer? _Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to work OK, so I've kept it. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw(a)u.washington.edu. 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get back to you eventually. 1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing anyway. 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? The daily load varies widely from about 10 messages to over 100. Average seems to be about 44 messages a day. There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week. [][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What can I talk about? Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before posting. 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC newsgroups. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there are members of this list in a number of different countries. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to find yourself a computer. 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking out!" exactly means. 2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? Ahem. Er... I'm not going to go to the extent of banning this practise but it is considered bad manners. Don't whine to me because I used to be guilty of this and curbed myself ;). Post lists of newly acquired goods if you actually need info on them, not just to show off. 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. --- end included text ---

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

pdp11s, anyone??

by jritorto＠tsoft.com

Hello folks. I just moved into the SF bay area and found myself terribly uncomfortable without my trusty pdp11, which I had to leave in Pennsylvania due to space constraints. I just now subscribed to this list, so I haven't seen any of the messages lately. My question is: Are there any pdp11s being offered for sale/free anywhere near oakland, ca? thanks for any replies. jake

28 years, 2 months

2
2
0 0

History of OSs?

by peacock＠simconv.com

>The dos geneology is roughly... > >DEC PDP-8 OS/8 (pip, stat, dir)--> RT-11/RSTS/RSX11--> > CPM-80--> > CPM86--> > dos-1.0--> > >The VAX OS line up VMS is off the RSX11 part fo the PDP-11 tree. > >DOS was a translation of 8080 CPM-80 to 8086 by seattle computer. Unix >has been an influence but largely not that great. > >UNIX has it's own tree and there are to say the least many flavors some >of which even resemble each other. >Allison To add in a bit more.... CP/M comes directly from RT-11 and the RSTS tree. Even the PIP command (peripheral interchance program) was very similar to the RT-11 version of PIP. CP/M had a more sophisticated file system than RT-11, but less sophisticated device drivers. VMS was not the first virtual memory OS that DEC wrote. TOPS-20, for the PDP-20 (that was a PDP-10 with virtual memory) was the first virtual system. TOPS-20 was not the same as TOPS-10, even the system calls were invoked a different way. (My first real systems programming job was on a 20/40, a joy to work on, tho slow by modern standards). Jack Peacock

28 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

INTEL PDS-100

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Any idea where I might find documentation for Intel PDS-100? Same place I can find a winning powerball lottery ticket I suppose? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: INTEL PDS-100 Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/17/98 12:51 PM <Marty wrote: <> <> I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or <> information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two <> prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly <> large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and <> two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives. It was introduced later in the 1983-85 time frame. 1979 would have been the more expensive and heavy MDS-2xx series. I believe the native OS was ISIS though it's possible that IRMX was also available and CPM as well from third parties. Allison ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar17.125113.1767.32401; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:51:14 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id JAA08473; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:40:54 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA20252 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:40:38 -0800 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id JAA06258 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:40:36 -0800 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA17968; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:40:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA18685; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:40:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199803171740.AA18685(a)world.std.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:40:32 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: INTEL PDS-100 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

AT&T Unix PC 7300....

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I have two one for $30 at Goodwill and one for $15 from scrape dealer. Now the same Goodwill has sold about 10 more complete with mouse and everything for $20 each. Good Luck with yours. John At 04:12 PM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >I found one for sale with OS and extras, can anyone give me some feedback >on it? Maybe what a fair price would be? > >Thanks, > >Aaron > > >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

PN2400SA

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

No, that's not the problem. I can hear the other end howling away on the modem's speaker, but the modem doesn't recognize it for some reason. I want this thing to work so I could replace my 1200. >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Subject: Re: PN2400SA > > > >>I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier. >>I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and >>the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT >>reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have >>a feeling it's something else. Ideas? >> >Does this one have separate Line and Phone jacks? Make sure you are using >Line and not Phone > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

yo

by dastar＠wco.com

Message with no relevant information, and especially having nothing to do with this mailing list. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

PN2400SA

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier. I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have a feeling it's something else. Ideas? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

PN2400SA

by peacock＠simconv.com

>I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier. >I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and >the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT >reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have >a feeling it's something else. Ideas? > Does this one have separate Line and Phone jacks? Make sure you are using Line and not Phone

28 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb