- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>> I used a TTY ASR-33 as a printer for my PET years ago. My memory is >> that if I left the receiver open circuit, i yammered away printing >> nulls; if I shorted out the loop it didn't. I interfaced it using one >> transistor - no power supply was necessary. >> >> +---------------------- >> | >> OUT b |/c >> -------/\/\/\/---------| NPN TTY >> |\e >> PET | >> -------------------------+---------------------- >> GND > > > For I've got a Kludge > And a good Kludge too ;-) > > Seriously, that works. I've done it myself a few times. But it's not the > official way to drive a teletype - the external device should source the > loop current. And I prefer to teach people the right way and let them > find out the kludges for themselves. Oh, yes. Absolutely. But I was disagreeing with your assertion that while 5V might do for the transmit loop, you'd "need" 12V for the receive loop. >> Note: I never interfaced the TTY transmitter - not even for reading >> paper tape (don't know why not) IIRC, one of the problems I had was the high resistance of the transmit loop - many kilohms, I think. It probably was mostly contact resistance and highly non-linear i.e. apparent resistance would be less at higher currents), but I wouldn't like to use only 5V. I'd suggest a reasonable sized decoupling capacitor to get rid of contact noise, too - say, up to 1 microfarad. > Err, because the ASR33 reader is horrible and mangles tapes? You have a > Trend, don't you? This was at least 4 years before I ever _saw_ any other paper tape stuff. Long before I got the Trend. Or even my little DSI box. (DSI = Data Specialties Inc. They made a 30cps reader/punch unit that was sold in the UK by a small company called Teleprinter Equipment Ltd. Never met either of them anywhere else.) Philip.

28 years, 3 months

2
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North Star Horizon

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> It interests me why some one wants a particular machine especially <> since you do not seem to know much about it. < <Well, I can't speak for the person you were replying to, but in my <case I'm often interested in machines I know little to nothing about <because I'm interested in learning about them. Although you can <learn a lot without one, it can help if you have one to explore. That is a good reason. The fear I have and have encountered is people lusting for an XZ21 and when they get it find they are totally in over their head to do programming or hardware troubleshooting often required. The NS* was a good machine but it was S100 and beyond some general things was not a pop in a board and play thing like PCs. I get real scared when some one asks me if a VGA monitor works with a Altair or did it require a XT style keyboard! Allison

28 years, 3 months

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I will say Amen to that, considering that I just mailed 9 boxes of MS-DOS 3.3 which were still shrinkwrapped and beign thrown away by my school. THat has to be $500 right there that could have been used on pencils. I won't complain about the fate the DOS 3.1 boxes met... > >> >> Personally, I believe the "computer literacy in schools is everything" >> movement is a result of inept teachers and a haywire NEA. > >Amen! > >> students should be introduced to computers (read: word >> processors/calculators) until the first year of high school after >> mastering basic reading, comprehension, writing and math skills. > > >The problem with introducing elementary and middle school kids to >computers so early is that they either a) know more than the lab admin, or >b) aren't allowed to use them in any constructive way. I'm only in the >tenth grade, but I've already seen seven new labs installed in area schools. >The school districts almost ALWAYS spend WAY too much on new computers, >mainly from the worst vendors, only to have to replace them when the >warranty runs out (with very little usage, BTW). The computers simply >aren't used until high school, when word processing/database, programming, >and other such courses are offered. Anything before is mainly a waste of >money. > >What about the 'net? I don't understand why people think that the >internet is such a great "tool" that will help schools. Just do a search >for "barbie" on Yahoo. Or, for that matter, try "video" or something >general. Especially considering that most schools don't use any >Internet blocking software.. > >It takes most people a long time to get used to using search engines in such a >way to get what they want. Most people in my school don't have any idea how to >use the 'net, and could care less. That is the general attitude at most >schools that I have been to. > >In other words, most of the money spent on computer equipment is a waste. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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Netscape needs Classic Computer Help!

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

If you haven't seen the news yet, I found out thanks to http://slashdot.org , Microsoft is pulling one of their dirtiest stunts ever in their attempt to destroy Netscape. If anyone doesn't think Microsoft is evil this should convince them, unless they are niave enough to think Microsoft isn't behind this! In what would appear to be a result of their assimilation of Wang last month, Wang has announced a Lawsuit against Netscape for Patent infringement. Basically Wang is claiming to have "Save As..." patented?!?!?! For an explanation see http://www.mozilla.org/legal/wangsuit.html I also like the Graphic and comment at http://www.mozilla.org The problem is, Wang is sueing them for something that almost EVERY piece of software available does! Netscape needs examples of software that do the things in the patent prior to March 30th, 1983. See the below information. Wang might be able to use this to get a Court injunction to prevent Netscape from distributing Navigator?!?! A lot of the Free Software fanatics are seeing this as a direct attack against free software by Microsoft, since Netscape just released the Navigator source code. Zane Here is the portion of the statement that is the most important: ----------- Wang is asserting that a patent that it holds for a video text system is infringed by the Netscape browser. Netscape is vigorously defending the lawsuit. Wang contends the patent discloses the invention of: Saving web pages retrieved from a server using "Save As" (See Claim 23, 24), Bookmarks (Claims 20-22), Saving files with file extensions and then retrieving the pages and decoding the files based on the file extension (Claim 38). The patent was filed in 1984. We believe the patent is noninfringed, unenforceable, and invalid based on, among other things, prior art such as the Alto & Star computers from Xerox Parc, Terminal Emulators, connectivity software prevelant in the the early 80s such as CrossTalk, Unix symbolic links (ln -s), and various other "video text" systems like Telidon, Prestel, Mupid used in the late 70s, early 80s. It's easy to say "of course that's invalid", but what is required are specific references to prior art. If you know of additional prior art publications, software programs, books, or systems in existence --prior to March 30, 1983-- which disclose and/or describe the claimed elements send us a message. Send responses or questions to mozilla.org. Please include the following information: Name of the Publication or System Date of the Publication or Date System Was Publicly Known Features it Discloses Where Can the Publication or System Be Found (ie. university, reference library, company, contact person) ---------- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 3 months

6
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OS/2 Errors..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Qoo, Tim! >Wadda hell... If you say so. ;-) Anyway good to see you subscribed. >>OS/2 !! SYS01475 >>OS/2 !! SYS02027 >> >>So anyway, it freezes like that. This, BTW, is on a 2.1GB HDD, with no >>other OS'es currently installed. >It may be 2.1G that causes the problem - if it is used as single partition. >I heard that Warp3 isn't too well in handling big partitions. Try breaking >it into smaller pieces (<1G) Oh, yeah, that's why I gave specifically 2.1GB. So I'm going to have the boot manager, 120MB for Warp, 700 for Linux and the rest for Windows (remember, I need to run some Win32 apps, not by choice.) >hope that helps, >-andy Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

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North Star Horizon

by staponski＠swpa.gov

Kai- I am interested in purchasing the North Star Horizon. I am not local and don't have a trade so would be a cash deal. Do you have any info about the machine such as amount of memory, type of floppy(ies), last known operating system, hard drive (if any), keyboard, monitor, and condition (working/nonworking). Thanks Randy Staponski

28 years, 3 months

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Oh, what a tangled web...

by mor＠crl.com

With the recent discussion on the MTPRO price guide, the ZX80 bashing, and a bit further back the Enrico Tedeschi flame festival, I found it quite amusing to run across the following entry at eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13957826 For those without a web browser, I'll just say that this is a book on Sinclair computer history, being auctioned by the author of the MTPRO price guide (who goes by the handle "ClassicComputing" at eBay). Most remarkable of all, the book was authored by a gentleman named Enrico Tedeschi. -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

28 years, 3 months

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Can we talk about computers at least?

by bill.sheehan＠stoneweb.com

I'd love to check out the MIT Flea Market. When and where is it? "J. Maynard Gelinas" <maynard(a)jmg.com> on 05/14/98 01:15:48 PM Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC) Subject: Re: Can we talk about computers at least? Well Agreed! Sorry I haven't been active in the list much... between work and a family illness I've been _busy_! BTW: Anyone planning on attending the MIT Flea market this Sunday? I doubt prices are going to be reasonable what with that $100 PDP-11/23 last month. --jmg > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> > Subject: Can we talk about computers at least? > > People. > > Could we move the discussion about the perceived woeful inadequacies of > the current state of public education to a more appropriate forum? Like > say a usenet group? Or a new mailing list? Basically anywhere but here, > where it really does not belong?

28 years, 3 months

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Can we talk about computers at least?

by dastar＠wco.com

People. Could we move the discussion about the perceived woeful inadequacies of the current state of public education to a more appropriate forum? Like say a usenet group? Or a new mailing list? Basically anywhere but here, where it really does not belong? Thanks in advance. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years, 3 months

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Classics in Chicago area?

by archive＠navix.net

This is for those of you in the Chicago area, and anyone else that might be able to help me. I am just writing to ask if some of you might be able to direct to some good classic computer sources in the Chicago, Illinois area. I am leaving for Chicago for the weekend, and will have some free time to browse thrift shops, etc. Any place that might have a good stock of old 8-bitters? Thanks, CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

28 years, 3 months

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OS/2 Errors..

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-14 05:40:03 EDT, you write: << Sorry, as it seems that I've become the maker of off-topic content, but now after I've installed OS/2 (first 6 disks) Warp 3, using FAT (High Performance File System didn't work), I get: OS/2 !! SYS01475 OS/2 !! SYS02027 >> if i remember correctly, that's the os2 version of: non system disk or disk error. you might have to remove the floppy from a: drive or do a sysinstx command to sys the hard drive. david

28 years, 3 months

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OS/2 Errors..

by andy＠topaz.kiev.ua

Qoo, Tim! At 12:38 14.05.98 +0300, you wrote: >after I've installed OS/2 (first 6 disks) Warp 3, using FAT (High >Performance File System didn't work), I get: Wadda hell... >OS/2 !! SYS01475 >OS/2 !! SYS02027 > >So anyway, it freezes like that. This, BTW, is on a 2.1GB HDD, with no >other OS'es currently installed. It may be 2.1G that causes the problem - if it is used as single partition. I heard that Warp3 isn't too well in handling big partitions. Try breaking it into smaller pieces (<1G) hope that helps, -andy

28 years, 3 months

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Hello - I'm a new reader /STUDENTS

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Despite my former comments I'd say computers do have a place in education as do television. I went through most of school as an avid non-writer, managed good grades despite it even in english so long as writing was not required. It was word processing or actually a simple editor and printer that open the door to writing, somehow made it less painful. It didn't help my bizzare grammer or spelling but at least I wrote. The catalyst was writing code and having to document it. Did computers help, yes. It wasn't pacman or clicking icons just using the tool for what it can do best. What was best was simply allowing me to bang down words and then peice them together in some sensible way. As to what computer to use, old! why old, no matter what they have new now it will be old it a few years when they have to apply it. It's better they understand so that the knowledge can be applied rather than keystrokes. Students would do better to learn VI and ED than the latest version of QARK or Word. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Everything about Apple ///

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>Seem to remember I had the same problem when I tried to find out info >about my /// a few years back... back then WAP had no web site, email or >anything that I could find, which made life difficult for those of us >stuck in the UK... hopefully things have progressed a little by now! > >(If you find a web address could you post it here please?) http://www.wap.org/ -- Kirk

28 years, 3 months

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3.5" Drive for Apple ???

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>I did pick up another Apple peripheral at the same time, which may offer a >clue. It's a Modem 1200, Model A9M0301. The "clue", assuming it came >from the same source, is the 8-pin mini-DIN connector. I don't know what >uses that kind of connection for the serial port. > The //gs and Macs do, maybe the later //c or //c+ >Did the Apple 3.5" Drive have a mechanical eject? Fully manual, I mean, >not just a push-button that tells the motorized ejection mechanism to wake >up. Very un-Mac-like. The manual eject was only on the drives designed for the // series. -- Kirk

28 years, 3 months

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Everything about Apple ///

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> [wap]... >>Thanks! We'll jump right over the the web pa....oh, you didn't post one. >>Ok then we'll just call the phone numbe...oops, you didn't give us that >>either. Ok, well I guess we'll just have to do it the hard way and write >>a letter to...hmmm, no physical address. :*) Seem to remember I had the same problem when I tried to find out info about my /// a few years back... back then WAP had no web site, email or anything that I could find, which made life difficult for those of us stuck in the UK... hopefully things have progressed a little by now! (If you find a web address could you post it here please?) cheers, Jules >

28 years, 3 months

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3.5" Drive for Apple ???

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Greetings, Last week, along with a boxload of other stuff, I picked up an external 3.5" floppy drive that apears to be intended for Apple machines. It's a DS800 from DataSpace Corporation. It physically plugs into my Apple //c, but I can't get the machine to recognize it. The drive makes a noise when I power up the computer, but that's all. Attempts to access S6, D2 or any other slot and drive combination doesn't get anywhere. It DOES respond to my Mac 512K, though. I plugged it into that machine and shoved a Mac-formatted disk in it, and an icon and open window popped up. I don't think the drive can be intended for the Mac, though, because it's got a MECHANICAL eject mechanism. In fact I was able to eject that Mac disk (write protected, thankfully ;) ) and the Mac didn't notice. Is there something I need to do to get my //c to recognize the drive? Or is it intended for use on a //gs? Or did this company make a line of dangerous Mac peripherals in an attempt to give the platform a bad name for an overabundance of disk corruptions? ;) Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca

28 years, 3 months

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OS/2 Errors..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Sorry, as it seems that I've become the maker of off-topic content, but now after I've installed OS/2 (first 6 disks) Warp 3, using FAT (High Performance File System didn't work), I get: OS/2 !! SYS01475 OS/2 !! SYS02027 So anyway, it freezes like that. This, BTW, is on a 2.1GB HDD, with no other OS'es currently installed. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

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Ali Babas cave

by hansp＠columbia.digiweb.com

I just spent Saturday morning in an Ali Babas cave of old computers ranging form a huge 6ft tall by 10 ft wide analogue computer through a few DEC machines (see below, and old ICT 1301, a Telefunken TR4 a burroughs 1800, a few French minicomputers and quite a number of unidentified systems. Included were lots of tape and disk drives, boxes of documentationa nd software. Just a dream come true! The collection belongs to ACONIT : "l'Association pour le Conservation de Informatique et Telematique" I guess that's pretty clear even to non french speakers. It has been accumulated over since 1985 and is currently stored in a warehouse in a town called Voiron near Grenoble. ACONIT has acquired larger and more convenient premisies in Grenoble itself and will be moving the collection there later this year and we plan on setting up workshops etc to restore as many of these systems as possible. Among the DEC machines I saw was a complete PDP-9. How rare are these? Anyways, if anyone is in the Grenoble region later on in the year drop me a line and I can provide a personally conducted guided tour of what we have. I'll keep you all informed of what we are doing as thngs develop. Regards, Hans B Pufal

28 years, 3 months

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:44 AM 5/13/98 -0400, you wrote: > > Personally, I believe the "computer literacy in schools is everything" > movement is a result of inept teachers and a haywire NEA. Here in the > Washington, D.C. area I have read reports of teachers pushing > 'invented' spelling as a method to avoid hurting the challenged > student's self esteem. Educators seem to think the student will Ummm... I don't doubt someone came up with this, but I doubt that it is widespread; If one teacher does it, the media pick it up and report it as if everyone was doing it, and of course the public loves to think that all teachers are idiots just goofing off until they can retire. I think it's jealousy over this (imaginary) summer vacation. Most teachers are extremely hard working, committed educators who put a lot of their own time and money into their classes. My girlfriend (admittedly, one of the most insane) arrives at school before 7am (everyday) and rarely leaves before 5pm. She spends her evenings and weekends doing schoolwork. She spends her summers planning the next year and building various curriculum. And she works with the other teachers all the time, so she's not alone. The problem is partially a lack of funding for schools and very a lack of adequate parenting. Rachel sent home some work for the kids to do with their parents one time; she got one back where the father had written (on both sides, in big, red letters) that his kid can't do such advanced work (they'd been doing it in class all week) and that "I AM NOT A TEACHER". With a father like that, it's a wonder that the kid knows how to go to the bathroom. There are other kids: one whose parents come to school at lunch time to take him to the bathroom and feed him his lunch (first grade, no kidding), and a kid who is almost completely blind, yet even after the social worker took him to the eye doctor (with her own money) still doesn't have glasses. Kids whose parents beat them, who are being raised by grandparents because their parents don't want them, kids who see people shot in real life, as well as on TV. And there are kids who are taught to hate because of skin color or religion, or whatever. Kids that are taught that the proper response to a disagreement is hit. Kids that are ignored at home, left on their own with a babysitter or nanny, or worse, to wander the neighborhood. Kids that are allowed, even encouraged, if it will shut them up, to watch stuff on telly that even *I* won't watch. Sure, there are bad teachers out there, just as there are bad mechanics, programmers, doctors, etc. But most of them work harder than probably anybody on this list, and probably for a lot less money. But parents don't even take responsibility for checking out the teachers. There are also different styles of teaching; you wouldn't drop your volvo off at a Land Rover mechanic, would you? But most parents don't bother to see (or ask) if a teacher's style is the best for their kids. Most parents pay more attention to whether or not their kids have brushed their teeth than whether or not they've done their homework. Don't put the blame on the teachers without putting it on the parents as well. > in software will correct them. What a cop out. I don't believe > students should be introduced to computers (read: word > processors/calculators) until the first year of high school after > mastering basic reading, comprehension, writing and math skills. Computers are a very valuable tool for teaching those very skills. To deny kids access to them is to slow them down. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

2
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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>At 07:06 PM 5/13/98 +0300, you wrote: >>to learn anything in perticular, except for stuff pertaining to... anyway, I >>think that here's a good time to give students a choice to know what they're >>going to do. I, for instance, want to specilize in Computers. Spending >>time learning "Pre-Algebra" (Just spent 2 class periods making a protractor >>accurate to 90' from a piece of paper.) isn't helpful, at least not that > >Okay, so maybe you're a wiz in math/science, but you've got two >misspellings in there (pArticular and speciAlize) so perhaps you should be >concentrating on grammar/literature/etc? 8^) I'm not a wiz in math/science at all. That's the point. I'm not learning anything, and neither are the 14 or so people that I really know in the class. In a class where 2/3 isn't learning jack SHOULD tell the teacher something. >>>High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed >>>to find paying work. >> >>I say that some students should be given the oppertunity to do this in Jr. >>High. Not everyone, but some people. After all, by this time, you know if >>you're not going to be a chemist, programmer, or anything. > >Well, in Jr. High I was all set to be a private dick... er, detective. >Early high school, I was ready to head for Harvard Law School. Late high >school, the plan was U-Ill/Urbana-Champaign for under Grad Elect/Elect >Engineering, then MIT for grad school. During college (SF City College) I >was going to join the FBI. After dropping out of college, I wanted to be a >synthesist, or maybe an inventor. Now, I want to be a politician. > >So when is it you know what you want to be when you grow up? Computers. Entrepreneur. I'll start my own company developing software. I'd start out with simple stuff, such as an e-mail client, and grow. Another good thing to do (at least now) is to start a web page/Virtual Community. That's changed a single time since Kindergarten, where I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer, seeing as how I had zip experience with computers. My idea's been the same for 5 years now. Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:59 PM 5/12/98 +0000, you wrote: >Apple and 8bitters of it's ilks that is found in K-12 has it's places >because these are what excels at teaching kids materials but in high >school level, we need to convert guys over to real things like >windows and 486 boxens, unix and like using word processing and >speadsheets, such yak yak..of most types not including 100% dumb M$ NONONONONONONONO!!! Word Processing and Spreadsheets, even 'net access can be taught just fine on 8-bit machines, or DOS-based PC's. The younger kids are the ones who can profit most from the non-textual interfaces that the newer machines can offer. To over-simplify: Older kids can read; they can learn to type commands. Younger kids can't read; they need pictures (icons). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

3
2
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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Personally, I believe the "computer literacy in schools is everything" movement is a result of inept teachers and a haywire NEA. Here in the Washington, D.C. area I have read reports of teachers pushing 'invented' spelling as a method to avoid hurting the challenged student's self esteem. Educators seem to think the student will eventually learn to spell correctly later in life or that spell-checks in software will correct them. What a cop out. I don't believe students should be introduced to computers (read: word processors/calculators) until the first year of high school after mastering basic reading, comprehension, writing and math skills. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/12/98 9:47 PM When was this thing with "computer literacy in schools is everything" started? I like computers in schools, but I am tired of looking at proposed plans to replace 5 MORE classrooms with computer labs. Is this a classic thing? Would you in general say that computers have affected education (keeping the discussion OnT, of course). > >> snoball wrote: >> > >> > Hi, I am a teacher here at the local elementary school in Humble, TX. To be >> > honest, the computer department here at the school is rather pathetic, two >> > Apple //e's and an XT that was donated that I can't get to work. To be >> > frank, these kids are going into a world where they are illiterate in the >> > basic workings of a computer. I hate to sound desperate, but I have just >> > exausted all leads I know to take on the matter. I saw your ad and thought >> >> Don't panic. Here in New Jersey, the kids are all experts at >> Nintendo (and some of the brighter lights at hacking security), >> but damned few can actually read the manuals. Remember, the >> most important component of "computer literacy" is "literacy". >> If the kids can read, they can learn computers. If they can't, >> there's not much else worth teaching them except to pee on the >> side of the dumpster the cops aren't watching. (I may be a bit >> prejudiced on the side of reading over computers -- I only have >> fifty-odd computers, I've got [half bought new] several thousand >> books, mostly the science fiction I've loved since before the >> "New Math" was introduced to my grade school [after I'd had the >> benefit of learning the stuff that worked].) >> -- >> Ward Griffiths >> They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >> Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. >> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May12.214741.1767.41390; Tue, 12 May 1998 21:47:41 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id SAA20582; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:45:24 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id SAA10688 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:43:42 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f185.hotmail.com [207.82.251.74]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id SAA03234 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:43:41 -0700 Received: (qmail 23636 invoked by uid 0); 13 May 1998 01:43:38 -0000 Received: from 207.78.94.40 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:43:38 PDT Message-Id: <19980513014338.23635.qmail(a)hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:43:38 PDT Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION Content-Type: text/plain X-Originating-IP: [207.78.94.40] X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 3 months

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Hello - I'm a new reader /STUDENTS

by whayes＠snark.wizard.com

> Are there any students besides Derek on the list? > > I am a fourth year electrical engineering major here at > Oklahoma State. > > --Scott I'm a terminal student of the college of Hard Knocks.... Graduating when they pry my cold dead fingers from the keyboard. -- Bill #include <std.disclaimer.h> +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | whayes(a)wizard.com | Powered by FreeBSD | finger for pgp public key. | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Key fingerprint = 54 AC A0 8E F0 B6 94 6B 93 6B 34 D7 EB 13 78 BC

28 years, 3 months

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Apple and 8bitters of it's ilks that is found in K-12 has it's places <because these are what excels at teaching kids materials but in high <school level, we need to convert guys over to real things like <windows and 486 boxens, unix and like using word processing and <speadsheets, such yak yak..of most types not including 100% dumb M$ <stuff. Let me compress that: Elementary school, how to learn. (language, reading, arithmetic) Intermeadiate school, how to find answers to questions and communicate them. High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed to find paying work. Computers are a part of life and M$ stuff is unfortunatly reality we live with every day. The unfortunate part is I meet kids at the grocer that play doom, surf the net and can't count change. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>At 03:28 AM 5/13/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote (more or less): > >Perhaps Someone should make a web site with reports of classic >system sale prices, in order to balance the tales of $500 PETs >with $5 PETs. Like anything else, so many other factors must >be considered: rarity, condition, history, etc. > >- John Actually, David Greelish (of "historically brewed" and the "classic computing society") is attempting just such an online price guide. His efforts so far can be seen on: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm >On Tue, 12 May 1998, The Adept wrote: > >> I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the >> following: >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13839197 >> >> I'll save the surprise for you who want to check it out (it's a >> Commodore Educator 64) > >Holy Crap! I should just sell my damn collection at the prices some of >these goons are paying. I could pay off all my bills AND put in that pool >I've always wanted, plus put a down payment on the Viper. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: >dastar(a)siconic.com >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] > yeah well a fool is born every 1 second dont they say? or was it a fool and thier money soon part......... man I could get that Cadilliac Ive always wanted if i sold my collection......

28 years, 3 months

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ASR33

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Hi All, I recently acquired an ASR33 and I'm in need of some assitance in order to be able to let it work against my Unix box. At the back of the powersupply there is a terminal strip with a number of lugs. Question is, which lugs to use, the unit is an UCC-6 (for private wire setups). Other problem is which voltage to use for the current loop to rs232, I have a converter, and uses 5 volt maximum, and do not know if that will work. If not, does someone then have a proper schematic? Thanks, Ed

28 years, 3 months

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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Well aside from the fact that we're _all_ students whether or not >we're matriculated somewhere -- Tim Hotze is around here someplace >and I'm pretty sure he's not officially in college yet. Far from it, unfortunaetly. BTW, just for other students, or ex-students on the list: Yesterday I had my science fair project: Linux Vs. Windows. Now, I had two or three problems: 1) Couldn't seem to "dumb it down" enough to get the judges to understand. 2) Presentation wasn't really "flashy", more like a scientific paper. 3) The paper was too "dumbed down" to actually say what I wanted it to say. I couldn't do what I wanted to so that it would make sense to the judges. >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I am. In 7th grade. Still think that jr. high school's a COMPLETE waste of time, especially for geeks (or people like me, who like to consider themselves geeks, but probably couldn't make it...), at our school. No UNIX, no programming, not even a 32 bit OS!!! (And that's even counting Windows!!!!) All I really can do is do what I want in Computers... (but with the software that they've got available, the most I can do is type a word doc. instead of write an e-mail... TONS of freedom there...) Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Daniel A. Seagraves <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 7:14 PM Subject: Re: Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS >[Any students?] > >I'm a high school student... >-------

28 years, 3 months

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:06 PM 5/13/98 +0300, you wrote: >to learn anything in perticular, except for stuff pertaining to... anyway, I >think that here's a good time to give students a choice to know what they're >going to do. I, for instance, want to specilize in Computers. Spending >time learning "Pre-Algebra" (Just spent 2 class periods making a protractor >accurate to 90' from a piece of paper.) isn't helpful, at least not that Okay, so maybe you're a wiz in math/science, but you've got two misspellings in there (pArticular and speciAlize) so perhaps you should be concentrating on grammar/literature/etc? 8^) >>High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed >>to find paying work. > >I say that some students should be given the oppertunity to do this in Jr. >High. Not everyone, but some people. After all, by this time, you know if >you're not going to be a chemist, programmer, or anything. Well, in Jr. High I was all set to be a private dick... er, detective. Early high school, I was ready to head for Harvard Law School. Late high school, the plan was U-Ill/Urbana-Champaign for under Grad Elect/Elect Engineering, then MIT for grad school. During college (SF City College) I was going to join the FBI. After dropping out of college, I wanted to be a synthesist, or maybe an inventor. Now, I want to be a politician. So when is it you know what you want to be when you grow up? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

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Interesting c64 usage

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:41 AM 5/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >Did you ask if he added one too many zeros? Obviously the guy is heavy into >hallucenogenic drugs...The Commie itself is worth *maybe* $40 and the mixer is >worth maybe another $200 if your lucky. I have seen and done some things with >those obscure little breadboxes though that most people would never think >possible. Ummm... I don't dispute the commie value (perhaps a tad high?) but a 24-track (or was it 32?) 8-bus mixer with automation for $200? Tell me where -- I'll buy it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

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EduComp Rant (OT, Was: RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:43 PM 5/12/98 PDT, you wrote: >When was this thing with "computer literacy in schools is everything" >started? I like computers in schools, but I am tired of looking at >proposed plans to replace 5 MORE classrooms with computer labs. Is >this a classic thing? Would you in general say that computers have >affected education (keeping the discussion OnT, of course). Well, I'm shooting from the hip here, but I do have some experience in this area. The idea of "computer labs" comes from IMO two things: 1) The idea of teaching "computers" as a separate subject and 2) the inability for schools to afford computers for every classroom. Looking at these in turn, "computers" as a subject in itself *may* have been a valid concept *at one time* (i.e., with some of the machines we deal with) but now is no longer an issue. Kids today have very little problem with the concepts involved in running a program (it's the same as sticking in a nintendo cartridge) or using a mouse (aka joystick) etc. Certainly, programming is a separate issue, but not everyone needs to learn C or Java or even Basic, just as not everyone needs to learn how to rebuild a transmission or tune a piano. As for schools not being able to afford computers, well heck, they can't even afford pencils and paper. I kid you not. Every fall, I get woken up at 7am to be first in line at Target when the Crayons/folders/pencil boxes/pencils/scissors/etc. go on sale (every week, it seems -- <groan>) so that my girlfriend can buy the supplies she wants for her classroom on sale *with her own money*. So, yes, most schools can't afford computers, in general, let alone enough for each classroom. So, what to do? Should they even bother? I think, based on Rachel's experiences, that the answer is a resounding *YES*, teachers should scrounge and steal and swindle as many computers as they can for their schools/classrooms. But not to teach "computers". They should be a tool, just like any other, to teach reading, math, science, comprehension, etc. And so I'll go against the grain and say it's more important in the lower grades (K-3 or so) to have computers available than in the upper grades. Upper grades, junior and high school especially, can do just as well with older machines as they can with the newer ones. PC-Write under DOS is an excellent solution for writing term papers or book reports, and will teach the concepts of word processing just as well as the latest version of MSWord. Qbasic, Cobol, and C/C++ for DOS are all just as good as their GUI counterparts for learning how to write a program; Once you understand the idea, switching to another language is a piece of cake. I write all my web pages in PC-Write (and I'm damn proud of some of them) and often use Arachne (DOS browser) to check them. Non-readers, however, can make better use of newer technology. Programs like the Playroom, Millie's Math House, and such really get the kids interested and having a good time; they don't realize (or care) that they're actually learning to read or count or what-have-you. This is the real value of computers in education. Mind you, older computers can be used here too, (the original version of the Playroom ran fine on a Mac Plus), but if you've got an old XT and a 486, give the upper grades the XT and the wee ones the 486. As to the craze for pushing computer literacy at the expense of general literacy, I think that older folks (30+) look at technology and how it was new to them, and how it is becoming so pervasive in our society, and they're scared. Scared that their kids will be as unprepared as they were. (What they don't understand, of course, is that that very pervasiveness will make kids take the technology in stride: My niece could work the VCR (play, ffwd, rwd, eject) at 1.5years; she's a wiz on the computer) Add to that the media and the politicians who love to play on the public's fears and work them into a frenzy to serve their own purposes and the corporate world who just want to sell more *stuff*... Computers have affected education, both for good and bad (like most anything.) They allow teachers to come up with fun worksheets that teach, quickly and easily; they can help kids that couldn't learn to read finally do it; they allow kids to work independantly at their own speed, allowing the teacher to work with the kids that need the most help. But, they also cause distractions, can be abused as babysitters by lesser teachers, and can displace funding and space for other, more needed supplies and equipment. Overall, the benefits of computers in the schools (as elsewhere, IMO) *FAR* outweigh the problems. Now the problem with older computers in the classrooms is not that they're not useful, it's that they're not adequately supported for the majority of non-computer-literate teachers. (Teachers know how to teach; they don't know how to do a low-level format on a CP/M hard drive.) So, all you folks on this list, who know what you're doing, call up your local schools and see if they have any [older] computers that they need help putting to use. > honest, the computer department here at the school is rather > pathetic, two Apple //e's and an XT that was donated that I > can't get to work. Apple //e's are fine for teaching BASIC programming and Word processing, and I know there are educational programs available for the younger kids, too. (Right Sam?) That XT should be repairable, and would make a great text-editing station or could be put to use in math classes running Lotus 1-2-3 or Excel. But, we've got a teacher who can't put them to use, but they don't have the skills/knowledge to do so. So, are there any collectors in/around Humble TX that can help out? P.S., I have my girlfriend working on a list of all the EduSoftware she has and what it's good at (and how good it is) to be put on a web page, so that someone who gets a computer for their classroom can see what software works and will run. (All her computers are Mac IIci or less (68030 or lower) (though we've got one IIci with an '040 board in it to go in, as soon as I get a chance to clean up the hard drive and such.)) >>> prejudiced on the side of reading over computers -- I only have >>> fifty-odd computers, I've got [half bought new] several thousand >>> books, mostly the science fiction I've loved since before the Well, I've only got about a 1000 books, and about 100 computers, but there's a lot more in the house (my folks had a whole wall of bookshelves put in when they bought the house). I too would say that if you can't read/write (communicate)/count, a computer's not going to do you much good in the long run -- it can't do that for you. (In fact, it will get you to do more of the above.) Anyway, sorry for the ultra-long rant... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

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RSX-11 Disk Images anyone?

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi all, > The relevant documentation is "MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual", > AA-L619A-TK, and "Storage System Diagnostics And Utility Protocol", > AA-L620A-TK, which in turn are parts of the UDA50 Programmer's > Documentation Kit (QP-905-GZ). My copy is version 1.2, April 1982. anyone has this documents here, and don't need it anymore ? thanks, emanuel

28 years, 3 months

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PLease ID CD-ROM unit

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

OK, the other chips are: Hitachi HD74LS32P 367AP 240P 164P MB74LS00 138 TI J549X SN74LS541N The card has a weird logo: A large S, progressively narrowing toward the top. Could someone tell me about the actual drive? >They're probably TTL buffers/address decoding logic. Can you post the >numbers (which probably start 74LS) and we'll try to identify them and >guess likely functions. > >My guess is that this is some kind of custom parallel interface. Put the >8255 into Mode 2 and you've got a bidirectional data path on port A and >control lines on the other 2 ports. That's the most likely setup >(although it might be something totally different, like using one port >for input and another for output). > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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PS/2 30 architecture

by pjoules＠enterprise.net

I hope that this is marginally on topic - the technology is over 10 years old and it is about using an old machine even if the OS is brand new. I have a PS/2 Model 30 and am taking part in testing the ELKS port of Linux to the XT architecture. On the PS/2 ELKS cannot see any keystrokes, having booted OK. Does anyone (Tony?) have a techref for this machine and if so what is the difference between this and a 'normal' XT. I am thinking that perhaps the keyboard buffer may be at a different place in memory thus DOS, using the BIOS, can see it but we can't by looking directly at the hardware. TIA Pete

28 years, 3 months

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FW: DECStation 2100 help needed

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found this on Usenet. Can anyone help out? If so, please respond directly to the author of the message. Thanks. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Wed, 13 May 98 15:22:55 CST, in comp.unix.ultrix you wrote: >>From: Mike.Hoff(a)CRHA-Health.Ab.Ca (Mike Hoff) >>Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix >>Subject: Old DECstation >>Date: Wed, 13 May 98 15:22:55 CST >>Organization: Unorganized. >>Lines: 10 >>Distribution: world >>Message-ID: <This.644(a)Somewhere.COM> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: veena.cc.uregina.ca >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!ais.net!newsfeed.wli.net!news.he.net!news.pagesat.net!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!news.uregina.ca!(a)somewhere.com >> >> >>Sorry to bother you, but I'm not sure who to talk to (and Digital wasn't >>much help). I have an old Decstation 2100 dug out of the basement - is >>this worth anything? Any idea where this equipment could be taken for >>repairs and OS help? Any information you can give me would be >>appreciated. >> >>Please reply to Mike.Hoff(a)CRHA-Health.Ab.Ca directly as I do not have >>Usenet access from my office. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 3 months

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OS/2 Warp 3 Help... (Yes, off topic...)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK... remember that Arthur J. Carp fellow... well, I got a copy of Warp 3... 3.5" disks. (It's been a while...) Anyway, this is semi-on topic, as OS/2's a pretty good story, and older versions are classic. So here's the deal. I can get all the way to Disk 6, then I re-insert the Install diskette. Then, it asks me to reboot. I reboot, and it's not there. I also have Windows 95 on this system. So how do I: Get past that 2) Get to see the drive's contents (it's not the same C as FAT 32 sees it...) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

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Everything about Apple ///

by wp4wssam＠coqui.net

If you need anything or need any information about Apple /// (SARA) the best place is Washington Apple Pi. They are a group dedicated to all apple and mac hardware and software. Mr. Dave Ottalini is the historian and librarian for the apple ///. To get help from him or any other person ap WAP, you need to join the club.

28 years, 3 months

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terminal keyboards needed

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I just shipped the VT 100 and VT 220 that I had without keyboards. I gave them away for the shipping and a few people in the list had told me that they have extra keyboards for sale/trade/free (I don't remember) but the newe owner in New Hamster is looking for a keyboard for each one and if those people that have them could write me back (direct email) I can relay the message to him. Thanks guys and gals. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 3 months

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Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I have such a beast, it is a Model 1083 (I believe). Unfortunately I don't have any other information on it. It's rather heavy for such a slim luggable. Perhaps it is better described as a lugtop? Laptop on steroids? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/13/98 5:33 PM Anyone heard of such a beast. It's a rather large "laptop" with a scrunched lc d display. Has two half height 5 1/4 floppies. From the keyboard it looks like a pc clone, but it also has a db25 terminal out port on the back. TIA George ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May13.173305.1767.41575; Wed, 13 May 1998 17:33:05 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id OAA09395; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:30:45 -0700 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id OAA57722 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:24:01 -0700 Received: from smtp.kurico.com (smtp.kurico.com [38.247.97.200]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id OAA00449 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:23:59 -0700 Received: from icurrie (unverified [209.36.177.59]) by smtp.kurico.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id <B0000139126(a)smtp.kurico.com>; Wed, 13 May 1998 16:59:56 -0500 Message-Id: <B0000139126(a)smtp.kurico.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:22:11 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "George Currie" <g(a)kurico.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 3 months

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HP85A Stuff

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Greg Troutman <mor(a)crl.com> wrote: > I spent a little more time on this guy and have finally gotten the tape > drive to work--sorta. The rubbery roller in the center to the left of > the head is seriously corroded away (as if some anti-rubber solvent or > high heat came in contact with it) which makes it not work too well. The rubbery bits used on these drives seem to be going gooey, at least out here in the San Francisco Bay Area. It's also happening to the similar drives used in HP264x terminals. (Gotta get around to fixing that one on my desk....) > Now, questions: I have a ROM Drawer filled with six option ROMS like > Assembler, Input/Output, Mass Storage, etc. First, how do I implement > the physical link to the I/O devices? You need an I/O card of the appropriate type to plug into another one of those slots on back. HP-IB is fairly common and is what you would use to hook up disk drives. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 3 months

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question - how to test DMA on peecees right way?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

If the floppy works, the DMA controller works. If you really want to exercise it, install a Sound Blaster. Kai -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca [mailto:jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca] Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 12:07 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: question - how to test DMA on peecees right way? Assuming I have basic stuff, working parts except for motherboard under test. How can I assure that chipset that contains DMA controllers is working as intended? software I have is very limited and only tests very basic functions like checkit, sysinfo etc. Remember I only have limited RAM (1mb) to play with. Thanks Jason D. email: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D.

28 years, 3 months

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Visual Computer Inc. Commuter US

by g＠kurico.com

Anyone heard of such a beast. It's a rather large "laptop" with a scrunched lcd display. Has two half height 5 1/4 floppies. From the keyboard it looks like a pc clone, but it also has a db25 terminal out port on the back. TIA George

28 years, 3 months

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More Kaypro problems

by homeline＠ezl.com

Hello, My my name is Cliff Boyer and I too have a Kaypro 10 problem. I think mine is in the power supply. I plug it in and turn it on and nothing happens. No lights, beeps, chirps, drives whirling. Nothing! I checked fuse on the back panel and it's OK. Is there a fuse on the P/S board located on the inside of the back panel? The machine was given to me, but I have no disks or manuals. However it is in excellent shape. I hope the hard drive is OK. If I cant get this machine going, I hope to get Anthony Clifton's QX-10 so I can see what a CP/M computer is like! Anyone have any thoughts? Cliff P.S. Hey Grant, If mine is not fixable, I may have a HD for you!

28 years, 3 months

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FW: VAX 6560 available at Rice University.

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Anyone interested, please contact Mr. Lin directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Wed, 13 May 1998 13:15:47 -0500, in comp.os.vms you wrote: >>From: Chihfang Lin <chihfang(a)pop.ruf.rice.edu> >>Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >>Subject: VAX 6560 for Sale >>Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:15:47 -0500 >>Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas >>Lines: 15 >>Message-ID: <3559E353.EC8AE818(a)pop.ruf.rice.edu> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: admsys-21.rice.edu >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) >>CC: chihfang(a)rice.edu, prscott(a)rice.edu >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.mv.net!newspump.wustl.edu!rice!not-for-mail >> >>Greetings: >> >>My department has put a surplus VAX 6560 / w SF200 for sale on Rice's >>Greetsheet. The individual bid period is from May 18 to noon of May 22. >>If you are interested, please check "http://dacnet.rice.edu/~gs/" or >>call me for details. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Chihfang Lin >>Sr. Systems Administrator >>Administrative Systems, Rice University >>(713) 285-5967 chihfang(a)rice.edu >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 3 months

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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Hmmmm....7th grade. I got my Atari 800xl in seventh grade. Not a single I built my own computer in 7th grade. Of corse, that was a PC... >computer in my school, and that was even in a rather large city >(Pasadena). We found a lot of other things to occupy us, though, like >finding creative ways to get over (and under) the 8 foot chain-link fence >around the school and over to taco bell or the Pac Man arcade. I spent all Early 80's? My art teacher says that lots of high school students were depressed.... >of my "home" time drinking Tang, programming my Ataris, and listening to >Black Sabbath. Funny thing is I got all A's and B's in my classes, with an Same here. >attendance ratio of about 2/3 and a homework ratio of about 1/4. Does that I wish I could do that!!!! I spend around 1/3-1/6 of my time working, the rest talking. I wish that I could do that little homework!!! Honestly, homework's the worst thing. If it were just "go to school, come home live your life" it would be so cool!!! >say anything about the quality of California's public education? I can >only imagine that it's even better now.... Yep. Now, the thing is that with my science fair project, none of the judges understood what I was talking about (Linux Vs. Windows), so a rather stupid project (bacteria growing in hot water) won. Anyone else have problems like this in Science Fair(s)??? It was way to technical, even though it was scaled down A LOT. I couldn't say what I wanted to say so that these people could still understand it... >Aaron Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

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HP85A Stuff

by mor＠crl.com

I spent a little more time on this guy and have finally gotten the tape drive to work--sorta. The rubbery roller in the center to the left of the head is seriously corroded away (as if some anti-rubber solvent or high heat came in contact with it) which makes it not work too well. Cleaning it up as best I could, and then doing multiple retries, getting frequent READ or SEARCH errors, have allowed me to store and retrieve some simple programs. I guess I'll be opening this up and trying to replace that. Now, questions: I have a ROM Drawer filled with six option ROMS like Assembler, Input/Output, Mass Storage, etc. First, how do I implement the physical link to the I/O devices? There are zero physical port connections on this box...(?) Second, how do I access the ROM code from the BASIC prompt? I'm sure there's a lot of tricky stuff involved, making the manuals indispensible, but since I don't have them, any quick tips would be appreciated. -- mor(a)crl.com http://www.crl.com/~mor/

28 years, 3 months

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Stuff to trade for PDP!

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2042 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980513/08d491c0/at…

28 years, 3 months

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Elementary school, how to learn. (language, reading, arithmetic) Yes, but computers are an important part of that. They need to know how to use them at an early age; even if it's not in school. >Intermeadiate school, how to find answers to questions and communicate >them. I say this goes to Elementary. In Jr. High, where I am now, most people are either lazy, "special-need" or both. On top of that, they've got SEVERE hormonal problems... it's important to know that you can't count on anyone to learn anything in perticular, except for stuff pertaining to... anyway, I think that here's a good time to give students a choice to know what they're going to do. I, for instance, want to specilize in Computers. Spending time learning "Pre-Algebra" (Just spent 2 class periods making a protractor accurate to 90' from a piece of paper.) isn't helpful, at least not that much, espcecially when I could cover the entire book in a week or two. (But my math teacher wants it "BIGGER, BETTER, NICER, NEATER." And I was done in 5 mins. out of 100!!!!) >High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed >to find paying work. I say that some students should be given the oppertunity to do this in Jr. High. Not everyone, but some people. After all, by this time, you know if you're not going to be a chemist, programmer, or anything. >Computers are a part of life and M$ stuff is unfortunatly reality we live >with every day. The unfortunate part is I meet kids at the grocer that >play doom, surf the net and can't count change. Ease of use. It happens. ;-) But seriously, the math program here doesn't EVER cover basic math, just expects you to learn it. Now, I was fortunate, and learned how to do that before moving here. >Allison -Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

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ASR33

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Tony Duell wrote: > I'm pretty sure the teletype is a passive device and expects the other > device to source the loop current. > > 5V should be enough for the transmitter loop (which is just switch > contacts), but I doubt if it would be enough for the receiver loop (more > like 12V or more here) I used a TTY ASR-33 as a printer for my PET years ago. My memory is that if I left the receiver open circuit, i yammered away printing nulls; if I shorted out the loop it didn't. I interfaced it using one transistor - no power supply was necessary. +---------------------- | OUT b |/c -------/\/\/\/---------| NPN TTY |\e PET | -------------------------+---------------------- GND Note: I never interfaced the TTY transmitter - not even for reading paper tape (don't know why not) Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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Grundy Newbrain Computer wont power up.

by Andy.Keeble＠Royal-London-ins.co.uk

> -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 7:15 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Grundy Newbrain Computer wont power up. > > > > > Can anyone help me bring an old British Computer back to life. > > > > Last night I bought a early 1980's Grundy Systems Newbrain "AD" > computer > > from an advert in the local newspaper. > > (See http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi/picts/newbrain.jpg) > > > > The machine is in good condition, with original manuals, cables, > psu, > > and even some software. > > > > Unfortunately it wont power up. > > I have the Newbrain schematics somewhere if that would be any help. > Unfortunately I don't have schematics for the PSU, but I think that's > a > pretty simple linear unit. [Keeble, Andy] I only had a quick look at it the previous night, but had a bit more in depth look last night. It does look like a PSU problem, and yes the PSU looks straghtforward enough. > > > > Turning on, the LED display flickers and goes blank (although the > manual > > Actually, it's a fluorescent anode display (see the other > thread...)... [Keeble, Andy] Indeed, I only saw a quick flash on power up, and presumed it was led. When I opened it up last night I got a better look. > > says it should do this, although I don't get a test pattern which I > > think I should) On the Television/video output I just get a white > > screen. > > > > Does anybody know if these machines suffered from any common faults? > > Check the PSU. The easiest way to do this is to check the 3 supply > lines > at the 4116 DRAM chips (+5V, +12V, -5V). If any are missing or > incorrect > then the machine won't power up. [Keeble, Andy] The PSU says something like +6v +12v and -13v. I found the +12v ok, but the other two outputs are showing +20v, so I guess its a voltage reg problem. (These are offload values). > Check the inter-board ribbon cables for broken wires (they're solid > core > and break easily). [Keeble, Andy] I will check that, but I suspect I may have already found the fault, due to the high readings from the psu, just hope it has damaged any chips in the machine? > Apart from that, if the PSU is OK, you're going to have to > troubleshoot > this one starting at the Z80 (what is it doing) and working through > the > logic. I don't know of any stock faults on these machines. [Keeble, Andy] I thought before spending hours, I would ask folks on the mailing list, just in case there were any common problems. I used to work in a computer shop in the early 80's and several makes of machines came in with the same fault. We didnt deal with Newbrain back then, so I didnt get any experience of them. If I get the PSU working, and find I need a schematic, would you be willing to scan a copy and email it, or photocopy and post it (I would pay any expenses). There seems to be little info about the Newbrain on the net, and I guess not that many still exist, so it seems a shame not to try and put some effort in trying to get this one working again. > -tony

28 years, 3 months

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Another strange z-80 / CP/M box...

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Ok, whilst on the subject of big old CP/M machines.. I've got an old Philips P3800 machine, in a grey cabinet about 1 metre deep, maybe 80cm high and 40cm wide. Tracking down any info on it has proved impossible so far; has anyone got one of these they could share information about, or know anything about them? It was damaged in a flood a few years ago, the switchmode PSU in it has failed and just gives a whining noise when power is applied - I seem to remember I tried loading the PSU without connecting it up to the system backplane or drives, so I think it really has failed rather than there being a short or anything within the system. The hard drive (I *think* it was a10MB Seagate full-height, sadly my entire collection is a couple of hundred miles away from me so I can't check!) controller board went with a bang when power was applied - can I simply swap in another board from an identical drive in the hope that this'll work, or are boards calibrated in some way to their respective motors? I tried this swapping with another identical drive and the drive span up ok, so maybe it would work... I don't know what state the data on the drive it in though. Other info needed: Tape drive - mine is missing, having been put in another machine years ago. Anyone know what sort it was, and will the system run without it? Cabling - what sort of terminal could be connected to the cables hanging out the back of the machine? Are they RS232 in which case a vt100 could be used? Was there the concept of a console, or would the machine silently boot? What was needed to boot the machine? Would it boot from hard drive, or was a floppy needed? (I have zero docs and disks for this thing sadly...) Phew! That'll do for now I guess! :*) cheers, Jules

28 years, 3 months

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Kaypro problems

by homeline＠ezl.com

> >3) The fuse is fine, but the PSU won't start up. This is suprisingly >common (I've had it twice in the last month). Most small SMPSUs run the >control circuitry off one of the transformer outputs, which leads to a >bootstrap problem (the PSU can't run without the control circuit, but the >control circuit can't work without the PSU running). The solution is a >small circuit to give the control circuit enough power to start. In a lot >of cases this takes the form of a high-value resistor chain from the HT+ >(400V DC) line to the chopper control circuitry. And for some reason this >resistor open-circuits. It's worth checking all high-value resistors on >the primary side. > >When you've inspected the fuse, get back to us and we'll attempt to talk >you through the PSU... > >-tony > > > Well, I checked the fuse on the P/S, and its OK. So what is the next step? Is this something I can take to a repair shop. I know of a TV & stero shop that has worked wonders on an old Pioneer amplifier of mine. A P/S should be of no problem for them. I would like to attemp to fix my self, but I just don't have that sort of time at the moment! Or can anybody recommend someone I can send it (the power supply only) to for repair? Cliff Boyer

28 years, 3 months

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question - how to test DMA on peecees right way?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Tony Duell wrote: >The first requirement is that you're mad. Now that you're foaming blue at the mouth, you could give the speech about how to use the keyboard interface chip to bring the 286 into real mode and back again... :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 3 months

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

When was this thing with "computer literacy in schools is everything" started? I like computers in schools, but I am tired of looking at proposed plans to replace 5 MORE classrooms with computer labs. Is this a classic thing? Would you in general say that computers have affected education (keeping the discussion OnT, of course). > >> snoball wrote: >> > >> > Hi, I am a teacher here at the local elementary school in Humble, TX. To be >> > honest, the computer department here at the school is rather pathetic, two >> > Apple //e's and an XT that was donated that I can't get to work. To be >> > frank, these kids are going into a world where they are illiterate in the >> > basic workings of a computer. I hate to sound desperate, but I have just >> > exausted all leads I know to take on the matter. I saw your ad and thought >> >> Don't panic. Here in New Jersey, the kids are all experts at >> Nintendo (and some of the brighter lights at hacking security), >> but damned few can actually read the manuals. Remember, the >> most important component of "computer literacy" is "literacy". >> If the kids can read, they can learn computers. If they can't, >> there's not much else worth teaching them except to pee on the >> side of the dumpster the cops aren't watching. (I may be a bit >> prejudiced on the side of reading over computers -- I only have >> fifty-odd computers, I've got [half bought new] several thousand >> books, mostly the science fiction I've loved since before the >> "New Math" was introduced to my grade school [after I'd had the >> benefit of learning the stuff that worked].) >> -- >> Ward Griffiths >> They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >> Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. >> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

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rt-11 programming

by CHUCK92124＠aol.com

i am looking for an RT-11 guru to modify some software for a PDP-11 system running RT-11 V4 year 2000 problem please call chuck@ 619-292-0911

28 years, 3 months

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list archives?

by g＠kurico.com

Hi, I just joined this list a couple of weeks ago and it is great. Lot's of great information. I have two quick list related questions. First, is this list being archived somewhere. Just in the two weeks I've been on, it's obvious that there is a huge amount of informational wealth being disseminated. And as any collector of older computers knows, information is the most essential element of collecting (that and software on the proper media). Second, does anyone know of any other lists that focus specifically on collecting? TIA George

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>At 10:20 5/13/98 -0500, Russ wrote: >>....I don't see >>anyone paying up to $15000 for a 1977 Apple computer of any model. > >I have personally watched three Apple Ones sell for, respectively, $12,000, >$15,500, and $22,000. The high one was at the Computer Bowl a couple of >years ago, the other two were private collectors, and none was ours (the >one at Fry's). > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > and there's a hint that one sold for $50K in the Apple docs online at http://www.grin.net/~cturley/USA2WUG/FOUNDING.MEMBERS/HOME.PAGES/STEVE.W/A1 /The%20Index.Page.html can anyone confirm this price?

28 years, 3 months

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Interesting c64 usage

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Last weekend I was at a garage sale where I spotted a c64 with an interesting job. It was connected to a mixing board to provide automation. That is, the c64 was used to control the functions of the mixer so as to be able to repeast a setup exactly. Pretty neat, and I wouldn't have minded getting it (I've been lusting after 8-bus multichannel mixer for years) but I couldn't justify the $1300 the guy wanted for it. 8^( Came with an interface box, btw, that had the software in it (presumably in ROM) for the automation. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 3 months

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Displays needed

by kyrrin＠jps.net

This is a long shot, but what the hey... I have a 10 or so year-old satellite clock that gets its time signals from the GOES birds. It works very well indeed, but some of the display elements are beginning to get dim. It uses seven-segment neon-discharge displays. The first group of three is the day of the year. The next three pairs are hours/mins/secs. The day of year and seconds are the ones that are going dim. Does anyone know of a source for replacement displays of this type? (Are these what Burroughs called 'Panaplex?') Also, Daniel Seagraves has discovered that his RSTS 10.1 tape is trashed. Does anyone else happen to have RSTS 10.x on 9-track that they'd be willing to loan long enough for me to do a bit-copy of it? Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 3 months

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OS/2 Warp 3 Help... (Yes, off topic...)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-13 09:10:41 EDT, you write: << OK... remember that Arthur J. Carp fellow... well, I got a copy of Warp 3... 3.5" disks. (It's been a while...) Anyway, this is semi-on topic, as OS/2's a pretty good story, and older versions are classic. So here's the deal. I can get all the way to Disk 6, then I re-insert the Install diskette. Then, it asks me to reboot. I reboot, and it's not there. I also have Windows 95 on this system. So how do I: Get past that 2) Get to see the drive's contents (it's not the same C as FAT 32 sees >> if youve got win95 on there, you'll need to setup boot manager. i have two machines in a triple boot setup; pcdos7-win3.1/win95/warp and win95/nt/warp message me privately if more details are needed. david

28 years, 3 months

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<controller identification. OEM'd WD100x's like those in the Kaypro and <Perkin-Elmer 7300/7350 Unix boxes do not have this feature (or <the debug program to use it). < <Bill <who owned a number of WD1001 and WD1002-HDO controllers. Err Bill, The kaypro had DDT (cpm debugger). ;) You are coorect in that the -HDO and SCSI version did not have the rom that the XT had to have to over come the limited bios in the machine that didn't know about the HD. Allison

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by adept＠mcs.com

I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the following: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13839197 I'll save the surprise for you who want to check it out (it's a Commodore Educator 64) Cheers, Dan

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 03:28 AM 5/13/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: > >On Tue, 12 May 1998, The Adept wrote: > >> I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the >> following: > >What's a Leinenkugel, and how much will you sell it to me for? Wisconsin beer, see <http://www.leinie.com/>. Good stuff for $5.20 a six-pack of bottles. Just to keep it on topic, it's not far from Cray Research in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. Cray's web site doesn't advertise a real tour but there's a virtual one. Leinie's has a real tour with free beer. And if you're touring, don't forget the pie at the Norske Nook in Osseo. >Is this the Commie holy grail or something? I've never seen an old >Commodore go for over $500 before. Perhaps Someone should make a web site with reports of classic system sale prices, in order to balance the tales of $500 PETs with $5 PETs. Like anything else, so many other factors must be considered: rarity, condition, history, etc. - John

28 years, 3 months

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Another EBay absurdity

by bill.sheehan＠stoneweb.com

"The value of a thing Is what that thing will bring." - Ancient Legal Maxim Seriously, note that the last two bidders have a zero experience rating, and the high bidder is from AOL. We won't know what the third bid was until after the auction, but he's the only bidder I'd take seriously. By the bye, I recently bought a DEC terminal from this seller, and found them to be both conscientious and professional. The Adept <adept(a)mcs.com> on 05/12/98 09:54:08 PM Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC) Subject: Another EBay absurdity I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the following: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13839197 I'll save the surprise for you who want to check it out (it's a Commodore Educator 64) Cheers, Dan

28 years, 3 months

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<c800:5) to make sure it contains a jmp instruction. Other locations <that I've seen include c800:6 and cc00:5. In an earlier mail the controller was moted as a WD1002HDO in a kaypro. That tells me mountains, one there is no ISA, NOT PC. The HDO is a host interface essentailly a gerneral interface like a PIO chip. Also the wd1002HDO has no boot or bios roms. The K10 is a z80 machine so c800:5 is not relevent as it's 16bit address. using VAX/VMS notation: $user1:> set device/flame_thrower/temp=plasma Most non-PC systems are _not_ PCs and applying PC part numbers, addresses methods, installation tools, device notation, buses, and dos operating system to the non PC results in confusion if not outright error. $user1:> set device/noflame Allison

28 years, 3 months

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strange z-80 / CP/M box

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Grant Zozman wrote: > Is the case white? > Is there a red power switch surrounded by black plastic at the lower > right corner on the front? > Do the drives close using levers which twist 90 > degrees? Is the keyboard also built into the case? > Does the screen blink off and on when the drives are being accessed? > Weighs as much as a pallette of bricks? > > If so, I believe you have a 5120 (or possibly a 5110). These were > produced around 1979-1980 just prior to the introduction of the PC. > They would run either BASIC or APL, and could be equipped with an > external disk drive module which was the size of a small filing > cabinet, rolled on casters, and housed two additional 8" drives. A > wide carriage dot matrix printer was also available. If I remember > correctly there are three connectors on the back of the case of the > computer in a triangular shape, with a threaded hole for a bolt in the > middle. This is where the printer & drive unit connected. > > You might want to look for a silver tag on the back of the machine; I > always thought IBM was pretty adament about putting a model number on > anything they produced, but I don't remember there being any tags on the > front of the machine I worked on years ago. > > Hope this helps! If you find out what you have, I would be > interested in knowing the final outcome; I have heard others refer to > a machine which fits this description as a "Datamaster", but have no > idea what would make it different from a 5110/5120. That mostly tallies with my memory of my Datamaster (which I haven't powered up in ages). Mine is a 5322, and calls itself System/23 I've never met the 5110 or 5120, I'm afraid. Word of warning: If you have a Datamaster and power it up without the printer it fails diagnostics. However, if you then press the Error Reset (or some such name) key, it goes on booting (into ROM BASIC) quite happily. But what's this in the subject line? IBM never made a Z80 CP/M box that I know of. The Datamaster had an 8085, but didn't run CPM AFAIK; the Displaywriter had an 8088 and ran CP/M86 as an option. (Displaywriter: Much more modern styling. Tilt and swivel screen, separate dual 8" disk unit, separate keyboard. Looked not unlike a PET 8032SK.) Philip.

28 years, 3 months

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HP terminal FS -one left

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Here's the last of the old and new terminal units I have - I have one remaining Hewlett Packard 700/44 with amber video. Has a current loop and rs-232 connector and comes with a like new keyboard. Works great, looks lke new. $15 plus shipping (22 lbs) or I may trade for a few odds-n-ends that equate to the cost. Of course the buyer pays the shipping unless a trade is worked out at an equivelant rate. Thanks to everyone for allowing me to put these up which also kept them out of the landfill. Many people out my way would have no idea what they are and they'd become dumpster filler if I hadn't found homes for items such asd the VT 100 and 131. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 3 months

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Teaching Students Computers... (Semi-OT)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. This is semi-off topic, but I'm sure that if any replies are made, it'll eventually spin off to someone's tales of their PDP-8 in high school, or their first VIC-20... Anyway, as much as I can complain that I'm not getting a decent computer-education in school, I owe a lot to them. My first year here in Bahrain, I had just got my computer (a blasing fast 486 33!!!), running (what else) Windows 3.1 and DOS 6.22. I didn't know how to type, just use basic functions. I could get on CompuServe (at least in the US), etc. but not do anything "powerfull" I could launch CD-ROMS, install programs since I was 8, in 3rd grade. Then, in school that year, I learned to type. A significant 40WAM. (I thought this was miserrable, but now in typing, many 7th graders got like 19's, 25's...) Anyway, that gave me my basic computer skills. Now, in 6th grade, when I next did serious typing (4th grade was a mess, I skipped 5th grade), I found that my typing increased to 80WAM. (WPM??) Now, I find it's at 100-140. I owe all that to the school. Without learning how to type, I would never have gotten interested in e-mail, programming, computer science, CAD, grapics, number crunching, UN*X, or hardware stuff. Then, earlier on this year, I was asked to help make a computer couse for my grade at school. For the first couple weeks we wouldn't have a computer lab. So I did what I thought would work: Talked about the workings of a computer. Terms like OS, HDD, RAM, CPU, bus, HTML, web, modem, etc. Since then, I've been working to set up a browser-based Intranet. It's been a heck of a lot of fun, if not educatonal. Just my $0.02... Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 3 months

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Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems

by Marty＠itgonline.com

If all else fails you may want to try a low level format on the hard drive. Boot with a MS-Dos ver 2.10 or later, run debug. At the '_' prompt type in g=c800:5 which should access the controller rom and enable you to low level format (it is <crudely> menu driven). Your Tandon has 306 cylinders, 4 heads and 17 sectors per track. After the low level format procede with the high level partitioning and formatting. -Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/11/98 9:27 PM I recently added a Kaypro 10 to my collection, but it seems to have met with some rough handling in shipping. If anyone can shed some light on the problem described below, I would REALLY appreciate it (any Kaypro experts out there?) When I first fired it up, it booted from the hard drive right away. However, as soon as I tried to access the HD further, all I got were "Bad Sector" errors. Since then, the computer will no longer boot from the HD, and I can't access any information on it ( not a good sign :-( ). Using CP/M, I have tried to re-format the drive with no luck; all I get are "Verify Errors" as it tries to format. So much for the theory that the heads may have gotten knocked slightly out of alignment! Re-seating all connectors on the drive and controller didn't help either. I have pulled the drive from the computer and hooked it up outside the case. It does spin up to normal operating speed, and I can see the head stepper motor responding in a normal fashion when I attempt to access the drive (formatting, parking the heads, pulling a directory, etc.). None of the linkage to the heads seems damaged or broken; in fact the entire computer is in excellent shape and has not been abused. The hard drive activity light (which is controlled from the drive itself) also seems to respond normally. No untoward noises seem to come from the unit when it is operating, although I do hear some metallic "singing" during the last second or so just prior to the drive coming to a complete stop on power down. I'm not sure if this is just the brake mechanism, or if it is the heads against the platters (I do park the drive prior to powering off, though). Based on the above, I am assuming (wrongly so?) that the controller is probably working OK. It is a Western Digital WD1002-HDO. My hunch is that either the drive electronics or the drive itself have failed. Are there any other tests I should by trying? Am I correct to assume that it is the drive which has failed? The drive is a Tandon TM502 (10MB, MFM, 5 1/4" platters). If the drive cannot be salvaged, I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has a replacement drive, or knows of a source for same. I would like to keep the same make and model drive if possible, but an equivalent model would be fine too (as I'm sure Non Linear Systems used more than one make of drive in the Kaypro's). Any help is much appreciated! Grant Zozman gzozman(a)escape.ca ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May11.212743.1767.41196; Mon, 11 May 1998 21:27:44 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id SAA14261; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:22:23 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id SAA46526 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:22:15 -0700 Received: from wpg-01.escape.ca (root(a)wpg-01.escape.ca [198.163.232.254]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id SAA09739 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:22:13 -0700 Received: from escape.ca (ts2dl081.escape.ca [198.163.234.81]) by wpg-01.escape.ca (8.8.7/8.7.5) with ESMTP id UAA21249 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 11 May 1998 20:22:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3557A4D5.E8EC2CE3(a)escape.ca> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:24:38 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Grant Zozman <gzozman(a)escape.ca> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Help Needed: Kaypro 10 HDD Problems References: <199805112323.TAA12647(a)mail.cgocable.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 3 months

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Hello - I'm a new reader

by dpeschel＠u.washington.edu

... and I wanted to introduce myself. I'm a student at the University of Washington; I subscribed to the list in hopes that there would be some local members. So far, I'm not sure. Some of your names are familiar from alt.folklore.computers but many are new. I'm a computer-science major. Most CS majors here don't seem to be very interested in old machines, unfortunately. They must be dazzled by all the Windows NT machines we have (which were given to us by Intel and don't work very well, thanks to overstressed/inept/inconstant administration). I'll probably read more than I post -- I don't have detailed experience with the popular machines, because I don't _have_ the popular machines, because I live in a dorm room. But I do have experience with the Apple ][, and a Kaypro which I'm resurrecting (thanks to Don Maslin and his awe-inspiring collection of CP/M disks) and some HP calculators and some emulators on my Macintosh. By "popular" I mean "popular with the readers of this list," not "popular with people in general." So... who's from Washington? And BTW, is there a working Web site/archive/FAQ for this group? I can't seem to connect to the bothell machine, even though it's part of my own school. Thanks, -- Derek

28 years, 3 months

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Amiga 600HD questions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Would you allow CP/M? BOCHS Unix emulator? Macintosh? I will say only one thing: don't try to go back - it will never be the same, and you will only be disappointed (yes, I know you're only kidding). I don't really use USENET because it's a pain... > >Hell, I was on the Usenet when it was just a partial feed from a >friend at Cal Tech to my little TRS-80 Model 16 two miles away >with its 15-Meg HD that could handle a month's worth of my partial >feed at a time (a full feed would have choked it in less than a >week -- if I could handle the bandwidth) at 1200 baud back in the >stone age (1986-7), when bang-path email could take a week or more >to turn around. Usenet was a bit surreal in those days of >_severely_ asynchronous communication (not the modems, just the >messages crossing paths). I loved it, and if the over-advertised >Internet keeps screwing up, 56Kbps modems (and 10-321 or whatever >the latest long distance cheap service is) would let us build a >better new Usenet than there used to be. And anybody who gave >the phone numbers to AOL, Hotmail, any such scum, or ever allowed >a binary file that wasn't uuencoded (and useful -- no hundred-part >fuzzy porn need apply) to go through would be flogged from all of >the L.sys or Systems files forever. Oh yeah, this would of course >be *nix based (Unix, Linux, Sunos, etc.) as the gods meant it to >be -- PCs are welcome only as terminal emulators if they're >hosting parasites such as Windows or MS-DOS. >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
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Amiga 600HD questions

by K.J.Whitehead＠massey.ac.nz

I have been given an Amiga 600HD. It seems to work but wont boot. Investigation showed that althought there was a harddrive there was no power going to it. Does the machine use standard IDE drives, if so where did it poer up from, there is no power socket adjacent to the IDE socket on the board. I suppose that a Y cable connected to the supply going to the floppy would work. Cheers Keith Whitehead +----------- Keith Whitehead -----------+ | Physics and Chemistry Depts | | Massey University | | Palmerston North | | New Zealand | | | | Ph +64 6 350-5074 Fax +64 6 354-0207 | +------------------------------------------+

28 years, 3 months

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Well, if someone will send me the 486's, I'll build and test 'em...that's my main business. -- I'm very low on everything, though, so I need your components. manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire."

28 years, 3 months

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iMac update

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I'm sorry that this is OT, but I thought everyone should know that Apple has announced that upcoming laptops will NOT support SCSI or floppy drives (according to MSNBC). It's nice to know that now that Steve Jobs is back, Apple's gotten back to innovationg and changing stuff. I doubt the market cares, however. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 3 months

1
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FS: Panasonic JR-200U

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Anyone interested in one? Excellent condition (still with packaging) and manuals. manney(a)lrbcg.com "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire."

28 years, 3 months

1
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strange z-80 / CP/M box

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hmmm. Never heard of that but I don't think that's what he has. I had the impression that his drives are part of the main unit. Dammed shame your drives were scrapped out. I'd love to have one for my 5100. Joe At 08:49 PM 5/12/98 -0400, you wrote: >> It's not a 5100! They only had a single tape drive. > >No, IBM did have MASSIVE 8 inch drives for the 5100 (5108?). My system had >two of the small file cabinet sized things, but they were scrapped out. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > >

28 years, 3 months

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strange z-80 / CP/M box

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 02:22 PM 5/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I think we also acquired an IBM 5100. >This animal was without docs, but it boots to basic and has >a small mono screen and twin 8 inch drives. All the logic is >in one housing with the screen. I know someone was asking >around about such a computer recently. It's not a 5100! They only had a single tape drive. Joe

28 years, 3 months

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Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

> Are there any students besides Derek on the list? Oh, what the heck. I'm a third-year Russian major at Grinnell College. And, just to keep this minimally on-topic, I have a minor Kaypro problem. My Kaypro 4 had one of its original floppy drives replaced with a half-height drive before I got it, leaving a gaping hole in the front. I wasn't thrilled about this even when the drive worked, but it's stopped working, so I want to get rid of it. Anybody have a source for full-height double-sided 5-1/4" floppy drives? Thanks, -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats

28 years, 3 months

5
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Commodore 128 cabling

by red＠bears.org

Hi. I picked up a C=128 with a pair of 1571 drives and a 1902 monitor at a thrift shop the other day. I'm a bit of a Commodore gumby---I only ever knew one guy who had one, and it was a C=64. I couldn't find any of the cables when I bought it. I actually did go back this morning and found a few of them, so I have a few questions. The 1902 monitor has 5- and 8-pin DIN connectors. The C=128 has 5- and 8-pin DIN connectors for video, along with a DE9f for 'RGBI'. The video cable I found has a 5-pin connection labelled 'Computer' and an 8-pin connection labelled 'Monitor'. This sounds pretty straightforward. So my question is, which jacks are used for what? Will I not be able to use 80 column mode with this cable? Should I wire a straight-through DIN-8 cable and use that instead of the one I have? What do I gain by using the RGBI connector? Would one of the Tandy RGB monitors work with it? The thrift has one, either a CM-3 or CM-5. I forget which. Also, I was unable to locate the power supply. I notice it has the same connection as my A500 supply, except the switch is on the CPU instead of the PS. Could I use the A500 supply on the C=128 until I can dig up a C=128 (or even C=64?) supply? ok r. PS; I'm still trying to find info on that TI-99/4A video cable. (:

28 years, 3 months

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Fun at lunch

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

My wife informed me today that she couldn't join me for lunch so I decided to take the time and spend it visiting a couple of thrifts here. Glad I did. I picked up a Commodore C64 (in the shorten C128 style case, sans power supply) just for the heck of it, it was only $0.80 along with a C2N Cassette drive and 2 Kraft KC3 PC/Apple 2 joysticks. Those are nice ones. But what really caught my eye was a small box in the back of the top shelf. It was a Radio Shack MC-10 Micro Color Computer, missing the power supply of course. I brought it back to the office and asked our sysadmin if he could load Office 98 on my new portable for me. He didn't know what to say. :-) Anyone have anything for the MC-10? Doc, software, etc. The other big find, to me anyway, was a book for $0.50, INTRODUCTION TO DEC SYSTEM-10: TIME-SHARING AND BATCH. This book is great! Now I just need a system to play with. More books and computers, that'll teach my wife to skip out on lunch. :-) ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

28 years, 3 months

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