- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

I have trawelled the net and checked my own library but can find very little of substance on the PDP-9. Doea anyone have information on this machine? How rare is it? Regards, Hans B Pufal

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Great end to week

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well Saturday was apretty good end to the week for me and the museum. At goodwill I found a HeathKit Educational system ET100 Learning computer with kb and cable for casette recorder. Also had with it the assembly manual and a memorex tape with some sort of programs on it just reading the hand wriiten label. The bottom was signed by Jay H. Jarrett VP Product Development and the person who put it together and dated 11-26-83. At used/new dealer I got the following 5 ea Duo Dock stations with bad ps's HP 2392A terminal users manual Itermec penlight bar code reader Memories, Micro-processors, Consumer Circuits, Industrial by MOSTEK 1975. IBM 3151 ASCII display station models 11,31, and 41 guide to operations. TI Application Report TMS 9900 system Development manual 1976. Honeywell IPC627 minicop user manual Mostek The F8 Microprocessor Preliminary Databook March 1976. Signetic's Designing with Microcomputers 1976. TMS 1976 Capactive-touch keyboard Interface Circuit manual 1977. HP Laserjet IIP has jamming problem needs some work. A BCC black notebook by Northgate for $19.99 needs some work. A ZEOS hand held unit for parts $9 black case no screen. Other items not ready for 10 year rule but it was a pretty good haul for a slow day. Keep computing John

28 years, 1 month

3
3
0 0

HP 150 stiffies

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > My vague recollection is that an "application master disk" is supposed > > to have a file that tells PAM about an application -- things like what > > I've got the format of the installation file for the master disk - it's > in one of the manuals for writing your own applications. But I have no > idea quite what the installation procedure does with that informaition. I think I remember knowing it at one time, at least well enough to fake it when I needed it once -- though whether that was through reverse engineering the file format or looking at a co-worker's ISV kit manual I can't recall. > What about doing a plain sector copy on a PC or something? The disk is a > standard double-density one so a PC controller should be able to read it. > Shouldn't be too hard to figure out what sectors are used and copy them over. Sydex has a shareware device driver that is supposed to let you use HP150 stiffies directly on a PC-compatible. I tried it a few months ago on a non-classic (hmm, 7 years to go) Toshiba notebook but it was not able to read the lone 150-formatted stiffy I had handy. Whether that is because of newfangled hardware, funky notebook hardware, inability of the software to handle single-sided stiffies, or bad vibes I don't know. I am able to read the disk in a 9114B on my Portable Plus though. Hmm, maybe I'll try DISKCOPY on it tonight and see if that gets me another stiffy that the 9114B can read. Cheap thrills. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have a CD-Rom unit here at my school that needs to be identified. We don't know where we got it, and have no docs. All we have is the external box, about 6" X 15" X 2". It is labelled "DATEXT CD-ROM DRIVE UNIT", and on the back says "MODEL DTX-10" and was made April 1986. It has a centronics plug on the back. The card that came with it has a single female socket,37 pin. It is labelled CD-IFI3, and has an NEC D8255AC-5 chip on it. It is a standard 8-bit ISA. Could someone tell me how useful this thing is, what drivers I need, background on it, etc? Thanks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Osborne Executive (fwd)

by rws＠ais.net

Hi all- I received this message, and I can't help as I don't have an Executive (just a 1). Can anybody offer any ideas? You can either reply to him, or to the group and I'll forward them to him. Thanks, Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:44:10 EDT From: JWMc33 <JWMc33(a)aol.com> To: rws(a)ais.net Subject: Osborne Executive I have three Osborne Executives, all of which give me fragmented type on the screen when I turn the computer on. A friend suggested that I need to change "the batteries." I can't find them. Can you help me? John McCormick

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

HP 150 stiffies

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote (after Doug): > > So, I'm simply trying to make a copy of my boot disk. It looks like I'm > > almost there. I can boot from the new disk, but PAM says I need to > > install some apps on the disk, and then she tells me to RTFM! I don't > > have the manual, so can somebody tell me how to install apps for PAM? > Touch 'Install Applic' (or press F1) > > Put the application master disk (I hope you have this...) into one of the > drives. Touch the appropriate label in the 'FROM' column on the screen. > Put the new disk in the other drive and touch that label in the 'TO' column. There's the rub, I think Doug is trying to copy a stiffy with installed applications and he wants the applications to be "installed" on the copy too. My vague recollection is that an "application master disk" is supposed to have a file that tells PAM about an application -- things like what files need to be copied for installation, what text to put in the application's block on the PAM screen, and what to run to when the user wants the application started. Installing the application gets the files copied and the other info stashed in some file (maybe a hidden one) that PAM keeps in the root directory of the boot volume. That latter file is probably what Doug needs to copy to his new boot disk. Of course it's been umpteen years since I last thought about this and so I don't remember the filenames. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Id on Xerox workstation

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

Amongst the ACONIT collection (see previous message), I found a Xerox workstation. Its a desk side, brown tower case with a separte small box on top containing a 3.5" floppy drive. It has a large (21") screen and optical mouse. It is made up of 4 tall boards wth part numbers like 140K0xxxx where xxxx are digits. Can anyone id this system? Regards, Hans B Pufal

28 years, 1 month

2
3
0 0

Saved my bacon...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

THis running pulls 15 amps. Mustv'e been a fluke. Now, back to trying this RSTS tape... SAVRES says it has no header, and I can't boot from it... -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

More PDP-11 tricks... (How many amps did you just say?)

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I've managed to blow some obscure breaker somewhere, so now the CD head gets to decide if I get to haul my PDP-11 elsewhere. I'm not allowed to turn it on for the rest of the week, or until I find out how many amps it pulls, pray to the goddess Apthrodite, offer burnt 95 CDs, etc... Anyway, I've produced the following: I have 2 BA-11 boxes plugged into a 861C power controller, a RA81, a RA92, and a 9-track drive rated at 2 amps. Also, a TU58. How many can this pull running, and how much does that *%%%#& RA81 pull when started? Note that the 2 BA boxes are on the 861C, everything else is in the wall. -------

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Calculator displays

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

I wrote: > I shall have a look at the website someone mentioned - thanks. > > But meanwhile, can someone who has a Sharp please e-mail me with a brief > description of the segments of this 8-or-9-segment display and which > ones light up for which digits. Amazingly, there is a good image of it on the website. My last request is therefore redundant. Thank you one and all. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

remove

by JayDee400＠aol.com

remove

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

VCF2 dates & venue

by dastar＠wco.com

Its now official...the Second Annual Vintage Computer Festival will be held on September 26-27 at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, California. Another speaker has been added...Ray Holt. He designed the JOLT computer and also was involved in the development of the KIM-1 and SYM-1. That would be interesting in itself if it wasn't for the history-changing revelation that Ray will be sharing with those who attend VCF2. More to come! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

S100 speech boards

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1712 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980508/202caf53/at…

28 years, 1 month

2
3
0 0

Schematics for Apple 1 anyone?

by dastar＠wco.com

I know this is (possibly) a long shot but does anyone have the schematics for the Apple 1? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/05/98]

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

HP 150 stiffies

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 10, 11:50, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: HP 150 stiffies > > I think the real contemporary stiffies for those early drives didn't > > have the spring to pull the door closed. But I've never actually seen > > I have a couple somewhere... From memory, there is a spring - you slide > the door open against the spring and it locks open. Then you insert the > disk into the drive. When you eject it you pinch the corner to release > the catch and the door springs closed. That's what mine are like, too. The drives in the Sony WP were the same as the Apricot ones, mentioned in another reply, and Sony and Apricot upgraded to double-sided at about the same time. I've got the tech and service manuals for those drives, too. The 26-pin connector has the same signals as a modern 34-pin (barring ones that wouldn't be relevant here) and you can certainly make a simple adaptor. However, the data rate in the Sony and old Apricot systems was twice the normal rate for double-density, and the drives spin at 600 rpm instead of 300 rpm, so you can't just swap for a modern drive without changing other things to (like the PLL and differentiator circuit, and the BIOS). > BTW, does anyone remember Steve Ciarcia's homebrew touchscreen articles > in Byte? I have the reprints somewhere, and it works in the same way as > the HP150 touchscreen - IR LED/detector pairs around the screen. I've got that reprint somewhere, too. "Let Your Fingers Do The Talking", Byte August 1978 and September 1978. A 16 x 16 grid of emitters/sensors. A box near the ned of the article says "An industrial grade alphanumeric terminal incorporating touch panel input is being manufactured. For information contact: General Digital Corp, 700 Burnside Av, East Hartford CT 06108". Another box says, "NOTE: Any one building a unit from these designs should be advised that they are covered by a number of patents by the University of Illinois and may not be sold for profit". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

HP 150 stiffies

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: > I've been finding parts of HP 150's for a few months now, and I finally > collected enough of them today for a complete system (including a new > in-the-box integral printer), but I'm short on stiffies. Anybody know a > source of stiffies? I have the 9121 drive, which I think is single-sided. They aren't special, any decent double-sided 720KB stiffies should be usable. At least that is what I used to do. Well, that is, unless you have one of the real early 9121s that doesn't open the door on the stiffy. That's why some of the older HP stiffies have "pinch" stamped in the corner -- for those drives, you're supposed to slide the door over to the left 'til it catches, then pinch where indicated to close it. I think the real contemporary stiffies for those early drives didn't have the spring to pull the door closed. But I've never actually seen one -- they didn't last very long, in fact by the time we got a loaner demo 150 at that PPOE (early-mid 1983) the diskette stiffy doors were fully automatic. > The HP 150's touchscreen is pretty cool. Is there a driver for it that > emulates a mouse? IIRC, this Mac-like box predates the Mac, doesn't it? Yes it does predate the Mac. Driver to emulate a mouse? I never heard of one. Applications that wanted to use the touchscreen were mostly expected to pretend they were talking to a terminal and read the escape sequences that get generated by the touchscreen (preferable). Fairly late in my HP150 experience (1985-1986 or so), I got hold of a couple of freeware TSRs that you could load to implement chunks of the PC ROM BIOS interface on the 150. I don't recall exactly what they did (video and datacomm, I think) but I did manage to get WordPerfect 4.1 to run on the 150 with their help. And I found copies of them on a 150 stiffy last month! Not the original distribution, but I think all the files are there. Time to figure out how to get 'em up on the net for y'all. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

4
4
0 0

Homebrew Computer Club Newsletter

by dastar＠wco.com

I was going through a box of stuff last night that I got several months ago from the same guy I got my first IMSAI from. He was around back in the day and used to attend all the Homebrew Computer Club meetings. Anyway, included in the box of magazines and brochures and such that he gave me was a folder with the Homebew Computer Club Newsletter from Vol.2 #1 (Jan. 1976) through Vol.2 #15 (Mar. 1977). This is sweet! I never knew that the HCC had a newsletter. Anyway, I haven't had a chance to go through them but there is some pretty wild stuff in them. The first issue I have has an "Open Letter to Hobbyists" from Bill Gates decrying the pirating of the Altair BASIC. The next issue has a response to Bill's letter chiding him for giving the software away in the first place and then complaining about piracy after the fact. Wild! I also found out I have Dr. Dobbs Journal of Computer Calisthenics and Orthodontia from Issue 1 on up through 1982. Sweet. I'll be reading through the Newsletters and will report any amazing revelations. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/05/98]

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Bull/Convergent part ids

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

I picked up some unknown (to me) parts today for next to nothing. I would like to know what they are and if anyone wants these I can send them for the price of shipping. 2 externally identical modules, black plastic cases with 50 pin double row sockect connector. One is marked "Bull SA, type CMM1123 XVA M 7C 22940" the other "Convergent XM-003 AB for use with Ngen computers" and a sticker "1MB" I think these are 1Mb memory modules for Ngen computer? Then I have three apparently identical units. Metal boxes 10" x 3.5" x 1". There is a 120 pin connector of two rows of 60 pins. At one end is a 16 position thumbwheel switch, on one edge there are 8 LEDs in two block of 4 numbered 1-8. They all have Bull SA stickers with "Type CPF 1102" and "XVA K 22 06606" printed on them. Regards, Hans B Pufal

28 years, 1 month

4
3
0 0

HP 150 stiffies

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

> >HP adopted 3.5" disks before they evolved into the disk used commonly >today, so newer disks aren't compatible. Of course, HP also used a >proprietary formatting scheme. > >-- Doug > Wronnngggg! They are compatible. I've been using regular commercial 3.5" disk in my HP 150, Integral and other HPs for years. You just have to format them in the HP machine to get the HP format. Almost all the HPs use different formats so you have to format them in the same type machine and drive that you're goint to use them in. FWIW all those floppy drives are made by Sony. I found a pretty good HP 150 FAQ. It's at "http://www.mdn.com/oksoftware/Computers/hp150faq.html". Joe

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Off-topic help request

by dastar＠wco.com

Ok, how come when I'm using a windows95 based telnet client I get all sorts of wacky-assed errors when I'm using PINE, like "Folder closed due to access error" and "Folder reduced to 0 bytes" and "error this" and "error that". Basically stuff I never get when I'm using ProComm Plus. Why is this? Why is a bug-free telnet session such a chore under Windows? This is not just with the lame windows telnet either. I thought getting CRT would clear this up but it happens with that too. What's going on here? Any help would be greatly apprciated, especially in private e-mail. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/05/98]

28 years, 1 month

3
3
0 0

HP 150 stiffies

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 9, 22:12, Frank McConnell wrote: > I think the real contemporary stiffies for those early drives didn't > have the spring to pull the door closed. But I've never actually seen > one -- they didn't last very long, in fact by the time we got a loaner > demo 150 at that PPOE (early-mid 1983) the diskette stiffy doors were > fully automatic. The first Apricot computers in the UK, and Sony wordprocessor systems, both used single-sided stiffies, with the catch for the shutter. They did have the spring, though. I've still got a few. The Sony systems used a proprietary format that I never had details of, but the Apricot used a variant of MS-DOS with 9 sectors per track, but only 70 tracks (315K/disk). The Apricot disks were a delicate shade of disgusting red, to match the colour of the company logo, but the Sony ones were the blue that became "standard". > > The HP 150's touchscreen is pretty cool. Is there a driver for it that > > emulates a mouse? IIRC, this Mac-like box predates the Mac, doesn't it? i had one for awhile, but missing the keyboard, so I gave it to someone else (who had a keyboard). Anybody got a system disk they could make an image of? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Anyone interested in a CBM 8050 drive?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I got a line on two 8050 floppy drives for the PETs. I want one; would anyone be interested in the second one? Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separaator ==========>>>

28 years, 1 month

6
6
0 0

Proposal: "Legacy" Open Products Partition

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>> Yes, we should have "levels" of experience. So that a Level 1 job could be > >Does this need to be done formally? I mean, when, for example, I bought >the service manual for my monitor, or the IBM techrefs, nobody bothered >to check I knew what I was doing with them. They just took my payment and >sent the manual. Not really formally, perhaps semi-formally. All pages would be rated, but we're not going to have an exam or anything. >While we need to be not responsible for how the information is used, I >think that should be the end of it. Yes, but just to give an aprox. guide. For instance, if someone wants to fix their old mono monitor, and they have a Level 2 hardware experience, they wouldn't want to read the Level 5 document, especially if they're busy, and don't want to spend too much time. It could also be used to give people a basic feeling of what they can-and cannot do. >Perhaps you could enlighten me. I know of only one way to fix a PCB - >look for obvious failures/shorts, power it up and start tracing signals >with a logic analyser. Is that the easy way or the hard way, and what is >the other way. That's the hard way. There are 2 easy ways that I know of: 1) Take it to a shop or 2) Get a new one. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Support for obsolete products

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I understand the economic logic of no longer supporting products that aren't being sold (aren't making money) and that are deemed obsolete by being two generations behind today's products. But at that point, the company has decided that any ill will caused by this decision isn't worth the cost or aggravation of continued support. Certainly some companies turn over continued support to third parties - when the third party thinks there's some money in it. But what about a non-profit organization for products that absolutely no one wants to support? Just send them the docs and let them archive them. Companies donate old office equipment to good causes, why not old docs or source code? - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

5
4
0 0

Proposal: "Legacy" Open Products Partition

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>On the other hand, since DEC, HP and Tektronix have all helped me with >parts/docs for totally ancient machines, I am recomending those companies >to others. Exactly. This machine's a Compaq. Now, at the time, I solemnly thought that they were the best PC's available. Now, since then, I've had problems with the videocard, BIOS, busses, etc. When I contact their tech support, in general, they'll give me any solution that costs money, or charge me money for their time. >Be careful here. Ditto. >Some companies believe that they _are_ responsible for the information, >and any use to which it may be put. On several occasions I have been >refused a service manual because 'If you try to repair it and make a >mistake you could be killed' No amount of telling them that it's even >more dangerous to do the repair without the service manual worked. OK. So we'll need to say something like "No longer NEED be responsible for information." They need to share it, not give it. >It appears that there are too many lawyers who are there to put the blame >on somebody else when the customer makes a mistakes. I am not happy about >this, but.... > >Some companies will release 'safe' information (software sources, CPU >board schematics', but not 'dangerous' information (schematics of >monitors and PSUs, for example). I see. We'll need a disclaimer: "Anyinformation you recieve here could ultimately be harardous to your heatlh. DO NOT OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY WHILE READING A TECHNICAL DOCUMENT." (Last sentence lighthearted.) >If we do convince companies to release information, we'd need to have >some proper legal document which removed any responsibility from the >company. You use this info and hurt yourself - it's your fault. Yep. Does anyone know how the GPL was made???? >> 2) Central orginazation. Something like GNU, but less proffesional. It >> would contain all archives collected, as well as user-made enhancements, >> notes or other docs. (For example: Getting a ST 251 to work under > >You'd need to make it very clear which notes were 'official' and which >were 3rd party. Ditto. Also, we'd need to prioritize companies. Companies that were most likely to give us info first, and then less last. So that if we had 5 or 6 industry juggernauts giving us information, then possibly a company like Sharp just might. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

4
4
0 0

A little off-topic help needed...

by rax＠warbaby.com

Hi All - This is somewhat off-topic (maybe way-off-topic, depending on how you feel about Macs), but I've been trying to find some 30 pin, 8 or 16 meg simms for my girlfriend's Quadra 700. Anyone know of a source? R. -- Robert Arnold Managing Editor The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Creator and Eminence Grise Warbaby: The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. muahahahahaaaaa http://www.warbaby.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies.

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

ID some DEC parts...

by afritz＠iname.com

I'm not too familiar with the older DEC VAX hardware, but I've ended up with a MicroVAX 2000 and a few strange parts. H3104 -- 1 38-pin centronics on one side, 8 MMJs on the other (I'm guessing a terminal adapter of some sort) EE730 -- 1 DB9 and 1 DB15 on one side, 3 MMJs on the other. ( I don't have a clue what this is) BC16C -- a 25ft cable with a centronics on each end ( I'm guessing this connects the H3104 to the MV2k) What are these things? The middle item seems most puzzling to me. Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz(a)iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ----------

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Calculator displays

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>On Fri, 8 May 1998 Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk wrote: > >> The electronic one was interesting mainly for its display. It was >> fluorescent (greenish digits sealed in a long glass tube), but not >> 7-segment. Instead, there were (I think) nine segments, all of strange >> curly shapes, which made up digits much easier to read than the angular, >> blocky, 7-segment types. But I can no longer remember how these were >> arranged, nor even any details like the manufacturer of the calculator. >> >> Does anyone know of machines with such displays? > >Somebody was describing this same calculator to me yesterday. It was the >Sharp EL-8 and had a 9-segment display. > >> At what date were they made? > >Weren't these the first microprocessor-based calcs (4004) from around >1974? > The EL-8 was Sharp's original portable calculator from 1971 (in Japan in late 1970) and cost $345 back then (for your basic 4-function calculator!) The display is listed in my reference book as a flourescent -type tube display. I don't believe it used the 4004 chip - relatively few calculators actually did use the 4004. --Larry

28 years, 1 month

5
4
0 0

Proposal: "Legacy" Open Products Partition

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>More seriously, we need something like 'This information is provided in >good faith, and is believed to be accurate. However, neither the original >manufacturer or <%group distributing it> can take any responsibility for >errors or omissions. Some of the procedures described in this documation >can be dangerous and should only be performed by suitably qualified >personnel' Yes, we should have "levels" of experience. So that a Level 1 job could be done with anyone that knows how to wield a screwdriver... (things such as adding RAM, a hard drive, or add-in card.), while a Level 5 should only be done with someone who's had lots of electronics experience. (Such as fixing a broken PCB or motherboard, the hard way). We could have tutorials to get a Level 1 to a Level 5, but it would still be their responsibility. >BTW, what _are_ the qualifications for computer repair? :-). My PERQ 1 >says 'Only qualified personnel should remove covers'. Nowhere does it >state what the qualifications are, so I assume I have them :-) Actually, I always thought that it was who ever could pay them enough money to become a "solution provider." Seriously, we should have the Levels as an internal rating system. I haven't seen such a system, but has one like this ever been used? (It's better to use a pre-existing system then to develop a new one, especially if the old one does what you want.) >-tony Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

HP Integral Re: the new Apple iMac

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote: > Not exactly, it has a built-in floppy drive that you can boot from, or > you can use an external drive on the HP-IB. >BUT< they also had an > optional ROM that contained an entire HP-UX system. HP called it a > software engineering ROM. From what i've been told they're extremely rare. > HP also made another ROM that contained a complete HP Technical BASIC in it. It doesn't boot from any kind of disks, as near as I can tell -- just auto-mounts them and hooks them into the RAM-resident filesystem. And it doesn't buffer writes, so it's safe to dismount stiffies with the eject button. And having looked at the HP-UX 5.x manuals, "entire HP-UX system" means "that subset supported on the IPC". It's pretty cut-down but usable in a single-user stand-alone non-networked (not even UUCP) PC sort of way. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Floppiless (was: the new Apple iMac)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I kinda have to agree. My laptop has had a dead floppy drive for some ti <now; probably over 2 years. The only time I really miss it is a) when I <want to move data/pgms to a machine/person not "connected" or b) when I A handy way around that is to use intersvr and interlnk provided with dos 6.x. Those combined with a laplink serial or parallel cable can allow you to annex another systems drives for copies or installs. Using the parallel cable is faster. It's documented in the MSdos useres guide. I currently have a headless 386sx/25 with a few small hard disks, and two non 3.5" floppies and a CDrom that via parallel cable and the interlnk software serves and a sort of portable disk/cdrom/floppy to all my dos boxen. It's real handy for systems that only have a floppy or tiny hard disk. It saves having to have a network or anything more than a bootable disk with the programs on it (they are small!). Once running all of the disks on the server end are available as if they were connected locally. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

HP Integral Re: the new Apple iMac

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 01:35 PM 5/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 8 May 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > >> I learned from a friend who picked it up (for $3.10) at the swapmeet that >> HP made a lunchbox that had HP-UX all in ROM. No drives in the box. > >The Integral PC! Tell him I'll give him $10 for it :-) It is 68K-based >and has a small subset of HP-UX in ROM, but it really wants to boot from a >disk hanging off its HPIB bus. Not exactly, it has a built-in floppy drive that you can boot from, or you can use an external drive on the HP-IB. >BUT< they also had an optional ROM that contained an entire HP-UX system. HP called it a software engineering ROM. From what i've been told they're extremely rare. HP also made another ROM that contained a complete HP Technical BASIC in it. I just picked up my third IPC. One of mine has the Technical Basic Rom, one has the HP-UX ROM but the last one has both! :-) Joe

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 8, 22:28, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > John Ruschmeyer wrote: > > I presume the system, like the Performas et al., will come with a > > bootable > > CD which can be used to restore the system to "factory" condition. > > And there went everything that was put on the disk after it left > the factory. Not necessarily, if it's done "right". Sun sparcstations and SGI workstations come with the O/S on bootable CD, and re-installing doesn't imply deleting all the other stuff that was added since the first factory install. The O/S and support software/datafiles can be added/replaced in modular fashion. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Floppiless (was: the new Apple iMac)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:31 PM 5/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Actually, if I were to design a computer, I would consider not >> including a floppy drive, or at least making it so that it doesn't > >I totally agree. Any more, floppy disk drives are more a PITA than they >are useful. Creation is no longer the focus of home computing---the >browser took care of that issue. This means having removable, writeable >media is less of a priority. In the corporate setting, where computers are >still used primarily for creation and dissemination, you have LANs to >alleviate the need for such media. > >The floppy plays little role in modern computing. I kinda have to agree. My laptop has had a dead floppy drive for some time now; probably over 2 years. The only time I really miss it is a) when I want to move data/pgms to a machine/person not "connected" or b) when I want to install (floppy-only) software. The first is handled by the net, the second by getting software on CD (or swapping my HD into an identical machine with a good floppy.) Nowadays, data and programs are both so big as to make floppies unusuable. (Can you imagine backing up 1GB to floppy? 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

a few new finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

just a few new museum items: 1. TRS-80 model 100 portable manual 2. Zenith laptop model ZFL-184-01 3. Kaypro 16 20meg 1-5 1/4 FD 4. TI lowprofile KB 5. Corona model PC-21 6. Silicon Compilers D-Scan Graphic display model GR- 1104C missing kb 7. 2 Toshiba ext cd-roms 8. Sun shoebox 2 FD drives model SUNIPC-FPY2 one marked AT Compat the other PC compat 9. Beneath Apple ProDos by Don Worth and Pieter Lechner 10. 2 tech manuals for NeXT 1988 draft 11. Mac Performa 400 12. NeXT cube case 13. Apple Newton model 1000 with video tape and manuals 14. Sony ext scsi cdrom model CDU7205 15 8 ea Ti 99 game cartridges 16. Mac LCII needs HD 17. Many other non classic items waiting for their time

28 years, 1 month

4
3
0 0

Help with AE

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I looking for the address , web site, phone number or any info to locate a company called AE or Applied Engineering, or AE Research Corp. I need some parts from them and manuals. Thanks in advance John

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

newbie question. digest?

by everly＠interpac.net

is there any way to get this list in digest form? also hello to sam ismail and uncle roger :-). thanks, Loren.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Calculator displays

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Some years ago, when I was secondary school (grade|high school), someone donated two calculators which sat on a side table in the school computer room. One was a nice but not that rare wind-the-handle Facit. The other was more modern and electronic. The electronic one was interesting mainly for its display. It was fluorescent (greenish digits sealed in a long glass tube), but not 7-segment. Instead, there were (I think) nine segments, all of strange curly shapes, which made up digits much easier to read than the angular, blocky, 7-segment types. But I can no longer remember how these were arranged, nor even any details like the manufacturer of the calculator. Does anyone know of machines with such displays? At what date were they made? Did anyone ever do an LCD version of these, and if not, why not? And finally, what exactly were the segments and how did they fit together? I've tried to reconstruct the arrangement, but try as I might, I can't do it in fewer than twelve segments. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

6
6
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<But I remember one computer from the early 80's (don't remember the name) <where the floppy was the computer -- a small SBC mounted on top of the <floppy, and that's all there was. AmproLB a complete z80, 64k, 2serial, printer port and SCSI on a board the size of a 5.25" floppy. I have one. I also have a SB180 that is faster with 4x the ram on a card half the size. Neither stepped around the problem by putting all of the base software on rom. The EPSON PX-8 did. I also did it for a s100 system years before that. With EPROMS, EEProms and Flash ram as dense as they are a 1.44mb floppy seems a lot of work. Allison

28 years, 1 month

4
4
0 0

Panasonic Senior Partner

by dastar＠wco.com

Well, I scored a Panasonic Senior Partner (IBM-compatible luggable) with a 20meg HD. No matter what the product, I always like what Panasonic manufactures. The design and (physical) user interface of stuff they make just works for me. Anyway, this one came complete with Rogue, Nethack and Mahjong installed. I just enjoyed a splendid game of Rogue which I haven't played in ages (made it to Level 8, Warrior with about 2500 gold). It also had some C code, some unix utils in C:\BIN and a file pertaining to Apollo workstations. Seems this machine used to be owned by a Unix hacker for sure. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/03/98]

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by peacock＠simconv.com

If this new Mac has no removeable media, what happens when the hard drive breaks? How do you re-install the OS? Off the net? Catch-22, OS isn't running, no TCP/IP stack. Off the USB? OK, then the boot ROM supports bootable media from the USB? I'm impressed, even PCs don't support that. And the removeable media of choice for the USB is? No wait, let me guess, a scanner...you load the OS by scanning in bar codes which contain the OS binaries. That would be, oh, about 100K pages to scan in? Or you just send the whole thing back to Apple, and if they have spares, and they are still in business, they send you back a nice new pre-installed disk, sans all the software and setup you had on it. Then you restore off the net, but uh oh, all you have is a 28.8Kb connection, and 400MB of backup. Good plan, system administrators will love this machine. No doubt corporate types will beat down Apple's door to buy it. Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

4
3
0 0

Support for obsolete products

by jfoust＠threedee.com

John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)exit109.com> wrote: >One thing to remember here is that your logic is based on the premise >that the information still exists. Yes, of course. I wouldn't begin a quest of begging until I was sure the item existed. No Holy Grail searches for me. I think there are several categories of "lost": 1) it's somewhere in the vaults but we can't find it, 2) it's in the vaults but no I'm too busy to get it, 3) I can't get permission to get it out, 4) I've got it but I don't want to give it to you, 5) I can't give it you, 6) We'd have to pay a lawyer to say we can give it to you, etc. down through N) the company says they don't have it but an engineer we found on the net managed to save a copy. I'm more concerned about saving what we can, and getting official permission to do so, and being able to reproduce it in a more accessible fashion than it exists now. I can't do anything about things that don't exist. Tony Duell wrote: >Exactly. One problem that PERQ-fanatics have found is just who (out of >PERQ Logic Systems, Accent Systems, ICL, Varityper, etc) own what? And perhaps this can help the argument. If a company has completely lost or disregarded an asset that we can point out that they rightfully own, perhaps they'll be more friendly if we ask to take care of it for them. Buy-outs and acquisitions tend to prune away less valuable (but no less *interesting*) technologies. My Quest involves telling Lockheed-Martin that they own the Terak. Wish me luck. :-) Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> wrote: >"Inventory" tax means that for as long as you hold the merchandise, >you will continue to be taxed every bloody year unless you bite the >bullet and throw the stuff away. In my understanding of accounting, this "tax" doesn't exist. I think the previous writer doesn't understand why the bean counters want to get rid of inventory. There are certainly exceptions that rile the blood of small- and large-L libertarians, but in my experience in US small business, you are only taxed once. A B.C. wants to reduce inventory for other reasons - it's money tied up in junk that's not selling, not gaining interest, and isn't growing in value. When it comes time to dumpster it, it becomes a write-off loss and its original cost is probably taken as a deduction of some kind, which alone makes it valuable to the bottom line. So, the original poster's notion is correct - the complications of taxation tends to make companies dump old stuff. It's like property tax - it forces people to find a way for the land to generate at least that much cash, which discourages people from buying land and simply preserving it as-is. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Zenith Z90

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Well I'll be darned! I read those post wondering what the diference was between a Z90 and a Zenith Z89 (Which is what I thought is what I had) just to finally discover that I don't have a Z89 at all. Better change that entry in the web site. Now I'm going to have to check all my machines and make sure I have all the model numbers right :) . Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >Z90). The Z90 was a Zenith Data Systems-branded machine which is Heath >factory-built. It had a bit different setup than the factory-built or kit >versions bought from Heath (the H-89). Don't quite know what those >differences were though, but the H-89 and Z-90 were still very similar.

28 years, 1 month

3
5
0 0

Calculator displays

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>On Fri, 8 May 1998, Larry Groebe wrote: > >> The EL-8 was Sharp's original portable calculator from 1971 (in Japan in >> late 1970) and cost $345 back then (for your basic 4-function >> calculator!) The display is listed in my reference book as a flourescent >> -type tube display. > >That sounds right. The guy I talked to mentioned that it was IC-based, >not micro-based. > >> I don't believe it used the 4004 chip - relatively few calculators >> actually did use the 4004. > >I think it was a deal between Busicom and Intel for a calculator chip that >produced the 4004 and started the microprocessor revolution, right? > >-- Doug True- although IIRC Busicom didn't actually use the 4004 as things worked out. There's a nice webpage devoted to the 4004 at: http://home1.gte.net/ccourson/4004.htm --Larry

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Support for obsolete products

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:14 PM 5/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >Some of the folks at Motorola are also good about stuff like this. Many >times I have needed data sheets for some of their more obscure, long >obsolete chips, and they came thru with free photocopies from some ancient >databooks. I dunno how efficient it would be, but perhaps interested parties could volunteer to format and html-ize old databooks, etc. for companies. They wouldn't have to do any effort (except provide the source documents) but then they could post them on their web site and make them available to anyone. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Vigilance and Vacuum Tubes (fwd)

by william＠ans.net

Found on another list... <snip> A talk on the SAGE System (1956-63) will be given at Moffett Field on Tuesday evening May 19, 5:30-7 PM. SAGE was Semi-Automatic Ground Environment, embodied as 22 monster computers (250 tons) each with 49,000 vacuum tubes consuming 3 megawatts of power. Parts of the last SAGE system, decommissioned in 1982, will be behind the speakers. For details, see www.computerhistory.org/sage. <snip> William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Calculator displays

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> The electronic one was interesting mainly for its display. It was <> fluorescent (greenish digits sealed in a long glass tube), but not <> 7-segment. Instead, there were (I think) nine segments, all of strange <> curly shapes, which made up digits much easier to read than the angular <> blocky, 7-segment types. But I can no longer remember how these were <> arranged, nor even any details like the manufacturer of the calculator < <These are called "Nixie Tubes". But don't ask me much more about it. I <just know what they're called. I have at least one nixie-tube calculato Not Nixie tubes as they were exactly 12 "segments" 0-9 and a decimal point on either side. Their color was neon orange from the gas use to fill them. They were glow discharge rather than fluoresent typically bluish green. VF diplays were also available in red, yellow, blue, green and white or combinations. Both technologies are from the "magic eye" tubes and neon lamps of 30years+ prior. The biggest difference between nixie from a calculator standpoint was nixies needed about a 60-80 volt swing to ignite/quench at low current where VF displays were typically 10-30v. I have a 40x2x(7x5) dot matrix character display bottle (VF) and several 7 segment claculator displays also VF in raw form. Nixies, my Yasu 355D frequency counter uses them (purchased new in 1974!) still works. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

No wait... I got another tape to boot...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I found a 3rd tape that boots OK. Seems the first 2 that I thought were good might not be! Sorry for being a pest. -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

OOps, I halt a 10, not 20/

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

-------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

RSTS isn't done with me yet...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

WHen trying to boot MS0:, from INIT 8.0-07, it halts at 20. I boot 8.0 off the DU0:, say BO MS0:, the tape shuffles back and forth awhile, and it stops at 20. What's that mean? -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Calculator displays

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Nixies are also not a generic term; it's trademarked by, I believe, <Honeywell. When other manufacturers made similar displays (sometimes <incadescent, even) they were called "Numerons", "Numatrons", "Decatrons" <and various other terms. Quite often these displays were more dissimila <than similar, to tell you the truth (there were probably patent issues <involved in addition to trademark issues.) Yes patent issues and different drive methods. The decatron or Numatrons I forget which had 10 pins around the permimiter that would glow ehn active and there was a steering electrode to force a "shift up" or "shift down". They took advantage of the hysterisys of Neon gas displays (turns on at higher voltages than turn off. There was also a dot matrix display by burroughs "self scan" I have a 32 char version. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Classic prices at eBay...

by mor＠crl.com

Man things over on eBay are getting hairy. A Sol-20 and IMSAI 8080 recently went for over $600 ea. And the Sol-20 may not have sold because the seller's "reserve price" was not even met... Currently there is a MITS Altair 680 at $1,825 and an Apple Lisa at $500, both with over 2 days to go until the deadline. Oh well, it's back to the old thrift and scrounge circuit for me. -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/

28 years, 1 month

5
5
0 0

TS04 bootstrap?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Does anyone have the TS04 bootstrap? -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Another good week for museum

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well it's be a good week but a little costly. Here's a short list; 1. The Sound Source by Disney lets have sound without a sound card hooks to printer port. 2. My second Mac Portable with case and manual, it works too! 3. Apple flat bed scanner model A9M0337 4. Zeos 386sx/20 powers up fine 5. 3M Whisper Writer 1000 teleprinter model 1482A 6. Hickok model 3301 digital multimeter 7. Heathkit utility voltmeter model 1M-17 042 8. Mac IIcx case with motherboard only had 8 1 meg simms in it (was free) 9. Fluke 901A Micro-system troubleshooter with manuals, service guides, newsletter and the following test PODs Fluke Z80/aa, Fluke 8085, Fluke 68000, Fluke 9900, Fluke 6800, Fluke 6809/6809E,Fluke 8086, Fluke 8080 10. HP colorpro model 74445A has power brick, manuals, color pins 11. Several packs of Fluke Instrument Accessory parts 12. Dr. Dobb's Essential Hypertalk Handbook 13. Computer Device miniterm 14. Monroe Beta 326 Scientist with manual and case, tape unit with power supply 15. Commodore PC-10III with KB and mouse 16. Tandy 1000 17 Commodore 128D 18. AGI 1700C 386sx/16 not tested yet 19. NEC multisync II not tested yet 20. Tandy 1000TL/3 model 25-1603 21. Tandy 1000HX manual 22. IBM PS/2 model 60 23. PB Legend I model PB686 24. TI99/4A in box 25. Commodore mouse 1351 26. Tandy RGB monitor CM-5 Well that's the short list there were alot more items and books but that's for anohter day. Keep Computing John

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Support for obsolete products

by jfoust＠threedee.com

"Jeff Kaneko" <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com> >You know, this idea makes sense. But have a feeling that most >product managers (the guys most in the position to make these >decisions) are so far removed from the product, so intimidated by >the almighty 'Company Policy (tm)', (not to mention hair being way, >way too pointy) that even this will not get consideration. Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: >Well, I'm sure we all think that would be a Good Thing, but just try >convincing companies of that. OK, help me brainstorm arguments to persuade companies to release obsolete information. Certainly pointy-haired managers (does the cartoon "Dilbert" cross the pond?) will opt for the simple safe solution of "don't let anything out of the office, or out of our control". And there's the question of money to be made. As soon as someone seems interested in old technology, they'll believe there's still some money to be made. Then there's the question of the cost and trouble of drafting or approving any legal document to make the transaction official. Why spend money on giving away products? - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

8
9
0 0

Low-end Unix (was: TI99: Anyone reading this with a TI-99/4A?)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:12 PM 5/3/98 -0400, you wrote: ><To my knowledge no flavor of unix runs on anything less than a 32-bit ><processor. There's a unix-workalike for the C-64/128, but that's not > >Your knowledge is limited. Unix was started and lived for years on >PDP-11s (a 16 bit machine) in the form of V5, V6, V7 and 2.9BSD and >2.11BSD. I may add it was on other machines like the Interdatas. I have heard tell (from a very reliable source) of a version of Unix written for the Radio Shack Model 100 (8085, 32K max). (And no, it's not available, and yes, he's tried to get the company that did it to release it.) I thought someone had said that CP/M was based on Unix? Or was that one of the PDP opsys? >I find the idea of not less than 32bits, 200mhz cpus and large memory >being a must to be patently retrorevisionist to the history of what was >done before those things were available. Yep. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

4
3
0 0

TRS80 manual

by RTSJackson＠aol.com

I am trying to locate a manual for a TRS 80 model 100 or 102. Can you help? A photo-copy will do nicely. Thank you for your help. I'm located in Jackson, Mississippi. Steven Froehlich

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Fwd: 75 lbs of DEC Ultrix manual for free

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Found on comp.sys.dec - if interested please reply to the originator - webdolphin(a)my-dejanews.com This amounts to around 20-25 three ring binders, and is good information on Unix operations, processes, and commands even if you don't have Ultrix. Mike ------------------------------------------------------ Subject: 75 lbs of DEC Ultrix manual for free From: webdolphin(a)my-dejanews.com Date: Thu, May 7, 1998 15:59 EDT Message-id: <6it0a3$gki$1(a)nnrp1.dejanews.com> Hi all, Anyone interested in a complete set of Digital Ultrix manuals dating from 1990/1991? I am assuming they are complete, given a lot of them are still shrinkwrapped. Email me with your physical address with a Fedex or UPS account number if you want the stuff. Otherwise the box is going into the dumpster come next Thursday. Allister

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, if I were to design a computer, I would consider not <including a floppy drive, or at least making it so that it doesn't <depend on it. I have six VAX computers and NONE have floppies. Why, becuase even 1.44mb floppies make sense in that environment. Since they have tapes and are networked together floppy is of little use. With the size of applications and all a writeable CDrom or a ZIP disk makes more sense than floppy. Further, I'm working on a z280 design and am seriously considering no floppy. Why? Eats power and space for intermittent use at best. I'd rather use a utility I wrote years ago to transfer files via serial port (back when no two machines had the same format or size floppy). I even intend to put the whole OS and then some in EEprom as it's cheaper and faster that floppy or hard disk. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by dastar＠wco.com

Anyone see the new Apple iMac unveiled today? I like it. Instant classic. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/03/98]

28 years, 1 month

5
6
0 0

(Same Apple Here?) Re: the new Apple iMac

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. It just occured to me: Apple is known (with the ][) to have pioneered low cost floppy drives. They're the ones that made it a good alternitive to tape. But still, I agree, floppies arn't really an important part today, other than a remembrance of the past. (Has anyone seen those "Download warehouses" wherer you download software?) Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 3:34 AM Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac >I don't know if I'd characterize the Sony 400K as "totally blameless", since >the floppy drives in all of my other old systems (both 5.25" and 3.5") have >about a 5% dead-on-acquire rate, while the Mac 128s I find are maybe 75% in >the dead floppy department. The 800K drives were much more reliable. The >big 400K chassis has lots of lubricant on it which after 10 years or so >turns into a rubber cement consistency and gums up the works. There's >nothing to do but to hit the whole thing with TV Tuner cleaner and re-lube >it. Pain in the butt, if you ask me. > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kip Crosby [mailto:engine@chac.org] >Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 4:47 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac > > >At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >>One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) > >Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which >worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been >the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring >the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of >evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with. > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California >

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> <Now contrast this with an analog filter, which performs a singular <function based on the laws of physics. No instructions, no codes, no <processing unit. Therein lies the distinction. The explanations of physics is based on the core of mathmatics. That's one way to look at it. Consider it from the perspective of a mathmatics view. Signal goes in FNC(x) is performed on it and signal comes out. FNC(x) can be performed using a DSP or analog circuits >from the outside of the black box dos it make much difference how? Computing is a process of calculation. Analogue functions perform calculation vastly different than the digital forms it does not negate the calculation performed. If this wasn't true digial signal processing would not be possible. I still have the Popular Electronics article that simulates the bounce of a ball in analogue form using opamps while displaying it graphically on a scope. Yes the ball would even flatten at the bottom of the bounce. Years later I would write a program to do the same, the mathmatics were unchanged as where the physics. The analogue form was faster at showing how small changes had an effect, it could be real time. The digital form allowed me to express those as floatingpoint numbers. Even on a PDP11 at the time, it would never approach real time. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I don't know if I'd characterize the Sony 400K as "totally blameless", since the floppy drives in all of my other old systems (both 5.25" and 3.5") have about a 5% dead-on-acquire rate, while the Mac 128s I find are maybe 75% in the dead floppy department. The 800K drives were much more reliable. The big 400K chassis has lots of lubricant on it which after 10 years or so turns into a rubber cement consistency and gums up the works. There's nothing to do but to hit the whole thing with TV Tuner cleaner and re-lube it. Pain in the butt, if you ask me. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Kip Crosby [mailto:engine@chac.org] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 4:47 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

the new Apple iMac (last words?)

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>If this new Mac has no removeable media, what happens when the hard >drive breaks? How do you re-install the OS? No doubt you'll re-install the OS from the built-in CD-ROM drive, as all Apple machines already do now. > >Good plan, system administrators will love this machine. No doubt >corporate types will beat down Apple's door to buy it. Quite clearly, this machine is not designed as a Corporate machine. One look at the physical design alone is enough to establish that this is for home use. Apple continues to sell quite traditionally designed machines for THAT market segment. ---- And now that we've all hashed and re-hashed the merits of this day-old computer, can we return to discussing our 10-year old classics? Let's all agree to meet and re-evaluate the iMac in 2008.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Non electronic digital _computers_ are a lot rarer. If we decide that a <computer has to have a sequence of operations and some kind of <conditional branching, I can't think of any at the moment. Mechanical <sequencers, based normally on camshafts are common, of course. You kidding, air logic has been around for years and frequently used in atmospheres or other considerations that would prohibit using electronic or electically power controls. The basic elements such as switchs valves and oneshots all exist and can be combined into digital functions. I know I demonstrated a system where several inputs (switches) had to be true before a sequenced action using two bistable elements and a oneshot. It's not fast but fun to watch! <Are you thinking of 'Digital circuits are built from analogue parts' ? Not a valid concept. both OR and AND gates can be done using totally non amplifying devices (diodes). It was Vonda that postulated that digital was analogue with a precision of two states, true and false. The realm of analogue is one of infinite precision but possibly of limited accuracy. The digital realm is one of limited precision and absolute accuracy. <As a practical point for this list, if just about all (analogue) circuits <are analogue computers, then they are on-topic here :-). No I don't As a final thought, analogue circuits often perform complex functions. This very aspect and the realization that precision and accuracy are very differnt commodities are why some fuction are easy to do using an analogue approach and can be very difficult to do digitally. Allison

28 years, 1 month

3
6
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I can imagine a floppy disk stealing his college thesis. Pretty likely, actually. AFAIK, though, NO NeXT has shipped with floppies, but rather with MOs, which are pretty annoying because of the many formats and price per disk. Actually, if I were to design a computer, I would consider not including a floppy drive, or at least making it so that it doesn't depend on it. Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges >personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his sister? >Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own? > >Whatever grievous harm a floppy drive has done to him in the past, >it must have been quite bad for him to hold a grudge this long. > >> Tom > >-Seth > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by engine＠chac.org

At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by peacock＠simconv.com

Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges >personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his sister? >Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own? One word....Twiggy Anyone who ever used a twiggy floppy drive would swear off floppies forever. Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

terminal keyboards needed

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Well I found agood home for the otherwise in my way terminals and the new owner is in need of a keyboard for the VT 100 and the VT 220. A few people wrote me in the past but I'm not sure who it was but if you email me direct I can relay your message to this person in New Hamster and he can contact you about them. He is getting working units for the cost of shipping and I imagine he has some collection intent for them -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges >personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his sister? >Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own? > >Whatever grievous harm a floppy drive has done to him in the past, >it must have been quite bad for him to hold a grudge this long. One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy) Kai

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Whilt I sill have use of this camera, any requests?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I finished posting those pictures. http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Does anyone want a picture of anything special in there? -------

28 years, 1 month

2
2
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| -----Original Message----- | From: David Wollmann [mailto:dwollmann@ibmhelp.com] | Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 1:40 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: the new Apple iMac | | is/will there be a USB Zip drive? Nope. Kind of off the classic subject but... USB is for sound, keyboards, pointing devices, joysticks, single-user printers, and low-bandwidth video such as webcam/lowres videoconferencing/frame capture. USB is a low-speed bus that is already overwhelmed with all of these duties without dropping a very high bandwidth storage device on there as well. The last thing you want is for your mouse to get choppy when you print, for example. The "high speed" version of USB is only 1.5MBps and Dolby Digital AC-3 DVD audio can take half of that alone. We are strongly evangelizing against anyone doing fast storage devices for USB. IEEE1394/Firewire is the connection of choice for full motion video/editing, storage devices, workgroup printers, etc. Kai

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Proposal: "Legacy" Open Products Partition

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK.. this is very quick, but basically, I want to outline the following points for making a way for old, no longer profitable hardware/software to make it available: Reasons To Change 1) Public relations. People who think that you're giving away info on products that your company made will have a profound effect on anyone involved. 2) No longer responsible for the information. You don't have to archive old data anymore, meaning that you can make information lean and clean. Support for old products can come from those who now hold the information. 3) Recieve credit for work. You (the company giving information) will get credit for your work, meaning that if someone thinks that Product A Rev. 1.x has innovation, then Product B 8.x will, too. Also, it means that you significantly increase your user base without costly advertising/marketing campaigns. Now, here's what I propose needs to happen to get this done: 1) Liscense agreement. This would be similiar to the GPL (in the fact that it's free, but does not bar anyone from profiting by information.) 2) Central orginazation. Something like GNU, but less proffesional. It would contain all archives collected, as well as user-made enhancements, notes or other docs. (For example: Getting a ST 251 to work under Linux/Windows) Then for support, tech. support reps. could reffer ceretain products to the orginiaztion and not waste any more time. This would prove to save companies time and money, especially if it saves training. 3) Petition would need to be made of lots of people (Founding members) willing to support this idea, weather through time, money, or just a name giving support. For the liscense agreement, we need to be as flexible as possible to get as much information as possible. So we'd have levels, where any information could be used for commercial purposes (building new drives based on information), where it could be used for referance (for instance fixing a drive), or for "small" commercial purposes. (For example, Fredrick's XT Part Shop could build new Seagate MFM drives/re-sell modified copies of PC-DOS 1.x, whereas Maxtor couldn't.) So, this is just a basic list, and I want it to get improved, then when we're sure we know what we want, finilize it, legalize it, put it on the web, and propose to hardware/software manufactuers. Just my 0.02 (with interests, no doubt.) Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>Anyone see the new Apple iMac unveiled today? I like it. Instant >classic. Has me excited. Beautiful design, fast G3 processor, really cheap...But does it have a SCSI port? A floppy drive? Those are two things I can't make do without. Tom

28 years, 1 month

4
3
0 0

Data General's AOS operating system and its MP/OS operating syste m

by jconklin＠leydig.com

I am searching for a source of manuals and any related documentation for Data General's Advanced Operating System (AOS) and for its MP/OS operating system. The AOS ran on DGs Eclipse minicomputer. The MP/OS ran on DGs microprocessor-based MicoNova. Someone suggested you may be able to help. Can you? John Conklin (312) 616-5600

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Zenith Z90

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2150 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980505/f571bb36/at…

28 years, 1 month

4
8
0 0

Prototype Apple //c found

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > Was "TERI" the codename for the Apple //c? Moby. At least that's what I get from this book I got turned onto: _AppleDesign: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group_, by Paul Kunkel, photos by Rick English, ISBN 1-888001-25-9, published by Graphis, 1997. Mini-review: |<00|_ pictures of computers and concept models and other things. Emphasis is on industrial design, not technology. The text is marred by typos and an overall feeling that the author thinks Apple and those responsible are just too cool for words. Maybe they are. Or maybe it's just that I've had enough of dealing with PC-contemptibles with funny disk-drive rails and the like that I'm not real tolerant of k00l kasewerk any more. They sure are pretty pictures, though.... -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Support for obsolete products

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I would also recommend that if you come across a company that helps with old systems like the story about the tape drive, be sure to let the company know their help is appreciated. hopefully that will still give them an incentive to continue to offer help. david

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<altering the computer (machine) is that there is a definite distinction <between the circuitry to drive the logic unit (CPU) and the circuitry <which defines the stored program (code). So while a masked ROM cannot b <altered, you can swap out the ROM with a new ROM with a completely <different set of instructions, while the rest of the circuitry which <executes the code remains unmodified. Apply that to the 8048 or other single chip mcu. <digital computers and not analogue. I think the murky area being argued <here is strictly pertaining to analog computers since it is indeed a <series of filters and amplifiers combined to manipulate analog signals. <digital computer is something quite different, and I think quite easy to <define. Thats the point. Many exceedingly simple looking analogue systems perform what would take a fairly complex digital system to simulate.

28 years, 1 month

4
5
0 0

[Again!] New toy! Digital camera! Wanna see my pile?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Second try, doesn't look like the first one made it through. School bought a digital camera, and I get to play with it... I'll be posting pictures of my 11/44 Pile (GALAXIA) at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Go take a look! -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Microsoft BASIC 80 non-disclosure agreement

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:14 PM 5/5/98 +0100, you wrote: >When I call Tech Support I will have made some attempts to check the >obvious, gather evidence, and solve the problem. In particular : > >I'll have checked the 'bleeding obvious' - that it's plugged in, that I >am running the program I think I am running, etc Ah, but you are (especially for mainstream stuff) reasonably rare. The average I-bought-my-computer-at-circuit-city-and-got-a-free-hair-dryer idiot has done none of that. Most likely, he's tripped over the power cord and unplugged it, or tried to install a pirated game that had a virus and his hd is toast or... Which does, I agree, present a problem for those of us who *do* know what we're doing. There's nothing I hate more than having some nitwit read the manual to me. (Unless, of course, I'm calling because I don't have the manual.) Dunno if there's a solution. I try to find a knowledgeable support person for software/hardware I use a lot and make sure they know who I am and that I'm not a git. >I'll be sitting in front of my machine with a 'scope, logic analyser, >software debugger, etc at the ready "you're out there, man, like f***ing pluto." 8^) >IBM are better than most, at least for providing parts/manuals. They may >claim that a machine never existed (IBM UK told be there was 'no such >thing as a PC-jr'), but they can often find all sorts of things given a >part number or forms number. IBM does seem to be pretty good. I requested info about a couple of "PC-Radio's" I picked up, and got back a lot of info (albeit badly formatted. 8^) >Sending in bug reports (and even better, fixes) for ancient products is >great fun :-). I would think calling would be better still. 8^) >> And DON'T COPY ANY SOFTWARE. I don't even care if it was made by a >> criminal, it gives you no right to do the same. Yep. Fastest way to put a company out of business is to steal their product. Hmmm... Anyone want a copy of Microsoft Office? 8^) (JUST KIDDING!!!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

New toy! Digital camera! Let's take pictures of my pile...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

School bought a digital camera, and I get to play with it! I'll be posting pictures at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav until about 2:35 PM. (When school's out.) Go ahead and take a look! -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

What's an Emulex TC12?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Just dug one out of the board pile. What is it? Is it a 9-track controller? (Please, oh please...) -------

28 years, 1 month

2
4
0 0

Do we belong on list?

by nhdirect＠tiac.net

Should our service be on your list? I have included a write up that we publish to selected newsgroups. Would our service be of interest to your members. David nhdirect(a)tiac.net New Hampshire Computer Flea Market ?Bring unwanted computer items to sell, and/or buy at bargain prices? Someone is looking for the computer hardware and software that you no longer use. Sell those items at the Computer Flea Market on Sunday May 10 from 9 AM to 2 PM, at Daniels Hall, Rt 4, Nottingham, NH. This is an excellent opportunity to turn your unwanted computer hardware & software, MAC or PC, games, etc., into cash, or purchase at bargain prices. Also just come to swap ideas with other local computer users. Free admission to those folks coming to look and possibly buy, and $5.00 admission for those bringing items to sell. Join us at the flea market on the 2nd Sunday of every month. Food & drink are available. Dealers are also welcome ($20.00 table charge, electricity included). Dealers should reserve display space by e-mailing nhdirect(a)tiac.net or calling 603 942-8525. Visit the Computer Flea Market web page at: http://www.tiac.net/users/nhdirect/flea.html Sponsored by S&D Associates

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

What's an Emulex TC12?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 19:07, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Subject: Re: What's an Emulex TC12? And I sent an unsigned repy. Normal sig has now been restored :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Low-end Unix (was: TI99: Anyone reading this with a TI-99/4A?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I have heard tell (from a very reliable source) of a version of Unix <written for the Radio Shack Model 100 (8085, 32K max). (And no, it's no <available, and yes, he's tried to get the company that did it to release Call me skeptical, 8085 is far less code efficient that z80. <I thought someone had said that CP/M was based on Unix? Or was that on <of the PDP opsys? CP/M was based on OS/8 and RT-11, it is very un-unix. DEC Ultrix-11 and Ultrix-32 are both unix based on BSD versions. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

the new Apple iMac

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I disagree. Apple, at least to me, represents that innovation can live in today's computer industry, and that being different makes you ahead, not behind of the crowd. (And yes, I thought that BEFORE Apple's current marketing campaign.) Looks cool, but I want more information, and, as most people go, they'll need reasons to want a $1.3K over a $600-$800 PC. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 11:10 AM Subject: Re: the new Apple iMac >At 12:26 AM 07-05-98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >> >>Anyone see the new Apple iMac unveiled today? I like it. Instant >>classic. > >The best comment so far at work was that after its useful life it would be >much easier to convert into a fishbowl. Just turn upside down and fill :-) > >Does look cool, but I'd like to touch one before committing one way or the >other. In my scheme of things, MacOS is about fourth or fifth choice. > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au > Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 >1999 > La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Here's 2 morde boards to ID...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 19:25, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Anyway, what are the: > EMULEX SC03 It's a QBus controller for SMD drives. It will support two physical drives, making them emulate two (or more, if necessary) logical DEC drives. We need to know the suffix (SC03/A, SC03/B, SC03/C) as there are at least three versions, emulating different drives. I have an SC03 which emulates RM03s, but there's an MSCP version as well. I've got the manual for this one, too. > Dilog CQ2010 QBus communications controller of some sort. I don't know the details on this one, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

[Try 3!] New toy! Digital camera. Wanna see my pile?

by root＠linux.epchs.k12.il.us

Try #3, I can't seem to mail out from toad... School got a new digital camera, and I get to play with it. I've posted pictures of my 11/44 (GALAXIA) [My Pile] up at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Enjoy! Now, can I borrow this sucker for a weekend...

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Here's 2 morde boards to ID...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Wow, the lag is terrible! (FTping something...) Anyway, what are the: EMULEX SC03 Dilog CQ2010 -------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

What's an Emulex TC12?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 13:06, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Subject: What's an Emulex TC12? > Just dug one out of the board pile. > What is it? > Is it a 9-track controller? (Please, oh please...) I think so; I expect it's the Unibus equivalent of my QBus TC02. I've got the manual if you need to ask about it.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Microsoft BASIC 80 non-disclosure agreement

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Oh, I'll be gentle with them, and polite, at least to start with. But >when _I'm_ paying for the call (often at a premium rate), or even worse >am paying for so-called tech support, I expect a little more than a >person who treats me like somebody who can't even read. In other words I >expect _technical_ support on the product that they supplied me with. Exactly. I also expect if the technical support is not via phone (IE from e-mail, web based, etc.) to get a timely answer. With my old soundcard, it was 3 months, by which time I'd gotten so fed up I'd figured it out anyway. Now I use a real Sound Blaster AWE 64. I like the cool sound. >> Have you ever gotten a response? > >Other than the obvious 'we don't support that any more' or 'A bug in a 20 >year product, you must be mad to expect us to do anything about it', no, >not really. Well, yeah, but if you're lucky and get the right people... Or if you say that it had a "lifetime warranty." Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

3
3
0 0

Serendipity

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I was at the scrap yard yesterday, picking up some aluminum blocks to play with on my new CNC milling machine, and decided to take a stroll out where they occasionally dump old mainframe parts. It's just this huge mud lot about 2 blocks square, with big mounds of twisted metal, wire, cable, crushed cars, and all kinds of other junk, with a bunch of bits of electronics thrown in more or less at random. I wasn't in the mood for a lot of climbing, so I just poked around the edges. I found a board about 18" square sitting on top of a barrel. When I picked it up, it was *way* too heavy for the size. Flipped it over and saw another, smaller board screwed to the bottom. It was marked "DataRAM". I thought "Oh no - surely not. It can't be core memory! But it's so *heavy*! What is it?" I took it along. I also found an old controller module of some kind with an RCA 1802 and support chips on it; now maybe I can finally build a real Elf. Anyway, they sell everything by the pound, and the two pieces cost me about $2. Brought it home, removed all the screws around the edge, pulled off the smaller board, and guess what? Acres of core! Tiny little ones, too - I haven't seen that much core, but the other small piece I have has cores with a center hole about the size of a pencil lead. These were so small they looked like grains of sand, or salt. Had to use a 12x magnifier to see them clearly. By my count, there are about 100 per inch in both directions, and it's about 8"x10", with a few gaps here and there, so this gives... ummm... (square root of 7, carry the 9...) uh... something under 800k-bits or so? Does this sound right? Anyway, I was pretty pumped. I may go back and do some serious climbing and burrowing this weekend... -Bill Richman bill_r(a)inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

FW: PDP-11/73 in NJ available

by kyrrin＠jps.net

I have no clue what this guy considers a 'serious' offer. Maybe someone on the list can 'offer' to haul it away...? ;-) Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On 04 May 1998 01:49:25 GMT, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote: >>From: rmweiss(a)aol.com (RMWeiss) >>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 >>Subject: pdp11/73 for sale-fully functioning >>Lines: 6 >>Message-ID: <1998050401492500.VAA29644(a)ladder01.news.aol.com> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com >>X-Admin: news(a)aol.com >>Date: 04 May 1998 01:49:25 GMT >>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >> >>located in New Jersey, very recently retired system. stand alone case, 1meg >>mem,160 meg Fujitsu drive, tape backup, peripherals, etc. Please address any >>serious offers and questions to Ronny at RMWeiss(a)aol.com or call (800) 526-3192 >>M-F 9-5 EDT. >>Thanks for your interest. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

FW: FREE PDP-11/84's -- in Scotland!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Here's a twist. Anyone in or near Scotland care to take a stab at this rescue? Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Wed, 6 May 1998 22:34:19 +0100, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote: >>From: Ian A McDonald <iam(a)st-andrews.ac.uk> >>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 >>Subject: PDP-11/84's going free >>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:34:19 +0100 >>Organization: St. Andrews University >>Lines: 23 >>Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980506223042.10932A-100000@maths> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: maths.st-and.ac.uk >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >>NNTP-Posting-User: iam >>X-Sender: iam(a)st-andrews.ac.uk >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!st-and!maths!iam >> >>St. Andrews, Fife, Scotland >> >>2 off pdp-11/84 2mb >>Processors fine, >>disks dead, >> >>free to anyone who cares enough to save them from the skip. >>I know little about their internals, but we've been ordered to skip them. >>I'm hoping for a good home for them. >>Unfortunately, it's a buyer collect deal, but we're asking no money. >> >>-- >>Ian >> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Oh, God is playing marbles, >>With His Planets and his Stars, 1084 New Hall, >>Creating havoc through my life, St Andrews, >>With his influence on Mars ... Fife, >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

The PC's Soviet?

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 03:56 29/04/98 -0400, you wrote: >Believe it or not, I think there *was* a "Lemon" Apple clone. My father >and I still occasionally joke about it. And we didn't get it from BYTE. True! Here in Italy there was a manufacturer that called theyr Apple clones "LEMON". ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONES ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager(DTMF PHONES)=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key |4 help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

RSX-11 Disk Images anyone?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<be interested. Will they be SYSGEN-able? That's one thing I miss in <the RT-11 image that came with the emulator. But I'm not going to look <a gift horse in the mouth. Rt-11 does not require sysgening like RSX or RSTS So just the binaries of the standard monitors (SJ, FB, XM and BJ) and the standard drivers is all that's needed to use it effectively. RT-11 really only requires the disk used to boot to have the boot blocks installed (copy/boot) and it will run on all PDP11s and most all disks. Known disks supported in v5 were the all the RXnn drives regardless of controller (rx01/2/3/50/33) all the RD drives, RK drives, pro350(DW/DZ), TU58 tape(bootable and useable as system device) and most of the mag tapes. V5 includes a ramdisk called VM that can even be booted assuming you have plenty of ram. An 11/23 with 1meg ram running RT11FB will have plenty of space in VM (about 1900 blocks) for a useful system. I know as I run it on 11/03, 11/23, 11/73 using RL02, RD5x, RX50, RX33, rx02, TU58 and VM:. A useable system fits on any 256k(497 blocks) dual device (tu58 or RX01). A rx50(800blocks) system is fairly roomy. Any hard disk is fast and plenty of room even small 5meg(10,000 blocks) RD50s. The full V5 kit minus .mac files fits in about 4-5000 blocks. Removing the unused drivers and other misc files really cuts this down. A block is 512bytes. I didn't mention but RT-11 is NOT a memory hog and even a PDP-11 with 16kw can run a useful system. Being a low fat OS it is also very fast permitting even slow PDP-11 processors a chance to look good. It's basic commands look just like PC dos. An emulated V4 system should be useable to do PDP-11 program development and run standard monitors. the minimum hardware needed is any PDP11 (even the falcon card!) 16kw ram, mass storage (floppy or hard disk) and at least one DL serial line (console). The boot an even be toggled by hand. Allison

28 years, 1 month

6
9
0 0

Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Allison quoted me as having written: > <What's that got to do with it? Diodes are analogue parts - the output > <(current) is a continuous function of the input (voltage), not a > <discrete one (to me the difference between an analogue and a digital > > Yes, but they don't (generally) amplify. I think you may be confusing my remark with Tony's. I remarked that "all circuits are amplifiers" meaning that the general circuit can be modelled as taking an input, applying some sort of gain, and producing an output. A gross oversimplification, but I wasn't talking about the active/passive issue (gain>1 => active, etc.) Tony made a slightly different remark, "Digital circuits are built with analogue parts". Unlike mine, this is not an oversimplification, it is absolutely true. And has nothing to do with amplifiers. You can build a digital circuit element with diodes; they are analogue parts, and they don't amplify. Clear now? > <component). In fact, Allison, you were saying only a few days ago that > <you don't need any amplification to make an analogue _computer_ (with > <which I agree - although some of your examples I wouldn't call > <computers). > > I still hold that amplification is a factor in the equation that an analog > function may contain but it is not required. I never (intensionally) disputed this! > This is an analogue function, take a shot at the equation it solves. I couldn't quite read your diagram, I'm afraid. Was it series capacitor followed by shunt diode? Looks like it refers the input to the lowest value it (the input) ever takes, rather than to ground or a fixed reference. > <For non-electronic digital computers, where do Facit mechanical > <calculators lie? I have one (which is driven by an electric motor but > > Computers, mechanical, fixed program. Roughly what I thought. I wasn't sure whether people would class it as a computer, but I think it is no less of one than a 4-function pocket calculator. [pneumatics] > You've not seen a modern production line that uses air logic. I've worked No. I've seen some of the components in catalogues, though, and wondered if they'd be of use in organ building, though! > on one that was used to produce pharaceuticals that were in flamable bases > (ethanol). There was some fairly complex logic in that system. Working Sounds fun! > with it is like designing with relays. I can imagine. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

RSTS/E v8.0-07 filesystem limitations.

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Is there a limit to how big a RSTS filesystem can be? I'm told 8.0-07 doesn't support RA92s. But the fact that INIT knows what it is tells me otherwise. All I have to do is find the CMP instruction stopping me from formatting this disk and off we go. The question is, is the RSTS filesystem used in 8.0-07 able to handle a drive this size? Is there some filesystem-induced wall I'm about to walk into? -------

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Prototype Apple //c found

by dastar＠wco.com

Of course everything I've dragged home in the last few months simply pales in comparison to the prototype Apple //c I brought home today. I was on my way back to work in the early afternoon and was trying to decide if I should stop at my favorite thrift store on the way which would put me in traffic, or if I should cut across the hills to get back quicker. I thought to myself that there may just be something at the thrift store that would make the trip worth it, so the thoughts of finding something cool won over my need to get back to the office. This is one case where I'm glad I let my irrational urges get the best of me. The first thing I saw when I got to the electronics section was an Apple //c, and I thought to myself, "Hmmm...do I want another //c?" (since I have like 3 already). But when I picked it up I noticed something strange about it. The case was smooth instead of having the normal texture. I flipped it over and noticed there was a small green sticker on the bottom instead of the normal grey one with the Apple //c wording and part numbers, etc. The sticker read "Apple Computer Inc., PCSD MFG, 3087 North First Street, San Jose, CA 95134" then the words "Prototype" and "Test Equipment" with check boxes next to each. "Prototype" was checked off. Of course phrases like "holy shit" went through my head. The label also had a serial number of "P1160" and at the bottom was "WARNING: PROPRIETARY PRODUCT". Now this was too cool for words to describe (<--- isn't that deliciously nerdy?) When I got home I opened it up along with a regular production //c and started comparing the motherboards of the two. There were several minor differences. Some silkscreen lettering was different and there were a couple minor component changes, but nothing significant and for the most part the board layout was identical. I pulled out the power supply on the prototype and the production model which unveiled the following: Prototype Production --------- ---------- TERI MAIN LOGIC MAIN LOGIC 820-0115-0 820-0115-C (c) 1983 APPLE COMPUTER APPLE COMPUTER (c) 1983 Was "TERI" the codename for the Apple //c? A couple other interesting differences: on the prototype, there was a small board with the labeling "Apple Computer Network SKA156-00" in the place near the serial port where on the production model is a simple transistor pack. The "network" board simply has transistors on it. Also, at location C19 on the proto is a 74LS161 whereas on the production there is a 1.8432 Mhz crystal. On the proto, the CHAR GEN EPROM is socketed and the system ROM is an EPROM with a sticker which has "v1.0 5/19 5F85" written on it. Lastly, for the motherboard product number (all Apple components have a product number in the form of xxx-xxxx-x) the proto had 6xx-xxxx-whereas the production has 612-0128-E. Oh yeah, the proto had a spider living in the connector of the power supply. Spiders find the stupidest places to spin their web. What the hell did he expect to come crawling through there!? I was just going to flick him off into the room but if my wife found him a couple days from now she would've fainted, so I did away with the poor little sucker. R.I.P. Here's where you envious types shoot yourself: I paid $2.98 for it. :) I've found some of the best stuff in thrift stores, but this beats all. It will be proudly displayed right next to my prototype Apple //gs at the next Vintage Computer Festival. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/03/98]

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb