- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by groberts＠mitre.org

Tony Duell originally asked this but the group may be interested. The MMD1 8080 trainer was based on a design by Jonathan Titus and Company (Tychon Inc.) and was apparently described in a series of articles in the May-July 1976 Radio Electronics, however it is also described in "The 8080a Bugbook", a Howard Sams book (ISBN 0-672-21447-4), 1977. Tony: the two ROM sockets are for 1702 ROMS. The very simple but efficient monitor, called KEX for "Keyboard Executive", easily fits in the 256 byte space of one of these, leaving ROM socket 1 for "expansion". I don't have access to the original articles on this unit but it was easy enough to reverse engineer the assembly listing of KEX, below. I'd give y'all instructions on using the monitor but that would take the fun out of reading the source listing! i've also stuck the HEX file at the end of the listing. have fun! - Glenn * KEX.ASM * * Keypad EXecutive * * This is a reverse engineered assembly listing * of the 8080 trainer ROM. For more information see * Radio Electronics May-July 1976 issues, also Chapter 2 * of "The 8080 Bugbook" * * Glenn Roberts 2/13/97 * RST1 SET 003010A RST2 SET 003020A RST3 SET 003030A RST4 SET 003040A RST5 SET 003050A RST6 SET 003060A STACK SET 004000A USERFWA SET 003000A * * Keypad equates * H.KEY EQU 10Q L.KEY EQU 11Q G.KEY EQU 12Q S.KEY EQU 13Q A.KEY EQU 15Q B.KEY EQU 16Q C.KEY EQU 17Q ORG 0 JMP START DS 5 JMP RST1 DS 5 JMP RST2 DS 5 JMP RST3 DS 5 JMP RST4 DS 5 JMP RST5 DS 5 JMP RST6 DS 5 * * Cold boot entry, load stack and memory pointer * START LXI SP,STACK LXI H,USERFWA MAIN MOV C,M ; C is value to be displayed MOV A,H ; Output High byte OUT 1 ; of memory counter to left LEDs MOV A,L ; and low byte of memory counter OUT 0 ; to center LEDs * * Loop to process keypad input * KPLOOP MOV A,C ; output the value of C to OUT 2 ; the rightmost LEDs L110 CALL RDKEY ; Read key from keypad CPI 8 ; Is it numeric octal? (0-7) JNC L134 ; no, test for others MOV B,A ; Temp save in B MOV A,C ; Get the current working byte RAL ; and move it left 3 bits RAL RAL ANI 11111000B ; then clear low 3 bits ORA B ; and insert temp value (B) there MOV C,A ; then move back to C JMP KPLOOP L134 CPI L.KEY ; Was key "L"? JNZ L345 ; no MOV L,C ; yes, move working byte to L JMP MAIN ; and go to top CPI H.KEY ; Was key "H"? JNZ L156 ; no MOV H,C ; yes, move working byte to H JMP MAIN ; and go to top L156 CPI S.KEY ; Was key "S" (step)? JNZ L170 ; no MOV M,C ; yes, move working byte to memory INX H ; increment memory pointer JMP MAIN ; and go to top L170 CPI G.KEY ; Was key "G" (go)? JNZ L110 ; no PCHL ; yes - load Program Counter from HL DS 65 ; filler * * Delay (debounce) * * This routine delays for a bit over 10ms. * Note cycle time is 1.5 microseconds * Total delay: 62 + (294 * 24) = 7,118 cycles * 7,118 * 1.5 = 10.677 ms. * DELAY PUSH PSW PUSH D LXI D,294 ; Number of times to loop DLY1 DCX D ; Decrement DE MOV A,D ; and test for DE = 0 ORA E JNZ DLY1 ; if not, keep looping POP D POP PSW RET * * Read a key from the keypad (with debouncing) * RDKEY IN 0 ; Read the keypad port ORA A ; set flags JM RDKEY ; no key depressed - loop CALL DELAY ; have key, debounce RDK1 IN 0 ; Re-read the key ORA A ; set flags JP RDK1 ; key still depressed - loop CALL DELAY ; key released, wait IN 0 ; Read once more ORA A ; set flags JP RDK1 L345 ANI 00001111B ; Only lower nibble of interest PUSH H MVI H,0 ; Set HL to point to table ADI #TABLE MOV L,A MOV A,M POP H RET * * Lookup table for keypad * TABLE DB 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 DB S.KEY DB 0 DB C.KEY DB G.KEY DB H.KEY DB L.KEY DB A.KEY DB B.KEY END START :10000000C33800BB3A32D63AC30803318022CD5EF2 :10001000C31003210842CD46C3180323CDEC3D1184 :10002000C320030842CD7041C32803AF328C3A325B :10003000C33003153B2108423100042100034E7CEC :10004000D3017DD30079D302CDCD00FE08D25C0070 :100050004779171717E6F8B04FC34500FE09C2E508 :100060000069C33E00FE08C26E0061C33E00FE0B85 :10007000C278007123C33E00FE0AC24800E93B116A :100080000142017B3BFF2B3A7B3BE601C178D1E18A :10009000CA263DFE3DC2103DCD7F3DDAE23B21DF69 :1000A0003ACD8734FE2CCC213E21DF3A11FB4101B1 :1000B0007B3BFF2B3A7B3BE601CAC03C21D53AF59E :1000C000D51126011B7AB3C2C400D1F1C9DB00B738 :1000D000FACD00CDBF00DB00B7F2D600CDBF00DB0C :1000E00000B7F2D600E60FE52600C6F06F7EE1C944 :1000F00000010203040506070B000F0A08090D0E94 :00003801C7

28 years, 6 months

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The PC's Soviet?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >I seem to recall reading somewhere (BYTE ~1985 ?) that Soviet made CPUs >(6502 clones?) were so poorly maid that they individually came with a >list of which instuctions worked and which didn't. Also seem to recall >an article on the soviet Apple ][ clone of the time (CPU on a large >daughterboard, pirated ROM, cost approx US $20,000) > >-Matt Pritchard >Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist >MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ All right, I have taken this for a while, but no more. This ignorance about Soviet technology and abilities is ridiculous. I think you people have kept your anti-communist opinions along with you IBM 704s. Although the USSR certainly had ridiculous administration, and its technology was not very modern, there were many advances by the soviet union, and it now has just as much technology as the US. Lastly, the US scored below Russia in third grade math tests. Also, a LOT of modern programmers are Russian. Most Russian immigrants I know deal with computers. When I was in first grade (1990), we were first led into our school's new computer room. It had a classroom of terminals (in plywood cases), and a punched card machine. My young mind could not discern any other details. I don't mean to be ridiculous, but please be a bit more careful, people! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

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The PC's Soviet?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >> All right, I have taken this for a while, but no more. This ignorance >> about Soviet technology and abilities is ridiculous. I think you >> people have kept your anti-communist opinions along with you IBM >> 704s. >> >> Although the USSR certainly had ridiculous administration, and its >> technology was not very modern, there were many advances by the >> soviet union, and it now has just as much technology as the US. >> > >The soviets always had comparable technology, but were limited by >inefficient manufacturing and logistics. Those only exposed to western >design philosophy tend to belittle soviet engineers because of the >seemingly crude appearance of their equipment, but they had to meet >vastly different product requirements. Their export market was the >underdeveloped third world, no infrastructure at all. When your target >market is some place like Mongolia, Eritrea or South Yemen you have an >entirely different set of design parameters. There is no Radio Shack >down the corner, no parts store in town, no UPS delivery service. Even Why Radio Shack when you have BFI? I can just imagine a fried US made cell phone flying into a third-world bonfire...that sure would stink. Another reason why Russian products were build to last was, very simply, because if you trash your phone, you'd have to get on a two-month waiting list to get another one. > Jack Peacock > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

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FW: Anyone want to trade with this fellow?

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found on Usenet. If you want to do some trading, contact him directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: psthomas(a)nyx.nyx.net (Patrick Thomas) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: Anyone trade sun->vax stuff? Date: 15 Apr 1998 04:03:42 GMT Organization: Nyx Public Access Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <892612952.112379(a)iris.nyx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: iris.nyx.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #5 X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a Free Public Access Internet Service: http://www.nyx.net Our AUP / Free Speech Policy are at http://www.nyx.net/policies/ Direct complaints to abuse(a)nyx.net X-Post-Path: iris.nyx.net!psthomas(a)nyx.nyx.net Path: blushng.jps.net!nntp.snfc21.pbi.net!news.pbi.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.124.0.31!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!quasar.dimensional.com!nyx.net!nyx!psthomas Hi again, all... Well, after some four years of absence, my curiousity has again been piqued. After having to divest myself of my collection of VAX hardware in my move to the west coast, I find myself interested to find a microvax or vaxstation again. Even (gasp) a VAXstation 2000, if nothing else. I have a bunch of Sun 3/60s, and even a an IPC, and possibly an HP 9000/400 that I'd be willing to part with, if anyone might be interested. Or I can always go with cash, for those less- enterprising types. :) I live in Portland, now, and will pick up anything in the portland/seattle areas. I also remember how cheap VAXstation 2000s were four years ago, and I would suspect they aren't old enough to be collectible quite yet. :) I'd be more interested in something like a vs3x00 or some such. -- Patrick -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 6 months

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S-100 tech Summary (was Re: This is new...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> a problem. The Northstar Horizon was good, VECTOR MZ, COMPUPRO and the <> was an oufit that made mostly boxes all well cooled. < <Integrand? One I'd kill for even now. They designed for cooling and still had an attractive box. Allison

28 years, 6 months

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S-100 tech Summary (was Re: This is new...)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> > Some of the better boxes had put some thought to air flow > and this was not > > a problem. The Northstar Horizon was good, VECTOR MZ, > COMPUPRO and there > > was an oufit that made mostly boxes all well cooled. > > Integrand? The Integrand was one of the best. I still have one of their big S-100 boxes, fans everywhere, monster transformer in the power supply, but somewhat dificult to use all the DB cutouts on the back. Jack Peacock

28 years, 6 months

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S-100 tech Summary (was Re: This is new...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<signal lines. Every board required it's own regulation, which <could take 20% or more of the board space, as well as being a <nightmare to keep cool. If you see early pictures of loaded <IMSAIs, the cover was always off. This was a necessity, the <heat was too much with the cover on. I had to use a 16" fan to <keep mine running with 64KB of 2102 based static RAM (not 21L02s <BTW, they cost more than the fan did). Some of the batter boxes had put some thought to air flw and this was not a problem. The Northstar Horizon was good, VECTOR MZ, COMPUPRO and there was an oufit that made mostly boxes all well cooled. In the mid to late 70s it was either boxed systems like TRS-80, Apple or designer systems like S100 or SS50. SS50 was 6800 based 50 pin bus and tended to be a very different thinking. Allison

28 years, 6 months

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AT&T 6300 PSU Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 23:22, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Apr 14, 0:40, David Williams wrote: > > > You can see pictures of it on my web site on the AT&T 6300 page > > Having a text-only machine here, I can't see the pictures, alas... There's a lot of brown/grey corrosion on the top surface near the terminals, and not a lot else visible on the PSU itself, though it looks like there's some on the base of the computer case around the PSU. > > wipe off any excess WD40, though. > > I _hate_ WD40... It's far too easy to misuse and causes too many > problems. I prefer WD40 to machine oil for electricial connections, but I have to agree with Tony that it's very easy to misuse. It should be supplied in micro-syringes, not spray cans, IMNSHO. Or only available on prescription, perhaps. That's why I said to be sure to wipe off the excess. And WD40 should be kept away from moving metal parts. It's sometimes useful as a plastic anti-squeak lubricant, but definitely not for metals. I use CLP-BreakFree for that :-) > and light machine oil. Start with (UK) 600 grit, end with 1000 grit, at > least. I'd clean the screw terminals with dry 600 grit paper and then > contact cleaner. I've seen contact cleaner seriously misused too. Some types leave "a light film" behind -- if you use a little, once. I once had to fix a BBC Micro with faulty ROM sockets; the owner had repeatedly fed it contact cleaner until it was swimming in the stuff. ISTR cleaning most of it off with 1,1,1-TCE and then washing the board in Teepol (industrial grade/laboratory detergent) before it could be attacked with a soldering iron. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 6 months

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The PC's Soviet?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK... I was talking to a Ukranian programmer, who told me that in 1968 the PC was invented, not far from where he worked in Ukrane. Now, that's 4 years before the microprocessor, but is it possible? And this guy might be dilusional, he's VERY communist, but then again, at base, so am I, but with a democratic twist. Anyway, what's the story behind this? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 6 months

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neat find

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi tony, you know where to get the amd assembler for this stuff ? cheers, emanuel ---------- > From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: neat find > Date: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 3:14 PM > > > > > today at goodwill I found a Advance Micro Device AM2900 Evaluation & > > Learning Kit in the it's box (very nice design on it) with one worksheet. > > the unit was only $5. > > The comment 'you lucky beggar' springs to mind !. > > > The AMD 2900 series of chips were essentially a build-it-yourself CPU. > The main ones were : > > The 2901 - a 4 bit ALU + registers. You could cascade these to give you as > many bits as you wanted (in multiples of 4). There was also a fast carry > generator, equivalent to the 74182. Was that the 2902? > > The 2903 was an enchanced 2901 AFAIK. I never used it. > > Then there were the 2909 and 2911 4-bit microcode sequencers. You > cascaded those as well to access whatever size control store you wanted. > Add a bit of jump logic, and write the microcode to control your CPU. > > For simpler designes there was the 2910 12 bit sequencer which couldn't > easily be extended (*). That would seqeunce a 4K control store, and had > some of the jump control logic built-in. > > I've done a bit with these chips, and was reading the data books earlier > today, actually. Great pity they're no longer made... > > (*) PERQ systems used a 2910 as the sequencer on the 4K PERQ CPU board. > The 16K CPU board also used a 2910 with a '2 bit kludge' to provide the > extra address lines. The pun on '2 bit' is intentional, and will be > understood by anybody who's ever written PERQ microcode... > > > > > > > -tony

28 years, 6 months

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360 clones (was RE: The PC's Soviet?)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>> Such innovation, but it ended up in vain efforts just cloning >> IBM mainframes >> and the like. Sound like a company you know? (Minus the vain). > >Several companies: RCA Spectra, XDS Sigma, Amdahl, Fujitsu, Hitachi ... > Jack "I love MS, MS loves me" Peacock You're right. I actually have nothing against MS, just it's current product line and a few of it's business practices. A good company shouldn't need to um... err.... ahh... lobby (that's it!) anyone. Tim "Who Care's About MS, except when you need to" Hotze

28 years, 6 months

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360 clones (was RE: The PC's Soviet?)

by peacock＠simconv.com

> Such innovation, but it ended up in vain efforts just cloning > IBM mainframes > and the like. Sound like a company you know? (Minus the vain). Several companies: RCA Spectra, XDS Sigma, Amdahl, Fujitsu, Hitachi ... Jack "I love MS, MS loves me" Peacock

28 years, 6 months

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The PC's Soviet?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Yes it is possible, if you play with the meaning of "PC". If you define >it to mean a small computer used by a single person, then a low end mini >computer becomes a PC. In which case we have to go all the way back to Yes, but it would have to fit in a space that people can have.. say... at home. >machines like the Bendix G-15 (late 50s ?). The USSR did not have >microprocessors before the US. And the US was not developing an atomic bomb during WWII. >That's easy to prove, because soviet >micros all used US designed instruction sets. How could they produce an >8080 compatible IC before it was released by Intel? A better question: How could Intel make a 8080 compatible machine before it was produced by the Soviets? ;-) Honestly, I think that Soviet computers are, on the whole, a sad story. Such innovation, but it ended up in vain efforts just cloning IBM mainframes and the like. Sound like a company you know? (Minus the vain). Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 6 months

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The PC's Soviet?

by peacock＠simconv.com

> OK... I was talking to a Ukranian programmer, who told me > that in 1968 the > PC was invented, not far from where he worked in Ukrane. > Now, that's 4 > years before the microprocessor, but is it possible? Yes it is possible, if you play with the meaning of "PC". If you define it to mean a small computer used by a single person, then a low end mini computer becomes a PC. In which case we have to go all the way back to machines like the Bendix G-15 (late 50s ?). The USSR did not have microprocessors before the US. That's easy to prove, because soviet micros all used US designed instruction sets. How could they produce an 8080 compatible IC before it was released by Intel? Jack Peacock

28 years, 6 months

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This is new...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>It's easy to blame novice users and get rich quick spammers, but I can't >agree with you. I look on the 'Net as evolution in action. Right now >we have the feeding frenzy of spammers drowning us in unwanted email. >The easy, and wrong, solution is to force them to stop. The right way >is to make it uneconomical for them to send spam. How? I don't really >know, I just ignore it, sort of like background static noise on a >shortwave radio. In general, it is ignored. I know someone, who recently got online. They own a small company, and were offered 15,000 eMail addresses at .01 per person. That sounded like such a great deal! So, they sent the e-mail, and got 200 eMails that bounced, then in 3 months, had recieved 6 orderes for $5 and over 500 eMails about the bad business practices of spamming. They knew no better, but still... >But consider, what kind of response rate do spammers get? Now junk >snail mailers have to actually pay per piece, although at a reduced >rate. They have to make the junk mail attractive to readers so they can >get a high enough response rate to justify the mailing. Maybe we need >the same mechanism for mass commercial postings. In other words, the >ISP specifies in the terms of service that mass commercial mailings (aka >spam) are charged at the same mailing rates as the local post office, >something around 20 cents per item. Now you have a legal means to get >back if the ISP catches a spammer, because they are liable for the >contracted costs. Spam should be illegal. The commercialization of the Internet's what we needed for a long time: a worldwide information resource. Allowing people to profit by it (by ads, etc.) gives you more information available, and a wider user base. Even sci-fi writers didn't envision a global information resource like ours for another ten to twenty years. Let's face it: Until we go past the money-stage, for many things to become popular, they seemingly MUST be commercial.

28 years, 6 months

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S-100 tech Summary (was Re: This is new...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> S-100s started out with an Intel 8080, then Zilog Z80. That was <> pretty much the end of the 8-bit version, although there were < <Hmmm...this is sort of like the Creationist version of where S-100 came <from. Actually, a guy named Ed Roberts at a company called MITS that <built a computer called the Altair 8800 invented the S-100 bus. It's the of the form... In the beginning Ed created MITS and intel created the 8080 and it was ok,... :-) <> The response time compared quite favorably to contemporary low <> end DEC PDP-11s, and for a fraction of the cost. Actually the Alpha MicroSystems was a s100 box in the 1979-80 time frame that used the WD13 chipset (same as the LSI-11/pdp-11) with slightly different microcode and it did run with the same or slightly better performance than the LSI-11/03 it's contemporary. <> Another problem was the unregulated power supply. Unregulated <> +8 and +/-16VDC was run over the bus itself, right next to <> signal lines. Every board required it's own regulation, which <> could take 20% or more of the board space, as well as being a <> nightmare to keep cool. If you see early pictures of loaded <> IMSAIs, the cover was always off. This was a necessity, the <> heat was too much with the cover on. I had to use a 16" fan to <> keep mine running with 64KB of 2102 based static RAM (not 21L02s <> BTW, they cost more than the fan did). Typical of the earlier boxen. Their cooling path was poorly thought out at best and looking at them it's was obvious. Usually some fish paper in the right places did the trick. <> >As for laissez-faire, I never have believed in it. It makes society <> >too concerned about money. This is proven when complete crap hardware <> >is released now, and people don't care because it's good _financially An aside to this... some of the S100/SS50/trs80/apple... items from the various third parties were quite the garbage. Some fo the suppliers were patently ripoff artists where money was taken and nothing shipped. Reality check. PCs today can be purchased to do real work and expected to perform. Computers of the late '70s and into the early 80s were often useless as shipped if they worked and required a fair amount of acumen to configure, expand and *required* programming skills. The latter due to add hardware and even create applications to make them useful. For example to add a hard disk in 1980 (10mb DISCUS system was $3995.00) and that was the drive and a s100 card. The user would have to set the jumpers on the card for the correct IO ports to not conflict with their system. The system BIOS would have to be rewritten to add the hard disk and the system tracks on the floppies and the hard disks would have to be rewritten onto the media. This assumes you had the BIOS for your system and it was CP/M or similar... all others the bet was off. So to add a hard disk you needed a system that was up and running, sources, could read the sources supplied... I often had the problem of the NS* using hard sectored 5.25 and the supplied media was 8"!!! Also you had an assembler, editor, debugger and knew 8080/z80 assembler. When I went from a teltek controller to a different one... do it all over again as the new one was totally incompatable. Far cry from an IDE disk and setting the CMOS. Allison

28 years, 6 months

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S-100 tech Summary (was Re: This is new...)

by peacock＠simconv.com

>I am completely unfamiliar with S-100 systems, so could you please >explain... were S-100 technologically superior to PCs (i.e. IBM >PC 5150), or just aesthetically? As far as I know, they used an >older processor... S-100s started out with an Intel 8080, then Zilog Z80. That was pretty much the end of the 8-bit version, although there were several other variants (8085, NSC 800, Hitachi 64180, Signetics 2650, etc.). Hmm, I never recall seeing a 6502 or 6800 CPU board. Once the S-100 was standardized around the IEEE-696 specifications the good 16 bit systems started appearing. One of the earliest was the 8086 by Seattle Computer Labs (IIRC). Famous because it came with the ancestor of MS-DOS, which Microsoft later bought for their IBM PC deal. You might say all the PC software now in existence owes its existence to the S-100.... Anyway, there were quite a few 16-bit systems. Many 80286 variants, including a nice one by Macrotech, a dual Z80H/80286 CPU. There were several 68000s, TI 9900, National 32000, Zilog Z8000, and a variant on the Western Digital LSI-11 bit slice chipset called Alpha Micro. The AM ran its own multi-user operating system, very reminicent of RT-11 (there was a strong DEC influence there). Was the S-100 technically superior? Well, if you go by the IEEE-696 specifications then compared to either the XT or AT it was quite a bit better. Maximum memory was 16MB (24 bit address, 8 or 16 bit data path), 8 interrupt levels (open collector! which meant multiple boards could use the same IRQ), 16 DMA levels (still better than the 7 DMA levels on the current PC). Most 286 based systems ran up to 8Mhz reliably, some made it to 10 or 12 Mhz (compared to the original AT at 6Mhz). Even better, it was common practice to use static RAM memory on the better business systems. If that term doesn't sound familiar, cache memory on modern PCs is static RAM. The significance is that there were no wait states or lost cycles to refresh. Think of how fast your Pentium would run today if all 64MB of RAM was cache, not DRAM. S-100s were also very expandable. Motherboards usually had between 18 and 22 slots for full sized machines. You could put a lot of RAM, serial, and disk controllers in that many card slots. I built custom 286 based multi-user systems that supported 10 or more users running production business work. The response time compared quite favorably to contemporary low end DEC PDP-11s, and for a fraction of the cost. S-100s were also early adopters for much of the current crop of PC peripherals. Networking, using ARCnet at 2.5Mbps over coax. Digital Research supported network access to disk drives using CP/NET on top of MP/M II. No, it wasn't TCP/IP, but it still compares quite well to a basic Netware system. Disk drives, both the 5.25" floppy and the 5.25" hard drive showed up on S-100s before PCs. S-100s using MP/M II could support disk drives up to 512MB, long before MS fixed the 32MB barrier in the XT and AT. The S-100 did have some drawbacks, mostly from the weird control signals the CPU had to generate (anyone remember how difficult it was to simulate a PSYNC on a non-8080 processor?). It suffered terribly from early failures to standardize the bus. Many of the 8-bit systems had unsolvable compatibilty problems. (on the other hand, it did make for some extra pocket change for struggling college students who knew how to tune an S-100 to make everything work :) ) Another problem was the unregulated power supply. Unregulated +8 and +/-16VDC was run over the bus itself, right next to signal lines. Every board required it's own regulation, which could take 20% or more of the board space, as well as being a nightmare to keep cool. If you see early pictures of loaded IMSAIs, the cover was always off. This was a necessity, the heat was too much with the cover on. I had to use a 16" fan to keep mine running with 64KB of 2102 based static RAM (not 21L02s BTW, they cost more than the fan did). The single worst problem was the absolute lack of any hardware standardization beyond the 696 specs. There were no I/O addresses for anything. One manufacturer might use a WD 1791 floppy controller at port 7xH, another would use the NEC 765 floppy controller at address 9xH. There were no standardized BIOS ROMs either. Systems came with some basic boot ROM for one particular disk controller/serial interface, and that was it, everything else was supported by drivers in the machine specific version of the OS. A boot disk for an Altos wouldn't run on a North Star, not even close. For those who think it an evil that the world has standardized on the Wintel architecture for PCs, trust me, the other choice is far worse. >Was it just an issue of being used to them? Sure, but then if you wanted a good hardware oriented micro with lots of support from 3rd parties, in the mid 70s the S-100 was the only choice. You could get a board to do just about anything, tho you had to program it yourself. Nearly all boards came with schematics, if you didn't like the design or it wasn't quite compatible, you could cut traces and rewire to your own choosing. My own IMSAI is far from a standard out of the box model. >As for laissez-faire, I never have believed in it. It makes society >too concerned about money. This is proven when complete crap hardware >is released now, and people don't care because it's good _financially_ You don't like the profit motive? *gasp* That's, well, that's just plain un-american (understandable and excusable if you happen to be european tho). Jack "show me the money" Peacock

28 years, 6 months

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This is new...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<ISTR an article on alt.folklore.computers a year or so back, giving the n <the lawyer who sent the first officially-recorded unsolicited email spam. <he lost his account. I can't remember the details, so it might be hard t <(and I'm not sure of the details, but 5-6 years ago sounds about right). The landmark was right around the time I left DEC (1993). I'd been on the 'net via their gateways since before '87. I was greatly sadend when I the words went out the internet would permit commercial ops. Allison

28 years, 6 months

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This is new...

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: Wirehead Prime [mailto:wirehead@retrocomputing.com] > Not all of us ISPs are evil and unconcerned with the > Internet. I run a > good, solid business with a 95% customer retention rate > calculated over 4 > years. I don't do business with spammers or pornographers and have > written my contracts so that I can immediately terminate any customer > that violates Netiquette. I've been yelled at about that...that I'm > ... > Some of us who started in the early days of commercialization > wanted the > Internet to be like we were used to it being when we used it > from college > or businesses in the late 80s and early 90s. You can thank > CompuServe, > AOL, and hordes of know-nothing little ISPs with wads of cash to > substitute for business sense for the current situation. It's easy to blame novice users and get rich quick spammers, but I can't agree with you. I look on the 'Net as evolution in action. Right now we have the feeding frenzy of spammers drowning us in unwanted email. The easy, and wrong, solution is to force them to stop. The right way is to make it uneconomical for them to send spam. How? I don't really know, I just ignore it, sort of like background static noise on a shortwave radio. But consider, what kind of response rate do spammers get? Now junk snail mailers have to actually pay per piece, although at a reduced rate. They have to make the junk mail attractive to readers so they can get a high enough response rate to justify the mailing. Maybe we need the same mechanism for mass commercial postings. In other words, the ISP specifies in the terms of service that mass commercial mailings (aka spam) are charged at the same mailing rates as the local post office, something around 20 cents per item. Now you have a legal means to get back if the ISP catches a spammer, because they are liable for the contracted costs. And just to bring it back on topic...when consumer PCs came out (IBM, PET, Atari, Apple, etc.) those of us who built and used "real" micros (S-100s of course) lamented that fact that the microcomputer market was being overrun by large corporations bent on destroying the laissez-faire market of the mid 70s. Sound familiar? Jack "I use an IMSAI, not those toy computers" Peacock

28 years, 6 months

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Collecting Philosophy, was Re: Asshole

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 1:36, Tony Duell wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Isn't a DX11 an IBM channel interface? Originally a big cabinet with a lot > > of flip chips and lamps? I've seen two, working. > > That's right. > Where on earth did you see one of those? A few summers ago, Leeds University were getting rid of an Amdahl mainframe and supporting equipment, which included several PDP-11s and two DX11s. I managed to invite myself along with a couple of friends, one of whom acquired a complete working DX11 and one in bits, plus cables. I think there was a doc set as well. I got an 11/73 with a much smaller 3rd party Qbus version, which I've since passed on, as the same friend actually has a 360 which he's hoping to get going again. > I really must cable one of mine up again, re-read the printset, and > figure out what on earth to use it for... First find a System/360 :-) Then find a lot of space with a strong floor. Jim put his in a room which he'd prepared with a false floor. Unfortunately the materials supplier had provided the wrong grade of board, and apparently the main unit rolled in OK, but when it came to its proper position, there was a crunching sound, and the 360 settled a few inches as several of the castors punched through the floor panels. Jim wasn't too pleased (he did get it fixed, though). BTW, the little DX11-alike in the 11/73 was accompanied by a "Camtech Ethernet QBus Interface". It's a quad-high Q-bus board, with a 68000 and a 68450 (PGA types), a 68230, 68564, some memory, and the usual AMD ethernet chip set. There's a 20-pin header for the ether i/f, and two 26-pin ribbon cable connectors near a pile of 26LS30s and MC3486's, so I assume this is some sort of terminal concentrator or PAD (there's also a 2.4576MHz xtal, which implies standard 300/600/1200... baud rates). I was told the firmware didn't support TCP/IP, but some other protocol. Anybody know what that would be? Is it any use for anything? Can it be changed to use TCP/IP? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 6 months

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AT MultiProt Comm Card

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I have an IBM AT Multiprotocol Communications Adapter, new, in the original carton, with the original vinyl booklet and 5.25" disk for sale. It's only missing the cable which can easily be made from two 25 pin d-sub connectors (1M, 1F) and a piece of cable. Anyone in the US want or need this? $10 which includes the postage. It goes to the big dumpster in the sky if no one lays claim to it by Friday the 10th. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 6 months

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ESDI hard drives

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Does anyone have an ESDI hard drive for a PS/2 Model 70? I have a 60, but want to replace it with a 120 (the other size the PS/2 came with; I don't want to risk having an incompatible hard drive). I don't know if others are compatible. However, this is a wide single ribbon connector. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

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tractor feeders| Warning, DEC War Story...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<programmer would inadvertantly spool a "binary file" to a lineprinter.. W <had <an individual, in the Maynard (Ma. DEC), at one point in time, spool a jo <to <the printer that hung off the DECsystem 1090 (serious tractor feeds on th <unit!) that took a day and a half, and consumed 24 boxes of "greenbar" ( Likely an LP26 or lp14, serious chainsaw (a device than changes trees to useless pulp). <have known some of the participants, they used to reside on ML3-6... Sorr <if <I digressed too far off topic... Hahaha!!! YES! than one was infamous! Allison

28 years, 6 months

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neat find

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The AMD 2900 series of chips were essentially a build-it-yourself CPU. <The main ones were : I have about a dozen 2901s and 2911s, fun parts. Fair amount of work to make a system around them though. Allison

28 years, 6 months

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tractor feeders

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<It is an Epson LQ-500. It has a removable set of tractors, which <mounts on top. However, they mount on the output end. This means that <there must be paper in the tractors that is beyond the print head, <which means that about a sheet of paper must be wasted. Could someone <explain to me what is the idea behind this system? Serious answer... pulling is more reliable then pushing. Also if that thins is like my LQ5000 and the LQ570 it can be set up in push mode. Allison

28 years, 6 months

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tractor feeders

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Actually, my favorites are the ones where the tractors are right on the platen. No jams and no wasted paper. I once had an Epson MX-150 that jammed something awful. I got rid of that. An example of the former is the Okidata 120, which I used with my C-64. But to tell you the truth, I can't stand wasted paper almost as much as wasted hardware ;) >Most older dot-matrix printers had tractors after the platten/printhead. >Some of them, like my Sanders units have 2 sets of tractors, before and >after the platten. > >Yes, it does mean that you waste a sheet of paper when you finish >printing something - you have to do an extra formfeed. On the other hand, >I'm quite sure it saves a lot of paper due to the reduction in the number >of paper jams. A lot of 'push' type tractors seem to be great at mangling >paper... > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

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This is new...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 12:04, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > ISTR an article on alt.folklore.computers a year or so back, giving the name > > of the lawyer who sent the first officially-recorded unsolicited email spam. > > I think you're talking about Canter and Siegel, right? While this > wasn't the "first" spam, Canter and Siegel's "GREEN CARD" postings > are among the best well-known, and in many ways the most irritating. > (Canter went on the talk-show circuit after the spam disaster to > promote his book which claimed to show others how to succeed in > internet marketing.) Thanks, Tim, that's what I was thinking of. And thanks to whoever dug out the posting (sorry no attribution, I hit "delete" a bit too quick). Seems my memory was close but not wholly accurate. How unusual :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 6 months

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Collecting Philosophy

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 23:07, Tony Duell wrote: > Ouch!!!. Even my standard test for floor loading wouldn't have found that > (= Jump up and down hard. If the floor doesn't give way, put the machine > on it and jump up and down again. If it's still OK, it'll probably stay > that way). Jim now has the flooring from our Department's old machine room -- and now I know why those floor panels are so heavy :-) > > BTW, the little DX11-alike in the 11/73 was accompanied by a "Camtech > > Ethernet QBus Interface". > The only thing that reminds me of is the Camtech JNT PADs and iso-ether > PADs used in UK universities as part of the JANET network. I've not got > any, alas (I'd quite like one...), but I seem to remember that at least > the JNT pads were Z-80 based and had a synchronous serial port connection > to the outside world talking some kind of X25... We had several, but they all got cannibalised. They were indeed Z80-based, and had lots of SIOs, DARTs, and a few PIOs in them too. Neat cases as well. > I have no idea what it talked instead of TCP/IP, but it'll probably be > something that was common in the UK at the time. Any ideas? I can look > back through PERQ and Torch XXX manuals to see if anything leaps out.. I've no idea. I imagined that Camtech made other ethernet stuff, and if they could make such a good-looking QBus ethernet i/f I thought there must be more around. I've never found any, though, nor have I ever found anyone who could tell me much about long-gone Camtech (apart from JNT PADs). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 6 months

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AT&T 6300 PSU Question

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I looked at the pictures, and double checked my Olivetti M24, recently obtained from Andrew Davie. They are the same machine. This one also has a dead power suppy but none of the corrosion. The fan works because it is mains powered, 240v in this case. Hans Olminkhof -----Original Message----- From: David Williams <dlw(a)trailingedge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 14 April 1998 15:40 Subject: AT&T 6300 PSU Question I went to power up my AT&T 6300, which hasn't been up for about 4 years, and noticed that the PSU fan was coming on but the drives and motherboard didn't seem to be getting power. I opened up the system and was surprised to find the power supply was corroding. Now I'm not a PSU expert by any means so this was unexpected. The upper motherboard appears to be ok but I haven't checked the lower motherboard yet. It appears I can pull the PSU out and replace it but I'm curious as to why it began corroding in the first place. You can see pictures of it on my web site on the AT&T 6300 page or at: http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/attpwr1.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/attpwr2.jpg

28 years, 6 months

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This is new...

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

[SNIP] >shortwave radio. Speaking of shortwave, imagine if the FCC authorize commerce on ham radio! Ugh... I am completely unfamiliar with S-100 systems, so could you please explain... were S-100 technologically superior to PCs (i.e. IBM PC 5150), or just aesthetically? As far as I know, they used an older processor... Was it just an issue of being used to them? As for laissez-faire, I never have believed in it. It makes society too concerned about money. This is proven when complete crap hardware is released now, and people don't care because it's good _financially_ >And just to bring it back on topic...when consumer PCs came out (IBM, >PET, Atari, Apple, etc.) those of us who built and used "real" micros >(S-100s of course) lamented that fact that the microcomputer market was >being overrun by large corporations bent on destroying the laissez-faire >market of the mid 70s. Sound familiar? > Jack "I use an IMSAI, not those toy computers" Peacock > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

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tractor feeders

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have a minor problem with a dot matrix printer, and its feeder. It is an Epson LQ-500. It has a removable set of tractors, which mounts on top. However, they mount on the output end. This means that there must be paper in the tractors that is beyond the print head, which means that about a sheet of paper must be wasted. Could someone explain to me what is the idea behind this system? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

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This is new...

by peacock＠simconv.com

> And to make matters even worse, it was a husband and wife lawyer team! Birds of a feather, um, make that vultures, flock together... Jack "birdbrain" Peacock

28 years, 6 months

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tractor feeders

by peacock＠simconv.com

> From: Max Eskin [mailto:maxeskin@hotmail.com] > there must be paper in the tractors that is beyond the print head, > which means that about a sheet of paper must be wasted. Could someone > explain to me what is the idea behind this system? At one time nearly all tractor feed printers pulled instead of pushed. Demand documents (i.e. tear off right above the print head) was not a concern for most printers. Reports were printed in batches, then separated by operators. Also, the paper was less likely to jam if you pull it through the paper path, rather than try to push it through. Ever see a paper jam on a 1200LPM chain printer? The operator could spend a good 15-20 minutes clearing out bits of shredded paper. Computer time was more expensive than the paper, no one cared if a few pages got wasted for form feeds. Jack peacock

28 years, 6 months

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This is new...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 11:06, Allison J Parent wrote: > Try about 5-6 years and it was there before but you could get the offender > tossed before that. Also When AOL opened to the net it seemed to add to > the fray. ISTR an article on alt.folklore.computers a year or so back, giving the name of the lawyer who sent the first officially-recorded unsolicited email spam. IIRC he lost his account. I can't remember the details, so it might be hard to find (and I'm not sure of the details, but 5-6 years ago sounds about right). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 6 months

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AT&T 6300 PSU Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 14, 0:40, David Williams wrote: > Subject: AT&T 6300 PSU Question > I went to power up my AT&T 6300, which hasn't been up for about 4 > years, and noticed that the PSU fan was coming on but the drives and > motherboard didn't seem to be getting power. I opened up the system > and was surprised to find the power supply was corroding. > You can see pictures of it on my web site on the AT&T 6300 page Jason's comment about liquid sounds about right. It looks more like something was spilt onto it, than as if something self-destructed. Anyway, it's usually electrolytic capacitors that self-destruct in that way, and that normally happens when there's a voltage there. > Any ideas? Also, anyone have a spare PSU? I don't really want to go > buy another AT&T 6300 just for this but suspect the PSU won't be easy > to obtain otherwise. I'd attempt a repair, or at least some further investigation. The case looks pretty yucky but from the pictures, the physical damage might not be that great. I'd take it apart and attack the case with a wire brush or steel wool, and a very light touch of oil or WD40. The terminals don't look too bad at all, a little brushing (stiff toothbrush preferred, or a brass wire brush or fine steel wool) and a little WD40 should work wonders. Make sure you wipe off any excess WD40, though. Depending on how bad it is inside, it might be worth washing, but do make sure that (1) any capacitors are discharged before you get it wet, and (2) everything is *completely* dry before you try applying power! Again, a toothbrush is a useful tool. In many similar PSUs, the fan is driven from the 12V line. If that's the case here, it implies that at least part of the circuitry is working, which is very encouraging. Perhaps only the 5V line is dead. It's hard to suggest much more without more information, and without seeing the inside. If you do try anything, apart from the obvious precautions, be aware that there are some very high voltages inside switch mode PSUs, as high as 300V. Also, many PSUs won't operate correctly without a load on at least the 5V line; at best, they won't regulate properly, at worst, they can be damaged. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 6 months

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neat find

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

today at goodwill I found a Advance Micro Device AM2900 Evaluation & Learning Kit in the it's box (very nice design on it) with one worksheet. the unit was only $5.

28 years, 6 months

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Oops

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Sorry about the extra public traffic (and this one too). I didn't look at the "reply to" on Charles' message. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 6 months

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Asshole---drop this too!

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-04-12 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :I think we all would expect all the :subscribers to this list (and the other lists as well) to conduct :themselves in a civilized and honourable way [...] rotflmao

28 years, 6 months

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Asshole

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-04-12 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :... I only hope that there is a "silent :majority" who does not speak but disapproves them and this is the :only reason that keeps me from leaving conmans and their helpers to :their destiny by leaving this list. please, since you clearly haven't found any, assume you are wrong and bugger off. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 6 months

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This is new...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

This is new. Just brought the uVAX up again. I sent ONE message to Usenet mentioning the address. I now made it to some luser's spam list! This is the new thing... The spam appears to be in Japanese? I guess this will be the first spammer I mail that can UNDERSTAND what they're being mailed! (A-CNH) The question is, just out of curiosity, when did Usenet deteriorate to the point that spamming started? Was it around the time AOL let people on Internet? :) (J/k!) -------

28 years, 6 months

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Cassette BASIC in IBM PCs

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

My PS/2 Model 70 is a 386, released around 1990. It is the most recent machine I have seen to have ROM BASIC, with IBM DOS 3.3's BASIC.EXE jumping just fine. > >Here's one I've never run into, oddly enough. IBM PCs 5150 throrugh 5170 >had the BASIC ROM and BASIC.EXE and BASICA.EXE included with PC-DOS through >4.0 just jump to the code on the ROM. > >Later models (PS/2s) still have the Cassette BASIC, but don't seem to be >able to run the PC-DOS BASICs. Did IBM break the BASIC ROM after the 5170 >model? > >-- >David Wollmann | >dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM >http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

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Cassette BASIC in IBM PCs

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Here's one I've never run into, oddly enough. IBM PCs 5150 throrugh 5170 had the BASIC ROM and BASIC.EXE and BASICA.EXE included with PC-DOS through 4.0 just jump to the code on the ROM. Later models (PS/2s) still have the Cassette BASIC, but don't seem to be able to run the PC-DOS BASICs. Did IBM break the BASIC ROM after the 5170 model? -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years, 6 months

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This is new...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<years. It happened shortly after NSF lifted the ban on commercial traffi <and the 'net became better known to the public. Sure enough, a bunch of <marketeers with more greed than brains saw Usenet as a vast new territor <instead of what it was intended to be. Try about 5-6 years and it was there before but you could get the offender tossed before that. Also When AOL opened to the net it seemed to add to the fray. <The spam started. It has been throttled back to a degree, thanks largel <to the efforts of the anti-spam crowd (consisting mainly of sysadmins), b I haven't seen it slow. I've just about stopped posting in newsgroups and stay away from many web pages where they appear to do address capture. I don't even write in maillists (alt.sys.PDP8 to name one) that echo to newsgroups for the same reason. I'm tired of getting junkmail from some_bimbo(a)earthlink.com that really isn't earthlink and is likely a man. Even with reducing presence and using munged address in most places I still get the crap. I can live with commercial but the sex for sale is unacceptable. Allison

28 years, 6 months

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AT&T 6300 PSU Question

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I don't have graphical internet access, so I can't see the pictures, but could it be that electrolyte spilled from one of the capactiors? Just an idea... > >On 14 Apr 98 at 1:57, jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca wrote: > >> Wow! Looks like something have exploded inside and left there, >> eating away those metals...or a cat had sprayed it or mouse have >> known to get inside via a open card slot and pee. And leave rice >> sized BM's inside. This kind of corrsion looks like much liquid have >> left in there, judging by the patterns of corrsion. Did something >> have dripped on that computer? High humidry is out, you have good >> metals anywhere else because I had some that was stored inside a >> closet with high humidry and came out heavily corroded clone power >> supply box. > >I thought about that but the system has been sealed fairly well since >I put it in my climate controlled storage space. Still, it does look >like something was spilt on it. No open slots or anything so I don't >know what could have gotten inside. > >I have another AT&T PSU I've been using to power the hard drive on my >Amiga 1000. I may find a new power supply for the hard drive and use >that one as a replacement for the corroded one. Still, it would be >nice to know if something was dumped inside or the PSU itself >released something. > >> BTW, what kind of camera and type of lens used you have used to take >> this pics? That's very close up work and very sharp. > >I used a Kodak DC210 digital camera I borrowed from work. It's an >$800 camera so I'd hope it would take decent pictures. :-) I'm using >it to redo most of the images on my web site. It's a great camera. >And those images were taken at it's lower resolution. > >----- >David Williams - Computer Packrat >dlw(a)trailingedge.com >http://www.trailingedge > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

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XPS 100 Question

by kkant＠tiger.hastings.esu9.k12.ne.us

I recently received a BULL XPS 100 mini frame from out local college with all the manuals and disks.. etc It is a unix box, and I was curious if anyone has had any experience with these things? And if they can point me in the right direction to get this thing to boot :> Thanx Kenny

28 years, 6 months

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Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:32 AM 4/11/98 PDT, you wrote: >Wait a second, ARE there private newsgroups on this topic? I thought >it was just an idea everyone proposed but never did... Not that I know of. If there are, they're not letting me in. (A good idea anyway, I suppose.) >>It has. It comes up every now and then on every mailing list. What >>usually happens is that those who want a newsgroup go off a create a >>newsgroup, and the ones who can't access or don't like newsgroups stick I was speaking of mailing lists in general. As in the Land Rover list, which after many such suggestions finally split into Series and Coil Sprung lists, and now also has a newsgroup. Sometimes it goes the other way; I suspect rec.equestrian was around long before the dressage list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 6 months

2
1
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Asshole

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:28 PM 4/12/98 +0000, you wrote: >> I promise that we CAN. I didn't say anything about willing to. However, >> should I come across one, you'll be the first to know. >> Tim D. Hotze >> >Is this a promise? >> > >> > I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE >> >> somewhere for you. But if you did, would you want to risk your own reputation by sending it to him? Goodness knows, it might not have the right serial number or something, and then you'd be branded a con man for life! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 6 months

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[OFF TOPIC?] Fixed Freq Monitor Questions

by ecloud＠bigfoot.com

J. Maynard Gelinas wrote: > OK, This is mildly on topic. My monitor is an HP 1097C, making > it at least 10 years old. However, I am using it with a modern PC, so > that's where the 'on topic' issue gets a little iffy. I'm sure there > are plenty of people here who can answer this question. A pointer to > a FAQ would be most welcome. Here's one interesting URL: http://rugmd0.chem.rug.nl/~everdij/hitachi.html I've seen others as well but that was the one I made a bookmark to. :-) > These old monitors are Fixed frequency, unlike our modern > monitors which multisync. The 1097C supports only a 78.125 khz > Horizontal Scan Rate and a 72hz Vertical Refresh Rate. Now a couple > of years ago I foolishly bought one of those cards by Mirage > (www.mirage-mmc.com) which is supposed to be a 'fixed freq video > card'. Actually, it's an OEM Diamond card, basically an S3/968 video > processor with an IBM 52x RAMDAC - ala Diamond Stealth VRAM. The > fixed Freq hacks are basically a resistor (and a jumper selection) to > drive sync over green, and a homebrew PROM to skew the VESA > frequencies for several video and text modes. Hmmm, interesting. Photon also makes fixed-freq. boards, and I was tempted to get one for an old SuperMac monitor I have. I also once attempted to fix a batch of Moniterm monitors that had various problems, and the one board I found to use with them in Windows was a Vermont Microsystems model that cost way too much to begin with, and is now no longer made. There was also no driver later than Windows 3.1, so my dad has it now since he still has a slow 486. Anyhow, I thought Photon's boards were probably better than Mirage's, I forget why. They are at www.photonweb.com I think, but I can't seem to get there at the moment. > It works, but Mirage hasn't been too helpful with getting a > variety of XFree86 modelines, even though they claim to support Linux Darn, shame on them. > and XFree86. They give out _one_ modeline for 1280 x 1024, which they Well at least it works eh? Can you at least upgrade the VRAM to get more colors, or did you want low-res for some other reason? > swiped from the XFree86 distribution in 'Monitors.txt'. For Windows > and Dos, they give out a video driver which seems to work just fine. > It will even display 320x200 full screen (Quake works great in DOS!), > and boots to a functional 80x24 col text mode. How the hell do they > do this? > > Here is how I'm calculating my video modes based in the > XFree86VideoModes HOWTO (found in every Redhat 5 distribution): You understood what they said, that your horizontal line includes enough "dots" to allow time for the gun to sweep back to the beginning of the next line? So to get 1280 dots across, you might need to allow 1350-1400ish dot-clock-periods per line (or maybe even more). (dots/sec) / (dots/line) = lines/sec = lines/frame * frames/sec For example: if you want 1024 lines, allow around 1150 total lines (to allow time to sweep back to top-left between frames); so 1150 lines/frame * 72 frames/sec = (x dots/sec) / (1350 dots/line) now solve for x to get the dot clock, and to double check the formula, make sure that all the units cancel out. x dots/sec = 1150 lines/frame * 72 frames/sec * 1350 dots/line yep, line / line * frame / frame * dots / sec = dots / sec and you need a dot clock of 111,780,000 dots/sec > > Dot Clock Per Second > Total Horizontal Pixels Per Line = -------------------------- > Horizontal Scanning Rate This is right, dots / line * line / sec = dots/sec > > Since my refresh rate must be at 72hz to sync with the HP1097C: > > Dot Clock > Refresh Rate = ------------------------------------------------- > Horizontal Frame Length * Vertical Frame Length frames / sec = (dots / sec) / (dots / line * lines / frame) = (dots / sec) / (dots / frame) = frames / sec yep > > So, it's really more constructive to think of this as how many > pixels _total_ do I need to display in order to get a 72 hz vertical > scan rate with any arbitrary dot clock? In this case I need > > Dot Clock > Total Pixels Per Frame (HFLxVFL) = ------------- > Refresh Rate You did algebra on above, correct > > Since I know my Horizontal Pixels Per Line, I can use this to > determine the number of vertical lines which will support a 72 hz > refresh rate.... hmmm, this is where things get sticky. We'll start > with a DCL of 10Mhz... Why? That is too slow a dot clock to be useful. You should work backwards - figure out what resolution you want, find the corresponding dot clock, pick the closest supported dot clock to the one you calculated, and then calculate forward again to figure out what resolution you can actually get. You can also play with the blanking intervals, because the monitor has a minimum time that it takes for the gun to scan back to the beginning of the next line (or next frame), but no maximum time. If your supported dot clock is a little too slow, you can waste the time in the blanking interval to keep a standard resolution, or else optimize the resolution to use up all the available time/line. But with a fixed frequency monitor, you must also keep the horizontal and vertical scan rates in "range" - however wide that happens to be. So really, with those two constraints plus your quantized available dot clocks, that's why "fixed frequency" also means "fixed resolution". If the monitor was designed for 1280 x 1024, the card must output about that many dots in each frame and at the correct frame rate. You could output half the dots per line, and also halve the dot clock, and halve all the other values (front porch, back porch, vertical blanking interval, etc.) but if you tried to also cut the vertical resolution in half, you'd violate the line rate constraint. So as you say below, line doubling makes a lot of sense; you could simulate 640 x 480 on a 1280 x 960 screen by halving the dot clock and line-doubling each line. Text mode can be simulated by custom programming on the graphics chip, so that it actually produces dot data at 640 x 480. Keep in mind the monitor will have "total bandwidth" limitations too - it might not be able to accept too fast a dot clock even if you don't exceed the horizontal scan rate or frame rate. <second message> > BTW: no one responded to this message, so I guess no one I'm sorry, I must have missed it. Normally that subject would catch my eye. :-) > knew the answer. I received a responce to a USENET post about > this and thought there might be some interest in the group. > The VGA spec supports 'doublescan' mode for low resolution > compatability with CGA apps. This essentially forces the card Cool, makes sense, I didn't know that was a standard. I used to have a DOS CGA simulator for the Hercules card, several years ago, that must have worked this way also; simulating 640 x 200 on a 720 x 400-something display. The displayable area was smaller too, so evidently they only used 640 of the available 720 dots across. It was very useful for playing old CGA games on my mono card anyhow. > to draw each horizontal line twice, thus doubling the refresh > rate (or your vertical resolution in half at the same refresh > rate) at any arbitrary horizontal scan rate. Well, some > chipsets (like the 968, Matrox Millenium, and most ATI > chipsets), allow for tripplescanning which does exactly what > one would expect... it scans each horizontal line three times > before skipping down to the next line, thus allowing one to > drop down to a third of the vertical resolution at the same > refresh rate (same horizontal rate always, of course). Hmmm, so 1024 / 3 = 341, 960 / 3 = 320, I don't see how that would be very useful since there aren't many (any?) modes that have vertical res. in the 320-340ish range. Maybe it could be stretched a little to get 640 x 400. Quad-scan would be useful for doing 320 x 200, or they could just be wasteful with memory and do 4 pixels in VRAM for every pixel and get 640 x 400 out of it. 800 x 600 would just be plain nasty. :-) > > OK. XFree86 and SVGAlib don't support tripplescan mode, but > they do support doublescan mode because it's part of the VGA > spec. Tripplescan is vendor specific, and so thus is enabled > in different ways for each chipset. I'm attempting to hack > svgalib to support tripplescan for the S3/968... waiting for XFree you mean, or svgalib? > the 968 docs to arrive so I can find the register and register > values to set for my adapter. The rest seems fairly easy, just > hack in parsing for 'tripplescan' on the modeline and such. > > Why does this matter to you? Well, if you have an Hitachi > HM-4119, HP1097C, or somesuch fixed freq monitor, getting it to > work under Linux is pretty easy once you know the trick. Why > buy a $1500 monitor when you've got a perfectly fine one > sitting on your VaxStation 3100? Well, for the purposes of > this list, why not just use the 3100 as the xterm... but that > defeats the purpose of this message. ;-) Yep, I've been wanting to do this for years. I did it briefly with that Vermont card (and kept the hercules card also, for text mode, because the Vermont card made no attempt to support any standard modes at all; it was really intended to be a secondary display for CAD) but couldn't do any newer Windows or X with it. It also had an interesting high-level proprietary command language for drawing the primitives; I got the impression from its sketchy docs that you could actually send textual commands to its I/O port and it would interpret them in real-time. That and being an ISA card made it kindof slow. And it only had enough VRAM to do 16 colors, and Vermont wanted an arm and a leg to upgrade to 256 colors. My SuperMac monitor worked fine with my ATI All-in-Wonder, but only in Windows 95, for which there is a nice driver that lets you tweak every parameter. Tweaking similarly might be possible, if harder, in X, but I haven't tried it yet. Unfortunately the Win95 ATI driver won't tell me the numbers to plug into X modelines; I wish it would, but there are just these arrow buttons on the screen to adjust position, size, etc. My experience has been, if you are in the ballpark and the monitor is behaving itself, you can tweak it a little bit to adjust size and position; but then all of a sudden it will just go bonkers, and to get back to where you were right before that, you have to overshoot and then edge your way back (not moving the mouse, because you can't see the on-screen button anymore!) So reproducing the same results with xvidtune's tricky interface would be difficult. Someday, maybe somebody will produce a video card with a video-scaling chip built-in, so that you can multiply dots by something other than a whole number. This is the sort of thing that's already being done for LCD video projectors, video digitizers that can put the image into an arbitrarily-sized window (like my All-in-Wonder), the digital HDTVs now being designed, and maybe even some of the better laptop displays. I don't see why if they can do it for TV input they can't do it on the output signal as well. As the dot clock asks for each output dot, the chip would just have to take into account the colors of the adjacent dots, and blend smoothly; so to avoid having to read VRAM at, say, 9x dot clock, it would have to have some fast registers to store the values of the adjacent dots temporarily, and it could then read VRAM at a mere 3x dot clock. Or, it could store 3 lines in its fast memory and read the line past the next one during each horizontal blanking interval. Maybe the need for fast VRAM is the limiting factor; no, because actually scanning at 1280 x 960 requires 4x the speed of scanning at 640 x 480, whereas simulating 640 x 480 at a dot clock to achieve 1280 x 960 only requires reading VRAM at 3x the rate. So I don't know why this hasn't been done. Maybe Photon does this, I'm not sure. I think I'm going to post this on a newsgroup or two and see if we get any better answers. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud(a)bigfoot.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \_____________________________________________________________

28 years, 6 months

1
0
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AE Z-80 for Apple ][e

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-13 22:57:15 EDT, you write: << naamato(a)merit.edu P.S. Is any of this stuff rare? >> no

28 years, 6 months

1
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neat find

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<today at goodwill I found a Advance Micro Device AM2900 Evaluation & <Learning Kit in the it's box (very nice design on it) with one worksheet <the unit was only $5. I must be looking in all the wrong places. That's only my list for SBCs, next time. Allison

28 years, 6 months

5
6
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Reliability of floppy drives

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality" drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

4
3
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Collecting Philosophy, was Re: Asshole

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 13, 23:19, Tony Duell wrote: > Seriously, I think you can justtify owning several of the same machine if > the machines have expansion slots (like the Apple ][ or the PDP11) and > you've got a lot of cards you want to play with. I'm pretty sure I've got > far too many unibus cards (even with DB11 bus repeaters) for a single > machine. And I wonder how useful 2 DX11's (I do mean DX11, not RX11) are > on the same machine. Isn't a DX11 an IBM channel interface? Originally a big cabinet with a lot of flip chips and lamps? I've seen two, working. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 6 months

2
1
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Model 1 mods (was Re: obnoxious subject header)

by bwit＠pobox.com

> Wasn't there a Dennis Kitz speedup mod published in an old > 80 Micro article? He wrote a _bunch_ of articles containing > useful mods to the model 1... really an amazing guy. I wonder > what happened to him. Dennis is alive and well and may be contacted at bathory(a)maltedmedia.com.

28 years, 6 months

1
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VAX 11/750 available

by sethm＠loomcom.com

Hello everyone, Just a quick "Rescue Needed" announcement. There is a VAX 11/750 available at WeirdStuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale, CA. Most of you Bay Area classic computer enthusiasts probably know where this place is. If not, visit http://www.weirdstuff.com/. The 11/750 doesn't have any paripherals, nor any disk, but it does appear to be fully populated with cards. Be the first one on your block to own a classic, proper VAX! Anyway, it's up for auction there. If I had infinite space and lots of time, I'd go get it myself, but I don't :) -Seth

28 years, 6 months

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Collecting Philosophy, was Re: Asshole

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Even if I had the room and time to pick up every machine that was headed for the dump, what can I do with several dozen PC clones? Same goes for other systems. It's interesting to have maybe a couple, but not the "8 PDP 11/34, 22 Atari ST, 15 Apple ][" I hear. >Well, not all of us have the time to work on every single system we get >our hands on. There are only so many hours in the day left over after >life stuff (ie. job, pets, family...) and this is just a side hobby for >me. My concern first is to at least get the computers to prevent them >from being disposed of and worry about getting them running later. > >> I collect for many reasons, amongst them : >> 1) The fun and mental challenge of restoring/repairing them. Fault >> finding can be interesting, you know > >I do it for the joy of being surrounded by such an ecclectic and expansive >collection of computers that span the innovation of two decades. When I >make enough money to relax for a couple months, I'll have fun restoring >and repairing them. > >> 2) Finding out what the machines I grew up dreaming of were really like. >> And the machines that came before them. I could never afford them when >> new, now I can play with them > >Same here. > >> 4) Tracing the history of certain features. To take a trivial example, >> IOBYTE at location 3 on CP/M can be traced back to the Intellec MCS8i. It >> was at location 3 on that machine (with the same format of 4 2-bit >> fields) as locations 0-2 were reserved for the reset jump instruction, so >> this was the first free RAM location. > >This is not only fun, but in my view, relevant. These are the sorts of >tidbits that, in my nerdy opion, would make a fascinating book: where all >the standards came from. > >> I won't claim I run all my 150+ machines all the time. I have a few that >> I run quite often (the PDP11/45, the PDP8/e, the PERQ 2, a TRS-80 M4, >> this PC/AT, etc). Others I only run from time to time when I need them. >> But I do try to have all my machines operational if at all possible. > >That's commendable, but there's not a lot of need on my end to have >everything running. There's a desire, but not a need. When my collection >goes on display, it will be desirable to have at least one of everything >in the collection working with usable software so that people studying the >artifact can get a better understanding of it. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. > > Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 04/08/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

2
1
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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<backplane. It's missing box/PSU and floppy, though, so it's not terribl <functional ATM. I'm sure someone has built something even smaller with <Falcon or similar. I've seen a 11/23, RQDX3, 512k ram, dlv11j(4 serial) and a mrv11 in a custom box using a RX50 and a 3.5"MFM 40meg disk that was quite small! The backplane was 6 dual slots. Smaller than than a PC minitower. Qbus PDP-11 systems can be quite small if non dec boxes are used. Allison

28 years, 6 months

1
0
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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, the PDT 11/150 ran quite well once they came out. I ran one fo <three years under RT11 with FB and multiterminal support. It's biggest <problem was comm overruns/underruns because the I/O was all handled by a <8080 (or was it an 8085). The 11/130 used DECtapes and the 11/110 was <downloaded. It used an 8085, and the manual stated the limits of the serial ports. However if the correct handshake was used it could run pretty fast. <The biggest problem with the PDT was the price, the fact it was not <easily expandable by third parties (no Qbus) and slow. Such was the ways of DEC at the time. Then again what would be added? <DEC repeated some of the same mistakes in the PC line in the 80's. (no <QBUS on the Pro, special i/o drivers, non-standard OS version). The pro used a better form factor than Qbus, otherwise it would have been huge. If you needed Q there was always the ba11 series boxen. POS on the other hand was strange. Allison

28 years, 6 months

1
0
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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<There was a small PDP-11 about the size of a MicroVax 2000. It was <called the PDT. It had an 11/03 CPU, 64KB, 8" floppy (RX01), and some It was about twice the size of the VS2000. I have one. As to static sensitivity mine is quite good and most I know of didn't have a heat problem. What I have encounterd was system with the fans replaced with quieter low volume fans that didn't do the job. Allison

28 years, 6 months

1
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Donzelli

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Does anyone know William Donzelli's e-mail address? Donzelli, are you out there? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Asshole

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I am much more bothered by conmans (read my other reply here). I collect for >the historical inportance and for the history of design of old electronics and >for what they meant in the lives of millions of persons. I don't even care if >something is working or not. It is going to end up behing glass anyway. I I find you sick. Very sick. Keep computers functional, working, cosmetics should come second. I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE somewhere for you. >can't possibly USE the more than 140 historical computer I have in my YES YOU COULD. >collection and don't even switch them on. I don't collect them for making them >work but to display them and help to teach children and people about their >importance in the hsitory of humanity. The appearance is (nearly) everything >to me and so a mumeric keypad where it should not be is a GREAT bother to me. So what the hell are you bitching about? You got what you asked for, and now, it's not a great bother to you. So what the %$&( if it's got a numeric keypad? It's not a GREAT bother to you, but you've been a GREAT bother to Cord and everyone else on the list. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 6 months

8
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Do your homework!

by peacock＠simconv.com

> I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? There was a small PDP-11 about the size of a MicroVax 2000. It was called the PDT. It had an 11/03 CPU, 64KB, 8" floppy (RX01), and some serial ports. RT-11 was the only supported OS as the floppy took a special driver. It was a real lemon, we had a few, proved to be very unreliable as they would constantly overheat. They were also susceptible to static discharge on the case, so they didn't work too well in carpeted offices. Jack Peacock

28 years, 6 months

2
1
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Do your homework!

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2601 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980413/4d47124f/at…

28 years, 6 months

2
2
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Asshole

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> wrote: >I can't believe that all this is happening and that there are no honest people >in this list that are letting this happen withour saying anything. OK Enrico, you asked for it. I'm going to say something. The recollection I have of what happened (from reading the original flamefest on the list) is that you and Cord were swapping computers, with you expecting a TRS-80 with Level I BASIC. And that is what you got, only when you got it you found that it had a numeric keypad, unlike the original stock TRS-80. So...no, I don't understand what you're so upset about, except that you got something that didn't look like what you expected based on your preconceived notions of what a "TRS-80 with Level I BASIC" should look like. Well, as it happens I don't know whether Radio Shack ever took to manufacturing all Model 1 TRS-80s with numeric keypads after some date, or whether the numeric keypad was included with the Level II BASIC upgrade (don't think so, at least not always), or whether it was available without a Level II BASIC upgrade. So I'd have been surprised by that keypad too, but for all I know it could have come >from the factory like that or been upgraded by its original owner, who wanted to do lots of numeric data entry on a Level I BASIC system. Really I think there's a valuable lesson to be learned here, namely when trading in old computers it's a good idea to do some research and have some idea what the scope of possible configurations is, so that if you are buying you will have some idea what sort of questions to ask to find out just what the seller is selling. Or if you are selling, so you will have some idea of what you are selling. Don't count on the seller knowing what's important to you, or even where what he's got fits in that scope of configurations -- he may not. Even if he's another computer collector and/or familiar with that manufacturer's equipment, he may not know -- the sorts of questions I read (and even some of those I write) tell me that most of us have a lot to learn about these old machines, and none of us know everything about all of them. And even with all that in mind, expect some surprises! For example, a while back I bought a couple of HP 9825s from some guy in Southern California. Looking at the HP Calculator Museum web pages and some of my old HP test/measurement catalogs, I expected that one of them (the 9825B I think) would have a "computer" keyboard with full-travel keys. I didn't bother asking. Surprise, when it arrived both had the older clicky desktop-calculator keyboard of the 9825A. I pointed this out to the seller and he didn't know, though he has seen 9825s with the full-travel keys. Maybe it was an A that got field-upgraded to a B? We don't know, and I didn't really see any point in getting bent out of shape about it -- I got what I wanted, learned something, and now I have a good excuse to get another one! -Frank McConnell

28 years, 6 months

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You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sorry, but this seems crazy to me. Was Ethernet invented in 1973? Was it 10MBps then? Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 6 months

7
6
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Do your homework!

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: >Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I think >I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? The Terak main unit is about 18" x 12" x 8" DxWxH, the disk drive is the same form but about 5 1/2" tall. I remember DEC's MiniMINC, a white 11/03-ish machine roughly the same size as the Terak setup. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 6 months

2
1
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Do your homework!

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 13, 0:06, Allison J Parent wrote: > <Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I thin > <I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? > > I have an 11/23, 256k ram, dlv11j and MRV11 in a ba11va shoebox. > The floppy (RX02) is about 4 times the volume of the CPU! General Robotics made a single 8" RX02-compatible floppy in a box barely bigger than the drive itself, complete with carrying handle. A company I once worked for had one for field servoids. AFAIR it was a standard SA800 50-pin interface to connect to their own dual-height RXV controller. I've got an 11/03 (M7270) with MXV11-A and a Baydel dual-height F311 (like an RXV11, but interfaces to SA800 drives) with a 4-slot dual-width (not quad) backplane. It's missing box/PSU and floppy, though, so it's not terribly functional ATM. I'm sure someone has built something even smaller with a Falcon or similar. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 6 months

1
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VCF 1.0 Photo Gallery now online

by dastar＠wco.com

The Photo Gallery is now open on the Vintage Computer Festival web page. Photos from the exhibit hall of VCF 1.0 as well as the photos of the unveiling of the prototype Sol 20 by Lee Felsenstein and Bob Marsh are on display. The pictures show what VCF 1.0 was like and give you an indicator of what to expect at VCF2. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 04/13/98]

28 years, 6 months

1
0
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Reliability of floppy drives

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-12 19:13:50 EDT, you write: << Max Eskin wrote: > I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not > to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be > unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality" > drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? >> grrr, i hate 3.5 disks! they seem unreliable. i have software on old 5.25 disks that have lasted longer than data on 1.44 floppies. could it be the density of the data on the disk that makes them unreliable? just a guess. david

28 years, 6 months

3
2
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NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> I have a NOS SwTPc 6800 MP-A CPU board. This was the first SS-50 OK, I give up. What is the worls is NOS?

28 years, 6 months

4
3
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Modem for Apple ][gs?

by archive＠navix.net

Greets: I have a customer that is looking for a modem for his Apple ][gs. Admittadly, I don't know a whole lot about this area and some posts in the newsgroups haven't turned up much either. Anyway, I am wondering if some of you Apple experts could give me some more information on the types of modems available for the GS and any other pertinent information... such as, what type of interface is needed, software to use on the GS (terminal, etc.) and anything else you feel like throwing in. Also, I have several old Hayes 2400 baud external modems.... would these be compatible with the Apple ][gs? What else would I need to get this modem setup on that system? Any help in getting this guy set up would be appreciated. Sincerely, CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\|

28 years, 6 months

3
2
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Do your homework!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I thin <I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11? I have an 11/23, 256k ram, dlv11j and MRV11 in a ba11va shoebox. that's a 11x13x4 inch box with 4 dual slots. I use it with a tu58 dectape in a box of the same size small and light system running rt11. Often the same box can be found with a 11/2, two MXV11 nultifunction cards and a RX02 controller. The floppy (RX02) is about 4 times the volume of the CPU! Allison

28 years, 6 months

1
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A%%****<---drop this too!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Please everyone, do not echo that nasty subject line. <IIRC, the Tandy modifications were the L2 basic board, 16K RAM, Numeric <keypad, and the lower case mod. All others were 3rd party. I could make a <slight case that 3rd party mods are slightly less original, but I'm not <going to press the point. I don't think Tandy ever offered a *2 speedup. The *2 speed up was not RS, however the concession was that machine modified with those in for repair would be serviced at normal rates if the mod was unrelated to the problem. If a new logic was required do to extensive damage the pricing was different (expensive). <They may well have offered various fixes to the cassette interface - I <don't know. They did! The best one was a little board with a 4040/4001 on it. <There were many 3rd party mods. I've seen a M1 with 48K RAM in the <keyboard unit. I've even seen one (much hacked) power up with a CASS? <prompt. Yes, it was running M3 BASIC. there were some rally nice mods too. Allison

28 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

Wanted: Okimate 20 IBM interface

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Wanted: I have an Okidata Okimate 20 that presently has a Commodore "plug-n-print" interface in it and I'm in need of the IBM/Centronics "plug-n-print" interface for it. If someone has an IBM fitted Oki 20 but wants a Commodore interface (not likely) I'd like to evenly swap interfaces or if someone has just an interface for it for IBM I'd like to trade them something or buy it directly. Anyone? I need this for use with my portable PS/2 P70 when I go on jobs or such and need to print things of importance. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ # 1714857 * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Collecting Philosophy, was @##****

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Hmmm... No flmes intended (and I hope we can agree to differ on this), Same here. Of the 25+ machines in my room all are operable at a moments notice some requiring being pluged in or a terminal plugged in. <but I really can't see the point in collecting non-working computers _and <keeping them that way_. Sure I get a lot of non-working machines, but the <first thing I do is attempt to find a technical manual or scheamatic and <repair them. Working machines are a lot more interesting. The case Same here. Though I do have some that while now are working and stored SBCs are less interesting to others. But a non-working system when aquired is always tested, fixed if possible then I decide if I care to have it in a location for easy use and access. If not I tend to pull it out and periodically run it to insure it stays operable. <I collect for many reasons, amongst them : < <1) The fun and mental challenge of restoring/repairing them. Fault <finding can be interesting, you know Same here, good mental exercise and what I learn can help others. <2) Finding out what the machines I grew up dreaming of were really like. <And the machines that came before them. I could never afford them when <new, now I can play with them Big time! Some were way out of my reach back when. <3) Doing things that you can't do on a modern machine. Many classics, <even minicomputers nd workstations are simple enough to understand <completely. It's fun to rewrite microcode. It's fun to trace data through <an ALU into the registers using a logic probe and 'scope. It's fun to <debug a floppy controller at gate level. And it's fun to boot a machine <from paper tape after toggling in the bootstrap from the panel I'll add that some of my older machines are working hardware in that they support a project or run software that I've not duplicated on the PC for performance or usability. <4) Tracing the history of certain features. To take a trivial example, <IOBYTE at location 3 on CP/M can be traced back to the Intellec MCS8i. It <was at location 3 on that machine (with the same format of 4 2-bit <fields) as locations 0-2 were reserved for the reset jump instruction, so <this was the first free RAM location. Or interfaces like SCSI when it was SASI. Or 8" floppies. Allison

28 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Reliability of floppy drives

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not <to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be <unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality" <drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? It's something your doing as I've found 3.5" media to be about as reliable as I can ask for meaning they are amoung the best. Then again I also have 20year old 8" media that's still in use. There is no such thing as industrial strength drives or media. Heat and dirt are the biggest killers. All my systems use sony or teac drive as they are a bit better constructed and were available. However I ahve a 19$ drive that has been in use for about five years and refuses to quit! Im not timid about blowing out the dust and cleaning vents either! Allison

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Asshole <- Solution

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-12 15:33:58 EDT, you write: << It seems to me that there is a Historical solution for this problem, that I gather worked very well in the far distant past. Enrico has become SUCH a pain, and it seems like most of the traffic of late is a result of his insistence not to let this drop. While he may or may not have a valid problem, I no longer care, and based on the way he's acting I would suspect the problem is on his end. Because of all of this I'd like to propose a rather drastic solution >> I'm tired of hearing him whine like a little kindergartner. Welcome to my killfile, Enrico! *PLONK* Lets get back to topic!

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Mail filters

by djenner＠halcyon.com

Just another reminder that many email programs have killfiles and mail filters. Every time there is a spate of off-topic flaming or otherwise unnecessary verbage in this list, my list of mail filters grows a little longer. I now get almost no messages with profanity. It's also possible to filter out any individual who goes over the line in your estimation. I think this preferable to having additional "private lists". Of course, individuals can have correspondence with whomever they wish at any time, using personal mailing lists. Dave

28 years, 6 months

1
0
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Please -- Knock it off!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

I'm only going to say this once. I will make no replies to this post outside of private E-mail, and I will accept no arguments from those involved in the current flame-war that even HINT at attempted justification for their cluttering of the list. I have changed receipt of CLASSICCMP to 'ack' (non-digest) on my end so that I may easily killfile/filter the entire childish flame-war polluting this list, which the perpetrators of seem unwilling to take to private E-mail as should have happened when the thing first lit up. I am tired of reading about who's right, who's wrong, who's a con-artist and who's not, and who's doing what to whom and for how much. I am here for one purpose; to share knowledge of old hardware and software, specifically DECish stuff. Others, I'm going to assume, are here for the purpose of sharing knowledge of the systems they have interest in. I do not believe that anyone is here to share a flame-war. If the flame-war traffic continues in the form of list postings, I will begin filtering by author rather than by subject thread. This could cause me to miss something I value, or to fail to respond to a question that I could answer, but at this point I feel that risk is justified. Read my typing. TAKE YOUR STUPID FLAME-WAR TO E-MAIL! PLEASE! Thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

PDP11 MMU / assembly language tutorial -- THANK YOU!

by maynard＠jmg.com

Folks, I'm still digesting all the responces from Allison, Tony, and Pete... but I wanted to thank you guys for satiating my curiosity. I'm clueless, but not thankless. :-) --jmg

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Is this possible? (Storage) (Off-topic?)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sorry, but this has been bugging me for quite some time. In Star Trek, they use "Isolinear" based memory circuts to store information in both the short and long term. So, from the looks of it, it's some kind of crystal, and can transmit it's data very quickly, and with no moving parts, so I'm guessing that it's similiar to today's RAM. Now, for the hard part: It can hold entire encyclopedia's in tiny amounts. In one episiode, they had nanites, little robot-bugs that could hold "gigabytes of information," and were microscopic. Furthermore, in some episodes, they find Chodak and T'Kon ruins, between 900,000 to 700,000 years old, with half or more of the data intact. Was crystaline storage ever attempted like this? Is it possible? Feasable? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 6 months

7
8
0 0

Asshole<---drop this too!

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>First stop it. Second, if you didn't understand it I believe the comment >was sarcastic IE: we could find you a trs-80 case but since you've been >such a pain it has become highly unlikely. Kind of right. I was saying that if it was REALLY NEEDED and you couldn't ignore a row of 5x4 keys or so on your TRS-80, that there's probably someone who has either a spare case, or a will to trade their keypad-less TRS for yours. >There was no offer to supply one and there was no agreement save for you >trying to instigate one. Exactly. However, seeing as it will make a fellow collector happy, should I stumble across the model you mention, I'll tell you, and probably pay for half or more of the shipping. >A trs-80 with a keypad (one of the earliest options!) is historically >valid. Also historically valid was lower case mod, 2x processor speed up >and several different ones applied to the cassette read. This is an >athoritive statment as I was in the employ for TANDY from 1976 through >1979 and did consulting for another year after that. Exactly. For instance, I'm getting a A2+ from Jeff Kaneko. At first, I just knew that I was getting a II+. That was it. Since then, I've been deligeted to find that it's 64K, has a DA/AD converter, serial cards, a Pocket Rocket language card, etc. installed. I asked for an Apple II+. I'm getting one. Sometimes, it's better than what you wanted, sometimes it's worse, sometimes it's just different. >If you say you wanted the "first trs80" you should have specified one >that must have the 170069A PWB, and no mods/option installed. That >would have gotten you a 4k L1 machine in the first production series >(under serial number 20,000 or so). You would have had to clarify if >serial number greater than 0 or 1 was acceptable. Your lack of >knowledge of RADIO SHACK computers and how they were sold from >introduction is your loss. As well as your apparant lack of flexability, and poor eMail writing skills. In any case, let us "BAD PEOPLE" who "don't care if we've got a conman on our hands" be bad people with a conman on our hands and STOP BITCHING ABOUT IT!!! Listen, you didn't get what you wanted. You did get what you asked for. Cord's been on this list a LOT longer than you have. If we annoy you, then unsubscribe. END OF STORY. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 6 months

3
3
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available items for trade

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Available for trade: I have two computer memories hard disks of unknown origins. they are available as the processors on them are 6803s and 6522s in sockets and good for 6800 hacking. These are 1983-85 vintage. Also available for trade: Several copies of CP/M-80 2.2 manuals The programmers CP/M handbook (Osborne Associates, Andy Johnson-laird) -- next to cpm alteration guide a must have for bios design. -- mix of other DRI cpm manuals (sid, ddt, mac...), *star manauls (Wordstar, calcstar...), DbaseII and more. Roughly 33 boxes of 8" disks with CP/M CPMUG and SIGM volumes on them. This is a major cache of CPM software only exceeded by what on the WC cdrom. Two Visual 1050s, local only too heavy to ship monitor safely. These are CP/M-3 z80 systems with a 6502 doing the video (with graphics) in a pizza box case, two 5.25 floppies, provisions for hard disk and matching monitor and keyboard. I may be able to configure one 10mb hard disk. Disks and docs (including slipcase manuals) for them as well. Two 8" disks in cases(power supply) sa800s both working, to heavy to ship safely (opinion). One CCS 2200 s100 system (CCS cpu, discus controller, CCS floppy controller, CCS 4 port serial) and manuals. Circa 1980, shippable at high cost. Allison

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Asshole <- Solution

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Enrico has become SUCH a pain, and it seems like most of the traffic of <late is a result of his insistence not to let this drop. While he may o <may not have a valid problem, I no longer care, and based on the way he' <acting I would suspect the problem is on his end. Because of all of thi <I'd like to propose a rather drastic solution < <Shun Him! (in other words ignore him totally) This to me is a rehash of the dealing across the pond discussion from some 3-4 months ago. At the time I was one to say that shipping across the pond was more aggravation than it was worth even if there was profit in it. This is an example of why. Doing trades and shipping internationally are still enough of a annoyance >from my point of view to avoid them. Enrico's further galvanized me on that. Shipping is never as trivial as addressing a box and hoping it gets there and the cost is never trivial, at least to me. So when I do it I feel I should not be at risk doing it. Allison

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Asshole

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I promise that we CAN. I didn't say anything about willing to. However, should I come across one, you'll be the first to know. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, April 12, 1998 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Asshole >Is this a promise? > >enrico > >Hotze wrote: > I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE >> somewhere for you. > >> Tim D. Hotze > >-- >======================================================== >Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK >Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) >please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> >======================================================== > >

28 years, 6 months

3
4
0 0

NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> <> I have a NOS SwTPc 6800 MP-A CPU board. This was the first SS-50 <> <> OK, I give up. What is the worls is NOS? < <I think he means "New Old Stock". It's just lingo for something out of <production, but still in new, never-used condition. Makes more sense than Network Operating System NOS and 6800 in he same breath! ;-) Allison

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Asshole<---drop this too!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> <You did not say CAN but you said COULD and that, in my bad understanding <the English language, is an offer. But I am not going to argue about that <I gladly accept your kind offer now. Thank you. Hoping to hear from you s Enrico, First stop it. Second, if you didn't understand it I believe the comment was sarcastic IE: we could find you a trs-80 case but since you've been such a pain it has become highly unlikely. There was no offer to supply one and there was no agreement save for you trying to instigate one. A trs-80 with a keypad (one of the earliest options!) is historically valid. Also historically valid was lower case mod, 2x processor speed up and several different ones applied to the cassette read. This is an athoritive statment as I was in the employ for TANDY from 1976 through 1979 and did consulting for another year after that. If you say you wanted the "first trs80" you should have specified one that must have the 170069A PWB, and no mods/option installed. That would have gotten you a 4k L1 machine in the first production series (under serial number 20,000 or so). You would have had to clarify if serial number greater than 0 or 1 was acceptable. Your lack of knowledge of RADIO SHACK computers and how they were sold from introduction is your loss. Allison

28 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Asshole

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-04-12 07:24:27 EDT, you write: << >Hotze wrote: > I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE >> somewhere for you. > >> Tim D. Hotze >> well, i have a model 1 with a keypad that i could take a hacksaw to... david

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

CP/M for free...

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Just wanted to let everyone know that Caldera, which now owns all Digital Research software, has made CP/M freely available! I discovered this by accident when I went to download OpenDOS. Check it out at: http://www.caldera.com/dos/html/legacyindex.html They have a link to an unofficial CP/M page with tons of other software. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 6 months

7
6
0 0

NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

>> From: "Jeff Kaneko" <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com >> >> Guys: >> >> Afer looking at a number of responses, Uncle Roger's position >> seems the most logical to me (besides, one other person suggested >> this also). I think I'll buy that parts to build this, and just keep >> it until needed. >> >> Building it won't be a priority, though. The MP-A wasn't exactly the >> best SS-50 CPU available. I have a NOS Thomas Instruments Super CPU, >> that I've wanted to build for years. Compared with other S-50 boards >> of that era, it had alot of cool features. I am working on getting a >> couple of scarce parts for its companion video board. >> >> Jeff From: Bill Yakowenko <yakowenk(a)cs.unc.edu> >One other thing, before soldering stuff onto that board, make a copy >of it. (Do photocopiers make decent prints of bare boards?) Once >a board has chips soldered onto it, it can be a pain to figure out >which things connect to what. Having a bare-board print could help >a lot in reverse-engineering the schematic (although I suspect there >are still MP-A schematics to be had out there). And who knows, you >might someday want to clone that board. > > Cheers, > Bill. There are not only schematics, but assembly instructions and a three color print showing the top traces in red, bottom traces in blue, and component placement in black. I picked an MP-Ab bare board and documentation at a hamfest a long time ago and never used it having gone with Percom's SBC/9 CPU board and Percom's Electric Window video board. If anybody absolutely needs copies of the docs, then I will see what I can do. Mike

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Thoughts about a Classiccmp private newsgroup

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:06:32 +0300, "Hotze" <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> wrote: >>Yeah, but could such a thing be done on Linux/UNIX OS's? I'm guessing that {snip} I'm sure that Microsoft used NT for their implementation, but aren't there Un*x-based NNTP servers available?? I think that there is a post in today's digest about it. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 6 months

2
1
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my objection to recent postings

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Sometimes advertising annoys me too. But when I think about it, maybe I'd rather have those ads than not. Someday maybe I'll get something I want from one of them if prices stay within reach. More recently, I've created a related dillemna of my own. I've been talking with a recycler, trying to convince him to offer whole boards or computers for sale, rather than just a few chips that he pulls from them. In doing so, I pointed out that an Altair sold for so much money recently. Of course, I also pointed out that that particular sale may have been a fluke, and he shouldn't necessarily expect that. The dillemna is this: these are exactly the kind of guys that will annoy me most. They have no inherent interest in preserving old machinery, and would have no remorse in melting down an Altair for twenty-three cents worth of metal. They will more than happy to behave as kidnappers, demanding ransom with rare artifacts at stake, happily driving prices up as high as they can. Of course, the obvious reply is about free-market economics, prices adjusting to meet demand, and all that. What I'm thinking is, maybe we should be glad that there is not yet a well-entrenched market for this old stuff, with guide-books establishing fair pricing and such. When that happens, scarcity will force all the old machines into the hands of rich know-nothing collectors, and out of the reach of the hackers who would cherish them for what they are. But how do we discourage that from happening, while at the same time trying to divert machinery from the acid-bath? The only argument that recyclers seem likely to listen to is about making money. But each time that argument gets used, it nudges us toward the day when all of our old computers lie decaying in display cabinets of the affluent, rather than living and working happily in our own basements. Ideas? Bill.

28 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s

by fauradon＠pclink.com

If you want it bad enough everything is possible. I do belive it is our duty to perform these tasks. An x1541 cable allows you to connect a commodore disk drive to a PC why not make it the other way around and use the PC as a disk drive "server" for the C64, VIC20 and C128? And that is only one thought. On a wall at Disney world or is that Epcot center (in the ) there is an inscription that says "If you can dream it, you can build it". The PC bus is so simple that even custom interface for the really wacky stuff can be built for a few $. I think Jameco still sells prototype boards for the ISA bus. Francois PS: I know this comes up regularly but... I'm changing ISPs What is the best way to deal with the address change? ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon -----Original Message----- From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 6:45 PM Subject: Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s > >WIREHEAD'S CRAZY THOUGHT FOR THE DAY > >Using old 386 and 486 computers and their parallel ports to replace >missing peripherals from true retrocomputing systems. Hmmm... > >I wonder if a 386, for example, with a properly programmed parallel port >could emulate...say...a disk drive with a particular interface that you >can't find anymore. > >Interesting thought? > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >

28 years, 6 months

5
6
0 0

BYTE Magazine Master Index?

by engine＠chac.org

At 01:51 4/12/98 -0500, Doug of Yowza wrote: >This was the only hit I got when looking for information about a portable >called the "Agilis System". Does anybody know if this system was actually >produced -- I can't find anything about it beyond the BYTE article (Aug >1989). If we're talking about the thing that was a bunch of wedge-shaped pieces that latched together, there were prototypes -- and I saw one -- but there were no production computers AFAIK. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I seem to remember early Ethernet interface VAX quad cards < being around 1.5Mbps... not sure if it was think ether, vampire < tap stuff... This would have been before ethernet was turned < into a 'standard.' One guy I know has one of these hanging < from his wall along with some physical core for a PDP 11/44. I < was too young to have used to implemented this stuff, so I < can't claim to have actually _used_ such hardware. 802.. eithernet was always 10mbit/s. The 1.5mhz stuff was arcnet. They are similar in that they are both bus topology using CSMA/CD arbitration. Eithernet was a colaboration of Digital Eguipment corp, Intel and Xerox and was in the '70s called DIX eithernet. Allison

28 years, 6 months

6
7
0 0

conman

by e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk

This is NOT a private matter. I think it is my duty to warn others that there is a conman around. Regards enrico Russ Blakeman wrote: > Even though you live in the UK you're obviously not British, otherwise one small crack > at the buy would have been enough and you would have learned by your mistake. Isn't > this babbling enough already? Even if you got screwed, be a man and fac the fact that > from now on you need to be more careful. Drop the nasties and get onto enjoying your > computers. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ # 1714857 > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ======================================================== Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile) please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com> ========================================================

28 years, 6 months

7
6
0 0

DECMate

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Could someone tell me the URL of the PDP 8/DECmate archive? I keep losing it ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

NOS Bare Boards: What to do?

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

One other thing, before soldering stuff onto that board, make a copy of it. (Do photocopiers make decent prints of bare boards?) Once a board has chips soldered onto it, it can be a pain to figure out which things connect to what. Having a bare-board print could help a lot in reverse-engineering the schematic (although I suspect there are still MP-A schematics to be had out there). And who knows, you might someday want to clone that board. Cheers, Bill. ] From: "Jeff Kaneko" <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com> ] ] Guys: ] ] Afer looking at a number of responses, Uncle Roger's position ] seems the most logical to me (besides, one other person suggested ] this also). I think I'll buy that parts to build this, and just keep ] it until needed. ] ] Building it won't be a priority, though. The MP-A wasn't exactly the ] best SS-50 CPU available. I have a NOS Thomas Instruments Super CPU, ] that I've wanted to build for years. Compared with other S-50 boards ] of that era, it had alot of cool features. I am working on getting a ] couple of scarce parts for its companion video board. ] ] Jeff

28 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

i387's

by afritz＠iname.com

I realize that this may not quite reach the 10year mark, but not many people deal with even this old of hardware. (Is there a group out there for "obsolete" yet non-yet-classic hardware?) I need to find somewhere to get many i387 chips. (I currently need about 15 to 20 of them.) Anyone know the best place to start looking? Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz(a)iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ----------

28 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

You've got to be pulling my chain... (Ethernet)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 23:08, Tony Duell wrote: > > Some versions and OS vaiations allowed a 2KW IO space. I've run RT-11 > > that way. > > Yep, you're right. The standard on Unibus machines was for a 4kW I/O > space. I've seen PDP11/45's and PDP11/34's that were modified for 2kW I/O > space, and, indeed, undone the mods. Some Q-bus machines had 2kW I/O > space as standard, I think. The 11/03 is the most notable one with a 2KW I/O space, but that's a mod, not the standard. Quit commonly done, though, because it was only 16-bit address. > Didn't the 11/24 have an optional unibus map card (the KT24?) I've never > seen one - my 11/24 is a pretty minimal configuration. Yes, I've got one, and it is indeed 22-bit. The problem is, I only have the board set, not the backplane, front panel, etc. I have a spare backplane, and I once inrtended to rewire it and build a panel, but never found enough info (the second slot is wired to the first in a non-standard way, to accomodate the Unibus map connections). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

TRS-80 configs/formally flamefest

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well, as it happens I don't know whether Radio Shack ever took to <manufacturing all Model 1 TRS-80s with numeric keypads after some <date, or whether the numeric keypad was included with the Level II <BASIC upgrade (don't think so, at least not always), or whether it was <available without a Level II BASIC upgrade. So I'd have been <surprised by that keypad too, but for all I know it could have come <from the factory like that or been upgraded by its original owner, who <wanted to do lots of numeric data entry on a Level I BASIC system. Trs-80s early were level-1 basic and 4k ram. Later the ram, LII basic, and even the numeric keypad were offered as options or as factory models (often upgraded in the store!). Later ones had the keypad as standard and 16k as well becuase the 4k rams were actually getting scarce and the demand was for 16k. At any given point in the model one life where are variations in configurations such as three different circuit cards, at least three different keyboards and 5 different rom combinations! Also LII basic was not required to use either the keypad nor the 16k ram. For example L1 basic was either a two rom(or eprom) set or a single rom(eprom). The LII basic was initally a three roms set (eprom) on a seperate pigtail card but later ones used a two rom set that plugged into the base board with out the pigtail set. Also both basics were released using different vendors roms(erproms) that in some cases required a different dip header config or wire jumpers to use them. Even I who worked for tandy on the program was surpriced when I got a LII machine with a single peice extended keyboard (keyboard and numeric in one unit) that was apparently of late manufacture. It was however legit factory. Actually a rather pleasent surprize! Allison

28 years, 6 months

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test-drb